{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":0.0,"endTime":0.8,"body":"02"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":0.8,"endTime":5.6,"body":"[Cities 1.5 main theme music plays]"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":0.8,"endTime":5.6,"body":"I'm David Miller and you're listening"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":5.6,"endTime":10.0,"body":"to Cities 1.5, a podcast about"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":5.6,"endTime":10.0,"body":"how climate leaders are driving"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":10.0,"endTime":12.0,"body":"global change through local action."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":12.0,"endTime":16.8,"body":"In February 2022, the IPCC's Sixth"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":12.0,"endTime":16.8,"body":"Report announced a new and emerging"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":16.8,"endTime":20.4,"body":"threat, challenging climate science"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":16.8,"endTime":20.4,"body":"and potentially delaying the action"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":20.4,"endTime":22.4,"body":"required to avert climate breakdown."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":22.4,"endTime":27.2,"body":"This report raises concern about the"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":22.4,"endTime":27.2,"body":"increasing threat that climate mis- and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":27.2,"endTime":31.6,"body":"disinformation posed to climate action,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":27.2,"endTime":31.6,"body":"indicated by rising levels of societal"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":31.6,"endTime":35.2,"body":"polarization and climate conspiracies,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":31.6,"endTime":35.2,"body":"supercharged by social media and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":35.2,"endTime":37.6,"body":"threatening to bubble into the mainstream."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":37.6,"endTime":41.6,"body":"While the vast majority of people"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":37.6,"endTime":41.6,"body":"accept the evidence climate"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":41.6,"endTime":44.4,"body":"science offers, conspiratorial"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":41.6,"endTime":44.4,"body":"narratives muddy the waters."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":44.4,"endTime":49.2,"body":"[upbeat music] Just two years on"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":44.4,"endTime":49.2,"body":"from the IPCC's quoted report, these"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":49.2,"endTime":50.8,"body":"warnings have proved well-founded."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":50.8,"endTime":54.8,"body":"With climate disinformation finding"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":50.8,"endTime":54.8,"body":"fertile ground in a world still"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":54.8,"endTime":58.4,"body":"recovering from the global pandemic,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":54.8,"endTime":58.4,"body":"disinformation and conspiracy theories"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":58.4,"endTime":62.0,"body":"around much-needed urban climate"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":58.4,"endTime":62.0,"body":"policies have multiplied like gremlins,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":62.0,"endTime":66.4,"body":"with cities, mayors, and even C40"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":62.0,"endTime":66.4,"body":"Cities itself coming under attack."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":66.4,"endTime":69.6,"body":"Myths, distortions, and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":66.4,"endTime":69.6,"body":"outright lies are bandied about."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":69.6,"endTime":73.2,"body":"As a result, scientists, especially"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":69.6,"endTime":73.2,"body":"women, are attacked online,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":73.2,"endTime":76.8,"body":"often coupled with alarming and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":73.2,"endTime":76.8,"body":"credible references to violence"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":76.8,"endTime":79.2,"body":"and, in some cases, death threats."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":79.2,"endTime":83.6,"body":"[sombre music] Efforts to address"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":79.2,"endTime":83.6,"body":"the climate crisis are under siege,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":83.6,"endTime":88.0,"body":"with smear campaigns often funded and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":83.6,"endTime":88.0,"body":"coordinated by vested interests such"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":88.0,"endTime":92.4,"body":"as the fossil fuel industry, climate"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":88.0,"endTime":92.4,"body":"conspiracists looking for cash and"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":92.4,"endTime":94.4,"body":"clicks, and even national governments."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":94.4,"endTime":99.2,"body":"As these narratives make their way into"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":94.4,"endTime":99.2,"body":"the mainstream, it's understandable that"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":99.2,"endTime":104.8,"body":"the average person may be overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":99.2,"endTime":104.8,"body":"and may not have the time or resources"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":104.8,"endTime":110.0,"body":"to parse through the discourse to"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":104.8,"endTime":110.0,"body":"determine fact from fiction when it comes"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":110.0,"endTime":112.8,"body":"to the climate crisis and its impacts."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":112.8,"endTime":118.0,"body":"[energetic, upbeat music] In a year"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":112.8,"endTime":118.0,"body":"where, across the globe, over 4 billion"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":118.0,"endTime":123.2,"body":"people are going to the polls, it's"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":118.0,"endTime":123.2,"body":"more important than ever to challenge"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":123.2,"endTime":126.4,"body":"and dispel climate disinformation"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":123.2,"endTime":126.4,"body":"campaigns from vested interests."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":126.4,"endTime":130.4,"body":"The next electoral victors could"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":126.4,"endTime":130.4,"body":"decide the direction of national"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":130.4,"endTime":132.8,"body":"climate policy for the near future."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":132.8,"endTime":136.4,"body":"Ultimately, climate disinformation which"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":132.8,"endTime":136.4,"body":"denies, deceives, and delays action,"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":136.4,"endTime":139.2,"body":"threatens the very survival of our planet."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":139.2,"endTime":142.0,"body":"The stakes simply could not be higher."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":142.0,"endTime":147.2,"body":"[upbeat, rhythmic music]  Today, we'll"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":142.0,"endTime":147.2,"body":"be hearing from two guests who are deep"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":147.2,"endTime":152.0,"body":"in the trenches of the murky world of"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":147.2,"endTime":152.0,"body":"climate disinformation, including one"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":152.0,"endTime":156.4,"body":"of C40's own, who's become somewhat of"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":152.0,"endTime":156.4,"body":"an inadvertent disinformation specialist"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":156.4,"endTime":158.8,"body":"through her work on 15-minute cities."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":158.8,"endTime":162.8,"body":"But first, let's speak to a"},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":158.8,"endTime":162.8,"body":"purpose-built expert in disinformation."},{"speaker":"David 00","startTime":162.8,"endTime":163.6,"body":"[music ends]"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":163.6,"endTime":164.8,"body":"28"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":164.8,"endTime":168.8,"body":"[rotary dial telephone rings]"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":164.8,"endTime":168.8,"body":"[clicks] My name is Jennie King."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":168.8,"endTime":173.6,"body":"I am the Director of Climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":168.8,"endTime":173.6,"body":"Research and Policy at the Institute"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":173.6,"endTime":178.0,"body":"for Strategic Dialogue, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":173.6,"endTime":178.0,"body":"speaking to you today from London."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 03","startTime":178.0,"endTime":180.0,"body":"[receiver chimes, replaced in cradle]"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":180.0,"endTime":180.8,"body":"39"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":180.8,"endTime":186.8,"body":"In her role at the Institute for Strategic"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":180.8,"endTime":186.8,"body":"Dialogue, or ISD, Jennie leads the efforts"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":186.8,"endTime":190.8,"body":"to translate their digital research"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":186.8,"endTime":190.8,"body":"into frontline programming and response."},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":190.8,"endTime":195.2,"body":"Through ISD, she helped found Climate"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":190.8,"endTime":195.2,"body":"Action Against Disinformation, or CAAD,"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":195.2,"endTime":199.6,"body":"a coalition of over 50 organizations"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":195.2,"endTime":199.6,"body":"working to identify, analyze, and"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":199.6,"endTime":201.2,"body":"counter climate disinformation worldwide."},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":201.2,"endTime":205.6,"body":"Jennie has spearheaded investigations on"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":201.2,"endTime":205.6,"body":"climate denialism and discourses of delay"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":205.6,"endTime":210.8,"body":"in Canada, Central Europe, Germany, South"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":205.6,"endTime":210.8,"body":"Africa, the US, and the United Kingdom."},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":210.8,"endTime":215.6,"body":"She has also helped to design,"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":210.8,"endTime":215.6,"body":"leading over 15 partners to produce"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":215.6,"endTime":219.2,"body":"real-time monitoring of mis- and"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":215.6,"endTime":219.2,"body":"disinformation around climate summits."},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":219.2,"endTime":220.8,"body":"[music continues then ends]"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":220.8,"endTime":226.4,"body":"Jennie, thanks so much for taking"},{"speaker":"David 03","startTime":220.8,"endTime":226.4,"body":"the time to join us on Cities 1.5."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":226.4,"endTime":227.6,"body":"40"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":227.6,"endTime":234.0,"body":"It's a real pleasure to be here and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":227.6,"endTime":234.0,"body":"very excited to engage your wide and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":234.0,"endTime":236.4,"body":"global network on this important issue."},{"speaker":"David 04","startTime":236.4,"endTime":237.2,"body":"47"},{"speaker":"David 04","startTime":237.2,"endTime":238.8,"body":"Well, as are we."},{"speaker":"David 04","startTime":238.8,"endTime":244.4,"body":"For the benefit of our listeners, can"},{"speaker":"David 04","startTime":238.8,"endTime":244.4,"body":"you just give a bit more background"},{"speaker":"David 04","startTime":244.4,"endTime":246.4,"body":"about yourself and your work?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":246.4,"endTime":247.6,"body":"55"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":247.6,"endTime":248.0,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":248.0,"endTime":252.8,"body":"So, the organization that I work for,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":248.0,"endTime":252.8,"body":"the Institute for Strategic Dialogue,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":252.8,"endTime":258.0,"body":"our broad mandate is really around the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":252.8,"endTime":258.0,"body":"safeguarding of human rights and trying"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":258.0,"endTime":262.4,"body":"to reverse what has been this escalating"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":258.0,"endTime":262.4,"body":"trend in polarization, extremism,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":262.4,"endTime":264.4,"body":"and disinformation around the world."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":264.4,"endTime":268.4,"body":"And so, historically, we've researched"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":264.4,"endTime":268.4,"body":"evolving extremist ideologies, the ways"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":268.4,"endTime":273.2,"body":"that they manifest in violence, the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":268.4,"endTime":273.2,"body":"erosion of democratic norms, and working"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":273.2,"endTime":280.0,"body":"on climate might feel a little bit left"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":273.2,"endTime":280.0,"body":"field if you knew about us 15 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":280.0,"endTime":286.0,"body":"but the reason why our lens really became"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":280.0,"endTime":286.0,"body":"trained on this issue is because around"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":286.0,"endTime":292.4,"body":"five years ago, we noticed that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":286.0,"endTime":292.4,"body":"the communities that we'd been steeped in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":292.4,"endTime":298.4,"body":"and monitoring, and a lot of the trends"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":292.4,"endTime":298.4,"body":"that we saw impacting public life, were"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":298.4,"endTime":302.0,"body":"suddenly pivoting towards environmental"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":298.4,"endTime":302.0,"body":"themes and situating themselves within"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":302.0,"endTime":306.4,"body":"the conversation about climate change,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":302.0,"endTime":306.4,"body":"and we began to suspect—and unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":306.4,"endTime":312.4,"body":"this has come to bear—that climate was"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":306.4,"endTime":312.4,"body":"going to become the new axis in the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":312.4,"endTime":318.0,"body":"so-called \"culture wars\" in a number of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":312.4,"endTime":318.0,"body":"countries around the world, and we were"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":318.0,"endTime":323.2,"body":"very interested in interrogating not"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":318.0,"endTime":323.2,"body":"only what that meant for the prospects of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":323.2,"endTime":328.0,"body":"climate action and achieving these vital"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":323.2,"endTime":328.0,"body":"agreements like Paris Agreement, but also"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":328.0,"endTime":333.6,"body":"what that meant for wider social cohesion,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":328.0,"endTime":333.6,"body":"trust in institutions, and our ability to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":333.6,"endTime":338.0,"body":"do policy-making and make vital decisions"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":333.6,"endTime":338.0,"body":"about our communities in general."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":338.0,"endTime":342.8,"body":"And, my role at ISD is to coordinate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":338.0,"endTime":342.8,"body":"research and investigations that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":342.8,"endTime":347.2,"body":"try and look into that from a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":342.8,"endTime":347.2,"body":"number of different perspectives."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":347.2,"endTime":352.0,"body":"So, not only, \"What are the narratives"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":347.2,"endTime":352.0,"body":"that are penetrating public life,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":352.0,"endTime":354.8,"body":"and why do they seem to resonate?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":354.8,"endTime":356.4,"body":"Who are they engaging?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":356.4,"endTime":359.6,"body":"Where do they seem to have"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":356.4,"endTime":359.6,"body":"particular resonance?\""},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":359.6,"endTime":364.0,"body":"but also, \"Who are the actors"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":359.6,"endTime":364.0,"body":"behind that kind of content?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":364.0,"endTime":368.8,"body":"And, how are they enabled by some"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":364.0,"endTime":368.8,"body":"of the vulnerabilities in, for"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":368.8,"endTime":373.2,"body":"example, social media platforms and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 04","startTime":368.8,"endTime":373.2,"body":"the systems that we use online?\""},{"speaker":"David 07","startTime":373.2,"endTime":374.0,"body":"00"},{"speaker":"David 07","startTime":374.0,"endTime":376.0,"body":"That's a very powerful agenda."