The Irish Hunting Podcast

Episode 98 A plant based past, A carnivore future

Anthony and Rob Episode 97

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This week we chat with Kristeva Dowling , a former Vegan turned Hunter , who discusses how social and emotional pressures turned her towards a vegan lifestyle only to learn how doing so compounded what she was trying to achieve , and how turning to hunting and regenerative , sustainable methods of living from the land led to her award winning Mead making business , writing books , blogging and self curing some serious health issues . If you want to learn how combining hunting , meat eating and sustainably sourced foods can really help the worlds crippling health issues , listen up !!!!

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Anthony Grogan: And finally, Chris, David Dowling, very welcome to the Irish Phantom Podcast, thanks, a million for joining us.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, man, thanks for having me so! It's a pleasure.

 

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Anthony Grogan: This is really cool. Myself. And Robert were just talking during the week

 

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Anthony Grogan: we have we follow your page, obviously with with great enthusiasm. I'm a big fan of your

 

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Anthony Grogan: homemade mead. Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, okay.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Anthony Grogan: yeah, it's kind of. I used to make my own wine many, many moons ago, and all different brews and concoctions not near as good as yours or as professional. But yeah, it's it's very, very interesting. So you've you've

 

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Anthony Grogan: that's the what would you say? The real throwback to the original wine, isn't it the mead.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, yes, yep. Meat is the oldest alcohol known to man.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Not a man. Yeah, and we're we're slight fans of that, aren't we, Robert?

 

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Sean Treacy: Have a table every now and again. Yeah.

 

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Anthony Grogan: That's cool.

 

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Sean Treacy: You ship all the way around the world, or you just stay in the States.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: As long as your country allows it to come in. Then. Yes, I can.

 

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Sean Treacy: Well, we'll we will have to sample.

 

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Sean Treacy: Place an order.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yes.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, it's new.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Do.

 

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Sean Treacy: So, Christina, what do you recommend, Christa?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: From my meat.

 

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Sean Treacy: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, one of the things that my main goal with the mead is to capture the taste of Alberta in every bottle, so everything that that grows wild in nature is what sort of drives my recipes. So for you folks, you probably don't know what saskatoon berries are. No.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: so that would be one because they grow wild here. My berries borealis is a mixture of all the fruits that grow wild in Alberta, so it's got saskatoon hascat, blueberry, blackberry, strawberry, and then the I do once. Dandelion is probably my most awarded mead.

 

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Sean Treacy: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And then I actually just released what's it called Rocky Mountain maple. So very Canadian maple syrup it's made with maple syrup and honey.

 

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Anthony Grogan: So the dandelion one, that's but because that's kind of like

 

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Anthony Grogan: that'll be healthy alcohol, wouldn't it?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, my gosh! It's cleaning your liver while you drink.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah. You see where I'm going with this.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Actually, it's interesting that you bring that up. So each mead, depending on what it's made from so like a straight mead that just has honey is called the traditional, but once you add herbs or spices, it's called a methaclan, which is from the old English word medicine.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Very good, very good.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: The dandelion is a Methaglin, and that's historically their recipes were built to for medicinal value.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And so methadone.

 

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Anthony Grogan: I'm telling you. If you set up a shop over here, you're gonna.

 

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Sean Treacy: Yeah.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Clean up, clean up

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It'd be fun.

 

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Anthony Grogan: I suppose you've a hugely interesting story, Christina. So like, I suppose, tell us about your formative years, how you know where you grew up, and your your childhood and stuff like that interest, and so on. So on, like that growing up. Because that's, gonna I suppose, lead into.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And the middle part of your life, and so on. So take us back a little bit. Where did you grow up and talk a little bit about your your upbringing, if you don't mind.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Sure. So I was born in Vancouver.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: mostly raised just on the outskirts in a little town called Coquitlam, which has now been engulfed by the greater Vancouver area, so grew up in the city. But like the 1st time that my dad took me to a farm, one of the guys that he worked with lived out in Langley, which at the time was very rural from Vancouver, about an hour out.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and like

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I saw the farm, I saw the cows. I saw the big red barn and the hay loft, and I just was smitten, and I think I probably pestered my dad all the way home, please, Daddy, can we have a farm, please, Daddy? And he was like not in your life. So at I left home young, and I left Vancouver area right away. And I was teaching. I actually taught Scuba diving all over the province of British Columbia and Alberta for 6 years, and so very

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: out in all the rural and remote towns and small lakes, and so forth. So I think the whole farming

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: pioneer desires. Just somehow, in my DNA

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: my family looks at me like, where on earth did you come from? Because they're still all in the city. They're very like, I'm like 180 degrees from the rest of them. And then, yeah, then I moved to New Zealand, and I did my master's degree down there and lived very rurally, and that's where I met Tony, the Greek. He was a neighbor, like in a neighbor in a rural area. I have bought 3 acres, and and he taught me about

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: growing food, and he gave me my 1st little chicken starter kit, which was like 2 hens and rooster.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I learned a ton from him every time I went to his place like he was making brandy he was making doing olives like I harvest. The 1st time I'd ever harvested olives was at Tony, the Greeks, and then he made his own olives, and he made his own cheese, and and it just like

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: inspired me so much to have met him, and and it gets, you know. I think I don't know what it's like over there, but the public health

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and kind of the fear mongering around food, safety, and so forth, made me

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: scared to try doing that sort of stuff like oh, my gosh! I might kill myself! I might poison.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Myself.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Something like that. So then, to meet somebody who's doing all those things and eating his things and not dying.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: you know it. It made it accessible, and it made it real, and it made it like, Hey, we can actually do that.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And I did my Master's degree in anthropology, social anthropology down there. So I kind of

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: learned human evolution and history. And how really, when you think about all of our ancestors, we all were carnivore. Primarily, people have this fantasy that oh, we were hunter! Gather! It's not a fantasy, the fantasy piece of hunter gatherers. Yes, we were hunter gatherers, but

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: we weren't collecting vegetables that we know today. We were like eating shoots and leaves and.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Where are we?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Primarily a large ruminant

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: beef, not beef, but a large ruminant meat, was our primary source of fat and protein.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So yeah, went through that whole trajectory, then came back to Canada, and then I got a job

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: in a hospital, and then pretty soon stayed there for 6 years, and that's when I wrote my book.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So I met a man, Clarence, bless his heart and Rip. He's now passed, but he was a World War 2 vet from America, and he brought his

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: sons, his 7 children, up to Bella Coola because he wanted to keep them out of the draft.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: He was very anti-war even when he was in the war he he actually asked to be

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: part of the medical corps because he didn't want to kill anybody.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: He was. He became the cougar hunter. So in the village that I lived in, it's called Bella Coola. There is a high number of

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: large predators like grizzly bears back black bears, cougars, and the cougars sort of started becoming a problem.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So anyway, I went to him when I decided I wanted to learn to hunt, because I thought, who better this man, who, you know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: really hunts that whole family sort of lived like a pack of wolves, and I say that with great reverence for them. It's not a or anything. They work together, they garden together, they harvested together, they hunted together, and and or did like the men did the hunt, but the women did all the canning and the processing, and all that sort of stuff, and then they spread it about. They spread it out among themselves.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So yeah, when I decided I wanted to write the book, I went to Clarence, and I said, Would you please teach me to hunt?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And oh, my gosh! The smile on his face! He reached out his hand. He's like, my dear. I would love to teach you how to get your 1st moose.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I'm thinking prairie chicken

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like I didn't think I wanted to hunt a moose. I was thinking, I just want to know I can shoot something. So I was.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Pears and eaters. Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, that's it. So, anyway. Then, when I said that, the look of disgust on his face, I felt about this big because he said. You know, that's not going to feed you

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like you need. If you're gonna learn to hunt, you're gonna learn to hunt

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: something that's gonna get you through the winter.

 

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Anthony Grogan: If you can hunt a moose, you can pretty much hunt the rest of them. Then, after that you're self-sustainable. Then after that.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Absolutely.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: absolutely. And you learn so much when you're hunting a moose. But you also, you get one moose, and you feed

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: a family and a half or 2 for a winter, you know. That's

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: you suddenly have 1,500 pounds of.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Of good meat.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Don't!

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, and you're just going back a small bit there. You said about like, obviously, there's there's

 

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Anthony Grogan: all kinds of influx now, of information, you know whether or not we were carnivore, omnivore, or vegetarian all this kind of. And there's a lot of depending on what day you go on Google and stuff. There's all kinds of information flying around.

 

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Anthony Grogan: It's my, take on it. I want to get yours. Obviously, you're well.

 

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Anthony Grogan: far more informed and educated than I. But

 

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Anthony Grogan: would I be correct in saying that research

 

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Anthony Grogan: would would suggest that we we predominantly used? You know we foraged for, or we foraged as we hunted. So in other words, we we use berries and wild herbs and vegetables, and so on.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Obviously, not as we as we use them now. But back in the day while we hunted our large game. Would that be correct?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, except for coming through the Ice Age. Of course.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: when we came through the Ice Age there was no fauna flora anymore, and the anthropological evidence actually shows that humans didn't run away from the ice age. We ran onto the ice.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So we ran onto the ice chasing the big game.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: knowing that that is really vegetables are not going to sustain you, we need access to fat, high.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And so.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Caloric food to get you through a winter.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Okay? Interesting.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Our. This is another misconception. Our people think that we're

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: primarily carbohydrate burners. And we're not. We're actually ketogenic fat burners

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like even a baby when it's brand new born. It's in a state of ketogenesis. And when you breastfeed it's keeps it maintains that state of Ketogenesis, and that's actually what our brains are made to

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: the energy source, and they function the best when they're in a state of ketosis.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Our ketones are what actually feeds our brains better than carbohydrates. Yes, if you start eating carbs and they're there, they go into your bloodstream, your blood can only hold 4 to 5 grams of carbs, and then some in your liver, and some into your muscles. But after that, and that's only about 20,000 calories worth.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: which is why long distance runners and so forth need to keep eating glucose packs and all those things while they're running, because they're they're primarily carb burners, and they run out and they call it the wall.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: wall, because their body then has used up. You've only got 90 min of of carbohydrate energy in your body at any one time, whereas if you are a fat burner, if you're a keto keto in your it's in a state of ketosis. You have over a hundred 1,000 calories worth.

