{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.76,"endTime":4.359,"body":"welcome to the primate cast hey everyone"},{"startTime":2.919,"endTime":6.96,"body":"today we'll have an interview with Dr"},{"startTime":4.359,"endTime":8.28,"body":"Heidi Lynn who's an assistant professor"},{"startTime":6.96,"endTime":11.48,"body":"at the University of Southern"},{"startTime":8.28,"endTime":14.0,"body":"Mississippi where she studies uh animal"},{"startTime":11.48,"endTime":16.119,"body":"cognition uh in a very broad comparative"},{"startTime":14.0,"endTime":18.439,"body":"way yeah and we were lucky enough to sit"},{"startTime":16.119,"endTime":20.519,"body":"down with her uh in in early March when"},{"startTime":18.439,"endTime":21.84,"body":"she came through Japan for a conference"},{"startTime":20.519,"endTime":24.24,"body":"on the evolution of language that was"},{"startTime":21.84,"endTime":26.039,"body":"held in Kyoto and uh she had known about"},{"startTime":24.24,"endTime":27.76,"body":"the PRI and the research that's going on"},{"startTime":26.039,"endTime":31.92,"body":"here so she took the opportunity to come"},{"startTime":27.76,"endTime":33.84,"body":"down and we're happy she did indeed so"},{"startTime":31.92,"endTime":35.8,"body":"welcome to the podcast Heidi Lynn thank"},{"startTime":33.84,"endTime":38.64,"body":"you very much thanks for having me so"},{"startTime":35.8,"endTime":41.96,"body":"you um have a history of working with"},{"startTime":38.64,"endTime":43.92,"body":"bonobos and I also saw from your CV that"},{"startTime":41.96,"endTime":46.48,"body":"you also worked with marine mammals"},{"startTime":43.92,"endTime":48.68,"body":"that's an interesting history yeah"},{"startTime":46.48,"endTime":51.6,"body":"actually I started with marine mammals"},{"startTime":48.68,"endTime":54.76,"body":"and then I had my actually I started as"},{"startTime":51.6,"endTime":56.52,"body":"a linguist back in the day really uh and"},{"startTime":54.76,"endTime":59.0,"body":"language was really very interesting to"},{"startTime":56.52,"endTime":60.8,"body":"me I also saw you at upen I also went to"},{"startTime":59.0,"endTime":63.039,"body":"upen did you"},{"startTime":60.8,"endTime":66.119,"body":"yeah at the same time or a different"},{"startTime":63.039,"endTime":67.52,"body":"time uh I graduated in 2006 okay so way"},{"startTime":66.119,"endTime":70.159,"body":"after"},{"startTime":67.52,"endTime":72.799,"body":"me yes she still a young but I did take"},{"startTime":70.159,"endTime":76.159,"body":"Linguistics there mark Lieberman is he"},{"startTime":72.799,"endTime":79.72,"body":"there oh yeah yeah absolutely so yeah I"},{"startTime":76.159,"endTime":81.96,"body":"um I started as a linguist and uh had"},{"startTime":79.72,"endTime":83.479,"body":"heard about the Washo project with a"},{"startTime":81.96,"endTime":85.24,"body":"sign language using chimpanzees and I"},{"startTime":83.479,"endTime":87.24,"body":"thought that was the coolest thing ever"},{"startTime":85.24,"endTime":89.479,"body":"but they pretty much shut it down and"},{"startTime":87.24,"endTime":91.52,"body":"said oh but you know they found out that"},{"startTime":89.479,"endTime":93.36,"body":"it was really just her imitating and"},{"startTime":91.52,"endTime":97.079,"body":"there's really nothing else we can learn"},{"startTime":93.36,"endTime":100.0,"body":"about that and um my mother took me to"},{"startTime":97.079,"endTime":101.399,"body":"Hawaii for my sister's graduation"},{"startTime":100.0,"endTime":104.64,"body":"present it's a very long story we won't"},{"startTime":101.399,"endTime":106.92,"body":"go into it but uh they sent me to Lou"},{"startTime":104.64,"endTime":109.479,"body":"Herman's lab to visit after they found"},{"startTime":106.92,"endTime":111.92,"body":"out what I was interested in and I said"},{"startTime":109.479,"endTime":113.6,"body":"I have got to work here so I came back"},{"startTime":111.92,"endTime":116.039,"body":"and worked with L Herman's lab for four"},{"startTime":113.6,"endTime":118.399,"body":"years so can you tell us about that lab"},{"startTime":116.039,"endTime":121.119,"body":"like what exactly does it involve it's"},{"startTime":118.399,"endTime":125.96,"body":"Lou Herman's lab was a with um four"},{"startTime":121.119,"endTime":127.6,"body":"dolphins on the beach in Honolulu that"},{"startTime":125.96,"endTime":129.759,"body":"literally you'd stand on the tower"},{"startTime":127.6,"endTime":132.0,"body":"looking at the Dolphins and looking at"},{"startTime":129.759,"endTime":133.76,"body":"Diamond Head and the beaches it was"},{"startTime":132.0,"endTime":137.239,"body":"fantastic it was there was nothing"},{"startTime":133.76,"endTime":140.68,"body":"better than that and uh he had trained"},{"startTime":137.239,"endTime":143.4,"body":"his Dolphins to understand uh gestural"},{"startTime":140.68,"endTime":145.959,"body":"and acoustic signals so that they could"},{"startTime":143.4,"endTime":149.56,"body":"actually recombine different symbols"},{"startTime":145.959,"endTime":152.48,"body":"that meant ball or hoop or fetch or uh"},{"startTime":149.56,"endTime":154.64,"body":"jump over or swim under and he actually"},{"startTime":152.48,"endTime":157.16,"body":"showed some understanding of word order"},{"startTime":154.64,"endTime":158.44,"body":"or symbol order in those Dolphins oh"},{"startTime":157.16,"endTime":159.72,"body":"great so I came and I was watching them"},{"startTime":158.44,"endTime":161.2,"body":"do that and I was like that is the"},{"startTime":159.72,"endTime":163.519,"body":"coolest thing I've ever seen I have got"},{"startTime":161.2,"endTime":165.2,"body":"to come here when I came there they gave"},{"startTime":163.519,"endTime":167.08,"body":"a series of lectures and they talked"},{"startTime":165.2,"endTime":169.239,"body":"about the work that Sue Savage Rumba was"},{"startTime":167.08,"endTime":171.319,"body":"doing with kanzi and the bonobos and"},{"startTime":169.239,"endTime":173.04,"body":"that just completely blew my mind"},{"startTime":171.319,"endTime":174.319,"body":"because of course at pen they basically"},{"startTime":173.04,"endTime":176.12,"body":"said well there's nothing interesting"},{"startTime":174.319,"endTime":177.599,"body":"going on with animals and artificial"},{"startTime":176.12,"endTime":180.959,"body":"communication but clearly there was a"},{"startTime":177.599,"endTime":182.879,"body":"ton still going on and the fact that Ki"},{"startTime":180.959,"endTime":184.519,"body":"ponisha could understand English at the"},{"startTime":182.879,"endTime":185.84,"body":"level of a 2 and a half-year-old child"},{"startTime":184.519,"endTime":188.68,"body":"and that they could actually utilize"},{"startTime":185.84,"endTime":190.92,"body":"their keyboards and you know really"},{"startTime":188.68,"endTime":193.239,"body":"symbolic ways it was just amazing to me"},{"startTime":190.92,"endTime":195.0,"body":"so I made my plan I was going to go to L"},{"startTime":193.239,"endTime":196.2,"body":"Herman's lab for you know a number of"},{"startTime":195.0,"endTime":197.48,"body":"years and I was going to go and I was"},{"startTime":196.2,"endTime":200.36,"body":"going to work with S have a drumbo and"},{"startTime":197.48,"endTime":202.72,"body":"that's what I did oh that's great so so"},{"startTime":200.36,"endTime":204.44,"body":"now actually even PRI has been involved"},{"startTime":202.72,"endTime":206.84,"body":"in some projects but we hear a lot about"},{"startTime":204.44,"endTime":209.56,"body":"this uh the parallels between for"},{"startTime":206.84,"endTime":211.12,"body":"example citations and and primates and"},{"startTime":209.56,"endTime":213.159,"body":"uh a lot of aspects of social behavior"},{"startTime":211.12,"endTime":217.04,"body":"and also cognition but this is also"},{"startTime":213.159,"endTime":218.92,"body":"going back a number of years so um yeah"},{"startTime":217.04,"endTime":221.28,"body":"I did a um I did a paper recently"},{"startTime":218.92,"endTime":223.599,"body":"actually looking not really specifically"},{"startTime":221.28,"endTime":225.319,"body":"at these artificial language systems and"},{"startTime":223.599,"endTime":228.319,"body":"in Dolphins what's been interesting"},{"startTime":225.319,"endTime":229.76,"body":"about the language language like systems"},{"startTime":228.319,"endTime":231.879,"body":"that they've created with dolphins is"},{"startTime":229.76,"endTime":234.12,"body":"that they were all one way so there was"},{"startTime":231.879,"endTime":236.28,"body":"um Lou Herman's which was focused on"},{"startTime":234.12,"endTime":237.72,"body":"comprehension so humans would make the"},{"startTime":236.28,"endTime":240.92,"body":"signals and the Dolphins would have to"},{"startTime":237.72,"endTime":242.439,"body":"follow them and then Diaries had created"},{"startTime":240.92,"endTime":244.0,"body":"a keyboard system where the Dolphins"},{"startTime":242.439,"endTime":245.36,"body":"could come and press the keys on the"},{"startTime":244.0,"endTime":247.319,"body":"keyboards and a whistle would play and"},{"startTime":245.36,"endTime":248.72,"body":"then they would get whatever it was that"},{"startTime":247.319,"endTime":250.239,"body":"was associated with the key that pressed"},{"startTime":248.72,"endTime":252.4,"body":"so they had production on one side and"},{"startTime":250.239,"endTime":253.64,"body":"and comprehension on the other and