},{"speaker":"David 07","startTime":376.0,"endTime":377.6,"body":"Who are these people?"},{"speaker":"David 07","startTime":377.6,"endTime":380.0,"body":"Why do they care about climate?"},{"speaker":"David 07","startTime":380.0,"endTime":382.0,"body":"How does it actually work?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":382.0,"endTime":383.2,"body":"10"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":383.2,"endTime":388.4,"body":"I think what's really important to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":383.2,"endTime":388.4,"body":"understand is a shift in who stands"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":388.4,"endTime":392.8,"body":"to benefit from spreading or engaging"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":388.4,"endTime":392.8,"body":"with climate mis- and disinformation."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":392.8,"endTime":398.8,"body":"And, when a lot of people hear those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":392.8,"endTime":398.8,"body":"terms, they have quite a narrow or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":398.8,"endTime":402.0,"body":"potentially traditional understanding"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":398.8,"endTime":402.0,"body":"of this problem that relates"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":402.0,"endTime":404.4,"body":"exclusively to the fossil fuel industry."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":404.4,"endTime":408.8,"body":"And that is still a very relevant"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":404.4,"endTime":408.8,"body":"and very important ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":408.8,"endTime":411.6,"body":"and set of actors in this space."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":411.6,"endTime":416.0,"body":"They are highly professionalized, they"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":411.6,"endTime":416.0,"body":"have a very honed tactical playbook,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":416.0,"endTime":420.4,"body":"they're quite disciplined in their"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":416.0,"endTime":420.4,"body":"messaging, and they operate through a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":420.4,"endTime":425.6,"body":"vast network of proxy entities so, you"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":420.4,"endTime":425.6,"body":"know, PR agencies, Facebook groups that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":425.6,"endTime":429.6,"body":"seem to be citizen-led, traditional"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":425.6,"endTime":429.6,"body":"advertising, think tanks and sponsored"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":429.6,"endTime":435.2,"body":"academics, so they are very much still"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":429.6,"endTime":435.2,"body":"operating in this space, but they are"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":435.2,"endTime":441.6,"body":"by no means the only game in town, and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":435.2,"endTime":441.6,"body":"part of that relates to this shift,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":441.6,"endTime":446.0,"body":"where climate has suddenly become"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":441.6,"endTime":446.0,"body":"part of the so-called \"culture wars\"."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":446.0,"endTime":451.6,"body":"[driving music] And what I mean by"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":446.0,"endTime":451.6,"body":"that is that people who are opposing"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":451.6,"endTime":457.2,"body":"climate action are not only doing it for"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":451.6,"endTime":457.2,"body":"financial reasons, so because they have"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":457.2,"endTime":462.0,"body":"business interests that relate to the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":457.2,"endTime":462.0,"body":"fossil fuel economy, but they're also"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":462.0,"endTime":467.2,"body":"now doing it for ideological reasons,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":462.0,"endTime":467.2,"body":"based on the idea that somehow climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":467.2,"endTime":472.4,"body":"action is a symbol of government tyranny"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":467.2,"endTime":472.4,"body":"and state overreach and that, therefore,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":472.4,"endTime":476.8,"body":"opposing climate action is also symbolic"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":472.4,"endTime":476.8,"body":"of resisting liberalism, resisting the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":476.8,"endTime":481.2,"body":"so-called \"woke elite\", and establishing,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":476.8,"endTime":481.2,"body":"you know, personal agency and power."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":481.2,"endTime":482.4,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":482.4,"endTime":487.2,"body":"And, as that shift has happened,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":482.4,"endTime":487.2,"body":"the number of people that are"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":487.2,"endTime":491.2,"body":"flooding into this space and kind"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":487.2,"endTime":491.2,"body":"of weaponizing this particular"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":491.2,"endTime":493.6,"body":"moment in time has really broadened."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":493.6,"endTime":498.4,"body":"So, if you think about your"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":493.6,"endTime":498.4,"body":"fossil-fuel actors on one side of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":498.4,"endTime":503.2,"body":"the spectrum, I would also highlight"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":498.4,"endTime":503.2,"body":"three other vital actor groups that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":503.2,"endTime":506.0,"body":"are relevant at this point in time."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":506.0,"endTime":508.0,"body":"The first is hostile states."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":508.0,"endTime":513.6,"body":"These are entities who have seen an"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":508.0,"endTime":513.6,"body":"opportunity to kind of create chaos and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":513.6,"endTime":517.6,"body":"division in so-called \"enemy countries\","},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":513.6,"endTime":517.6,"body":"saying things like, \"Your government"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":517.6,"endTime":523.2,"body":"cares more about fixing climate change"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":517.6,"endTime":523.2,"body":"than they do about your ability to pay"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":523.2,"endTime":529.2,"body":"your bills,\" or saying to countries in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":523.2,"endTime":529.2,"body":"the global south, \"The net zero agenda is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":529.2,"endTime":531.2,"body":"a colonial, western, imperialist agenda."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":531.2,"endTime":534.0,"body":"You shouldn't engage"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":531.2,"endTime":534.0,"body":"in processes like COP."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":534.0,"endTime":538.4,"body":"This is all about recreating those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":534.0,"endTime":538.4,"body":"historical realities and you should"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":538.4,"endTime":543.6,"body":"only work with us and you should let"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":538.4,"endTime":543.6,"body":"us extract your natural resources.\""},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":543.6,"endTime":546.0,"body":"So, there's one set of actors."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":546.0,"endTime":551.2,"body":"The second are far-right political parties"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":546.0,"endTime":551.2,"body":"and they are operating in a slightly"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":551.2,"endTime":557.6,"body":"similar way where they have seen this as"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":551.2,"endTime":557.6,"body":"a point of entry to galvanize an audience."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":557.6,"endTime":561.6,"body":"They understand that huge"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":557.6,"endTime":561.6,"body":"pockets of society now feel very"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":561.6,"endTime":562.8,"body":"disconnected from democracy."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":562.8,"endTime":566.8,"body":"They don't think that that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":562.8,"endTime":566.8,"body":"political system is yielding any"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":566.8,"endTime":568.4,"body":"benefits for them, personally."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":568.4,"endTime":573.2,"body":"And there are lots of legitimate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":568.4,"endTime":573.2,"body":"reasons why that's the case, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":573.2,"endTime":578.4,"body":"Not all of those people are extremists"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":573.2,"endTime":578.4,"body":"or even conspiracists, but they have"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":578.4,"endTime":584.0,"body":"lived through this unique period of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":578.4,"endTime":584.0,"body":"crisis and they don't have any faith in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":584.0,"endTime":588.0,"body":"institutions, and the climate agenda,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":584.0,"endTime":588.0,"body":"unfortunately, is very vulnerable to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":588.0,"endTime":593.6,"body":"attacks from the far right because it is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":588.0,"endTime":593.6,"body":"a problem that requires big, government"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":593.6,"endTime":594.8,"body":"solutions, whole-of-society approaches."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":594.8,"endTime":600.8,"body":"It has been latched on to by a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":594.8,"endTime":600.8,"body":"of these far-right movements as a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":600.8,"endTime":606.0,"body":"symbol of everything that is wrong"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":600.8,"endTime":606.0,"body":"about society and all of the ways"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":606.0,"endTime":608.0,"body":"that people are being disempowered."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":608.0,"endTime":614.4,"body":"And then, the third set of actors,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":608.0,"endTime":614.4,"body":"which is really where ISD has done a lot"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":614.4,"endTime":620.4,"body":"of research in the past few years, is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":614.4,"endTime":620.4,"body":"what I would call the outrage economy"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":620.4,"endTime":622.4,"body":"online or the attention economy."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":622.4,"endTime":626.8,"body":"So, these are people who don't"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":622.4,"endTime":626.8,"body":"necessarily have any consistent or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":626.8,"endTime":630.8,"body":"coherent views about the climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":626.8,"endTime":630.8,"body":"crisis or about climate action."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":630.8,"endTime":634.0,"body":"What they care about is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":630.8,"endTime":634.0,"body":"getting engagement online."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":634.0,"endTime":638.8,"body":"They want to harvest your attention,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":634.0,"endTime":638.8,"body":"your likes, your clicks, your comments,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":638.8,"endTime":643.6,"body":"your shares, your hate retweets, your"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":638.8,"endTime":643.6,"body":"screenshots, your debates, and as a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":643.6,"endTime":649.2,"body":"result, they are trying to post content"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":643.6,"endTime":649.2,"body":"that is as incendiary and divisive as"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":649.2,"endTime":653.6,"body":"possible, and they have unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":649.2,"endTime":653.6,"body":"correctly identified that climate is now"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":653.6,"endTime":659.6,"body":"one of those topics that really whips"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":653.6,"endTime":659.6,"body":"people up into a frenzy, and quite often"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":659.6,"endTime":664.0,"body":"they are placing climate alongside other"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":659.6,"endTime":664.0,"body":"contentious issues like civil rights"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":664.0,"endTime":668.8,"body":"or sexual and reproductive health or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":664.0,"endTime":668.8,"body":"electoral integrity, and they fit that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":668.8,"endTime":674.8,"body":"into this very broad worldview about who"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":668.8,"endTime":674.8,"body":"holds power, who has agency, and who has"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":674.8,"endTime":677.6,"body":"the right to make decisions in society."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":677.6,"endTime":682.8,"body":"And, all of these different actors"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":677.6,"endTime":682.8,"body":"are often operating in the same spaces"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":682.8,"endTime":688.4,"body":"online, and that creates a very messy"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":682.8,"endTime":688.4,"body":"state of affairs, not only for those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":688.4,"endTime":693.6,"body":"who are trying to understand the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":688.4,"endTime":693.6,"body":"nature of the threat, but also those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 07","startTime":693.6,"endTime":696.4,"body":"who are trying to fight against it."},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":696.4,"endTime":697.2,"body":"25"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":697.2,"endTime":701.6,"body":"[gentle, percussive music] Is there a"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":697.2,"endTime":701.6,"body":"difference between what people would"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":701.6,"endTime":703.2,"body":"call misinformation and disinformation?"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":703.2,"endTime":708.0,"body":"And, if so, is knowing that"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":703.2,"endTime":708.0,"body":"helpful to those who wish to"},{"speaker":"David 12","startTime":708.0,"endTime":709.6,"body":"communicate about positive efforts?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":709.6,"endTime":710.8,"body":"36"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":710.8,"endTime":715.6,"body":"And this is really important for"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":710.8,"endTime":715.6,"body":"anyone who's trying to understand the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":715.6,"endTime":717.6,"body":"nature of our information environments."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":717.6,"endTime":722.8,"body":"Really, the big thing that distinguishes"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":717.6,"endTime":722.8,"body":"those two pieces of terminology is intent."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":722.8,"endTime":727.2,"body":"So, misinformation and disinformation"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":722.8,"endTime":727.2,"body":"could actually be the same piece of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":727.2,"endTime":732.0,"body":"content, but disinformation implies that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":727.2,"endTime":732.0,"body":"there is a specific actor sitting behind"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":732.0,"endTime":737.6,"body":"that content who has a willful desire"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":732.0,"endTime":737.6,"body":"to mislead the reader or the audience."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":737.6,"endTime":738.8,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":738.8,"endTime":743.2,"body":"Misinformation – any of us can"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":738.8,"endTime":743.2,"body":"have shared, and probably will have"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":743.2,"endTime":746.0,"body":"shared, at some point in time, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":746.0,"endTime":751.2,"body":"So, we are all engaging with enormous"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":746.0,"endTime":751.2,"body":"amounts of content on a day-to-day"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":751.2,"endTime":753.6,"body":"basis and often at rapid speeds."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":753.6,"endTime":758.4,"body":"That makes it very difficult for us"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":753.6,"endTime":758.4,"body":"to interrogate the credibility of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":758.4,"endTime":763.2,"body":"sources, but if you're going to use"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":758.4,"endTime":763.2,"body":"the term \"disinformation\", you need"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":763.2,"endTime":768.8,"body":"to be able to prove, in some form,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":763.2,"endTime":768.8,"body":"or kind of substantiate that there"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":768.8,"endTime":771.2,"body":"is that willful intent behind it."