{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.32,"endTime":3.159,"body":"welcome to the primate cast I'm your"},{"startTime":1.8,"endTime":6.04,"body":"host Chris Martin and I'm Andrew"},{"startTime":3.159,"endTime":8.44,"body":"Macintosh now Andrew our last podcast"},{"startTime":6.04,"endTime":9.84,"body":"was with fron dwall and in case our"},{"startTime":8.44,"endTime":12.28,"body":"listeners missed out on that one please"},{"startTime":9.84,"endTime":13.92,"body":"be sure and check it out yeah and also"},{"startTime":12.28,"endTime":16.44,"body":"don't miss out on the chance to see the"},{"startTime":13.92,"endTime":19.119,"body":"video of Chris introducing the telenoid"},{"startTime":16.44,"endTime":20.96,"body":"to Dr France dwall well on YouTube right"},{"startTime":19.119,"endTime":22.32,"body":"that was from when we visited a robotics"},{"startTime":20.96,"endTime":23.56,"body":"laboratory with him it was really a"},{"startTime":22.32,"endTime":26.0,"body":"shame that we didn't talk about that"},{"startTime":23.56,"endTime":27.599,"body":"during the podcast because uh we had a"},{"startTime":26.0,"endTime":28.8,"body":"really great time there and I'm sure a"},{"startTime":27.599,"endTime":30.4,"body":"lot of interesting stories could have"},{"startTime":28.8,"endTime":32.16,"body":"come out of that so we'll be sure to get"},{"startTime":30.4,"endTime":33.96,"body":"we'll be sure to get friends on that"},{"startTime":32.16,"endTime":35.719,"body":"topic in the next time we interview him"},{"startTime":33.96,"endTime":37.64,"body":"absolutely So today we're going to"},{"startTime":35.719,"endTime":40.2,"body":"introduce the second of our series of"},{"startTime":37.64,"endTime":41.719,"body":"five podcast from the IAS conference and"},{"startTime":40.2,"endTime":44.559,"body":"today we're going to be joined by Dr"},{"startTime":41.719,"endTime":46.28,"body":"Bill mcru now bill is Meritus professor"},{"startTime":44.559,"endTime":48.039,"body":"of evolutionary primatology in the"},{"startTime":46.28,"endTime":49.48,"body":"division of biological anthropology in"},{"startTime":48.039,"endTime":50.92,"body":"the department of archaeology and"},{"startTime":49.48,"endTime":52.84,"body":"anthropology at the University of"},{"startTime":50.92,"endTime":54.52,"body":"Cambridge now he's had a long and"},{"startTime":52.84,"endTime":56.84,"body":"illustrous career in the field of"},{"startTime":54.52,"endTime":59.16,"body":"primatology uh and as a self-proclaimed"},{"startTime":56.84,"endTime":61.92,"body":"chimp Chaser and he's also a world"},{"startTime":59.16,"endTime":64.4,"body":"expert on chimp chimpanzee material"},{"startTime":61.92,"endTime":66.28,"body":"culture now he's currently involved in a"},{"startTime":64.4,"endTime":67.68,"body":"number of projects but these include the"},{"startTime":66.28,"endTime":70.479,"body":"development of the field of cultural"},{"startTime":67.68,"endTime":72.439,"body":"primatology and uh interestingly primate"},{"startTime":70.479,"endTime":74.159,"body":"archaeology right and that's a project"},{"startTime":72.439,"endTime":77.2,"body":"that's uh being taken place in West"},{"startTime":74.159,"endTime":78.96,"body":"Africa with uh some students that do a"},{"startTime":77.2,"endTime":80.96,"body":"lot of work here at PRI like Susanna"},{"startTime":78.96,"endTime":82.24,"body":"carvalo right you have a fairly"},{"startTime":80.96,"endTime":84.479,"body":"long-term collaboration going with"},{"startTime":82.24,"endTime":86.52,"body":"Professor Manawa at bosu in West Africa"},{"startTime":84.479,"endTime":88.119,"body":"that's right so we asked him about his"},{"startTime":86.52,"endTime":89.28,"body":"interactions with Japanese primatology"},{"startTime":88.119,"endTime":91.2,"body":"and that's where we're going to start"},{"startTime":89.28,"endTime":94.28,"body":"the interview we so often do so here's"},{"startTime":91.2,"endTime":97.92,"body":"Dr mcru my history with Japanese"},{"startTime":94.28,"endTime":99.56,"body":"primatology goes back almost 40 years I"},{"startTime":97.92,"endTime":103.04,"body":"came here first in"},{"startTime":99.56,"endTime":105.92,"body":"74 