then"},{"startTime":252.4,"endTime":254.72,"body":"I took the language Research Center"},{"startTime":253.64,"endTime":256.239,"body":"which had both comprehension and"},{"startTime":254.72,"endTime":257.88,"body":"production but I showed it all the"},{"startTime":256.239,"endTime":260.12,"body":"parallels that we saw just in those"},{"startTime":257.88,"endTime":262.0,"body":"artificial language systems so like"},{"startTime":260.12,"endTime":264.32,"body":"acquisition of symbols which was really"},{"startTime":262.0,"endTime":267.04,"body":"really fast for both of them afterward"},{"startTime":264.32,"endTime":268.88,"body":"they started combining signals they"},{"startTime":267.04,"endTime":269.759,"body":"would press the key a whistle would play"},{"startTime":268.88,"endTime":272.68,"body":"and it was a whistle that they had"},{"startTime":269.759,"endTime":275.56,"body":"hadn't heard in their um repertoire up"},{"startTime":272.68,"endTime":277.6,"body":"to that point was this like a keyboard"},{"startTime":275.56,"endTime":279.16,"body":"it was be in the water in the water"},{"startTime":277.6,"endTime":280.36,"body":"underwater key underwater keyboard and"},{"startTime":279.16,"endTime":282.88,"body":"then they would just push and it was a"},{"startTime":280.36,"endTime":284.56,"body":"mechanical press onon a bunch of buttons"},{"startTime":282.88,"endTime":287.08,"body":"yeah are they big or how they were"},{"startTime":284.56,"endTime":289.32,"body":"pretty big they're about about 4 in you"},{"startTime":287.08,"endTime":291.16,"body":"know and they have like scrims on them"},{"startTime":289.32,"endTime":292.479,"body":"they were just really simple symbols at"},{"startTime":291.16,"endTime":294.16,"body":"that point there was just like a you"},{"startTime":292.479,"endTime":296.759,"body":"know a ring or an X or something they"},{"startTime":294.16,"endTime":298.24,"body":"didn't get very far um the but the do"},{"startTime":296.759,"endTime":299.919,"body":"and the Dolphins were pretty young but"},{"startTime":298.24,"endTime":301.28,"body":"they you know they only went for about 4"},{"startTime":299.919,"endTime":304.16,"body":"years I want to say that whole project"},{"startTime":301.28,"endTime":305.199,"body":"was only four years long okay but um"},{"startTime":304.16,"endTime":308.72,"body":"what started happening was that the"},{"startTime":305.199,"endTime":310.36,"body":"Dolphins would whistle the whistle as"},{"startTime":308.72,"endTime":312.08,"body":"they approach the keyboard so they would"},{"startTime":310.36,"endTime":313.52,"body":"whistle the ball whistle then they push"},{"startTime":312.08,"endTime":315.36,"body":"the button and then they would whistle"},{"startTime":313.52,"endTime":317.32,"body":"the ball whistle and then they started"},{"startTime":315.36,"endTime":319.16,"body":"seeing that they were hear the ball"},{"startTime":317.32,"endTime":321.36,"body":"Whistle While one of the Dolphins was"},{"startTime":319.16,"endTime":322.84,"body":"playing with the ball in the pool and"},{"startTime":321.36,"endTime":325.6,"body":"then what they started seeing was this"},{"startTime":322.84,"endTime":327.28,"body":"ball and ring whistle combination where"},{"startTime":325.6,"endTime":329.24,"body":"they had sort of mashed them together"},{"startTime":327.28,"endTime":331.08,"body":"and the keyboard didn't allow that you"},{"startTime":329.24,"endTime":332.12,"body":"there was a half a second pause so even"},{"startTime":331.08,"endTime":333.6,"body":"if you pushed a button and pushed a"},{"startTime":332.12,"endTime":335.6,"body":"button really quick there was a break"},{"startTime":333.6,"endTime":337.4,"body":"between them okay but they had actually"},{"startTime":335.6,"endTime":339.199,"body":"sort of combined them completely into"},{"startTime":337.4,"endTime":340.84,"body":"one whistle that's cool and that only"},{"startTime":339.199,"endTime":342.28,"body":"showed up at a time when they started"},{"startTime":340.84,"endTime":345.08,"body":"playing with both the ball and the ring"},{"startTime":342.28,"endTime":347.6,"body":"in their mouth at the same time oh wow"},{"startTime":345.08,"endTime":349.639,"body":"so there was some really amazing stuff"},{"startTime":347.6,"endTime":352.759,"body":"going on one side or the other the"},{"startTime":349.639,"endTime":355.28,"body":"combination stuff is amazing in um in"},{"startTime":352.759,"endTime":357.96,"body":"Lou Herman's work uh and we saw a lot of"},{"startTime":355.28,"endTime":360.88,"body":"the same kind of stuff in the Apes and"},{"startTime":357.96,"endTime":363.16,"body":"the Apes the ape work was actually"},{"startTime":360.88,"endTime":365.6,"body":"more complex only because it's such a"},{"startTime":363.16,"endTime":367.759,"body":"longer period of time that those Apes"},{"startTime":365.6,"endTime":370.08,"body":"had been working and the fact that they"},{"startTime":367.759,"endTime":371.28,"body":"have so many abilities that are same"},{"startTime":370.08,"endTime":373.599,"body":"similar to humans so that we could"},{"startTime":371.28,"endTime":374.88,"body":"actually see them a lot easier so I mean"},{"startTime":373.599,"endTime":377.8,"body":"just the fact that they can understand"},{"startTime":374.88,"endTime":379.88,"body":"English any English at all but they can"},{"startTime":377.8,"endTime":383.36,"body":"understand pretty complex English"},{"startTime":379.88,"endTime":385.28,"body":"sentences um is pretty amazing so the"},{"startTime":383.36,"endTime":386.639,"body":"chimps and bonobos have been shown to"},{"startTime":385.28,"endTime":389.919,"body":"understand a lot of components of"},{"startTime":386.639,"endTime":392.0,"body":"language like verbs like give me or play"},{"startTime":389.919,"endTime":394.0,"body":"so how about the Dolphins can they they"},{"startTime":392.0,"endTime":397.56,"body":"did yeah so what they had the Dolphins"},{"startTime":394.0,"endTime":400.44,"body":"had um about 10 different objects and"},{"startTime":397.56,"endTime":401.96,"body":"they had um six different actions I want"},{"startTime":400.44,"endTime":403.72,"body":"to say and then they had different"},{"startTime":401.96,"endTime":406.4,"body":"modifiers oh I see so they could"},{"startTime":403.72,"endTime":409.639,"body":"actually do things like uh right hoop"},{"startTime":406.4,"endTime":411.919,"body":"left ball fetch so they actually used"},{"startTime":409.639,"endTime":415.12,"body":"two different syntaxes to Phoenix had an"},{"startTime":411.919,"endTime":419.24,"body":"acoustic system okay I had a gestural"},{"startTime":415.12,"endTime":420.56,"body":"system and they would um a K's system"},{"startTime":419.24,"endTime":424.0,"body":"said"},{"startTime":420.56,"endTime":425.639,"body":"indirect object direct object action so"},{"startTime":424.0,"endTime":427.72,"body":"what they would say if they said hoop"},{"startTime":425.639,"endTime":430.28,"body":"ball fetch it meant take the ball to the"},{"startTime":427.72,"endTime":432.0,"body":"hoop MH and so she would have to"},{"startTime":430.28,"endTime":434.0,"body":"reorganize things in her brain a little"},{"startTime":432.0,"endTime":437.12,"body":"bit that's interesting but they could do"},{"startTime":434.0,"endTime":439.4,"body":"up to five yeah about up to five symbol"},{"startTime":437.12,"endTime":441.479,"body":"sequences basically left hoop right ball"},{"startTime":439.4,"endTime":445.039,"body":"Fetch and stuff like that W she could"},{"startTime":441.479,"endTime":446.879,"body":"get it it's cool it was very cool"},{"startTime":445.039,"endTime":448.639,"body":"actually here's the here's my favorite"},{"startTime":446.879,"endTime":450.919,"body":"story they also created a question"},{"startTime":448.639,"endTime":452.639,"body":"system where they had um two paddles one"},{"startTime":450.919,"endTime":455.759,"body":"was glossed as yes and one was glossed"},{"startTime":452.639,"endTime":457.16,"body":"as no and they would put a bunch of um"},{"startTime":455.759,"endTime":459.68,"body":"objects in the pool and they would ask"},{"startTime":457.16,"endTime":461.12,"body":"her ball yes or ball question which"},{"startTime":459.68,"endTime":462.759,"body":"means is there a ball in the pool and"},{"startTime":461.12,"endTime":464.72,"body":"she would answer yes or no whether there"},{"startTime":462.759,"endTime":467.919,"body":"was a ball in the pool so once they"},{"startTime":464.72,"endTime":469.52,"body":"asked her to take a ball to a basket and"},{"startTime":467.919,"endTime":471.28,"body":"the basket was not in the pool and they"},{"startTime":469.52,"endTime":473.24,"body":"were like what'll she do and she went"},{"startTime":471.28,"endTime":474.68,"body":"and she grabbed the ball and she took it"},{"startTime":473.24,"endTime":479.56,"body":"to the no"},{"startTime":474.68,"endTime":481.0,"body":"paddle like that is super cool"},{"startTime":479.56,"endTime":482.28,"body":"so they tested her again on that kind of"},{"startTime":481.0,"endTime":484.4,"body":"stuff and she would do that she'd start"},{"startTime":482.28,"endTime":485.56,"body":"combining things like they' tell her to"},{"startTime":484.4,"endTime":487.639,"body":"jump over something that wasn't there"},{"startTime":485.56,"endTime":489.319,"body":"and she'd jump over the no paddle and"},{"startTime":487.639,"endTime":491.96,"body":"and stuff like that so very cool very"},{"startTime":489.319,"endTime":494.479,"body":"inventive