Film Journal Podcast
George (Film Journal) and Ryan (Cinecrisis) dig through film history one oddball pick at a time—hopping from cult horror to forgotten blockbusters, art house to trash fire (sometimes in the same episode). Whether it’s dissecting Hammer Horror, roasting the latest Studio Flop, or revisiting 70's exploration fare- they bring sharp takes, deep trivia, and the kind of banter only good pals can pull off!
No film school snobbery. No hot take clickbait. Just smart, funny conversations for people who like movies and think they actually matter.
Film Journal Podcast
Captain America: Brave New World Discussion
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We saw it
we're on. Man, I'm excited. You know, normally when we do these reviews we're like let's talk about this new movie, and then you call me and I go don't say anything, don't say anything, and then we talk around it for so long that eventually we just say fuck it and just talk about it, and then these like streams become kind of rehashes. And we did that a little tiny bit with this one. But you had seen the movie and I had not, and, um, I just saw it on wednesday. Uh, some people were there to watch it.
Speaker 2I guess it's done okay I think it's done pretty well all things considered.
Speaker 1Yeah, which is kind of surprising to me.
Speaker 2I think what's interesting is kind of the polarization in terms of online reaction, critical reaction to this movie. It's basically, you know, bipolar. You have all the people just hoping that it fails, that it's total trash, um, because they want to ascribe a particular, you know can I get into that?
Speaker 1why do people want it to fail? Is it because everyone hates marvel now, or is it because so?
Speaker 2I mean if you're making youtube videos, it's a surefire way to generate. You know clickbait for instance, and probably one of the best examples ever, was that that trish reagan video that I sent you the video, the thumbnail of, where I didn't even watch it, but like I'm sure she has no, absolutely, absolutely no idea about anything related to the hollywood film industry but what was her thing?
Speaker 1she was like her. Her pose on the photo was like the poster and she was like exactly what, and she was reacting to the thursday night box office preview.
Speaker 2Numbers were not very good it's a flop, yeah, uh okay, next flop so I guess, oh sorry then. And then you have, I think what's interesting even more so is on the opposite side of the political spectrum. You have people basically criticizing this movie for saying it does not go far enough with what they want for it to have a political agenda. The movie is basically apolitical in the end, I think just spoiler, non-spoiler alert there's no politics here in this movie.
Speaker 1It is none. None, okay here in this movie it is none toast, okay, absolutely none. Zero, like I think, captain america winter soldier had more political edge to it than this movie. Oh for sure, I'm for sure, by a mile, by a mile, like okay. So let's just get into it and we'll just, we'll unpack as we go. What did you think of the movie, man? I mean, what did you? Did you like it?
Speaker 2I did. I actually, I'm happy to say I liked it. I enjoyed the movie. I thought it was a fun time. I thought that I think there's a lot to actually enjoy here. And by by any means is it the perfect captain america movie, is it? Is it the best in the series? No, but from all things that we've gotten from marvel of late, this one's pretty good. I've had a fun time with this one. How about you?
Speaker 1you Flatline for me, man. There were certain things I liked, but after I walked out of the theater I was just like, Really Okay, we have a Madam Web 2.0 situation here, where I enjoyed it and you clearly did not.
Speaker 1No, I did not enjoy it. But, dude, I have a hard time getting really hyped up either way about this thing. I mean, I think I have interesting things to say about it. I have some, you know, some thoughts, but, man, I don't know, it's just that that's actually made me hate it a little bit more as I walked out of it and was just like, eh, you know, like I was like really Like there's, it's not even bad enough to be mad about, but it's just, I don't know, man, it's very average.
Speaker 2It's very average, Very very, but I don't think that that necessarily makes it bad.
Speaker 1I will tell you what.
Speaker 2This was the Madam Web syndrome, okay, right, where the movie is just like mediocre, um unambitious, and people go out of their way to hammer it so hard that it's the worst thing ever made and it's not, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1There's so much more, that's out there.
Polarized Audience Reactions
Speaker 2That's worse than this can, I can.
Speaker 1Let's go on a sliding scale and just say things that we liked, and I'll go first and we'll just keep going down the list. What I was really surprised by was how engaged and I was in Harrison Ford's character Thunderbolt Ross, and how good I thought Harrison Ford was in the movie.
Speaker 2This is one of the best performances of his, the last last half of his career. Here I mean he, he actively does, he's trying, he's trying in this movie. He doesn't look bored to death, like he normally does in every single movie that he's in, including Indiana Jones, by the way.
