Embracing the Fiction Author Journey

71. Navigating postpartum, romantasy, and time travel w/ Jessica Dall

• Erin P.T. Canning / Jessica Dall

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Juggling motherhood, writing, and career aspirations?

Join Erin as she chats with author and editor Jessica Dall about her journey from fan fiction to publishing historical romance and romantasy. 

Discover the challenges and rewards of balancing writing and editing, as well as the unexpected twists and turns of motherhood and creativity. 

You’ll also learn valuable insights into the research process, the importance of support systems, and the power of perseverance in the writing world.

Key takeaways:

  • The unique paths writers and editors take to their careers
  • Balancing writing and editing as a creative professional
  • Overcoming challenges like postpartum depression and finding support
  • The importance of research and authenticity in historical fiction and romantasy
  • Tips for managing writer's block and pushing through creative hurdles


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Erin:

As a parent and writer myself, I understand the struggle of finding time for everything. Juggling work, family, and that burning desire to write can feel overwhelming. That's why today we're diving deep into the challenges and triumphs of balancing motherhood, creativity, and a career. In this episode, you'll learn how writers can navigate this complex world? What unexpected paths can lead to a fulfilling writing career? And how do we find the strength to keep going, especially when faced with postpartum challenges or the daunting task of crafting a believable time travel fantasy romance. So join us as we chat with author and editor Jessica Dall about her journey from fan fiction, to published author, to becoming a mom. Get ready to feel inspired, supported, and empowered to chase your writing dreams too.

Erin P.T. Canning:

You're listening to Parents Who Write, the podcast that helps you pursue your writing dreams. I'm your host, Erin P. T. Canning. I'm an author, editor, writing coach, and mom of two young boys. And my mission is to help you prioritize your writing, strengthen your voice, and gain confidence and direction so that you can own your identity as a writer and thrive as an author.

Erin:

Hey friend! Welcome to Parents Who Write. Today I have with me Jessica Dall who is an author and editor of historical fiction, romance, and romanticy, some of my favorite genres. Let's just dive right in. How did you get from, I don't know, what, preschool to being an author. No, really. Where does your writing journey begin?

Jessica:

Preschool is actually not too far off. But it was always more a hobby thing where, um, my friend got really into fan fiction in middle school. And so I sort of jumped on the board where we wrote Harry Potter fan fiction together.

Erin:

Love it.

Jessica:

In high school, I moved into what I have creatively termed, um, I can't believe it's not fan fiction, where it was a bunch of kids at a magic school that was totally not Hogwarts, fighting people who aren't wizards. So it's not Harry Potter.

Erin:

Uh huh.

Jessica:

And so I moved into that, and then from there it sort of became more and more focused on, um, original writing. Um, I got a internship at a small press, um, in college actually. And I think that's when I finally was like, Hey, I could make this hobby like a job. I was, um, basically a slush pile reader. Um. For people who don't know, that's when you don't have an agent and you send in something to a publisher, they put it in the slush pile. And interns like me get to read it and sort of go, this isn't what we're looking for. Maybe this is something the acquisitions editor wants to see. All that sort of stuff. In college, it sort of went to, Hey, I could actually try to be a writer, along with being an editor, and that is around when I started, like, actually full on, this is what I want to do. Before that, I was originally pre law and was planning on going to law school. But I don't think that was right for me.

Erin:

I originally wanted to be an archaeologist. I wanted to be Indiana Jones. When I tried to go to school for that, they were like, well, really, you go to school for being an anthropologist, which is funny because Adaline in my main series is an anthropologist. So, little hallmark there to my original desire to be Indiana Jones. Um, I love, I love when pieces of ourselves crop up into our books. Um, so that's cool that you did the whole slush pile thing. When did you become an editor? Where did that fall into the, into the mix?

Jessica:

Um, well, my internship was really great, but since it was such a small press that I got to sort of move between departments where I did like a section where I helped the layout people. I did a section where I helped, um, edit tutorial and part with marketing and that sort of thing. I always loved writing, and I had sort of a good ear for it. Um. Where there are some people who are very, very technical and they've taken all the classes and learn it all. And at this point I've learned it all because I sort of fell into, but I fell into it backwards where, um, I read a ton and could tell you this doesn't sound right. I can't tell you why it doesn't sound right, but it doesn't sound right. Um, and so I did very well in editorial, even though I didn't really have any formal training in it. And so I sort of tumbled into learning on the back end while I was doing it. I joke. It's sort of the apprentice model like old school where you have some aptitude for it, and then you just sort of learn on the job. And so, um, I now do content editing is my main editorial work.

