Talking to Triggers: Healing from Trauma with Angie Baughman

Have you ever noticed certain situations or interactions that seem to trigger an intense emotional response? This powerful episode features a candid conversation with our guest, Angie Baughman, who bravely shares her journey of addressing childhood trauma and abuse in order to heal and grow. Angie's insights on recognizing and talking to our triggers provide invaluable wisdom for nurturing our relationships and fostering emotional intimacy with our partners.

Together, we explore Angie's process of identifying her triggers, including developing mindfulness of her body's response when anxiety rises and realizing when she is on autopilot in her reactions. We discuss the various ways triggers can manifest, such as perfectionism or a need for control, and outline steps for overcoming anxiety and cultivating healthier responses to our triggers. Angie also shares her experience of relying on her faith and God's promises to help her navigate difficult emotions and situations.

Throughout this inspiring episode, we delve into resources like Angie's 5-step process to talk to your triggers. Angie has graciously provided her handout "Talk to Your Triggers Scripture Resource."  Angie's willingness to share her story and journey encourages us all to face our underlying issues and work towards healing in our marriages. Listen in and be motivated to recognize your triggers, honor them, and foster a stronger connection with your spouse.

You can find Angie at Live Steady On.  Many resources, including links to Angie's podcast, free resources, and her masterclass for the Steady On Step-by-step Bible study method can be found here.

INTRO/OUTRO MUSIC CREDITS
Theme music: Dead Winter
ASLC-1BEF9A9E-9E9D609662
Artists: White Bones
Composers: White Bones
Audio source: Epidemic Sound

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. If you're struggling in your marriage, or maybe you're wondering if it's even salvageable, before you give up or before you let things get too hard, let us come alongside you and help you solidify your marriage. We offer biblical encouragement and insight to help you strengthen your marriage. Welcome to the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. We're Doug and Leslie Davis. This month we have been looking at trauma and how to be a trauma-informed spouse, so that both the spouses who've been through the trauma and the assisting spouse are able to pursue God's plan for their marriage in a way that helps them navigate post-traumatic events in a better way. We've been talking a lot about triggers, and today we have a very special guest with us.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Angie Bauman is joining us today and I'm so excited that she is here. Angie is a lover of Jesus and Jesus has brought her through some pretty tough circumstances. She serves the study on community with Bible studies and encouragement that is rich and deep and purposeful and poignant. She's an author and encourager and she's a very dear friend. She is here today to share with us God's power and provision as we learn to talk to our triggers. Welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:28

Angie, i am so grateful to be here. Thank you, i love your podcast. I love what you're doing. This is an honor.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Thank you. So tell us a little bit about talking to our triggers.

Speaker 3: 1:43

Well, i'll start with a story that's not very flattering. How's that? It was, christmas break had started, all right, and I was already sort of maybe running on empty just a little bit. My boys were younger still, in elementary school. I have two boys, they're about five and a half years apart And we'd come home from classroom parties.

Speaker 3: 2:03

I had been in and out of classroom parties and my van I have this mini van and it felt like it was like stuffed to the gills with all the stuff that I had brought home from school, right, and I was already kind of like overwhelmed. The boys were over sugared, they were. They had come into the house, you know, dropping coats and bags, and it was already getting to be a mess and they were wrestling on the floor And I was going in and out of the house emptying my van And I'm putting stuff on the dining room table, you know. So get this bag, put it on the dining room table, get this I don't know what is even in this chocolate And I, you know, here's the platter that I took with the cookies on it, and all this stuff back and forth into the house. The boys were wrestling and loud And in my mind I was saying to myself the things that I now know is the voice of the enemy and the lies that he, you know that he tells us.

Speaker 3: 2:50

But I was just saying to myself no one appreciates me. No one knows how hard it is to pull off a thing like Christmas. No one but me is going to do all the cooking, the cleaning, the wrapping, the finishing up of the shopping, the hospitality, all of that. No one cares about how tired I am, no one helps. You know, just just kind of that barrage. And the more that I went back and forth into the house I didn't know I was doing this at the time, let me tell you but the more that I was going back and forth into the house, the the matter I got and the more defeated I felt. I felt rejected, isolated, alone, discouraged, just heavy feelings.

Speaker 3: 3:27

So true, don't think. Yes, it is just so heavy, right, yeah? And then it happens The boys, as they were wrestling, my older son had brand new glasses and they fell off his face and one of them rolled on them and they broke in two. They like bent in two.

