Episode 137: Navigating Healthcare for Your Pets: More Tail Wags and Empowered Pet Parents

Navigating healthcare can feel overwhelming—not only for ourselves, but also for the pets we consider family. 

In this episode, Sandy talks with Dr. Kevin Toman, a veterinarian with nearly 40 years of experience and a special interest in orthopedic care, cancer care, chronic pain, and pet longevity. 

Dr. Kevin shares his candid perspective on what is changing within traditional veterinary medicine, why many pet parents are questioning rising costs and recommended services, and how the loss of the veterinarian–pet parent relationship may be affecting trust and care.

Dr. Kevin also explains the four pillars of his pet-longevity framework: diet and lifestyle, a trusted local veterinarian, scientifically supported supplements, and prescription longevity medications. 

He challenges common assumptions about popular joint supplements, discusses evidence-based alternatives for inflammation and orthopedic discomfort, and offers practical steps pet parents can take at home to support healthier aging. 

This informative conversation will help you ask better questions, separate marketing claims from science, and make more confident decisions that may give your pet more healthy years—and more tail wags.

Resources:

TheLongevityvet.com

Freevetcall

Playbook AI Partners - Your Source for AI Solutions without Overwhelm

Want to be a guest on Get Savvy...Demystifying Healthcare? Send Sandy Kibling a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/getsavvydemystifyinghealthcare

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I'm gonna tell you the truth, and speaking as somebody with over over thirty-five years in small animal practice, I'm gonna tell you that small animal veterinary medicine, as seen right now, is broken. And it breaks my heart to say that because I'm very much a relationship builder. I will confide in you that over those thirty-six plus years in in actual practice, I may not have been the world's best veterinarian, but I cared. I I when you came in with your dogs, I would give you a hug, we'd sit on the floor, talk about life for 10 or 15 minutes, and then get around eventually to your pet's care. And that relationship building, I think, has been lost.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

If healthcare has ever left you feeling frustrated, overwhelmed, or stuck, then go it's for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Welcome to Get Stabby, the mystified healthcare weekly podcast, where we take complicated healthcare topics and make some topics.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