yes very"},{"startTime":491.96,"endTime":497.479,"body":"creative creative that girl so by the"},{"startTime":494.479,"endTime":500.639,"body":"time you went to the laboratory with kzi"},{"startTime":497.479,"endTime":502.52,"body":"and pan banisha you already had some"},{"startTime":500.639,"endTime":504.44,"body":"experience with yeah i' had already been"},{"startTime":502.52,"endTime":507.039,"body":"there for almost four years actually"},{"startTime":504.44,"endTime":509.12,"body":"okay that's great and what was your"},{"startTime":507.039,"endTime":510.479,"body":"focus when you were studying kzi and"},{"startTime":509.12,"endTime":512.959,"body":"pimpan"},{"startTime":510.479,"endTime":514.719,"body":"um for Kan and Pisha I did two I had a"},{"startTime":512.959,"endTime":516.24,"body":"master's thesis which was on Fast"},{"startTime":514.719,"endTime":517.64,"body":"mapping which was bringing in new"},{"startTime":516.24,"endTime":521.2,"body":"objects and seeing how fast they could"},{"startTime":517.64,"endTime":523.0,"body":"learn English words and they could uh"},{"startTime":521.2,"endTime":526.8,"body":"coni in particular was very good at that"},{"startTime":523.0,"endTime":529.32,"body":"task and he passed on his first test"},{"startTime":526.8,"endTime":532.6,"body":"half the time so that's great really"},{"startTime":529.32,"endTime":534.519,"body":"fast um my dissertation project was on"},{"startTime":532.6,"endTime":537.76,"body":"vocabulary errors and what I was trying"},{"startTime":534.519,"endTime":539.92,"body":"to look at was um the fact that when we"},{"startTime":537.76,"endTime":541.399,"body":"would ask them that have their entire"},{"startTime":539.92,"endTime":542.6,"body":"keyboard in front of them and just to"},{"startTime":541.399,"endTime":544.959,"body":"pass the time sometimes we would ask"},{"startTime":542.6,"endTime":547.48,"body":"them to find things on their keyboards"},{"startTime":544.959,"endTime":549.68,"body":"and the errors that they made were"},{"startTime":547.48,"endTime":551.48,"body":"clearly non-random so we' ask them to"},{"startTime":549.68,"endTime":553.32,"body":"find lemons and they would touch"},{"startTime":551.48,"endTime":555.04,"body":"lemonade or something like that where we"},{"startTime":553.32,"endTime":556.44,"body":"were like okay we can clearly see where"},{"startTime":555.04,"endTime":557.959,"body":"they got that error from it wasn't"},{"startTime":556.44,"endTime":560.04,"body":"they're just not randomly pointing to"},{"startTime":557.959,"endTime":561.6,"body":"stuff so I actually went back and"},{"startTime":560.04,"endTime":564.24,"body":"gathered all of their vocabulary test"},{"startTime":561.6,"endTime":566.88,"body":"data for the for 10e period and put it"},{"startTime":564.24,"endTime":569.56,"body":"all together and started coding"},{"startTime":566.88,"endTime":570.88,"body":"it and it became really intense because"},{"startTime":569.56,"endTime":573.16,"body":"there was a lot of codes you could do"},{"startTime":570.88,"endTime":574.64,"body":"was it auditorally similar in the"},{"startTime":573.16,"endTime":577.0,"body":"English language were the lexigrams"},{"startTime":574.64,"endTime":579.92,"body":"similar did they look similar were they"},{"startTime":577.0,"endTime":583.12,"body":"functionally related but what we showed"},{"startTime":579.92,"endTime":585.44,"body":"was that in contrast to this idea"},{"startTime":583.12,"endTime":587.44,"body":"of um their understanding of their"},{"startTime":585.44,"endTime":589.399,"body":"lexigrams being"},{"startTime":587.44,"endTime":590.32,"body":"associative um you would expect them"},{"startTime":589.399,"endTime":594.48,"body":"then"},{"startTime":590.32,"endTime":596.56,"body":"to uh you would expect them to to"},{"startTime":594.48,"endTime":600.2,"body":"confuse lexigrams with lexigrams that"},{"startTime":596.56,"endTime":602.32,"body":"looked like each other more often"},{"startTime":600.2,"endTime":603.56,"body":"but actually what you found was that the"},{"startTime":602.32,"endTime":606.519,"body":"majority of their errors were"},{"startTime":603.56,"endTime":607.88,"body":"categorically related okay and they were"},{"startTime":606.519,"endTime":609.36,"body":"also sort of hierarchically"},{"startTime":607.88,"endTime":611.04,"body":"categorically related so you could see"},{"startTime":609.36,"endTime":613.399,"body":"them making errors within objects but"},{"startTime":611.04,"endTime":615.12,"body":"then within foods and then within"},{"startTime":613.399,"endTime":616.8,"body":"certain kinds of foods like desserts"},{"startTime":615.12,"endTime":619.16,"body":"were more likely to be you know confused"},{"startTime":616.8,"endTime":621.48,"body":"with desserts fruits with fruits Etc"},{"startTime":619.16,"endTime":624.2,"body":"like that and I saw you had a paper out"},{"startTime":621.48,"endTime":628.0,"body":"recently about um it was it was cool it"},{"startTime":624.2,"endTime":630.12,"body":"it com it Compares chimps one chimp and"},{"startTime":628.0,"endTime":633.0,"body":"bonobos and ch"},{"startTime":630.12,"endTime":636.56,"body":"so and about declarative declarative"},{"startTime":633.0,"endTime":639.04,"body":"yeah so um it's been a lot of talk about"},{"startTime":636.56,"endTime":641.56,"body":"declarations and requests and the idea"},{"startTime":639.04,"endTime":644.8,"body":"that these language using Apes only use"},{"startTime":641.56,"endTime":646.68,"body":"it to request items or ask for something"},{"startTime":644.8,"endTime":648.68,"body":"and that what's different is that humans"},{"startTime":646.68,"endTime":651.68,"body":"use it mainly to share information"},{"startTime":648.68,"endTime":654.12,"body":"that's not act about acquiring anything"},{"startTime":651.68,"endTime":656.839,"body":"so what I went back again I have this I"},{"startTime":654.12,"endTime":660.639,"body":"have actually an utterance database of"},{"startTime":656.839,"endTime":662.88,"body":"uh over a 100,000 uses of the key Bo by"},{"startTime":660.639,"endTime":665.04,"body":"all of the chimps wow and we combined it"},{"startTime":662.88,"endTime":667.72,"body":"with some diary work that had been"},{"startTime":665.04,"endTime":670.279,"body":"done uh with young children in the"},{"startTime":667.72,"endTime":672.639,"body":"one-word stage and so we took uh the"},{"startTime":670.279,"endTime":675.04,"body":"kids data and we had the three Apes data"},{"startTime":672.639,"endTime":676.36,"body":"and we started looking at declaratives"},{"startTime":675.04,"endTime":678.36,"body":"and just pulling out the declaratives"},{"startTime":676.36,"endTime":680.92,"body":"and looking at the types of declaratives"},{"startTime":678.36,"endTime":683.959,"body":"now what we saw is that Apes do make a"},{"startTime":680.92,"endTime":686.6,"body":"lot fewer declaratives than um the"},{"startTime":683.959,"endTime":688.36,"body":"children do it's hard to tell exactly"},{"startTime":686.6,"endTime":689.92,"body":"why that is though because apes are in"},{"startTime":688.36,"endTime":691.639,"body":"captivity they have to ask for"},{"startTime":689.92,"endTime":693.24,"body":"everything it's you know it's a bit"},{"startTime":691.639,"endTime":694.639,"body":"harder but they certainly make a lot of"},{"startTime":693.24,"endTime":698.16,"body":"declaratives and they make the same"},{"startTime":694.639,"endTime":700.04,"body":"kinds of declaratives as kids do there"},{"startTime":698.16,"endTime":701.56,"body":"were only one or two examples of"},{"startTime":700.04,"endTime":703.839,"body":"declarative types that we saw in kids"},{"startTime":701.56,"endTime":706.36,"body":"and we didn't see in Apes can you give"},{"startTime":703.839,"endTime":708.399,"body":"us some of those examples sure uh well"},{"startTime":706.36,"endTime":709.6,"body":"the the most the most obvious one"},{"startTime":708.399,"endTime":711.519,"body":"actually is that kids do a lot of"},{"startTime":709.6,"endTime":713.76,"body":"showing they'll pick something up and"},{"startTime":711.519,"endTime":714.72,"body":"they'll say you know plain and they just"},{"startTime":713.76,"endTime":715.8,"body":"want you to look at it they don't want"},{"startTime":714.72,"endTime":717.12,"body":"you to touch it they don't want you to"},{"startTime":715.8,"endTime":718.68,"body":"take it they don't want anything about"},{"startTime":717.12,"endTime":720.76,"body":"it they just want to show it to you and"},{"startTime":718.68,"endTime":722.079,"body":"we didn't see we only saw that once in"},{"startTime":720.76,"endTime":723.16,"body":"in an ape where they actually were just"},{"startTime":722.079,"endTime":726.32,"body":"showing"},{"startTime":723.16,"endTime":729.079,"body":"something um and then attention getting"},{"startTime":726.32,"endTime":730.36,"body":"like a a you know Mom they didn't do"},{"startTime":729.079,"endTime":732.04,"body":"that either like if they wanted your"},{"startTime":730.36,"endTime":734.0,"body":"attention they'd walk over and touch you"},{"startTime":732.04,"endTime":735.56,"body":"so we didn't see the uses of the"},{"startTime":734.0,"endTime":737.92,"body":"keyboard for that"},{"startTime":735.56,"endTime":741.48,"body":"purpose but most of the other types we"},{"startTime":737.92,"endTime":743.04,"body":"saw we saw um we including things like"},{"startTime":741.48,"endTime":744.88,"body":"um talking about things that had