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":771.2,"endTime":776.8,"body":"So, we are very careful in applying"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":771.2,"endTime":776.8,"body":"that language and, quite often, it is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":776.8,"endTime":779.2,"body":"difficult to draw a solid conclusion."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":779.2,"endTime":785.2,"body":"In the case of the fossil fuel companies,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":779.2,"endTime":785.2,"body":"I think most people would now feel"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":785.2,"endTime":789.2,"body":"quite comfortable using the term"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":785.2,"endTime":789.2,"body":"\"disinformation\" because there have been"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":789.2,"endTime":792.4,"body":"so many exposés and even hearings in U.S."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":792.4,"endTime":797.6,"body":"Congress, for example, or other settings"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":792.4,"endTime":797.6,"body":"that have shown how much these companies"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":797.6,"endTime":803.6,"body":"knew, going back 50, 60 years, and how"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":797.6,"endTime":803.6,"body":"they actively sought not only to suppress"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":803.6,"endTime":808.4,"body":"the information that they themselves had"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":803.6,"endTime":808.4,"body":"commissioned, but then to counter that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":808.4,"endTime":812.8,"body":"information and spread the exact opposite"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":808.4,"endTime":812.8,"body":"narratives among the general public."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":812.8,"endTime":817.6,"body":"It's often easier to use the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":812.8,"endTime":817.6,"body":"umbrella term of \"misinformation\","},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":817.6,"endTime":822.4,"body":"because then you don't have to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 12","startTime":817.6,"endTime":822.4,"body":"think about the actors behind it."},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":822.4,"endTime":823.2,"body":"28"},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":823.2,"endTime":824.8,"body":"So, that's very helpful."},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":824.8,"endTime":830.8,"body":"Has your research shown how one might"},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":824.8,"endTime":830.8,"body":"be able to craft a path through all"},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":830.8,"endTime":835.6,"body":"of this disinformation in order to"},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":830.8,"endTime":835.6,"body":"actually communicate the facts and the"},{"speaker":"David 14","startTime":835.6,"endTime":838.0,"body":"science and the necessity of action?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":838.0,"endTime":839.2,"body":"46"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":839.2,"endTime":844.0,"body":"So, I think it is important"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":839.2,"endTime":844.0,"body":"to make two points on this."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":844.0,"endTime":848.8,"body":"The first is that there are proactive"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":844.0,"endTime":848.8,"body":"interventions and I really don't"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":848.8,"endTime":854.0,"body":"want to create the impression amongst"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":848.8,"endTime":854.0,"body":"those listening to this that all is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":854.0,"endTime":859.6,"body":"lost and that we should get kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":854.0,"endTime":859.6,"body":"paralyzed in inaction as a result."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":859.6,"endTime":866.0,"body":"At the same time, it is worth being"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":859.6,"endTime":866.0,"body":"aware that, in some cases, the deck is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":866.0,"endTime":870.4,"body":"stacked against those who are trying"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":866.0,"endTime":870.4,"body":"to communicate climate science, or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":870.4,"endTime":875.6,"body":"who are trying to broker conversations"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":870.4,"endTime":875.6,"body":"around climate action, and part of that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":875.6,"endTime":881.2,"body":"is to do with the business model of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":875.6,"endTime":881.2,"body":"the Internet as it currently stands."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":881.2,"endTime":888.0,"body":"So, let me start with the kind of bad"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":881.2,"endTime":888.0,"body":"news and then segue into the good news."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":888.0,"endTime":892.8,"body":"As I mentioned previously, at the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":888.0,"endTime":892.8,"body":"moment, most of the digital platforms"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":892.8,"endTime":897.2,"body":"that we inhabit on a day-to-day"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":892.8,"endTime":897.2,"body":"basis are optimized for engagement."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":897.2,"endTime":903.6,"body":"The reason why they are free at point of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":897.2,"endTime":903.6,"body":"service is because you are the product."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":903.6,"endTime":908.4,"body":"What companies like Meta or TikTok"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":903.6,"endTime":908.4,"body":"or YouTube or Telegram or WhatsApp"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":908.4,"endTime":914.0,"body":"are selling to people is advertising"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":908.4,"endTime":914.0,"body":"space and that is grounded in how much"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":914.0,"endTime":918.8,"body":"time you are spending browsing your"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":914.0,"endTime":918.8,"body":"news feeds and engaging with content."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":918.8,"endTime":924.4,"body":"So, in order for that to be a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":918.8,"endTime":924.4,"body":"successful model, they need to keep"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":924.4,"endTime":926.8,"body":"people online as much as possible."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":926.8,"endTime":930.8,"body":"Coming back every day, spending"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":926.8,"endTime":930.8,"body":"significant proportions of their day"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":930.8,"endTime":933.2,"body":"doom scrolling on their news feeds."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":933.2,"endTime":937.6,"body":"And, it doesn't actually matter"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":933.2,"endTime":937.6,"body":"whether people like the content or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":937.6,"endTime":940.0,"body":"believe and agree with the content."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":940.0,"endTime":944.4,"body":"What matters is that you are"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":940.0,"endTime":944.4,"body":"there spending time with it."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":944.4,"endTime":950.0,"body":"And, over time≤ what that has created"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":944.4,"endTime":950.0,"body":"is this dynamic where the most hateful"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":950.0,"endTime":953.2,"body":"incendiary, clickbaity, unsubstantiated"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":950.0,"endTime":953.2,"body":"kind of information is constantly"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":953.2,"endTime":954.8,"body":"being prioritized by algorithms."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":954.8,"endTime":960.4,"body":"And, just to give you one example, Meta,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":954.8,"endTime":960.4,"body":"back in 2021—possibly even earlier than"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":960.4,"endTime":966.0,"body":"that—were making a a lot of kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":960.4,"endTime":966.0,"body":"public communications and PR around the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":966.0,"endTime":971.2,"body":"Climate Science Center, which was a hub"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":966.0,"endTime":971.2,"body":"of information that they had introduced"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":971.2,"endTime":976.4,"body":"to Facebook to try and steer people"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":971.2,"endTime":976.4,"body":"towards verified sources, and they were"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":976.4,"endTime":981.2,"body":"working with a number of very, very"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":976.4,"endTime":981.2,"body":"credible institutional partners in order"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":981.2,"endTime":986.4,"body":"to collate that kind of information and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":981.2,"endTime":986.4,"body":"short circuit people who had genuine"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":986.4,"endTime":991.2,"body":"questions being able to find good and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":986.4,"endTime":991.2,"body":"reliable answers to those questions."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":991.2,"endTime":996.4,"body":"And, during COP 26, which was the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":991.2,"endTime":996.4,"body":"climate summit hosted in Glasgow, we"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":996.4,"endTime":1002.4,"body":"did quite a crude comparison, but we"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":996.4,"endTime":1002.4,"body":"looked at the seven pages at the time"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1002.4,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"hosted by the Climate Science Center"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1002.4,"endTime":1008.0,"body":"and then a number of known pages on"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1008.0,"endTime":1012.8,"body":"Facebook that have a history of spreading"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1008.0,"endTime":1012.8,"body":"mis- and disinformation about climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1012.8,"endTime":1018.8,"body":"change, and we just looked, during the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1012.8,"endTime":1018.8,"body":"two weeks of the summit, what kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1018.8,"endTime":1023.2,"body":"engagement were these respective groups"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1018.8,"endTime":1023.2,"body":"of accounts getting on the platform?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1023.2,"endTime":1027.6,"body":"And we found at the time that the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1023.2,"endTime":1027.6,"body":"disinformation and misinformation"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1027.6,"endTime":1032.8,"body":"actors had 12 times, on average, more"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1027.6,"endTime":1032.8,"body":"engagement from users on Facebook, and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1032.8,"endTime":1037.6,"body":"that's compared to sources that Facebook"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1032.8,"endTime":1037.6,"body":"is actively supposed to be promoting."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1037.6,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"So, it shows you that just kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1037.6,"endTime":1043.2,"body":"emphasizes the point that mis- and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1043.2,"endTime":1046.4,"body":"disinformation is constantly outperforming"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1043.2,"endTime":1046.4,"body":"credible, evidence-based, factual content,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1046.4,"endTime":1052.0,"body":"and that is a structural problem that we"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1046.4,"endTime":1052.0,"body":"need to solve through tech regulation,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1052.0,"endTime":1057.6,"body":"through a very different philosophy of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1052.0,"endTime":1057.6,"body":"how we want the Internet to operate and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1057.6,"endTime":1060.4,"body":"how we want social media to operate."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 14","startTime":1060.4,"endTime":1063.2,"body":"So, that's kind of the bad news."},{"speaker":"David 18","startTime":1063.2,"endTime":1064.0,"body":"19"},{"speaker":"David 18","startTime":1064.0,"endTime":1068.4,"body":"[urgent music] On the point of"},{"speaker":"David 18","startTime":1064.0,"endTime":1068.4,"body":"communicating and how you cut"},{"speaker":"David 18","startTime":1068.4,"endTime":1070.4,"body":"through, is there good news?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1070.4,"endTime":1071.6,"body":"25"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1071.6,"endTime":1074.8,"body":"I think that there is tentative good news."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1074.8,"endTime":1081.6,"body":"One of the avenues that is being explored"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1074.8,"endTime":1081.6,"body":"a lot at the moment is the idea of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1081.6,"endTime":1087.2,"body":"inoculation, and that is a very similar"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1081.6,"endTime":1087.2,"body":"principle to the idea of getting a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1087.2,"endTime":1093.2,"body":"vaccine or an immunization, which is that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1087.2,"endTime":1093.2,"body":"rather than tackling a piece of mis- or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1093.2,"endTime":1098.0,"body":"disinformation when it's already gone"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1093.2,"endTime":1098.0,"body":"viral and it's hit a critical threshold"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1098.0,"endTime":1103.2,"body":"of exposure amongst the general public,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1098.0,"endTime":1103.2,"body":"is that you are already preparing people"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1103.2,"endTime":1108.8,"body":"for what they may come across, not"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1103.2,"endTime":1108.8,"body":"only online but also offline, so that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1108.8,"endTime":1114.0,"body":"when they do, something is triggered"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1108.8,"endTime":1114.0,"body":"in their brain that says, \"Oh, maybe"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1114.0,"endTime":1116.0,"body":"I should interrogate this further.\""},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1117.2,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1117.2,"endTime":1123.2,"body":"It kind of inspires that critical thinking"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1117.2,"endTime":1123.2,"body":"impulse, and you can do that through not"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1123.2,"endTime":1128.0,"body":"only doing crisis communications, and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1123.2,"endTime":1128.0,"body":"I think that's where people often fall"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1134.8,"body":"into the trap, is that they're acting too"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1134.8,"body":"late and then they feel on the back foot."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1134.8,"endTime":1140.0,"body":"But instead, casting your mind ahead"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1134.8,"endTime":1140.0,"body":"to say, \"We are hoping to implement"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1140.0,"endTime":1146.8,"body":"a new form of local policy,\" or, you"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1140.0,"endTime":1146.8,"body":"know, \"We have a big plan for a net-zero"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1146.8,"endTime":1152.0,"body":"transition agenda and we need to do"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1146.8,"endTime":1152.0,"body":"good forms of community outreach that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1152.0,"endTime":1156.4,"body":"already prepare people for the cynical"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1152.0,"endTime":1156.4,"body":"and potentially falsified attacks that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1156.4,"endTime":1159.6,"body":"this kind of idea is going to get.\""},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1159.6,"endTime":1165.2,"body":"And, some of the companies are actually"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1159.6,"endTime":1165.2,"body":"working with the climate sector on those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1165.2,"endTime":1170.4,"body":"inoculation initiatives, and I would"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1165.2,"endTime":1170.4,"body":"say they're a little bit too early stage"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1170.4,"endTime":1175.2,"body":"to have strong evidence of whether or"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1170.4,"endTime":1175.2,"body":"not they're successful, but broadly"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1175.2,"endTime":1180.0,"body":"speaking, inoculation has yielded some"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1175.2,"endTime":1180.0,"body":"very good results and it has shown"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1180.0,"endTime":1185.2,"body":"that when people come across a very--"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1180.0,"endTime":1185.2,"body":"sometimes it's called a sticky piece"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1188.8,"body":"of misinformation – misinformation that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1185.2,"endTime":1188.8,"body":"is constantly recurring however many"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1188.8,"endTime":1192.0,"body":"times you fact check it or debunk it."