Healing the Individual and Collective with Foa Kinfyre

Foa Kinfyre and I explore topics such as codependency, parts work, dismantling conditioned beliefs and power structures, art as a spiritual practice, creativity and pleasure as activism, and the way personal and collective awakening are interwoven.

 For the latest updates, offerings, and ponderings visit www.brookesprowl.com

Transcript

0:01
lovely guest today is Foa kinfire an old friend of mine a dear friend   of mine and a very powerful somatic  practitioner educator and healer she's 
0:12
also a musician and performance  artist and a dream worker and   I'm really excited to see what emerges today welcome thanks thanks Brooke for having me so  
0:24
where shall We Begin what have you been pondering lately well I'm   I'm currently like in a in the suburbs which isn't a place that I feel comfortable in 
0:38
um so that's on my mind and just feeling  the the control the the clear control and 
0:47
the simulation of the suburbs  and how the design is for safety 
0:54
um that they actually make me feel less  safe so that's sort of like the first thing 
1:00
that I'm you know that genuinely is sort  of living on the surface of my experience 
1:06
I've been visiting the suburbs as  well and having similar experiences I 
1:13
remember a month or so ago I was down  there and I and a fork course this isn't 
1:18
entirely true this is an oversimplification or  over generalization but the feeling I had was 
1:23
I can just you know fit myself into what  I think I'm supposed to be then I can 
1:30
maybe put off the task permanently or  temporarily of deep self-examination so 
1:38
I don't know if that's true that might  be a complete projection but that was   the feeling that I had along with a feeling of  
1:48
just a a lack of cultural value for individuality and individual expression  
1:54
a good feeling like because since we  both grew up there feeling like I have  to show up a certain way to be accepted  as opposed to I'm celebrated in my 
2:05
uniqueness um interesting yeah it's  interesting to think about design 
2:11
and how it impacts our personalities world view 
2:17
um yeah because I I imagine that  avoiding looking at what's difficult 
2:23
exists in other you know in  other Scapes and other sort 
2:31
of like City designs but there is something  about um the suburbs thought it feels 
2:40
it feels denuded it feels like the Wilds  doesn't really exist there on purpose 
2:48
um and I you know again yeah we're  speaking in generalizations but 
2:54
I also feel like there is something  about individualism of like this is   my property like this is mine you know so there's maybe individuality of ownership  
3:04
um but there is like this sort of falling in line with um presentation [Music]  
3:12
that does feel like a pattern um and sort of formula formulaic  
3:20
um it is interesting we both grew up in the context how do you why we became friends  
3:27
so Outsiders Outsiders I know if it wasn't for like Emo music and the in the  
3:34
early 2000s [Laughter] it really was helpful 
3:47
it's like everything sucks and it's painful  you know it's like I needed everything to  
3:52
counterweight everything I was seeing around me where   everything was fine right right yeah and I agree with what you said  
4:01
about of course in every human we all in some ways aren't looking we all in some  
4:07
ways are avoiding it's not it's not to  make a statement that that's not present  in me even right now in real time there  are of course ways in which we all  
4:15
don't look but there's something I had this feeling about and more systematic or a more 
4:21
robust feeling about that like and  not not like that that it's conscious 
4:27
um but just like oh there's that that  feels like the culture there and then we 
4:32
set about you know the individualism  versus individuality perhaps is one way 
4:37
of framing it um what I've been  thinking a lot about lately is how 
4:43
like each there's all these different  movements you know socially culturally 
4:49
um politically and there's a reason that  they that many movements you know even 
4:55
where we might look and say oh that's  that's not the most constructive 
5:00
movement there's a reason that they  resonate with a lot of people and it's   because in my from my perspective there's some truth and some real  
5:10
deep value that that movement is speaking to people but the reason that in in my view they  
5:17
might be not not be constructive is because they leave out the other   side of the conversation so when I was  thinking about what you're saying about 
5:25
individualism versus individuality I was  thinking oh there's this really strong 
5:31
individualism and it's not balanced with  collectivism you know like it feels like 
5:37
it's it's individual and then  it's Conformity and it's not 
5:44
like individuality and Collective  integration like there's there's some 
5:52
perversion of what I think is an optimal  kind of way of structuring a culture 
5:59
which is we we kind of celebrate  each individual's attributes while 
6:06
um kind of collaborating collect you know  as a collective and finding a place for 
6:13
each person in reciprocal service yeah  and it's not to say that there aren't   other places I mean I think it I think in every culture I'm sure there's ways  