happen"},{"startTime":743.04,"endTime":747.04,"body":"in the past or talking about plans that"},{"startTime":744.88,"endTime":749.399,"body":"they were making in the future so they"},{"startTime":747.04,"endTime":750.519,"body":"would be in a in a car going some place"},{"startTime":749.399,"endTime":752.04,"body":"and they would they would on the"},{"startTime":750.519,"endTime":755.0,"body":"keyboard they would say where they were"},{"startTime":752.04,"endTime":756.88,"body":"going or um they'd pass a place where"},{"startTime":755.0,"endTime":759.04,"body":"they had seen a squashed Turtle the day"},{"startTime":756.88,"endTime":762.72,"body":"before and they say turtle at the"},{"startTime":759.04,"endTime":763.519,"body":"keyboard stuff like that so um a lot of"},{"startTime":762.72,"endTime":766.68,"body":"really"},{"startTime":763.519,"endTime":770.68,"body":"interesting uses of declaratives and you"},{"startTime":766.68,"endTime":772.92,"body":"know the upshot was that while there may"},{"startTime":770.68,"endTime":776.24,"body":"be something to this idea that humans do"},{"startTime":772.92,"endTime":778.36,"body":"a lot more sharing than other species do"},{"startTime":776.24,"endTime":780.6,"body":"obviously other species still do have"},{"startTime":778.36,"endTime":782.32,"body":"that capability it is bi it it doesn't"},{"startTime":780.6,"endTime":784.24,"body":"seem to be a biological difference"},{"startTime":782.32,"endTime":787.959,"body":"between us and them but possibly an"},{"startTime":784.24,"endTime":789.839,"body":"environmental one so to that regard then"},{"startTime":787.959,"endTime":791.279,"body":"in in nature for example where would you"},{"startTime":789.839,"endTime":793.279,"body":"see the use of these types of"},{"startTime":791.279,"endTime":796.519,"body":"declaratives between individuals that's"},{"startTime":793.279,"endTime":798.279,"body":"a good question right I mean why do the"},{"startTime":796.519,"endTime":799.8,"body":"the the only time you would see anything"},{"startTime":798.279,"endTime":803.56,"body":"that even remotely resembles a"},{"startTime":799.8,"endTime":805.44,"body":"declarative is an alarm call and um"},{"startTime":803.56,"endTime":808.0,"body":"alarm calls can be there's a lot of"},{"startTime":805.44,"endTime":809.72,"body":"discussion about how symbolic they"},{"startTime":808.0,"endTime":812.839,"body":"really are how referential they really"},{"startTime":809.72,"endTime":814.76,"body":"are and um you know there is an audience"},{"startTime":812.839,"endTime":816.24,"body":"effect in most cases so for example"},{"startTime":814.76,"endTime":818.0,"body":"verbet monkeys won't necessarily make an"},{"startTime":816.24,"endTime":820.16,"body":"alarm call if there aren't other verbet"},{"startTime":818.0,"endTime":822.44,"body":"mon monkeys around to hear them it"},{"startTime":820.16,"endTime":825.6,"body":"actually is not to their advantage to do"},{"startTime":822.44,"endTime":827.0,"body":"so um but how much do they understand"},{"startTime":825.6,"endTime":830.88,"body":"about those alarm calls is a different"},{"startTime":827.0,"endTime":833.56,"body":"question so um most of the time when"},{"startTime":830.88,"endTime":835.279,"body":"you're in a more natural situation in"},{"startTime":833.56,"endTime":837.44,"body":"the woods and you're you're competing"},{"startTime":835.279,"endTime":839.519,"body":"with other members of your own species"},{"startTime":837.44,"endTime":842.199,"body":"there's not a huge amount of Cooper that"},{"startTime":839.519,"endTime":843.759,"body":"goes on now the other time I can think"},{"startTime":842.199,"endTime":845.36,"body":"of that that might be useful at least"},{"startTime":843.759,"endTime":847.32,"body":"for chimpanzees to share information is"},{"startTime":845.36,"endTime":848.48,"body":"when they're cooperatively hunting M so"},{"startTime":847.32,"endTime":850.88,"body":"they're actually trying to get each"},{"startTime":848.48,"endTime":853.32,"body":"other's attention to you know explain"},{"startTime":850.88,"endTime":857.199,"body":"where to go or what to do I'm not sure"},{"startTime":853.32,"endTime":861.24,"body":"that that happens but so I I have a"},{"startTime":857.199,"endTime":863.68,"body":"question about um I'm fascinated by the"},{"startTime":861.24,"endTime":865.839,"body":"chimpanzee and the ape language projects"},{"startTime":863.68,"endTime":867.72,"body":"I like to read all about them and I"},{"startTime":865.839,"endTime":871.04,"body":"wonder if someone that's actually worked"},{"startTime":867.72,"endTime":872.88,"body":"on one um"},{"startTime":871.04,"endTime":875.24,"body":"it's it seems to me like there's a"},{"startTime":872.88,"endTime":878.24,"body":"component of of the project which has to"},{"startTime":875.24,"endTime":881.24,"body":"do with always being surprised by"},{"startTime":878.24,"endTime":883.48,"body":"interesting things that the subjects are"},{"startTime":881.24,"endTime":885.839,"body":"doing but they're not"},{"startTime":883.48,"endTime":887.56,"body":"being G that that data is not being"},{"startTime":885.839,"endTime":889.519,"body":"gathered in a systematic way so it just"},{"startTime":887.56,"endTime":892.199,"body":"serves as anecdotes and then you have"},{"startTime":889.519,"endTime":894.6,"body":"your separate research program and I"},{"startTime":892.199,"endTime":896.56,"body":"wonder is it is it frustrating if you"},{"startTime":894.6,"endTime":899.04,"body":"see them do these amazing things but you"},{"startTime":896.56,"endTime":901.399,"body":"know that you don't have a way of pro"},{"startTime":899.04,"endTime":902.759,"body":"moving it because they only do it once"},{"startTime":901.399,"endTime":905.279,"body":"like you said about the turtle on the"},{"startTime":902.759,"endTime":907.88,"body":"side of the road it's so extraordinarily"},{"startTime":905.279,"endTime":910.32,"body":"frustrating and to try and come up with"},{"startTime":907.88,"endTime":912.839,"body":"part of the problem is when you try"},{"startTime":910.32,"endTime":914.639,"body":"to create experiments around some of"},{"startTime":912.839,"endTime":916.48,"body":"these anecdotes there's a fantastic"},{"startTime":914.639,"endTime":920.8,"body":"anecdote actually one of my favorites of"},{"startTime":916.48,"endTime":923.04,"body":"all time and uh kti and ponisha are in a"},{"startTime":920.8,"endTime":925.399,"body":"Playard area and they have visitors so"},{"startTime":923.04,"endTime":927.32,"body":"they're interacting with these um new"},{"startTime":925.399,"endTime":929.079,"body":"people who have come in and they are"},{"startTime":927.32,"endTime":931.639,"body":"given juice and they don't normally get"},{"startTime":929.079,"endTime":934.399,"body":"get juice at that point in time anyway"},{"startTime":931.639,"endTime":936.72,"body":"and um Kani puts down his juice to"},{"startTime":934.399,"endTime":939.319,"body":"interact with the visitor and turns his"},{"startTime":936.72,"endTime":942.399,"body":"back and Pamona sort of Walks Behind him"},{"startTime":939.319,"endTime":945.399,"body":"pours half of his juice into her cup and"},{"startTime":942.399,"endTime":947.88,"body":"then puts his cup down and walks away Dr"},{"startTime":945.399,"endTime":949.959,"body":"was like oh my God that is amazing like"},{"startTime":947.88,"endTime":952.44,"body":"first the deception second of all to"},{"startTime":949.959,"endTime":954.16,"body":"realize that he is going to like if you"},{"startTime":952.44,"endTime":957.44,"body":"take all of his juice he's clearly going"},{"startTime":954.16,"endTime":960.199,"body":"to know that you only take half of his"},{"startTime":957.44,"endTime":961.639,"body":"juice it and I kept trying to wre my"},{"startTime":960.199,"endTime":964.0,"body":"brains to come up with a good way to"},{"startTime":961.639,"endTime":967.279,"body":"test for that kind of deception but once"},{"startTime":964.0,"endTime":969.279,"body":"you sort of artificially create those"},{"startTime":967.279,"endTime":970.88,"body":"situations a lot of these Apes"},{"startTime":969.279,"endTime":973.56,"body":"especially the language confident apes"},{"startTime":970.88,"endTime":975.199,"body":"are looking for what trick is up your s"},{"startTime":973.56,"endTime":976.8,"body":"and they're really just trying to figure"},{"startTime":975.199,"endTime":978.519,"body":"out what the heck it I mean it's demand"},{"startTime":976.8,"endTime":979.44,"body":"characteristics to the nth degree and"},{"startTime":978.519,"endTime":982.519,"body":"they're just trying to figure out what"},{"startTime":979.44,"endTime":983.88,"body":"it is they're supposed to do yeah and so"},{"startTime":982.519,"endTime":986.279,"body":"I have some similar things that have"},{"startTime":983.88,"endTime":988.8,"body":"happened here for example when camera"},{"startTime":986.279,"endTime":990.56,"body":"Crews come The Chimps do a lot better"},{"startTime":988.8,"endTime":992.24,"body":"yeah at their tasks that's great because"},{"startTime":990.56,"endTime":994.48,"body":"that there must be some kind of audience"},{"startTime":992.24,"endTime":996.44,"body":"effect there they know they know what"},{"startTime":994.48,"endTime":998.319,"body":"cameras are yeah and we have our video"},{"startTime":996.44,"endTime":1000.279,"body":"cameras which have the screen on them"},{"startTime":998.319,"endTime":1001.68,"body":"you can flip it around they can see