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1192.0,"endTime":1197.6,"body":"A lot of people we speak to are quite"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1192.0,"endTime":1197.6,"body":"overwhelmed because every day there"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1197.6,"endTime":1202.8,"body":"is a new conspiracy, there is a new"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1197.6,"endTime":1202.8,"body":"kind of ridiculous claim circulating"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1202.8,"endTime":1208.0,"body":"online and they constantly feel like"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1202.8,"endTime":1208.0,"body":"they don't have the resources to battle"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1208.0,"endTime":1213.6,"body":"every single new absurd claim, and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1208.0,"endTime":1213.6,"body":"what I say to them is, \"Don't view"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1213.6,"endTime":1218.0,"body":"things always from that narrow content"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1213.6,"endTime":1218.0,"body":"perspective, because you will always"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1218.0,"endTime":1224.4,"body":"be on the back foot, and if you search"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1218.0,"endTime":1224.4,"body":"for anything online, you will find it."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1224.4,"endTime":1229.6,"body":"What is much more important is to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1224.4,"endTime":1229.6,"body":"distill the core themes and the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1229.6,"endTime":1234.4,"body":"kind of connective tissue that runs"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1229.6,"endTime":1234.4,"body":"between all of these conspiracies and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1234.4,"endTime":1236.4,"body":"pieces of mis- and disinformation.\""},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1236.4,"endTime":1238.8,"body":"And, actually, those are quite consistent."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1238.8,"endTime":1243.6,"body":"The things that unite – climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1238.8,"endTime":1243.6,"body":"lockdown and the great reset and the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1243.6,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"discrediting of renewables and pushback"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1243.6,"endTime":1248.0,"body":"on the farming industry, they often"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1253.2,"body":"come down to these unifying themes"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1248.0,"endTime":1253.2,"body":"of power and agency and people having"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1253.2,"endTime":1257.6,"body":"control over their lives and their"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1253.2,"endTime":1257.6,"body":"future and feeling very disempowered."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1257.6,"endTime":1262.8,"body":"And, those should be absolutely central to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1257.6,"endTime":1262.8,"body":"any form of strategic communications that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1262.8,"endTime":1268.4,"body":"you are trying to do about decarbonization"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1262.8,"endTime":1268.4,"body":"and the future of the net-zero agenda."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1268.4,"endTime":1274.0,"body":"Mis- and disinformation around climate and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1268.4,"endTime":1274.0,"body":"the actors that are spreading that kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1274.0,"endTime":1278.8,"body":"content have been incredibly successful at"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1274.0,"endTime":1278.8,"body":"resting the narrative away from scientific"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1278.8,"endTime":1283.6,"body":"expertise and making all of these"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1278.8,"endTime":1283.6,"body":"themes part of the opposition platform,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1283.6,"endTime":1289.2,"body":"but actually they should be very easy"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1283.6,"endTime":1289.2,"body":"arguments for the climate sector to make."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1289.2,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"You know, the climate justice agenda is"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1289.2,"endTime":1294.0,"body":"absolutely one of redistributed power"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1298.8,"body":"and enabling communities to thrive,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1294.0,"endTime":1298.8,"body":"and actually taking all of the benefits"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1298.8,"endTime":1303.6,"body":"of a net-zero transition through to"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1298.8,"endTime":1303.6,"body":"people's everyday lives in an economic"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1303.6,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"sense, in a public health sense, in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1303.6,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"a well-being sense, and the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1314.8,"body":"tragedy of the current situation for"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1314.8,"body":"me is that this should be an easy"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1314.8,"endTime":1317.2,"body":"fight for the climate sector, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1317.2,"endTime":1322.0,"body":"All of those kinds of narratives should"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1317.2,"endTime":1322.0,"body":"be ones that climate policy-makers"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1322.0,"endTime":1326.8,"body":"feel very confident in making, and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1322.0,"endTime":1326.8,"body":"yet, somehow, we've ended up in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1326.8,"endTime":1331.2,"body":"this very surreal situation where"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1326.8,"endTime":1331.2,"body":"opposing the climate agenda is seen"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1331.2,"endTime":1333.6,"body":"as a way of empowering individuals."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1333.6,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"And, if you look at the status quo of the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1333.6,"endTime":1340.4,"body":"carbon economy and the way that societies"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1347.2,"body":"have run for the past 50 and 60 years with"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1340.4,"endTime":1347.2,"body":"the kind of dependence on fossil fuels,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1352.8,"body":"the centralization of power, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1347.2,"endTime":1352.8,"body":"way that those financial gains have only"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1352.8,"endTime":1358.4,"body":"benefited such a small sliver of society,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1352.8,"endTime":1358.4,"body":"it's ridiculous to kind of argue that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1358.4,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"climate action, as a whole, is not one of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1358.4,"endTime":1364.4,"body":"justice and of changing those structures."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1364.4,"endTime":1369.6,"body":"And yet, that communication goal, I"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1364.4,"endTime":1369.6,"body":"think, really has not been achieved and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1369.6,"endTime":1372.4,"body":"has to be a priority, going forward."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1372.4,"endTime":1377.6,"body":"And, I would also say, the message"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1372.4,"endTime":1377.6,"body":"here should not be that there"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1377.6,"endTime":1381.2,"body":"is no debate necessary around"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1377.6,"endTime":1381.2,"body":"the net-zero transition, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1381.2,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"There is a lot still to be figured"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1381.2,"endTime":1387.2,"body":"out about the pace of the transition,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1391.6,"body":"the nature and scale, how it will"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1387.2,"endTime":1391.6,"body":"manifest within individual communities"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"and countries, [gentle music] and that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1391.6,"endTime":1396.0,"body":"public dialogue is completely essential"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"in order to build a public mandate and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1396.0,"endTime":1402.4,"body":"to feel a sense of buy-in, not just"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1402.4,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"from voters, but from all citizens,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1402.4,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"and for people to really feel motivated"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1407.6,"endTime":1410.0,"body":"and enthusiastic and inspired by that."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1410.0,"endTime":1415.6,"body":"But, at the moment, we are not able"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1410.0,"endTime":1415.6,"body":"to have any of those absolutely"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1415.6,"endTime":1420.4,"body":"critical public debates because we're"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1415.6,"endTime":1420.4,"body":"sort of stuck in the anti-chamber of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1420.4,"endTime":1424.4,"body":"conversation in fighting all of these"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1420.4,"endTime":1424.4,"body":"wild and unsubstantiated claims..."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1424.4,"endTime":1426.0,"body":"and that's the problem."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 18","startTime":1426.0,"endTime":1427.2,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1427.2,"endTime":1428.0,"body":"13"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1428.0,"endTime":1432.0,"body":"Jennie, we're in a year when"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1428.0,"endTime":1432.0,"body":"something like two-thirds of"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1432.0,"endTime":1434.0,"body":"the world are in elections."},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1434.0,"endTime":1439.2,"body":"There's very significant elections coming"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1434.0,"endTime":1439.2,"body":"up in Europe and, of course, the United"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1439.2,"endTime":1441.6,"body":"States, and there are mayoral elections."},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1441.6,"endTime":1446.4,"body":"Are we seeing any disinformation trends"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1441.6,"endTime":1446.4,"body":"beginning to reveal themselves in this"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1446.4,"endTime":1451.2,"body":"context of the world having a really"},{"speaker":"David 24","startTime":1446.4,"endTime":1451.2,"body":"critical democratic moment in 2024?"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1451.2,"endTime":1452.4,"body":"42"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1452.4,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"Absolutely, and this really is a"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1452.4,"endTime":1456.8,"body":"pivotal juncture both for democracy"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1461.2,"body":"and for climate and the way"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1456.8,"endTime":1461.2,"body":"that those two things intersect."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1461.2,"endTime":1466.4,"body":"What I would say is that the four"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1461.2,"endTime":1466.4,"body":"pillars of climate delayism, as"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1466.4,"endTime":1471.6,"body":"it's referred to, are all going"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1466.4,"endTime":1471.6,"body":"to rise to the fore this year."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1471.6,"endTime":1475.2,"body":"And, to summarize those, it's really"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1471.6,"endTime":1475.2,"body":"redirecting responsibility, pushing"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1475.2,"endTime":1478.8,"body":"non-transformative solutions, emphasizing"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1475.2,"endTime":1478.8,"body":"the downsides or the so-called downsides"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1478.8,"endTime":1483.6,"body":"of climate action, and claiming"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1478.8,"endTime":1483.6,"body":"that there's nothing that we can do,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1483.6,"endTime":1486.0,"body":"so, you know, surrender or doomism."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1486.0,"endTime":1491.6,"body":"I think specific axes of those, one will"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1486.0,"endTime":1491.6,"body":"be around trying to discredit renewable"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1491.6,"endTime":1497.2,"body":"energies or claiming that they don't"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1491.6,"endTime":1497.2,"body":"exist at the scale needed, or that, you"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1497.2,"endTime":1504.0,"body":"know, people are going to freeze in their"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1497.2,"endTime":1504.0,"body":"homes if we rely too much on wind and"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1504.0,"endTime":1509.2,"body":"solar – classic arguments that have been"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1504.0,"endTime":1509.2,"body":"made for years and are being actively"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1509.2,"endTime":1511.6,"body":"pushed by the fossil fuel industry."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1511.6,"endTime":1516.4,"body":"But then, I also think that those"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1511.6,"endTime":1516.4,"body":"wider ideological claims that we've"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1516.4,"endTime":1521.6,"body":"talked about in this podcast, the"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1516.4,"endTime":1521.6,"body":"idea that climate action, as a whole,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1521.6,"endTime":1526.0,"body":"regardless of the policy, is somehow"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1521.6,"endTime":1526.0,"body":"a pretext for government tyranny"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1526.0,"endTime":1530.0,"body":"and government overreach – that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1526.0,"endTime":1530.0,"body":"is going to be extremely common."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1530.0,"endTime":1534.8,"body":"We've already seen in the US that"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1530.0,"endTime":1534.8,"body":"some of the Republican candidates"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1534.8,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"are kind of going back to climate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1534.8,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"denialism even, or talking about"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1541.6,"body":"climate action in those terms."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1541.6,"endTime":1546.8,"body":"We've also seen a number of parties in"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1541.6,"endTime":1546.8,"body":"the European context anchoring their"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1546.8,"endTime":1552.8,"body":"opposition in this idea that the EU Green"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1546.8,"endTime":1552.8,"body":"Deal is being used to subjugate people."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1552.8,"endTime":1559.6,"body":"And so, I think that that is likely"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1552.8,"endTime":1559.6,"body":"to be a central part of a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1559.6,"endTime":1563.2,"body":"election campaigning, and potentially"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1559.6,"endTime":1563.2,"body":"very resonant with the public,"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1563.2,"endTime":1567.6,"body":"because it doesn't actually relate"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1563.2,"endTime":1567.6,"body":"to any specifics or any policy."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1567.6,"endTime":1574.0,"body":"It kind of sits at a more top-line level"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1567.6,"endTime":1574.0,"body":"in preying on people's genuine fears about"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1574.0,"endTime":1580.0,"body":"their own lives and the future, and how"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 24","startTime":1574.0,"endTime":1580.0,"body":"precarious this current moment in time is."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1580.0,"endTime":1580.8,"body":"37"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1580.8,"endTime":1584.4,"body":"[urgent music] Very powerful"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1580.8,"endTime":1584.4,"body":"advice, Jennie King, from an"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1584.4,"endTime":1585.6,"body":"expert about disinformation."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1585.6,"endTime":1588.0,"body":"This has been a fascinating conversation."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1588.0,"endTime":1591.2,"body":"I could talk with you forever, I think."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1591.2,"endTime":1594.4,"body":"Your points are incredibly"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1591.2,"endTime":1594.4,"body":"well-founded and massively helpful."