Erin:

Mm hmm. I love it. So I wanted to be a writer, and I went to school for my, my bachelor's is in literature. And then I didn't actually understand how to get a job after school and how to earn money as a writer, so I became an editor and, um, found out that, that being an editor and a writer not the same thing. And so I managed to get my first editing job because they didn't require an editing test. And then I thought I was going to get fired within the first three months because I realized that I was terrible with grammar. It was mortifying. And so I did a crash course on grammar and I had an amazing, uh, amazing mentor and amazing boss who was very patient with me, and I, I started working out on a science magazine, so she was great. I kept the job. Full disclosure, I finally left there as a managing editor. So I moved up. And I took courses, and I, but I learned it backwards. I got the job first and then I had to learn all the editing. Um, so that's been fun.

Jessica:

Yeah, but it's so true that editorial and, uh, writing are entirely different skill sets where I have one friend who, um, is a coworker, and she is an amazing line editor, like she will find every single problem. She will rework the sentence you wrote. And it's beautiful. She said she tried to write her own novel, and she was like, is this as bad as I think it is? And I read it a little. I'm like, well, you could make something with it. She's like, yeah, it's bad. So it's just a different, like, skill set that amazing editors can be awful writers. Amazing writers can be awful editors. And then you can work in between the two.

Erin:

So I'm a line editor now, and I love doing all of that stuff. Sentences are like puzzle pieces to me now. And I've taken tons of classes, so I'm very anal retentive. But, yeah, being a line editor actually stopped me from writing for, for several, more than a decade because my brain had switched gears, and I couldn't get past the editor in me. I couldn't shut her up and say, dude, take a backseat. Let the writer drive and get the story out and make it happen. So that, um, that shift was a challenge, but yay for you. I love that you do content editing. That's fun. Um, so. Talk to me about writing. When I met you, it was at the Gaithersburg Book Festival, and, um, I picked up your book Forever Bound, which I finally got through my TBR reading pile and I read it and I loved it. I consumed it, I think within three days. But when I met you, you were pregnant. So how has it, how did your writing shift with, you know, finishing your novel before having a child, and now, now you've got a bebe. Well, not so much a bebe anymore, right? Toddler now.

Jessica:

Yeah, a toddler, and my story is that she was born the day I got content edits back for one of my books, uh, Stars of Heaven, where, um, I was, like, in the hospital, 41 weeks pregnant. And my, uh, my content editor with my publisher was like, Oh, sorry, we got delayed. Here's your edit back in your editorial notes. And I was like, um, just so you know, I am literally in the hospital. It may be a little time before I can get this back to you.

Erin:

Yes.

Jessica:

And so, uh, yeah, and I mean, I had awful, awful postpartum depression after, um, giving birth and everything. I was so lucky that my publisher was understanding because it was a good six months before I could touch anything again. I was like, I am underwater. I can't do anything now.

Erin:

You know what, though? I give you so much credit for acknowledging that you had severe postpartum depression, and that you gave yourself space to recuperate, to recover, to heal, to do whatever it is that you needed to do to address that. Um, and then after that, the fact that you still managed to go back to writing because I had undiagnosed anxiety post birth. Because all the questions were like, are you blue and sad and da da da. It wasn't like, are you screaming every five seconds and feel like your heart is racing constantly? So I didn't write for, uh, honestly, like five to six years between the birth of both of my children. So, uh, I just, I just wanted to say that it's really cool that you were able to get back to it even within six months.

Jessica:

I was really, uh, lucky that I had a wonderful support system, um, for my depression where my husband went above and beyond where he was basically taking care of a no newborn and me, where I could barely get out of bed. And my mom flew out from California and was helping and so that was wonderful. Um, and I mean, my OB was on it like right away because of course, as you're saying, they give all the little questionnaires and they like flagged me right away. Um, but yeah, your experience. I have a lot of friends who had postpartum anxiety. Um, some who've had postpartum rage, and just you don't hear about that nearly as much as postpartum depression.

Erin:

You're right. So, I definitely had rage. And I didn't know what was wrong with me, right? I had never been a screamer, so I joined a peaceful parenting workshop to be like, okay, what's going on? And that was the first time that somebody had said that rage actually masks anxiety. And that's when it clicked. And I was like, Oh my God, I am terrified all the time because I had a traumatic first birth. I was just anxious all the time and was screaming all the time. I can talk about it now because of the fact, like you said, people don't talk about it.

