Home Care Isn't the Last Step - It's Often the Smartest First One with Jon Thomas

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Transcript

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:02]:
Hi everyone, welcome to Steadfast Care Planning where we plan for care to live well. I'm Kelly Augspurger, long-term care insurance specialist and your guide. With me today is Jon Thomas, VP of National and Strategic Accounts at Amada Senior Care. Welcome, Jon. Thanks so much for being here.

Jon Thomas [00:00:18]:
Hello, Kelly. So happy to be with you. I've been looking forward to this day on your podcast, so thank you.

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:25]:
Me, too. Today's conversation is for families and the professionals who advise them about understanding home care earlier before a crisis forces rushed and emotional decisions. So, Jon, can we jump right in?

Jon Thomas [00:00:39]:
Let's jump in.

Kelly Augspurger [00:00:40]:
Okay, well, let's start with home care in real life. Let's talk about the reality of home care. When people hear home care, Jon, what do they often misunderstand about what it includes and who it's really designed to help?

Jon Thomas [00:00:53]:
Yeah, that's an important question, Kelly. I think when people hear home care, there are a couple of misconceptions. I think the first is who should have home care? I think when you think of aging, it is a progressive condition normally, right? Most folks don't have a stroke and immediately need round-the-clock care, and that of course happens, but it most often is folks that are day-by-day progressively aging. They have chronic conditions that are progressively getting worse, and they don't get the kind of help that they should soon enough. And so it helps to make sure that their quality of life is good, that their health conditions don't accelerate more quickly than they should. Those kind of things. They don't get assistance as soon as they should, and so their chronic illness accelerates much faster. Their quality of life is poorer because they're not getting assistance. And so really, for the folks that are thinking about home care, or maybe they have loved ones that are aging, most people wait too long. And so home care really is assistance with daily life. And in the long-term care insurance world, we think of those things as activities of daily living.

Jon Thomas [00:02:08]:
So things like being able to bathe yourself well, or dress yourself well, help in the morning. Most folks have a hard time getting going in the morning, and so they need a little bit of assistance getting dressed. And that could look like a couple of hours in the morning getting dressed.

Kelly Augspurger [00:02:21]:
Yeah.

Jon Thomas [00:02:21]:
If folks have continence issues or toileting issues, a little bit of assistance using the restroom and cleaning up. And so that assistance can really range. Of course, it can look like 24 hours of care, somebody in the home with you around the clock, but it often isn't. It's assistance as we age and as we become a little bit more fragile and we need a little bit of help.

Kelly Augspurger [00:02:41]:
And so, Jon, this is not typically we're flat on our back in bed, right?

Jon Thomas [00:02:46]:
That's right.

Kelly Augspurger [00:02:46]:
There's usually this care continuum where you start out needing, maybe it's very part-time help assistance and then that may progress over time where the needs ramp up. But yeah, it could be very part-time and even standby assistance, right, Jon? So if someone is within arm's reach, that's really what we consider standby assistance. Not necessarily someone needs to put their hands on you and help you and transfer you and bathe you physically, but they're very nearby to prevent fall risk. That's huge.

Jon Thomas [00:03:18]:
That's right, Kelly. That's a fantastic point. It can be standby assistance. And some folks that have safety concerns or their loved ones have safety concerns. Standby assistance or someone in the home just to be sure that their loved one is okay. And someone is watching them as they're in the bath, or in the shower, making sure there's no falls, particularly for seniors that have had a fall and are a fall risk. Somebody that's there to provide some level of companionship is awesome, but also making sure that that loved one is safe. And is not at risk of injuring themselves. And then we assist with what's called IADLs, Incidental Activities of Daily Living. So things like preparing a meal or a little bit of light housekeeping, making sure laundry is taken care of.

Jon Thomas [00:04:02]:
So those things can be included in home care, as well.

Kelly Augspurger [00:04:04]:
And this even includes people with cognitive impairments, specifically dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, where we are losing the cognitive ability to reason and to make decisions on our own. And we might need reminders. Our loved ones might need reminders. And so having someone supervise and there to remind us to do these things can be really important. And that's part of home care, too, Right, Jon?