that"},{"startTime":1000.279,"endTime":1005.16,"body":"they're on it so they must have some"},{"startTime":1001.68,"endTime":1006.56,"body":"idea of what a a camera is I don't know"},{"startTime":1005.16,"endTime":1009.04,"body":"I don't even know if it's that that's it"},{"startTime":1006.56,"endTime":1011.399,"body":"though because a Ki at in Hawaii used to"},{"startTime":1009.04,"endTime":1014.279,"body":"do like her jumps were twice as high and"},{"startTime":1011.399,"endTime":1015.519,"body":"her she just did things all so with so"},{"startTime":1014.279,"endTime":1017.279,"body":"much more energy when there's a camera"},{"startTime":1015.519,"endTime":1019.36,"body":"crew around and I don't know if it was"},{"startTime":1017.279,"endTime":1022.12,"body":"the camera itself or"},{"startTime":1019.36,"endTime":1023.48,"body":"people the excitement was going on so"},{"startTime":1022.12,"endTime":1025.88,"body":"all of these things would be interesting"},{"startTime":1023.48,"endTime":1027.72,"body":"from an audience effect type of study"},{"startTime":1025.88,"endTime":1030.36,"body":"perspective to study but if you brought"},{"startTime":1027.72,"endTime":1032.48,"body":"in camera Crews like enough times to do"},{"startTime":1030.36,"endTime":1034.679,"body":"a study then maybe they would be"},{"startTime":1032.48,"endTime":1036.88,"body":"habituated entirely possible it seems"},{"startTime":1034.679,"endTime":1039.12,"body":"like a problem for these interesting"},{"startTime":1036.88,"endTime":1042.559,"body":"anecdotes I did start actually I'm"},{"startTime":1039.12,"endTime":1044.64,"body":"trying to do my my big problem has been"},{"startTime":1042.559,"endTime":1046.36,"body":"declarative production so I'm really"},{"startTime":1044.64,"endTime":1048.559,"body":"interested in this whole idea of can"},{"startTime":1046.36,"endTime":1050.799,"body":"they obviously they can declaratively"},{"startTime":1048.559,"endTime":1052.44,"body":"point as well as everything else and I"},{"startTime":1050.799,"endTime":1054.28,"body":"try to do this experimentally because"},{"startTime":1052.44,"endTime":1056.12,"body":"obviously because I have all the"},{"startTime":1054.28,"endTime":1057.96,"body":"utterance data I can pull it out there"},{"startTime":1056.12,"endTime":1059.4,"body":"but a lot of people don't feel like do"},{"startTime":1057.96,"endTime":1062.96,"body":"feel like that's more anecdotal even"},{"startTime":1059.4,"endTime":1065.799,"body":"though it's a 100 thousand anecdotes um"},{"startTime":1062.96,"endTime":1067.96,"body":"but we created this similar situation to"},{"startTime":1065.799,"endTime":1070.36,"body":"what they do with kids and they we had"},{"startTime":1067.96,"endTime":1072.2,"body":"you know things happening behind us that"},{"startTime":1070.36,"endTime":1073.32,"body":"the chimpanzees or or the bonovas that"},{"startTime":1072.2,"endTime":1076.28,"body":"in this case were actually supposed to"},{"startTime":1073.32,"endTime":1077.96,"body":"then point to us and we got several good"},{"startTime":1076.28,"endTime":1079.799,"body":"examples of them pointing these things"},{"startTime":1077.96,"endTime":1081.6,"body":"out but again we were trying to do it"},{"startTime":1079.799,"endTime":1084.48,"body":"too quickly so there"},{"startTime":1081.6,"endTime":1086.0,"body":"were five or six things happening in one"},{"startTime":1084.48,"endTime":1088.36,"body":"day and they just stopped pointing and"},{"startTime":1086.0,"endTime":1089.88,"body":"they're just like oh yeah you guys are"},{"startTime":1088.36,"endTime":1091.84,"body":"being crazy again there's stuff going on"},{"startTime":1089.88,"endTime":1094.72,"body":"behind you whatever or you know they"},{"startTime":1091.84,"endTime":1096.4,"body":"were across the the very very large cage"},{"startTime":1094.72,"endTime":1097.76,"body":"and they were pointing like here in"},{"startTime":1096.4,"endTime":1100.52,"body":"front of their bodies and so you can't"},{"startTime":1097.76,"endTime":1102.64,"body":"actually see that on video at all um so"},{"startTime":1100.52,"endTime":1104.44,"body":"I have one example that is clear on"},{"startTime":1102.64,"endTime":1107.159,"body":"video that I could actually"},{"startTime":1104.44,"endTime":1110.12,"body":"show of a declarative"},{"startTime":1107.159,"endTime":1112.36,"body":"point so what I actually thought was"},{"startTime":1110.12,"endTime":1113.919,"body":"maybe what I need to do instead of you"},{"startTime":1112.36,"endTime":1115.52,"body":"know going getting the data and then"},{"startTime":1113.919,"endTime":1120.799,"body":"writing up the paper is look at this as"},{"startTime":1115.52,"endTime":1123.08,"body":"a much more longterm project so with you"},{"startTime":1120.799,"endTime":1125.919,"body":"know limit me down to take me down to"},{"startTime":1123.08,"endTime":1130.12,"body":"four bonobos and every time I go up I"},{"startTime":1125.919,"endTime":1132.96,"body":"try to collect one trial on one of them"},{"startTime":1130.12,"endTime":1135.64,"body":"you know and then in 10 years I'll"},{"startTime":1132.96,"endTime":1137.88,"body":"have that's great but for that kind of"},{"startTime":1135.64,"endTime":1139.679,"body":"stuff it might be that's sort of the way"},{"startTime":1137.88,"endTime":1142.4,"body":"we have to start thinking it now and"},{"startTime":1139.679,"endTime":1144.2,"body":"just can't cuz you just can't get enough"},{"startTime":1142.4,"endTime":1146.32,"body":"of those interesting things happening at"},{"startTime":1144.2,"endTime":1148.84,"body":"once or if you try and do it"},{"startTime":1146.32,"endTime":1151.88,"body":"systematically in a short time then it"},{"startTime":1148.84,"endTime":1154.0,"body":"loses it loses everything and the"},{"startTime":1151.88,"endTime":1156.08,"body":"spontaneity is all about that's the hard"},{"startTime":1154.0,"endTime":1159.12,"body":"part it's studing spontaneous Behavior"},{"startTime":1156.08,"endTime":1162.159,"body":"exactly um okay so can you tell us about"},{"startTime":1159.12,"endTime":1164.84,"body":"your current research uh what am I doing"},{"startTime":1162.159,"endTime":1168.159,"body":"currently I don't even remember anymore"},{"startTime":1164.84,"endTime":1172.039,"body":"um actually I have a spatial memory"},{"startTime":1168.159,"endTime":1175.559,"body":"project that I'm doing uh with uh more"},{"startTime":1172.039,"endTime":1177.799,"body":"than just great apes my the here's what"},{"startTime":1175.559,"endTime":1179.159,"body":"happened uh on the campus that I work"},{"startTime":1177.799,"endTime":1181.799,"body":"they actually have bush babies and they"},{"startTime":1179.159,"endTime":1183.72,"body":"don't have any other um primates so I"},{"startTime":1181.799,"endTime":1185.52,"body":"went up and tried to run the primate"},{"startTime":1183.72,"endTime":1187.48,"body":"cognition test battery I had run this"},{"startTime":1185.52,"endTime":1188.679,"body":"with um the inculturated Apes and the"},{"startTime":1187.48,"endTime":1190.36,"body":"non- inculturated Apes and actually"},{"startTime":1188.679,"endTime":1192.44,"body":"showed that the Apes with language"},{"startTime":1190.36,"endTime":1195.039,"body":"training but also a lot more testing"},{"startTime":1192.44,"endTime":1198.84,"body":"familiarity did much better than"},{"startTime":1195.039,"endTime":1200.559,"body":"standard Zoo reared um Apes"},{"startTime":1198.84,"endTime":1202.4,"body":"so now I was going to look at that and"},{"startTime":1200.559,"endTime":1205.24,"body":"try and say oh well what do other not"},{"startTime":1202.4,"endTime":1207.0,"body":"what do other primate species do went in"},{"startTime":1205.24,"endTime":1208.559,"body":"sat down with the bush babies turned"},{"startTime":1207.0,"endTime":1210.12,"body":"over two cups hit a grape under one of"},{"startTime":1208.559,"endTime":1211.52,"body":"them and they were 50/50 picking where"},{"startTime":1210.12,"endTime":1214.32,"body":"the grape was even though they had just"},{"startTime":1211.52,"endTime":1215.4,"body":"seen me put the grape under the cup so I"},{"startTime":1214.32,"endTime":1217.44,"body":"was like all right well either they"},{"startTime":1215.4,"endTime":1221.039,"body":"don't have object permanence at all or"},{"startTime":1217.44,"endTime":1222.919,"body":"something else is going on so um I"},{"startTime":1221.039,"endTime":1225.159,"body":"decided to systematically test that not"},{"startTime":1222.919,"endTime":1226.679,"body":"just in bush babies but in a range of"},{"startTime":1225.159,"endTime":1229.039,"body":"primate species and just actually look"},{"startTime":1226.679,"endTime":1231.12,"body":"at where what do we see not just with"},{"startTime":1229.039,"endTime":1233.84,"body":"two cup spatial memory but three cups"},{"startTime":1231.12,"endTime":1236.72,"body":"and transposition and rotation and what"},{"startTime":1233.84,"endTime":1237.96,"body":"kind of stuff do we find and a colleague"},{"startTime":1236.72,"endTime":1239.919,"body":"of mine at the same time had said well"},{"startTime":1237.96,"endTime":1241.84,"body":"you know what I work with autistic kids"},{"startTime":1239.919,"endTime":1243.44,"body":"and I don't think a lot of the autistic"},{"startTime":1241.84,"endTime":1246.84,"body":"kids will actually be able to do this"},{"startTime":1243.44,"endTime":1248.6,"body":"task part partially because as you move"},{"startTime":1246.84,"endTime":1250.24,"body":"the