Speaker 3: 3:47

And in that place, with the dining room table, like covered with all the stuff from my van, and the boys and the things that were going in my head, i screamed at my kids. I'm just screamed at them, said the things that I'd been saying in my head to them. You don't appreciate me, you make my life harder. Now you've done this, i can't fix it. You know all those things And I will never forget the way that they looked at me with those like really like slightly scared, you know eyes of recognizing that I was really out of control And I just like stopped.

Speaker 3: 4:22

I mean, they were just, they were just sobbed to everything, stop. And I went upstairs and I remember I just sat down in our we have this like small walk-in closet and I just sat down in the floor and sobbed and I said something has to change, because this is while that that situation was more extreme than the norm, i did recognize that it was an extreme example of something that was happening really regularly, that I my behavior, especially with my kids, who are so easy to push on our stuff right. Somehow the Lord has given us children that push on our stuff because it invites healing, but it also just invites this like emotional response. And so that was really the beginning of me saying I need to figure out what's underneath this, and the Lord, over the past, oh, 13, 14 years, has taken me on a journey of what I would just call deep and deeper healing childhood trauma and abuse.

Speaker 3: 5:16

I had no idea at that point in my parody that what happened to me as a young person, as a teenager, was affecting my Christmas break decision to yell at Mike. You know, i just I didn't. I wasn't able to make that connection, but the Lord, in his wisdom and kindness and patience and the right timing and all that stuff, began to open my heart to um, i know you don't want to do it this way And I don't want you to do it this way And I'd like to help you.

Speaker 2: 5:43

Yeah, and I think I think that's so important, to be able to understand that the things that we we go through as a child affects who we become and how we act and react to the situations that you know that we're in as adults. And, um, i think it's interesting both. You know both the good and the bad, both the positive and the negative things.

Speaker 3: 6:07

Yeah, I didn't want it to be about that you know, because at this point in my life I was probably I'm going to say I was like mid thirties. the abuse that's in my background happened when I was a teenager and I just had decided that was a long time ago. I don't need to worry about that anymore, and I think a lot of us do that. We stuff the things and we don't realize that the stuffing comes at a high, high cost for our relationship with God. Our people are, you know, and ourselves.

Speaker 2: 6:33

So I know one of the things that we had talked about in an earlier podcast this month was how to recognize a trigger, and kind of what I heard you describe in your story was that the emotional reaction to the broken glasses was like really bigger than what that situation actually actually accounted for.

Speaker 3: 6:56

Yeah, yeah, cause my kiddos need to be careful, right Like the glasses are expensive, they need to be careful and they need to be sorry when they, you know, done something because they weren't careful. However, they did not need me screaming at them, you know, sweeping statements about their inconsideration and the inconvenience I'm saying it mildly that it caused me, right Yeah?

Speaker 2: 7:18

They had just been carrying stuff in from the van. That wouldn't happen, right Yeah? So over time I began to, i guess put this sort of like process together.

Speaker 3: 7:31

I didn't recognize it as a process at the time And I certainly, like in my own mind, didn't go through. I have these, i have five steps and they all start with R, and that wasn't like clean, like that, when I was sobbing on my you know closet floor.

Speaker 1: 7:44

But over time I've been able to see the steps. Yeah, so that's what I'm going to.

Speaker 3: 7:48

Yeah, yeah So step one is called recognize. You just said that word right there, and the scripture that I use that goes with that. All the steps have a scripture is from 1 Peter, 5, 7 and 8 in the NIV. It says cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. Be alert and have sober mind. Your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a roaring line looking for someone to devour. And so step one, as I say, recognize.

Speaker 3: 8:10

For me it's when anxiety rises. What does my body do Like? what's good? What is happening? What is the way that anxiety looks like in my life? I think it looks a little bit different for people, but for me, as I was walking back and forth that day from the van to the house, like my mind was racing, my thoughts were faster than I was like in control of them, if you will. I wasn't holding them captive by any stretch of the imagination. My breathing was a little bit labored or quick, my steps were quick, my motions were quick. This is something that I do, you know, in my personality, when anxiety is, you know, rising up in me. And so I think one of the first things we can do is what does it feel like when I'm struggling with anxiety or when I'm getting anxious about something.

Speaker 2: 8:59

Yeah, i think that's a really good, you know really good first step is to recognize when you're triggered, like what you do and how it plays out, because you know I've often talked about being on autopilot and how that is a lot of times damaging. Because you know it's like what you were saying, like you were on autopilot, there was no control going in and out of that, you know. But when we're, when we have an awareness that we're on autopilot, we can shut that autopilot off.