hosted by Toshi Sada"},{"startTime":103.04,"endTime":108.6,"body":"Nishida and have come back periodically"},{"startTime":105.92,"endTime":110.36,"body":"over the years more recently in in"},{"startTime":108.6,"endTime":114.56,"body":"connection with"},{"startTime":110.36,"endTime":118.039,"body":"PRI but of course as someone who's been"},{"startTime":114.56,"endTime":121.64,"body":"a chimpanzee chaser for 40 years and has"},{"startTime":118.039,"endTime":124.68,"body":"gone for breadth rather than depth that"},{"startTime":121.64,"endTime":126.479,"body":"is rather than commit myself to a single"},{"startTime":124.68,"endTime":130.759,"body":"field site"},{"startTime":126.479,"endTime":133.56,"body":"instead flitted around from west to east"},{"startTime":130.759,"endTime":136.36,"body":"to Central Africa I've run into Japanese"},{"startTime":133.56,"endTime":137.8,"body":"primatologist in all those places so"},{"startTime":136.36,"endTime":141.04,"body":"fair enough I think there's been an"},{"startTime":137.8,"endTime":142.92,"body":"ongoing and I hope mutually advantageous"},{"startTime":141.04,"endTime":145.28,"body":"relationship with Japanese"},{"startTime":142.92,"endTime":146.36,"body":"primatology so for you how has that was"},{"startTime":145.28,"endTime":148.879,"body":"something you mentioned in your talk"},{"startTime":146.36,"endTime":151.8,"body":"here at the IAS as well but so for you"},{"startTime":148.879,"endTime":153.76,"body":"how does that um compare then so you"},{"startTime":151.8,"endTime":155.879,"body":"talk about breadth versus depth you what"},{"startTime":153.76,"endTime":158.64,"body":"has that allowed you to do for"},{"startTime":155.879,"endTime":161.12,"body":"example I think it's allowed me to be a"},{"startTime":158.64,"endTime":164.28,"body":"little more self-indulgent than a person"},{"startTime":161.12,"endTime":166.4,"body":"who is responsible for the ongoing uh"},{"startTime":164.28,"endTime":169.2,"body":"commitments that a a long-term feel side"},{"startTime":166.4,"endTime":171.84,"body":"and tales I have immense admiration for"},{"startTime":169.2,"endTime":175.12,"body":"people who take on a commitment and then"},{"startTime":171.84,"endTime":178.36,"body":"stick to it for in some cases decades I"},{"startTime":175.12,"endTime":182.76,"body":"mean ini it comes to mind as the person"},{"startTime":178.36,"endTime":185.2,"body":"who not only started Mahal back in ' 65"},{"startTime":182.76,"endTime":187.44,"body":"but who went out not every year but"},{"startTime":185.2,"endTime":190.519,"body":"almost every year until you know very"},{"startTime":187.44,"endTime":194.08,"body":"very recently and uh that that's"},{"startTime":190.519,"endTime":196.64,"body":"wonderful but what I wanted to do was to"},{"startTime":194.08,"endTime":198.28,"body":"take particular questions to particular"},{"startTime":196.64,"endTime":202.04,"body":"places where they could best be answered"},{"startTime":198.28,"endTime":204.44,"body":"at least that was my hope so when so"},{"startTime":202.04,"endTime":206.04,"body":"you've been to so many field sites on so"},{"startTime":204.44,"endTime":207.44,"body":"many different times and I'm wondering"},{"startTime":206.04,"endTime":209.0,"body":"when you when you typically go to a"},{"startTime":207.44,"endTime":210.319,"body":"field site do you go there with a"},{"startTime":209.0,"endTime":212.28,"body":"question in mind"},{"startTime":210.319,"endTime":214.2,"body":"and and and kind of think about that"},{"startTime":212.28,"endTime":215.799,"body":"while you watch The Chimps or do you"},{"startTime":214.2,"endTime":217.48,"body":"kind of watch them and let the questions"},{"startTime":215.799,"endTime":219.64,"body":"come to you or how what's your method"},{"startTime":217.48,"endTime":222.48,"body":"for doing field work as someone that"},{"startTime":219.64,"endTime":225.12,"body":"goes for bread I think that's changed"},{"startTime":222.48,"endTime":230.0,"body":"over the years um when we started the"},{"startTime":225.12,"endTime":232.36,"body":"asteris site in uh the mid '70s we