Speaker 1I would agree. I thought that he was terrific in this and I guess any sort of seasoned actor would say that getting mad or whatever is not that hard to do and that's what people generally assume is like tough as an actor. That's actually very like not hard, like the fact that he was doing it and like getting into it. I was like wow, that's especially that scene. When now that's another thing too you can tell with like reshoots, because there's all sorts of scenes that are just filmed in like tiny rooms. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Which I guess gave the film a little bit of a small feeling Like you'll cut to some giant grand CG vista and then someone will be like a little tiny room. You know Absolutely.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, that's part of the production drama that you know encircled this movie and why people are beating up on it as well. Anytime you have a movie that is in the headlines for having most of the movie reshot and I believe what this movie was multiple times over because of negative audience test reaction, it's an easy way to dog, pile on the movie, and does it really make a difference? I don't know. I think it was fine.
Speaker 1I can't. I find it so hard to believe that these audiences they pull out of malls or grocery stores or whoever, if that's still how they do it right Are highly critical of the plot, machinations and character development and all that. Anytime I hear that they're like oh, the test reaction was terrible, I'm like it must be fucking bad if that's the case, because people like anything. You know what I mean. Right, it must be fucking bad if that's the case because people like anything, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1Right, this must be terrible. This is not terrible. I mean maybe like the reshoots suit that, but I can't imagine what that would be. If I had to guess, I would say that people found the movie to be too complicated, and that was a critique, so they simplified it.
Speaker 2Yes, and that's disappointing. If that's the correct assumption which I think, you're onto something there. This is a very plot heavy, mystery driven movie which is very different than many of the superhero movies, especially the Marvel. You know, as I, that mold somewhat, but it's much more plot driven where we're actively searching for this, the mystery behind everything. And most of the movies are not. They're not interested in any kind of actual plot, it's just bang, bang, shoot, shoot.
Speaker 1I would disagree with you. I think this is like George Lucas, like prequel level complicated, where it's like, ooh, the emperor, hired these guys and and then they hired this guy, and then this guy. You know what I mean. That's like you know, but he's actually secretly working for him. And, by the way, that's all the complicated.
Speaker 2I would buy into that if and this is where I thought and this is where the movie actually defied my expectation. My expectation was that General or President Ross was actually going to be in on everything too.
Speaker 1I agree, that's what I was waiting for.
Speaker 2The fact that he's not, that he is actually sort of a victim in all this is actually part of the reason I like the movie more in the end. It makes him a much more complicated character than we're used to in movies like this.
Speaker 1Absolutely. I would 100% agree with you. I think that's what made him compelling. I think ultimately you could say, oh, it's a complicated plot because Sidewinder got hired by a mysterious guy to steal something, but at the end of it it all ends up with Harrison Ford turning into a Hulk Right. So I mean, like, how politically complicated could this movie be? It's all just being masterminded by Big Brain, who has an evil plan which is dumb.
Speaker 2Right, it's a revenge plan, which is the simplest of them all. Yeah, exactly, but yes, it's it's concocted in this web and this veneer of complexity which makes it intriguing as the viewer to watch.
Speaker 1At least, I thought so it would be cool if this leader character oh no, they don't even call him that, he's just, you know, like big brain, but like you know that, to me, was actually one of the most disappointing parts of the movie is that they didn't have the balls to have him like.
Speaker 2I thought they were going to go for it at the end of the movie, when he attacks and kills that guy with, like the sonic waves in the brain or whatever, and he's like yeah, yeah and I thought he was gonna say I, I am your leader, and he didn't do it.
Speaker 1Well, you could have done that if like, in addition to this guy's evil plan. What if his evil plan was to like?
Speaker 2be the president be the president.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly. So there was like, hey, I'm gonna be the president because I'm the smartest guy ever, but I'm also gonna get my revenge on general ross as a sort of like side gift, right that? Because that would be great that would be great, because then you could actually say something political to where he would be like you hire and you elect an idiot like Ross when I'm the smartest guy. You know what I'm saying, right.
Speaker 2You could have an actual. You could find a lot of current political allusions that would fit into that as well.
Speaker 1Wouldn't that be nice and different and cool, because like and like actually resonate and mean something. I'm the smartest and so maybe he would want to like. You know, I'm too ugly because my head looks like a brain, but like, um, I could put my, my consciousness in ross or whatever, and then maybe he goes haywire and he turns into a hulk or something, but like, in the end it's dumb because it's just a contrived reason for him to turn into a hulk. It's like nobody's revenge on ross would be. I'm going to turn him into a Hulk and that's going to like well, I don't, I don't.