Speaker 1: 9:30

During that moment, we're reacting, and so what you're talking about is a wonderful thing, where we get to reason through it, and so how would you be able to recognize when your body's reacting in anxiety, or when you're triggered? What are the things that you do, either after an event or preemptively before an event, to help you realize what you're doing, what you need to be recognizing?

Speaker 3: 9:57

I, you know, for me, i think part of it depends on your personality, but I've learned some things about myself. I hope this answers your question. I think this is where you're going. But, like for me, when I feel like I'm out of control or when something is triggering me, i want to control things And so I move towards perfectionism. I move towards, like, putting commitments on my calendar. I can't control what's out there, but I'll control what's on my calendar. I think sometimes for people it's food, like you know what are the things? how do, how are we manifesting control in areas because we feel out of control in other areas. And I think sometimes in the church we it's like talked down about, like knowing yourself or taking care of yourself or healing your like. there's some things like that. But for me, the Lord has said one of the most thing, the most important things you can do for your people, for your relationships, is to be able to recognize what's going on in you.

Speaker 3: 10:49

And it's not selfish, it's not self centered, it's actually very kind, because that's that's when I can say wait a second, i need a timeout. I need to pause right here, because what's going on in here isn't really appropriate response to what's going on out there.

Speaker 2: 11:04

Right, okay, so what is step two? The first step was to recognize Yeah, so step-.

Speaker 3: 11:10

Recognize when we're triggered. Yeah, so step two is reveal, and I think this is a hard part, but it's the question is what am I believing on the inside about what's happening on the outside? Yeah, John 1.5 says the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. So when I was walking back and forth from the house, what I was really believing is I'm not significant, i'm not valued, i'm not important, i'm not. You know, i mean a variety of other things maybe too, but that was really the thing, right, that no one is paying attention to me, nobody cares for me. I can't fix this, i can't make this right, And that stems from rejection and the trauma in my background. And I'll just say quickly I was abused by a teacher in the high school I was attending.

Speaker 3: 11:56

He was quite a bit older than me, he was a predator. He had a special student, you know, every year at least. But the community continued to sort of buffer him, protect him. And when our relationship, which lasted about nine months, was made public And it was made very public, it was in the papers, on the news, like it was in a very public situation. The community rallied around him and supported him and did not believe me and discredited me, and I felt a very deep sense of rejection and isolation and I have no voice and I can't fix this and some of those things. It wasn't the first time in my life that I had experienced that.

Speaker 3: 12:37

I had some repetitive trauma when I was younger, but that sort of like is this culminating. Like you, your voice isn't worthy And the enemy, over and over again, the lie he tells to me, is remember, angie, you'll never belong anywhere. And so, as I was going back and forth in the house, you know, can we say when the anxiety starts to rise and we're feeling that pressure, what actually am I telling myself right now? What actually am I believing? And it really doesn't have anything to do with Christmas or the clutter in the house or the broken glasses. It actually has to do with the fact that I don't feel valued here, and that's not what everybody feels. I'm just like how can we get to the core of that?

Speaker 2: 13:20

Yeah, because Satan will come in and work on, work with your past, trauma and the things that you know you may be doubt where the Lord is at at that time and, just you know, infiltrate right there. I know my growing up, i grew up believing I was stupid. You know just that there was no, there was no way I could be smart or intelligent or I have good grades or whatever, and and I tell you that there was a lot of overcoming there to do that. So the enemy just infiltrates those places, yeah, don't they? So step three we need to do what Step three is remember.

Speaker 3: 13:56

And the question that I asked myself is where have I experienced God's faithfulness in previous circumstances? Psalm 145, 13 says the Lord is trustworthy in all he promises and faithful in all he does. So as I think about the fact that I like, in whatever situation, i feel disposable, right, i feel like I have no voice. I feel like people misunderstand me, whatever you know those things that come up sometimes, and I feel that heavy weight of shame threatening to wash over me.

Speaker 3: 14:26

What is true about God? Where are other places when I felt this way that he has shown up and said No, no, no, that's not my voice that you're listening to right now. Where are the times that I've had deep connection with him? Where are the other times when I have felt that way? But now I know he was there and I can see his presence. What are the things that I can praise him for? What are the things that I can rejoice in him over? So it's really for me I think I'm not, i don't have the like, the medical language or anything, but it's a. We have these like pathways in our brain, right, and so it's really about saying, ok, your brain is starting to go on that pathway, but by praising God and finding ways to rejoice in him and think and remembering those spiritual markers from earlier in my life when he showed up, i can take that, that thought, that's wanting to go this direction, and I can say No, no, no, we're going to go this direction.