Jon Thomas [00:04:28]:
It is.

Kelly Augspurger [00:04:28]:
Yeah.

Jon Thomas [00:04:29]:
And companion care for folks with Alzheimer's or dementia can be so important. And Amada and many senior care providers, many home care providers have caregivers that specialize or are trained in dementia care or Alzheimer's care. And can give that loved one or that senior cues that really help them center, help in episodes of dementia where they're confused and afraid, can really help bring them back to center and help with some of those fears. But also activities in the home to really delay the progression of the disease or help stimulate their brain so the progression of the disease isn't as severe.

Kelly Augspurger [00:05:11]:
So most often this is non-medical in nature. This is most likely different from home health care, where home health care generally is more medical in nature and home care that we're talking about is more non-medical in nature. Jon, let's talk about what's the most common trigger events that cause families to realize we can't do this alone anymore? What do you typically see at Amada?

Jon Thomas [00:05:34]:
Great question. And you're right to your last point. There is a difference between home health, which is typically a nurse that comes to the house. Maybe you have a loved one that needs injections every so often, or they need certain medical procedures done every so often in the home. And so a nurse will come to the home maybe once or twice a week for an hour to do certain procedures or to check up on your loved one.

Kelly Augspurger [00:05:56]:
Yeah.

Jon Thomas [00:05:56]:
Home care is non-medical. And so one of those triggers, as you asked, is often that medical person in their life, whether it's their doctor or that home health nurse that's coming to visit, recognizes that there's a need for care. That they need that supervision, they need that assistance. So that medical professional will often make that suggestion to the family, "You should consider someone coming to the home to provide that assistance and supervision." The other, and this may not surprise you, that we get a huge influx during the holiday times. And so that often is adult kids that are going home to visit mom or dad and they recognize that they've slowed down a lot. And then maybe they recognize some safety concerns. They recognize that mom or dad left the stove on pretty long, that their cognitive or cognition is slowing down. And so they recognize it and start to consult to see what it would look like to bring in a caregiver.

Kelly Augspurger [00:06:49]:
So December and January are often busy months for home care providers, aren't they?

Jon Thomas [00:06:54]:
They are.

Kelly Augspurger [00:06:54]:
More phone calls, right? "We were just with mom and dad at Thanksgiving, at Christmas, at New Year's, whatever the holiday is, and we didn't realize how much assistance mom or dad really needs and we think they're starting to slip. And can we assess the situation and figure out something for safety?" Absolutely.

Jon Thomas [00:07:12]:
And family planning is so important. I think if you have a number of adult kids and siblings that are together around the holidays, they all recognize it together. They get on the same page and start to discuss a plan. And so I know you're in the business of planning and so you often have to get family aligned on a plan. And so having folks together at the same time to align themselves around a plan and the best plan for their aging loved one is so important.

Kelly Augspurger [00:07:35]:
That is super helpful because if you have siblings that are disagreeing on what we want for mom or dad, that can create a lot of tension in making decisions. And so, yeah, we want to get on the same page and have these conversations hopefully sooner than when that crisis occurs. We want to proactively plan so that mom or dad, our client, whoever we're talking about, that they are set up for success in their aging plan. And thinking about the right path, Jon, with this care continuum, how do you help families figure out whether home care is the right next step versus assisted living, rehab, or doing nothing at all?

Jon Thomas [00:08:14]:
Yeah, and a good bit of this, I think, depends on that plan being in place. So one of the ways that we start to consult with families is when they're in the hospital. And so, as you said, that crisis moment as a loved one, maybe they have a fall or they end up in the hospital for procedure and they're getting discharged. And that hospital, that doctor calls the family and says, "We're going to send your loved one home in 24 - 48 hours and you need to figure out what to do."

Kelly Augspurger [00:08:41]:
That can be stressful.

