Cultivating Childlike Wonder, Laughter & Play with Indy Rishi Singh

My guest Indy Rishi Singh embodies joyfulness, exuberance, and playfulness like few people I’ve met. 

He leads workshops on laughter and play with major companies and universities, in addition to his work with prison meditation, gamifying civic engagement, regenerative economics, and systems design. 

In this episode, we discuss how to cultivate childlike wonder and laughter, the illusory nature of reality, play as a spiritual practice, consciousness as the fundamental substrate of reality, Western misconceptions of the meaning of karma, and how we can apprentice ourselves to the wisdom of children.

Indy is an exceptional human and an absolute blast to collaborate with. I hope you find this interview as delightful as it is meaningful. 

 For the latest updates, offerings, and ponderings visit www.brookesprowl.com

Transcript

foreign [Music] hello and welcome to waking up with Brooke Sproul my guest today is Indie Rishi Singh Indy welcome

thanks so much Brooke go ahead and introduce yourself to get started maybe what if we introduce

ourselves with sound so this is this is my introduction this is I'm going to give you my pedigree Who I Am What college I went to

who I mentored with thank you foreign [Music]

did you get that that was beautiful so you so you got my pedigree you know who I am what

I am what I'm about there interviews over right I mean I you know I

at this point in my life I feel it's I'm very wary about the people who talk about themselves too much and I need to advertise themselves so much versus

those who actually do and so I almost feel like that flute right there what I just did

that says much more than me telling you my journey my story blah blah this is where this other like that's all great but we all

have our Journeys but can we synthesize our journey into something that produces Harmony

for other people that's the interesting thing the Nugget that's so beautiful and I've really been meditating on the relationship between

spirituality and play lately and as I just you embody this playful spirit I'm curious you know tell me how you see that you can't go through any sort of um understanding

without suffering like real understanding true under authentic understanding without suffering and and it's funny that the people in my life

who I've looked up to who I've mentored from who I've learned the most from and gained the most from were people who had developed a wonderful joyfulness about life

and even about challenges like when challenges will come their way they would be joyful about the challenge rather than like reactive to it

um or reactive to a suffering right and I I've always wanted to embody that myself and

I certainly think that we you know there's something going on with our inner children where we are turned off from play at a young age I mean

ironically right Brook I'm I'm curious what your thoughts are on this but you know even adults play games right we go to casinos we play games we have these like

games on our phones now that everybody plays so we never stop being our inner child right but what if like the actually like leaning into play as a

form of therapy leading us a play as a form of problem solving for our own lives and our

Collective lives um what if that's like a way that we can move through really difficult stuff like what if that's a way yeah and the way I

see Life in some ways is it's sort of like a video game and if I can see it as

a series of tests and challenges that are actually serving to ex help me

expand and actualize my full potential as a human being then I can play then I

can laugh then I can sort of embody that that Spirit of oh this is all just a

game this is this is not you know the way that we engage with life so seriously can

I think detract from the beauty the the joy of every aspect of existence

and at the same time What I Really struggle with is you know how do we play and also validate our own experience of suffering because the Suffering

The Pain um the struggle the you know uncertainty is all very real and so you know how do we

play without bypassing how do we play without dismissing or trivializing what you

know feels really powerful and and painful in moments do you have any insight on that yeah that's beautiful we are at this really powerful inflection point

where there's there's a multiple varieties of bypassing right there's spiritual bypassing right uh where people are like oh like you know I'm I'm I feel too

good to bother with the suffering of others right or whatever is happening um and there's economic bypassing right we're like well I'm

wealthy I'm fine I'm I got whatever it's whatever's happening to poor people that's on them it's their fault right so there's all kinds of different bypassing that's

happening and ultimately what all of that is it's it's a sad it's a sad

situation to not feel the interconnectedness of things right and so when we don't feel

that interconnectedness how can you you're always going to be you're always gonna be seeking happiness outside of yourself

you're always going to be seeking wholeness outside of yourself if you don't feel interconnected with everything and that being said coming back to play and as a form of bypassing well

play doesn't always necessarily mean that you're just going to be laughing and like silly all the time sometimes we play so that we can feel