Harrison Ford as Thunderbolt Ross
Speaker 2I disagree with that, because the the Hulk is probably the antithesis of everything good in Ross's mind, Right he? What does he hate Most of all? He hates Banner. He hates the Hulk, and so to turn him into a Hulk is probably one of the ultimate insults that you could do.
Speaker 1Yeah Well, they should have hit that harder for the regular audience, because they didn't do that enough. They're like he hates the Hulk Right. They could have a little more of that.
Speaker 2One of the one of the most detrimental aspects of the film is the fact that they talk up the importance of Betty Ross so much in the movie movie, yet she is only revealed at the end of the movie in a 15-second cameo which is very dubious and has some controversy of its own why is there controversy? People were saying that she wasn't actually there and that she wasn't actually on set, and that's like I couldn't.
Speaker 1I could absolutely believe that yeah why is that there's?
Speaker 2no close-up, couldn't? I could absolutely believe that. Yeah, why is that there's no close-up? She's like very enshrouded, there's something weird there. And if that's the case, if live tyler was not available to participate in the movie, just recast betty ross.
Speaker 1We recast oh, people are saying it wasn't her, or what are they saying?
Speaker 2we're saying it was not her. It was like almost like a deep fake that she was not.
Speaker 1Yeah why, I don't know. Okay, but my biggest thing is that I I liked her. I love live tyler she. I had a huge crush on her as a kid from lord of the rings and, um, I wish that they would have given her an actual role in the movie I agree and my.
Speaker 2if I was doing this, what I would have had her do and maybe it's too obvious, maybe it's too on the nose is that when Ross is hulked out after the Falcon has excuse me, captain America, falcon, sorry Do the movement.
Speaker 1Yeah, she walks down the street.
Speaker 2He's done everything he's could and he's neutralized the Red Hulk. He's still going, though that would have been the moment for betty to enter the scene and calm her father down. The love between the father and daughter is the thing that ultimately stops him. That would have been a nice touch.
Speaker 1Maybe it's too obvious, maybe it's too sentimental on the nose, but I think that would have been a nice touch to that character's relationship with his the thing, I the thing that I did like about this, though and and I know people are complaining that they're mining plot elements from a movie that's almost shockingly. This shocked me. This really fucked me up. That Hulk movie is almost 20 years old 2008. Oh, that made me feel a little weird, who?
Speaker 2cares, who cares, what's the big deal?
Speaker 1No, I liked it. I thought it was cool because I liked the idea of cross-pollinating, like the Hulk. You know, normally you'd say this would be a Hulk movie plot, but now it's a Captain America thing, you know. And yeah, this guy says Trembling Color, says Betty Ross, played by my two all-timers, all-timers club, jennifer Connelly and the Ang Lee one and Liv Tyler and the MCU one.
Speaker 2Big time, big time. But yeah, betty ross, big time, um so. So that's an interesting point, is it's? People are saying, oh, this is the incredible hulk too. I disagree.
Speaker 1This is thunderbolt ross the movie this is thunderbolt ross movie and I've asked you that in the car I was like you know, I don't know, I just don't, I don't find anthony mackie, I just don't know if he can like lead a movie like. He's fine, he's good as a second banana. I was never captivated with him in the role of falcon, a character I really liked in the movie. Now I know it's like you can't get a guy the reason he was cast as falcon, so you cannot get a guy who surpasses chris evans in screen presence if he's going to be number two, second banana, but then it's a little tough to like move him into like the number one role. Now, for the most part I think he does a fine job, but you'll notice we didn't talk about him right off the bat in his own movie. But go ahead.
Speaker 2So so on that note, I would say this is probably the best that he's ever been in any of his roles as this character absolutely the strongest that he's been.
Speaker 2I think he has a real presence to him that has not been explored before in other films where he's been featured in, because he's been amongst 20 other characters in those Avengers movies and in the Captain America 2 and 3 he's a side character where we're just being introduced to him. So I think what I found particularly interesting in regards to his character is the relationship that he has with the Carl Lumley Isaiah Bradley character.
Speaker 1Yeah, who I thought was also good.