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1594.4,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"Thank you for taking your time today,"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1594.4,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"but thank you more importantly for the"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"ongoing work to shed a light on some"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1600.0,"endTime":1606.0,"body":"of the dark corners of the Internet"},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1606.0,"endTime":1608.0,"body":"and the information that's there."},{"speaker":"David 26","startTime":1608.0,"endTime":1610.4,"body":"So, thank you very much indeed."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 27","startTime":1610.4,"endTime":1611.6,"body":"07"},{"speaker":"Jennie King 27","startTime":1611.6,"endTime":1613.6,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Jennie King 27","startTime":1613.6,"endTime":1615.2,"body":"[music continues then ends]"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1615.2,"endTime":1616.0,"body":"14"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1616.0,"endTime":1620.4,"body":"[light, driving music] This episode"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1616.0,"endTime":1620.4,"body":"of Cities 1.5 is produced by"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1620.4,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"University of Toronto Press with"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1620.4,"endTime":1624.8,"body":"generous support from the C40 Centre"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1624.8,"endTime":1627.2,"body":"for City Climate Policy and Economy."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1627.2,"endTime":1631.2,"body":"Want more access to current"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1627.2,"endTime":1631.2,"body":"research on how city leaders"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1631.2,"endTime":1632.8,"body":"are taking climate action?"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1632.8,"endTime":1637.2,"body":"We also publish the Journal of"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1632.8,"endTime":1637.2,"body":"City Climate Policy and Economy."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1637.2,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"Our mission is to publish timely,"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1637.2,"endTime":1641.2,"body":"evidence-based research that contributes"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1645.2,"body":"to the urban climate agenda and"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1641.2,"endTime":1645.2,"body":"supports governmental policy toward"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1645.2,"endTime":1647.2,"body":"an equitable and resilient world."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1647.2,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"The Journal serves as a platform"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1647.2,"endTime":1651.6,"body":"for dynamic content that highlights"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1655.2,"body":"ambitious, near-term climate action,"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1651.6,"endTime":1655.2,"body":"focusing on human-centred solutions to"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1655.2,"endTime":1657.2,"body":"today's most pressing climate challenges."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1657.2,"endTime":1660.8,"body":"To read the latest issue, visit"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1657.2,"endTime":1660.8,"body":"JCCPE.utpjournals.press or find"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1660.8,"endTime":1663.2,"body":"the link in the show notes."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1663.2,"endTime":1666.0,"body":"[rotary dial telephone rings]"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1663.2,"endTime":1666.0,"body":"[clicks] Hélène Chartier."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1666.0,"endTime":1669.6,"body":"I have been working at"},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1666.0,"endTime":1669.6,"body":"C40 for seven years."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1669.6,"endTime":1672.4,"body":"I'm Director of Urban Planning and Design."},{"speaker":"David 27","startTime":1672.4,"endTime":1674.4,"body":"[receiver chimes, replaced in cradle]"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1674.4,"endTime":1675.2,"body":"21"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1675.2,"endTime":1680.0,"body":"Hélène's team at C40 develops programs"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1675.2,"endTime":1680.0,"body":"and activities that support cities to"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1680.0,"endTime":1684.0,"body":"accelerate sustainable and resilient urban"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1680.0,"endTime":1684.0,"body":"planning policies and design practices."},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1684.0,"endTime":1688.4,"body":"Her team leads the C40 Land Use"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1684.0,"endTime":1688.4,"body":"Planning Network, which supports"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1688.4,"endTime":1690.8,"body":"C40's work stream on 15-minute cities."},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1690.8,"endTime":1696.4,"body":"Through her work, Hélène has had a"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1690.8,"endTime":1696.4,"body":"front-row seat for many of the conspiracy"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1696.4,"endTime":1700.4,"body":"theories and disinformation attacks"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1696.4,"endTime":1700.4,"body":"targeting the 15-minute city policy, as"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1700.4,"endTime":1705.6,"body":"well as the mayors and cities implementing"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1700.4,"endTime":1705.6,"body":"urban planning policies in this area."},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1705.6,"endTime":1709.2,"body":"It's important to note that,"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1705.6,"endTime":1709.2,"body":"historically, many cities, especially"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1709.2,"endTime":1714.0,"body":"in Europe, grew up organically to be"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1709.2,"endTime":1714.0,"body":"15-minute cities and are currently"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1714.0,"endTime":1716.8,"body":"the envy of many around the world."},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1716.8,"endTime":1717.6,"body":"[music ends]"},{"speaker":"David 28","startTime":1717.6,"endTime":1719.6,"body":"Hélène, welcome to Cities, 1.5."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1719.6,"endTime":1720.8,"body":"12"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1720.8,"endTime":1723.2,"body":"Thanks very much for inviting me."},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1723.2,"endTime":1724.0,"body":"17"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1724.0,"endTime":1729.2,"body":"Can you tell our listeners a little"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1724.0,"endTime":1729.2,"body":"bit about your background and your"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1729.2,"endTime":1732.4,"body":"role at C40 and what that role entails?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1732.4,"endTime":1733.6,"body":"25"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1733.6,"endTime":1739.6,"body":"I'm an engineer and my role at C40"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1733.6,"endTime":1739.6,"body":"is really to help cities to advance"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1739.6,"endTime":1743.2,"body":"better, more sustainable event"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1739.6,"endTime":1743.2,"body":"planning policies and design practices."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1743.2,"endTime":1748.4,"body":"For example, we are working with some"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1743.2,"endTime":1748.4,"body":"cities to help them to institutionalize"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1748.4,"endTime":1753.6,"body":"some of the objectives and actions"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1748.4,"endTime":1753.6,"body":"that we identify in their CAP—in their"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1753.6,"endTime":1758.0,"body":"Climate Action Plan—through the revision"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1753.6,"endTime":1758.0,"body":"of their master plan, for example."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1758.0,"endTime":1763.2,"body":"The master plan is a very important"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1758.0,"endTime":1763.2,"body":"document for cities because it's a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1763.2,"endTime":1768.4,"body":"way for the city to concretize some of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 29","startTime":1763.2,"endTime":1768.4,"body":"the objectives they have identified."},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1768.4,"endTime":1769.2,"body":"58"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1769.2,"endTime":1773.2,"body":"I want to start with that"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1769.2,"endTime":1773.2,"body":"connection between a city's"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1773.2,"endTime":1775.6,"body":"climate plan and its master plan."},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1775.6,"endTime":1782.0,"body":"Can you speak, at a high level, what's"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1775.6,"endTime":1782.0,"body":"the importance of a master plan to a"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1782.0,"endTime":1788.4,"body":"city, and what is the connection between"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1782.0,"endTime":1788.4,"body":"the way we plan a city and think about"},{"speaker":"David 29","startTime":1788.4,"endTime":1790.4,"body":"its development and climate change?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1790.4,"endTime":1791.6,"body":"19"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1791.6,"endTime":1796.0,"body":"The recent IPCC report mentioned"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1791.6,"endTime":1796.0,"body":"that, if cities adopt better urban"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1796.0,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"planning, they could cut emissions"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1796.0,"endTime":1800.0,"body":"by approximately 25% by 2050."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.8,"body":"So, really, it's a cost-cutting approach"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1804.8,"body":"to reduce emissions so, for example,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1804.8,"endTime":1806.4,"body":"reduce emissions from transport."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1806.4,"endTime":1812.4,"body":"If you plan well a city, you can"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1806.4,"endTime":1812.4,"body":"reduce the need of a long commute,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1812.4,"endTime":1816.8,"body":"car dependency, for example, and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1812.4,"endTime":1816.8,"body":"it also could reduce some emissions"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1816.8,"endTime":1820.4,"body":"from the buildings and create a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1816.8,"endTime":1820.4,"body":"more climate-resilient environment."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1820.4,"endTime":1825.6,"body":"For example, the recent master plan"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1820.4,"endTime":1825.6,"body":"of Paris has made it mandatory to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1825.6,"endTime":1830.0,"body":"integrate some of permeable soil,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1825.6,"endTime":1830.0,"body":"increase green space in every surface"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1830.0,"endTime":1834.4,"body":"that the city will develop – that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1830.0,"endTime":1834.4,"body":"a private developer will develop."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1834.4,"endTime":1839.6,"body":"So, by this type of legally binding"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1834.4,"endTime":1839.6,"body":"legislation, you can really plan the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1839.6,"endTime":1845.6,"body":"cities and design a city in a way that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1839.6,"endTime":1845.6,"body":"will be much more climate responsive."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1845.6,"endTime":1852.4,"body":"And, for us at C40, because we have been"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1845.6,"endTime":1852.4,"body":"working with all of our 100 cities to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1852.4,"endTime":1857.6,"body":"develop their climate action plan, which"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1852.4,"endTime":1857.6,"body":"is a very important document to set"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1857.6,"endTime":1862.8,"body":"the objective, to identify the action,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1857.6,"endTime":1862.8,"body":"but now, the key challenge is really"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1862.8,"endTime":1867.6,"body":"how we mainstream, how we go from this"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 30","startTime":1862.8,"endTime":1867.6,"body":"vision objective to implementation."},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1867.6,"endTime":1868.4,"body":"39"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1868.4,"endTime":1873.2,"body":"So, that master plan, by thinking about"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1868.4,"endTime":1873.2,"body":"transportation, where we build our"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1873.2,"endTime":1878.0,"body":"buildings, increasing density, contributes"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1873.2,"endTime":1878.0,"body":"not only to building the city of the"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1878.0,"endTime":1882.4,"body":"future; it helps the city's climate"},{"speaker":"David 31","startTime":1878.0,"endTime":1882.4,"body":"action plan become legally binding."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1882.4,"endTime":1883.6,"body":"58"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1883.6,"endTime":1884.4,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1884.4,"endTime":1888.4,"body":"That's the difference between"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1884.4,"endTime":1888.4,"body":"knowing what we must do, setting"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1888.4,"endTime":1890.4,"body":"the objective and the action."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1890.4,"endTime":1897.2,"body":"In a city, you have approximately 30% of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1890.4,"endTime":1897.2,"body":"the land that is public space and 70% of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1897.2,"endTime":1899.6,"body":"the land that is privately-owned land."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1899.6,"endTime":1905.6,"body":"So, you need also to make sure to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1899.6,"endTime":1905.6,"body":"regulate to make sure that what will"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1905.6,"endTime":1910.4,"body":"be developed in this 70% of land"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1905.6,"endTime":1910.4,"body":"is well-designed and and includes"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 31","startTime":1910.4,"endTime":1911.6,"body":"some climate-responsive solutions."},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1911.6,"endTime":1912.4,"body":"25"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1912.4,"endTime":1917.2,"body":"There's been a lot of discussion"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1912.4,"endTime":1917.2,"body":"in the media, in urban planning"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1917.2,"endTime":1922.0,"body":"circles, on the Internet about a"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1917.2,"endTime":1922.0,"body":"concept known as the 15-minute city."},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1922.0,"endTime":1925.2,"body":"Can you speak to what that concept is?"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1925.2,"endTime":1931.6,"body":"What does it mean in reality, on the"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1925.2,"endTime":1931.6,"body":"ground, if a city is a 15-minute city?"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1931.6,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"And, how does it relate to the point"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1931.6,"endTime":1936.8,"body":"you're making about the importance"},{"speaker":"David 32","startTime":1936.8,"endTime":1939.2,"body":"of urban planning to climate action?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1939.2,"endTime":1940.4,"body":"50"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1940.4,"endTime":1944.8,"body":"[driving music] The concept of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1940.4,"endTime":1944.8,"body":"the 15-minute city is very simple."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1944.8,"endTime":1950.4,"body":"It says that, in every neighbourhood,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1944.8,"endTime":1950.4,"body":"everyone should be able to find access to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1950.4,"endTime":1953.6,"body":"amenities, services, job opportunities,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1950.4,"endTime":1953.6,"body":"housing options, public transportation,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1953.6,"endTime":1958.8,"body":"parks, so all of the key ingredients"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1953.6,"endTime":1958.8,"body":"that make city life agreeable and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1958.8,"endTime":1964.0,"body":"livable, they should be able to reach"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1958.8,"endTime":1964.0,"body":"to this element within a 15-minute"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1964.0,"endTime":1966.8,"body":"city walk or bike from their home."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1966.8,"endTime":1971.6,"body":"So, it's quite simple as a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1966.8,"endTime":1971.6,"body":"concept and it's not very new."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1971.6,"endTime":1973.6,"body":"Let's be totally honest here."