the sadness right I mean I'll give you a a interesting frame when we watch a

movie right or a TV show and it brings us to tears right that that what's

happening in that show or that movie is that happening to us it's interesting I was thinking of the word play like a play is a play so we're yeah

so we're actually we're playing with our emotions by watching somebody else go through

something where so it is there is play also when leaning in under and connecting with sadness or loss or greed grief or whatever right or or overcoming

right you ever notice when you watch something and you see a hero overcome about the challenges and we feel that we cry too in that moment of Triumph right

so we we can play those emotions out as well it's not just all about being Giddy and happy and you know blissful and yet you know I think about like the

some kind of idealized version of like the wise Sage who just like is always

has that smirk always has that knowing smile or that that laughter that that childlike spirit of in you know regardless of the circumstances and I guess

you know the question for me becomes like how do you cultivate that you know what practices what what can we do you know to it's like I have all these ideals

that I want to embody and then I sometimes find myself struggling with what practices can I use to really facilitate the embodiment and enactment

of you know my values do you have any thoughts I mean I've got tons of thoughts on that I

forget thoughts I got feelings I got thoughts I got I don't

knows I got a lot of things for that but uh I you know I personally have been practicing the the science of laughter and I say practicing the science of laughter

right because it is a practice right it's like a muscle um we kind of get turned off I mean got to think about this Brooke how many

times do and listeners out there how many times do you think babies laugh in a day like babies up to like one years old what do you think I have no idea 300 times

a day okay did you know that babies laugh even if they're deaf and and

blind so so we're not learning to laugh it is actually a physiological action that we're doing the deaf and blind baby is

not hearing it or seeing it right they're laughing because it's a part of our innate physiological structure right so we laugh for a lot of reasons and there

might be profound reasons for that because when you study laughter you're like wait it improves your immune system improves your endocrine system improves your you know

it it brings down your sub your your wanting of dopamine so you release

your own dopamine so if you have substance abuse or social media abuse so all these different things laughter is hacking all those by the way laughter makes your sex

better too because if you laugh more you're gonna have better blood flow you're also going to be preventing maybe premature ejaculation that's all another conversation

but throwing out a lot of those things laughter has to be practiced so what you're saying is like hey if you're going through stuff okay one day laughter

might work because you feel good but another day you might be faced with some challenges question is can you then practice when you get faced with the challenges

can you practice laughter or some sense of just laughing at the problem before you address it it's not ignoring the problem but maybe you laugh

at something that bothers maybe somebody cuts you off on the road and you laugh and you make a joke out of it you be witty about it and you'd be like oh that

person probably has to go take a poop really badly that's why they're cutting me off right we're such creative Innovative Innovative beings and we're and

some of us are funny Brooke you're funny right other people are funny we can make a joke when a lot of times we are just angry and we use our intellect

to her like hurt ourselves but we're not actually like transmuting the situation it's nothing to do with us maybe it's not even that important but we take on so

much by not turning it into a joke and laughing about it in fact now we're overly sensitive about jokes you see in the world how people are like not being able to

laugh and then now they're being controlling and demonstrative and oh my God weird stuff happens when we don't laugh um well how powerful I had no idea all

those health benefits what you said about dopamine was really interesting and I'm also aware that it increases Bagel tone to laugh so that's you know help

helps with trauma and resiliency uh so very cool hearing about that now when you

talk about practicing the science you know the science of laughter but practicing laughter tell me what you mean by that how do you practice how do you build

that muscle well before I even answer that I I do I have started something this year that I would love for you and your followers that kind

of you know tune in if you want to now if it's kind of weird it's okay I get it it's kind of weird but I'm I'm one of my mentors encouraged me to

start hashtag 2023 year of laughter that let's make this year a year that we

practice laughter and we do it use it in different ways and we'll explore what happens let's see how big it gets I don't know it might be super small it

might turn into something really big but um laughter you know in that way like practicing

laughter it's it's about like finding different ways to access laughter you know when I get in groups and we I do I do these laughter um I

call them neuroplasticity meditations right neuroplasticity laughter play shops and I've done it with like corporations I've done it with

non-profits I've done it at conferences and everything and what happens is I love to create a space where people also add their practice of laughter or their ideas

of laughter and it's so fun to like to like hold space for creativity around ways for us to be resilient that being said you know a great practice

that I like is when you're late like you ever you ever you ever get late for Stuff Brooke never you're never late I'm always I'm always late