had"},{"startTime":230.0,"endTime":234.68,"body":"definite ideas about what it would be"},{"startTime":232.36,"endTime":236.68,"body":"like to work with a svan population of"},{"startTime":234.68,"endTime":239.879,"body":"chimpanzees that is it was very"},{"startTime":236.68,"endTime":241.72,"body":"environmentally ecologically driven on"},{"startTime":239.879,"endTime":244.76,"body":"the other hand when I was in Tanzania"},{"startTime":241.72,"endTime":247.28,"body":"this past summer I was interested in in"},{"startTime":244.76,"endTime":248.28,"body":"some very specific aspects of of"},{"startTime":247.28,"endTime":250.84,"body":"pounding"},{"startTime":248.28,"endTime":253.72,"body":"technology so I I think it's horses for"},{"startTime":250.84,"endTime":255.12,"body":"courses you know it depends on where you"},{"startTime":253.72,"endTime":256.28,"body":"are at the stage of your career and"},{"startTime":255.12,"endTime":257.919,"body":"where you are at the stage of your"},{"startTime":256.28,"endTime":260.199,"body":"intellectual development and what the"},{"startTime":257.919,"endTime":262.88,"body":"opportunities are I shamelessly"},{"startTime":260.199,"endTime":264.639,"body":"parasitize my former students I I'll be"},{"startTime":262.88,"endTime":266.919,"body":"straightforward in that if if they found"},{"startTime":264.639,"endTime":268.88,"body":"interesting field sites then I'm"},{"startTime":266.919,"endTime":271.0,"body":"probably likely to turn up there but"},{"startTime":268.88,"endTime":272.8,"body":"you've been able in in that respect to"},{"startTime":271.0,"endTime":274.28,"body":"have some really important insights and"},{"startTime":272.8,"endTime":276.639,"body":"synthesize a lot of data that have been"},{"startTime":274.28,"endTime":279.88,"body":"collected from those various sites I"},{"startTime":276.639,"endTime":282.68,"body":"hope so u i time will tell but I think"},{"startTime":279.88,"endTime":285.039,"body":"there is well let's put it this way I"},{"startTime":282.68,"endTime":286.8,"body":"think there is a necessity for there to"},{"startTime":285.039,"endTime":289.36,"body":"be people who do the in-depth studies"},{"startTime":286.8,"endTime":291.52,"body":"and I think there's also a utility value"},{"startTime":289.36,"endTime":293.36,"body":"to people who stand back and do the"},{"startTime":291.52,"endTime":295.919,"body":"bread stuff and maybe there's a balance"},{"startTime":293.36,"endTime":297.24,"body":"there balance polymorphism or something"},{"startTime":295.919,"endTime":298.96,"body":"so one of the things that may be most"},{"startTime":297.24,"endTime":300.68,"body":"relevant to that especially in current"},{"startTime":298.96,"endTime":304.32,"body":"conversations with in primatology is the"},{"startTime":300.68,"endTime":305.6,"body":"idea of culture um particularly across"},{"startTime":304.32,"endTime":308.44,"body":"chimpanzee populations where it's"},{"startTime":305.6,"endTime":310.24,"body":"probably most talked about but can you"},{"startTime":308.44,"endTime":312.88,"body":"maybe I just want to start by asking you"},{"startTime":310.24,"endTime":316.08,"body":"what is culture in the context of a a"},{"startTime":312.88,"endTime":319.52,"body":"non-human primate I'll say straight way"},{"startTime":316.08,"endTime":321.96,"body":"that I think there is no consensual"},{"startTime":319.52,"endTime":325.199,"body":"definition and probably never will be"},{"startTime":321.96,"endTime":328.0,"body":"anymore than there ever was in"},{"startTime":325.199,"endTime":330.16,"body":"sociocultural anthropology for Homo"},{"startTime":328.0,"endTime":332.24,"body":"sapiens and I think that's probably a"},{"startTime":330.16,"endTime":334.4,"body":"good thing because we may well need"},{"startTime":332.24,"endTime":336.84,"body":"different definitions for culture for"},{"startTime":334.4,"endTime":337.84,"body":"different problems if I'm tackling"},{"startTime":336.84,"endTime":339.919,"body":"culture"},{"startTime":337.84,"endTime":342.72,"body":"conceptually I may need a different"},{"startTime":339.919,"endTime":345.08,"body":"definition than if I'm tackling it