Jon Thomas [00:08:42]:
Yeah, it can be very stressful. And so I think for those that have a plan in place, they know that either that senior or their family knows that mom or dad are going to be home and they've discussed a plan. It's much easier to make that transition because they've put a plan in place. They've maybe talked to a provider. They understand what caregiving looks like and what it would mean for mom and dad to be home. For those that don't have a plan it can be much harder. You have a day, maybe 2 days, a few days to quickly make a decision.

Jon Thomas [00:09:09]:
And then you have to figure out what the right path is. If there are significant medical needs, maybe assisted living is more appropriate. And so you really have to kind of evaluate. And as we talk with families, we evaluate not only what's medically appropriate, but also cost. So if you're home and you could use 10 hours a day of care, that might be affordable based on what your family has and their assets and their income, or whether they have long-term care insurance. But if you need 24/7 care, the cost is extraordinary.

Kelly Augspurger [00:09:40]:
Yes.

Jon Thomas [00:09:40]:
And assisted living that has medical services on site, that can be more cost effective. So it's a matter of understanding what the plan is, understanding what medical needs are, and what kind of hands-on assistance might be needed at all times medically, but then also what's most cost-effective. And funding really is a big part of that conversation. And I think we're going to talk a little bit about funding as we go.

Kelly Augspurger [00:10:04]:
We certainly will. Yeah, I think there's a fine line between what is realistic, what can we afford, how much care do I need, what makes the most sense. And I talk with families about this all the time and I would say 95% of the time, Jon, my clients tell me, "I want to be at home. I want to be at home as long as possible." And I'm like, "I am with you and I support you in that. But let's talk about situations where that might not be possible. What would that look like?" And so we look at cost of care based on just part-time care, maybe 44 hours of care per week.

Kelly Augspurger [00:10:36]:
And then what if that ramps up? What if that's 60? What if that's 90? What if that's 24/7? And those 24/7 costs, that's when it's exorbitant, isn't it? It can easily be over $20,000 a month or more depending on where you are in the country. And I don't think people realize that. And so that is why having these conversations with your family or your clients about what is realistic and what would that look like, how does that affect your financial plan, what can your family do, how do they want to pitch in and help, and talk about these things in advance so we can be better prepared and not shocked when the time comes and you start meeting with people like Amada Home Care Agencies and figuring out, "Oh gosh, I had no idea this is how much care costs." So the earlier that we can do it, the better off you and your family are going to be in the long run. The Steadfast Care Planning Podcast is sponsored by Amada Senior Care. Amada provides complimentary consultation with a senior care advisor to find the right care, from in-home caregiving to community care, as well as long-term care insurance claim advocacy and unique support partnerships for financial advisors to address family transitions and generational retention. To learn more, visit www.steadfastwithamada.com. Jon, let's talk about the cost of waiting too long.

Kelly Augspurger [00:12:01]:
So for those who maybe are not planning, from your experience, what are the biggest risks of waiting too long to bring in professional home care into the picture?

Jon Thomas [00:12:10]:
I'll tell you, Kelly, most people wait too long. That is the reality. Most people, they struggle with the idea that they're aging, that they're becoming more fragile, and this idea of losing independence is so challenging. And I think that what's in the back of a lot of people's mind is that if I bring someone into the home and they really see how much I'm struggling, that I'll have more taken away from me, or more of my independence will be taken away, or they're just uncomfortable with the idea of bringing someone in their home. And I think what we try to help folks understand is that, "No, we're coming into the home to join you and allow you to keep your independence. To allow you to stay home so you're not moved somewhere that you don't want to move. Or all of the appointments, all of the outings that you're used to going out to play cards or bridge or going out to the salon, going out to the barber, going out to eat, all of those things a caregiver can help you with, can hop in the car and take you out and help you keep your independence, can go to the grocery store with you." So, our goal is to help folks keep their independence as long as possible. So I think that's a misconception for sure.