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1973.6,"endTime":1978.8,"body":"There were a lot of urbanists in the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1973.6,"endTime":1978.8,"body":"'60s—Jane Jacobs, and more recently,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1978.8,"endTime":1983.6,"body":"Carlos Moreno – who have pushed"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1978.8,"endTime":1983.6,"body":"this vision of cities that is based"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1983.6,"endTime":1988.8,"body":"on proximity, but also where the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1983.6,"endTime":1988.8,"body":"public space is made for the people."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1988.8,"endTime":1994.0,"body":"So, public space is the living room"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1988.8,"endTime":1994.0,"body":"of the neighbourhood, a place where"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1994.0,"endTime":2000.0,"body":"people can walk and can meet others and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":1994.0,"endTime":2000.0,"body":"everything, so this is really this vision."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2000.0,"endTime":2004.0,"body":"But, what is interesting with this,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2000.0,"endTime":2004.0,"body":"especially discussions around the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2004.0,"endTime":2008.4,"body":"15-minute city, is it has really"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2004.0,"endTime":2008.4,"body":"created a global momentum and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2008.4,"endTime":2013.6,"body":"a discussion on why this is so"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2008.4,"endTime":2013.6,"body":"important to plan well, the cities."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2013.6,"endTime":2018.4,"body":"I think now, it's pretty clear"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2013.6,"endTime":2018.4,"body":"for everyone that the model of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2018.4,"endTime":2023.2,"body":"cities that has been mainstream"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2018.4,"endTime":2023.2,"body":"after World War II is not working"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2023.2,"endTime":2028.4,"body":"anymore – not working for the people"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2023.2,"endTime":2028.4,"body":"and it's not working for the planet."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2028.4,"endTime":2034.4,"body":"When, 70 years ago, the car has been"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2028.4,"endTime":2034.4,"body":"introduced in cities, they have not only"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2034.4,"endTime":2040.4,"body":"transformed our public spaces, so the car"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2034.4,"endTime":2040.4,"body":"takes so much space in the public space,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2040.4,"endTime":2044.8,"body":"but it has also totally destructured"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2040.4,"endTime":2044.8,"body":"our cities because people didn't"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2044.8,"endTime":2047.6,"body":"need to be close to these amenities."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 32","startTime":2047.6,"endTime":2048.8,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2048.8,"endTime":2049.6,"body":"35"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2049.6,"endTime":2054.8,"body":"Perhaps the work that Carlos Moreno"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2049.6,"endTime":2054.8,"body":"and others are doing on the 15-minute"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2054.8,"endTime":2060.4,"body":"city now is revealing economic truths"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2054.8,"endTime":2060.4,"body":"that a city built in a more dense"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2060.4,"endTime":2065.2,"body":"form around walking and cycling can be"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2060.4,"endTime":2065.2,"body":"more economically successful, as well"},{"speaker":"David 34","startTime":2065.2,"endTime":2066.8,"body":"as more environmentally successful."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2066.8,"endTime":2068.0,"body":"51"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2068.0,"endTime":2074.4,"body":"I totally agree with that and we see that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2068.0,"endTime":2074.4,"body":"a lot, for example, in North America,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2074.4,"endTime":2079.6,"body":"where a lot of North American cities"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2074.4,"endTime":2079.6,"body":"are discussing about how they could"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2079.6,"endTime":2083.6,"body":"reactivate their downtown [chuckles]"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2079.6,"endTime":2083.6,"body":"and how they could diversify downtown."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2083.6,"endTime":2089.2,"body":"When people are not coming back, how do"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2083.6,"endTime":2089.2,"body":"you transform this type of neighbourhood?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2089.2,"endTime":2093.6,"body":"And, I think, by creating livable"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2089.2,"endTime":2093.6,"body":"neighbourhoods where there is job"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2093.6,"endTime":2098.4,"body":"opportunities, in the middle of the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2093.6,"endTime":2098.4,"body":"other functions of the cities, I"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2098.4,"endTime":2104.0,"body":"think it's very important, and a lot"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 34","startTime":2098.4,"endTime":2104.0,"body":"of cities are thinking that way now."},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2104.0,"endTime":2104.8,"body":"21"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2104.8,"endTime":2110.8,"body":"At a high level, perhaps for listeners who"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2104.8,"endTime":2110.8,"body":"are still getting accustomed to this idea"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2110.8,"endTime":2117.2,"body":"of the city as a more dense place where"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2110.8,"endTime":2117.2,"body":"people live and work in close proximity,"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2117.2,"endTime":2123.2,"body":"could you just speak about what C40 and"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2117.2,"endTime":2123.2,"body":"what you are doing with the 15-minute"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2123.2,"endTime":2129.2,"body":"city idea and the kinds of policies that"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2123.2,"endTime":2129.2,"body":"a city could undertake to ensure that"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2129.2,"endTime":2135.6,"body":"it grows in this modern way which, in"},{"speaker":"David 35","startTime":2129.2,"endTime":2135.6,"body":"a way, is a traditional way, as well?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2135.6,"endTime":2136.8,"body":"49"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2136.8,"endTime":2141.6,"body":"We've already created a task force"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2136.8,"endTime":2141.6,"body":"called the Mayoral Recovery Task Force,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2141.6,"endTime":2146.4,"body":"where mayors are discussing about how"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2141.6,"endTime":2146.4,"body":"they could recover from major crises,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2146.4,"endTime":2150.4,"body":"and the 15-minute city concept has"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2146.4,"endTime":2150.4,"body":"been really intensively discussed"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2150.4,"endTime":2155.6,"body":"between the mayors of our organization,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2150.4,"endTime":2155.6,"body":"and C40 has been the very first"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2155.6,"endTime":2159.6,"body":"organization—early 2022—to endorse this"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2155.6,"endTime":2159.6,"body":"model before it became very famous."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2159.6,"endTime":2165.2,"body":"So, I think we have been an organization"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2159.6,"endTime":2165.2,"body":"who have really pushed this vision"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2165.2,"endTime":2170.4,"body":"and making the case of better urban"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2165.2,"endTime":2170.4,"body":"planning, a better vision urban model"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2170.4,"endTime":2175.6,"body":"for cities, and I think, in that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2170.4,"endTime":2175.6,"body":"sense, we have been quite instrumental"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2175.6,"endTime":2177.2,"body":"to accelerate this discussion."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2177.2,"endTime":2178.0,"body":"[gentle music]"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2178.0,"endTime":2182.8,"body":"And, since then, we have been partnering"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2178.0,"endTime":2182.8,"body":"with some organizations like urban"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2182.8,"endTime":2188.0,"body":"partners like Novo Nordisk and others"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2182.8,"endTime":2188.0,"body":"to create a program which is called"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2188.0,"endTime":2192.8,"body":"Green and Thriving Neighbourhoods where"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2188.0,"endTime":2192.8,"body":"we basically help the cities of our"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2192.8,"endTime":2198.8,"body":"network to adopt this concept and to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2192.8,"endTime":2198.8,"body":"turn it, a little bit, into a reality."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2198.8,"endTime":2204.0,"body":"So, we are helping some cities to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2198.8,"endTime":2204.0,"body":"integrate this vision in their master"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2204.0,"endTime":2209.2,"body":"plan, cities like Bogota for example,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2204.0,"endTime":2209.2,"body":"who have created a project called Vital"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2209.2,"endTime":2213.6,"body":"Neighbourhoods, which is very interesting"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2209.2,"endTime":2213.6,"body":"and it's really about creating around"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2213.6,"endTime":2217.6,"body":"the school, public spaces that are more"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2213.6,"endTime":2217.6,"body":"bike-friendly, more people-friendly,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2217.6,"endTime":2224.0,"body":"I would say, so that they are more"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2217.6,"endTime":2224.0,"body":"safe to walk, but also they can play"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2224.0,"endTime":2229.2,"body":"in the public spaces and they are also"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2224.0,"endTime":2229.2,"body":"increasing the number of services,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2229.2,"endTime":2233.2,"body":"especially recreational services, health"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2229.2,"endTime":2233.2,"body":"services, care services for the children"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2233.2,"endTime":2238.8,"body":"and for the people who take care of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2233.2,"endTime":2238.8,"body":"the children, who are especially women."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 35","startTime":2238.8,"endTime":2240.0,"body":"[music fades out]"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2240.0,"endTime":2240.8,"body":"31"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2240.8,"endTime":2246.0,"body":"Can you just outline for the listeners"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2240.8,"endTime":2246.0,"body":"how this idea of 15-minute cities,"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2246.0,"endTime":2250.8,"body":"cities built around neighbourhoods"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2246.0,"endTime":2250.8,"body":"where people don't have to own a car"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2250.8,"endTime":2256.4,"body":"and where their everyday daily needs"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2250.8,"endTime":2256.4,"body":"can be met, to work, for education, for"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2256.4,"endTime":2258.8,"body":"childcare, for shopping, and so forth?"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2258.8,"endTime":2264.4,"body":"How does that idea contribute to the"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2258.8,"endTime":2264.4,"body":"necessity, as the IPCC has shown, to"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2264.4,"endTime":2269.2,"body":"halve overall emissions by between 2030"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2264.4,"endTime":2269.2,"body":"and 2035 and substantially move towards"},{"speaker":"David 37","startTime":2269.2,"endTime":2271.6,"body":"getting off fossil fuels by then?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2271.6,"endTime":2272.8,"body":"09"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2272.8,"endTime":2277.2,"body":"We have organized our cities"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2272.8,"endTime":2277.2,"body":"in a way that was car-oriented."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2277.2,"endTime":2284.0,"body":"So, we basically created the city in a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2277.2,"endTime":2284.0,"body":"way that people need to use their car to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2284.0,"endTime":2290.4,"body":"access to these types of amenities to go"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2284.0,"endTime":2290.4,"body":"to their job, to go to commercial areas."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2290.4,"endTime":2295.6,"body":"By doing this, people didn't win"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2290.4,"endTime":2295.6,"body":"time, but we increased the distance to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2295.6,"endTime":2298.0,"body":"the different functions of the city."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2298.0,"endTime":2303.6,"body":"We increased long commutes so we decreased"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2298.0,"endTime":2303.6,"body":"quality of life, but we also increased"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2303.6,"endTime":2310.4,"body":"car dependency and the use of cars, and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2303.6,"endTime":2310.4,"body":"use of cars is use of fossil fuel and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2310.4,"endTime":2312.8,"body":"so it's contributing to GHG emissions."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2312.8,"endTime":2318.4,"body":"So, that's why the IPCC report has made"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2312.8,"endTime":2318.4,"body":"this very strong evaluation and indicating"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2318.4,"endTime":2323.2,"body":"that by adopting land-use planning and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2318.4,"endTime":2323.2,"body":"urban planning policies, based on the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2323.2,"endTime":2327.2,"body":"15-minute city, cities could reduce"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2323.2,"endTime":2327.2,"body":"their emissions by approximately 25%"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2327.2,"endTime":2330.0,"body":"by 2050, which is very, very important."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2330.0,"endTime":2334.4,"body":"So, basically, it's this car"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2330.0,"endTime":2334.4,"body":"dependency that we want to stop."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2334.4,"endTime":2339.2,"body":"That doesn't mean people cannot travel"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2334.4,"endTime":2339.2,"body":"across the cities, of course, and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2339.2,"endTime":2343.6,"body":"C40, we are supporting the development"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2339.2,"endTime":2343.6,"body":"of public transport and others."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2343.6,"endTime":2348.4,"body":"But this means, if they don't"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 38","startTime":2343.6,"endTime":2348.4,"body":"want to, they don't have to."},{"speaker":"David 39","startTime":2348.4,"endTime":2349.2,"body":"22"},{"speaker":"David 39","startTime":2349.2,"endTime":2353.2,"body":"And are the results popular"},{"speaker":"David 39","startTime":2349.2,"endTime":2353.2,"body":"with the people who are"},{"speaker":"David 39","startTime":2353.2,"endTime":2355.6,"body":"living in the cities, as well?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2355.6,"endTime":2356.8,"body":"26"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2356.8,"endTime":2358.0,"body":"I think so."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2358.0,"endTime":2363.6,"body":"There is a poll which shows that people"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2358.0,"endTime":2363.6,"body":"understand what is a 15-minute city."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2363.6,"endTime":2369.6,"body":"They can see what is a 15-minute"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2363.6,"endTime":2369.6,"body":"city, and the idea is to create more"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2369.6,"endTime":2371.6,"body":"livability in their own neighbourhood."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2371.6,"endTime":2376.4,"body":"For example, the Mayor of Paris,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2371.6,"endTime":2376.4,"body":"has been pushing this idea that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2376.4,"endTime":2378.4,"body":"she endorsed the 15-minute city."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2378.4,"endTime":2384.0,"body":"In her campaign for the reelection,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2378.4,"endTime":2384.0,"body":"she was pushing a lot of the agenda"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2384.0,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"to transform the public spaces, to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2384.0,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"reduce the space occupied by car and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2394.0,"body":"provide more space for people, green"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2394.0,"body":"spaces, playgrounds, and it was hard."