testing platform forward there's a"},{"startTime":1248.6,"endTime":1251.799,"body":"sort of sensory disruption and that"},{"startTime":1250.24,"endTime":1253.32,"body":"might be something that actually is"},{"startTime":1251.799,"endTime":1255.679,"body":"changing the way the autistic kids are"},{"startTime":1253.32,"endTime":1257.48,"body":"perceiving it so right now we're running"},{"startTime":1255.679,"endTime":1259.28,"body":"that we're running the autistic kids"},{"startTime":1257.48,"endTime":1261.679,"body":"some neurotypical kids"},{"startTime":1259.28,"endTime":1265.48,"body":"and a range of primate species so we did"},{"startTime":1261.679,"endTime":1267.76,"body":"get bush babies all the way up till 3"},{"startTime":1265.48,"endTime":1270.32,"body":"cup like most of them would pass the two"},{"startTime":1267.76,"endTime":1272.36,"body":"cup eventually and but not to three cup"},{"startTime":1270.32,"endTime":1273.96,"body":"and now we're running mango bees and"},{"startTime":1272.36,"endTime":1277.039,"body":"several different species of macac some"},{"startTime":1273.96,"endTime":1280.0,"body":"lemurs and the bonobos as well are you"},{"startTime":1277.039,"endTime":1281.919,"body":"looking at things like side bias or oh"},{"startTime":1280.0,"endTime":1283.2,"body":"yeah it's all counterbalanced it's all"},{"startTime":1281.919,"endTime":1284.96,"body":"like we're going to take a look at"},{"startTime":1283.2,"endTime":1286.12,"body":"everything really and and we're also"},{"startTime":1284.96,"endTime":1288.64,"body":"looking at I mean some of the primate"},{"startTime":1286.12,"endTime":1290.0,"body":"species are a lot more you know scent"},{"startTime":1288.64,"endTime":1291.72,"body":"based than they are visually based bush"},{"startTime":1290.0,"endTime":1294.279,"body":"babies certainly who are nocturnal have"},{"startTime":1291.72,"endTime":1296.12,"body":"a lot more difficulty with um visual"},{"startTime":1294.279,"endTime":1298.2,"body":"tasks anyway so we're going to take a"},{"startTime":1296.12,"endTime":1299.36,"body":"look at all of that we're that's"},{"startTime":1298.2,"endTime":1301.64,"body":"probably going to be a relatively"},{"startTime":1299.36,"endTime":1303.96,"body":"long-term project as well to get enough"},{"startTime":1301.64,"endTime":1307.279,"body":"examples in each section of the sort of"},{"startTime":1303.96,"endTime":1308.96,"body":"primate strata oh that's great can you"},{"startTime":1307.279,"endTime":1311.4,"body":"put that into kind of a broader context"},{"startTime":1308.96,"endTime":1313.76,"body":"then this research well yeah so the"},{"startTime":1311.4,"endTime":1316.679,"body":"broader context for that is really"},{"startTime":1313.76,"endTime":1318.919,"body":"looking I here's what it really is I"},{"startTime":1316.679,"endTime":1322.159,"body":"think that in cognitive rese search"},{"startTime":1318.919,"endTime":1323.76,"body":"there's been this amazing focus on the"},{"startTime":1322.159,"endTime":1325.32,"body":"great apes and the great apes are"},{"startTime":1323.76,"endTime":1326.96,"body":"amazing and they're and they're"},{"startTime":1325.32,"endTime":1328.919,"body":"fantastic and they're certainly much"},{"startTime":1326.96,"endTime":1332.039,"body":"easier to work with than other species"},{"startTime":1328.919,"endTime":1333.919,"body":"because they're so much more like us um"},{"startTime":1332.039,"endTime":1335.679,"body":"but with my interest in Dolphins"},{"startTime":1333.919,"endTime":1339.76,"body":"continuing and I do have several dolphin"},{"startTime":1335.679,"endTime":1343.24,"body":"projects going on as well um this idea"},{"startTime":1339.76,"endTime":1346.159,"body":"of looking more broadly comparatively to"},{"startTime":1343.24,"endTime":1347.799,"body":"get a better idea of the environmental"},{"startTime":1346.159,"endTime":1350.6,"body":"pressures that create some of these"},{"startTime":1347.799,"endTime":1351.84,"body":"cognitive abilities ities or you know"},{"startTime":1350.6,"endTime":1354.2,"body":"it's entirely possible that they're"},{"startTime":1351.84,"endTime":1356.76,"body":"actually just sort of physically"},{"startTime":1354.2,"endTime":1359.159,"body":"important neurological rules or you know"},{"startTime":1356.76,"endTime":1361.799,"body":"there's a lot of different reasons that"},{"startTime":1359.159,"endTime":1362.84,"body":"we find analogous Evolution or even it"},{"startTime":1361.799,"endTime":1365.799,"body":"might be that there's some sort of"},{"startTime":1362.84,"endTime":1367.72,"body":"neural strata that is so basic that by"},{"startTime":1365.799,"endTime":1370.08,"body":"the time you get to higher complex"},{"startTime":1367.72,"endTime":1372.799,"body":"cognition it all looks the"},{"startTime":1370.08,"endTime":1374.64,"body":"same and to try and look at that through"},{"startTime":1372.799,"endTime":1376.72,"body":"primate species but other but non-"},{"startTime":1374.64,"endTime":1380.799,"body":"primate species as"},{"startTime":1376.72,"endTime":1382.799,"body":"well it's really interesting yeah so how"},{"startTime":1380.799,"endTime":1384.76,"body":"many primates are do you have an idea of"},{"startTime":1382.799,"endTime":1386.76,"body":"how many you want to have in this"},{"startTime":1384.76,"endTime":1389.6,"body":"project uh well I'd like to get as many"},{"startTime":1386.76,"endTime":1391.48,"body":"as I possibly can my you know um Dwayne"},{"startTime":1389.6,"endTime":1393.2,"body":"Rau did a task that was a very very"},{"startTime":1391.48,"endTime":1394.799,"body":"simple task and his whole goal is to"},{"startTime":1393.2,"endTime":1397.4,"body":"gather as many primates as he possibly"},{"startTime":1394.799,"endTime":1400.32,"body":"could you end up with over 500 primates"},{"startTime":1397.4,"endTime":1402.88,"body":"in like 18 different species so I don't"},{"startTime":1400.32,"endTime":1404.72,"body":"think I'm going to go quite that far I"},{"startTime":1402.88,"endTime":1406.4,"body":"would love to get I would love to get a"},{"startTime":1404.72,"endTime":1409.76,"body":"couple hundred actually to get sort of"},{"startTime":1406.4,"endTime":1412.2,"body":"10 primate species or 20 primate species"},{"startTime":1409.76,"endTime":1414.799,"body":"even with 10 in each one that would be"},{"startTime":1412.2,"endTime":1417.24,"body":"amazing well you know for getting a lot"},{"startTime":1414.799,"endTime":1419.4,"body":"of primate species inama is a good"},{"startTime":1417.24,"endTime":1421.88,"body":"resource we have the highest density of"},{"startTime":1419.4,"endTime":1424.52,"body":"primates in the world and diversity and"},{"startTime":1421.88,"endTime":1426.24,"body":"diversity it's not just the PRI we also"},{"startTime":1424.52,"endTime":1428.24,"body":"have the monkey part next door and they"},{"startTime":1426.24,"endTime":1430.76,"body":"have a lot of primates there I think"},{"startTime":1428.24,"endTime":1433.0,"body":"over 80 species here yeah that's amazing"},{"startTime":1430.76,"endTime":1434.76,"body":"that would be great yeah be cool so then"},{"startTime":1433.0,"endTime":1436.679,"body":"will you go and Link the ecologies of"},{"startTime":1434.76,"endTime":1438.679,"body":"all of these species to your I would"},{"startTime":1436.679,"endTime":1440.159,"body":"have to I mean the whole idea is to to"},{"startTime":1438.679,"endTime":1442.12,"body":"get enough so that we can actually do"},{"startTime":1440.159,"endTime":1444.799,"body":"some of these more fine grain studies"},{"startTime":1442.12,"endTime":1447.0,"body":"and look at well does color vision you"},{"startTime":1444.799,"endTime":1448.32,"body":"know change does their diet change their"},{"startTime":1447.0,"endTime":1450.52,"body":"ability does that you know all that sort"},{"startTime":1448.32,"endTime":1452.6,"body":"of it makes more sense I think we were"},{"startTime":1450.52,"endTime":1456.4,"body":"mentioning at lunch even that any sort"},{"startTime":1452.6,"endTime":1458.52,"body":"of um fruit eating primates would spend"},{"startTime":1456.4,"endTime":1461.88,"body":"would have more idea about spatial"},{"startTime":1458.52,"endTime":1463.44,"body":"memory than any sort of insector species"},{"startTime":1461.88,"endTime":1465.24,"body":"so that would explain why bush babies"},{"startTime":1463.44,"endTime":1467.44,"body":"aren't particularly good at it right not"},{"startTime":1465.24,"endTime":1468.799,"body":"just and but also you know just regular"},{"startTime":1467.44,"endTime":1471.36,"body":"Vision they're nocturnal they don't have"},{"startTime":1468.799,"endTime":1472.799,"body":"color vision they they don't have really"},{"startTime":1471.36,"endTime":1475.559,"body":"good Vision"},{"startTime":1472.799,"endTime":1477.08,"body":"period yeah actually in the E ecological"},{"startTime":1475.559,"endTime":1478.919,"body":"side of this this story I mean basically"},{"startTime":1477.08,"endTime":1482.08,"body":"we're talking about the ability to form"},{"startTime":1478.919,"endTime":1484.279,"body":"mental Maps or um spatial diffusion"},{"startTime":1482.08,"endTime":1486.12,"body":"basically within the environments and on"},{"startTime":1484.279,"endTime":1487.6,"body":"the ecological side there's a lot of"},{"startTime":1486.12,"endTime":1489.76,"body":"modeling that goes into that and there's"},{"startTime":1487.6,"endTime":1492.0,"body":"a lot of things that are kind of