Transforming Marriage Through Understanding and Overcoming Jealousy With Shanenn Bryant
Mar 01, 2024Episode 62
Doug & Leslie Davis
Have you ever felt the sting of jealousy in a relationship and wondered if others struggle with the same silent battle? Shanenn Bryant, a relationship confidence coach with a deeply personal tale of conquering jealousy, joins us on the Vision-Driven Marriage Podcast to shed light on this common yet often unaddressed challenge. Her raw and relatable story begins in the shadow of her father's alcoholism, a journey that led her to realize the widespread nature of jealousy and its effects on trust within relationships.
In a heartfelt conversation, Shanenn opens up about the intricacies of building trust while navigating one's insecurities. Her insights into transforming thoughts and behaviors illuminate the path to deeper connections beyond the reassurances of a partner. We also address the delicate balance of support and enabling within a marriage, offering listeners coping techniques and ways to create a supportive environment that does not foster dependency.
Rounding out our discussion, we explore the importance of communication and empathy in managing jealousy. Shannon generously provides resources for continued growth, including her own podcast, "Top Self," ensuring that listeners leave equipped with tools to strengthen their marital bonds and foster trust in the face of jealousy. Join us and take a transformative step toward fortifying the foundation of your relationships.
Have you ever felt the sting of jealousy in a relationship and wondered if others struggle with the same silent battle? Shanenn Bryant, a relationship confidence coach with a deeply personal tale of conquering jealousy, joins us on the Vision-Driven Marriage Podcast to shed light on this common yet often unaddressed challenge. Her raw and relatable story begins in the shadow of her father's alcoholism, a journey that led her to realize the widespread nature of jealousy and its effects on trust within relationships.
In a heartfelt conversation, Shanenn opens up about the intricacies of building trust while navigating one's insecurities. Her insights into transforming thoughts and behaviors illuminate the path to deeper connections beyond the reassurances of a partner. We also address the delicate balance of support and enabling within a marriage, offering listeners coping techniques and ways to create a supportive environment that does not foster dependency.
Rounding out our discussion, we explore the importance of communication and empathy in managing jealousy. Shannon generously provides resources for continued growth, including her own podcast, "Top Self," ensuring that listeners leave equipped with tools to strengthen their marital bonds and foster trust in the face of jealousy. Join us and take a transformative step toward fortifying the foundation of your relationships.
Welcome to the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. If you're struggling in your marriage, or maybe you're wondering if it's even salvageable, before you give up or before you let things get too hard, let us come alongside you and help you solidify your marriage. We offer biblical encouragement and insight to help you strengthen your marriage.
Speaker 2:
Welcome into another insightful episode of the Vision Driven Marriage, where we explore the stories and the wisdom of individuals who are making waves in their fields, particularly in the context of building strong and purposeful relationships. Today, we have the honor of hosting someone whose passion for personal development and relationship empowerment is truly inspiring. Joining us today is Shannon Bryant, the dynamic founder and CEO of TopSelf, where she offers coaching, courses and community to those with feelings of low self-worth, insecurity and jealousy in their relationships. We had a deep dive into a conversation around the insidiously dangerous emotion of jealousy. Shannon shares her journey, which is one of resilience, determination and unwavering commitment to personal growth. Throughout our conversation today, we'll delve into Shannon's personal experiences, the vision behind TopSelf and the invaluable lessons that she learned along the way, from navigating the complexities of relationship to embracing vulnerability and fostering connection. Shannon's wisdom promises to inspire and empower us all to cultivate a more fulfilling and vision-driven marriage. Without further ado, let's welcome Shannon Bryant to the Vision Driven Marriage.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. We're Doug and Leslie Davis, and today we have a guest who is going to talk to us about the concept of jealousy.
Speaker 2:
Shannon is here with us and she's a self-proclaimed former insecure girl turned relationship confidence coach. She's here with us today to talk about the insidiously dangerous emotion of jealousy.