6:23
that things can be recalibrated to  be more optimal like maybe there are  certain cultures that are so collectivist  that the individuality gets denigrated  
6:30
in some ways that are hurtful of course that exists as well   so there are all sorts of ways in which you  know we can I think that not only we can but 
6:40
we have the responsibility to be looking  at where these where that balance is and 
6:47
how to recalibrate and create a more  optimal way of relating yeah yeah 
6:53
absolutely yeah for some reason as you're speaking   I was reminded of [Music] um the cul-de-sac maybe  
7:04
it's because you live you grew up on a cul-de-sac   and like the design and function of the cul-de-sac was like this filtration system  
7:15
to keep you know the Riff Raff out or to see who's in your neighborhood there's  
7:21
a book about I'm forgetting the name of  the author called the wages of whiteness  and and white supremacy in in  Suburban designs specifically in that 
7:32
the cul-de-sac sort of functions as  keeping people that symbolize poverty 
7:38
sort of out slows them down you  kind of get a chance to see them   you know get a take on them and um and then on top of that again specifically  
7:49
referencing the bio original  bio region in which we grow up  grew up in thinking about how many  neighborhoods were actually built on Marshland 
7:58
and how that is actually the ecological filtration  system that like helps to purify the rain water 
8:06
that goes out to see and so there's this sort  of like simulation of filtration that's based 
8:12
off of ideas and ideologies and  then there's the Erasure of the 
8:18
actual filtration system that supports you  know aquifers and Marsh territories and and 
8:27
ocean territories and I don't know why that's  coming to mind as I was listening to you 
8:34
I think I just sort of like drew me into  like an ecological perspective on what's 
8:40
happening in in the where we called home  I'd also love to talk about some of the 
8:46
things we've been communicating  about lately separately   um because I think something I'm feeling really in touch with right now is my own  
8:54
wounding so often I'm speaking to the  capacity that we all have to transcend 
9:00
our ordinary limitations and you know  live our greatest potentialities and   make an impact on the world and and Achieve kind of Awakened States Of  
9:09
Consciousness and you know all of that  is true and I believe it and I think  that I also want to just be  really mindful of speaking to 
9:21
how our wounding is a part of  of what opens up our Highest 
9:26
Potential it's anything any way in  which we engage with our you know 
9:32
limitations is ultimately kind  of a part of the process that 
9:38
allows us to become the greatest version  of who we are and so I'm feeling kind of 
9:44
in touch with my wounding right now um  and my uh my limitations my struggles 
9:50
and kind of you know was thinking  about potentially exploring some of the 
9:56
conversations we've been having around  codependency boundaries communication 
10:03
um you know would you be interested in  exploring that I've been dealing as you 
10:08
know with chronic pain and being  medically disabled since I was 12 and 
10:16
I've tried a lot of different things to  try to make that pain go away and make 
10:22
myself different   and a part of it is natural you know to it's natural for us to not want to feel pain  
10:30
and what I've found recently that just feels so 
10:40
deeply aligned with um what  it means to be present to my 
10:46
wounding is to just allow like  just allow the Pain Feel in a 
10:55
systematic technique as well to  feel to feel all the Nuance of all 
11:01
the pain to go right into it and track everything  as if I'm a witness to something that's happening 
11:08
um and in that there's this sort of  resourcing that is established that 
11:14
allows me to validate what's going on   um and validate that it's my experience and then also invoke  
11:23
um sort of third party in my consciousness that um is sort of an observer in the room 
11:31
and it takes away my  propensity to coerce in a race 
11:38
um and the way that my nervous  system responds to that   is radical it's radical because the nervous system feels heard  
11:50
um the nervous system doesn't feel corrected so that's something that comes up for me in  
11:57
response to the the topic of of witnessing and feeling wounding  
12:04
um codependency and boundaries there's sacred coping you know devices mechanisms that 
12:16
most of us have learned are useful or were useful 
12:23
and as we get older we can see  how they are no longer useful 
12:29
and don't necessarily create the safety  that we're looking for which kind of 
12:35
leads me into the notion of  safety at all and how safety is 
12:41
it's a valuable simulation  it's important it's not like 
12:47
you know I also think it doesn't exist  ultimately but it's important to create 
12:54
so it's almost like it's almost like  boundaries and codependency are sort of 
12:59
the guides they're the sort of harbingers  into the deeper wound they kind of let us know 
13:08
um they're the protectors right and   thing that I've been noticing is how little they actually protect me and how they  
13:18