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2394.0,"endTime":2396.4,"body":"It is a very complicated agenda."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2396.4,"endTime":2401.2,"body":"She really pushed this vision of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2396.4,"endTime":2401.2,"body":"the 15-minute city to explain that"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2401.2,"endTime":2403.6,"body":"it was not an anti-car policy."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2403.6,"endTime":2410.4,"body":"It was a vision she had for the city of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2403.6,"endTime":2410.4,"body":"Paris and I think the Parisians understood"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2410.4,"endTime":2417.2,"body":"more what she was trying to do and it was,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 39","startTime":2410.4,"endTime":2417.2,"body":"in that sense, I think, very important."},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2417.2,"endTime":2418.0,"body":"19"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2418.0,"endTime":2423.2,"body":"It involves making cities not car"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2418.0,"endTime":2423.2,"body":"dependent so people can shop and work"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2423.2,"endTime":2428.0,"body":"and enjoy libraries and community centres"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2423.2,"endTime":2428.0,"body":"and parks without having to drive."},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2428.0,"endTime":2434.8,"body":"There's an attack on it that it's an"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2428.0,"endTime":2434.8,"body":"attack on cars which, you know, I sort of"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2434.8,"endTime":2439.2,"body":"understand from the political perspective,"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2434.8,"endTime":2439.2,"body":"even though it's a bit absurd."},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2439.2,"endTime":2441.2,"body":"It's providing people an alternative."},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2441.2,"endTime":2446.4,"body":"But, that attack has morphed into some"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2441.2,"endTime":2446.4,"body":"very strange things on the Internet"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2446.4,"endTime":2451.6,"body":"– conspiracies that the city of Oxford"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2446.4,"endTime":2451.6,"body":"wants to keep you in your neighbourhood"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2451.6,"endTime":2458.0,"body":"and things, which are ludicrous but seem"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2451.6,"endTime":2458.0,"body":"to gain a little bit of traction in this"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2458.0,"endTime":2462.4,"body":"right-wing ecosystem and then occasionally"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2458.0,"endTime":2462.4,"body":"get reported out in newspapers and"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2462.4,"endTime":2464.8,"body":"other places that should know better."},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2464.8,"endTime":2470.0,"body":"Can you explore that a bit with"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2464.8,"endTime":2470.0,"body":"us, from your perspective as an"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2470.0,"endTime":2474.0,"body":"advocate for building these denser,"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2470.0,"endTime":2474.0,"body":"more livable, thriving cities that"},{"speaker":"David 40","startTime":2474.0,"endTime":2475.6,"body":"are economically more successful?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2475.6,"endTime":2476.8,"body":"20"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2476.8,"endTime":2483.2,"body":"I think, if you look—and there are a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2476.8,"endTime":2483.2,"body":"lot of studies who have tried to analyze"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2483.2,"endTime":2488.4,"body":"where these attacks came from—if you"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2483.2,"endTime":2488.4,"body":"look, it's very close to the anti-vaccine"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2488.4,"endTime":2493.6,"body":"movement, so very close to the people"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2488.4,"endTime":2493.6,"body":"who were against the vaccination during"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2493.6,"endTime":2499.2,"body":"the COVID and everything, and they create"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2493.6,"endTime":2499.2,"body":"this form of false parallel between the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2499.2,"endTime":2505.6,"body":"lockdown that we all had to live, and it"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2499.2,"endTime":2505.6,"body":"was hard and violent for everyone during"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2505.6,"endTime":2510.4,"body":"the health crisis, and this 15-minute"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2505.6,"endTime":2510.4,"body":"city concept, and they basically said"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2510.4,"endTime":2515.2,"body":"that the 15-minute city concept was about"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2510.4,"endTime":2515.2,"body":"locking people within their neighbourhood,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2515.2,"endTime":2520.8,"body":"so they called it \"a climate lockdown\""},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2515.2,"endTime":2520.8,"body":"so it's not anymore a health lockdown."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2520.8,"endTime":2522.4,"body":"It's a climate lockdown."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2522.4,"endTime":2527.2,"body":"And they showed some images that were"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2522.4,"endTime":2527.2,"body":"totally disconnected from the 15-minute"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2527.2,"endTime":2532.4,"body":"city, so they showed some images, for"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2527.2,"endTime":2532.4,"body":"example, from cameras in the cities"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2532.4,"endTime":2537.2,"body":"and ULEZ, all these types of things"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2532.4,"endTime":2537.2,"body":"saying that they are controlling"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2537.2,"endTime":2541.6,"body":"the local residents; they are not"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2537.2,"endTime":2541.6,"body":"allowed to leave their neighbourhood."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2541.6,"endTime":2542.8,"body":"It's totally nonsense."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2542.8,"endTime":2547.6,"body":"There is not one city across"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2542.8,"endTime":2547.6,"body":"the world that has done that."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2547.6,"endTime":2552.4,"body":"What is very problematic and concerning"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2547.6,"endTime":2552.4,"body":"is that, as you mentioned, more"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2552.4,"endTime":2557.2,"body":"recently, we have seen right wing, too,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2552.4,"endTime":2557.2,"body":"also fuel these conspiracy theories."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2557.2,"endTime":2563.2,"body":"But, I think it is interesting because"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2557.2,"endTime":2563.2,"body":"there was a poll in the UK, asking"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2563.2,"endTime":2568.8,"body":"people what they think and if they"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2563.2,"endTime":2568.8,"body":"would like to live in a 15-minute"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2568.8,"endTime":2572.8,"body":"neighbourhood, with this proximity to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2568.8,"endTime":2572.8,"body":"amenities and this specified public"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2572.8,"endTime":2578.8,"body":"space, and I think it was 62% of the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2572.8,"endTime":2578.8,"body":"British that say that, \"This looks"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2578.8,"endTime":2581.6,"body":"like a nice neighbourhood to live in.\""},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2581.6,"endTime":2585.2,"body":"Oxford, the mayor has received"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2581.6,"endTime":2585.2,"body":"some threats and difficult"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2585.2,"endTime":2589.2,"body":"pushback from this conspiracy"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2585.2,"endTime":2589.2,"body":"theory, but he has been reelected."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2589.2,"endTime":2594.0,"body":"I think there is a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2589.2,"endTime":2594.0,"body":"disconnection between what happens"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2594.0,"endTime":2598.8,"body":"on social media, pushed by a"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 41","startTime":2594.0,"endTime":2598.8,"body":"small tight wing, and the reality."},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2598.8,"endTime":2599.6,"body":"14"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2599.6,"endTime":2604.4,"body":"[light, percussive music] We've heard"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2599.6,"endTime":2604.4,"body":"this kind of really awful discourse on"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2604.4,"endTime":2610.0,"body":"social media, and as you pointed out,"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2604.4,"endTime":2610.0,"body":"Hélène, it's a minority, but it's loud."},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2610.0,"endTime":2615.2,"body":"So, how do mayors respond to that"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2610.0,"endTime":2615.2,"body":"and minimize the risk of that"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2615.2,"endTime":2619.2,"body":"kind of conversation and kind of"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2615.2,"endTime":2619.2,"body":"disinformation being utilized to"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2619.2,"endTime":2623.6,"body":"block these ideas and ensure that"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2619.2,"endTime":2623.6,"body":"city residents can actually benefit"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2623.6,"endTime":2626.8,"body":"from this strong, neighbourhood-based"},{"speaker":"David 43","startTime":2623.6,"endTime":2626.8,"body":"approach to city building?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2626.8,"endTime":2628.0,"body":"40"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2628.0,"endTime":2633.2,"body":"I think it's very important that they"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2628.0,"endTime":2633.2,"body":"show what the local community will"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2633.2,"endTime":2638.8,"body":"win with this type of approach, not"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2633.2,"endTime":2638.8,"body":"only saying that they are trying to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2638.8,"endTime":2644.0,"body":"develop that to fight climate change"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2638.8,"endTime":2644.0,"body":"or things, but also showing what the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2644.0,"endTime":2648.8,"body":"local community will benefit from these"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2644.0,"endTime":2648.8,"body":"actions, so showing that by reducing"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2648.8,"endTime":2653.6,"body":"some spaces that are dedicated to"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2648.8,"endTime":2653.6,"body":"cars, they can also create playgrounds,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2653.6,"endTime":2659.2,"body":"they can create more green space, they"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2653.6,"endTime":2659.2,"body":"can increase the health of the local"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2659.2,"endTime":2664.8,"body":"community and others, and show also some"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2659.2,"endTime":2664.8,"body":"of the local events that could happen."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2664.8,"endTime":2669.2,"body":"We have seen a lot of very"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2664.8,"endTime":2669.2,"body":"interesting events happening when"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2669.2,"endTime":2671.2,"body":"this type of transformation happens."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2671.2,"endTime":2676.4,"body":"[music fades out] I also think it's"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2671.2,"endTime":2676.4,"body":"important for them to measure, with"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2676.4,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"a data-driven approach, the impact of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2676.4,"endTime":2682.0,"body":"that in terms of air pollution, in terms"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2682.0,"endTime":2684.4,"body":"of impacts for the local businesses."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2684.4,"endTime":2689.2,"body":"We have seen a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2684.4,"endTime":2689.2,"body":"transformations of public spaces, for"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2689.2,"endTime":2693.6,"body":"example, that some local businesses"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2689.2,"endTime":2693.6,"body":"were a little bit concerned about"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2693.6,"endTime":2697.6,"body":"this could reduce their economies,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2693.6,"endTime":2697.6,"body":"their work, but actually it's"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2697.6,"endTime":2699.6,"body":"exactly the opposite that happened."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2699.6,"endTime":2704.8,"body":"It attracted more footfall and it"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2699.6,"endTime":2704.8,"body":"really helped them to thrive even more."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2704.8,"endTime":2710.8,"body":"So, showing the full picture of this"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2704.8,"endTime":2710.8,"body":"type and all of the benefits for the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2710.8,"endTime":2716.4,"body":"children and for the health and for the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2710.8,"endTime":2716.4,"body":"economy, I think it's very important."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2716.4,"endTime":2719.2,"body":"So, it's not a fight against cars."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2719.2,"endTime":2721.2,"body":"A car is a tool."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2721.2,"endTime":2725.2,"body":"It's a fight for a better"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 43","startTime":2721.2,"endTime":2725.2,"body":"local environment for everyone."},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2725.2,"endTime":2726.0,"body":"04"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2726.0,"endTime":2729.2,"body":"There are lots of criticisms"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2726.0,"endTime":2729.2,"body":"about 15-minute cities."},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2729.2,"endTime":2733.2,"body":"Many are bizarre and ludicrous"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2729.2,"endTime":2733.2,"body":"and clearly false, but there"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2733.2,"endTime":2735.6,"body":"is a thread that says, \"Great."},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2735.6,"endTime":2740.8,"body":"What you're doing is producing great"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2735.6,"endTime":2740.8,"body":"cities that people want to live in,"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2740.8,"endTime":2745.6,"body":"so that's pushing up the price of"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2740.8,"endTime":2745.6,"body":"housing, it's creating challenges for"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2745.6,"endTime":2751.2,"body":"low-income people, and really what it's"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2745.6,"endTime":2751.2,"body":"doing is creating a place that is so"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2751.2,"endTime":2754.0,"body":"desirable that only some can afford it.\""},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2754.0,"endTime":2759.2,"body":"Can you speak to that criticism in"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2754.0,"endTime":2759.2,"body":"particular in our cities, thinking about"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2759.2,"endTime":2762.0,"body":"that issue of class and social justice?"},{"speaker":"David 45","startTime":2762.0,"endTime":2764.4,"body":"And how are they addressing it?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2764.4,"endTime":2765.6,"body":"39"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2765.6,"endTime":2770.0,"body":"First thing, when we say \"complete"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2765.6,"endTime":2770.0,"body":"neighbourhood\", it's not just about"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2770.0,"endTime":2775.2,"body":"the mixed-use access to amenities;"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2770.0,"endTime":2775.2,"body":"it's also the mix of people, and that's"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2775.2,"endTime":2778.0,"body":"really something that we push a lot."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2778.0,"endTime":2782.8,"body":"So, for example, one of the key"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2778.0,"endTime":2782.8,"body":"ingredients of this complete neighbourhood"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2782.8,"endTime":2785.6,"body":"is to have access to housing options."