Speaker 2Oh, excellent. And I love Carl Lumley, like that's a. He's a fantastic actor and if you've never, if you don't know who he is, voice acting wise. He was the voice of Martian Manhunter on the Justice League cartoon and he's he pops up everywhere, he and he pops up everywhere. He's always one of these characters. He's one of these character actors that you'll see from time to time in many different movies and TV shows, but he goes unnoticed by most, I'd say. But he's a great actor and the weight and sadness in that character is just very dramatic. That relationship that could have been more of a mentor-protege thing was kind of wasted in this movie in favor of shoehorning in the annoying sidekick.
Speaker 1Joaquin Torres.
Speaker 2I didn't hate him, I found him just very unnecessary and just the obligatory Marvel joke humor as the vehicle for that, and it was like the joke.
Speaker 1humor wasn't so bad for when the press corps no, the other word, the most egregious part was the press corps girl. When harrison ford turns into the hole and he goes since when were they red? I'm like that must have gotten a big laugh from the fucking walmart test crew because like that is hideous, like this should this should be like the big moment. I should make kind of a sad moment where Harrison Ford's like at the very end of his rope, he's like clearly in pain, he's doing a great job, he turns into the Hulk and it's like wow, but then she goes. Since when are they red?
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Shut the fuck up. You know, like that was so stupid I I, because they just jammed it in there for you before like the scene started and that just soured it for me.
Speaker 2man, I hated that that, and the, the secret service girl, who has been great in the movie up to that point, is a very minor character, but she's like president ross and she's like shooting, she's like aiming the gun at him yeah, that was the thing too that like really was dumb, was like when he turns into the hulk, they all start shooting at him.
Speaker 1Yeah what? No, you would not do that why not?
Speaker 2he's a giant monster that's attacking the White House.
Speaker 1Yeah, but he's the president like you just saw the president turn into this guy. Now maybe if the president it was in the you know in the seclusion of like you know Camp David or something, and then he comes out and there's a red Hulk and they think he's attacking the president, fine. But like they just saw Harrison Ford turned into the Hulk and they're just like the Secret Service is like, oh, let's shoot at him so you're saying that the president's above the law?
Speaker 2then you know.
Speaker 1I guess, man, yeah, but like you wouldn't shoot the president because he turned into a Hulk. I guess I don't know if that's in the Secret Service handbook or not, but um, what to do in case the president hulks out? But um, I don't know, and I also so.
Speaker 2So I want to circle back a little bit, because we kind of got we got ahead of ourselves here.
Speaker 2I guess part of the reason also I like the movie is this movie is like very schizophrenic it's it's a frankenstein-like monster of mashed up concepts and ideas that don't necessarily belong together, and that's really kind of what intrigued me a lot about this movie is. Imagine you have like a box of Marvel toys, okay, and you're a five-year-old kid. You just dump them out on the floor and you're just picking random characters here and there and you're like, oh, I'm going to pick Falcon and he's dressed as the variant where he's dressed as Captain America and I pick my General Ross figure and my Red Hulk figure and my leader figure and I'm just like now I'm playing with them.
Plot Complexities and Character Development
Speaker 1It's not congruent at all but it's kind of interesting for someone who's a comic book fan and someone who's read these characters over the years to see those kind of characters clash and come together and that's absolutely I enjoy I like the cross-pollination of, like the different you know hero stories and bringing back and finishing off they I'm sure that bugged kevin feige a little bit that they never, you know, yeah, really did anything, hulk wise with, with ross and never, uh, brought back the leader who was set up. You know what I mean. Yes, and on the note of the leader.
Speaker 2We talked about the thing that he doesn't say his name, and what I was hoping for was just that moment I described earlier. But they did it so perfectly in Aquaman, the first Aquaman, which, when Patrick Wilson announces himself as Ocean Master, which is also a goofy, stupid name like the leader, okay, but you can make those moments work and they, they blew it.
Speaker 1They blew that you could make it work because, like you, they could all be like who are you? And then like, uh, he turns them all to be his clones or whatever, and then he goes the leader.
Speaker 1You know what I mean. Like you could easily do that, but like, yeah, I thought that he was wasted for the most part, though I thought there were moments when he was good. The best scene in the entire film was when he has Ross on the phone and he's like egging him on to turn into the Hulk. But again, on that submarine. If this movie wasn't so bloated with CGI bullshit, normally that would be a moment to make a really massive, amazing submarine set. You know what I mean when you could walk around and do stuff Instead. Ross is set. You know what I mean, where you could walk around and do stuff instead. Like ross is behind a little desk and then three people come up to talk to him behind his desk and he's like, oh, let me go back to my little other little room back here. You know what I?