Jessica:

Yeah. I didn't know about it until one of my friends was having the same issue where she's just like, I'm screaming at my husband all the time. He's not even doing anything. And then you learn sort of in these mom networks that there's all these other fun things that hormones can do to you that no one talks about because they're all talking about depression.

Erin:

Exactly. So, how did your writing change after having your kiddo, after getting through the postpartum depression and finally getting back to finishing that next book?

Jessica:

The book after that is, um, A Dangerous Beauty. It was an interesting one to write because my publisher was going like, are you writing anything right now? And I was like, I've got my head above water. It's not that far above water. So I don't really have anything completed. And they're like, well, we wanted to try out this new platform. And so, um, I had A Dangerous Beauty, which I've been working on. It's set in St. Mary's, Maryland, um, during the early colonial period. As a history nerd, I just found it a very interesting time period and it probably would be a good one to write, because either it's going to be a crazy long single book, or it's going to be two volumes of something. Basically, the first book was the serialized part of Vella. Um, I am still struggling a bit on getting a second part written. Part of that, I think, is because it got so much of that depression and anxiety, sort of, in the characters, where, um, the protagonist in it is a woman who's dealt with a lot of, um, sort of trauma around, uh, those topics. And so the second part, she's supposed to be pregnant again, but I was just getting so into that dark headspace of her spiraling because she'd had such a bad time. Maybe if I have a little bit more distance, I'll be able to actually write it without it. Um, I, my husband and I joke that it's called the Katniss problem, where when you break a character too much, and it's really hard for them to be proactive at that point. And I'm like, I need to save her from the Katniss problem, where she's just a little too broken right now.

Erin:

I love that you refer to it as the Katniss problem. That's a great reference. Um, so let's talk about that research. Uh, as I said, I've read Forever Bound, and that one involves time travel. That is a tricky topic to cover in writing. What tips and tricks do you have with that? Because, oh, the writers out there who don't have a content editing background or a line editing background, who know how to track all of this and everything, how do you go about making that a bit more manageable for your brain?

Jessica:

Um, well, I feel like for my version of time travel, I skirt some issues in that the present day characters aren't affecting the past. They're sort of playing out. Like, it's a determinism sort of version of, uh, time travel. And so you don't have to get into a, what if they step on a butterfly or become their own grandparent sort of Time Paradox going on. Um, but what I found very helpful where I wrote Forever Bound, not long after one of my other author friends, uh, Erika Lectine, um, wrote, um, her series, which is called the Flames of Time series. It's more young adult, new adult, but again, that romance time travel sort of thing. And we just basically spent some time like quizzing each other on our own. Like, but what if this happens? But what if this happens? And I think you sort of need to go through all the different what ifs.

Erin:

Mm hmm.

Jessica:

Um, especially where it was like, okay, so your characters actually like jump multiple places in time. How are they supporting themselves if they get lost in a thing? And she's like, oh, well, they could just deal their own antiques. And I'm like, but I've watched Pawn Stars, and they have like patina experts and stuff. If they just brought something from the 1600s to today, it would be new, wouldn't it? And so we had to like work out all these little like, okay, so they have a safety deposit box. They can put antiques in so that they age. But you need someone who's poking holes at all of your time travel until you. There's always going to be something that, especially in today's culture where you have Reddit subs and forums and every and you have the entire world poking holes at big properties. There's going to be something that someone catches you out about. But at least if you spend a lot of time playing the what if game, it helps a lot to have it solidly built to start with.

Erin:

So I love that. That's 100 percent true. I know personally because I have magic in my world. And so I had to have a conversation with my husband and say, okay, I think my magic's going to work this way. And then he'd say, okay, well then, does everybody have access to magic? Why do some people have access to magic and other people don't? How does it work if this happens? Or how is it misused this way? Or how are you going to prevent your main character from getting way too powerful? And so I was like, okay, what are the conditions around it? And so it's, it's extremely important to ask the what if games and also if this is true, what are the potential consequences of that? So I love that you were having that conversation. Uh, and then, considering that you write both romanticy and then also historical fiction, how do you incorporate research into your writing? Do you tend to do a massive amount of research first? And does that work block you from getting your writing done, or do you kind of make a list of the things that you need to research as you're getting your rough draft out on the page? What, what method seems to work best for you?