Speaker 1: 15:14

So step three is remember and see as a grounding exercise. that's the very best thing that anybody can do. I know grounding exercises are really really being spoken a lot about right now because during the time where you're reacting instead of reasoning, you need to find something that'll help you start thinking through. You just gave us the best way we can do that just to go to God's word and to remember God's faithfulness as we look at his promises, and so we appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Yeah, blessed is the man who takes refuge in the Lord. Amen, amen, amen.

Speaker 3: 15:45

Amen, and I think you know for me it's been that part has been a growing process as I've built that toolbox right.

Speaker 3: 15:53

Because, that toolbox comes from. I have a playlist of songs on my phone that are go to is when I'm struggling. I have verses of scripture that I have buried in my heart and I can go to and I can say This is the promise, This is the promise. This is the promise. And I'll just confess, I don't feel you right now. I'm not, I'm not walking in that confidence right now, but I can't. I will. I choose to put my feet on this path. I believe in you. I walk by faith, not by sight. You know, and as we get closer to him, how are we building that toolbox so that when we need that memory, it's there for us?

Speaker 3: 16:26

Oh, absolutely, we got to make a plan when we don't need it. That way, when we need it, the plan is there.

Speaker 2: 16:31

Yes, yes, yes, and I think so often they're again. when people are on autopilot, they just don't there's no plan, they're just on autopilot, like they're just going through life. And that's a really hard place to be when you're dealing with the negative thoughts and the triggers and the past abuse that you don't realize is affecting you.

Speaker 3: 16:52

We don't have to just react Like we feel like we're a victim or a slave or something like just we just react. You know we don't have to just react, but we will just react if we don't have another. Yes, if we don't have another option, if we haven't created, developed for ourselves another option. For me there's so much intentionality around this, and that's one of the things the Lord has revealed to me is like you can do this, we can do this together, but it's not just going to happen, right.

Speaker 1: 17:21

And the remembering is coming from a reservoir that you've built up, which is something that I hope our listeners are able to relate to as well, because as you store up all of those reasons that you have to praise God, then you've got that reservoir during the time when you are struggling and reacting. If you build up a reservoir of God's promises through His word and hide His word in your heart that you might not sin against Him, then you have that reservoir on hand when you need it, And so that's such good, good advice.

Speaker 3: 17:51

You know I was just saying. One of the things that always helps me especially like if maybe someone that's listening would be early in this process is just remembering how far I've come, because one of the most defeating things is you're still broken. Why are you still broken? Why is this still so hard? Why did you do this wrong today?

Speaker 3: 18:07

And if I just can tap into how much healing He has brought into my heart and where I'm not anymore, that's just a really good place to start that remembering, because His kindness and the way that He's loved me through this healing process is something I can always praise Him for.

Speaker 2: 18:25

Absolutely So. step four is receive. Tell us about that.

Speaker 3: 18:31

The question is how is God revealing His presence in this experience? John 14.27 says Peace I leave with you. My peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Speaker 2: 18:44

So it's kind of like taking all of this remembrance that we just did in step three and applying it to our current situation now.

Speaker 3: 18:52

Yes, yes, jesus promises rest and joy and hope in abundance. I want to give you abundant life, right, and we. It's there for us to claim. I think so often about Luke 15 and the young son that squanders his inheritance right, but the older son is squandering his inheritance too, yes. And the father says everything I have is yours. When he's complaining I don't have this, i don't have this, and I think we do that. I don't have peace, i don't have joy, i don't have rest And all that, and the father is saying lovingly to us everything I have is yours, in abundance, it is yours, and so will we posture ourselves to receive it.

Speaker 3: 19:27

When we're triggered, when we're struggling, when I feel like nobody sees me, when I feel like I'm rejected, when I'm remembering what it felt like to be called, some of the things that I was called, when that's what's prevalent, he is saying my peace is yours. Will you stop those voices? Will you remember my faithfulness And will you allow me to fill you with something different, or my love? are you going to sit here and wallow in those negative feelings and not move forward with them? So it's really the crucial part like will we receive?

Speaker 1: 19:59

Oh, and I love that, because during the times when we're triggered, so often it feels like a chaotic storm around us. Yes, And our prayers can so often be. Lord, take the storm away.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Yes.