I totally I totally am always late I'm really bad I'm notoriously bad about being

on time so the question Brooke is when we're late and we stress out do we go do we get

anywhere faster does this time speed up when we stress out but what happens to

our body in our mind when we stress tension pressure stress and friction do we make better decisions when we're stressed no so that's why sometimes

people get in crashes or maybe they forget something at home or whatever like the stress actually messes makes the whole scenario worse right I

was just thinking about like the God's eye view of our lives and how silly like

we get so stressed out about being 10 minutes late to a meeting um you know and it's like

just the absurdity of the things that bring us so much suffering really I mean suffering may be a little bit strong but just like

the things that deprive us of the beauty and presence of our lives are so trivial

and we get so wrapped up in the drama uh and the meaning of that we place on

these things that it's just really I think one practice that I'd like to you

know Implement as I'm talking is just kind of zooming out like 10 years from now is it going to matter that I was late for this meeting so let's actually practice

that all your listeners can try this out too okay right let's do a PR let's do a practice of laughter that we can practice right so it's like it might not be

perfect right now we'll practice it when you have a jump shot a three-point shot you don't just automatically make three pointers you got to go and practice to be

good at it right so let's practice this laughter for being late and by the way put a pin in it what you were just saying right

now put a pin on where we're gonna come back to this unnecessary suffering versus suffering

a necessary suffering okay put that on the side okay so let's say we're late for something

let's say next time we're 10 minutes late Brooke all right we're let let's track this let's open up our VOC chords and we're just gonna laugh at the situation

of being late so here's what you're gonna do you go like this look at your phone look at your watch or your phone or whatever let me see let me see you look

at your phone or your your watch or whatever you're like oh open up your vocal cords Brooke oh foreign [Music]

right so you

got it I got it so so the next time when you're late right make this

whatever you want it's a practice maybe you don't want to throw your arms maybe you want to go like this maybe you want to do some other action but my encouragement

is to like it's almost like a psychic release too because when we're building up stress and tension we're getting more rigid our bodies are

getting more firm in fact we're restricting our blood vessels so that's where heart attacks might generate from right okay yeah to fact check that before

you continue okay it's really important I heard a TED talk about this and it's actually a myth that stress causes health issues it's only what this

researcher found who was who was advertising that for many years she actually found that

stress only causes health issues if you believe it causes health issues and so it's really uh destructive actually to perpetuate the

myth that stress causes health issues because then people believe it and it actually comes true uh so I just wanted to inter interject that but the question question

of is when we do when we are engaging in some habit or practice that is

hurting ourselves and it's not really improving the conditions of what we're in the situation we're in of course it might be wise to try something completely on the

other end to see to see in yourself does that actually bring you to a place of homeostasis because ideally we want to be in homeostasis and

Brooke would you would you agree I think so yeah I think and I often think about

the relationship between nervous system regulation and spiritual awakening awareness it's like is you know being deeply present and spiritually connected is it just

a function of mastering the nervous system and being really grounded and centered in our being sure yeah and a part of mastering that nervous system

might be that when you are getting scared or angry or frustrated or whatever that you have something you can use you could to a tool or some tools you

can use or adapt in that moment because it might never be the same moment again it'll just be a different situation but can you adapt your tool

for them exactly um a collaborator who I speak to a lot is John verbatian he talks about having an Ecology of practices I think that

that's beautiful it's like how do we develop this diversification of the ways that we can re relate to life in ways that are Nimble and you know like

different tools for different things and I think that that's one of the damaging things about the self-help culture is that each modality just wants to paint such

a broad brush because that's what you can sell because here's this one thing here's three steps to transformation and this is the way and this is the only thing

you need and then you're going to be fine and 9.99 9.99 every month you'll get it all right right it's really about developing this like robust anti-fragile ecosystem of practices that we can you know draw from

at different points in time and then learning what is most effective and when and and practicing

and what you talked about about the you know shooting three-pointers and and Mastery it's like it's something that's so endemic to our