Jessica:

Well, my first straight historical fiction novel was The Stars of Heaven. It's based during the 1755 Lisbon earthquake, which I joke is the most important historical event no one has ever heard about. My husband and I were playing Assassin's Creed, of all things, and there's a part of the game where, like, you take the little MacGuffin from the game, and all of Lisbon starts crashing down around you. The game is like sci fi historical ish. Um, but they generally don't like destroy cities for no discernible reason. And so I found out about the Lisbon earthquake and was like, I have never heard about this. I'm a history nerd, and I know nothing about Portuguese history. This is fascinating. So I started into this like deep dive about this historical event. And for that one, it took years, honestly, because I had just fallen down this hole of, I know nothing about this. I think it worked very well but it's also not necessarily sustainable to write every book over six years sort of thing. So what I do these days that seems a nice balance between tripping yourself up, because you're spending too much time getting a fake PhD in the topic, um, it is that, um, I tend to try to find like a pretty comprehensive, uh, book about my topic, whatever it is. I'm currently working on one set in World War One, and so sort of found like a book about the Western Front to who's where, what's happening where. And then once you have the major events and players, you, I then make a list of like, as I'm writing, things to write about, um, which seems to be, um, helpful because you're writing forward. And then you don't need to spend, you know, a year studying historical undergarments for the one scene where they're getting dressed. You just need to like then Google like, what sort of underwear do they have? Um, and so that way you're not writing into a corner where you said they met George Washington, but he was currently in Canada or whatever. So you sort of end up in the middle where you have enough to not go off the rails, but not so much that you're spending years and years and years studying one book.

Erin:

That was one of my biggest breakthroughs. Remember my trouble with being a line editor and not being able to write my story. I finally gave myself permission to write that shitty first draft and just get the ideas down. And my biggest discovery for me was using brackets and a yellow highlighter to make sure I didn't lose it, where it was like, insert clothing description here. Great, keep writing. Let me get the plot down and the characters, you know? Insert discussion about food here. Describe castle here. And so, like you said, I was able to get my first draft down without getting hung up on, but I don't know castle structures and descriptions of architecture and whatnot.

Jessica:

Yeah. Description is entirely my Achilles heel. Like, I am a dialogue strong writer, and I have to then go back. I definitely do the brackets, um, where my joke with Foreverbound is that my editor sent it back probably four or five times going, more description, um. And especially she wanted more description about the romantic lead. And I'm like, you're objectifying my character. And she's like, it's a romance novel. Write how hot he is. And so I have brackets anytime I do. Yeah. Anytime I have new like romancy things, I'm just like sexy romance description here. And then I keep.

Erin:

So, uh, in my first book, Ruins and Redemption, there's a bridge that a lot of events take place on. And Adaline describes it as the Rialto Bridge, um, because she's from our world. And, um, the amount of research that I had to do into like looking at how is the Rialto bridge made and like the covered tops and what is the balustrade versus the balusters versus the incline and like all these different bridge terminology. And I rewrote the paragraph describing that bridge, I can't even tell you how many times, to make sure that it, it gave a feel and not just technical terms that people would be like, Oh my God, this is boring as all hell. Fun times. Thank God for brackets

Jessica:

yeah, and then you definitely have to find that balance where, um, for Forever Bound, the main character, Bridget, is making a castle hotel from a, Uh, like, neo gothic building, so it's a newer version of a gothic structure and then has an actual medieval keep on the property. And so, all of a sudden, I was like, Oh, but there's these cool historic facts about it, and my editor's also like, but no, people don't need to know that the staircase is turning clockwise so you can fight with your right hand down. I'm kind of like, okay, but it's a cool fact, and I learned it for this.

Erin:

That is a really cool fact. I love that. That's a great thing to add in your newsletter for people about, here's this really cool thing that I researched while writing my next book. Um, fun side note about Forever Bound. I appreciate so much the authenticity that you put into there. So it takes place in Ireland. And, um, my father is obsessive compulsive when it comes to feeding me throughout my entire childhood Irish facts. So, um, he speaks Irish. He has marched in every single St. Patrick's Day parade I could ever think of. He spent my childhood marching around my backyard, practicing the bagpipes. So there was a scene in the book where, in the beginning, she gets that, that journal, diary, that book. And she's like, Oh, it's written in Gaelic. And I was like, nope. The main character is not from Ireland. It's okay. And we're gonna, we're gonna keep going. And then later on, Liam corrected her, and he's like, it's Irish, not Gaelic. And I was like, yes. So well done you on getting that correct. And so it is really hard where people will find stuff to trip you up on. Um, but you got that fact. And so I wanted you to know that I was very happy and very proud of you that they speak Irish, not Gaelic. Um, so