Speaker 1:
Welcome, Shannon. We're glad you're here with us today.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, Doug and Leslie. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2:
Before we get into talking about the factors of jealousy, tell us how jealousy motivated you to become a relationship confidence coach.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, if you would have told me eight years ago that I'd be helping other people overcome jealousy, I would have said nope, there is no way. For one, I really thought that's just how I made, that's just my DNA, I was born that way and there's nothing really that I can do about it. I'm just going to suffer with this for the rest of my life and I'm going to struggle in relationships with it. And two, I really thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only person that felt that way, that was that insecure in relationships and had the thoughts that I did, and so I had no idea that I would be helping other people overcome it. But I eventually had to go. I have got to figure this thing out and there was not a lot of people that are talking about it and so there wasn't a lot of resources out there.
Speaker 3:
I have my own podcast and it kind of came about because I was talking with an ACA women's group, so adult children of alcoholics. My father was an alcoholic, so I grew up in a very chaotic, violent environment and I was sharing with that group just how it was to be raised in that environment, what I went through, but then, more specifically, the challenges that it brought as an adult, and I spoke about my challenges in relationship and my jealousy and how insecure I was and I would you know, I ruined probably some relationships with some decent people because of my jealousy, but I really stayed way too long and some bad ones because of my insecurity, and so I was just sharing what it was like, how I was in my relationships, being jealous, and at the end all these hands went up and like thank you so much. I cannot believe there's somebody else that thinks the way that I do, that's doing these kinds of things in their relationship, and I was like, okay, I need to talk about this because nobody else is doing it.
Speaker 2:
Yes, I know we were excited to find you as a resource.
Speaker 1:
Because we know a lot of our listeners are dealing with exactly what you just described. Not only are they dealing with jealousy, but they think that they're the only ones who are going through it, and they can't imagine that other people are experiencing it too. But what a blessing that the things that you've learned, you're able to share with other people now.
Speaker 2:
And I think that's what makes jealousy so insidious, because it's so sly, like a lot of times, people don't realize what's motivating how they're pushing people away or why they're clinging onto people so tightly, and they don't even have a label for it. They can't even sum it up and say this is because I'm jealous. It's really a dangerous emotion to be experiencing.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not something people are putting on their dating profiles right Before then when?
Speaker 3:
they're dating like. I will look through your things, I will question you and I will. This will be a sore spot in our relationship. I was very fortunate I kind of joke about it, but it's. You know, I've been with my husband for 15 years.
Speaker 3:
For probably the first six years of that seven years maybe it was really difficult. It was difficult for both of us. That was the height of my jealousy and it got to a point where it was so bad. It then started changing the way he behaved, his personality. You know. He felt like he couldn't look around a room. He felt like he had to walk with his head down. We started to not be able to go to even dinners and movies and events together, and so talk about a marriage, you know, on the rocks or a relationship on the rocks. And that was when I was like we have to, I have to fix this, because it's not only hurting him but it's also really hard to go through it. And I, you know I say this all the time yes, it's very hard for the partner, but you know me more than anyone and somebody suffering from it. You want more than you would do anything to not feel this way and you're not sure why you do, you have gained a level of self-awareness through going through that.
Speaker 2:
A lot of people are going through these struggles and they're on autopilot and so they don't realize why they're motivated to, you know, become to have such a negative emotional reaction to the fact that their husband, you know, is looking around the restaurant at dinnertime, or you know, and it becomes this kind of overblown negative emotion thing and they don't have a label for it, you know. So what are some of the things, Shannon, that you would suggest our listeners to look for as they're trying to become more self-aware about this really solid negative emotion?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, well, I first want to say too, you know, having a little bit of jealousy here and there, that's okay, that's normal Occasionally. You know, especially if you're in a committed long-term relationship, there's certainly gonna be a time or two where you're like, hmm, that's interesting or that kind of okay, but that should be all it is. So when this jealousy really starts to guide your life and starts to interfere with your relationship and you stop doing the things that you typically enjoy, I remember a day where I wanted to. I was going to the mall and I was there for probably 15 or 20 minutes and I almost had a panic attack because I was like I don't know what he's doing at home. You know, I don't know what he's doing, and I left and I thought, oh my gosh, I can't even go to the mall now, and so I just want people to understand sort of the differences. So if it is then starting to really run your life the very first place I would start.