Speaker 1: 20:11

How many times instead does he say take my hand and I'll walk you through to safety? Yes, we'd rather see the storm go away when God says grab on to me and I'll get you where you need to be.

Speaker 3: 20:22

Yeah for sure. And step five. So step five is repeat. And the question is how do I offer myself grace with this process? If anybody listening is like me, i feel like I know this, so I should do it now Check, move on right, and it doesn't work like that. I've been through hard things, as you've said. Probably you've been through hard things. Those listening have been through hard things and they're going to come up sometimes and they're going to come up in ways we didn't expect. The enemy is really good at playing the same song in a different key and it comes from nowhere. And so how do we offer ourselves grace?

Speaker 3: 21:00

Lamentations 3223 says because of the Lord's great love, we are not consumed, for his compassion's never fail. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness, and I like to take a little liberty. It says they are new every morning, but I say they're new every moment when we need them to be. And so you know, some of it's sort of like a wash rinse repeat with this, because we will. We will do the same thing. You know we will find ourselves in the same or very similar position sometimes And will we give grace for ourselves and we'll go back to our people and say I'm sorry, and my kids sometimes will laugh now because they've been through this journey of healing with me, and they laugh and shake their head and say that's mom's trauma brain And it's funny not funny like it's not, but it is.

Speaker 3: 21:47

And I'm so glad that we have that openness and that language where sometimes I can just say I'm sorry, or I'll be able to say, especially to my younger son, because he and I, you know, are more alike, i think, and he's the one that can push on my stuff fastest And he just wants, he finds it. He just jumps up and down on it sometimes And I'll be like I have to, i have to slow down this conversation, i have to take a pause. Like in a couple of minutes I'm going to yell at you and I don't want to yell at you, so you need to give me some space. I'll get back. You know, whatever we try to have open language around that because because I, i, i can't wait till I'm better to parent them, and so I have to parent them today the best I can be.

Speaker 2: 22:25

Mm, hmm, i know that's, that's how it goes, right, we don't stop being a parent or a spouse or, you know, any of our relationships. We don't. we don't get to stop them when, when we're dealing with with these types of things. So tell us, tell us a little bit about Matt. You and Matt have been married for 25 years.

Speaker 3: 22:45

It'll be 25 years in August, my lord. I don't know how that happened, because I'm only 27.

Speaker 2: 22:51

That's it. I know right, i was 27 years myself, yeah. No, yeah, we've been married 25 years And you know, Matt, have have navigated some of this trauma in your relationship, this past trauma, into your relationship too. So how has talking to your triggers, you know? how has Matt come alongside of you and been the trauma informed spouse for you?

Speaker 3: 23:15

Reluctantly, i think, uh, unaware that that was his role. We didn't know, you know, and you don't know what you don't know. And when you learn things, you, you know, you do better. And so I think a lot of it and I go back to what I was saying about knowing ourselves as as trauma survivors, abuse survivors, whatever you know form our trauma takes. It's so important to know what our reactions are and to be able to have language around.

Speaker 3: 23:44

One of the things that I do right now with some frequency is when I get upset or triggered and I tend to be a yeller when I'm triggered is I will look at Matt, even when I'm angry or kind of a little bit out of control, and I'll say I'm not angry at you, like, and I, just I, and sometimes I'll say it like, but I'm not angry at you, i'm not angry at you, you know. And he says to me thank you. And that breaks my heart because it reminds me of the years that I was directing my frustration at him. I blamed him, i, i blamed him because he couldn't fix it And he did take that on and that was really painful for him.

Speaker 3: 24:23

And so now it's so funny because he'll just say thank you And he knows I'm not mad at him, but he doesn't say I know he says thank you And I think it's a recognition of, like, the growth you know that we've, that we've done in that relationship. Or I'm able to just say I, i know this isn't about this, whatever, like I know my reaction, i know it's beyond what it needs to be, i just, and he'll say you just feel it, it's okay, like you know, and so I think there's a patience and a respect. We have this little thing we do. If I can tell a story real quick, can I share?

Speaker 1: 24:58

a quick story.

Speaker 3: 25:00

So the abuse that happened to me in high school was it was my band director that abused me And I was a big part of like our band was really like exciting And we had a like a big pep band and the basketball games were always exciting and all of this stuff And that was just. It was an important part of our high school experience And, as it is for a lot of people and our older son played high school ball all four years that he was in high school And especially when he got to be like junior and senior year, especially when he was playing more And I don't know, there was just like more intensity with the games and all that because they were the last and all that And his high school was really big also. And how how is it that 20 some years later, they're still playing the same songs?