Kelly Augspurger [00:13:22]:
I agree. When we think about adult children, Jon, we know that they are really important in this care plan. And I know that they often try to be caregivers while also being spouses, parents, and professionals. So what do families underestimate about the toll caregiving takes emotionally, physically, and relationally? And do you have a client story you can share? I'm sure you probably have many.

Jon Thomas [00:13:47]:
Yes, I think folks really underestimate the heaviness of the emotional toll and how significant physically this kind of role is long-term, especially on seniors. I'll tell you, I was working with a family outside of the Chicago area, a husband and wife, and they were both in their 80s, and the wife was her husband's full-time caregiver. She was 100...I don't know, 120, 130 pounds. Her husband was over 200 lbs, and she was doing the heavy lifting of assisting him, in and out of the bath and getting dressed. And she was doing this for about a year, and then she fractured her own spine which led to them both needing care. She had two daughters. Both daughters lived out of state, and so they reached out to Amada and I started a conversation with them and it was the husband and wife and the two daughters and they just didn't know what to do.

Jon Thomas [00:14:43]:
Mom and dad both needed help round the clock. She had a significant fracture. And so we were looking and talking about $40,000 a month to care for the both of them 24/7. And so the counseling of that situation sounded more like, "Hey, the best situation here is probably to sell your home or do something differently with the living situation. Explore assisted living. And so we helped them find some assisted living communities that made sense. Some of them have very nice independent little homes that a nurse can come by a few times a day.

Jon Thomas [00:15:19]:
There's hands-on assistance. And so it made sense financially. But yeah, the cost of waiting, I think when you're in it and you're thinking, "I just need to get through today and then I need to get through the next day," and seniors don't realize what it's doing to their body. I think loved ones don't realize the emotional toll. And so when you have a professional caregiver and you can bring them on early to make sure that not only that individual that's receiving care, but their loved ones are taken care of and supported, it's so important to the quality of care and the outcome for that senior and their family.

Kelly Augspurger [00:15:52]:
Well, Jon, I think that is a great example of caregiver burnout. The couple in Chicago, they're in their 80s, the wife is caring for the husband. She's like, "I can do this. I love my husband. I'm gonna give him all the care that I can." But when you're in your 80s and you are much smaller than your spouse, it's unrealistic to be able to maintain that and do that for a long period of time without hurting yourself, or losing energy and just getting exhausted and exasperated. So ideally what we're trying to do is reduce that future caregiver burnout as much as possible. Physically, mentally, emotionally.

Kelly Augspurger [00:16:30]:
Obviously, there's a high financial cost involved when bringing in, especially round-the-clock home care. But at that point, you stepped-in and provided care consultation, and that's what quality care consultation looks like. And you didn't even benefit, did you? You guys didn't even end up getting that client. They ended up going to an assisted living.

Jon Thomas [00:16:51]:
That's right.

Kelly Augspurger [00:16:51]:
That's right.

Jon Thomas [00:16:52]:
Yeah. And our goal as an organization — and there are a few organizations that are this way — but to be holistic planners and holistic consultants for seniors. Because I think we all benefit if you can do the right thing for a family and make sure that that senior is taken care of in the best way possible. And so that often looks like directing someone to a facility. Maybe they need very specific memory care because of a dementia diagnosis, and home just isn't the right place. And so, we would certainly love to care for as many people in the home as we could because that's our business, but that in many cases isn't the right thing for the family.

Jon Thomas [00:17:32]:
I'll tell you, probably 70% of folks we talk to can receive care at home, and that's their goal. They want to stay home. And sometimes that's, "Hey, let's go to a rehab facility. Let's get a little bit of work in and then transition back home and we'll be ready to support you to maintain that independence." I would say 70% of the time that's the case.

Kelly Augspurger [00:17:52]:
Jon, when families are looking for home care agencies, care consultation, what should they expect from a quality consultation? And what are red flags that they should watch for?