uh"},{"startTime":342.72,"endTime":347.52,"body":"empirically where an operational"},{"startTime":345.08,"endTime":348.72,"body":"definition is important but I think"},{"startTime":347.52,"endTime":350.68,"body":"there are certain elements that are"},{"startTime":348.72,"endTime":353.039,"body":"going to crop up in anybody's definition"},{"startTime":350.68,"endTime":355.84,"body":"of culture obviously social learning as"},{"startTime":353.039,"endTime":360.039,"body":"opposed to individual learning some"},{"startTime":355.84,"endTime":361.08,"body":"extent of persistence or endurance Maybe"},{"startTime":360.039,"endTime":364.68,"body":"over"},{"startTime":361.08,"endTime":367.96,"body":"Generations um some aspect of"},{"startTime":364.68,"endTime":369.28,"body":"collectivity uh and so on and"},{"startTime":367.96,"endTime":372.919,"body":"standardization I mean there are a"},{"startTime":369.28,"endTime":375.28,"body":"number of of of themes that are in in"},{"startTime":372.919,"endTime":377.96,"body":"everybody's definition of"},{"startTime":375.28,"endTime":380.28,"body":"culture what I've always said about uh"},{"startTime":377.96,"endTime":382.8,"body":"definitions of culture is I don't care"},{"startTime":380.28,"endTime":385.96,"body":"how you define it just make it precise"},{"startTime":382.8,"endTime":389.28,"body":"make it operational make it you know"},{"startTime":385.96,"endTime":389.28,"body":"make it feasible"},{"startTime":390.08,"endTime":395.52,"body":"and I want to ask you a little bit about"},{"startTime":392.28,"endTime":398.36,"body":"material culture and also the recent"},{"startTime":395.52,"endTime":400.0,"body":"Trend that you're uh involved in"},{"startTime":398.36,"endTime":402.52,"body":"especially with some of your students to"},{"startTime":400.0,"endTime":403.96,"body":"combine disciplines between primatology"},{"startTime":402.52,"endTime":407.199,"body":"and"},{"startTime":403.96,"endTime":409.199,"body":"archaeology well I think I have to say"},{"startTime":407.199,"endTime":413.12,"body":"that two of the most important moves in"},{"startTime":409.199,"endTime":416.12,"body":"my career were forced upon me one was to"},{"startTime":413.12,"endTime":419.96,"body":"to to turn to culture as an explanatory"},{"startTime":416.12,"endTime":421.879,"body":"uh Force when the Natural Science"},{"startTime":419.96,"endTime":424.919,"body":"tools that I had given in my training as"},{"startTime":421.879,"endTime":427.08,"body":"a zoologist did not suffice to explain"},{"startTime":424.919,"endTime":428.879,"body":"what the chimpanzees were showing us so"},{"startTime":427.08,"endTime":433.8,"body":"in that sense I turned to the social"},{"startTime":428.879,"endTime":435.919,"body":"sciences out of desperation similarly um"},{"startTime":433.8,"endTime":438.599,"body":"when I realized the extent of which we"},{"startTime":435.919,"endTime":441.84,"body":"are trapped in the present with the"},{"startTime":438.599,"endTime":445.08,"body":"field work that we can do now there was"},{"startTime":441.84,"endTime":447.28,"body":"this this thought that can we actually"},{"startTime":445.08,"endTime":451.12,"body":"take what we are seeing today back into"},{"startTime":447.28,"endTime":453.56,"body":"the past by parasitti in archaeology and"},{"startTime":451.12,"endTime":455.24,"body":"apply their methods so that we can have"},{"startTime":453.56,"endTime":457.039,"body":"some idea about the time depth of what"},{"startTime":455.24,"endTime":459.24,"body":"we're seeing at the present I we don't"},{"startTime":457.039,"endTime":462.24,"body":"know whether chimpum Z's were cracking"},{"startTime":459.24,"endTime":464.8,"body":"nuts at bosu for the last 400 years for"},{"startTime":462.24,"endTime":467.159,"body":"the last 400,000 years or for the last 4"},{"startTime":464.8,"endTime":469.24,"body":"million years at the moment and the only"},{"startTime":467.159,"endTime":471.36,"body":"way we're going to find out is to do"},{"startTime":469.24,"endTime":473.8,"body":"archaeology how did that idea originally"},{"startTime":471.36,"endTime":475.759,"body":"come up I mean it seems Seems