they actually sort of estranged me from my nature and from  
13:24
um what it is that I long to do and how it is that I long to live and like that's  
13:30
okay like they're here like come in you know come in to the circle and let me learn about you 
13:41
and so yeah those are Notions that come  up for me around all those things in 
13:46
response to your invitation yeah  the thread between the two from 
13:53
where I was but I was  feeling and and pondering was 
13:58
this of this idea of being in  conversation with our parts you know uh 
14:04
with our nervous system with our  codependency with our wounds with   our boundaries like that these are all parts of us that you know and and as you beautifully  
14:15
said about the nervous system   um you know when my nervous system is  heard it can relax and release you know 
14:24
it can it can sort of self-liberate  self-heal and there's something in that 
14:29
process that is feeling on a more  psycho spiritual level because 
14:34
um we are getting out of the dynamic of  coercion and Erasure right and you know 
14:41
so much of us are so much of our culture  is coercive and we internalize that and 
14:47
we have these war-like coercive  relationships with ourselves and   it's really in the surrender to our own involuntary pain that there's such a  
14:59
great deal of spiritual and psychological Liberation and   healing that occurs and so I love how you talked about kind of oh here's here are these things  
15:11
like say with codependency that in in my words would be you know defense mechanisms  
15:17
protective mechanisms but it's  like yeah well welcome because I  need protection like we need protection  and we don't know ways to assertively 
15:28
protect ourselves well that's fine here  we are you know in this pattern that 
15:33
might be backfiring and as we become more aware of  that we can start to relate in more empowered ways   we can gain skills but the beauty of just welcoming in and listening to our parts  
15:44
is so healing and transformative and there's a lot of research actually to   back this up internal family systems  therapy is a modality that's really 
15:53
about you know naming our parts getting  to know them listening helping them feel   heard and understood and uh you know there's a lot of evidence that supports  
16:04
its efficacy and Trauma healing as well  as even physical health conditions it's 
16:09
it's quite remarkable the reverberating  effects that it has on our system to 
16:17
welcome and integrate and listen to all  of our parts and the the seminal book in 
16:23
in ifs is called no bad parts and so the  premise is you know even the things that   we think are you know the worst parts of us the most damaging destructive defenses  
16:32
they all serve a purpose they all  have a positive and intent they may  not have positive consequences so they  may have you know harmful things but  
16:41
they have a positive intent and when they're listened to they can kind of   relax and serve the purpose and and  actualize that positive intention 
16:49
it makes me think so much of the punitive justice   system as opposed to restorative justice  
16:58
um I've been fantasizing kind of going back to like design of systems like the  
17:03
suburbs I've been thinking about prison  systems and prison reform and I and I  have very little education Beyond being  exposed to the current political justice 
17:13
system because of my family my  parents occupations of choice 
17:19
um what would it be like to have this sort  of language and template laid over folks 
17:28
who are struggling with addiction  or folks who are violent 
17:33
um and tracking the Nuance of their  stories of their origin stories of   the families and neighborhoods in which they grew up and instead of approaching things with  
17:42
punishment approaching things from a regenerative restorative model that allows for their complexity  
17:49
to be explored and provides resource in response to the  
17:56
complexities that are discovered about  that particular person's biography and  biology it just doesn't make for example  like addicts it makes no sense to me 
18:06
with someone who is trying to take care  of themselves and self-soothe through   whatever substance they're drawn to are sent to prison it's like I mean I understand  
18:18
that there's Nuance I understand that like maybe they they're being violent or they're   breaking other laws or violating  people's safety and boundaries 
18:27
um in order to acquire that you  know attempt to medicate themselves 
18:33
but I think that um there's just  room there's room for this ifs model 
18:41
um in the justice system and I'm  sure it's a harrowing Road and 
18:47
there's a lot to do and a lot to implement in  order for it to be applied and applicable but 
18:54
yeah what if we started looking at  things from that perspective as if 
18:59
someone isn't doing something wrong or we aren't  doing something wrong we're just trying to 
19:06
take care of ourselves yes and if we 
19:13
if we perspective which is what is true  you know like we individually in a way 
19:19
we individually don't commit crimes like  I know for example that if I were in 
19:24
certain circumstances I am confident  that I would have made very different   choices but to presume that I am somehow morally Superior is I think the error uh  