What could you accomplish if you could gain five or even ten hours every week? And bonus, are you looking for a new podcast? Well, if you haven't heard, I do have a second podcast called Playbook AI Partners. Yes, it's that AI topic. But here's the thing: I believe that AI should make your life easier, not leave you buried in confusing tools, technical jargon, and endless tutorials. As always, I am doing what I do best, and that is demystifying those confusing topics and making them simple. At Playbook AI Partners, I deliver practical conversations, expert insights, and simple AI knowledge nuggets that you can put to work in your business or personal goals right away without becoming a technology expert. And if you're ready to go from listening to doing, Playbook AI Partners also offers the AI Mini Solution Locker that's going to give you that focused, easy-to-follow solutions designed to help you solve a specific problem and accomplish a real goal in 20 minutes or less. And if the topic of AI gives you overwhelmed, guess what? You don't have to do it alone. We also have a community called the Huddle. It is a group of business owners and professionals learning how to use AI with greater clarity and confidence. I don't know about you, but that sounds good to me. Stop spending those hours trying to understand AI on your own. Start using it to get your hours back. Check out Playbook AI Partners Podcast, the AI Solution Locker, and join us in the Huddle. I'll drop a link to it. Check it out in the show notes. Let's demystify AI together. And now on with the show. Everyone, and welcome to the show Navigating Health for Your Pets. More tail wags and empowered pet parents. Navigating our healthcare system and making health insurance choices is challenging enough, but what about our family fur members? What if navigating health care for your pet didn't have to feel overwhelming or confusing? In this episode, we're talking about how to help your pets live healthier lives with more tail wags and less guesswork. To help us get into this topic, I have Dr. Kevin Tomen on the show. Dr. Kevin has over 30 years of veterinary practice and special interest in orthopedic and cancer care. He has devoted his professional life to helping pets live longer. Dr. Kevin takes great pride in being a healer and a teacher and would love to partner with you in the holistic care of your pet. Welcome to the show, Dr. Kevin.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Well, thank you very much, Sandy. Appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. And I also appreciate all the work you put into your podcast. I know exactly how much how much labor it is to have a daily, a weekly podcast, and you're doing a tremendous service for your listeners. So thank you very much for your work.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh, you made my day. Thank you for saying that. It is a lot of work. I appreciate it. Well, let's talk about you and all the great things that you're doing. So why don't you start by telling us your story and how it has led you on the journey you are on today?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Well, my name is Dr. Kevin Thoman, and I live on the central coast of California. And as Sandeek suggested, I've been a veterinarian for almost 40 years at this point in time. And I graduated back in 1986 from University of California at Davis. And during the vast majority of that time, I was in small animal practice treating pets just like yours in California and in Colorado. But about 10 years or so ago, plus or minus, I found myself, had veterinary medicine runs in cycles, Sandy. And so in one week, I saw three or four different patients come in. These were older dogs, older cats, who had lost, who they'd been orphaned, so to speak. They had lost their human caregiver. In three cases, the people died. In one case, a woman went from living alone to being into assisted living. And so in all four of these cases, the pets were effectively orphaned as senior pets. And it just broke my heart because older pets have enough to deal with. Just like, you know, I'm 66 at this point, and you know, I get a little creaky. And so these older pets have cancer issues, they have chronic pain issues, they have kidney problems or heart problems. The last thing they needed on top of that was the emotional loss of losing their caregiver. And so it really started me thinking about how best to help senior pets as they navigate the last years of their life. And that led to an interest in longevity medicine as practiced on the human side, but uh much of what we know about longevity medicine can be applied very directly to the patients in our care. So I use a combination of consults to help spread the knowledge that I have, learn about the mistakes that I've made during that 40 years of veterinary practice, proven supplements, and prescription longevity drugs like rapamycin, acarbos, and metformin to help your pet live their longest life.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, well, thank you for doing that in all your years of service, helping um our fur babies, fur family members. I mean, they really are part of the family. But let's get into talking with your years of experience. I would like to talk about traditional vet care. Because today, I may think especially after COVID, we've seen um personally we uh as we have two pets, uh, two a golden doodle, golden retriever, and a and a spicy cat that she thinks she's a dog. But um, we have taken our pets to vet care and we have seen the prices just rise. We have seen our corner vet place that was owned by a lovely doctor that we just loved and trusted sell to a large corporation. Um I feel like every time I go in, and I'm not trying to be condescending to the care received, it's oh, well, what if you also got this or what if you got that, or join the care club, or and now you're paying $175 per pet, and we're just incredibly overwhelmed. And I guess my question to you is what is going on with traditional vet care? What's working and what's not?

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Well, the what's working part. Yeah, the what's working part, Sandy, may be a short conversation. So I'm gonna tell you the truth. And speaking as somebody with over over 35 years in small animal practice, I'm gonna tell you that small animal veterinary medicine, as seen right now, is broken. And it breaks my heart to say that because I'm very much a relationship builder. I will confide in you that over those 36 plus years in in actual practice, I may not have been the world's best veterinarian, but I cared. I I when you came in with your dogs, I would give you a hug, we'd sit on the floor, talk about life for 10 or 15 minutes, and then get around eventually to your pet's care. And that relationship building, I think, has been lost. And I do believe that the the entry of corporate uh veterinary medicine into what traditionally was a uh mom and pop uh business is in large part to blame for that, because these veterinarians are many times coming fresh out of school. There's a huge shortage, Sandy, of veterinarians across the United States. And so there's immense competition for the new graduates, and in all candor, corporate uh veterinary medicine can can pay them more than a Schmo like me. And so what you have is inexperienced veterinarians that have very seldom have relationship building skills, and they are compensated as a percentage of what they charge of the of the billings that they do. And so somewhere along the way, veterinary medicine has lost the moorings. It's it's we have lost the connection to pet parents. And uh there's there's an innate conflict of interest in there, and it makes me sad.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Oh, my heart hurts on that because as I think about that, where I went in my head was and I we mentioned pr in pre-talk, we just taken our pets in for teeth cleaning, and after you know it was done, or during the and under anesthesia, oh what maybe we offer this shot, or maybe we do this seal it for their teeth or whatever. And there's a part of me that feels like, okay, do I trust in this case it was Dr. Davis? Do I trust Dr. Davis? She's nice, she's kind, um, but do I trust her? And and and I do, but right, but I'm struggling in some way too, because is that an upcharge that's needed, or is it an upcharge because it's beneficial to her? And I hate to say that. That's how I feel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