 

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Sean Treacy: Okay, is that the type of player

 

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Sean Treacy: is that the type of dog?

 

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Sean Treacy: I mean.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: To call it a diet, because it's really the way we should be living. It's a way of life. Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: yeah, no. And there was a fellow from Australia actually, who went to prove this fact, and he

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: from Monday to Friday he did a Marathon every day

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: in a fasted Ketogenic state, so he didn't eat for those 5 days, and he ran 2526 miles. What is a marathon? 26 miles, I think.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: every day, and he wasn't a long distance runner to start with.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And it's interesting, because that's like.

 

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Anthony Grogan: yes, I've been, as you probably see, I'm not exactly the slimmest person in the world, but I try to maintain some kind of semblance. So I can, you know, hunt relatively easily when the season comes around, but

 

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Anthony Grogan: so like. Take, for instance, yesterday I do I try and fast, you know so, and then I'll but

 

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Anthony Grogan: the problem is I I love Pastas. I love breads, you know, and I love making my own breads, and so on, and so I make. I made Focaccia yesterday, and of course, as I, as I come out of the oven, you know you start to.

 

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Anthony Grogan: but when I eat like those type of carbohydrates, the pastas and the breads, and so on. Then I tend to want to go to sleep. I don't want to get up, and you know, whereas I, when I eat meat and I'm not, I'm not. This is just me. I don't know whether this happens, but when I eat meat I don't get that

 

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Anthony Grogan: I'm far more likely to be active after I eat meat rather than when I eat breads and stuff I tend to want to pan out. Is that relating to what you're saying? There is, is.

 

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Anthony Grogan: or or am I getting? That? Is that just me.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: No, no, that's a hundred. I mean, they talk about. It's like a you know people joke about. Oh, I've got my diabetic coma now, because I've got so much glucose in bloodstream, and when you eat carbs like when you think about it. So if your body can only handle 4 grams of carbs, 4 grams of carbs is 4 radishes.

 

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Anthony Grogan: So.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 4 grams of carbs is one square of 95% lint chocolate.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So when you have a pasta dinner and some and who doesn't have their spaghetti with garlic bread, you know. All of a sudden you've probably taken in 150 to 200 grams of carbs. Your body can only handle 4 grams in your bloodstream, a little bit more in your liver.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Your muscles are probably already full, because you've never burnt it all off. That's the other piece you never do. Which is why the intermittent fasting is good, because it forces your body to at least burn off what's in your blood.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Anything over and above that, that once your once your muscles are full and your bloodstream is full and your liver's full. That's when you put on fat.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Sean Treacy: When did you put into this lifestyle, Christine?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Goodye.

 

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Sean Treacy: Did you actually change into this type of lifestyle? Were you always

 

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Sean Treacy: like this? Or was there a particular time or incident that actually made you change to this type of like stuff.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It was sort of a long, steady trajectory. Really. So when I was younger I did so. That's partly what my book is about is the trajectory, not only from city girl to sustainable farmer, but from vegetarian. I was vegetarian. I went vegan, and then I went the full circle to O, and so it started with

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: when I was when I was younger. I just thought, Oh, I love the animals. I don't want to hurt, you know. Probably a very typical person who was raised omnivore trajectory into Vegan didn't want to or wanted to save. The animals didn't want to hurt them. Then, when you really start getting more educated about being vegetarian, you start realizing, especially in the industrial food production system, you realize that the land of dairy and eggs is really horrific the way those animals are kept.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: etc. So that drove me to being in a Vegan, and then I was probably Vegan for about 4 years, and at that time I had started my education. And so 2 things culminated at the same time. One. I ended up becoming dangerously low in B. 12.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And what happens when you get dangerous? Dangerously low in B 12 is your myelin sheath of your axon starts demyelinating. So you start getting nerve problems and and it mimics Ms.

 

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Sean Treacy: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So the doctor said, Okay, you've got you've got 2 choices. Go back and start eating meat or come in for weekly B 12 shots.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And I thought, well, weekly B, 12 shots. Obviously, that's not sustained, like, clearly, we are not meant to be Vegan. If

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: yeah, highly supplement yourself.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And that's the thing like. So I have. I have no issue 0 issue with anyone being either vegetarian or vegan or

 

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Anthony Grogan: problem. I do have it, because, like, you're not the 1st person I've talked to about this, and

 

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Anthony Grogan: and who has experienced issues with with that particular style of of living, you know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Why has it been driven so hard like it reminds me of kind of like the, you know, the push for the cereals back in the eighties or seventies eighties and the sugar. It's kind of like, oh, this is. Eat your your cereal in the morning. It's good for you, and then there's there's a picture of like, you know, the wheat grain. And it reminds me so much of that. You know where

 

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Anthony Grogan: it's obviously there's money. There must be huge money, because if you look at any of the big Vegan follower pages they have, you know, huge followings from from out of nowhere. And they've they've huge advertisement campaigns and so on. So is this. Is it money driven, or is it? Is it really, or is it ecological like? Is there? Is there a is there a goodness behind any of it, or is it just a money driven in your opinion?

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It's.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I think, from the bottom up, as in the people who are wanting and going vegan the way I did. I think they have a very. It's a very

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: altruistic idea, albeit a naive one.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Because, you know, for for one, let's just back up a bit. No society ever in the history of humanity has ever been vegan. Vegetarian. Yes, but they've still relied on animal products, be it their meat or milk.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: To survive that has existed. But no society has ever been Vegan. Veganism is really something that has come along with the advent of the industrial revolution.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: where you can actually manufacture the chemical supplements so that you can actually survive because you cannot survive on a vegan diet. We need

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: animal products. End of story. You can't get B 12 from anything other than an animal product, and there's like, heme iron is another one that yes, you can get iron, but it's not exactly bioavailable the way it is from an animal product. So there's that in turn, and I think you're spot on in terms of

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: farming.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Look who's taken over it's corporate agriculture. Now, it's industrial agriculture now, and it's more or less the ruling class who owns all of that. So they need, and want to make money. You you can't do much with meat or cheese to make to do a quote unquote added value

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like milk into cheese. Yes, but but grains. You can make it into bread. You can make it into pancakes. You can make it into crackers, cheese chips, all of the stuff

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: granola bars every. So there's major money to be made in the world of grain farming.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And just. It's after coming obviously with meat products. You know, they have a shelf life, a very quick shelf life, you know, before they? Whereas with the chemically produced material we're talking about.

 

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Anthony Grogan: obviously, you're you're you're elongating that so you can transport it around the world. You can. You can feed the masses with it for longer, you know. So obviously, then it's more profitable for for the big industries, the corporates, and so on.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Absolutely profitable, and the shelf life is a big one. I was actually listening to a podcast the other day, and I forget who it was. But anyway, it's 1 of these medical researchers in the carnivore world, and he bought a Twinkie

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 10 years ago, and it still looks like it did.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And we're eating that as if it's food

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like honestly, half of the stuff in the grocery store shouldn't even be considered food.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It's not a chemical conglomeration of food like product.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Funny enough, right before we come on here I was just I was talking to actually my sisters and my sister-in-laws and stuff we had. We were just chatting, and we're actually talking at dinner and stuff.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And we were just saying like, how

 

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Anthony Grogan: the disconnect between food, like they they kind of, you know there were there were.

 

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Anthony Grogan: They were slagging me a little bit in terms of, because our family eats, you know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: predominantly game, as you know, and it's

 

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Anthony Grogan: we don't. We try not to waste any food. So we you know that that kind of stuff live a kind of

 

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Anthony Grogan: as best we can, you know a sustainable lifestyle, and I'd have a big thing of you know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: you know. For instance, if we eat a chicken, you know we try and make use of the whole carcass, the stock, and and so on. And I believe that that's you know it's

 

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Anthony Grogan: that to me, is taking care of the animal, because it's it's I don't have to eat 3 of them, you know, for 3 different meals. I can make 3 different meals out of one of them, you know. So you're using it to the best of of your ability. So

 

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Anthony Grogan: but they were saying they were joking. Oh, sure, you guys are never sick, you know, and sure it's because of all the

 

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Anthony Grogan: and they were trying to rise up to heaven. The mad stuff, you see, you know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: that's the kind of disconnect I think that has. You know. They look at wild game now as

 

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Anthony Grogan: as you know, almost foreign object. You shouldn't, you know, whereas that's what

 

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Anthony Grogan: that's what we should be eating in my mind. Do you know what I'm trying to get at? It's like as if

 

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Anthony Grogan: this is, we're so far disconnected now from the food chain that they see wild animals as being as not

 

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Anthony Grogan: a part of a healthy, balanced lifestyle, whereas it probably.

 

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Sean Treacy: Not a food source. They don't see it as a food source unless it comes out of a shopping center wrapped in plastic.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Exactly which is so strange, you know, so strange.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 2 things to add to that. 1st of all, the on the shelf, wrapped in plastic. I think a lot of people don't even associate that with an animal that used to be standing on 4 legs walking around.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: There's 1. And the second thing is, I think Walt Disney has a lot to answer for in.

 

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Sean Treacy: Absolutely.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: You're in the forest and call it Mammy.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And I, you know, after I wrote my book and and I'd gone on the hunting trip, and I write about my, the big, the moose hunting trip in my in my book, and then I'm down visiting my family in Vancouver, went to neighbors for dinner, and there we are

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: eating ribs.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and over this, you know, steak and rib dinner. Somebody says you're not really going to eat Bambi, are you?

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I'm sorry. Do you not see the irony coming out of your mouth?