Speaker 3:
You said self-awareness is really the key you have to get, and I say you know, you can't move once in your way until you acknowledge what you think, do and say. And we have to get really clear on those things because a lot of times you mentioned being on autopilot, I wasn't aware of kind of the flippant comments that I was saying or how often I was looking at his phone or looking them up on location. I knew, you know, this was kind of a habit. But when you start to get self-aware and go, okay, what are the things that I'm saying to that person on a daily basis? Am I questioning them more from a standpoint of not so much that I'm interested in their day, but I'm trying to connect the dots? So that might be something like okay, I need to look at that. And then the think part is really really big.
Speaker 3:
And that was probably a game changer for me because, you know, my parents divorced when I was 12. My dad was still drinking and I said I don't want to have anything to do with you as long as you're drinking, and he took that to heart until I didn't speak to him again until I was about 25, and then not again until just this last three years, which unfortunately was also the last three years of his life. So I carried with me, unknowingly, this story in my head that well, if my own father doesn't love me, no one who else is gonna love me. You know, I must not be worthy of someone's love if it's not even coming from my own dad. And so, really digging into what are the thoughts that you've been telling yourself that are probably not true.
Speaker 3:
And that was one for me, and I had to realize no, he had a, he had a problem with alcohol, and that's it. You know, I had nothing to do with myself for as a person or my ability to be loved, and so we really have to get self aware and go. What am I thinking doing insane in this relationship?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, because if you were waiting for you know the other shoe to drop, I'm sure that that created eggshells just because he'd be waiting for Whatever your reaction would be to whatever was going on in your thought pattern. That really didn't have a lot to do with him, because you were motivated with what was going, you know, with what had gone on in your childhood, and we see that so often people carrying emotional issues from their childhood into their current relationships and when you shared about your opportunity to become a little bit more aware of what was motivating some of your jealousy.
Speaker 1:
I think that a lot of our listeners can relate to that and in a moment we want to talk about some of the things they can do to help that. But first, what were the things that you noticed that were part of the changes in behavior for your husband as he was trying to figure out how to navigate the way that you felt and the way that you were struggling?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, that's such a good question because you know part of this and I really equate it to and you know as negative as it sounds. I really equate it to this. This insecure habit loop that we get into is very similar to a drug addiction in a way. Because You're craving this like I need to, I need some sort of reassurance that everything is okay. I need to find something, and that's typically when people, as I say, go snooping or digging. We're trying to look for any signs that they're not doing it. You know they're not cheating on us, they're not going to leave us, and so we may look at their phone or we may ask them the questions you know kind of go through the questioning and when we get that reassurance, we feel better for just a little bit, but then you have the urge again and you have to go digging again, and so one of the things to keep in mind is I, if what I want is true, meaning if I want a partner who's being faithful to me, who you know is upstanding, who is trustworthy, then I could look forever. I can't prove fidelity, so I would just continue to look because there's never going to be that thing there, right, and so we get into these habit loops, and those are things that we have to break.
Speaker 3:
And so, you know, I noticed with my husband he was also trying to figure out how to deal with my accusations or my thoughts my accusations or my thoughts, and so he would try different things. He tried to be really patient, talk, give me that reassurance, but it would only last so long. He couldn't continue to reassure me, and so I think it's something and you know, people really need to pay attention to what their partners is. That's a very different relationship than the parent relationship that you missed out on. So for me, I didn't have that parent relationship with my father. I cannot get that from my husband. It's not his job to constantly reassure that insecurity in me. And so I say jealousy is. It's not the problem, jealousy is a solution, meaning it's trying to say, hey, you need to go figure out. I need that constant reassurance. You need to go figure out what's going on, yeah, instead of seeking it in your relationship, and so.