Speaker 2mean um, you wonder when when those were added into the the movie yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1But yeah, I thought harrison ford boy, I thought he did a nice job, what a team player and and you know what, I bet it was pitched to him that like, look, dude, like this mackie guy, he, we don't know if he can handle a film by himself or not, so you'll be like co-leads totally, which was really kind of an interesting thing and I thought for the most part worked and was cool you know I thought he was a really unique character it's not uncommon for the villain to be the co-lead of the movie if the lead principal actor as the hero is someone who is, you know, not exactly tested or sure right.
Speaker 2I mean going back to look at the 1989 Batman film. Who gets top billing? It's Jack Nicholson as the Joker, who is effectively co-lead with Michael Keaton. You could say Gene Hackman is co-lead with Christopher Reeve in the first Superman. So it's not without precedent. But in the current, current era, that's maybe a little taboo but it worked.
Speaker 1It worked well and I liked, uh, the kid that was the mini falcon junior.
Speaker 2I thought he was fine, terrible that was single-handedly the ugliest costume I've ever seen in a superhero movie. His outfit.
Speaker 1Well, I just I thought it was all right. I mean like, like, um green and gray combination armor.
Speaker 2It was like looked like a beetle boards power ranger, like circa 1999 costume.
Speaker 1Okay what was his name? Is his name falcon? Joaquin torres yeah, but like what's his superhero name?
Speaker 2I guess he's Falcon Falcon too. He was apparently introduced I was not familiar with him either in the movies or the comics. Apparently he was introduced in the Sam Wilson Captain America run from several years ago.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2And then he was in the Falcon and winter soldier TV show, which I did not watch.
Speaker 1Okay, got it. Well, he was. I thought he was in the Falcon and Winter Soldier TV show, which I did not watch. Okay, got it. Well, I thought he looked like the comics, kind of from what I'm looking up here, and I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2So Tremblay Cullors asked a good question Does the Red Hulk have the heat and fire elements he did in the comic? No, and that's part of the. I think they lost something there too is that when the Red Hulk came on the scene it was a very different story than what's presented here, and I think that would have made maybe more of an interesting plot too. The Red Hulk was introduced as like a mystery element. Who is the Red Hulk? What is he up to? What is he planning? He was the central antagonist of his story and he did the madder he got, the hotter he got, and he started generating basically heat and fire as a result of his condition, instead of getting stronger like banner, the banner halt does yeah, well, I would, I would.
Speaker 1I would ask you what did you think of the action in the movie?
Speaker 2I thought the action was some of the worst part of the movie.
Speaker 1I was generally interested in the action yeah, it was very boring, like when they were flying around. That was the really. It was very boring, like when they were flying around. That was the really. Sad thing was that I always like when they try to have superhero action scenes where it's not just fighting a villain and having to, like you know, neutralize the two compromised pilots and stop the missiles and stuff. That's really great in, you know, in theory, right, but it was like the most boringly shot. And you know what else I hated too. They make. They make falcon first of all his costume when he's captain america fine, but the wings and the helmet and the the wings shoot lasers or like are like knives too. I hated that shit. It looked, it was stupid. And is they both put these ant-man masks on and you can't tell who they are, which is probably because they did that whole scene in cgi before they shot one piece of film, the whole fucking movie, right, you never. Why can't their masks be like you know, like a face that everyone's doing that.
Speaker 2Now you know, like this little face, so you can see, like anthony mackie's expressions but it's like falcon's costume in the comics where he has basically the gambit style head mask where his you know, I mean, like you know, tom crew, like the tom cruise photo photo from the new movie where he's underwater, he's got this little fucking like square oh, I see his face and his lights around his face and like I don't know why they couldn't have done that for them so I could see what they were doing, but like to put on these little goofy little way to cover it up, yeah
Speaker 1I guess it's like they're flying supersonic now, yeah, but like it just was. It looked terrible. And then I hated all the falcons, little bells and whistle, goofball shit, because it really downplayed this idea that, well, I don't have superpowers, which I guess was some kind of thing they were trying to do as an art for him. I guess, like I don't think you need to do that, don't have him, have all these super gadgets, you know how is he credibly supposed to fight a hulk-like monster?