rather"},{"startTime":473.8,"endTime":479.84,"body":"intuitive and a nice logical extension"},{"startTime":475.759,"endTime":481.52,"body":"but at the same time it's very recent"},{"startTime":479.84,"endTime":483.8,"body":"I I I'm not going to take too much"},{"startTime":481.52,"endTime":487.159,"body":"credit because I think"},{"startTime":483.8,"endTime":491.8,"body":"um Julio mcer showed that it could be"},{"startTime":487.159,"endTime":496.52,"body":"done in Thai whatever it was 5 years ago"},{"startTime":491.8,"endTime":498.8,"body":"seven years ago um a couple of people"},{"startTime":496.52,"endTime":501.52,"body":"had been trained as archaeologist and"},{"startTime":498.8,"endTime":504.08,"body":"tried to tackle chimpanzees in the"},{"startTime":501.52,"endTime":508.159,"body":"field from an archaeological point of"},{"startTime":504.08,"endTime":510.08,"body":"view like jeene SE uh even Frederick"},{"startTime":508.159,"endTime":512.479,"body":"Julian but"},{"startTime":510.08,"endTime":515.479,"body":"I think I needed to have"},{"startTime":512.479,"endTime":517.56,"body":"collaborators who were genuinely"},{"startTime":515.479,"endTime":519.76,"body":"interested in and knowledgeable about"},{"startTime":517.56,"endTime":523.2,"body":"both fields and I got lucky with the PHD"},{"startTime":519.76,"endTime":525.279,"body":"student Susanna carvalo Susanna is a"},{"startTime":523.2,"endTime":528.12,"body":"well-trained archaeologist and she's a"},{"startTime":525.279,"endTime":529.839,"body":"well trained primatologist and she's the"},{"startTime":528.12,"endTime":531.72,"body":"core of whatever we've been able to do"},{"startTime":529.839,"endTime":534.12,"body":"at"},{"startTime":531.72,"endTime":536.44,"body":"Cambridge well that's a good lead in for"},{"startTime":534.12,"endTime":538.56,"body":"me to ask kind of a selfish question"},{"startTime":536.44,"endTime":540.12,"body":"because I've only been to bosu before"},{"startTime":538.56,"endTime":545.32,"body":"and actually the the first time I went"},{"startTime":540.12,"endTime":548.2,"body":"to bosu was I I I Met You in conre uh"},{"startTime":545.32,"endTime":551.56,"body":"you were coming from bosu with um"},{"startTime":548.2,"endTime":553.68,"body":"sugiyama Sensei from PR um and I'm just"},{"startTime":551.56,"endTime":556.0,"body":"curious from my own perspective I'd like"},{"startTime":553.68,"endTime":558.519,"body":"to know what your impression of that"},{"startTime":556.0,"endTime":560.959,"body":"particular field site is and and how"},{"startTime":558.519,"endTime":563.6,"body":"kind of I'm interested in kind of the"},{"startTime":560.959,"endTime":565.2,"body":"range of variability between field sites"},{"startTime":563.6,"endTime":568.279,"body":"from your perspective CU you've been to"},{"startTime":565.2,"endTime":570.32,"body":"so many of them probably all of them"},{"startTime":568.279,"endTime":573.24,"body":"yeah it's got pros and like every fueld"},{"startTime":570.32,"endTime":576.92,"body":"site mhm uh and let me do the cons first"},{"startTime":573.24,"endTime":579.68,"body":"it's a small group it's perilously close"},{"startTime":576.92,"endTime":581.6,"body":"to minimal critical mass MH and it's"},{"startTime":579.68,"endTime":583.519,"body":"vulnerable because it's not in a"},{"startTime":581.6,"endTime":584.92,"body":"protected area and so that those sound"},{"startTime":583.519,"endTime":586.12,"body":"like problems for a lot of West African"},{"startTime":584.92,"endTime":589.56,"body":"chimps"},{"startTime":586.12,"endTime":592.12,"body":"right with these isolated pockets it"},{"startTime":589.56,"endTime":593.68,"body":"certainly would apply to fungi U I'm not"},{"startTime":592.12,"endTime":595.079,"body":"sure to what extent these days it"},{"startTime":593.68,"endTime":598.399,"body":"applies to taii but they do have"},{"startTime":595.079,"endTime":600.959,"body":"multiple groups in that population sure"},{"startTime":598.399,"endTime":604.76,"body":"but the pros far outweigh those cons in"},{"startTime":600.959,"endTime":608.399,"body":"in in two regards one is that"},{"startTime":604.76,"endTime":610.839,"body":"um monawa has