19:35
you know that a lot of people make is you know that I I made these choices  
19:41
you know as an individual sort of decontextualized and it's really unfair because  
19:47
it's like put in the right circumstances or the wrong circumstances I think we're all capable  
19:52
of nearly anything you know I'm just going to say that I mean in   response to what you're saying there's  two things that come up for me one is 
20:01
that the Empire makes money off of people being  incarcerated you know and that that leads me to 
20:09
wanting to throw into the pot that  there's something about the loss of 
20:16
indigenosity that's in the mix as to why  we as a species are dealing with so much 
20:23
depression um struggles  with regulating our nervous 
20:29
systems addiction violence I mean  all of these sort of like less Savory 
20:36
aspects of The Human Experience are they're  part of the human experience I think regardless 
20:43
um and I think that the sheer  magnitude of the presence of those   different qualities and coping behaviors I feel like really confident and I I don't  
20:53
know if there's any studies but just through my own observation   and work on grieving the loss of  my indigenosity as a white person 
21:03
um I just feel how it goes back  to that you know of this like 
21:09
separation from place and how the  a place and land in a bio region 
21:15
influences my sense of belonging to  community my sense of participation   in community what clothing I wear you know it's like the fibers aren't from the land  
21:25
upon which I lived or died with the  plants from that territory you know  there's there's sort of this dilution of meaning 
21:36
that is connected with that that intersection  of Empire and loss of indigenosity 
21:44
um that we're kind of indirectly  referencing in my opinion that we   talk about any of the things we're talking about and which brings a really important  
21:54
question into the foreground which I think is Paramount to moving forward as a people 
22:02
is like what does it mean to restore  indigenosity when we don't live in the 
22:08
place that our ancestors originated  from what does it mean to 
22:13
create meaning connection with the human  and the non-human at the place where in 
22:18
which we live yeah it's a big one 
22:25
yeah one of the most kind of  helpful concepts for me as I've been 
22:32
trying to reclaim a non-dogmatic  spiritual awareness is around my 
22:38
relationship to Nature and the framing  of individual or person and nature as 
22:47
opposed to individual or person as nature  um you know like like that I'm actually 
22:53
not separate from the land I'm actually  I'm actually not separate from nature   we're actually counterparts and we are we are interdependent and yet not only  
23:06
our thinking has taught us to be separate but our um you know are  
23:14
our development our our kind of like design like our Urban Design like   the way that we've designed things has furthered this concept and instantiated it  
23:27
um in the way that we live yeah yeah totally I think that's one reason so I feel weird   in the suburbs it's like I don't I don't feel that um it's difficult to feel that  
23:40
to feel nature but it makes me think about are you have you familiar with  
23:45
um the author and thinker I think his name is David Abrams he wrote  
23:51
um becoming animal that's the name of this book yeah he has this really interesting  
23:59
um lecture series he was doing in Amsterdam that I nerded out on several   years ago that's definitely informed my  work as a dream worker specifically but 
24:08
certainly also somatic work which is  why I call my business movement ecology 
24:16
um it sort of plays off this idea you're  talking about of the body as nature 
24:22
um but he talks about how like you could  go into the like 20th floor of a high-rise 
24:28
building and open the fridge and find  like some forgotten Tupperware left over 
24:33
that's covered in molds   and how like the wild is everywhere Like There's No Escape no matter how like we're  
24:41
all gonna die which is an example of  wild nature like There Is No Escape  we can try to convince ourselves  otherwise with our gadgets and 
24:50
our cul-de-sacs and our you know  fluorescent lighting or whatever but 
24:57
it's here and and similarly like  that's something that I talk about 
25:03
with DreamWork is for some of us it's kind  of our only access to like the wilderness 
25:11
because dreams are feral they do not obey our code of ethics our sense of morality 
25:23
um they live in the realm of taboo of  violence sometimes of of Terror and 
25:30
unspeakable Beauty   um so yeah I totally agree with you and there's something really  
25:41
really deeply deeply important about recognizing that we are we are wild  
25:47
nature and what is it what does it feel like to rewild ourselves and I think  
25:53
that going back to Parts work it's sort of like allowing all the all the inputs   in the ecosystem of our being to be  witnessed and present and tracked and 
26:03
noticed because they're there even if we  don't want them to be there you know it's like 
26:09
so tell me about how you how your dreams well 
26:17
the lineage that I that I have been studying  um with my mentor Matt Cochran for I've 