Speaker 2:
so how long did it take then to reverse those behaviors and reverse those thoughts?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean it took me quite a while and, to be honest, there are still times where it may pop up for me when I'm not managing it well, when I'm not sticking with my quote unquote.
Speaker 3:
You know my own ways of turning the volume down on jealousy. But so it was a slow process because there were a lot of things, you know, as you kind of peel back the layer of that onion, it's like oh, and then this too, so my relationship with my dad, okay, like, let's go see what that's about, let's go work on that. So I mean, it wasn't over a course of a few years, but that's why I really wanted to start the podcast and the coaching to help other people, because I know how bad it is when you're suffering. You feel very alone, you're anxious every single day, you're worried that your person's going to leave you because of your jealousy, and so they're wanting that like, help me in as fast as we possibly can do it. So it took me quite a while and, and you know, hopefully it was speeding up that process. But the beautiful thing is we're always growing. So if you're working on it, you're growing in some way, which is beautiful.
Speaker 1:
And we've had several opportunities over the last year where we've shared with couples that both spouses need to make sure that they're living a life where they're trustworthy, because trust can be such an issue. And you know and trust isn't the only thing that is questioned when there's jealousy issues, but it's one of the big ones. And so one of the things I'd like our listeners to understand that there's lots of different reasons why somebody could struggle with trust. This is just one of them. So, as you become more and more trustworthy and then start to identify why there's a trust issue, if you find out that one of your trust issues has to do with this feeling of jealousy, regardless of where it came from, you know, I'm so grateful that you shared that you discovered where your insecurities came from. But you know, right now we've got people listening who say we understand the struggle with trust, we understand the feelings of jealousy, but we don't really know what to do. So what are some practical things they can do to make that, to begin the process of making that situation better?
Speaker 3:
Yeah. So two things really come to mind, and a lot of times where I start, one of them is being open to what I call the power of one O-N-E, so open to new, and then you kind of fill in the blank open to a new explanation, open to new evidence, open to new examples, because we get so stuck in the stories that we have in our head and so in any of these small scenarios, so for like us, if I were sitting at the restaurant with my husband and he I noticed he's, you know, looking around the room or scanning the room, I need to be open to. Okay, is there another explanation than what's initially coming to my mind? So, first degree thoughts, they're usually wrong. When you're feeling that anxious feeling and you're feeling jealous, it's usually wrong what your first thought is. So is there another explanation of why he might be doing that? Could he maybe be looking at the artwork? Could he maybe looking to see where the restroom is? Could he maybe noticing someone attractive, and that's okay.
Speaker 3:
So I think the power of one is really powerful in being able to try to start to look at the things differently than you always have, because we get on that autopilot, we get on the same habits that we're always doing, and so trying to open it up and then really going back to the think-do-say, I think it's really important for people to sit down and go.
Speaker 3:
Let me take inventory of all of those things that I'm doing, as many of those things as I can come up with, because then you know, we can't solve something if we don't know what's there, and so now I can see these things, and so one thing that I do in is, if you have these patterns where you're looking at their phone or their text message or social media or looking them up on location, we got to pick one of those things first that we feel like we're going to be pretty successful and like I can do all the other 17 things but this one thing, that's it.
Speaker 3:
I'm not doing this one thing for, let's say, for seven days. How long can we get through without looking up on location, even if it's a small thing? Because we've got to have those mini wins along the way to kind of keep that going of. Okay, because what you find is oh, I didn't have that anxious, upset stomach when I was going and looking up on location, services or whatever the thing is that you're doing. So we start small. But going back to the thing to say, I think it's really important to take that inventory.