Jon Thomas [00:18:02]:
That's a great segue from that last question. I think as you talk to organizations, really getting a sense of what the services of that organization are and what they offer. And understanding or trying to get a sense of whether they understand the care continuum well, or they're just trying to win your services. And I think there's a big difference because there's so much involved in the care continuum, in the care situation. So understanding what it looks like to be discharged from the hospital, to work with Medicare, to potentially get home health services, which most folks need as they're getting discharged from the hospital, getting a nurse to the home to do those checkups, to make sure the medical needs of that individual are cared for. So an organization that really understands how to work with home health, coordinate those services with medical providers to make sure the medical needs of that individual are taken care of at home. So that piece of it, and then, an organization that puts quality first. Ask them questions about how they place caregivers in the home, what kind of things they look for, how they vet their caregivers, what kind of training those caregivers go through. Do they get training on quality care? Do they get training on the proper way to handle body mechanics and care for their loved ones, your loved one. Do they get training on Alzheimer's/dementia? And so those things are so important. And then for us, one of the key things that we believe is very important is that the caregivers of our organization are employees. That they're part of our organization, they're invested in long-term outcomes of the clients that they care for, they become part of that client's families, they're typically with that individual through the duration of their care. They're often joining the family when they pass at a funeral. They really embed themselves in the life of that individual and with their family and become a trusted loved one. And so I think that's important.

Jon Thomas [00:20:01]:
There are a lot of organizations that use contract work, so a contract caregiver, someone that's paid 1099. They're not part of the organization. They just have a roster of folks that could provide care and they contract that work out. So there's a lot less vetting that happens. There's a lot less work that goes into placing and finding the right caregiver based on match. That could be interests and personality and all of those things if you don't have caregivers that have been with the organization for some time and are employees of the organization. So I think that's so important.

Kelly Augspurger [00:20:34]:
Having the right caregiver with the family, with that person that needs the care, it makes a huge difference. And I would imagine, Jon, there's probably situations where maybe — and this isn't just true for Amada, but I think in general with home care agencies, maybe you place a caregiver in their home, but it doesn't work out for whatever reason. Like the personalities just don't mesh. And so, I would imagine there are probably times where it's like, "Okay, well, let's revisit what are we looking for and go back to the drawing board and find the right caregiver for that family." Do you see that happen, Jon?

Jon Thomas [00:21:05]:
We do. All the time. You assume and you do your best to make a match, and maybe for whatever reason, it's just not quite a personality fit. And so there is a little bit of a trial period that you meet a caregiver if you're someone that needs care and you kind of see what the fit is. You kind of get a sense of what life together with that person is going to look like. And if it's not quite the right fit, there are other caregivers that typically we can match you with.

Jon Thomas [00:21:31]:
And we ultimately almost all the time can find the right fit. And sometimes it's not what you would expect. It's someone that's from a completely different walk of life. But their shared interest, their shared love. Just recently, as an organization, we every year we do something we call "Caregiver of the Year Awards", and we celebrate some of our caregivers that do fantastic work and really love on their clients. And we have a caregiver that's an African-American caregiver, an older lady, but she just loves veterans. And so one of the reasons we recognized her was because she was serving this veteran that was completely from a different walk of life and different interests.

Jon Thomas [00:22:10]:
But one of the things that she said in her interview was that she just really felt like this individual, he served our country and he needed to be honored. So she looked for little ways to honor him in all the work that she did and took him to memorials and took him to veterans museums and just spent a lot of time getting to know him and getting to know his life and honoring his life. We have folks like that that you just never know who's going to be the right match, who's going to be a great fit, and who's going to ultimately become that bridge of quality of life and joy for that senior. And I'll tell you real quickly, that senior, in response to — we interviewed him as we were going to honor this caregiver and his family, and he just said that he was depressed, he didn't want to get out of bed. And as soon as she kind of came to his life and started engaging with him, he was up and about, and his whole quality of life, his whole demeanor changed drastically. So those are the kind of situations we see and just love to celebrate.