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2785.6,"endTime":2790.0,"body":"And, for example, we are seeing several"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2785.6,"endTime":2790.0,"body":"cities I could mention—Johannesburg,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2790.0,"endTime":2795.2,"body":"Paris, and others—who are trying, for"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2790.0,"endTime":2795.2,"body":"example, to have this 25% of social"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2795.2,"endTime":2800.4,"body":"housing, not at the city level but at"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2795.2,"endTime":2800.4,"body":"the neighbourhood level because-- and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2800.4,"endTime":2804.4,"body":"that's very important that, in every"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2800.4,"endTime":2804.4,"body":"community, in every neighbourhood,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2804.4,"endTime":2808.8,"body":"you have these different typologies of"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2804.4,"endTime":2808.8,"body":"housing for different social backgrounds,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2808.8,"endTime":2810.4,"body":"different profiles of families."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2810.4,"endTime":2812.4,"body":"I think that's very important."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2812.4,"endTime":2818.0,"body":"The second element, I would say, is"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2812.4,"endTime":2818.0,"body":"that, again, I think what is important"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2823.6,"body":"is to work on the neighbourhood where"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2818.0,"endTime":2823.6,"body":"they don't have this type of quality"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2823.6,"endTime":2829.2,"body":"of life, and I think it's where we"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2823.6,"endTime":2829.2,"body":"should focus our efforts, and it's"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2829.2,"endTime":2831.2,"body":"where mayors focus their efforts."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2831.2,"endTime":2836.4,"body":"The idea is not to focus on the"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2831.2,"endTime":2836.4,"body":"city centre or the neighbourhoods"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2836.4,"endTime":2838.4,"body":"that are already 15-minute cities."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2838.4,"endTime":2843.2,"body":"The idea is to focus on neighbourhoods"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2838.4,"endTime":2843.2,"body":"where there they are underserved,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2843.2,"endTime":2848.4,"body":"they have no access to amenities and"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2843.2,"endTime":2848.4,"body":"everything, they have none of this"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2848.4,"endTime":2853.6,"body":"quality of public space that is so"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2848.4,"endTime":2853.6,"body":"important for the quality of life."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2853.6,"endTime":2858.4,"body":"And develop a set of actions"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 45","startTime":2853.6,"endTime":2858.4,"body":"to improve the quality of life."},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2858.4,"endTime":2859.2,"body":"03"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2859.2,"endTime":2862.0,"body":"I think that's a really important point."},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2862.0,"endTime":2867.2,"body":"In Toronto's case, we made it a"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2862.0,"endTime":2867.2,"body":"priority for public investments to be"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2867.2,"endTime":2871.6,"body":"invested in neighbourhoods where there"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2867.2,"endTime":2871.6,"body":"was a high correlation between low"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2871.6,"endTime":2874.4,"body":"incomes and a lack of public services."},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2879.2,"body":"I think those actions are very"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2874.4,"endTime":2879.2,"body":"aligned with what you're speaking to."},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2879.2,"endTime":2884.8,"body":"You're one of the world's leading"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2879.2,"endTime":2884.8,"body":"experts on this issue, plus you have the"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2884.8,"endTime":2890.0,"body":"privilege of seeing this concept across"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2884.8,"endTime":2890.0,"body":"cities in the global north and south."},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2890.0,"endTime":2897.2,"body":"What do you think our cities are going"},{"speaker":"David 47","startTime":2890.0,"endTime":2897.2,"body":"to look like in 10 and 20 and 50 years?"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2897.2,"endTime":2898.4,"body":"34"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2898.4,"endTime":2901.6,"body":"I hope we are living a turning point."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2901.6,"endTime":2905.6,"body":"I hope there is an appetite"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2901.6,"endTime":2905.6,"body":"for more livable cities,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2905.6,"endTime":2906.8,"body":"more livable neighbourhoods."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2906.8,"endTime":2912.4,"body":"We want people to stay in cities"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2906.8,"endTime":2912.4,"body":"because they love to live in cities."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2912.4,"endTime":2918.4,"body":"[urgent music] So, my vision is that we"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2912.4,"endTime":2918.4,"body":"will develop this concept and make sure"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2918.4,"endTime":2924.0,"body":"that everyone has access to what makes"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2918.4,"endTime":2924.0,"body":"the life in cities desirable and livable,"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2924.0,"endTime":2930.4,"body":"not only in the wealthy neighborhood or in"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2924.0,"endTime":2930.4,"body":"the city centre, but for everyone in every"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2930.4,"endTime":2935.6,"body":"neighbourhood – in the suburban area, in"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2930.4,"endTime":2935.6,"body":"the peripheral area, as well, where it's"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 47","startTime":2935.6,"endTime":2938.0,"body":"really important to develop this concept."},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2938.0,"endTime":2938.8,"body":"13"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2938.8,"endTime":2940.8,"body":"Hélène, I share your optimism."},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2940.8,"endTime":2947.2,"body":"We're in a worrying time, but let's hope"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2940.8,"endTime":2947.2,"body":"you're right and that we can build these"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2947.2,"endTime":2954.0,"body":"cities of the future where everyone has"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2947.2,"endTime":2954.0,"body":"a part to play and everyone can live in a"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2954.0,"endTime":2956.4,"body":"neighbourhood that allows them to thrive."},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2956.4,"endTime":2962.8,"body":"Thank you so much for your time today,"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2956.4,"endTime":2962.8,"body":"for being with us on Cities 1.5, but"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2962.8,"endTime":2967.6,"body":"more importantly for your ongoing work"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2962.8,"endTime":2967.6,"body":"helping cities around the world change"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2967.6,"endTime":2970.8,"body":"in the way their residents want and hope."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 48","startTime":2970.8,"endTime":2972.0,"body":"40"},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 48","startTime":2972.0,"endTime":2972.4,"body":"Merci."},{"speaker":"Hélène Chartier 48","startTime":2972.4,"endTime":2974.0,"body":"[music continues then ends]"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2974.0,"endTime":2974.8,"body":"47"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2974.8,"endTime":2978.8,"body":"[pensive music] Despite the growing"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2974.8,"endTime":2978.8,"body":"threat that disinformation poses to"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2978.8,"endTime":2983.6,"body":"democracy, if policymakers continue to"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2978.8,"endTime":2983.6,"body":"place community engagement at the heart of"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2983.6,"endTime":2986.0,"body":"their initiatives, progress can be made."},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2986.0,"endTime":2990.8,"body":"Professor Xuemei Bai, one of our"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2986.0,"endTime":2990.8,"body":"guests from earlier this season, had"},{"speaker":"David 48","startTime":2990.8,"endTime":2992.8,"body":"this to say about disinformation..."},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":2992.8,"endTime":2994.0,"body":"06"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":2994.0,"endTime":2999.2,"body":"More vocal climate scientists, including"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":2994.0,"endTime":2999.2,"body":"many women and many of them are my"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":2999.2,"endTime":3004.4,"body":"colleagues and friends, they became the"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":2999.2,"endTime":3004.4,"body":"subject of vicious attacks on the Internet"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3004.4,"endTime":3006.8,"body":"and some even received death threats."},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3006.8,"endTime":3012.0,"body":"Even if one disagrees with one another,"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3006.8,"endTime":3012.0,"body":"such behaviour of abusing and threatening"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3012.0,"endTime":3013.6,"body":"is really, really unacceptable."},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3013.6,"endTime":3019.2,"body":"People should know this by now, but"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3013.6,"endTime":3019.2,"body":"I think it is important that our"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3019.2,"endTime":3024.0,"body":"political leaders actually voice"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3019.2,"endTime":3024.0,"body":"a clear voice in that, and I think"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3024.0,"endTime":3029.2,"body":"they also need to be very, very"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3024.0,"endTime":3029.2,"body":"careful not to really propel the"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3029.2,"endTime":3031.6,"body":"misinformation and hatred in the society."},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3031.6,"endTime":3038.0,"body":"The general public also has a role to play"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3031.6,"endTime":3038.0,"body":"here, for example, shaping a very strong"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3038.0,"endTime":3044.0,"body":"consensus as a society for which the"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3038.0,"endTime":3044.0,"body":"silent majority probably need to step up a"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3044.0,"endTime":3049.6,"body":"bit and voice their support for scientists"},{"speaker":"Xuemei Bai 49","startTime":3044.0,"endTime":3049.6,"body":"who are trying to uncover the truth."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3049.6,"endTime":3050.4,"body":"59"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3050.4,"endTime":3054.8,"body":"[energetic, upbeat music] Well-designed"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3050.4,"endTime":3054.8,"body":"plans can help stave off the most"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3054.8,"endTime":3059.2,"body":"pernicious climate conspiracies, which we"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3054.8,"endTime":3059.2,"body":"must continue to challenge and disprove."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3059.2,"endTime":3062.8,"body":"In fact, we all have a part to play."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3062.8,"endTime":3067.2,"body":"We must take responsibility for the"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3062.8,"endTime":3067.2,"body":"information we consume and share"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3067.2,"endTime":3070.4,"body":"by fact-checking, avoiding online"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3067.2,"endTime":3070.4,"body":"echo chambers, challenging dishonest"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3070.4,"endTime":3075.2,"body":"narratives, and countering them with hard"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3070.4,"endTime":3075.2,"body":"science to ensure a prosperous, healthy"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3075.2,"endTime":3078.0,"body":"future for ourselves and for our planet."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3078.0,"endTime":3080.0,"body":"[music continues then fades out]"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3080.0,"endTime":3086.0,"body":"On the next episode of Cities 1.5, we"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3080.0,"endTime":3086.0,"body":"shine a spotlight on funders who are"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3086.0,"endTime":3090.4,"body":"working to make the green transition"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3086.0,"endTime":3090.4,"body":"the world sorely needs economically"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3090.4,"endTime":3094.0,"body":"viable, all while encouraging"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3090.4,"endTime":3094.0,"body":"national, state, and city governments"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3094.0,"endTime":3097.6,"body":"to foster evidence-based, innovative"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3094.0,"endTime":3097.6,"body":"strategies in tackling climate change."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3097.6,"endTime":3101.6,"body":"Realdania's Jesper Nygaard and Cléa"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3097.6,"endTime":3101.6,"body":"Daridann from Community Jameel offer"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3101.6,"endTime":3105.2,"body":"vital insights into how organizations"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3101.6,"endTime":3105.2,"body":"can support scientists, humanitarians,"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3105.2,"endTime":3109.6,"body":"technologists, and creatives to understand"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3105.2,"endTime":3109.6,"body":"and address pressing human needs and"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3109.6,"endTime":3112.0,"body":"the challenges of the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3112.0,"endTime":3114.4,"body":"You won't want to miss it."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3114.4,"endTime":3119.2,"body":"[Cities 1.5 main theme music] This"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3114.4,"endTime":3119.2,"body":"has been Cities 1.5, leading global"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3119.2,"endTime":3121.2,"body":"change through local climate action."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3121.2,"endTime":3122.4,"body":"I'm David Miller."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3122.4,"endTime":3128.0,"body":"I was the Mayor of Toronto, Canada,"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3122.4,"endTime":3128.0,"body":"and I know, firsthand, the role cities"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3128.0,"endTime":3130.8,"body":"can play in solving the climate crisis."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3130.8,"endTime":3136.4,"body":"I'm the Editor in Chief of the Journal"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3130.8,"endTime":3136.4,"body":"of City Climate Policy and Economy,"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3136.4,"endTime":3141.6,"body":"published by the University of Toronto"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3136.4,"endTime":3141.6,"body":"Press in collaboration with the C40 Centre"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3141.6,"endTime":3146.4,"body":"for City Climate Policy and Economy,"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3141.6,"endTime":3146.4,"body":"where I'm also the Managing Director."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3146.4,"endTime":3151.6,"body":"C40's mission is to help our member"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3146.4,"endTime":3151.6,"body":"cities halve their emissions within a"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3151.6,"endTime":3155.6,"body":"decade, while improving equity, building"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3151.6,"endTime":3155.6,"body":"resilience, and creating the conditions"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3155.6,"endTime":3157.6,"body":"for everyone, everywhere to thrive."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3157.6,"endTime":3162.4,"body":"[music continues] Cities 1.5 is produced"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3157.6,"endTime":3162.4,"body":"by University of Toronto Press in"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3162.4,"endTime":3167.6,"body":"association with the Journal of City"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3162.4,"endTime":3167.6,"body":"Climate Policy and Economy and C40 Cities."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3167.6,"endTime":3172.0,"body":"This podcast is produced by Jessica"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3167.6,"endTime":3172.0,"body":"Schmidt, and our executive producers"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3172.0,"endTime":3174.4,"body":"are Peggy Whitfield and Dali Carmichael."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3174.4,"endTime":3176.8,"body":"Our music is by Lorna Gilfedder."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3176.8,"endTime":3182.0,"body":"The fight for an equitable and resilient"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3176.8,"endTime":3182.0,"body":"world is closer than you think."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3182.0,"endTime":3186.8,"body":"To learn more, visit the show's"},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3182.0,"endTime":3186.8,"body":"website, linked in the episode notes."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3186.8,"endTime":3188.4,"body":"See you next time."},{"speaker":"David 49","startTime":3188.4,"endTime":3190.8,"body":"[main theme music continues then ends]"}]}