Speaker 2:
And I like how you mentioned that there are physical symptoms that you experienced, with the anxiety that's coming from jealousy, because so often people who are on autopilot and they're not self-aware of what's going on, they may have those physical symptoms the upset stomach or the headache, the rush of the heart pounding in your head and they're not attributing it to the insecurity that's fueling this jealousy that they're feeling. And so I really like the self-awareness part and the things that you can do to raise that self-awareness.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and we talked earlier. I mean, as you were saying, that stress hormone. We know when your body is in constant stress, when it's in that fight or flight mode, that is so unhealthy. And so we hear it all the time about food, you know, diet, exercise. But even in this, even with the symptom of jealousy, your diet and exercise are so important. And sleep as well. We know if you're feeling very anxious all day long, you're probably not going to sleep very well because your mind is still racing. And so, as simple as it seems, when you're feeling anxious, when you're feeling jealous, when you're feeling that stressed, going for a walk to help get your mind even a little more clear so that you can think with that reality brain versus your panic brain, that's going to help you too.
Speaker 1:
Well, and when you shared about the concept of one, I loved how that can meet the couples who are listening where they are. Regardless of where they are, because it's something that you can do that's practical right now, whether you've been working on this for a while or if you've just today decided that you're going to start the process of trying to address the jealousy that you're dealing with. Are there any other practical strategies that you'd share with our listeners that you know? Things that can meet them where they are, regardless of whether they've been trying to fix this for a while or if today's the first day they decided I'm going to jump in and address the jealousy that I'm dealing with.
Speaker 3:
Yeah. So I'd love to share a very simple one. When that person is what I call like kind of in their jealous meltdown, this is when people will describe it as like it's this thing that's taken over me. I feel like I have no control, and we've all probably felt that right when someone's caught us off or when something has just really engaged our nervous system and we feel like, oh, I just, you know some, it just flew out of my mouth before, before I could really think, or I did this thing and I wish I hadn't. So you know one thing that I say, and it's and it goes back to and I know people are like, oh, please don't tell me breathing.
Speaker 3:
But box breathing is so good. And I say it because you know, yes, can you do meditation and yes, the walking and those types of things, but your breath is always with you. You can do it at the dinner table when you're starting to feel a little panicked. You can do it in the kitchen if you are hearing a conversation that's making you anxious. So you're always going to have your breath with you and so doing that box breathing. And people can Google it and look it up. There's a lot of demonstrations on box breathing.
Speaker 3:
But my advice is you have to practice it outside of that panic so that it will work when you're in the panic right, because we probably all took CPR at some point. You know, I remember being taught CPR a long time ago. But if I haven't done it since the 10th grade and now I need it to do it in an emergency situation, I'm probably not going to be very you know, I'm not going to do it very well and I probably will forget a little bit the steps. So I always say you know any of those techniques, you really need to practice them outside of this particular panic. So maybe there's something else. Maybe the kids are kind of going at each other one evening and you need to like, oh, I need to. You know de-stress here, so trying to find other situations where you can use it, so you can practice it.
Speaker 1:
Well, one of the other things that you'd shared that I really think has resonated with our listeners I know it did with me. You were talking about how you know that little, tiny levels of jealousy aren't always unhealthy. It's when it becomes something that's difficult to maintain your relationship that you really need to address it. And what I am starting to learn I've been looking at jealousy the last couple of weeks the context is the whole concept of you matter so much to me I don't want to share you is kind of a sweet sentiment until it becomes something that is difficult for the relationship. And so the actions you know the thought of I love you so much that your mind and I love that your mind is a good thing. When it starts to become crippling in your relationship and starts to cause you struggles individually as well as as a couple, you know that's. I loved how you pointed out that those are the things you need to be looking for. That's where it becomes a real issue.
Speaker 3:
There are many different terms, that we can call it morbid jealousy, but this obsessive jealousy is really rooted in fear. So, it doesn't really come from love, and I feel like we can always tell the difference right. This is out of love. This is really coming from fear, because it feels a lot heavier, and that's what this type of extreme jealousy feels like.
Speaker 1:
That's where that self-awareness becomes so important, because then you recognize that this isn't the normal, healthy thing. There's something else here, and so one of the other things that I wanted to ask you what are some of the things that the spouse who's coming alongside the jealous spouse can really do? Because you talked earlier about wanting to look at location and check the texts on the phone and those types of things? Does it help when the spouse is able to say look, you have access to my stuff anytime you want. Let me come alongside you while you are able to work through this. What are some things that the spouse can do to help?