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: In as you're eating off a piece of rib like. What's the difference between Bambi and the

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and the industrial raised Feedlot cow that you're eating right now.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So people have a massive disconnect and honestly back to your earlier question of how I actually got here. So that's what that it brings me back to why I wrote the book. I wanted to be 100% in touch with my food. I wanted to cut out the middleman. I don't want to support. I don't want my money supporting the industrial agriculture complex. So I started raising my own food. And that's when I learned to hunt, and that's when I really got back to

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: more of an ancestral diet. But, like you, Anthony, I absolutely love making bread, and and that stuff, too. I've largely taken it out of my diet, but every now and then I do actually still use it. But I buy an ancient grain so red.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and then I do like I do the long slow, you know. It basically takes me 48 h to make my bread because I.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Do the proof first, st and so on, and so forth. So by the time that you're making a sourdough like that, a lot of the carbohydrates have been used up by the actual yeast in the bread, so.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And that's that's interesting.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Myself into it. Being it is.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, yes.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: but yeah, it's an it's a very infrequent thing that I do now rather than a daily.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Just talk us just that that particular point, because I know Rob is is, I think, are you starting your sourdough journey shortly, Robert.

 

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Sean Treacy: Yes, I am. I make all different types of bread, but Sourdough is the one that keeps on catching me just with the starter. I can't seem to keep the starter alive.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, what are you doing? Why not?

 

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Sean Treacy: I don't know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: What do you do?

 

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Anthony Grogan: I reckon he forgets about it, Robert. That's probably what you do. Yeah.

 

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Sean Treacy: There is a little bit of that, and then I don't feed it.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh!

 

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Sean Treacy: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, well, and if you're if you're not keeping it active, then feed it, get it bubbly and going, and then stuff. Put it in the fridge.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And keep for.

 

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Sean Treacy: It's my own fault. I'm just not proactive enough. I don't be minding it. I'm busy trying to do lots of other things as well, but I actually.

 

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Sean Treacy: I have a question for you. Since you changed to this lifestyle. Have you noticed any physical benefits? Have you noticed any bar to be 12 shots not having to get them. Have you noticed anything else? Increase in energy? Anything.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, yes, 100%, actually. So the other thing that I I've cured my own Rosacea, which the doctor said I kept going because, like my whole life. I've had

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: perfect, like beautiful skin. Even when I was a hormonal teenager I might get like one little pimple. But all of a sudden, a couple of years ago I was like

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: full on it looked like cystic acne on my face, and I was reacting to things in the, in the food system like Maltodextrin, and it took me 7 years to figure out that it was Maltodextrin.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And anyway, so I kept going to the doctor, and she's like, oh, it's just Rosacea. You'll just have to learn to management and figure out what foods are, you know, making it flare. And I thought that that can't be right like it's got to be linked to my gut. So then I went on this long journey, and and how I discovered the Maltodextrin was, I did a 5 day water fast.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and at the end of the 5 days, when I broke my fast I used an organic chicken bullion and one sip and my face started flaring. So it's a histamine reaction.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And so I looked on the ingredients because I thought, what on earth is causing this? It's an organic chicken bullion, anyway. Organic, this organic, that blah blah. And then this word maltodextrin. So then I started. I did a deep dive into that. What? What is it? So on and so forth. It causes a lot of people, a lot of problems. And it's in

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: nearly everything.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So yeah, that I've cured that which the doctor. Then she sent me to skin specialist and an allergist, and you know, like on and on. And I tried quitting this and quitting that. And Nope, it's not curable. Just live with it.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So anyway, that's gone.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: The other really more remarkable in terms of health. So

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: this might be Tmi, but I had years ago it was 2,013. I had a mammogram, and there were suspicious lumps on my left breast.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and so then, that kicked off a cycle of now I need a punch biopsy. I need to have ultrasound. I need to have an MRI. I need to have all these things, and it needs to be every year, and then they even upped it to every 6 months at 1 point. And then finally, I got fed up, and I didn't go for years. And then last February, one of my girlfriends, she convinced. You know she sort of fear mongered me. You really should blah blah, anyway, I went. They still had them.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and then last. So that was February of last year. I still had the lumps. I refused all the other like I'm like, no, I'm not going for the Punch, biopsy again, and so forth. But May 15th I quit sugar.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I went back to like all forms of it. So that's when I really kind of 1st I quit sugar, and then, I think by mid June I was like almost carnivore. Except for fermented foods, like I make my own sauerkraut and kimchi. So I make a little bit. I eat a little bit of that plus the meat.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I went for my follow up in November, and they couldn't find it.

 

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Sean Treacy: I'm very good.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Everything is gone. After 13 years.

 

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Sean Treacy: That's fascinating. And was it tough? The sugar giving it up.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I think so.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah.

 

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Sean Treacy: Did you have any withdrawals, any.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, my God, yes, I mean, I was a hundred percent. Oh, yeah, yeah, I am an addict. I am a Carb addict. Most of us are. Oh, yeah, the 1st 5 days are. It's you might as well, I mean, I've never been a heroin addict, but it's you're Jonesing for it, Jones. So I suggest, if you want to do the 5, or like, you want to break your sugar addiction like.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: take a holiday, or you know at least not have to be around people that you love, because you become really grumpy and hangry. And yeah, it's terrible. But then, once you get over it honestly, the food noise is gone.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Okay, okay.

 

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Anthony Grogan: That's, I suppose, obviously the I I've heard loads. I've you know. Jordan Peterson has gone.

 

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Anthony Grogan: He's been carnivore for the last number of years. I think he had all kinds of condition. I think his daughter's same, and I like that.

 

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Anthony Grogan: There's just loads of people that you know on the Internet. I think Joe Rogan dips in now of carnivore diet by time and intermittent fast. And so on.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And so there is like there's actual physical evidence of the benefits of this. You know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: I still find it like it's so

 

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Anthony Grogan: frustrating or not frustrating. But it's it's it's so weird to me that that you know the benefits of of this.

 

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Anthony Grogan: you know way of life should be sang from the rooftops. Yet it's not, and we're being driven towards.

 

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Anthony Grogan: you know every day you look at the TV, you know you've Mcdonald's, and you've breads and all the kind of. And you were saying there, if you hadn't have gone, you know, down the road you've gone, you you would have probably better chance of winning the lotto than finding out what was actually causing some of your conditions, because.

 

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Anthony Grogan: like for for most people trying to eliminate like, if you if you have, what would you say? An inverted comma is the normal diet. Now.

 

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Anthony Grogan: the amount of chemicals and and E numbers and all kinds of additives in your food.

 

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Anthony Grogan: If you have a reaction to one of them, the chances of you trying to like trying to whittle them all back down

 

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Anthony Grogan: would be next near impossible, do you know? And

 

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Anthony Grogan: and it's it's fascinating to me. Why, how

 

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Anthony Grogan: we find that this type of food is inverted, commas normal. And and yet

 

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Anthony Grogan: you're here like, I mean, we see your vibrant, your energetic.

 

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Anthony Grogan: and I don't want to ask your age. That's that's a or is it?

 

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Anthony Grogan: Don't do? What are you doing? Stop it! I'm just saying

 

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Anthony Grogan: saying like, but like we follow for anyone who doesn't know. Go on Christina's page, I mean she. She's a bundle of energy and and health. And yet why aren't we following

 

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Anthony Grogan: this type of of lifestyle instead of, you know, like, with all due respect, there's there's no

 

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Anthony Grogan: there's no vibrancy coming out of Mcdonald's. If I and I do eat it, you know, but from time to time the kids oh, can we have it? And so when you stop in and you always feel terrible after it. But yes, you'll still go back and say, maybe we'll try that one more time next year, you know, because it's driven. It's it's kind of ingrained in the Psyche. Now you know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It totally is

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: well, and I don't know. So over here, because I'm on the road a lot now with selling my meat, I go to markets, and this that. So it's very hard to be like cooking my own food and that sort of thing. But I rely on.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: say, and we have A and W. Here. It's like a Mcdonald's. It's a step up from Mcdonald's. They eat at least use Canadian grass fed beef, or so they say, but they do a lettuce wrap.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: so instead of the bun, I get it in a lettuce wrap. So it's like

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 8 carbs instead of whatever bun. And you know 40.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: You're 75 in the bun. And honestly, you don't get that horrible feeling after you don't get that bloated. Now I want to go take a nap.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: so I don't know if you. If Mcdonald's does that over there, and honestly, I would I would step up from that, find a find a 1 that's at least a step up from.

 

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Anthony Grogan: It's last resort last resort. Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah had me.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Maybe they sorry. Maybe they have the. You can ask for the lettuce wrap, and then at least, you're you're feeding your children, the the meat and the fat without the carbs, and the horrible all of like those buns. Those buns will be like the Twinkie you take one of those Mcdonald buns and put it in your closet for 10 years. It'll look exactly.

 

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Anthony Grogan: They'll still be like, Yeah, yeah, I've seen they've done tests, and that, haven't they? Where it it kind of actually doesn't change shape or form just stays like that for years, you know. Mental.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And no like mice won't touch it. Ants won't touch it, you know, so they know they're still more in. Animals, are still more in touch with their

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: ancestral biology. So they know they have their senses out, whereas we've lost a lot of that. So we're.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Whatever that.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: The rum and Twinkie, and think it tastes good.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Your friends, your circle of friends, I suppose? Obviously we've all grown up and we keep in touch, obviously with safe going. Back in the day. Was there a group of friends that that would have went towards the vegetarian slash vegan lifestyle with you? And if so.

 

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Anthony Grogan: what was their reaction to it. How was your reaction from like, I mean, it's pretty. It's a pretty

 

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Anthony Grogan: It's a pretty big transformation going from from Vegan to hunter, gatherer style living. And

 

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Anthony Grogan: what's the been the reaction.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, you know. No. So I mean I left the Vancouver area when I was probably 19. So I and then and then I I never lived anywhere longer than 6 years. I did, you know, 6 years on the road teaching scuba diving, and in the winter I would travel. So my my friendships have largely been kept up through phone conversations and email and.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: other than meeting new people along the way. And but now that's it's I'm just sort of thinking about what you just said about. You know the the normal food quote unquote.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: That nobody bats an eye. If you feed your kids fruit loops, or you know some

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: sugary cereal, because breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Blah blah! But I say I'm carnivore, and I'm only eating meat, and people are shocked and horrified. And oh, my goodness, you're going to die of a heart attack. And you're probably gonna have a stroke. And you know you're going to get kidney stones and all of that.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Bs that we've had.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: But if I was to eat, sit down, you know, after dinner, and have a bowl of fruit loops, nobody would bat an eye.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Not one, you know.