shown with the outdoor"},{"startTime":608.399,"endTime":613.8,"body":"laboratory that you can do interesting"},{"startTime":610.839,"endTime":615.0,"body":"and useful things with some variables"},{"startTime":613.8,"endTime":617.2,"body":"being"},{"startTime":615.0,"endTime":618.48,"body":"controlled depending on the problem to"},{"startTime":617.2,"endTime":621.16,"body":"to varying"},{"startTime":618.48,"endTime":622.2,"body":"extents with the population of of truly"},{"startTime":621.16,"endTime":625.2,"body":"wild"},{"startTime":622.2,"endTime":627.0,"body":"chimpanzees uh second thing is that"},{"startTime":625.2,"endTime":628.399,"body":"certain things have been done at bosu"},{"startTime":627.0,"endTime":629.68,"body":"which as far as I know have never been"},{"startTime":628.399,"endTime":632.88,"body":"done anywhere else which which is"},{"startTime":629.68,"endTime":636.92,"body":"particularly human chimpanze relations"},{"startTime":632.88,"endTime":638.92,"body":"so Kim Hawkins work and um that's a"},{"startTime":636.92,"endTime":641.839,"body":"model that's going to become more and"},{"startTime":638.92,"endTime":645.279,"body":"more important as there's more and"},{"startTime":641.839,"endTime":646.839,"body":"more engagement interaction friction"},{"startTime":645.279,"endTime":648.56,"body":"whatever you want to call it as things"},{"startTime":646.839,"endTime":650.76,"body":"get Tighter and Tighter for ganes in"},{"startTime":648.56,"endTime":652.959,"body":"Africa and what is encouraging about"},{"startTime":650.76,"endTime":656.56,"body":"that is how well the Basu"},{"startTime":652.959,"endTime":658.56,"body":"Jims have coped with living cheek to gel"},{"startTime":656.56,"endTime":660.76,"body":"with human beings for a considerable"},{"startTime":658.56,"endTime":662.519,"body":"period now I'm not saying everything's"},{"startTime":660.76,"endTime":665.839,"body":"Rosy we know it's not I mean there are"},{"startTime":662.519,"endTime":668.6,"body":"real issues there but somehow it it's"},{"startTime":665.839,"endTime":669.92,"body":"managing to to carry home I want to take"},{"startTime":668.6,"endTime":671.72,"body":"that just a little bit further because"},{"startTime":669.92,"endTime":674.079,"body":"at the end of your talk you brought up"},{"startTime":671.72,"endTime":677.48,"body":"um as part of the future directions um"},{"startTime":674.079,"endTime":680.279,"body":"in say cultural primatology will be"},{"startTime":677.48,"endTime":682.32,"body":"to learn more about how the the"},{"startTime":680.279,"endTime":684.839,"body":"chimpanzee cultures themselves may be"},{"startTime":682.32,"endTime":686.44,"body":"affected by having such close contact"},{"startTime":684.839,"endTime":687.279,"body":"and interactions with human populations"},{"startTime":686.44,"endTime":690.68,"body":"as"},{"startTime":687.279,"endTime":693.04,"body":"well well it's clear that"},{"startTime":690.68,"endTime":696.639,"body":"cultural"},{"startTime":693.04,"endTime":699.16,"body":"adaptation know changing your behavior"},{"startTime":696.639,"endTime":701.399,"body":"and response to changing circumstances"},{"startTime":699.16,"endTime":703.16,"body":"is one of the key issues with regard to"},{"startTime":701.399,"endTime":705.2,"body":"culture I mean that's why we as a"},{"startTime":703.16,"endTime":707.639,"body":"species are so"},{"startTime":705.2,"endTime":709.519,"body":"successful but at the same time we have"},{"startTime":707.639,"endTime":712.279,"body":"to keep in mind that cultural Mal"},{"startTime":709.519,"endTime":714.48,"body":"adaptation can occur as well because we"},{"startTime":712.279,"endTime":717.2,"body":"can make some collective decisions that"},{"startTime":714.48,"endTime":720.72,"body":"turn out to be perhaps short-term"},{"startTime":717.2,"endTime":724.6,"body":"payoffs but long-term major cost"},{"startTime":720.72,"endTime":727.0,"body":"and so uh choosing to engage in corop"},{"startTime":724.6,"endTime":728.56,"body":"rating perhaps being forced into"},{"startTime":727.0,"endTime":731.36,"body":"engaging and crop rating because you"},{"startTime":728.56,"endTime":733.8,"body":"lose