It's a leg it it's a legitimate question. And so a large part of my daily practice these days, Sandy, to be honest with you, is counseling people as they go through some of these more involved procedures. Or if your pet um is running into chronic pain or a disease like kidney or heart problems, uh many times it's important to have somebody on the outside look in, especially somebody who has made those mistakes, who has those years of experience, and guide you because this test can is very important, but this test may not be. This can be a secondary priority for us. But here's where we're at, here's here's our goal with these diagnostics. These are very important things to understand before you walk in the front door of a veterinary clinic. And unfortunately, there are very few resources. AI can give you the nuts and the bolts of it, but AI lacks the experience and the ability to prioritize your pet's health care. So I I fully agree with everything that you just spoken about. And unfortunately, you're very much at the mercy, so to speak, of the veterinarian that you are seeing.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Thinking about what you just said is that um I think also about I'm an insurance broker as well, finding my words today, but I'm a health insurance broker. So I think about um the clients that I talk to when they're getting insurance, which is challenging as well, but it does segue into this. But the point is that people are saying, wow, it's too expensive. I've got to find another way. And a lot of my human clients are focusing on that integrated, that holistic option or uh concierge direct primary care. They're saying, I just can't, you know, be into this system anymore where I don't feel valued, I feel like a number. But I would also say that is also very similar to pet parents and and you know, trying to provide the best care for our pets. So, with that, is there alternative care out there to someone who says I just don't trust this traditional vet care system anymore? What can I do to be a better pet pet parent to increase the longevity of my pet's life?

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Well, I think there are a number of different approaches to this. And the framework around longevity that I've built has four different pillars in it. We can talk about that in just one moment. But I guess what I would suggest is that we take a step back and think, well, gosh, from a longevity perspective, Sandy, uh the current thought on longevity is that inflammation causes aging, and that aging, of course, eventually causes death. Aging itself is not a disease, but whatever you and I can do to minimize the underlying inflammation will be a huge help in extending our pets' lives. Now that can take many different forms. In small dogs under 25 pounds and in cats, the primary concern that you have in extending a pet's life is actually the dental care that you spoke about. And I'm happy to go into that in more detail. In larger breed dogs, most commonly it's allergies or orthopedics, and you and I need to do whatever we can to minimize orthopedic pain or the chronic itch of allergies early in a pet's life so that they can live longer. Now, in direct answer to your question, I would tell you that the four pillars of my longevity program for pets involve diet and lifestyle, and you and I can talk at length about any one of these, so feel free to interrupt, Sandy, whenever you like. First pillar is diet and lifestyle, things that you can absolutely work with and in some cases save money on at home. The second is the local veterinarian, and for from them we rely upon the dental care that I've spoken about and accurate diagnostic tests. The third uh the third leg of that chair is proven supplements. And these are things that you can buy online, but let's look for ones that actually have science on them, because I would tell you candidly that there's a lot of baloney, a lot of misinformation out there in both human and veterinary supplements. And then the fourth component to my veterinary framework for longevity is the use of prescription longevity drugs. And these can get expensive, but these are cutting-edge drugs that have been proven to increase your pet's lifespan by up to 14 percent. And so these it's important. That's over a year for most pets. So lots of different things to talk about. And we can certainly start at the basics and work up wherever you'd like to go, Sandy. I'm open to that discussion.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