 

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Sean Treacy: It's what's your condition today. I think.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 100%.

 

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Sean Treacy: Yeah, and and on me, what? So you hunt? What's your normal quarry, or or what sustains you? Meat wise, is it from the farm? Is it hunting? What is it.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It's a combination. So deer is usually what I hunt.

 

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Sean Treacy: Wait, 10.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Whitetail and Muley. Yeah.

 

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Sean Treacy: Okay. Very good.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Have both depending on so depending on what section like up in the northern area, whitetails band you have to, or sorry you have to do Whitetail, because Muley's

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: they say no up there but South you can. You can do Mooley then.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: for the most part. Now, unfortunately, because of my mead business. I don't have time to get out to hunt anymore. So but I'm still. I trade with people eggs like so friends of mine who are still hunters and stuff, you know. I'll trade some eggs or mead and then get elk. Elk's 1 of my favorites. Actually, Muley's lovely, too, but I'd like deer. I like both of them, but and there's a there's a local butcher here, so I will get, and one of my friends raises

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: cows, so I split a cow with her and the local butcher butchers it. The the butcher is actually, there's 3 guys who have gotten together, and they raise

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: elk and yak. So now I can actually get access to some farmed elk

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and yak, if you've never tried it.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Absolutely delicious. Probably next year I won't even get a cow. I'll just get the yak as my main source of meat.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and of course, here in in Alberta we have bison, and I do. I don't mind Bison. It's a super super lean meat, though, and I just don't have any access. Look like super look like in Alberta. Yes, but not super locally like I try and really eat within.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: you know, 25 mile food, food shed.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So there isn't anybody doing bison anymore in this area. So now I'm moving into the elk and yak and cow

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and lamb.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Lam. Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And love. And actually, Lamb is okay. I actually prefer mutton, because there's more flavor to it.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And I'm saying

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I don't know if you guys or your listeners know the difference between Lamb and Hoggett and mutton.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, I used to. I similar to yourself I used to have. I used to keep goats for milk, you know. So all my kids were kind of weird and goat's milk and stuff, and we used to make ice cream and cheese, and so on. And then every year there was a sheep farmer beside us, so he used to have like you'd have what we we call pet lamb. So they either the mother would would pass, or, you know. Maybe their mother wouldn't be able to stay in 2, and so on.

 

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Anthony Grogan: and so he'd have, you know, out of maybe 50 or 60 sheep. He could have 2 or 3 of these lambs, and we used to bring one in, and we'd rear one off one of the goats because we had an abundance of milk so, and we'd bring it on, and as you said, there, you'd bring it on into the second year for castrate for a hogget, and I used to prefer that, because the lamb itself

 

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Anthony Grogan: very little like very little meat.

 

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Anthony Grogan: comes off a lamb versus what you get for a Hoggis you you'd have. It's far more sustainable, and far more, I think.

 

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Anthony Grogan: I think there's a little bit more flavour to it. That's just me 100%. There is.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Anthony Grogan: yeah, but it's it's kind of it's not. It's not given the recognition. I think I think it's kind of looked down a little bit as a kind of a step down from Lamb, but in my opinion I'd I'd much prefer. That's just me. And and I think you're similar in that vein.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Completely. Yes, and like, I say, I'll even go as far as probably muttons my favorite, yeah, like that little bit of extra gamey, or I wouldn't even call it gamey flavor. It's just flavorful.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, and and we're.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Go ahead!

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, I think when an animal it's all to do with like, the longer it's active and the more kind of, because sheep are probably similar enough to goat. They'll be eating different, you know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: strains of grass and and leaves. And so that's all adding to the it's it's like building.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And I know this is going to go down brilliant with the vegans. But it's going to. It's like building building the flavor, isn't it, for you, without having to do the cooking. So yeah, but it is. It's it's all it's like. When a deer, when you shoot a deer it's each deer will will taste slightly different than the next, because it's it's been grazing on something different with different herbs and has a different, you know. So

 

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Anthony Grogan: yeah, we're gonna be.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: There was a there was a sheep farmer in New Zealand that planted his field with

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: herbs, so he had, because time grows year round Oregano grows year round, he even, and down there even Rosemary grows year round, so he would actually put Rosemary along the borders, and he actually sowed the field with some thyme and and oregano, and he called it pre-seasoned meat.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I love that idea like.

 

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Sean Treacy: Very good.

 

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Sean Treacy: and when you were in New Zealand, did did you get any hunting there? Talk to us a little bit more about New Zealand. I'm fascinated about the place.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: It is so. New Zealand was where I was diagnosed with the low B 12. So New Zealand. Unfortunately, the most of my years down there. I was vegetarian and vegan, and it was only in the last year or 2,

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: maybe, that I had gone back to eating meat. And you know it's funny, because when the doctor told me that, I mean instantly, I thought, Okay, well, this is obvious, because I was in my anthropology degree, or even into the masters at that point. And I was so learning learning our actual evolution and learning the actual history and the penny was starting to drop right, but that really was the nail on the coffin, and I thought, Oh, driving home! I thought, I can't like, because my brain was still in that. I don't want to eat animals, and I haven't for

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: 6 or 7 or 8, 9 years, whatever it was at the time, I think I was between the 2. I was vegan vegetarian for nearly 12 altogether. So it's a hard shift.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and thought, What am I gonna eat? And I thought I.

 

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Sean Treacy: What was what was the 1st thing that? Yet I wanted to tuna.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Tuna. Yeah, I thought, I can do a tuna sandwich. I love tuna, or I used to love tuna, but the thought of actually eating a ruminant like a little animal or something. I wasn't there yet, but I kid you. So I brought tuna on the way home, made myself a tuna sandwich, and in half an hour

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I knew I needed meat.

 

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Sean Treacy: Okay.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Brain fog lifted brain fog that I didn't even know I had like, if you had asked me on the way to the doctors, do you have brain fog? No, God, no, I'm fine!

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: But once I half within a half an hour it was like my brain was singing out for more meat.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: And I knew oh, my God!

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, my God! I need this!

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So then I think I stayed in the land of just eating fish for a while, and then I there was an organic butcher near the university that I was going, and I bought some lamb chops for my doweling husband who is now next, and I was cooking them for him, and I was still gonna like I bought some fish or something for myself, and while I was cooking that lamb. Honest to goodness, I nearly grew fangs

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: like I was cooking this and the smell, anyway. So Lamb was the 1st like red meat that I ventured into, and then I couldn't get enough of it. It was just like lamb after lamb, lamb, lamb, lamb, you know.

 

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Anthony Grogan: How the body almost

 

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Anthony Grogan: dictates it. Always like I I go back. I know when I get run down, you know, when coming towards the tail end of the year when you're working, and so on, so forth. And you

 

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Anthony Grogan: body starts to get run down. And you're you kind of get that end of year, cold or flu, or whatever the man flu.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yep.

 

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Anthony Grogan: But if you listen to it.

 

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Anthony Grogan: it'll almost nearly drive you to towards what you need.

 

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Anthony Grogan: doesn't it? You know, and the last thing you need is a big bowl of as we were talking about there, cereal or something. It'll drive you towards some sort of healthy, nutrient

 

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Anthony Grogan: food. I think. You know, if if you listen closely enough.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: But that's the key. And I think sadly, not only have we gotten removed from

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: direct link to our food system, we've gotten very out of touch with our own bodies and listening. The external noise is too high, and the carb addiction is too high, and all like like I said, I did not know I had brain fog.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, and I would have. And you know you've seen the people arguing on the Vegan page. Oh, I'm so healthy. I'm this, I'm that. Yeah, you don't know. You don't know. Just like I didn't know. I didn't know that I had brain. I mean, I was doing a Master's degree in university. Of course, like you have to think you have to be able to, you know, have half a brain cell working to get through a Master's degree like that. So I didn't know that I had a problem until

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: half an hour after my 1st tuna sandwich.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: My gosh!

 

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Anthony Grogan: And there's a difference. I suppose that's for people who want to to

 

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Anthony Grogan: to have a give us the name of your book again, Christina.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, chicken, poop for the soul!

 

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Anthony Grogan: What a name! Brilliant.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Brilliant.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: See it there.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Well, you can see it yet.

 

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Anthony Grogan: I will be most definitely it's it's it's on. It's on my download list. I I'm absolutely gonna to delve into it, because I've I've

 

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Anthony Grogan: like like that. I am going to try and transition a little bit away from my pastes as much as I love them, I will. I'm never going to say it's like a

 

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Anthony Grogan: you never say give them up. But definitely.

 

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Sean Treacy: I think

 

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Anthony Grogan: As part of a healthier lifestyle to get away from those kind of carbohydrate dense meals, is, it? Can't be a bad thing, you know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, and especially for your children. Really like.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Transition now, and like instead of I mean, you don't

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: work your way towards giving them up, but just maybe make your portions make it a side dish instead of the main event.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Have meat and a little side of.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Even that from from from meat eater to meat eater, even you saying that. And this will tell you how disconnected we are. You just said that just there, and automatically I kind of went. Oh, meat is the main part of the dish. We've been told now for the last 20 something years, you know, drilled into the brain that the meat should be the side.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yep.

 

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Anthony Grogan: And not the main. Isn't it so strange? And that's from.

 

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Anthony Grogan: you know, hunter to Hunter, you know it's and and it's so so weird it's it's nearly it's drilled into the brain. Now, you know.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, that's another one of the the sort of Vegan lies, shall we call it? And it's not even just Vegan lies, but it's the it's even mainstream like, for goodness sakes, I don't know what your food pyramid looks like over there, but I presume it's the same. It's heavy heavy on the grains, and a tiny little bit of meat on the on the top, and really it should be absolutely flipped.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Right it should be primarily meat, and then a lot of fat

 

396

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: should actually be primarily animal fat, then the protein, and then, if you want to have the

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: plant stuff than a tiny little bit like a garnish. But the the lie is, you know, people say, Oh, well, we're supposed to be like the apes. We're the same DNA as the apes, etc. Etc. And we don't have canine teeth and blah blah! Okay, you look at an ape. Look at the size of their cecum, and their hindgut is huge, that is, so that they can digest the cellulose in the plants

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and Ps. Have you looked at their canines.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So that is not an argument, this whole. Oh, humans don't have canines. Well, great apes do.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and they don't eat any meat

 

401

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: so like. There's so many holes that you can poke, poke through.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Their arguments. Unfortunately, most of the Vegan arguments are are just emotional manipulation and not really based in physiology whatsoever.