Western culture is this myth that if you just understand something intellectually you should

be able to just get it and do it it's like I got certified though Brooke I got certified I think nothing hurts nothing works like that it's like

you don't show up to your first piano lesson and expect to you know play a complex Symphony you don't expect to start you know to do a sport the first time

and be a master at any sport or any you know graphic design but I'm a shaman now because I win I got a ceremony you know like I'm certified my Shaman certified me right but you know but even just that's one a whole different topic that you can I could you know pull that thread but I won't um but I'm more alluding to this idea that we think that oh I understand these

spiritual ideas so now I should just be able to to live and embody them and it's like no spirituality is like anything else it's a you know skill it's a muscle that

builds over time with practice and I for one I know I'm so guilty of just wanting

that quick you know way to to Enlightenment and it's like no this is something

you have to master over a lifetime how ridiculous that we think and this isn't just for spiritualities for psychology too like people think oh I understand

my problems so I should be able to break all these psychological patterns it's like these things have been you know practiced and embodied and

enacted for you know however old you are you know for for decades for most of us and we

expected to snap our fingers and and be rid of them like it just doesn't make any sense and yet that's how people think and that's part of what's so

self-defeating in people's approaches is if if they have that mentality then they're going to give up before they even start right exactly and you know I'm

glad you're saying that too because there is a funny element here you said the word spirituality several times right so you know their spirituality but

when you come from the Eastern perspective like especially where I'm from in India whether you come from the sikki perspective The Vedic perspective

spirituality talks about the interrelatedness of everything the interconnectedness of it

which is a very ecological way of thinking right like we are literally sharing we're all Stardust we're all eat the same we eat the soil

the air we breathe the breathe out like I mean we're literally interconnected from a scientific point of view not even from a spiritual one right so that's what

we mean in the East or in indigenous communities in the west spirituality has been kind of more connected I'm clearly generalizing but like there's

a little bit more connection to like like religion and like that kind of structure now if we come from that space of spirituality being interconnectedness

interrelatedness here's a crazy hack for you Brooke and not just for you for your listeners out there anybody out there who's struggling with mental illness or mental

health right if we are interconnected from a scientific perspective anyone else is suffering is also our own suffering so you can't be

comfortable sitting anywhere in a place of comfort and if there is anywhere there's unnecessary suffering happening it's not like oh it's just an animal eating

another animal because they eat it but there's actually suffering happening because of the system that's causing suffering there is no way you're not

going to feel Dr Gabor mate talks about this John verbank you brought him up talks about the systems problems there's a few people now are starting to finally speak

up that the system itself is causing so much suffering that if we don't impact that system we're even if we're comfortable we're still going to

be experiencing some sort of weird thing because we're connected to everything now that's we can go and dive into that deeper but that's a hack for everyone that

if you want to feel better go and be of service for those who are less fortunate and see what happens just see for yourself how do you feel absolutely and you

know I think a lot and talk a lot about this relationship between self and other that really there's not a differentiation that that so much of that

is taught it's a it's a learned way of perceiving the world and just as you can learn it you can unlearn it and and as you begin to unlearn it and unmask you know

the fundamental nature of reality and Consciousness and being you discover

that you know you're not separate from anyone else and so as you say you know anyone who's suffering is contributing to your suffering uh there's not this kind

of false dichotomy between people or between us and the world that we've learned this kind of Cartesian you know mind-body dualism um self

other dualism self life self-world dualism you know the these kind

of uh this this myth of Separation that most of us in the west have been you

know unconsciously indoctrinated into and that we live out um and it's it's

you know what's interesting to me is that the materialist frame is being disproven by people at the Forefront of physics I'm not talking

about like the new age people who have no no we're talking about actual Quantum scientists Donald Hoffman who's yeah and and and what

physicists are saying is that you know you can't measure space-time below I think it's like 10 to the minus 33 or minus 43 meters per second squared it's like I think I don't know it's it's I'm getting it wrong it's like 10 to the 10.33 meters and then like 10.43 seconds or it's like that might change too

