Have you ever witnessed the incredible transformation that faith can bring into a marriage? Scott and Katie LaPierre join us this Valentine's season to unpack the potent blend of grace and tenacity that defines a vision-driven marriage. Their story, a genuine testament to the power of Biblical principles, delves into the intricacies of parenting, homeschooling, and ministry life, all while nurturing the sacred bond of matrimony. They remind us that even the most profound differences between partners can be the very catalysts for growth, drawing a couple closer together as they navigate life's hurdles with God at the helm.
Wrapping up the episode, we celebrate the Valentine season by discussing the milestones of transformation and redemption that arise when couples and individuals wholeheartedly surrender to Jesus Christ. David and Tracy Sellars share inspiring stories from the heart of their ministry, Vows to Keep, describing a wife's relentless pursuit of a covenant marriage in the wake of her husband's infidelity – a poignant reminder of God's redemptive power.
Whether it's rekindling a covenant love or taking the step to fully commit one's life to Christ, the transformative power of God's grace in marriage is a profound testament to the hope and love that blooms when we let God lead the way. Join us for an episode that reaffirms the power of faith to renew, restore, and revitalize our most cherished human connection.
Have you ever witnessed the incredible transformation that faith can bring into a marriage? Scott and Katie LaPierre join us this Valentine's season to unpack the potent blend of grace and tenacity that defines a vision-driven marriage. Their story, a genuine testament to the power of Biblical principles, delves into the intricacies of parenting, homeschooling, and ministry life, all while nurturing the sacred bond of matrimony. They remind us that even the most profound differences between partners can be the very catalysts for growth, drawing a couple closer together as they navigate life's hurdles with God at the helm.
Wrapping up the episode, we celebrate the Valentine season by discussing the milestones of transformation and redemption that arise when couples and individuals wholeheartedly surrender to Jesus Christ. David and Tracy Sellars share inspiring stories from the heart of their ministry, Vows to Keep, describing a wife's relentless pursuit of a covenant marriage in the wake of her husband's infidelity – a poignant reminder of God's redemptive power.
Whether it's rekindling a covenant love or taking the step to fully commit one's life to Christ, the transformative power of God's grace in marriage is a profound testament to the hope and love that blooms when we let God lead the way. Join us for an episode that reaffirms the power of faith to renew, restore, and revitalize our most cherished human connection.
Welcome to the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast. If you're struggling in your marriage, or maybe you're wondering if it's even salvageable, before you give up or before you let things get too hard, let us come alongside you and help you solidify your marriage. We offer biblical encouragement and insight to help you strengthen your marriage.
Speaker 4:
Welcome to another episode of the Vision Driven Marriage, where we dive deep into the heart of Christian marriage, exploring its challenges, triumphs and the grace that sustains it all. As we're celebrating Valentine's Day this month, we want to share with you some powerful testimonies from couples that have walked the journey of marriage and faith as they're guiding light In this episode. We hear from Scott and Katie LaPierre, and we hear from David and Tracy Sellers, so let's jump in.
Speaker 2:
Today, our guests are Scott and Katie LaPierre, and they've got some interesting things to share about what God has done in their marriage.
Speaker 4:
So, scott and Katie, how has God provided transformation or restoration through your marriage?
Speaker 5:
Yeah. So I think one thing that came to mind is when Katie and I got married, we were going to our premarital counselors and I can remember they had kind of told us that in a subtle way that we seemed proud because I think we maybe many couples have thought this, that we're going to be like the first married couple in history to not have any problems in our relationship. And so we come to premarital counseling and they kind of like, subtly, let us know, hey, marriage isn't as easy as you think. There's going to be conflict, and we're kind of like, yeah, I mean, we know that that happens with other couples, but probably not going to be the case for us. And so it didn't take too long for us to recognize that marriage is difficult. It's the union of two selfish, sinful people cloaked in flesh, and we need the gospel, we need Christ, and so I think we saw pretty early how easily that comes out in our relationship.
Speaker 5:
And one thing when I'm doing my marriage conferences, I'm convinced God's Word has a very high standard for husbands and wives and I think if anyone doesn't know that, they are just not familiar with the standard that God sets right, because husbands are to be what Christ is to the church and wives are to be what the church is to be to Christ.