Speaker 2then he's just a guy. I mean, batman could theoretically do it, you could, you would yeah if you were seeing it. But there's something about this character per se that we don't necessarily think has the skill sets to to do that without an enhanced armor, like an Iron man character for instance.
Speaker 1Okay, I'll stop for you right now. First off, they're in the laboratory of Dr Evil, right yeah? Which, by the way, I thought was every time there was a hand-to-hand combat fight scene. Well done, yes. I liked that they didn't fall into the trap of doing this John Wick thing where the camera just circles around everybody all the time and we're trying to do some cool one-shot deal. It was very straightforward. It was highlighting the stunt work and the actual choreography of the fight, which I thought was cool. None of this matthew vaughn, john wick, fucking goofy bullshit, right. So I like that a lot. I thought it was good. I thought fighting minions in an evil prison laboratory was a cool yeah idea. You know it was cool. Um, the opening sequence in which we defeat sidewinder, played by everyone's favorite um uh giovanni ribisi that was cool.
Speaker 1Giovanni ribisi no, uh, no, no, no. Carlo esposito yeah, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, exactly like okay from casino royale, is that? No, no, this guy's in uh breaking bad or bitter, call saul or something I've never. I haven't seen, I haven't watched either of those. But sorry, sue me, but um, uh, he was good. I thought he was good. He should have been the main bad guy, but uh I don't think he would have.
Speaker 1He would have been able to support the movie as entirely as the as the singular bad guy he has a cool-ass voice and the coolest part of the movie is when he tries to kill sam wilson in his car and he comes at him with the guns, like all that stuff. That like recalls back to winter soldier, before it has to go off the rails and just be a big cgi. Um, but like okay, here's what you do. So obviously there's a little bit of a weirdness here to where the hulk should be. Kind of Like not everybody can be a Hulk, right, yeah, you know? Kind of like everyone can't be a super serum dude. So like there had to be some way that Ross is a maybe a more vulnerable or combustible Hulk approximation. Uh, so maybe in the laboratory there's some kind of fucking serum that he has to take or there's some way that you can neutralize the effect of the Hulk, because it's a airsats kind of like B-grade Hulk form. He's eating pills that turns him into the Hulk.
Speaker 2Give me a break, he's taking irradiated gamma pills to turn him into the Hulk.
Speaker 1That's dumb right.
Speaker 2Is it any of this stuff?
Anthony Mackie as Captain America
Speaker 1falcon has to like work to stop ross from destroying things which he blew up the fucking white house and the george washington monument, which I thought was interesting and, um, you know, just come up with a clever way to defeat him. You don't have to just beat him to death and I know at the end they try to do something where, by the way, I did like that they tied in that falcon used to be a counselor for soldiers and they brought that back and had him that be kind of part of his personality. I like that right now when it comes to like talking down hulk at the end. Come on, you know, but uh, I went on there for a while.
Speaker 2Thoughts so, uh, some interesting comments from boss. Baby harrison ford is too low energy to be the Red Hulk, okay.
Speaker 1Perhaps the guy was agonizing in that hallway. He was pissed off.
Speaker 2He shouldn't be fighting the Hulk. Where is Ant-Man? Okay, we don't need Ant-Man for this movie. Red Hulk was the only one with a character arc. But the leader is obviously the real villain. But he turns himself in for no reason. Well, the reason he turns himself in for no reason. Well, the reason he turns himself in is to, uh, to get that phone call, which he didn't need to do. He could have released that phone call regardless to get it played on the white house speakers.
Speaker 1He could have just done that he's the smartest guy in the world. You can't figure out. I can't figure out a fucking bluetooth I don't know.
Speaker 2I guess he wanted the headlines because all of a sudden all the press corps people get an emergency headline and that guy was. What was probably one of the singular worst line reads I've ever heard was mr president, samuel stearns has turned himself in and it's like yeah, how did everybody know about samuel stearns all of a sudden?
Speaker 1because, like, bucky shows up for a cameo and falcon's like you know samuel stearns, and I'm like why does anybody know who this fucking guy is? He's been like a day and he's like how does everybody know who this dude is? He didn't get on TV and say hey which, by the way, it would have been way like a way better way to frame the president would to be like hack into TV and be like. Here's my audio recording.
Speaker 2Yeah, release it online. Exactly Release it on X.