 

404

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, history, what the you know, what's 1 of the frightening things I find is they're beginning to rewrite human evolution. And some academics are actually in that like, it's starting to be published in so-called peer reviewed journals and stuff, and it's frightening.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah, we're living in a very, very strange time, I think, for all I think it's

 

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Anthony Grogan: and I'm not saying, but conversations like this are extremely beneficial to keep people in touch. But what's actually happened rather than than

 

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Anthony Grogan: where they should be like following like sheep into into the abyss. And you're starting your own podcast as well when or have started.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: I haven't started. Well, I shouldn't say I did start a podcast. And it was called Ethical Agriculture. And it's still up there. But I'm but I haven't done anything with it for the past 2 years, just because with the mead business I'm just running flat out now, especially throughout sort of May till December every year, so I've had to drop it. But I'm wanting to get back into that because I do like you. I feel this issue is so important to human health.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: The animals like I like. I say, I don't want to have my money going into supporting industrial agriculture the way the way we treat animals in the agricultural complex is horrifying. It's disgusting. It's tantamount to what the

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Nazis did to the.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Usually, yeah.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: They're basically concentration camps for animals.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and then the other. The naive thing that people have is this idea that you can raise food without killing anything. Well, I'm sorry

 

415

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: you just can't.

 

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Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

417

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, it's not. You can't.

 

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Anthony Grogan: But one thing to survive. Something has to die. That is not it. That is just something has to. You have to. You can't be

 

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Anthony Grogan: living without.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: Sure

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: you put large ruminant on like, Get rid! If we tomorrow I were king, tomorrow I would get rid of all the crops on, I would let the pasture grow back, and then I would put ruminant animals on it.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I would let the trees come back.

 

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: So when you put ruminant animals on pasture, they can go throughout the trees. You could regenerate the soil, and nothing needs to die in that case except the animal. When we decide to harvest it. There's no collateral damage. There's no accidental killing through. Combine harvesting and all that sort of stuff. You don't have to displace the forest, like even in Bella Coola, the grizzly bears don't attack the cows. So you you have a system where

 

424

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: nature and wildlife can cohabitate with what we need.

 

425

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Stolen Harvest Meadery: In other words, large ruminant animals on. You're regenerating the soil. Those cows are carbon sequestering. You're improving the soils. You're not having to use the insecticides. Pesticides, fungicides. You're not having to kill and displace.

 

426

00:51:36.460 --> 00:51:38.380

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So it really is

 

427

00:51:38.630 --> 00:51:45.079

Stolen Harvest Meadery: the best way. And then you're giving the highest quality. Feed food down to the human beings.

 

428

00:51:45.730 --> 00:52:08.259

Anthony Grogan: In your belief, then is, is there? Is there enough? If there is there enough like? Because this the argument, the counter to that is, oh, that we can. We can feed the world with like, I think there's 60 or depending on which Vegan page you look at 60% or 70% less farmland, you know we can, and save all the animals you know by by feeding with crops which I would dispute anyway. And

 

429

00:52:08.780 --> 00:52:21.279

Anthony Grogan: just from in my my whole lifetime. I've seen the transition from, you know, the larger scale monocrop agriculture around my where I grew up. You know it's taken more and more swathes of land

 

430

00:52:21.410 --> 00:52:25.819

Anthony Grogan: and ditches and hedgerows, and all that kind of stuff are being destroyed.

 

431

00:52:26.540 --> 00:52:27.300

Anthony Grogan: But

 

432

00:52:27.740 --> 00:52:36.610

Anthony Grogan: do you believe that that's sustainable like? I think there's loads of farmers out there who are starting to transition now to to a more what would you say?

 

433

00:52:36.970 --> 00:52:40.919

Anthony Grogan: Sustainable form of farming and a regenerative style of farming.

 

434

00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:47.080

Anthony Grogan: Is. Is this sustainable on a larger scale? Do you think, in your opinion.

 

435

00:52:47.080 --> 00:52:49.760

Stolen Harvest Meadery: The the kind of putting animals on pasture.

 

436

00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:50.780

Anthony Grogan: Yes. Yeah.

 

437

00:52:50.780 --> 00:52:56.610

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes 100. So this is again, this is the naive idea. So in order to have a monocrop

 

438

00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:01.600

Stolen Harvest Meadery: you need to use, you need to destroy

 

439

00:53:01.900 --> 00:53:20.690

Stolen Harvest Meadery: the land. You need to get rid of all the trees, all the butterflies, all the rodents, all the everything, in order to put that monocrop out. And now, in order to keep that free of weeds and free of pesticides and or free of pests, you have to like in the Uk alone, 350,000 deer are called every year, just to protect crops.

 

440

00:53:20.890 --> 00:53:21.410

Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

441

00:53:21.410 --> 00:53:23.400

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Crops which are vegan, right?

 

442

00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:23.960

Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

443

00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:41.440

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So you you have to kill. You have to poison, and then you have, and then you look at not only, and then the harvesting, we all know. Well, any farmer will tell you when you're using a combine, and you're harvesting. You're killing things right left and center anything from rodents to baby deers, fox, etc.

 

444

00:53:41.620 --> 00:53:47.080

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So there's the and back to. We do have enough land.

 

445

00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:53.780

Stolen Harvest Meadery: You look at how many crops around the world if we put animals on it. Instead.

 

446

00:53:53.990 --> 00:54:12.140

Stolen Harvest Meadery: you would increase the biodiversity. You would stop using the poisons insecticides. You wouldn't. There would be no need for fertilizer and the the offshoot of using the insecticides, pesticides, fungicides, fertilizer is. You're now also poisoning waterways or watersheds.

 

447

00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:20.810

Stolen Harvest Meadery: You're killing like the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, is massive, which is the Mississippi, runs down into the

 

448

00:54:21.180 --> 00:54:31.249

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Gulf of Mexico. It's dead because of all of the agricultural products, and all of those things pesticides, poisons, etc. Are running into it.

 

449

00:54:31.530 --> 00:54:40.889

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So if you got rid of all of that, and you would be able to cease using all of those products, you would back upstream. Have a healthier ecosystem.

 

450

00:54:41.660 --> 00:55:00.460

Stolen Harvest Meadery: You wouldn't be poisoning waterways. You wouldn't be creating massive dead zones. You'd be having animals on the on that land that would be regenerating it through there, I mean, nature made it this way. There was bison on the prairies, antelope on the steps, herds of horses and oxen in

 

451

00:55:00.750 --> 00:55:04.569

Stolen Harvest Meadery: the you know Mongolia area. I forget steps.

 

452

00:55:06.850 --> 00:55:17.279

Stolen Harvest Meadery: That's how nature designed it. You have a ruminant, a large group of ruminant bison, or whatever followed by birds who the birds pick through the the poo.

 

453

00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:17.930

Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

454

00:55:17.930 --> 00:55:22.579

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Distributed and eat the bugs and the larva and the whatever that grow in it.

 

455

00:55:22.790 --> 00:55:28.550

Stolen Harvest Meadery: It's a perfect system. Why, it's very arrogant that humans think they can do better.

 

456

00:55:28.790 --> 00:55:31.470

Anthony Grogan: Yeah, yeah, I think so.

 

457

00:55:31.970 --> 00:55:37.990

Anthony Grogan: The in terms of your what was what was your your favorite? This is.

 

458

00:55:38.230 --> 00:55:44.099

Anthony Grogan: it's kind of a load of question. But what was your most memorable hunt?

 

459

00:55:49.140 --> 00:55:52.980

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Definitely my 1st moose hunt.

 

460

00:55:52.980 --> 00:55:53.730

Anthony Grogan: Okay.

 

461

00:55:54.200 --> 00:55:59.700

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Because a I'd never walked through the bush with a gun before.

 

462

00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:07.640

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Bi went out with Clarence, so I was up there, for it was a 2 week hunt, and the 1st few days I went up with

 

463

00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:13.130

Stolen Harvest Meadery: with Clarence. So at the time he was 84, and

 

464

00:56:13.340 --> 00:56:21.229

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and like I knew nothing. Oh, my gosh! We're going along with! And he'd been hunting in this in that particular area for 44 years.

 

465

00:56:22.010 --> 00:56:31.410

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and so they had marked all the territory through there, and we're talking like a vast wilderness area.

 

466

00:56:31.870 --> 00:56:39.980

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And so we're going along. And and he put me out front. He's like you lead, and you know I'm walking along, and he says, just stick to the trail.

 

467

00:56:43.120 --> 00:56:44.309

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Where's the trail?

 

468

00:56:44.550 --> 00:56:48.259

Stolen Harvest Meadery: I couldn't see a trail, and then he says he says I've got it flagged.

 

469

00:56:48.910 --> 00:56:54.550

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and I'm so he's got it flagged. And I'm thinking, okay, like orange flagging tape is going to be

 

470

00:56:54.550 --> 00:56:55.810

Stolen Harvest Meadery: rather around

 

471

00:56:56.400 --> 00:57:06.240

Stolen Harvest Meadery: trees, and so I'm standing there, and I'm looking for orange flagging tape, and I don't see the flag. And then he walked. He walked me up to the tree where he'd scuffed off a piece

 

472

00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:12.240

Stolen Harvest Meadery: right. If you scuff off a piece of pine bark, the the tree will leave that scar

 

473

00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:14.850

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and continue to grow. It won't kill it.

 

474

00:57:15.180 --> 00:57:20.569

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So then it like it's it. I just laughed myself, thinking, Oh, my God, you poor city girl! You know nothing.

 

475

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:25.080

Anthony Grogan: This is. This is real, real, outback, living.