I appreciate that. So if it's possible, maybe let's focus on the pillar about supplements. We'll certainly leave your information because I it's amazing stuff that you you're talking about here. But I want to talk about the supplements for a moment because I think we're always thinking, for instance, we go into Costco, right, wrong, or indifferent. I hope I don't make you cringe. But um our dogs are seven and eight years old. And we we hear all the time about the supplements of Cosaquin or Dasquin or whatever it is, because we you know we have Goldens, so you know, they're bigger dogs, and so we always think about that orthopedic issue as they get older. Um so we think of the right thing because as humans, we probably take a multivitamin or take a vitamin C or we take our little supplements, but you know, I know what we get our dogs is Cosaquin because we think that's the best thing to do. But you talked about supplements and longevity. You know, uh, you know, going into traditional vet, I don't really trust necessarily what I'm getting. So I'm asking you what are things that we can do out there that are that are supplement-wise, that can that are really safe, as you stated, scientific base that are going to really be helpful to our pets. Maybe we could focus on that.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Absolutely. And so what I'd like to do, though, is back up and look at Savannah, for instance, as uh as a perfect case uh because she as a golden is prone to a couple different concerns. Really, she's prone to orthopedic disease and she unfortunately is prone to cancer. Your golden retriever and my little puppy Annabelle that you saw wandering the streets a little bit earlier here are both four and a half times more likely to get cancer over their life than the average breed is. And so you and I have to pay attention to that risk. But speaking very directly to orthopedics, I would tell you that this is in fact where diet comes in. Because there are studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that uh feeding our dogs less will increase their lifespan. That's the one mechanism, that's the one lever you and I have to pull in every species. Uh if you want your dog to live longer, your cat to live longer, if you and I want to live longer, the first thing is to make yourself as slim as possible, you know? Um and then when I when I mentioned lifestyle a little bit earlier, and I know we're headed to supplements, but hear me out. No, yeah. Because I know you're thinking about moving. And so if you're building a house or if you're buying a house for Savannah, I'm going to suggest to you that that should be a one-level house. Every time she goes up and down a set of stairs, she is incrementally damaging her elbows going down and her and her hips or her knees going up. That should be a house with wall-to-wall carpeting in a perfect world. And I understand those don't exist very often. But every time she slips and falls, when you and your husband get home and she's coming around the corner to uh at full speed to see you, every time she slips and falls, she's hurting herself. And so floors with better traction or throw rugs with with rubber packs, these can make all the difference for those golden retrievers as they age. Now, uh you asked about supplements, I'm going to tell you about supplements, but here's where you and I may rank uh may disagree. May we may have to agree to disagree because I sold Cosaquin and Dasaquin for many years, for over two decades in my veterinary practice. Unfortunately, over the last five years, there have been study after study, Sandy, that shows they don't work. Glucosamine and chondroitin products simply don't work in either humans or pets to reduce joint inflammation. They work no better than placebos. And so, as you suggested, you and I could go to the nearest Costco, we'd walk down the aisle and see bottle after bottle, a whole Costco aisle that's devoted to glucosamine and chondroitin. But the unfortunate truth is that that is a marketing supplement as opposed to a science supplement. And so when we speak very directly to the orthopedics of a golden retriever or any other large breed dog, I'm going to suggest that unless your dogs think of these products as a treat, that you stop their use and substitute instead, there's a product called undenatured type 2 collagen. Big long phrase. You can think of it just by UC2. And it's a particular form of collagen that only affect that only helps the joints. Doesn't do anything for your hair, doesn't do anything for your skin, it just works on joints. But here's the deal it's been proven much more effective than glucosamine and chondroitin in study after study. And in one human study, they found that it was as effective as non-steroidal painkillers in reducing knee pain. And so it is really the first and foremost supplement that you and I should think about to naturally reduce the joint pain and inflammation an older golden retriever runs into. Then there are a couple of other things that we should understand. One is fish oil, just our old friend fish oil, works well. Fish oil alone is the basis for the Purina orthopedic management diet, the OM diet that they have. And you don't have to pay extra for a prescription diet. All you have to do is buy a good quality fish oil, and you'll achieve much the same goal. The third component is a funny thing called green lip muscle. It's the shell of a particular mollusk that has been proven to have anti-inflammatory capabilities. And number four on the list, and then I'm going to shut up, is our friend CBD. But CBD, and you live in Colorado, I live in California, and so we can find CBD on every corner and every gas station and convenience store. But here's the thing we have to understand. There was just a study done, and uh a group, a nonprofit group, ordered 17 different CBD products off the web, and they found only three actually had C B D in them. And so if you're gonna use C B D, and it listen, I mean, there's a lot of uh baloney out there around C B D, but it is proven to help skin problems, it's been proven to help dogs who seizure, and it's been proven to help orthopedic pains. If you're gonna do it uh for your pet by the L of that, E-L-L-E, V-E-T brand. I have no affiliation with them whatsoever, but they do study after study on purity and benefits of their products, and so that is the one product I'd recommend.