26:24
been studying with him for over 10 years  it's actually called dream tracking 
26:30
which is a term that he coined that  um like in streamwork to tracking 
26:36
an animal in the wilderness finding  their tracks in the forest floor 
26:43
and in approaching dreams that way they  become sort of a dynamic territory that 
26:49
we get to return to again and again and  learn and understand and it becomes a   relationship that grows and responds as we continue to respond to them um 
27:02
yeah so that's sort of like  the premise of the work is 
27:08
is acknowledging that there is no patent  way of interpreting dreams I don't I don't 
27:16
actually feel comfortable  with the word interpretation   I feel better with tracking  we're relating to dreams 
27:24
um it really helps to sort of know a little  bit more about the back story of what's really 
27:31
what's a pers what is whatever person I'm working  with what is their experience of their life 
27:36
up to this point and what is most  pressing in their life and in that   particular moment and with those two understandings listening to their dream 
27:49
and there's different tools there's  somatic tools of like understanding 
27:54
you know how someone feels in their body  when they remember the dream or actually   speaking about the dream in present tense so we're actually like returning  
28:03
into the territory of the dream  I find to be really helpful it's  difficult it's it's difficult to  remember to do that I I still struggle 
28:13
with it um but it's really useful way of allowing our sort of cognition to take a step aside  
28:23
and not in in not um analyze a dream with our waking mind but actually be  
28:29
in the dream and remember how it felt so we can we can really gather the  
28:35
authenticity of what the dream is trying to offer how is DreamWork used in service 
28:45
of maybe some kind of transformation  or change like what's the purpose of 
28:51
DreamWork and and how do you see it  relating to people's goals or you know 
28:57
um capacity to uh to change or transform in some way I find dreams to be really pragmatic 
29:09
even if the language is outrageous or outlandish dreams really show us what we need to look at  
29:18
what's that Mary Oliver poem about  nightmares the nightmare comes and 
29:23
tells you that you need to  know this it's [Music] um 
29:29
it's an honest it's the I feel like dreams are  perhaps one of the most honest voices that we have 
29:36
and that goes back to their wildness so in terms  of like relating that to personal transformation 
29:44
um it's sort of a sacred catalog of what needs to be known either for us or for someone  
29:52
else like we can have dreams for other people we can have trains for the land like  
29:58
it's yeah it's difficult for me to answer that question because it feels like  
30:03
it's so much more of an organic  process it's difficult to quantify 
30:09
um and like being with our Dream self 
30:15
restores an aspect of our Humanity  uh who knows where it will lead us   I mean for me personally as you know I've recently decided to move to Oaxaca Mexico  
30:25
and I made that decision based off of a dream that I had   and I that I've had I had like six or seven years ago that I've been holding  
30:36
and not trying to turn it into something right away it's my mentor always kind of like  
30:43
I'm telling me about that because one of the things that he says is how   can you let the dream live that's like  a precept of this dream tracking work 
30:53
um and sometimes I really like to  literalize it right away the dreams   dreams tell us what we need to know and then it might be something that's going  
31:02
to be useful like many years from now  in terms of like what is wanting to be  transformed or it could be something that needs  to be turned towards the following day you 
31:16
know um but it's really how dreams participate  in someone's transformation it's as 
31:22
infinite as there are people and experiences 
31:28
um which is some it's like it reminds  me of the planet you know it's 
31:35
it's they're so complex it's it's  difficult to know how they will and and 
31:40
yeah yeah what came up for me when  you're talking was you know this feeling 
31:46
that in a way you that our  dreams can be like prayers 
31:52
or um or little messages from our higher  self or our future self or something 
31:59
that's being born inside of us saying  you know over here you know yeah 
32:06
invite to look to pay attention to to see um yeah and just from a kind of  
32:15
psychological lens you know what you were saying made me think that really our dreams  
32:21
in some ways are about integrating our shadow and um and our unconscious uh and so much  
32:28
of you know what I believe is transformative is our ability to   integrate the disowned Parts the parts  that we think are bad you know back to 
32:38
our ifs conversation right um to  integrate the parts that we don't 
32:43
see and to bring them into some kind  of Consciousness so that you know not   to control or coerce them but to to be in relationship to them as you say yeah and  
32:52
then I I also am thinking about like  shamanic journeying Altered States Of  Consciousness and this this phrase keeps  coming to mind you know dreams are the 
33:02