 

476

00:57:25.790 --> 00:57:38.259

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, and so not only me. You know how the whole thought process of I'm looking for flagging tape, and he's, you know, doing that, but so he also didn't know

 

477

00:57:38.570 --> 00:57:40.719

Stolen Harvest Meadery: what he needed to teach me.

 

478

00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:42.440

Stolen Harvest Meadery: If you get my drift like.

 

479

00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:44.460

Anthony Grogan: Came natural to him. This was his, this was his.

 

480

00:57:44.460 --> 00:57:47.600

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So what he did not know, what he didn't know, and the.

 

481

00:57:47.600 --> 00:57:47.930

Anthony Grogan: How's.

 

482

00:57:47.930 --> 00:57:57.790

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So there was this like communication gap several times where I'm asking him about something, and you can see it's like hurting his brain because he's having to

 

483

00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:04.720

Stolen Harvest Meadery: think about what I'm asking, and then relive how.

 

484

00:58:04.720 --> 00:58:05.210

Anthony Grogan: Yes.

 

485

00:58:05.210 --> 00:58:06.030

Stolen Harvest Meadery: This.

 

486

00:58:06.770 --> 00:58:17.099

Anthony Grogan: Say, there's another man here that's going through exactly the same. Robert taught me how to hunt many years ago. I'm sure you're reliving many memories like that Robert.

 

487

00:58:17.100 --> 00:58:27.669

Sean Treacy: I'm just smiling because it's so true. You don't know what you don't know, and you know how to do what you're doing, but to explain it to someone. You nearly take it for granted he knows that because that's simple.

 

488

00:58:28.010 --> 00:58:34.380

Sean Treacy: or she knows that because it's simple. But there's a huge learning curve for someone like yourself, Christine. That's only starting out.

 

489

00:58:35.140 --> 00:58:35.550

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes.

 

490

00:58:35.550 --> 00:58:44.669

Sean Treacy: On on that particular one. How did he do it? Was it a walk and stalk? Was it a high seat? How how did he, how did he tackle that hunt with you as a new new hunter?

 

491

00:58:45.150 --> 00:58:46.890

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, well, we walked in, stocked.

 

492

00:58:47.200 --> 00:58:47.870

Sean Treacy: And.

 

493

00:58:48.460 --> 00:58:56.430

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And and then another another naive moment. So we're out there and we're hunting moose. So I'm looking for moose.

 

494

00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:07.309

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And when when you're that focused. Maybe you can understand, too. You're that focused. You're not thinking about other things that are out in the bush. You're just moose, moose, moose and looking for moose.

 

495

00:59:07.310 --> 00:59:07.605

Sean Treacy: Yeah.

 

496

00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:22.079

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And anyway, we're walking along, walking along, and then and of course I'm out front. And then he says, Oh, hold up, dear! And he brings me back, and a cougar a family of cougar has cut the track, cut our trail.

 

497

00:59:22.490 --> 00:59:26.279

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and so he's like, Oh, look! There's a cougar spin here.

 

498

00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:31.850

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and then he does this whole deconstructed. So you see him, and like now he's off in his own

 

499

00:59:32.300 --> 00:59:38.259

Stolen Harvest Meadery: reverie, and then watching the way that man's mind worked.

 

500

00:59:38.500 --> 00:59:47.319

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and again the knowledge that's coming out just by looking at this track. And you can see now he's like Sherlock Holmes, the hunter. So he's.

 

501

00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:48.589

Anthony Grogan: Master at work.

 

502

00:59:48.590 --> 00:59:55.350

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, he says, oh, and then he starts looking at it, and and immediately, I'm like cougar.

 

503

00:59:55.560 --> 00:59:59.360

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Jesus Christ. I thought we were looking for moose like

 

504

01:00:01.030 --> 01:00:17.770

Stolen Harvest Meadery: he looks, and he's and he says, Look the track! They're headed that way, and they came from that way, and then he's analyzing. He says he says, Oh, there's a bigger oh, and there's 2! He's like it's a mama and 2 cubs, and then he looks, and then he says, Oh, look. They were walking.

 

505

01:00:18.080 --> 01:00:23.720

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and over here they took off on the run. They saw us, he said, and I'm like.

 

506

01:00:24.300 --> 01:00:27.650

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Like Oh, my God!

 

507

01:00:27.650 --> 01:00:29.240

Anthony Grogan: What a way for your 1st hunt!

 

508

01:00:29.720 --> 01:00:37.160

Stolen Harvest Meadery: This is my 1st hunt. And now Clarence is going that way tracking the cougar, and I'm like

 

509

01:00:37.640 --> 01:00:58.499

Stolen Harvest Meadery: nearly shitting myself, I'm like, Oh, my God, Clarence, please get back! I don't! I really don't want to see them like this is enough. This is exciting enough. I might have a heart attack holy crap. And then I'm thinking, like, how do I wrangle you back? Because now you're going that way, there's no trail cut. I just learned 400 yards ago how to find the

 

510

01:00:58.560 --> 01:01:19.270

Stolen Harvest Meadery: the flagging like there's no flagging out there, like if I if you have a heart attack because he's 84, I'm like, if you have a heart attack and die, I'm going to die out here, too, because I don't know how to find my way back. Yeah, like. So this whole panic of this whole reverie inside myself was going through thinking like, Oh, my God, I need a lasso to, you know. Get him back. And

 

511

01:01:20.330 --> 01:01:41.259

Stolen Harvest Meadery: so, yeah, it was pretty. But you know what? By the end of the 2 weeks I knew coffee pot trail, and I knew how to find my way back. And I by that time I was really actually quite confident in terms of okay, I'm not going to panic. If Eric or if Clarence actually does get hurt, then I can find my way back to camp, and so on and so forth.

 

512

01:01:41.260 --> 01:01:42.330

Sean Treacy: Were you successful?

 

513

01:01:42.680 --> 01:01:43.379

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Pardon me.

 

514

01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:49.569

Sean Treacy: Were you successful on the hunt? Did you? Did you actually harvest something? Can you tell us what that was?

 

515

01:01:50.210 --> 01:01:56.190

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, on my, the. It was like the the 11th hour of the last day of my hunt.

 

516

01:01:56.190 --> 01:01:58.690

Sean Treacy: The other lad here does that all the time.

 

517

01:01:58.690 --> 01:01:59.640

Anthony Grogan: The last.

 

518

01:01:59.640 --> 01:02:00.740

Sean Treacy: Hour of every hunt.

 

519

01:02:02.060 --> 01:02:02.810

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah.

 

520

01:02:02.810 --> 01:02:06.059

Anthony Grogan: We like to make an entrance to save. It's not. It's just the way we do it, you know.

 

521

01:02:06.060 --> 01:02:23.110

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, totally well, you know, it was crazy. So it was the last hour of that hunt, so we got it open. I think I sent you the picture of the moose all. So we got it open, and we got the tenderloins and the heart and the liver out, and took that back to camp, and then came the next day to

 

522

01:02:23.470 --> 01:02:31.089

Stolen Harvest Meadery: to to butcher the rest of it. But so we're out there butchering it the next day, and within 5 min

 

523

01:02:31.740 --> 01:02:44.050

Stolen Harvest Meadery: the brother Ernest got his moose. So we're out there barely just starting, and all of a sudden, boom, boom! And we're like, Oh, my God! So in 2, in less than 24 h we had 2 moose on the ground.

 

524

01:02:44.250 --> 01:02:50.529

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Wow! And we were because it was the first.st So in Canada up there at the time. My hunt was like

 

525

01:02:52.320 --> 01:03:03.990

Stolen Harvest Meadery: October 1st to the 14, th and then his was the 15th to the 30, th and so I got mine on the 14.th He got his on the 15, th and now we've got, you know, 4.5,000 pounds of animal on the ground.

 

526

01:03:04.474 --> 01:03:15.839

Sean Treacy: What was it like looking through the scope at the moose when you were squeezing the trigger? Were you nervous? And then how, in God's name! Did you get that much meat out of it?

 

527

01:03:17.450 --> 01:03:21.569

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So I wasn't. Honestly, I wasn't nervous.

 

528

01:03:21.850 --> 01:03:26.790

Stolen Harvest Meadery: It was. I was excited, and I guess Laser focused.

 

529

01:03:26.790 --> 01:03:27.370

Sean Treacy: Hmm.

 

530

01:03:28.290 --> 01:03:29.160

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Like.

 

531

01:03:29.450 --> 01:03:33.280

Stolen Harvest Meadery: I don't get. What do they call that when people get super excited.

 

532

01:03:34.100 --> 01:03:36.589

Sean Treacy: And the book favor.

 

533

01:03:36.740 --> 01:03:40.840

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, so I don't get buck fever. I'm actually yeah.

 

534

01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:41.300

Sean Treacy: Believe.

 

535

01:03:41.300 --> 01:03:52.059

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Very good at the just I. So the way I do it I go up above them, and then bring it down and pull the trigger right just when I hit, so I don't aim and try and aim. I'm just like, Hey, breathe in

 

536

01:03:52.170 --> 01:03:53.969

Stolen Harvest Meadery: exhale boom!

 

537

01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:56.640

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Do it.

 

538

01:03:56.640 --> 01:04:06.029

Sean Treacy: So would you believe that a lot of I don't actually hunt with any women. But apparently the women hunters don't really suffer with bug fever.

 

539

01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:08.539

Sean Treacy: They go into a crazy focused.

 

540

01:04:09.130 --> 01:04:09.720

Sean Treacy: Oh, oh.

 

541

01:04:09.720 --> 01:04:15.960

Sean Treacy: I won't say them all, but but the the high majority where lads will normally get a bit shaky, for whatever reason.

 

542

01:04:16.330 --> 01:04:20.080

Sean Treacy: you know, that's why that's why I asked that question. I just wanted to see.

 

543

01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:21.190

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Interesting.

 

544

01:04:21.190 --> 01:04:21.960

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah. No.

 

545

01:04:22.110 --> 01:04:23.489

Sean Treacy: Moving the meat out.