Speaker 5:
And so I believe I present a very high, bold standard of my conferences, because I'm doing my best to relate what God's Word says, and when I come to the end of one of my messages after I feel like people could potentially be feeling sort of beat up about hearing what their supposed to be like and seeing how they fall short.
Speaker 5:
It's really one of the things I've had to realize is it's not so much us trying harder and I've done a lot of marriage counseling and you can see this very discouraged look on people's faces when they come in and are already at the end of the rope and they hear you say something like well, you just have to try harder. I mean, they already feel like I've been trying as hard as I can and all I've done is get me in your office here with my spouse and we don't even want to look at each other and so telling us to try harder isn't really the solution, and so I think that's where we need to recognize that it's about surrendering to Christ, the gospel working through us, the gospel transforming us, not something we can do in our own effort, and to try to do that in our own effort generally just leads to frustration.
Speaker 4:
What was one of your biggest struggles and how did God lead you through that?
Speaker 5:
Katie is expecting our 10th child any day, and so Katie got pregnant soon after we were married and most of our relationship we've had children and been homeschooling and, along with pastoring and being a senior pastor's wife there's been a lot of stress on our relationship. You throw children into that and it makes it even more stressful, and so we were able to see our selfishness, our impatience pretty early on, I think, in our relationship and in our need for Christ, and so when you have a lot of kids and you're homeschooling and you've got a church and all that, it's kind of a mountain of things that can constrain our relationship. And so we've had to I feel like I'm doing a lot of talking so you can feel pretty shiny they had to rely on Christ and trust the gospel to transform us.
Speaker 6:
And I heard a great quote. It said every couple is incompatible. It's what you do with the incompatibility that determines the joy or lack of joy in your marriage. But I think we're very incompatible in many ways. We actually took this personality test thing and it said basically don't marry each other. There will be a lot of conflict.
Speaker 5:
It's the Myers-Briggs, it's probably one of the more, and it's not like we're huge fans or proponents or believe that everything Myers-Briggs says or does is perfect.
Speaker 4:
God is so much bigger than that, right, yeah, yeah, I will say.
Speaker 5:
But it was amusing to take that and recognize that we have the personalities that you're not supposed to marry.
Speaker 6:
that God is sovereign over those things and he knew we needed some extra refining. So, inviting the incompatibility in and recognizing God has chosen this person to be your spouse and he wants to use it to make you more like Christ. It's better, it helps to not resist, it is much, and so we will regularly, I'll regularly tell him you're like this and it's helping me to become more like this, and I hope he would say the same. And so another thing that I was thinking of when he was talking is that Much of our hope Gets put into marriage, and God never wanted us to put our hope there, right, because in the Psalms, when it says, why are you so downcast on my soul? You know he says put your hope in God.
Speaker 6:
And you can see this hopelessness that comes in marriages because they're placing so much hope in their marriage, it's never supposed to be there. And if our hope is always in Christ, then our marriage can remain full of hope too, because he doesn't change. So that's something that I'm regularly trying to counsel myself with and teach other women that your husband may never change, but Christ remains the same today, yesterday and forever, and you can call on him, you can lean on him and depend on him and and Not giving this false hope that your marriage is going to be perfect someday, because no marriage will be perfect someday.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, and we've. You know, we've seen that that people are are waiting for their spouse to be perfect or they're, you know, not looking to Christ for their hope, that they're finding their hope in in their marriage, which is basically like people Trying to find their salvation and going to church, you know, and that's doesn't work that doesn't work that way.
Speaker 5:
No yeah, we have the potential to ruin you know any, any good thing God gives us and I try to run the Brown serpent it's this great life saving, life, giving you know that Moses holds it up and then people can be saved, say from the venomous snakes, and then they turned it into an idol. It had to be, you know, destroyed and has a chi as they. They called in a hushed and started worshiping it. So we take all good things and turn it into the hushed and whether it's intimacy, money or marriage and, and essentially, when our hope is in our spouse versus Christ, we we turn marriage or we turn our spouse into an idol.