language of God which I've heard  before I don't know who said it   um but yeah there's a there's a way in which it connects us to this Primal uh non-verbal 
33:13
um imaginal space that's deeply spiritual yeah yeah I mean it's it's everything all at once  
33:23
it's time stacked on itself it's it's the past and the future and the present it's  
33:32
you know epigenetic memory it's it's practical it's applicable  
33:39
it's actionable it's metaphysical it's mysterious it's ineffable it's everything  
33:48
how your dream work relates to your work as a musician artist   um yeah thank you so much for that Curiosity it's it's fundamental in my work I mean  
34:00
so much of even the language that I choose is referencing dreams 
34:08
um yeah it's my art wouldn't be what it is if it weren't for  
34:16
for the DreamWork so think it's just it's endless poetry you know it's endless imagery 
34:26
and it ties into this like deeper Taproot of what um is coming through me that I need to know 
34:38
or explore or be lost in or and or for  someone else to feel heard or seen or 
34:46
access to whatever that Taproot is  you know that really um I don't know 
34:53
functions collectively um yeah  my my next album is coming out 
35:01
it's been it's been idling for a minute which  is to my chagrin and has to do with covid 
35:07
um but we're going to be releasing it in the next  couple months and some EPS called ancient powers 
35:14
and the the title and most of the tracks weave dreams into into the work 
35:26
um it allows me to trust the work you  know like when I reference my dreams 
35:32
I know that I um bringing something that is hidden that's coming through me into the world in  
35:43
a way that is um relevant and 
35:51
and hopefully relevant for other people  yeah how has your creative life and your 
35:57
music Been instrumental in your  personal development or healing 
36:04
oh thank you for these great questions I feel  like my first album was really about grief 
36:11
and particularly tending to The  Unfinished grief in my maternal lineage 
36:19
um yeah I think that everybody  of work and whether it's music or 
36:26
performance Taps into different layers of my my healing and hopefully  
36:36
creates culture of permission for other people to feel inspired to do the  
36:41
feeling that needs to be felt um there's also like a pleasure piece 
36:50
um and a somatic piece of like  where am I singing from in the 
36:57
body like how does it how  does the sound and the tone 
37:02
um bring liberation um first when I was recording  
37:09
I mentioned this to a friend who  was interviewing me a while back  um about this most recent album that we  recorded of one of my design constraints 
37:21
was like how is this where is  the pleasure you know like does 
37:27
this feel right or am I lost in the weeds  of my brain trying in like production mode 
37:34
um and if I can stay centered in that pleasure   um that you know is really also like tied to dismantling the white  
37:43
heteronormative patriarchy if I can  tap into that felt sense in the music 
37:50
I experience healing and I hope that  that is like encoded into one of the 
37:55
layers of the song um or bodies of work um  
38:02
yeah I think I answered your question  did I yeah that's beautiful I what a  profound connection between  kind of pleasure and dismantling 
38:11
oppressive systems I mean I I I find you  know where my mind went first and then 
38:18
I'd love to pull that thread a little bit more  um sort of a new line of thinking for me but 
38:24
the where my mind first went  when you were speaking about   your art is you know I'm also a poet um as you know and when and and part  
38:33
of art for me is really just getting present to what's already alive in my  
38:39
imagination and my body and my and it's just it's just putting words or music   or whatever your you know images to the  thing that is already alive in you and 
38:48
it's just being awake enough present  enough and attuned it's for me it's it's 
38:54
really a healing process to be able to  trust myself enough to bring what is 
38:59
inside of me into the three-dimensional  World in a way yeah in itself is 
39:05
a healing process totally and I've  been thinking a lot about how kind of 
39:11
self-trust and self-love are really  related in a way that I've been quite 
39:16
connected before because it's really hard  like for so long I felt so wounded because of 
39:24
my mental illness um I felt so  wounded in my ability to trust 
39:31
my own mind and my own intuitive knowing  even though it was very much intact I 
39:37
didn't know which voice to listen to at times  or I felt so I felt so compromised in my 
39:44
ability to trust my own perception  um and and so much of my ability to 
39:49
reclaim love and and compassion for  myself has been related to my ability to 
39:55
reclaim a sense of of my own inner knowing and uh feeling that my intuition that I can rely  
40:04
on my intuition in a way that allows me to navigate the world   and there's something healing in that that  I'm not sure I can fully articulate but 
40:13
I I feel like self-love and self-trust  come together I'm not exactly sure why 
40:19
um it feels true to me and the Poetry is  sort of like the invocation of the words 
40:26