 

546

01:04:24.180 --> 01:04:29.469

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, that was, you know, for me, that's the best part.

 

547

01:04:29.640 --> 01:04:38.020

Stolen Harvest Meadery: There's 2. So there's 2 parts of the hunting back to my, you know when I asked Clarence to teach me, I really thought I'd go once.

 

548

01:04:38.160 --> 01:04:52.910

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Learn how to do it. Tick that box. Okay, I can, if I have to, and then never do do it again. But the depth of knowledge and what he taught me. It was like going into a whole new realm of the world

 

549

01:04:53.330 --> 01:05:02.790

Stolen Harvest Meadery: that I didn't count on enjoying, so we'd be walking along, and then he'd show me some brows that had been nibbled off. Oh, look at this, my dude? This is what

 

550

01:05:02.940 --> 01:05:09.659

Stolen Harvest Meadery: this is, what the moose have been eating. And then here's some poop. And here, do you know what like?

 

551

01:05:09.770 --> 01:05:31.169

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Do you know what track this is, and they're little, teeny, tiny things. So I learned. I now know how to like track mice, voles fox, coyote, bear, grizzly bear versus that, you know, and and then seeing what they're eating, and so when you go out in the winter here, of course, there's snow. So you get to see

 

552

01:05:31.330 --> 01:05:36.899

Stolen Harvest Meadery: this whole other realm of who's out there.

 

553

01:05:37.780 --> 01:05:52.129

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And you understand? Oh, my gosh! There's all of these other critters out here, and you see, and you learn so much about their okay? So the moose eat the willow and the deer eat the this, and and and then you look through their poops.

 

554

01:05:52.540 --> 01:06:06.730

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So. Oh, this has been eating this like I found. So the and you learn the difference between like cougar, scat and bear scat, and how the little tail on a cougar. It has this little little hook on it, and you can tell

 

555

01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:11.060

Stolen Harvest Meadery: it looks more human than the bear, in a way, and

 

556

01:06:11.450 --> 01:06:20.570

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and one of the one of the really coolest things I ever found in cougar scat is the front. 2 little baby toe, 2 little toes of a baby deer.

 

557

01:06:21.170 --> 01:06:27.740

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Oh, well, because there's so I like going out there

 

558

01:06:28.010 --> 01:06:33.939

Stolen Harvest Meadery: even just to see the story of who's out there, what they're eating, where they're betting down.

 

559

01:06:34.390 --> 01:06:34.980

Stolen Harvest Meadery: It's.

 

560

01:06:34.980 --> 01:06:46.480

Anthony Grogan: The ancestral link, isn't it? It's the link back to. That's how we would have survived back, you had to know you had to know. Was there a predator tracking you, or was there in front of you?

 

561

01:06:46.600 --> 01:06:55.459

Anthony Grogan: Was was your your next meal? How far ahead? So there's a direct what you're describing. There, that's the link between us

 

562

01:06:55.870 --> 01:07:02.880

Anthony Grogan: and our answer. That's how they did it, you know, and similar to you. I find that all the time it's it's fascinating to me. How

 

563

01:07:03.160 --> 01:07:03.940

Anthony Grogan: and

 

564

01:07:04.090 --> 01:07:09.840

Anthony Grogan: how did it like? We have technological advances now that help and guide us, and so on, so forth.

 

565

01:07:10.990 --> 01:07:14.950

Anthony Grogan: But when we're out there, and you're looking at that. That's

 

566

01:07:15.170 --> 01:07:24.109

Anthony Grogan: that's the same way they did it. But we were looking at is the same thing they looked at, and how you decipher. That was the same way they deciphered it, you know, and I think that's really cool. It's really cool.

 

567

01:07:24.110 --> 01:07:41.640

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, and so to continue on on that, on the story of the butchering piece. So the other thing about Clarence and and his sons they're like. When when I told my brother that I was going to go hunting, he's like, Oh, you should buy yourself a Sawzel, and I thought

 

568

01:07:42.160 --> 01:07:45.430

Stolen Harvest Meadery: there is no way that Clarence is. Gonna

 

569

01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:58.620

Stolen Harvest Meadery: bring me. Let me take a Sawzall out there like no, there's no power tools involved. So he like when and I think I don't remember if I sent the picture or not. But there is. I have a beautiful picture of Clarence with his little

 

570

01:08:00.830 --> 01:08:19.140

Stolen Harvest Meadery: folding knife, jackknife, and it's like a made in china, little teeny Tiny. We butchered that whole moose with him, with that and me with another one. Mine was a tiny bit bigger, but not very much bigger, and the only thing like the way we cut through the breastplate was with my jerber

 

571

01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:20.240

Stolen Harvest Meadery: saw.

 

572

01:08:20.740 --> 01:08:27.460

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So it's all done by hand. And yeah, I mean, absolute minimalist.

 

573

01:08:27.970 --> 01:08:41.110

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Cut it out, and I'll tell you what like that the like. Just the 1st day going back to camp with the I had the heart and tenderloin in my backpack, and the thing probably weighed 50 pounds just between those 2 pieces of meat.

 

574

01:08:41.380 --> 01:08:46.760

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And okay, so little known fact. It takes 13 pillowcases

 

575

01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:50.590

Stolen Harvest Meadery: to take out that whole moose.

 

576

01:08:51.630 --> 01:08:54.699

Sean Treacy: That's that scale. We're not used to that scale.

 

577

01:08:54.700 --> 01:08:55.529

Anthony Grogan: At all. No.

 

578

01:08:55.779 --> 01:08:57.309

Sean Treacy: So, yeah, and that's everything.

 

579

01:08:57.310 --> 01:08:58.399

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Deboned

 

580

01:08:58.569 --> 01:09:05.269

Stolen Harvest Meadery: like. So we left that whole carcass. We didn't take any of the bones. Nothing. We deboned it in the field.

 

581

01:09:05.550 --> 01:09:11.279

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and you can, so the neck takes one pillowcase either side, slap together, put into a pillowcase.

 

582

01:09:11.569 --> 01:09:17.770

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and then the same like each thigh. You cut it off, and they fit into a pillowcase each, and so on, and so forth. So, yeah.

 

583

01:09:17.779 --> 01:09:18.339

Sean Treacy: I mean.

 

584

01:09:18.700 --> 01:09:21.970

Stolen Harvest Meadery: 1313 pillowcases. You take out a whole moose.

 

585

01:09:22.310 --> 01:09:24.460

Anthony Grogan: We think we'd rather we drag that, Robert, would we?

 

586

01:09:25.180 --> 01:09:27.060

Sean Treacy: No, we. We put that off.

 

587

01:09:27.630 --> 01:09:30.240

Sean Treacy: We try for about 10 seconds, I think.

 

588

01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:41.520

Anthony Grogan: That is one serious animal. They're they're huge, as Robert said. We don't have that that scale over here, and you're blessed to have that kind of game on, on your, on your doorstep.

 

589

01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:43.010

Sean Treacy: Blessed and cursed.

 

590

01:09:43.310 --> 01:09:43.680

Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

591

01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:44.005

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes.

 

592

01:09:46.410 --> 01:09:47.009

Anthony Grogan: Time for the.

 

593

01:09:47.010 --> 01:09:52.899

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Another piece of this going back to the human history and so forth, and the Vegan argument.

 

594

01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:56.779

Stolen Harvest Meadery: we have become so far removed

 

595

01:09:57.790 --> 01:10:06.770

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and so so-called civilized quote unquote that we've forgotten we are an animal of the forest. That's from whence we come.

 

596

01:10:07.300 --> 01:10:09.740

Stolen Harvest Meadery: You know, when you look back into human history.

 

597

01:10:10.490 --> 01:10:18.200

Stolen Harvest Meadery: We're an animal of the forest, or the Serengeti, or the plains, or the steppes, but we're meant to be

 

598

01:10:18.350 --> 01:10:21.089

Stolen Harvest Meadery: on this earth and harvesting from the earth.

 

599

01:10:21.250 --> 01:10:24.120

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and we're an apex predator. It's that simple.

 

600

01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:25.190

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And when.

 

601

01:10:25.190 --> 01:10:25.930

Anthony Grogan: In Houston, like.

 

602

01:10:25.930 --> 01:10:51.750

Stolen Harvest Meadery: When you look at. So they took the wolves out of the Yellowstone, and it completely changed the ecology, and then the deer became overrun, and then the grass, the native grasses disappeared, and so on and so forth, like it, totally changed the ecosystem. Then they threw those wolves back in. They kept the deer in place. And now a bunch of the native species of grasses and flowers and trees are coming back.

 

603

01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:57.959

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, because you've put that what Mother Nature had there in place like Mother Nature is perfect.

 

604

01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:10.279

Stolen Harvest Meadery: They put that in place. And it's coming back. We humans, we've removed ourselves as part of that ecosystem. We're supposed to be part of that ecosystem we're supposed to be

 

605

01:11:10.390 --> 01:11:19.929

Stolen Harvest Meadery: competing with what like in North America, competing with wolves to keep the ruminant, the pressure from the deer and the elk and the mouse down.

 

606

01:11:21.170 --> 01:11:29.549

Stolen Harvest Meadery: And we've gotten that. So you remove that. And all of a sudden you have this massive imbalance in nature again. So then, and now it cycles

 

607

01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:47.250

Stolen Harvest Meadery: right. The the deer population goes up, the wolf population lags. Then the wolf start coming up because the deer is high, then that pressure becomes low and the deer start disappearing. And then the wolf, you know, and it just cycles like that. But we humans are supposed to be out there harvesting

 

608

01:11:47.420 --> 01:11:50.130

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and being part of that natural system.

 

609

01:11:50.130 --> 01:12:05.069

Anthony Grogan: I think a big part of that as well, though like, because we have that in here where there's talk of reintroduction of certain animals, and so on, and wolves being one of them, and I think the lynx being another one, and so on, and we have done reintroduction of some of our kind of prey birds, and so on.

 

610

01:12:05.370 --> 01:12:07.049

Anthony Grogan: The problem with it is right.