Speaker 5:
It's kind of what I'm hearing and so I think, by God's grace, a lot of people have said over the years that we Are a very good team and I believe that. I think Kate is an incredible pastor's wife and I think she's a great mother and wife and homeschooling mother. But I think maybe some people don't understand some of the things you've had to overcome or work through, some of the differences, some of the. I was a school teacher before I became a pastor and so I had a pretty strong Feeling about the way schooling should be done, and let's just say, katie does it oppositely.
Speaker 5:
I had a very orderly, structured way that I wanted my classroom to run, for my students to behave, to do their work, even to sit in their chairs or desks. Come into the classroom. Past paper. We have routines, procedures for everything, and Katie is like the opposite. Very Well, how do you, how do you?
Speaker 6:
rules are like a nightmare. If I'm having a nightmare, there's boundaries and rules involved. So I you know it's that's been a constant thing I've thought about to the homeschooling has put extra pressure on our marriage as well, because here he is, I married a school teacher and I'm like what are we doing today, guys? What's the vision? You know? And it's just very different. I'm like there's so much freedom in homeschooling. So, yeah, that's been another area that God has had to help us communicate better and you know, also recognize I am the one who's gonna be homeschooling them and God is sovereign over that too, and hopefully he'll use my personality or the way he made me to shape our children, and I have to accept that God made him the dad, and so there's things that come with that that I have to bend to as well. There's a lot of bending and marriage to make it work, yeah, there is but the, the children that the Lord gave to you are Purposeful.
Speaker 4:
You know, like that wasn't a random, that's not a random choice. You know so the kids that are under your tutelage, that you're right. God is sovereign over that and God knows that you were going to be their mom and school teacher. You know, I know we have a lot of differences in a lot of different places too, and thank God for grace, right.
Speaker 6:
And thank God, you both know him, I, if there's a married couple that they both know God, that's the first thing I tell them be thankful, because so many marriages that we deal with at conferences or whatever, often the wife saying that her husband is not a believer. That would be. That's very hard. Yeah and just knowing that Scott does love the Lord Automatically bring more peace to my heart.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, and I'll do an amount of premarital counseling.
Speaker 5:
Katie often joins me for it, and you want to see an amount of compatibility between people too like that If I'm going to officiate, I want to be confident, officiate a wedding, I want to be confident that this is going to be healthy marriage. And you're looking for any potential red flags. I mean, if one wants to homeschool, one doesn't. One doesn't want to have kids for five years, one wants to have kids, right, all and so. But. But with that said, the greatest confidence you can have is when you have two people. Love Christ. Because there's, I have this confidence that if things are strong vertically, then they're going to be strong horizontally.
Speaker 5:
And so the strong vertical relationship with Christ is going to overcome any horizontal problems or issues that arise, whereas if you have let's say you have a lot of compatibility between two people but they don't love Christ, well then that's, that's a marriage that's probably going to have problems, even if it looks like it's going to be strong because of the compatibility.
Speaker 5:
But if you take two people with incompatibilities but they love the Lord, then they're going to overcome those issues simply because of their hearts for Christ. You know that husband is going to strive to love his wife because he loves Christ, and that wife is going to strive to submit to her husband or respect her husband, because she wants to submit to Christ, and so that's really what can allow any of the any of the problems in the marriage relationship to be overcome. So that's one of the main things I'll look for is two people that have a heart for Christ, because that makes me very optimistic about the relationship and then being able to weather any of those storms that they're going to end up encountering.
Speaker 4:
Yeah, weathering storms when both spouses are under the leading of the Lord is so much easier than an unequally yoke of, or or even even two unbelievers. You know that are trying to do that in their own strength. Right, you know you were talking about weathering the storms. Give us an example of how you know maybe something that's happened in your life that that the Lord just kind of miraculously worked through or had to redeem, because, you know, with with all of the storms of life, you know, maybe there was some redemptive work going on there. Do you have an example of something that maybe you can share with us?
Speaker 6:
Yeah, I was thinking about. Scott Sheredy's been in pastoral ministry now for about 15 years and the last 13 have been here in Southwest Washington. We had our first major church split after we had had another major trial right before that and I was pregnant with number nine, very hormonal and not dealing well with it. I think it was, you know, the 10 years of just feeling like constant trial after trial and these people we had held hands with you know, walked hand in hand with for the last 10 years were now the enemy or they were making themselves an enemy some of them. So I was just not handling it well.