your natural resource base and uh"},{"startTime":731.36,"endTime":735.36,"body":"instead you find an artificial"},{"startTime":733.8,"endTime":739.12,"body":"substitute resource"},{"startTime":735.36,"endTime":741.639,"body":"base um may lead to some some Happy"},{"startTime":739.12,"endTime":745.0,"body":"Meals but it may lead to some long-term"},{"startTime":741.639,"endTime":747.639,"body":"tears and um that's presumbly just going"},{"startTime":745.0,"endTime":750.959,"body":"to become more and more of an"},{"startTime":747.639,"endTime":753.0,"body":"issue and so how much do you think that"},{"startTime":750.959,"endTime":754.8,"body":"the human pres presence kind of feeds"},{"startTime":753.0,"endTime":757.16,"body":"back onto the chimp behavior and it's"},{"startTime":754.8,"endTime":759.04,"body":"and things like direct directly like"},{"startTime":757.16,"endTime":761.839,"body":"things like crop rating but also kind of"},{"startTime":759.04,"endTime":764.079,"body":"indirectly like maybe a field abandoned"},{"startTime":761.839,"endTime":766.36,"body":"field becoming secondary forest or"},{"startTime":764.079,"endTime":768.199,"body":"chimps using human paths is that having"},{"startTime":766.36,"endTime":771.92,"body":"a significant impact on their culture"},{"startTime":768.199,"endTime":774.72,"body":"even though humans are not there uh"},{"startTime":771.92,"endTime":777.079,"body":"directly impacting it I I think you're"},{"startTime":774.72,"endTime":779.959,"body":"right to point out indirect as well as"},{"startTime":777.079,"endTime":783.04,"body":"Direct effects and"},{"startTime":779.959,"endTime":784.959,"body":"I think the Direct effects and and so"},{"startTime":783.04,"endTime":787.279,"body":"far I've been talking or we've been"},{"startTime":784.959,"endTime":788.72,"body":"talking about local people in"},{"startTime":787.279,"endTime":790.44,"body":"chimpanzees of course we need to talk"},{"startTime":788.72,"endTime":791.72,"body":"about scientists in chimpanzees and we"},{"startTime":790.44,"endTime":793.839,"body":"need to talk about tourists and"},{"startTime":791.72,"endTime":795.24,"body":"chimpanzees and we need to talk about"},{"startTime":793.839,"endTime":798.48,"body":"right other human"},{"startTime":795.24,"endTime":802.32,"body":"groups um and sometimes it may be"},{"startTime":798.48,"endTime":804.36,"body":"tempting or maybe maybe necessary to"},{"startTime":802.32,"endTime":806.279,"body":"talk about the more Direct effects for"},{"startTime":804.36,"endTime":809.24,"body":"example in terms of disease transmission"},{"startTime":806.279,"endTime":811.56,"body":"right but in the long term assuming"},{"startTime":809.24,"endTime":812.88,"body":"those can be dealt with the the more"},{"startTime":811.56,"endTime":816.04,"body":"indirect effects are probably going to"},{"startTime":812.88,"endTime":817.839,"body":"be the ones that are important and what"},{"startTime":816.04,"endTime":820.519,"body":"what surprises me is is two things about"},{"startTime":817.839,"endTime":822.8,"body":"chimpanzees one is their ability to to"},{"startTime":820.519,"endTime":825.519,"body":"adapt to living daily lives where they"},{"startTime":822.8,"endTime":829.24,"body":"interact with humans every day and"},{"startTime":825.519,"endTime":833.48,"body":"secondly they tolerance at being able to"},{"startTime":829.24,"endTime":833.48,"body":"do this uh it's"},{"startTime":834.44,"endTime":837.92,"body":"extraordinary yeah so sorry we've got"},{"startTime":836.48,"endTime":840.199,"body":"enough on this tangent talking about the"},{"startTime":837.92,"endTime":842.519,"body":"situation in bosu but just to return to"},{"startTime":840.199,"endTime":844.399,"body":"kind of the bigger picture um I'm"},{"startTime":842.519,"endTime":846.399,"body":"wondering what what do you recommend for"},{"startTime":844.399,"endTime":848.199,"body":"people that want to study chimps do you"},{"startTime":846.399,"endTime":853.12,"body":"and your approach has been the the"},{"startTime":848.199,"endTime":856.0,"body":"breadth and um do you see do you see