Kelly Augspurger [00:23:07]:
Oh, that's so sweet. That is so endearing. And that's exactly the value of home care. We know that if someone needs assistance, it's valuable to have somebody in the home, especially professional, they know what they're doing. But when you have someone in the home that's a professional, but that also cares and has a big heart for that person that they're caring for and is willing to go out of their way to create these special memories and moments, it rejuvenated this man's life. It gave him a new zest for wanting to live. And so that is so inspiring. And even if it's not the right fit from the beginning, you have a pool of other caregivers to choose from. And that's the beauty of working with a home care agency like Amada that have not just contractors, but employees.

Kelly Augspurger [00:23:51]:
And so they are, like you said, invested in the business, in the company, in the cause of wanting to love on and care for other people. And we know that this doesn't come without a cost, Jon. We know that obviously families have to pay for this kind of care, for this kind of home care. So we know that one way people pay for home care is by using long-term care insurance. So, Jon, tell us, how does long-term care insurance change the home care conversation when it's available and what tends to surprise families about the claims process?

Jon Thomas [00:24:22]:
Yeah, that's such an important question, Kelly. And I'll tell you that real quick, as we survey our clients and probably 50% of the business that we do as an organization is funded or paid for by long-term care insurance. It is important for us and we do a lot of work with the long-term care insurance industry. Because we see it as such a valuable tool and way to fund care. It creates income for folks to pay for and receive care. As we evaluate our business and look at the folks that have long-term care insurance versus those that do not, the folks that have long-term care insurance typically start to receive care sooner in their journey. And their quality of care outcome is better. And they receive care for about twice as long. And I think one of the reasons for that, if you just think behaviorally, if you need several hours of care every single day as a family and you're going to write a check that's $10,000 a month, that's a big check.

Jon Thomas [00:25:21]:
And so if you think about physically writing that check every month versus, "Hey, I planned for this and I have a policy and that's what this policy is for, it's there to cover that cost." Psychologically and behaviorally, you're going to exercise that insurance policy sooner than you'd be willing to write a check. And what we find is, it doesn't matter how much money is in the bank. You could be a tens of millionaire, but still the act of writing that check, of it coming out of your personal pocket versus insurance, is tough. And so we're huge believers in long-term care insurance for that reason. And so one of the things as an organization we do is we try to make that process for families that have long-term care insurance easy. And so, we have a lot of channels. We work with agents and agencies like yours, Kelly. And we tell them, "Hey, as soon as your client needs long-term care insurance and they want to file a claim, reach out to us."

Jon Thomas [00:26:13]:
We've become experts. We probably file something like 10,000 claims every year at this point. And so we're filing a lot of long-term care insurance claims. We work with every single organization. And so we know exactly what the process looks like for every company, and we sit down with families and we help them through that process. We'll kind of advise them on what the long-term care insurance covers, and we'll actually advise them of whether or not it's the time to file the claim. Maybe they need help with one activity of daily living. And for those of you in the insurance world, you need help with at least two to qualify for long-term care insurance, right? And so we'll say, "Hey, you're not quite there, yet, that you're going to qualify and be able to receive these benefits. If you want the companion support, if you want the care, we can certainly still provide it.

Jon Thomas [00:26:57]:
But when you get to this point, that's when you're going to move forward with filing the claim, and we'll assist you to do that." So we reach out to the insurance company, we help fill out the claim forms and all the paperwork. We work with that individual's doctor to get through the process and make sure they have what's called a clean claim. Which means that their claim is approved the first time without a lot of hiccups. Believe it or not, 50% of the time, folks that go through the claims process on their own without some outside help either have a delay in their claim process or it's denied the first time and they have to go back through and file a second claim. And not because the insurance companies are not going to pay, but just because it's a complicated process. And families on their own don't really know all the intricacies and all the fine line details that need to be included for that to be approved right off the bat. So it is complicated, but insurance companies pay. They do. And our goal is just to make that paperwork process, that claims process happens as smoothly as possible.