Speaker 6:
I ended up having numerous panic attacks and feeling like I can't do this anymore and I felt like, by God's grace, scott was weathering the storm for me. Because I was not weathering it. I was kind of like in the middle of the storms, you know, yelling, and he was weathering that for me and kind of calmly trying to walk next to me through that, even though he was going through the same storm. So just to encourage any men listening that you can be a great, you know, source of strength, god can use you mightily and your life through these storms and he can shape you to become more compassionate and these things that maybe you're lacking in if you're open to him using you that way in the life of your wife.
Speaker 6:
And so after about I don't know how long it was, I think like a year of not doing well, we, I feel like I came to a place actually of repentance and feeling like I had yanked my husband around on a roller coaster with my emotions. He shielded our kids, I feel like, from that. I don't really feel like they had to deal much with it because he was willing to handle it. But now we're here on the other side and I'm pregnant number 10, and the same in the same stage of pregnancy. We still have church stuff going on constantly and I feel like now I'm able to endure that so much better. And I wrote myself. Scott said you know, hey, maybe next time you get pregnant, or if you get pregnant, you can write yourself a letter and so you can read it when you're feeling these emotions. And I said, okay, I'll write a letter. This is what it will say Don't trust yourself.
Speaker 3:
I got a little scared.
Speaker 6:
Like you're feeling these things. It's very real. But yeah, I think that was a major like how God used a storm to strengthen our relationship, build my confidence in him, probably force him to step up and be strong in Christ as well.
Speaker 5:
Yeah, and I think one encouragement I have is that God's called men to be leaders in the home and the church.
Speaker 5:
It's one of the major problems I think in the church today is that men are not leading, and so I think men, it's important to lead in the family, and I don't mean being dictatorial or authoritarian or harsh or anything, but I did feel like that was one time where I really I didn't have a choice but to lead, because otherwise if I'd have, let's just say, submitted to Katie and it's not to say, you know, in the language of 1 Peter, 3, 7, that we don't dwell with our wives in an understanding way, not to say we're in sense to get to their needs or herds, but we lead and we strive to lead in a gentle, loving way, shepherding our wives through whatever storms they might face.
Speaker 5:
And by God's grace I didn't acquiesce and leave the ministry or, you know, go back to teaching, elementary school and coaching or something like that, and we would have regretted it. And so that's just one thing I'd say, and I was far from perfect during that season. You know, despite how Katie might talk about it, I have regrets about the way that I handle certain things, but by God's grace we made it through that and I, and you know, was trying to shepherd Katie during a difficult season in her life or in our relationship, and so I would leave that as an encouragement for husbands to strive to determine God's will for your life, for your family and your home, and then walk in that path and lead your family in that direction.
Speaker 2:
Well, and I think that a lot of our listeners can relate to having storms.
Speaker 2:
They may not be able to relate to what you shared. I'm so grateful that you did, because we have an opportunity in the midst of our struggles to realize that God wasn't caught off guard by the things we're going through. He has a plan for us, he has a purpose for us, he loves us and it can be a refining fire even in the midst of real hardship, really difficult hardship, where we get to step up to do some of the things, maybe in a different way or a more productive way than we'd been previously doing it. So, even in the midst of difficulty, we have two options we can try to do it in our own strength and really struggle, or we can realize that God's got a plan and submit to some of the refining that he's doing in our lives so we become the better, more obedient versions of what God's called us to be. And so we see that transformative power when we're able to look to God in the midst of the hardship instead of just staring at the hardship. And we're so grateful that you shared your testimony.
Speaker 5:
Absolutely Well. Thanks for having us on the show. I appreciate what you guys are doing, doug and Leslie, for your marriages, and we have a like-minded ministry Heartsburg to see marriages strengthen. So thanks for letting me be a small part of it in the previous interview and now through sharing our testimony.
Speaker 2:
I appreciate you guys Well. Thank you both for being here with us.
Speaker 4:
Next we'll hear from David and Tracy Sellers. We are joined today by David and Tracy Sellers, founders of Vows to Keep developing biblically healthy marriages. They're here today to share with us their transformational stories. Welcome guys, hey, great to be here.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's good to have you with us. We just have one question, one thing that we'd love for you to share with our listeners how has God provided either transformation or restoration in or through your marriage?