the"},{"startTime":853.12,"endTime":858.04,"body":"the your approach of the breadth and"},{"startTime":856.0,"endTime":859.36,"body":"then the individuals who want to study"},{"startTime":858.04,"endTime":861.8,"body":"depth at one site is kind of"},{"startTime":859.36,"endTime":863.04,"body":"complimentary or what's the relationship"},{"startTime":861.8,"endTime":867.36,"body":"like"},{"startTime":863.04,"endTime":868.44,"body":"there I can only speak from personal"},{"startTime":867.36,"endTime":870.199,"body":"experience and I'm not sure to the"},{"startTime":868.44,"endTime":873.04,"body":"extent to which could be generalized but"},{"startTime":870.199,"endTime":874.04,"body":"I was lucky that my initial experience"},{"startTime":873.04,"endTime":877.639,"body":"with wild"},{"startTime":874.04,"endTime":880.68,"body":"chimpanzees was 13 months uh without a"},{"startTime":877.639,"endTime":882.399,"body":"break uh at gome so I went to a place"},{"startTime":880.68,"endTime":885.959,"body":"that was well established and I got a"},{"startTime":882.399,"endTime":887.88,"body":"good you know total immersion experience"},{"startTime":885.959,"endTime":889.48,"body":"and I would hope that before anyone went"},{"startTime":887.88,"endTime":892.0,"body":"out and started flitting around from"},{"startTime":889.48,"endTime":894.199,"body":"place to place they would somehow ground"},{"startTime":892.0,"endTime":896.44,"body":"themselves in that kind of experience if"},{"startTime":894.199,"endTime":899.6,"body":"it was possible to do so right so I"},{"startTime":896.44,"endTime":901.48,"body":"guess the answer is to me"},{"startTime":899.6,"endTime":903.6,"body":"personally the thing that's worked for"},{"startTime":901.48,"endTime":906.04,"body":"me is a bit of depth and a bit of"},{"startTime":903.6,"endTime":908.079,"body":"breadth but the older I've got and"},{"startTime":906.04,"endTime":909.44,"body":"perhaps I hope the wiser I've got then"},{"startTime":908.079,"endTime":911.44,"body":"I've been able to make more out of the"},{"startTime":909.44,"endTime":913.639,"body":"breath than I would have done when I was"},{"startTime":911.44,"endTime":916.68,"body":"younger I think now let me just say one"},{"startTime":913.639,"endTime":920.199,"body":"more thing which is you can only play"},{"startTime":916.68,"endTime":922.48,"body":"the Bret strategy if people are generous"},{"startTime":920.199,"endTime":924.6,"body":"and there's no reason why they should be"},{"startTime":922.48,"endTime":926.68,"body":"altruistic so if you're going to do the"},{"startTime":924.6,"endTime":928.48,"body":"bread thing I think you have to figure"},{"startTime":926.68,"endTime":930.279,"body":"out ways to do research that is mutually"},{"startTime":928.48,"endTime":932.12,"body":"advantageous to yourself and to your"},{"startTime":930.279,"endTime":933.959,"body":"host so thanks thanks both for joining"},{"startTime":932.12,"endTime":935.519,"body":"us in the primate cast you are most"},{"startTime":933.959,"endTime":938.079,"body":"welcome my pleasure you have been"},{"startTime":935.519,"endTime":939.959,"body":"listening to the primate cast a podcast"},{"startTime":938.079,"endTime":942.04,"body":"series dedicated to the study and"},{"startTime":939.959,"endTime":944.68,"body":"conservation of primates around the"},{"startTime":942.04,"endTime":947.199,"body":"world brought to you by the center for"},{"startTime":944.68,"endTime":949.72,"body":"international collaboration and advanced"},{"startTime":947.199,"endTime":953.079,"body":"studies in primatology of the Primate"},{"startTime":949.72,"endTime":954.88,"body":"Research Institute of Kyoto University"},{"startTime":953.079,"endTime":957.92,"body":"visit us online at"},{"startTime":954.88,"endTime":962.88,"body":"www. cicas"},{"startTime":957.92,"endTime":966.399,"body":"p.p. photo hyphen u.ac.jp"},{"startTime":962.88,"endTime":968.759,"body":"newws SLP podcasts and follow us on"},{"startTime":966.399,"endTime":972.6,"body":"Facebook at"},{"startTime":968.759,"endTime":977.16,"body":"www.fb.com thee primate cast and on"},{"startTime":972.6,"endTime":977.16,"body":"Twitter at the primate cast"}]}