Speaker 1Release it on X? Yeah, absolutely yeah. It felt like the last fight was in the middle of the movie. Boy, not for me, dude. It was kind of dragging at that point for me. I was kind of ready for it to be over with, but the whole Hulk scene at the end I was like it didn't do anything for me. I thought that they did an incredible job, cgi to make it look like Harrison Ford was a Hulk.
Speaker 2Yes, the facial look great. Now, I think, when the hulk he's transforming into the hulk for the first time and he emerges from behind the white house podium looks incredibly squishy and unreal and it was very.
Speaker 1They did like a weird wide shot where he's like standing there, and I was like he looked very incongruent with the environment. That well you know why. Because everything else looked fake too. You know like they get on that little uh street with the with the cherry blossoms. It looks so fucking fake man it's like. And why couldn't they film that in a real place? I know I'm doing this little high pitch like annoying guy voice this entire review, I'm sorry. I just realized how annoying that must sound. But put up some fake trees.
Speaker 2Have a real set.
Speaker 1Have a real set. It looked bad. You know, ang Lee filmed in downtown San Francisco and it looks tremendous and he had all sorts of extras and army people running around and Jennifer Connelly and it looked fantastic.
Speaker 2Right, that's because I mean, it's a different era at this point different, different world in terms of better.
Speaker 1I mean, if you want your movie to look good, just make it look like that that's not how they make movies.
Speaker 2I guess anymore, it's all about just impacting. I mean, how much of the movie, I wonder, is created years, if not months, if not years in advance of the movie, as they're just creating these generic action scenes and then they have to kind of write the movie around it. Isn't that what they do. They have the CGI making these random action scenes and then they kind of develop the movie around that.
Speaker 1Might be. I mean, that's what Michael Bay did on Transformers 2, because the writer's strike, they couldn't finish the script, so he just had the CGI guys start working on it. And CGI guys start working on it and they were like, what do you want, michael? And he's like, how about they fight at the pyramids? That'd be sweet. And then it was the job of the writers when they got back to make it all make sense, right? And I think that the blessing of that movie is that it worked because it made a shit load of money. So I guess we'll just keep doing that.
Speaker 2But it's diminishing returns. And so you eventually get to the point where scammed enough people out of money by making them go to those transformers movies where now they make no money whatsoever. Oh, they don't.
Speaker 1I mean, they make some money, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I would like to talk to you about the character of the Israeli black widow.
Speaker 2Yes, interesting choice, and apparently there was. They were going to play up her history and her backstory a little bit more, but I think there was some controversy about that because the character, the character in the comics, it's not someone that I'm super familiar with. I I looked her up and it sounded vaguely familiar, but I'm not 100 sure she was like a masad agent in the comics and, of course, in the current political environment that would not be, uh, acceptable to put for. You would get protests, probably from people.
Speaker 1I get it, but like that's. That's the whole thing is like. This is not some beloved character that happens to be in Mossad, it's like some character. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2Character. Could it have been any character unrelated that they just created for the movie? Yes, it would have been just as effective. I don't think anyone's going to see this movie and actually be excited that that character is portrayed on screen. Nor are they going to be excited about the cameo from D-Man, who's in this movie as well.
Speaker 1Oh, really.
Speaker 2That's the guy that the leader kills His Falcon's friend who's helping him with the intel. Apparently, that's the guy that the leader kills the his falcon's friend who's intel. Apparently that's d-man, it's like who cares if he doesn't. If they don't appear in costume and you don't, and you're not able to identify them other than looking it up afterwards online, it's totally worthless, okay okay.
Speaker 1So here's what I want to know was like the idea that the president has a secret massad agent as his like bodyguard? That seems like a really good plot point for, like a completely different movie that doesn't end with that, doesn't end with like harrison ford turning into a hulk, because like, even with all the reshoots, I don't understand like how would that play in at all or be important in this plot?
Speaker 2well, she's not massad in this movie, she's just. She's the extraction, and why?
Speaker 1does he have this like black widow protecting him Like there's no idea?
Speaker 2See, you're right. That would have been an interesting take to say that she's not secret service, she's not a true government employee, she's just this person that he brought in as his personal bodyguard.
Speaker 1That would mean that she I mean in the role, in her role in the movie. That would mean that she I mean in the role, in her role in the movie. It's just that like, oh, she's just like a fixer for the president, yeah, but like I was expecting a little more out of her, like had some kind of tie to him, wanted to protect him even though he did something bad. You know, there was some reason why she in particular was his go-to gal, but we didn't get it.