coming through you is an exercise in  in the soft trust and the way that 
40:33
that threads into the self-love  and the restoration of instinct 
40:40
yeah I love that that feels I feel  something really similar in the act of 
40:45
creation and and there's also like this Faith  piece you know of like just showing up and 
40:52
being like all right I'm here like I  don't know what is going to come through   I feel like a lot of doubt that anything is going to come through and then it does  
41:03
and there's something really yeah it's interesting to think about   healing does dismantle systems that  you know Thrive off of our self-doubt 
41:15
yeah because the systems can exist if  if we as individuals trust ourselves   our attuned our com you know to what is right and true in terms of like human  
41:26
dignity Justice fairness yeah like when when people are fully intact awake  
41:34
connected to our inner knowing about what is right and wrong like we can't  
41:39
be controlled and subjugated like we  will not allow that and that's really you 
41:45
know so much of why I I am feeling so  energized and inspired to live in a time 
41:52
where we have the technology to spread  awareness about how the relationship 
41:58
between personal and Collective transformation  like we as individuals when we wake up 
42:04
we can together help others wake up  and then together we can dismantle this 
42:10
whole system that is oppressing all of us  even even the people who are in power even  
42:15
the people of privilege like we are all hurt by it whether we know it or   not whether we're fighting tooth and nail  to preserve the systems that we think are 
42:22
in our best interest they are they are  destroying us right yeah absolutely and 
42:29
I just I feel so privileged and inspired  to live in a time where we have the 
42:35
resources and Technology to  really make a meaningful impact on 
42:40
global issues and I think what feels so  like eye-opening for me of late is just 
42:47
this awareness that it does start with  our individual Freedom our individual  emancipation uh and uh and a reclaiming  of our own intuition pleasure self-trust 
43:01
um self-love and then as we awaken to  that we say oh my God you know it's like 
43:07
it's it's a parallel process  right between our own kind of 
43:13
self-healing and our advocacy I think of  others and for systemic change because 
43:19
it's like because because it's just like  I'm not you know the healing isn't oh I'm so 
43:24
great and this is why I deserve  love it's oh I'm a human being   and every human deserves love and so if if I'm going to step into my own ability to love and  
43:33
advocate for myself that's not separate from you know love and advocacy for others  
43:40
and so there's just this really interesting way because I have such a   a history and the more individual small micro what's called in social work the  
43:50
micro perspective that it's been really powerful to see how uh we can think  
43:57
about scaling that because what where my heart really lies is like let's let's end  
44:03
Global poverty like let's let's like let's not let's not do this anymore like we can change  
44:10
the global Consciousness and all it takes is just each of us   doing our own inner work and then  helping others to self-liberate and and 
44:20
pass it on yeah I think that's where the  New Age movement I mean one of the ways 
44:26
you know that the New Age movement is like deeply  flawed is that it centers exclusively the self 
44:32
when you know no one's free till  everyone's free and you know like we are 
44:38
interconnected and Sophie strand one  of my uh favorite contemporary thinkers 
44:43
talks about how the myth of the hero's journey  is it needs to end and we in what needs to 
44:50
emerge is a mycological Consciousness  which is like the you know the 
44:56
networking the power of the network is  um it's the way forward and so it is 
45:04
like this Ellipsis where it's  like finding that Harmony between 
45:12
you know restoring the uh  degradated Ecology of the self 
45:18
that is degraded from the Empire from imperialism   currently you know what that looks like is the white heteronormative patriarchy  
45:28
and mono in my opinion the monotheistic influence it's like in the mix certainly 
45:37
um and then also exploring like  what does your heart feel called to   outside of yourself where you see the degradation get degradation and the  
45:47
um the the destruction of the other's dignity whether it's you know poverty  
45:55
um whether it's like super fun sites um you know the list goes on and on with  
46:02
the human and the non-human and we each  have our particular genius that we can  lend to what we feel called to help in  the Regeneration and restoration of and 
46:12
they can't they have to coexist in  parallel individual and societal change 
46:18
are inextricably interwoven there are  counterparts you know again we have this 
46:23
way of parsing and separating  dichotomizing but really like as 
46:28
individuals we are incomplete if we do  not you know if we if we are not in some 
46:34
way in service of the collective  um if we like our destiny is 
46:42
in some ways to self-liberate so that we  can you know offer that gift to others not  
46:47