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Well, you had me at marketing supplement versus I'll may I miss the other one, beneficial versus science supplement.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Science supplement, yeah, because I think, you know, I go into Costco, I'm getting my paper towels, I'm getting my toilet paper, I'm getting my, you know, a snack on the way, whatever it is. I got my Costco run going on, and I'm feeling good. My husband's like, honey, do we need the Cosaquin? And I'm feeling good because I feel like I'm really doing right by my uh by Savannah and Gloria in my case, my two pets, but I don't know what I don't know. And so I really no, I I don't disagree with you. In fact, I just say thank you for the wisdom because I don't want to waste time giving them another treat. I want to give them something that's going to be beneficial because I'm starting to see that slower walk, that that type of thing. And you know, everything you mention about diet and even your house, or some of those are simple things that you can do. Not for me because I'm one of those pet moms who who think, oh, honey, you need another treat. I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna own it, Dr. Kevin.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Listen, I am the same guy. So I I would tell you uh and you mentioned uh uh Glory, I think it was Glory Gloria coming in, wanting to hold your hand, and my little Puppy Annabelle, I mean, she's she's another golden retriever, she's 18 months old, and we've gotten into the habit. She paws at me when we're driving. And so I reach over and she's in the passenger seat and I hold her hand as we drive. And she's just as happy as a clam, if I as long as I hold her hand. So I know exactly what you mean when it comes to spoiling your pets, Sandy. And you know, we can talk about healthy treats versus unhealthy treats, too, because every time I get back from from going any place, Annabelle expects a treat. Now I don't know why, how this spoiling occurred, but it had certainly occurred. And so I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, what I would like to do, this is like one of been one of the most invigorating conversations and and so much that I got I could learn from on this piece of it. But I tell us more about your services. If somebody says, man, I've got to learn more. I mean, there's only so much we can cover, of course, in a podcast. But what I always love to do in the podcast is whet the appetite, so to speak, of, oh my gosh, I need to learn more. Tell us more about the services and how people work with you to learn more.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Well, thank you very much. And I'm going to set that table by saying that uh I appreciate everything you do for your listeners. And so I've created a little website called www.freevetcall, sandy.com. So www.frevetcall.com. And if any of your listeners have any question at all, whether it be about the dental care that you've spoken about, vaccines, lifestyle, supplements, please go to freevetcall.com. It's just a link to my calendar. There's no charge for a 10 or 15-minute consult, and I would be honored to help you guys. But taking a step back from that, my day-to-day business is helping trying to help our pets live longer, the pet longevity business. And so I use a combination of consults to spread the knowledge, spread the mistakes that I have made over 40 years in veterinary practice. I use the proven supplements that Sandy has spoken about, and I use prescription longevity drugs like rapamycin, acarbos, and formin. I have a deep passion for older pets. I spent a lot of time talking about cancer care. I spent an awful lot of time talking about heart care, especially in cats. I spend an awful lot of time talking about chronic pain in large breed dogs. And these are things that I love. I want to do the very best job I can to help you and your pet live longer. And so if I I work with people across the United States, into the UK, into Canada, and every once in a while in the EU. So if you have a question as a pet parent, reach out to me. www.helpingpetslivelonger.com is my real job. www.freevetcall.com is the easy way to get in touch with me. And I will help you if I can.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Oh, I appreciate that. That is awesome. Now we didn't even get just one sidebar question, we didn't even get to the the supplements that you are recommending that are on your website because I did some research on that. But you as a former having spent 40 years as a veterinarian doctor, then you these are supplements that you have studied, that you have spent time of that on that you would recommend based on your the studies that you have and the confidence that you you have in these. If somebody's looking at your website and says, yeah, I'm not so sure, but these are scientific-based supplements, if you will. Is that a fair statement?