depending on what instrument you're using to take it anyway well I guess what they're saying is it's actually impossible like that's where it breaks down like there's not actually a way that that space time can exist and so what Hoffman is doing is he's trying to find a way which is just sort of Bonkers to

me that this is even possible but he's basically finding a way to map out what's beneath space-time which how do you how do you measure something outside of space-time

but somehow he's able to measure like and I don't understand this at all um but like some kind of offshoot of it and his and his his you know model he's what

he's hoping to create is something that in which we can predict Consciousness so his idea is that Consciousness is the fundamental ontological substrate of reality and that

space-time is actually a projection that is you know and and it's like he's doing the math on this and he's trying to create predictive models of Consciousness

where he's like if this is to be scientifically rigorous we have to be able to have a predictive element to it that also doesn't lose our previous

models of reality in the way that you know relativity and Einstein's work with

special relativity doesn't negate Newtonian physics it's it transcends and includes newtonians

right and so that's kind of his idea and it's just like wow that's so beautiful because that's what all the ancient spiritual Traditions

that's what the neoplatonic that's what the the Buddhists have have talked about maybe the Egyptians before they got you know take you know maybe the maybe the the

vedics maybe the Mayans right sure I just am not familiar enough with all these different Traditions to speak to them I'm absolutely I'm sure but it's like this

is what you know spiritual uh Traditions have been talking about for centuries

is that this is an illusion what we think is real is not real shamanic Traditions non-ordinary reality versus ordinary reality I love I love that terminology

as someone who's passionate about words too I feel like you could appreciate this you know I love the terminology of non-ordinary reality because

it's not saying you know it's it's saying that that's equally real it's not it's not like this is real and that's this even words like imagine

will sort of make it sound like that's imaginative that's the not real place

but actually there's an inversion I think for people who talk about noetic Consciousness for example that this is the dream and that's reality right I like the

ordinary and non-ordinary reality that's cool I like that because I like it's like they're both real and they're but they're just different kinds of reality

and that really resonates with my experience yeah and it's interesting too from um from I can't speak to the other indigenous cultures

but I do find myself uh quickly making relationships with people from other you

know traditions because we have shared perspectives on reality which is kind of cool but this

idea that um that actually all the information in the universe is already

inside of us like you don't need to act you don't need to go to a book or you need to go to the Internet even you don't you don't need to go find make it

develop an instrument to like look what's out in the stars or look what's in the in the molecules between us actually you can access that information if

you sit still and you listen and you really go with it and you get out of the external sensory world and you go within and then you can access a whole database

that has always existed and maybe even what's going to exist as well like maybe maybe if

time is also a relative maybe we can access time Future Past everything as well I don't know I don't know though I'm not going to say listen Brooke I'm not certified

so I can't say anything I'm not certified this other Collective

of physicists are doing some research on what's called emergence Theory which I discovered because I originally called my model emergence

Theory and so someone sent this my way um and there they talk about you know

this model of space-time that is again I can't even like explain this stuff

because I'm not a physicist at all um but they basically talk about the illusory nature

nature of time which you know Einstein said for those of us who understand physics time is but a stubbornly persistent illusion Brooke

what did one Adam what did what Adam say to another atom that was kind of feeling a little depressed and sad what you matter oh that's good

um do you are you familiar with David bone um we had hosted this panel uh uh

infinite potential you should watch this documentary it's called infinite potential David but was it a few scientists in the 30s 40s 50s and 1900s who

was against the nuclear proliferation nuclear bombs and he was like outspoken about it he kind of got like shoved to the side because the

military industrial complex was like no we want to do this stuff so he even though he was one of the top physicists in the world studying incredible stuff about

potential like how like the power in every in every atom and the power that's existent all around us and kind of tesla-esque right um but you should watch

this documentary I recommend infinite potential as somebody who loves physics um here's like and he's not he wasn't

like he was friends with you know um friends with Einstein and everything so uh we hosted

this panel and we had kids on the panel the scientists neuroscientists and physicists and we and we had kids on the panel as well

because you know in my opinion I feel kids to have we don't give kids enough credit and

enough love and enough attention um especially right now with what's going on around the world in our own communities not even not even in other

places but like in our backyards but also that maybe the wisdom of children is more