Speaker 1:
Well, I have to actually start by to answer that question. I have to back up a little bit. So I got to share a little bit of history. On our second date, tracy and I were actually talking about marriage ministry, about how we would serve God in the ministry of marriage. Now it wasn't called Vows to Keep then, but ultimately would become Vows to Keep. We just celebrated our 22nd wedding anniversary.
So we've got three kids in college, or three kids two in college, one in high school and I will say that I've been an engineer working in healthcare field for 22 years and Tracy's been in radio for 16 years. She's written three books, a lot of these things which ultimately have given us an opportunity to not only watch what God has been able to do, but to have a front row seat to it.
Speaker 4:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Vows to Keep was really founded, as you said, on the mission of building big, healthy marriages, and what I want to share with you tonight, what we want to share with you tonight, is really an outpouring from what God has given us a front row seat to see. So we developed Vows to Keep with an intention to be able to share truth from God's word in the form of a podcast, much like your own, and then do couples counseling and events to just encourage people in their marriage, and what we repeatedly see is that God uses marriage problems to draw people back to him, and that has been true in our own marriage.
Speaker 3:
I was just gonna say that's true with us, yes.
Speaker 1:
It has been true with most people that we get an opportunity to meet, because oftentimes, when someone comes seeking help for their marriage, they are not sure that there's any hope for it. That's just such a common situation we see. So what I want to share with you, I guess, is a story. This is a real, true story. I'm not gonna share the couple's name, but we had an opportunity through a wife simply hitting Google and saying I need marriage help.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and then one night we get a phone call and we got this lady on the other line saying I just listened to a podcast you guys had out about a covenant versus a contract marriage and it really hit her because she realized okay, I'm in a covenant marriage, I am, but my husband is not. He's in a contract marriage, and what do I do? So glad she reached out to us.
Speaker 1:
And I think part of this was a realization through listening to this broadcast. Actually, she had been in a contract marriage, but she wanted to be in a covenant marriage.
Speaker 3:
And one of the first things we shared with her was, first, peter three, where it talks about why is aren't called to win over their husbands by words, you know, just trying to just convince them. And I'm just, I'm going to, you know, kind of beat you be the truth into you, but it's more of how they live, more of how they love, like Christ. And so she decided I have not been doing that, but I'm going to do that. I want that covenant marriage. And so after a few months her husband actually agreed to come to counseling, which was a miracle. We were praying for that and at the time they lived seven hours away from us. So how do you do counseling? Well, we do video counseling with couples as well, in person and video. So they came to counseling and he revealed something kind of shocking.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, he had shared after the first couple meetings that he was in fact having an affair with another man, and for many people, this is where I mean all bets are off right Like wow. But I think we see in God's word that affairs come in all shapes and sizes. They start in our hearts. In fact, you can turn to the Old Testament and you can see that God even refers to his own people as people that are being adulterous. So this isn't something new, but it's also something that many times when we don't realize that the first offense is usually actually not to our spouse, it's actually to God. And so we had the opportunity to really share how Jesus is in the business of redemption. He sees us as broken sinners and he is not in a position where he wants us to get our due. Yes, there is a judgment day coming, right, there is. He is a just God, but Jesus, he goes to the cross with a very specific purpose and heart and mind that's to capture our hearts. Now, of course, he's not condoning sin and sin like this is terrible, right but as a fellow sinner hoping to help fellow sinners, the challenge that we spoke of is what if redemption was possible Now this husband had grown up in a church.
Speaker 1:
He was there every time the doors were opened. In some ways, what we saw and what we've commonly sometimes run across is like these career Christians where it's like, hey, I've gone to church my whole life, I must be good. And, as I said, god uses marriage problems to cause us to really see where he need him, not just a fake kind of relationship where he I mean this guy could have told you and I that he could have taught our Sunday school right. He could have told us all of the Bible stories. He knew them all. But what this situation in their marriage revealed was that he assumed he was good. He had never actually made a decision to give his heart to Jesus, to make Jesus the Lord of his life and to accept the forgiveness that comes with that decision.