just as you say with the New Age movement you know this there's   something so incomplete and and um I almost want to say masturbatory  
46:56
about that approach to self-development  like it's all about me just living my  best life like that's like I'm the like  that's an incomplete life that's not  
47:06
about your best life is not lived simply for you part of you living your best life   is you figuring out your unique gift  and how you can offer it in service 
47:14
so you know there's just yeah I totally  agree I have a lot of problems with the 
47:21
New Age movement that's not not the  least no that's just one I love the Deep 
47:27
design for us well that's that's kind of  I think another reason why I'm feeling 
47:33
you know excited to create content because  there's such a spiritual hunger right now  
47:38
there's a hunger for meaning and purpose and and spiritual   consciousness but there's not a language  around spirituality that isn't new Ag 
47:46
and that isn't dogmatic or religious  and so I've been really kind of you know 
47:51
that has been a very healing and  empowering part of my journey is was 
47:57
starting to listen to thinkers who were  having conversations around spirituality   where I didn't have any alarm Bells where I didn't like feel that protective  
48:04
like oh this doesn't feel right to  me like it's either coldsey or it's  narcissistic or it's new agey or it's  dog with you or whatever it was like  
48:13
like any time I was interfacing with people around spiritual actuality   one of those things would come up in such a  way that I didn't feel safe engaging deeply 
48:23
and it's like spirituality is such a  deep steep process that like it requires 
48:28
a lot of safety and tenderness and so  um you know really wanting to normalize  spirituality and kind of offer a  framework for how we access you know our 
48:40
Birthright which is our connection  to Nature to our Oneness   um and and we we are most alive when in a way we are at least um self-focused right 
48:54
[Music] there is some coming together that  needs to happen between some sweet spot 
49:00
between how we identify as individual beings and function in the greater whole and um 
49:13
the systems that are really thriving  right now don't want that and   they want us existing in a binary they want us existing in either or they want  
49:22
us to exist in results instead of the Meandering process which is the  
49:28
truth of what it means to be and the  Mystery of this Dimension and planet 
49:35
um yeah it's an interesting time and like  with climate change and like all of the 
49:42
just like documentation of outrageous  oppression that is happening it's really 
49:50
how do we how do we facilitate  change like very real change 
49:56
and acknowledge that like we're a part of a  process we're part of a lineage that like it's not 
50:03
gonna all happen in our lifetime there's  just like way too much work to do   so what does it mean for us to do our 
50:10
part and keep it's almost like seed saving  you know it's like what is our refinement 
50:16
that we have to offer to give  to the ones coming in after us 
50:23
you know and my belief is that if we  can take you know when we take as much 
50:28
ownership and responsibility for our own  internalized oppression pain suffering 
50:35
shadow um that as we transmute that and heal  that that organically and naturally we begin to 
50:43
wake up to how we we can uniquely serve  the collective so I think that yeah you 
50:48
know that it's so important because  I've struggled with for such a long   time that's like how do I help the world how do I help the world and you know I think it's  
50:56
like well you you you really have to do a significant amount and not   always I mean of course you're always  helping the world at every stage in your 
51:05
journey but I think there's I guess I just want to  give people permission to be where they're at in 
51:12
their process that like if right in this  moment you are focusing on your own healing   trust that in the long run that will be in service right right  
51:22
that's a really important distinction yeah and like   people like we all are in various ways just going through a hell of a time it's so hard  
51:33
and it's so it's so overwhelming all of the inputs that are coming at us that need  
51:41
tending and I totally appreciate  you speaking to that that's um  because the exceptionalism is another  way that we oppress ourselves you know so 
51:53
yeah thank you for speaking to  that that feels really important 
51:59
it's really a compassion piece yeah and a surrender piece it's like  
52:06
you know for me I I'm  constantly kind of struggling  between the aspirational and  the actual and you know that 
52:16
when I'm in right relationship to my  aspirations they fuel me but when I'm in 
52:23
um wrong relationship they they  just create shame and actually  [Music] drive me away from you know my ability to birth what is what is true for me  
52:37
yeah and that it's okay to be where you're at   and thank you so much any final words you'd  like to share thank you and I just want to send 
52:50
love to everyone tuning in thank  you so much for for being here and 
52:58
sharing your your gifts and your  perspective thank you it's fun to chat 
53:04
take care [Music]



English (United States)

All
Podcasts
Watched