Kelly Augspurger [00:27:55]:
Jon, the value of long-term care claims advocacy is enormous. Families don't know what they don't know. And so when they have a policy, when their loved one has a policy, they don't know where to begin. And so to have a claims consultation essentially with a home care agency that knows what they're doing and they do 10,000 of these a year, you guys are very efficient at the process. Obviously, if their agent or advisor is still in business, if they're still actively working, also reach out to them. That's what they're there for. But Jon, I see so often that the agent or advisor is retired by the time that that person is ready to file a claim. So they might not be able to go back to their agent or advisor to get the help what they want and that they need.

Kelly Augspurger [00:28:40]:
So going to someone like Amada that has a very specific expertise in this area is enormously valuable for the family. So they don't have to scramble and be amongst the 50%, like you noted, that are not successful the first time. So avoiding that headache and just annoyance and unfamiliarity of, "What do we do? What are the next steps?" You guys can just easily lay out, this is what we do, this is how we're successful, and this what we need to do to get there.

Jon Thomas [00:29:10]:
That's right. And Amada provides those advocacy services, and we do it at no charge. We believe that as somebody that took the steps and planned and purchased long-term care insurance, you deserve to receive the benefits when you need them. But I'll also say we're not the only organization. There are other consultants that actually full-time, all they do is help folks with claims. Some of those consultants, they charge...some of them charge charge a couple thousand dollars to help a family with a claim, but they provide a really valuable service. So we're not the only ones that help with claim advocacy, but we've incorporated it in our overall business model, and so we're able to do that at no charge.

Kelly Augspurger [00:29:48]:
And now for a brief message from our show sponsor. The Steadfast Care Planning Podcast is sponsored by Steadfast Insurance, an independent insurance agency in Westerville, Ohio, that provides home, auto, business, life, disability, and long-term care insurance solutions. Visit SteadfastAgents.com to learn more. Jon, what does good collaboration between a home care provider and a financial professional look like in real life?

Jon Thomas [00:30:14]:
I've had a conversation with someone in the industry recently who has a really audacious goal that every individual in America has the opportunity to plan for long-term care with either insurance, or some financial tool to be prepared for aging. Our mission, I feel, is aligned because we're on the back end providing care, we see day-in and day-out what it costs. I'll share from my own family. And I think for all of us that have seen aging up front and close and personal, as they say. We know the challenge, we know the cost involved. From my own family, my mom is a full-time caregiver and has been caring for my great aunt, who at 95 was still driving and got in a car accident and has needed care since then. This summer, I believe she'll be 105. And so it's been a 10-year journey of caring for Aunt Vera. So yeah, the cost of that— my mom provides care, there's paid caregivers involved. It's been an enormous cost, and she has not had long-term care insurance.

Jon Thomas [00:31:13]:
And all of us on this call, I'm sure, have a loved one, or friends have had loved ones that have been in scenarios where they've had to pay for care and they've seen the cost. Depending on where you're at in the country, care can cost anywhere from— if we're talking home care, it can cost anywhere from $20 an hour to $40 an hour on up, especially if you're in cities like LA or San Francisco. The cost can be exorbitant. And so it's something that you need to plan for. If you're thinking about a continuing care community, or assisted living and you're planning, those can be anywhere from $7,000 to $12,000, $15,000 a month. And so it's something to plan for, and we see it day-in and day-out. Folks that haven't planned, and they're at this point where they need care, and they're making a hard decision to spend money that they didn't intend to spend. And there are folks that just can't spend it, and so their family has to get involved. And it's a really hard emotional thing when your loved one needs care and there's not the financial resources to pay for it, to pay for care.

Jon Thomas [00:32:14]:
And so we're huge believers, and so one of the things that we like to do is partner with financial planners and insurance agents and agencies and help educate folks on what the real cost of care is, but also the tremendous challenge that it is when you haven't prepared. So insurance of course is a solution that I think makes a lot of sense for many people. It's not the only way of planning. I think our message as we work with professionals is planning is important. And so, we'll often engage with planning professionals, talk to their clients and tell them about what cost of care looks like in Des Moines, Iowa, or in Chicago, or in Jersey. Wherever you're at around the country, we can talk to your clients. We can advise them on what the cost of care really looks like, on what the typical aging and care scenario really looks like. To help those professionals make an adequate recommendation around planning.