 

611

01:12:07.160 --> 01:12:21.070

Anthony Grogan: is it's sprung on people. So these conversations are not had before this is done. So what happens is, there's a reintroduction, and there's a disconnect between the people who are reintroducing or trying to do what they're trying to do, and the people who are

 

612

01:12:21.440 --> 01:12:30.100

Anthony Grogan: just going about their business. So there's an educational aspect that needs to be done, because otherwise what happens is you get this conflict, and one.

 

613

01:12:30.220 --> 01:12:31.270

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Doesn't.

 

614

01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:38.349

Anthony Grogan: Get along with Yoder, whereas you, if you have a farmer for argument's sake, and you're saying to him, Oh, we're reintroducing wolves here. And he's

 

615

01:12:38.350 --> 01:12:38.890

Anthony Grogan: yeah, yeah.

 

616

01:12:38.890 --> 01:12:58.260

Anthony Grogan: His sheep. But he's going to be terrified, has to be an education. There has to be a common ground, and obviously, then there has to be boundaries put in place for both the wolf to live, and humans and and farming farmers to earn a living until we get to that

 

617

01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:01.999

Anthony Grogan: that happy medium, if that makes sense.

 

618

01:13:02.220 --> 01:13:14.529

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yes, yeah. Well, and again, like, even from my experience in Bella Coola, when when I mean you're never going to introduce grizzly bears over there because they were never part of your ecosystem. But the idea of wolves is a good one.

 

619

01:13:15.080 --> 01:13:17.129

Stolen Harvest Meadery: But there needs to be

 

620

01:13:17.400 --> 01:13:24.829

Stolen Harvest Meadery: not only educating the public, as you say, but and and then help for the farmers, so that when, when and if they do lose things.

 

621

01:13:24.990 --> 01:13:25.949

Stolen Harvest Meadery: there is

 

622

01:13:26.050 --> 01:13:36.749

Stolen Harvest Meadery: compensation. Get the system put together so that it can balance. But you touched on something there that I've thought through for years, and I think is so important.

 

623

01:13:37.200 --> 01:13:42.419

Stolen Harvest Meadery: our human arrogance to think that we should be able to go wherever we want.

 

624

01:13:43.170 --> 01:13:48.129

Stolen Harvest Meadery: If you want to have natural ecosystems, we need to stay the hell out of those areas.

 

625

01:13:48.160 --> 01:13:48.760

Anthony Grogan: Yeah.

 

626

01:13:48.760 --> 01:14:04.560

Stolen Harvest Meadery: It shouldn't be our right to go everywhere and then expect to not have conflict like I shouldn't be allowed to just go off into everywhere in the bush. If we want to save the grizzly bears and the black bears, we need to, like, you say, delineate some habitat that we don't. Don't.

 

627

01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:05.470

Anthony Grogan: Leave untouched?

 

628

01:14:05.770 --> 01:14:06.980

Anthony Grogan: No, because you have.

 

629

01:14:06.980 --> 01:14:13.150

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Happens is, I go in there. Then a bear kills me, or my dog, or whatever, and then we go and shoot the bear, and then, you know, like.

 

630

01:14:13.330 --> 01:14:13.710

Anthony Grogan: We can't.

 

631

01:14:13.710 --> 01:14:29.399

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Have everything. Life is a compromise. So we have to decide. If we want to reintroduce wolves over there and and change your habitat and bring back the native fauna and flora and all that. Then we need to create a space for that to happen

 

632

01:14:29.580 --> 01:14:31.300

Stolen Harvest Meadery: where there is less conflict.

 

633

01:14:32.160 --> 01:14:36.660

Anthony Grogan: And I think your book and your impending podcast.

 

634

01:14:36.790 --> 01:14:41.060

Anthony Grogan: will do much to to encourage that conversation.

 

635

01:14:41.200 --> 01:14:42.850

Anthony Grogan: And we

 

636

01:14:43.050 --> 01:14:51.200

Anthony Grogan: urge people, as I say, if you haven't already, go over and have a have a little peep at at Christ. Your stolen harvest

 

637

01:14:51.730 --> 01:14:54.199

Anthony Grogan: is the name of your Instagram Handle. I think.

 

638

01:14:54.660 --> 01:15:01.429

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Stolen harvest. Yep! Stolen harvest is my maid company. I also have modern Stone age. Wellness, that's.

 

639

01:15:01.430 --> 01:15:02.160

Anthony Grogan: Yes.

 

640

01:15:02.160 --> 01:15:04.299

Stolen Harvest Meadery: That's the carnivore branch of my life.

 

641

01:15:04.300 --> 01:15:14.290

Anthony Grogan: Branch. Yes, for people who haven't already check it out. It's really cool. It's ultra informative, and I can't wait. We're going to try and get some of your

 

642

01:15:14.490 --> 01:15:17.690

Anthony Grogan: your your mead over here to have a little sample on a podcast.

 

643

01:15:17.690 --> 01:15:21.559

Sean Treacy: Before we let you go. I have 2 things put you on the spot, Christina.

 

644

01:15:22.900 --> 01:15:27.600

Sean Treacy: If you are sitting down to have a glass made. Now which one would you go for.

 

645

01:15:29.040 --> 01:15:31.989

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Is this before dinner, during dinner, or after.

 

646

01:15:34.010 --> 01:15:35.719

Sean Treacy: After before before dinner.

 

647

01:15:36.340 --> 01:15:36.700

Anthony Grogan: Okay.

 

648

01:15:36.700 --> 01:15:37.330

Anthony Grogan: Wasn't Butter Roberts.

 

649

01:15:37.330 --> 01:15:40.929

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Before dinner will probably be my wild rose petal.

 

650

01:15:41.190 --> 01:15:42.080

Sean Treacy: Waterfalls, back.

 

651

01:15:42.470 --> 01:15:48.949

Stolen Harvest Meadery: During dinner, depending on. If it's if it's game meat, then it would be saskatoon.

 

652

01:15:49.070 --> 01:15:52.039

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and after dinner oh, the Mocha boche!

 

653

01:15:52.670 --> 01:16:09.519

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So the beauchet means this is another meat, so the beauchet means I've caramelized the honey prior to fermentation. It completely changes the flavor profile. And so the same way that the mallard reaction. You, you know, when you cook sugar to make caramel or toffee, that same thing happens with honey.

 

654

01:16:09.660 --> 01:16:18.060

Stolen Harvest Meadery: so I I cook it and caramelize it, and I taste it till and when I get the flavor that I like and the color that I like, I stop, and then I proceed with fermentation.

 

655

01:16:18.260 --> 01:16:24.269

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So that's my after dinner dinner, Sipper and I put it in a brandy snifter, and I feel important.

 

656

01:16:24.820 --> 01:16:28.699

Sean Treacy: Right. So that was the 1st part of my question. And then the next thing is more.

 

657

01:16:28.980 --> 01:16:35.630

Sean Treacy: we're trying to inform you when you hung around in New Zealand with Tony the Greek. Tony's a drug dealer.

 

658

01:16:36.080 --> 01:16:39.980

Sean Treacy: Tony Degreek is a drug dealer's name. Christina.

 

659

01:16:39.980 --> 01:16:40.514

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Seriously.

 

660

01:16:41.050 --> 01:16:46.330

Sean Treacy: No, I'm not investing. It just sounds when you said it there. And I was like, that's a good name for a drug dealer.

 

661

01:16:49.380 --> 01:16:50.810

Sean Treacy: Thanks so much, Christine.

 

662

01:16:51.722 --> 01:16:59.429

Anthony Grogan: Was just listening to that. There's right. We've we've alcohol that that

 

663

01:16:59.780 --> 01:17:07.089

Anthony Grogan: sounds like a dessert, you know, and it's good for you like, do you know what I mean? You're you're taking all the boxes, taking all the.

 

664

01:17:07.090 --> 01:17:31.680

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Well, so yeah, just one more plug on that. It really is probably the healthiest alcohol you'll ever drink. So when I make it. Except for the beauchet, the honey stays raw throughout the fermentation process, all of the ingredients that I use. Like the wild rose petal they're handpicked wild rose petals from Alberta, the fruit that's in it, the saskatoon I work with producers who don't spray.

 

665

01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:42.579

Stolen Harvest Meadery: and so the fruit and the juice from the fruit stays raw throughout the fermentation process as well. So you really. And the antioxidants in the Saskatoon berry alone is just out of this world.

 

666

01:17:42.970 --> 01:17:44.580

Stolen Harvest Meadery: So yeah, it really.

 

667

01:17:45.650 --> 01:17:46.620

Anthony Grogan: We're going to check it out.

 

668

01:17:46.620 --> 01:17:50.000

Stolen Harvest Meadery: To do like dandelion, Rose, Petal.

 

669

01:17:50.310 --> 01:17:53.169

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Saskatoon, or Barry's Borealis, and the Mocochet.

 

670

01:17:53.990 --> 01:18:06.989

Anthony Grogan: Brilliant, fascinating. I'm going to have a peep at your book, and I'll be letting people know over the next couple of episodes, and how I get on with that. And I'm looking for so chicken. Just remind us, chicken poop.

 

671

01:18:06.990 --> 01:18:16.200

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Chicken poop for the soul you can. You can find it on Amazon. If you don't like Amazon, you can go straight to the publisher, which is called Caitlin Press, CAIT. LAN.

 

672

01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:31.100

Anthony Grogan: Brilliant, brilliant Christina. It's been an honor having you on. And it's been fascinating. I'm sure there's gonna be loads of questions, and it's gonna get the conversation flown. I'm pretty sure I know about that. So from myself and Robert, thanks a million for taking the time and.

 

673

01:18:31.100 --> 01:18:31.969

Sean Treacy: Thanks. Christina.

 

674

01:18:32.960 --> 01:18:34.830

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Yeah, you're welcome nice to meet you both.

 

675

01:18:35.530 --> 01:18:37.129

Anthony Grogan: The very, very same to yourself

 

676

01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:38.980

Anthony Grogan: over now, Christiva, talk to you soon.

 

677

01:18:38.980 --> 01:18:39.600

Stolen Harvest Meadery: Okay.

 

678

01:18:40.310 --> 01:18:41.310

Sean Treacy: See ya.

 

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