Jessica:

Yes, thank you. Where I had several, uh, beta readers being helpful. Where I knew that one, luckily. I, uh, Forever Bound was actually inspired. In 2019, I got a chance to, uh, go to Ireland, uh, for nine days, and we stayed in a couple of castle hotels, which is sort of the impetus. And of course you can read all the slang sites and all those fun things, but then you get into, like, well, they live in Denigal, so are they going to say this, or is that a Dublin term versus a Cork term versus, and so I was very lucky that, um, I was able to connect online with, um, a couple Irish beta readers, um, one who's Scottish, and she's like, I'll at least help some things. Um. And so that way I got things where I didn't know that Tylenol wasn't called Tylenol. That like. I figured maybe the brand name was different, but it's also, it's parataminosol or something like that, rather than acetaminophen. And so I'm like, even the generic is different. What? And so I had to like change that. And then they're like, Oh, and it comes in like little foils, not in a bottle. And I was just like, you see, this is the stuff I wouldn't know. So thank you. And so I like did my best where uh, 'cause I really, Bridget isn't an ugly American. But she is very, I I, I made her more like, she's not that interested in it. She just likes the castle, feels

Erin:

Yes.

Jessica:

and that way, eh. And then that way she could get more explanation, which is helpful, I think, to the reader. Um, but I didn't want the book to be ugly American. Like, I just don't happen to know what that is.

Erin:

Right. I love that. So that is such an important thing to point out to our listener here. And it's, if you are writing anything with characters from other countries, definitely advisable to find beta readers from those countries who can help fill in those details. Also for sensitivity reasons, you know, you don't want to hit those sensitive stereotypes that would, um, you know, rubbed readers the wrong way. And you don't even know if you're enforcing a stereotype or not, right? So it, yeah, kudos, kudos to you. You did great. And so yeah, even me as an American was just like, yes, she got it. I was curious though, if you have an Irish background.

Jessica:

I have, um, pretty much Bridget's background of my grandfather was very proud of. And so, um, most of that family is even Scots Irish. And so my, uh, my husband always jokes. He's like, you're the Irish people who chased out the actually Irish people. And so like, we have some like Northern Irish background, but it's more of the like, in the 1700s, they were there and then came to the U. S. sort of Irish, rather than anything directly tying.

Erin:

That's okay. I love it. I love that you pulled a lot of Bridget into you for that, which. Was Forever Bound your first book that you published? Like, of your three main flagship books, is Forever Bound, the first one?

Jessica:

Uh, it is Stars of Heaven, Forever Bound, Dangerous Beauty.

Erin:

So I came in in the middle. Okay, so before we go, all of your contact information is available in the show notes, but do you have any last advice that you would like to give our listener? Um, whether it's something that made a really big difference for you in your writing career or just that motivational, let's do it talk.

Jessica:

Um, I think the biggest thing, uh, for me was the "just let it suck" idea of you can edit anything except for an empty page. Where, at some point, you're going to be writing, and halfway through, and it doesn't sound like it did in your head, and something's going off the rails, you just have to let it suck, the first draft. Possibly even the second draft. You just got to start getting things there and molding it. Um, I sort of liken it to if you're a sculptor. You have the marble there, and you're chipping things away. And sometimes it just doesn't look right. You just got to keep going because you'll get down to it, but, um, there's going to be a lot of ugly parts in between. And you just got to keep pushing.

Erin:

I love it. Especially when it comes to the content editing, you're working with the raw clay. Whereas with me as an inline editor, I refer to the finished vase. And I always say that you created the vase, the author. But it is my job as your editor to polish and make it shine as brightly as beautiful. So, uh, I love that we can approach it from two different sides to help this

Jessica:

There we go.

Erin:

So great. Well, thank you again for joining me on the show.

Jessica:

Yeah, I thank you so much for having me. I had a great time.

Erin:

And there you have it. Today we've talked about juggling motherhood, writing, and career aspirations. If you want to prioritize your writing dreams, then join our online community so you can find inspiration and practical advice now. All you have to do is search for the Parents Who Write Facebook group. Can't wait to see you there.

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Erin P.T. Canning

Host
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Jessica Dall

Guest