Speaker 3:
And I think his wife was such an integral part of him, turning his heart over to the Lord, completely asking Jesus to be a savior, because she was the vehicle that God was using to show his love for him.
Speaker 4:
And she had been committed to a covenant relationship before any of this all came out. So she had made a commitment to the relationship, right? I heard that you're saying yeah.
Speaker 3:
And it's so amazing. No matter, you know, whoever is listening right now, whatever situation you're in, a lot of people are very hurt by what their spouse is doing. The sin is very hurtful. However, when we can love our spouse with a Jesus kind of love, when we love them the most, when they deserve it the least, that will bring your spouse's heart to Christ. And that's what we saw with this couple and I've seen it with David too, when I met my worse and he leans into me and he chases me, he pursues me. I see God's love.
Speaker 3:
Yes because, that's what it doesn't make me want to run and make me want to run to God.
Speaker 4:
Yes, because that's what Jesus does for us. He pursues us even when we're at our worst right.
Speaker 3:
And it changes everything. It starts a redemptive. It starts a redemptive culture within our home and then, because we're going to be sinned against, it's going to happen again between us and our spouse. And so, when it happens, we've got this culture of forgiveness already in place. And it's not easy. It's what we're called to and God's way is always best. And then we see the fruit of it when we follow it.
Speaker 2:
Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:
Which one of the big pieces of fruit that came out of this is. He goes from being a guy who's basically like a Pharisee right, he knew all the rules so someone who's now wanting a relationship with Jesus. He's a true believer, but he's also now acting in love, reflected of what he's getting from God and his wife. The story doesn't end there, though. Now this couple did have an amazing healing in their marriage. I think one of the things that was as powerful was that God used what happened in their marriage for a much larger purpose. We have seen through our own marriage that God actually creates marriage for a very specific purpose and it's not to just please David or Tracy or you or I. He has a greater purpose for marriage, and I look in Ephesians 5 and we see this analogy between a husband and a wife and Jesus and the church. It's referred to as this great mystery. You probably know the passage I'm talking about here. So the question that we have to wrestle with is is our marriage actually a walking testimony of a Jesus kind of love? Because there's a world that desperately needs to know what that looks like. Well, this couple, as far as testimonies go, had a doozy. I mean. This is one that they could see, something that the world would have.
Speaker 1:
Anyone in the world Christian, non-christian, all would have said write that off, but that wasn't what happened, right?
Speaker 1:
She loved him in a way that he didn't deserve.
Speaker 1:
His heart changed in a way that that nothing else could have, so they made a bold move and started to share this with other people about what God had done, and they continue to actually do that today, but one of the things that's interesting for us is that we have had the honor of a number of their different people they're in their sphere of influence come and seek biblical help for their own marriage, because this couple's been brave enough to say, yeah, I was once broken, and again.
Speaker 1:
Not that we're ever healed. This side of heaven, right, but God did something in my heart and in my marriage that only God could do, and I think there are people that would say my marriage is too bad to be restored. There is no redemption possible here, and sometimes I think a spouse one spouse might hold on hope longer than the other. The point of all of this, though, is that what God is capable of doing is so much more I think we in this world can often conceive, no matter the state of your marriage. If you recognize that God has a covenant love for you, it begins possible for you to see that he has a covenant love for your spouse and he might use you in the process of showing them that.
Speaker 2:
Amen. I appreciate your testimony so much. I want to encourage our listeners. You may right now be hearing some of this testimony and thinking I want to have a covenant love for my spouse that I don't currently have. I just want to encourage you to surrender your marriage to the Lord and ask him to show you how to love, not because your spouse deserves it, but because you said you would in a covenant way. You may have been listening to this testimony and you realize that you may be saying I'm like that man that David and Tracy talked about. I've been religious my whole life, but I'm not sure that I've ever really surrendered my life to Jesus Christ. I would encourage you to know that if you can surrender your life to Jesus Christ, you will be transformed. If you surrender your marriage to Jesus Christ, your marriage will be transformed An amazing testimony to the redemptive power of God. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Speaker 1:
Happy to, happy to. We've gotten a front row seat to see God do amazing things.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for joining us here on the Vision Driven Marriage Podcast and spending this time with us. We continue to pray that God will solidify your marriage.