Speaker 3:
I'm so glad you asked that question because, as someone who loves the other person, we want to do. We want to make them feel better. We're like, okay, let me, I'll show you whatever or I'm going to reassure you every time that you ask. But we are human and that gets really old, really really fast.
Speaker 2:
So if you compared that to an addiction, wouldn't that be like enabling your spouse you know you're enabling rights and co-dependencies and enabling of that addiction type behavior?
Speaker 3:
A hundred percent. That's exactly where I was going, Leslie is if we're constantly giving them that reassurance by answering their whole list of questions. Let me show you my phone, Let me tell you again how much I love you. And, yes, we're not really helping them because all we're doing is okay, I got my fix, but I'm going to come back for it very soon. So be prepared because I'm going to come right back for it. Now. There are some things that a spouse or partner can do. Where you can come up with one, I think it's for the person who's feeling jealous. There's a real way to have communication about being jealous, One. We don't want to blame our partners, and that's what a lot of us want to do in the future. If you hadn't looked at her, if you hadn't said that, if you hadn't been overly flirty, then I wouldn't be feeling this way. So first we have to realize it doesn't matter what your partner is doing. If this is running your life, it's a you problem.
Speaker 2:
And we call that keeping our own side of the street clean.
Speaker 3:
Yes, so we have to be able to communicate with our partner. My jealousy is really raring up right now. These are the things that I'm telling myself. So you're just having a different conversation versus blaming that person, and most of the time you'll see your partner is a little bit more supportive maybe, than when you're accusing them.
Speaker 2:
I can imagine that that would bring out a stronger level of understanding and connection, but you guys can come up with something together.
Speaker 3:
In that instance, if the jealous person is saying, hey, this is what's running through my mind and this is what I'm telling myself right now, you guys could say when I say that, could you? I mean, maybe it's just putting a hand on my leg or maybe it's just holding my hand, that's okay. But when we are giving in to these high demands, that's when, as you said, we're kind of feeding that addiction for them.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, and being able to be completely open without enabling is going to be a goal for the couples, but it's very difficult and I love how you said you can come up with some of those rules, some of those things that you can do as a couple that will help you to be able to take steps toward strengthening the relationship instead of letting the jealousy continue to cause ripples and to divide.
Speaker 3:
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you know, my husband, they're trying to figure out too, and that's what my husband did, like, okay, first I'm understanding, and then, just as humans, like, okay, I've had enough, and so then we might argue, right, and then he would try a different tactic. And try a different tactic. So just as the jealous person is trying to figure out what's working for them, to kind of navigate through them, so is your partner. And so if you're coming back and being upset with them because they weren't as supportive as you wanted or they weren't as reassuring, or they are not saying it enough, or it can really get out of control. So being just mindful and empathetic to each other that you're both dealing with, it is very helpful. And so, my husband, you know we've been able to figure out how to navigate and how I communicate to him when I'm feeling that way and what is helpful that he can give back. That's not feeding that for me.
Speaker 1:
I love how the communication is the key to be able to communicate what's going on in a way that can be heard and received and to be able to work through that together, because you're communicating such a blessing and I know that our listeners are going to be blessed. I know that they've already been blessed with the communication we've had with you so far today, but can you tell our listeners where they can find you on social media, where they can find your podcast?
Speaker 3:
Yes, so the podcast is called Top Self and it's anywhere that you get your podcast and then the website is TopSelfcom. I'm on Instagram at TopSelfCoach, so they can find me there and I will link all those in the show notes, for sure.
Speaker 1:
Shannon, thank you so much for being with us today. I know that there are a lot of people who said I thought I was the only one, and this has really been a positive step in the right direction for me to find some things that are going to help my relationship. Thank you.
Speaker 3:
Thank you both so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:
Yes, it was a joy to have you on the Vision Driven Marriage.
Speaker 1:
And again we've been talking with Shannon Bryant. This is the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. We're Doug and Leslie Davis. We continue to pray that God will solidify your marriage.