profound than the wisdom of potentially of phds and experts right there's

sometimes there's some Simplicity in their wisdom uh before you even go dive that dive down dive down that thing Brooke I got a question for you

um it why are there no why are there very few child or kid

um wisdom leaders in the west um in in India you know in I'm sick in the city tradition

we had a guru that was a seven-year-old Guru right who was big into ayurveda and he like was a big time healer we had there are many

bodhisattvas who were kids um there were many Buddhas right The Reincarnation Buddha that were kids uh Krishna was a kid right and there's a lot

of stories of him doing a lot of stuff so there's a lot of Mythology around the power and the wisdom of children and why we need to respect them and

love them where is that in Western Traditions or Western psychology that's

such an interesting question and I you know have no idea to be perfectly honest and yet

I could speculate uh it seems like probably it might be related to kind

of some of this Western stuff that that we were speaking to earlier in terms of how we frame the world so if you know knowledge Edge and and

intellectual understanding if that's the premise of what we think is wisdom which is certainly not you know in fact it can be at odds with true wisdom and embodied

wisdom and and living our values right that that intellect can actually I mean it can't facilitate it but it can also impede it right and so but mostly in our culture

we think of these things as related and so of course we're going to dismiss children who don't know anything about you know these complex

philosophical ideas um and I love what you're saying and I love that you had children on the panel because there is such a purity and innocence

and wonder and joy that it's like if we're being real that's all we're

all trying to come back to like that's if I had a definition of self-actualization it would be to recover my childlike innocence perhaps like that when

we're talking earlier about spirituality and play and Mastery and you know it's it's like you know if we can look to Children if we can become like

children and that's actually a very you know New Testament idea right from the mouths of babes and become like a child yeah you know be like a child and you shall

enter Heaven right right so I think it's beautiful what you're sharing and I had no idea about these child leaders and and gurus and and other

cultures so that's fascinating to me and you know I think about you know one of

the things that I meditate on quite often is my uh four-year-old niece who I just adore

and love and um as I when I think about cultivating Joy

I just imagine her running around giggling at the top of her lungs just you know so just uh so just delighted by simple things in life and uh I want to be

in Greater study of that so I appreciate the invitation uh to think about

how I can Apprentice myself more to Children you know really like like who do we who do we aspire to be like and then how do we Apprentice ourselves

to them how do we learn from them because often I find that the people I study are not

people who are embodying the values that I set out to live so it's like why am I studying from people who are telling me something with their

minds but I don't actually see their kindness I don't know you'll feel it I don't yeah I don't experience their play I don't experience their Joy um that's that's

kind of interesting to me it's like well what are you doing Brooke why are you putting your energy into trying to you know because it feels

like a red herring perhaps yeah okay if that's the right way to think about it it feels like a diversion like oh here's my comfortable um here's my comfortable approach

to spirituality let me listen to this you know totally intellectual and I think that those Phil that philosophical inquiry can afford a genuine spiritual

experience I think it's one approach and yet again it's like sort of the comfortable Western

intellectual approach that I find very non-threatening to my actual like daily habits and I'm noticing that I want to be

a little bit more disciplined and diligent about you know how do I actually get more comfortable being uncomfortable and changing changing how I spend my time each

day because if my if my daily life isn't reflective of my values of how I spend

my time isn't reflective of what I say I value yeah I am fundamentally

living I don't want to say a lie that feels a little strong but living in common alignment

with my yeah I'm living in Conflict out of alignment with my my true authentic expression so that's a big part of what I am constantly looking at

is how do I kind of you know reorient recalibrate integrate you know more and more

of what I value into my daily life and how I spend my time yeah and you know if if you were to title this episode anything I I what I would love

to explore more and maybe we can keep having these discussions but I I find it quite troubling

in our Zeitgeist of psychology and therapy in the west which is

a very Colonial patriarchal like substantially lots of blind spots right in

therapy um and one of the problems I find is there's a clear lack of appreciation

acknowledgment of karma like or karma is the right word Karma right and Karma is not just a negative thing it could be a positive thing but we often

don't account like we're sharing for interconnected and there's any unnecessary suffering happening out in the world you could talk about values