Speaker 1: 25:44

Does anybody?

Speaker 3: 25:44

know, why, Why are we still playing the same songs?

Speaker 3: 25:49

But here too basketball games got to be something that was really hard for me because it was just the sights, the smells, the cheering, the music. It was just, it was too much. It was like all the senses were engaged with previous memories And I felt like I was in that place. I can't explain it, except it was just. It just took me there And I wanted so much. My son had worked so hard to be on that team And this was his senior year, or junior and senior year, and I wanted to be so present for those things.

Speaker 3: 26:18

And yet I would sit in the stands and I would be embarrassing myself because I would just sit there, i would wipe the tears, i would be like you can sit here, you can sit here. Sometimes I'd get up and go to the bathroom. I'm like I am missing it. You know I'm missing this and I hate it.

Speaker 3: 26:33

And at one point my husband looked at me And he just said with just like this, like kind of like a smirk almost, but he just like he was just like there's a band. And I was so grateful inside because what he was saying to me was I see what's going on inside you. I see how hard you're working to stay here, you know, and I just felt very seen. And now, even though that's been some time in the past, there are things that will happen to us. And even if there's no band at all, my husband will say, or I will say, to let him know I'm doing, i'm like there's a band and it might be not about the band, but it's like it's this kind of queue where either he sees in me I see something building in you, right, like I see something happening or I'll say to him I'm feeling kind of out of control here right now And it's kind of just this little phrase thing you know between two people that are in this together.

Speaker 3: 27:28

That helps us stay on the same page.

Speaker 2: 27:30

What we would call it is is a form of emotional intimacy. There's, there's that, there's that connection on an emotional level. You know that it's, it's a, it's a form of emotional intimacy.

Speaker 3: 27:44

Thank you so much for sharing Angie.

Speaker 1: 27:46

I appreciate that Because right now, there's some of our listeners who are really blessed not only by what God is continuing to do in your life, Angie, but also what God is continuing to do in Matt's life, because it's so easy for us to think you know why, why haven't I moved beyond where I am? that we failed to recognize what God has done, And you know. I just want to encourage our listeners to remember that you're going to do it wrong for a while before you do it right, but it doesn't negate God's faithfulness. God's doing the work when you seek him. When you seek him, God's doing the work, And so what an encouragement to see that the process continues, even when the brokenness is still there for a while.

Speaker 3: 28:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think, if you can, if you can start putting language to your feelings, i think that's really helpful. Or to just start admitting, and one of the things early things that I know I would do I would say I don't know why I'm so angry. I don't know why I'm so angry And I didn't. I didn't know why. I know why. Now you know. So that's a process, but I think there's this like invitation to do this with me, with the spouse, right, like I'm just admitting, like if this is confusing to you, believe me, i understand, because it's really confusing to me too, but I would really like to spend some time trying to get to underneath it, because I don't want to do this anymore.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Right, yeah, and I think that's important coming alongside of each other and, and you know, being able to say, okay, i don't know how to, i don't know what this is, i haven't figured it out, and I know you don't have it figured out either, but we're going to figure it out together.

Speaker 2: 29:17

You know, and I think that that is so important as opposed to you know, like I said, being on autopilot and thinking that, like one of the things that we mentioned in a previous episode was the whole thinking about. You know, when your spouse is triggered and they're angry, that it's about the spouse, Like it's. You know, it would be like Matt continuing to think that you were angry at him when he didn't have, like he wasn't even in the picture of what was going on in your mind. You know, and and that happens so often Like that is that is probably the number one thing. Number one undermining that trauma does in a relationship is is is just that because people are unaware and on autopilot, yeah, and so goodness. well, angie, this has been so exciting. Please tell our listeners where they can find you.

Speaker 3: 30:07

Okay, well, i will say, if you go to the website live steady on calm, that's the main place where you can find stuff that I'm doing. But also, if you're willing, i'll give you a link and I have a download of all the steps and scriptures that I rattled off today And if you'll put that there, if anybody who's listening, if they'd like to have it in their hands, i would be happy to share that with them.

Speaker 2: 30:30

Yes, i will put that link in the show. Thank, you. Excited that you were with us and share that. It is just tremendous, so exciting. Thank you so much for being willing to share where God has brought you from and where God is taking you to and how God is doing it with doing that with you One step at a time, one step at a time.

Speaker 3: 30:49

Thank you so much for inviting me on. What a joy. All right, thanks so much.