known"},{"startTime":1489.76,"endTime":1493.72,"body":"about at least theoretically the optimal"},{"startTime":1492.0,"endTime":1494.72,"body":"ways animals are supposed to distribute"},{"startTime":1493.72,"endTime":1496.399,"body":"themselves in their environment to"},{"startTime":1494.72,"endTime":1498.72,"body":"search for food and things and the"},{"startTime":1496.399,"endTime":1500.72,"body":"mental map being one of those um more"},{"startTime":1498.72,"endTime":1503.96,"body":"often studied in primates I suppose but"},{"startTime":1500.72,"endTime":1506.64,"body":"yeah but uh can you just give us a a the"},{"startTime":1503.96,"endTime":1509.039,"body":"short version of how how then your your"},{"startTime":1506.64,"endTime":1510.799,"body":"project scales up to that oh I don't"},{"startTime":1509.039,"endTime":1514.48,"body":"know that it does"},{"startTime":1510.799,"endTime":1516.32,"body":"no no I don't know I what I my intention"},{"startTime":1514.48,"endTime":1517.919,"body":"would simply to be to to start listing"},{"startTime":1516.32,"endTime":1520.96,"body":"off um you"},{"startTime":1517.919,"endTime":1522.64,"body":"know bi both biological and ecological"},{"startTime":1520.96,"endTime":1525.24,"body":"variables that we know about each of the"},{"startTime":1522.64,"endTime":1528.6,"body":"species the likelihood of me going"},{"startTime":1525.24,"endTime":1530.919,"body":"deeply into ecology is not very high but"},{"startTime":1528.6,"endTime":1532.48,"body":"I would say that I obviously would want"},{"startTime":1530.919,"endTime":1533.84,"body":"to bring in ecological variables because"},{"startTime":1532.48,"endTime":1535.2,"body":"I think they're clearly going to be"},{"startTime":1533.84,"endTime":1537.0,"body":"really"},{"startTime":1535.2,"endTime":1539.44,"body":"important sure especially if you're"},{"startTime":1537.0,"endTime":1541.12,"body":"talking about homologues Evolution"},{"startTime":1539.44,"endTime":1543.799,"body":"exactly well that's exactly right and"},{"startTime":1541.12,"endTime":1546.159,"body":"the other option is if we get some good"},{"startTime":1543.799,"endTime":1547.6,"body":"variables that we think are strongly"},{"startTime":1546.159,"endTime":1550.64,"body":"associated with this kind of spatial"},{"startTime":1547.6,"endTime":1552.6,"body":"memory is to you know create a a"},{"startTime":1550.64,"endTime":1553.96,"body":"computer model and run it and actually"},{"startTime":1552.6,"endTime":1556.159,"body":"look at the from The evolutionary"},{"startTime":1553.96,"endTime":1557.44,"body":"psychology perspective and are you just"},{"startTime":1556.159,"endTime":1559.72,"body":"talking now about primates or are you"},{"startTime":1557.44,"endTime":1562.08,"body":"also talking about species like can you"},{"startTime":1559.72,"endTime":1564.279,"body":"do like canines or I would love to do"},{"startTime":1562.08,"endTime":1566.64,"body":"other species the current plan is well"},{"startTime":1564.279,"endTime":1569.2,"body":"Dolphins I definitely have on the in the"},{"startTime":1566.64,"endTime":1572.44,"body":"plan um I would love to do lots of other"},{"startTime":1569.2,"endTime":1575.399,"body":"species actually I have a proposal in at"},{"startTime":1572.44,"endTime":1578.2,"body":"the Mobile Zoo to do some big cat work"},{"startTime":1575.399,"endTime":1580.399,"body":"oh wow and cuz they have seven tigers"},{"startTime":1578.2,"endTime":1583.2,"body":"and I'm just there's just nothing out"},{"startTime":1580.399,"endTime":1585.24,"body":"there about big cat cognition at any of"},{"startTime":1583.2,"endTime":1587.279,"body":"any kind and the difficulty for us has"},{"startTime":1585.24,"endTime":1588.72,"body":"actually been creating the apparatus"},{"startTime":1587.279,"endTime":1591.12,"body":"that was going to allow us to work and"},{"startTime":1588.72,"endTime":1593.96,"body":"to allow us to allow us to work safely"},{"startTime":1591.12,"endTime":1595.64,"body":"but allow it to them to actually do what"},{"startTime":1593.96,"endTime":1596.64,"body":"they need to do that's right right I I"},{"startTime":1595.64,"endTime":1598.08,"body":"was going to ask you about that because"},{"startTime":1596.64,"endTime":1599.399,"body":"now you have worked with a number of"},{"startTime":1598.08,"endTime":1602.2,"body":"different species the Dolphins you've"},{"startTime":1599.399,"endTime":1603.72,"body":"got the Apes and things so logistically"},{"startTime":1602.2,"endTime":1606.279,"body":"how has that been and then can you"},{"startTime":1603.72,"endTime":1609.399,"body":"compare and contrasted oh from great"},{"startTime":1606.279,"endTime":1611.6,"body":"apes to dolphins in general you know it"},{"startTime":1609.399,"endTime":1613.52,"body":"actually is logistically great apes are"},{"startTime":1611.6,"endTime":1616.52,"body":"by far the easiest species to work with"},{"startTime":1613.52,"endTime":1618.559,"body":"like first of all they have hands they"},{"startTime":1616.52,"endTime":1621.12,"body":"have thumbs they have the same kind of"},{"startTime":1618.559,"endTime":1623.76,"body":"vision processing that we have um we've"},{"startTime":1621.12,"endTime":1625.799,"body":"worked out in zoos and whatnot how to"},{"startTime":1623.76,"endTime":1627.52,"body":"interact with them safely in many many"},{"startTime":1625.799,"endTime":1629.24,"body":"ways and I mean just working with them"},{"startTime":1627.52,"endTime":1630.76,"body":"through chain link is super easy and all"},{"startTime":1629.24,"endTime":1632.6,"body":"they have to do is touch something and"},{"startTime":1630.76,"endTime":1634.399,"body":"and we can give it all primate species"},{"startTime":1632.6,"endTime":1636.399,"body":"actually you know have that ability and"},{"startTime":1634.399,"endTime":1638.72,"body":"your apparatus typically involve these"},{"startTime":1636.399,"endTime":1641.48,"body":"shelves that kind of R back and forth"},{"startTime":1638.72,"endTime":1643.6,"body":"It's like a tray table that is movable"},{"startTime":1641.48,"endTime":1645.2,"body":"and you just push it forward and so you"},{"startTime":1643.6,"endTime":1647.84,"body":"can manipulate things and then push it"},{"startTime":1645.2,"endTime":1649.84,"body":"forward so then they have the choice and"},{"startTime":1647.84,"endTime":1651.799,"body":"theide idea had been to create this"},{"startTime":1649.84,"endTime":1653.52,"body":"appar similar kind of apparatus for"},{"startTime":1651.799,"endTime":1655.88,"body":"dolphins that would hook onto the side"},{"startTime":1653.52,"endTime":1657.76,"body":"of the pools and then you could"},{"startTime":1655.88,"endTime":1659.159,"body":"manipulate and then you could you there"},{"startTime":1657.76,"endTime":1662.039,"body":"would be some sort of signal that you"},{"startTime":1659.159,"endTime":1664.76,"body":"would unlock them and then they could"},{"startTime":1662.039,"endTime":1667.519,"body":"but you don't want them to have to point"},{"startTime":1664.76,"endTime":1668.559,"body":"so the idea is there's this you know"},{"startTime":1667.519,"endTime":1671.36,"body":"question of whether they can"},{"startTime":1668.559,"endTime":1674.0,"body":"declaratively indicate anything even"},{"startTime":1671.36,"endTime":1676.64,"body":"primate species let alone big cats or"},{"startTime":1674.0,"endTime":1678.88,"body":"you know Dolphins um so you want some"},{"startTime":1676.64,"endTime":1680.12,"body":"way for them to manipulate the cups"},{"startTime":1678.88,"endTime":1682.36,"body":"themselves and in this case we were"},{"startTime":1680.12,"endTime":1685.039,"body":"talking about actually um tying a string"},{"startTime":1682.36,"endTime":1686.6,"body":"to a cup which would then tip over and"},{"startTime":1685.039,"endTime":1688.36,"body":"for dolphins it's really easy it just"},{"startTime":1686.6,"endTime":1691.12,"body":"tips over far enough that a fish slides"},{"startTime":1688.36,"endTime":1692.96,"body":"into the pool okay for big cats it was"},{"startTime":1691.12,"endTime":1695.2,"body":"becoming much more problematic about how"},{"startTime":1692.96,"endTime":1698.679,"body":"to get it through their chain link to"},{"startTime":1695.2,"endTime":1701.519,"body":"them and without having a lot of rotting"},{"startTime":1698.679,"endTime":1703.399,"body":"spoiling meat"},{"startTime":1701.519,"endTime":1706.72,"body":"somewhere to"},{"startTime":1703.399,"endTime":1709.44,"body":"avoid yeah the zoo guests might not be"},{"startTime":1706.72,"endTime":1711.12,"body":"too appreciative of that exactly"},{"startTime":1709.44,"endTime":1713.72,"body":"yeah so one thing that we love here in"},{"startTime":1711.12,"endTime":1715.919,"body":"Japan and at PRI is technology like"},{"startTime":1713.72,"endTime":1717.48,"body":"using touch panels and absolutely that"},{"startTime":1715.919,"endTime":1719.96,"body":"kind of thing do you think that has any"},{"startTime":1717.48,"endTime":1723.24,"body":"place in this type of um like especially"},{"startTime":1719.96,"endTime":1725.519,"body":"with new species like the cats the cats"},{"startTime":1723.24,"endTime":1728.72,"body":"so a friend of mine at Mobile Zoo"},{"startTime":1725.519,"endTime":1731.96,"body":"actually has the Bears the um black"},{"startTime":1728.72,"endTime":1737.279,"body":"bears are are touchscreen trained okay"},{"startTime":1731.96,"endTime":1742.64,"body":"um and the problem is that the one bear"},{"startTime":1737.279,"endTime":1745.48,"body":"who