as much as you want but if the outside there's homeless people and there's children suffering and whatever it is whatever you care about whatever

whatever triggers you you know and you're not leaning into that trigger by actually being of service you're actually building up Karma because you have

if you have if you're intelligent and you're intellectual and you have resources and you have connections you could do a lot I mean there's people who don't

have anything that are doing stuff so people who have resources and contacts and pedigrees

holy cow you could you could like you can like reverse the course of hundreds of thousands of people with that power mind

you you don't know what kind of karma your ancestors have been carrying whether they're whatever side they were on maybe they sold out their family to slavery

or maybe they harmed other communities right you're also carrying that inside of you we know epigenetically we carry the trauma but

we could also be carrying and antagonism also within us right we could also be carrying

apathy within us we'd also be carrying Bliss and Ecstasy with us in moments of incredible chivalry and incredible Humanity those

are also in our genetics right so by accessing these truths about Humanity that have cultivated

us to survive and exist and be resilient these Community Health Collective Health uh Collective Liberation right those things are not separate

from our individual Liberation right we're just a one drop of the ocean right so if we're not if we're ignoring government psychology we're like ignoring cause and effect

we're ignoring physics you know like no yeah a simple kind of way to think about karma from my perspective and this is probably incomplete

but is just the old idea that you reap what you sow right it's not people think of it as like punitive often yeah but that's like one that's only one side

of it right well it's a western you know bastardization of you know

the idea when actually really it's really just you know you you give what

you get it's really I call it the reflection principle it's like you know everything outside of us is reflecting something inside of us and that there's

kind of this constant feedback from life that is showing us about how we're showing up and who we are and is giving us constant feedback that we can look at and

integrate you know to expand our awareness to you know and to continue growing

and to continue kind of shedding the layers and dying to you know the you

know damaging ideas or the ego or you know all of this this false stuff that gets in the way of us understanding our true nature and um our our related you know

our interconnectedness to the world yeah and and you Karma Yoga like my greatest download

in my life is my my family my my mom who's like a saint and my dad who is no matter what he was going even though he was like an alcoholic he did embody those

values of Karma Yoga proactive go to my yoga like that's what I witnessed in my life that if you're proactive about serving other people

that are less fortunate if you're proactive about giving if you're proactive before taking right if you're proactive in these spaces you get beautiful

things back to you like it's not it's not extractive like to be

practicing Karma Yoga in a proactive way doesn't actually detract from your your

abundance it actually gives you the kind of abundance that also includes the community that also includes safety that also includes like you feel better holistically

right like that's why it's quote you know the old saying it's more blessed to give than to receive it's actually that giving is an act of generosity to the

self you know there's something so beautiful and Rich about you know being about offering yourself in service about giving generously of your

time resources attention you know whatever it is that you have to give there's something deeply Rich about that when it comes from an authentic and

present place and so yeah I've been thinking about you know really really wanting to start volunteering again because I stopped because I was I was volunteering

before covet and then I stopped and um you know because everything was closed and it's like now it's not built into my schedule and uh I just realized

that there's something so pure in just connecting with people who are in need

and being and offering yourself in service and it just reminds you of what matters like when I do an exercise of you know if I had all the you know money and

time in the world um if I if I didn't have any sort of constraints around resources how would I spend my time and I'm like I think it would just

be volunteering like it would just be I mean not not only like I would also do some things with friends and family but but really like I'm like wow

I think that would be a lot more of how I spend my time so how can I instead of thinking oh I don't have enough time how can I you know build this into my life because

it is a value and sure we can see we could see it also in our personal relationships with people just individual really like when we are in that space of like

loving the person by like just being of service to that person how beautiful is that how beautiful does that relationship grow when it's reciprocal right

it's like this incredible infinity loop of Love um you know can we create that with the people on the street can we create it

with the children can we create it with our brothers and sisters that might be going through some trauma and maybe even some difficult things right now you know all

around us Well India it's been such a pleasure to

have you I'm so glad you're able to to join me today and I'm looking forward to continue conversations have a wonderful rest of your afternoon thank you Brooke thanks

for having me on appreciate it God of my yoga practice y'all

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