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Yeah, absolutely, Sandy. And so what I would tell you is that there are we only carry about 17 supplements. And that's in comparison with the aisle after aisle in in uh Costco or the page after page in Chewy. But I can tell you exactly why we carry each one of those supplements and whether it would help your pet or not. And to take a step backwards, I would tell you that my journey with integrative medicine began when at the age of about 45 in southwestern Colorado, I was tentatively diagnosed with cancer, a particular fatal form of cancer called myeloma. And that was done on the basis of some blood tests, and I ended up referring myself down to the mayo clinic in Scottsdale, where we did a bunch of extra tests. And by the way, Sandy, here is the the if you're if your pet parents, if your listeners take home nothing but this, here's the tip for the day. If they ever have to go through a bone marrow biopsy, take the general anesthesia. Do not think that local anesthesia is adequate. Take the general anesthesia for a bone marrow biopsy. But the relative good news is that my bone marrow biopsy came back with a pre-malignant condition instead of the malignancy known as myeloma. And so logic would tell both you and me that the goal, one of the goals every day for the rest of my life will be to prevent that transformation from a pre-malignancy into cancer. So I did all the research back in the day, Sandy, and there was not one pharmaceutical drug that could slow that malignant transformation from occurring. But there was a spice called curcumin that has been documented to prevent that transformation from occurring. So that knowledge right there began my quest into integrative therapy for myself and for the patients in my care. So you're damn right. I have a vested interest in making sure every product that I carry is the very best I can find, not only for your use, but also for mine.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Oh well, I'm I'm glad that you're doing better, and thank you for sharing that heartfelt story. And I know it will resonate with uh listeners. Well, Dr. Kevin, it has been a pleasure having you on today. I know we could uh probably my listeners are like, wait a minute, why didn't you ask this question or keep talking? But again, we will list um all the links there so people can reach out to you. I can't thank you enough for your heartfelt and informative message today. Um I know that people will greatly benefit from it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Well, thank you very much, Sandy. And again, I appreciate everything you do. The healthcare industry on the human side is it's just getting more complex and a bigger it's very frustrating for a consumer like me. And so to have somebody like you to guide us, I mean, it's just the best thing in the world. So thank you for all you do for us typical healthcare consumers. I really appreciate your work.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Thank you. I enjoyed having Dr. Kevin on the show. As I stated in the beginning, navigating healthcare is challenging enough for us, but when we combine that with taking care of our fur pets in the traditional vet system, that is also challenging. So some great words of wisdom from Dr. Kevin. And make sure and check out his free vet call to get information should you have some concerns or just would like to have a conversation in general. I'm certain you will greatly benefit. That link is in the show notes, so check it out. In our next episode, we're talking about when dementia, serious illness, grief, or caregiving enters your life, the emotional weight can feel overwhelming and isolating. What do you do for your loved one? How can you support them and make sure they get the care they deserve? To get into this discussion, I am bringing Kay Adams on the show. Kay is a licensed clinical social worker with over 30 years of experience counseling and coaching individuals and families around a broad array of complex emotional and health-related challenges. She has worked extensively in the fields of geriatrics, hospice, palliative care, and mental health counseling over the course of her career. She has a strong passion and expertise for supporting, educating, coaching, and training personal and professional caregivers around issues relating to life-limiting illnesses, grief and loss, and the disease of dementia. I hope you'll join us on the next show. Until next time, get savvy.