uses his paw is very"},{"startTime":1742.64,"endTime":1746.919,"body":"destructive and it's so clumsy that to"},{"startTime":1745.48,"endTime":1748.88,"body":"me it seems like it's just not the"},{"startTime":1746.919,"endTime":1753.0,"body":"optimal use and so the rest of them are"},{"startTime":1748.88,"endTime":1754.72,"body":"nose touchscreen users um which seems"},{"startTime":1753.0,"endTime":1756.44,"body":"more likely but with big cats they have"},{"startTime":1754.72,"endTime":1758.76,"body":"the big flat nose so you don't really"},{"startTime":1756.44,"endTime":1761.32,"body":"have as many options that's so are these"},{"startTime":1758.76,"endTime":1764.159,"body":"Bears all kept in the same enclosure"},{"startTime":1761.32,"endTime":1767.12,"body":"yeah yeah but she actually has separate"},{"startTime":1764.159,"endTime":1769.24,"body":"so they have three rooms in the in a a"},{"startTime":1767.12,"endTime":1770.679,"body":"shed basic basally so she can actually"},{"startTime":1769.24,"endTime":1772.84,"body":"separate them out and they're trained to"},{"startTime":1770.679,"endTime":1773.76,"body":"to separate out to come your tasks great"},{"startTime":1772.84,"endTime":1774.84,"body":"it's really interesting though I was"},{"startTime":1773.76,"endTime":1776.559,"body":"just thinking about this cultural"},{"startTime":1774.84,"endTime":1778.36,"body":"transmission of behavior social learning"},{"startTime":1776.559,"endTime":1780.2,"body":"kind of thing so how do you get the one"},{"startTime":1778.36,"endTime":1781.96,"body":"bear that's that's a paw Pusher and then"},{"startTime":1780.2,"endTime":1784.2,"body":"these the rest of the Bears are all be"},{"startTime":1781.96,"endTime":1786.519,"body":"amazing so is that no idea if they do"},{"startTime":1784.2,"endTime":1788.32,"body":"any sort of imitative social is that is"},{"startTime":1786.519,"endTime":1790.08,"body":"the Paw Pusher like a peripheral kind of"},{"startTime":1788.32,"endTime":1791.76,"body":"individual that has no influence in the"},{"startTime":1790.08,"endTime":1794.159,"body":"transmission of the behavior very good"},{"startTime":1791.76,"endTime":1797.76,"body":"question I don't know we're all excited"},{"startTime":1794.159,"endTime":1800.559,"body":"now here about the Microsoft Connect"},{"startTime":1797.76,"endTime":1802.88,"body":"it's this camera that you put you attach"},{"startTime":1800.559,"endTime":1805.72,"body":"to your computer and it can paint a 3D"},{"startTime":1802.88,"endTime":1807.24,"body":"image of you yes we could program for"},{"startTime":1805.72,"endTime":1809.72,"body":"that they don't even need to touch the"},{"startTime":1807.24,"endTime":1812.039,"body":"panel they just oriented and that's"},{"startTime":1809.72,"endTime":1814.72,"body":"actually My Hope too eventually we were"},{"startTime":1812.039,"endTime":1816.799,"body":"we were looking at a system it's not as"},{"startTime":1814.72,"endTime":1818.24,"body":"cool as the connect system actually it's"},{"startTime":1816.799,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"this is the connect system is the next"},{"startTime":1818.24,"endTime":1823.2,"body":"step up but um hoping to put together"},{"startTime":1821.0,"endTime":1825.44,"body":"another dolphin keyboard project that"},{"startTime":1823.2,"endTime":1827.48,"body":"would then part of the problem with"},{"startTime":1825.44,"endTime":1829.64,"body":"Dolphin keyboard projects is getting the"},{"startTime":1827.48,"endTime":1831.12,"body":"information underwater but also having"},{"startTime":1829.64,"endTime":1832.84,"body":"some sort of interactive system where"},{"startTime":1831.12,"endTime":1834.48,"body":"humans can use it at the same time as"},{"startTime":1832.84,"endTime":1836.559,"body":"dolphins are using it and humans don't"},{"startTime":1834.48,"endTime":1838.24,"body":"have to be humans in the water is just"},{"startTime":1836.559,"endTime":1840.96,"body":"super clumsy and obviously Dolphins"},{"startTime":1838.24,"endTime":1842.679,"body":"outside of the water are impossible so"},{"startTime":1840.96,"endTime":1843.76,"body":"um to get some sort of interactive"},{"startTime":1842.679,"endTime":1845.799,"body":"system going through a window or"},{"startTime":1843.76,"endTime":1847.24,"body":"something like that and that was helpful"},{"startTime":1845.799,"endTime":1848.64,"body":"the other thing that um actually I've"},{"startTime":1847.24,"endTime":1852.399,"body":"been looking at a lot is the use of"},{"startTime":1848.64,"endTime":1854.279,"body":"iPads with the um apes and particularly"},{"startTime":1852.399,"endTime":1857.159,"body":"the keyboard um using"},{"startTime":1854.279,"endTime":1859.639,"body":"Apes where a lot of people go actually"},{"startTime":1857.159,"endTime":1862.039,"body":"still go in with that but or or in fact"},{"startTime":1859.639,"endTime":1864.48,"body":"to connect it to a wall and the idea for"},{"startTime":1862.039,"endTime":1865.96,"body":"me with that was one of the limitations"},{"startTime":1864.48,"endTime":1867.559,"body":"with the keyboard systems the"},{"startTime":1865.96,"endTime":1869.919,"body":"computerized keyboard systems was that"},{"startTime":1867.559,"endTime":1872.0,"body":"when you would when someone would come"},{"startTime":1869.919,"endTime":1874.639,"body":"to the keyboard and enter in Keys you"},{"startTime":1872.0,"endTime":1876.799,"body":"had no idea who that person was so they"},{"startTime":1874.639,"endTime":1878.679,"body":"did a lot of like attempts to like oh"},{"startTime":1876.799,"endTime":1880.279,"body":"you have to put in your name and then"},{"startTime":1878.679,"endTime":1881.519,"body":"you have to and that just take again"},{"startTime":1880.279,"endTime":1882.96,"body":"takes away the spontaneity and there's"},{"startTime":1881.519,"endTime":1886.639,"body":"no communicative system going on there"},{"startTime":1882.96,"endTime":1889.08,"body":"at all so we had looked at actually with"},{"startTime":1886.639,"endTime":1890.88,"body":"the new with the iPad tues came out with"},{"startTime":1889.08,"endTime":1894.039,"body":"camera in them that it would actually"},{"startTime":1890.88,"endTime":1896.6,"body":"just snap photos or even take small"},{"startTime":1894.039,"endTime":1898.32,"body":"video clips just at periods of time"},{"startTime":1896.6,"endTime":1900.32,"body":"whenever some whenever an individual"},{"startTime":1898.32,"endTime":1903.279,"body":"would start using it again"},{"startTime":1900.32,"endTime":1904.799,"body":"sure does it work out so well you have"},{"startTime":1903.279,"endTime":1906.399,"body":"to kind of go back at the data and look"},{"startTime":1904.799,"endTime":1908.36,"body":"at a bunch of pictures right that's"},{"startTime":1906.399,"endTime":1909.799,"body":"right that's right who was using it at"},{"startTime":1908.36,"endTime":1911.6,"body":"this moment that's right and then you"},{"startTime":1909.799,"endTime":1913.12,"body":"have to make sure that it's it's bright"},{"startTime":1911.6,"endTime":1914.919,"body":"enough out that you can actually tell"},{"startTime":1913.12,"endTime":1917.32,"body":"who it is especially with bovos if you"},{"startTime":1914.919,"endTime":1918.399,"body":"have this big big black blob it just"},{"startTime":1917.32,"endTime":1921.039,"body":"doesn't work"},{"startTime":1918.399,"endTime":1924.0,"body":"as well as one would hope um what works"},{"startTime":1921.039,"endTime":1927.6,"body":"the best actually is that group in in um"},{"startTime":1924.0,"endTime":1930.639,"body":"France that has the yeah the chips they"},{"startTime":1927.6,"endTime":1932.399,"body":"have the chips in there and uh I was"},{"startTime":1930.639,"endTime":1934.32,"body":"talking about that eventually for at"},{"startTime":1932.399,"endTime":1936.039,"body":"least for the Apes but I was hoping"},{"startTime":1934.32,"endTime":1937.36,"body":"actually to create this iPad system that"},{"startTime":1936.039,"endTime":1939.0,"body":"then be used again with autistic"},{"startTime":1937.36,"endTime":1941.279,"body":"children and with um apes and we could"},{"startTime":1939.0,"endTime":1943.76,"body":"actually see language development stuff"},{"startTime":1941.279,"endTime":1946.08,"body":"and compare the the kids and the Apes"},{"startTime":1943.76,"endTime":1947.679,"body":"that's very far in the future for me but"},{"startTime":1946.08,"endTime":1949.32,"body":"the kids could wear bracelets or you"},{"startTime":1947.679,"endTime":1951.0,"body":"know have pins or whatever that would do"},{"startTime":1949.32,"endTime":1952.159,"body":"the same kind of identification that's"},{"startTime":1951.0,"endTime":1954.48,"body":"quite"},{"startTime":1952.159,"endTime":1956.519,"body":"cool wow sounds like a lot of"},{"startTime":1954.48,"endTime":1958.679,"body":"interesting stuff interesting stuff in"},{"startTime":1956.519,"endTime":1960.519,"body":"the future let's hope I can get funding"},{"startTime":1958.679,"endTime":1962.399,"body":"and"},{"startTime":1960.519,"endTime":1965.039,"body":"access all right well this has been a"},{"startTime":1962.399,"endTime":1966.919,"body":"great podcast I think we should wrap up"},{"startTime":1965.039,"endTime":1969.679,"body":"thanks for joining us and enjoy the rest"},{"startTime":1966.919,"endTime":1973.36,"body":"of your time in Japan yeah we'll do all"},{"startTime":1969.679,"endTime":1973.36,"body":"right thanks thanks"}]}