Jon Thomas [00:33:11]:
And make that real for folks because I think all of us would agree that planning is important and we'd hate for our clients not to take it seriously and not to have a plan in place.

Kelly Augspurger [00:33:22]:
Yeah. And each plan's going to be different depending on the specific person's specific family. It's not a cookie cutter approach. It is very customized. And so working with your financial advisor to be able to make these decisions and come up with a plan for the future is critical. Well, Jon, let's quickly pivot to a very fast lightning round. I'm going to ask you a few questions and I just want you to fill in the blank or give me a sentence and finish it.

Jon Thomas [00:33:50]:
Okay. I'm ready.

Kelly Augspurger [00:33:51]:
Let's do it. Okay. So in one sentence, what's the biggest mistake families or advisors make when it comes to home care? One sentence.

Jon Thomas [00:33:59]:
One sentence. The biggest mistake. I mean, we covered it. The biggest mistake is not getting help when you need it. It leads to all sorts of disasters and it's better to just bring that care in when you need it. That's it. I could go on, but I'm going to keep it short.

Kelly Augspurger [00:34:16]:
That's it, Jon. That's it. I'm cutting you off.

Jon Thomas [00:34:19]:
Okay.

Kelly Augspurger [00:34:20]:
Next question. What's one thing families can do today, even if they're not in crisis yet, to make future care decisions easier?

Jon Thomas [00:34:28]:
One thing to do today is get to know what aging and senior care resources are in your community, whether it's the assisted living, the continuing care communities around you, and the home care providers. Get to know them. Get to know who's good so it's an easier conversation once you need care.

Kelly Augspurger [00:34:44]:
Perfect. And finally, fill in the blank: families are most relieved once they realize they don't have to - blank.

Jon Thomas [00:34:52]:
Pay for care out of pocket because they purchased long-term care insurance, Kelly. Of course!.

Kelly Augspurger [00:34:58]:
You would, you would. That's hilarious. Good answer, Jon, good answer. All right, well, Jon, it's been so much fun. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Just very briefly, and I think I know what your answer is going to be, but any final advice on how people can plan for care to live well?

Jon Thomas [00:35:15]:
Work with your financial planner, work with your insurance agent, those professionals in your life. Put a plan in place. And we talked really about the financial aspect, but there are other aspects that are so important. Make sure you have your will set up, you have your trust set up. If you don't have a power of attorney, make sure you have that power of attorney in place. We take our health for granted, but you do never know if that sudden medical crisis can happen. If you haven't put some of those things in place so your family can act on your behalf, the challenge increases tenfold. And so, yeah, I think for many of us it's hard to think about aging, and so it's hard to think about putting some of this in place, but it's so important. And so meet with the professionals in your life, make sure you you've had some of those conversations and you've set some of those things up.

Kelly Augspurger [00:36:05]:
Perfect. And then, Jon, where can people find more information about Amada and the services you provide?

Jon Thomas [00:36:11]:
Absolutely. Check us out at AmadaSeniorCare.com, and that is Amada, A-M-A-D-A. Amada is Spanish for beloved, if you're curious. So AmadaSeniorCare.com.

Kelly Augspurger [00:36:23]:
Love it. Well, Jon, thanks so much for your time and your expertise today. Really appreciate you. If you are financial professionals, check out Amada, check out the services they provide. If you are a family member, same thing, see if there's a local one to you. They are national across the country. So look them up online and plan. Do yourself, do your family a favor of planning in advance, so tomorrow is a little bit easier.

Kelly Augspurger [00:36:50]:
Jon, thanks so much.

Jon Thomas [00:36:52]:
Well said.

Kelly Augspurger [00:36:52]:
Have a great day.

Jon Thomas [00:36:53]:
Thank you, Kelly. Great to be with you.