Speaker 2And, by the way, this chick's like four foot ten, right. Well, we can have a disney plus miniseries, 10 episodes devoted to her, maybe, okay, I guess.
Speaker 1But I'm thinking to myself is this gal some phenomenal actors from something I've never seen before? Because I don't get like. She's like four foot ten. She, she's like so small and tiny, like there were certain shots where she's walking and I was. Now I'm like this looks like a little tiny, little kid it's one of the many mysteries of this movie yeah true also like I remember about this time last year seeing the toys um in the mcdonald's which I put in the thumbnail.
Speaker 1They were released almost a full year in advance because the, the chinese uh, already made the the. If only they had some adamantium. I didn't, the chinese weren't in the, they weren't in the game to try to steal the adamantium oh man, that's another very cowardly move on part of this on this movie, incredibly, incredibly make it the russians yeah at least the russians, if not the chinese.
Speaker 2But we have this um world, um geopolitical, um strategy, everyone's, everyone's. After the adamantium, which was discovered on the celestial island that was left over from the Eternals, which I didn't see if I had, does it matter? Did you feel left out, knowing, not understanding why there's just this giant asteroid of a celestial being in the Pacific Ocean, indian Ocean?
Action Sequences and Visual Effects
Speaker 2it doesn't matter but anyway, you have the geopolitical scramble to obtain the adamantium that's found on this body of this floating wreckage, and it's between the United States, Japan, France and India, which is kind of a bizarre combination and mixture of countries. Why the two other biggest countries in the world are not vying for that, I have no idea.
Speaker 1Because the Japanese don't come off as evil at all. You could have it be the Chinese, and that wouldn't be controversial. They don't do anything wrong. It's the US president. That's being weird, right.
Speaker 2They're just so worried that they're going to offend the Chinese and have the movie banned in China that they just don't even bother. And then they probably like that they show the Japanese as these kind of aggressive people and the Chinese maybe like that. I don't know.
Speaker 1Yeah, maybe you're right, but I don't know. Yeah, that was goofy, but where was I going with that?
Speaker 2That was probably the most unplausible part of the movie, more unplausible than people transforming into giant red monsters.
Speaker 1You know what that whole angle was cool and like. If you want to make a movie about subterfuge and like political intrigue or something, have have. The president asked captain america to like go to japan and like do something, you know, I mean, or whatever. Or maybe he's like tracking captain america decides to track this mysterious israeli gal and she's like in japan, go to japan, japan's awesome, right, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2Like do something there, like, right, like well, ross goes to japan and we are in a scene it goes to like a room where it's just a room with a koi pond, yep, and they walk and talk and that's it. Yeah, very interesting.
Speaker 1Also I was going to say about the toys. There was a toy of Diamondback, the famous Captain America love interest. Where would she have fit into this? I don't know.
Speaker 2I don't know. So anyway, back to some of the critical reviews of the movie. One of the things I can't stand the most is the bs claim of people saying, oh, how you had to do their marvel homework right. It always, this always comes up about what you don't. You don't, it's just an. It's just an annoying criticism that comes up from time to time.
Speaker 2It's easy and in fact, you do not need to watch the incredible hawk to understand this movie. The movie goes out of its way to explicitly state a few things. In in the beginning two minutes of the movie, there's a newsreel footage of people talk, talking heads, on tv, explaining what happened at the climax of the incredible hulk, even in a very unrealistic news like manner where they mentioned betty ross, the girlfriend of bruce banner, and it's like do most people in this universe know that Bruce Banner is the Hulk?
Speaker 1I don't know, yeah, like you. You would say like an associate, a former, a close associate.
Speaker 2That that part was very jarring too, in terms of the dialogue. And then the eternal thing, the eternals reference, which is just a way of getting that back into the fold a little bit more. I don way of getting that back into the fold a little bit more. I don't think that you necessarily need to watch that movie in order to understand anything that that happens here. It's totally, totally unnecessary. But people are like oh, I had to do my. Let's talk about the worst homework ever having to watch the incredible hulk and the eternals. It's like, well, you don't have to watch any of that, or you can just not see this movie either if you don't want to.
Speaker 1No, one's forced to do anything yeah, people like these movies because of the interconnected continuity. It makes them feel like involved and like they have some lore. They're getting to be like comic books now you know what?
Speaker 2I mean this is one of the closest ones to a, to a comic book style story that I that I've seen, especially in recent years I'm kind of with you.
Speaker 1That's kind of why I did like it. I just wish that it like a. I wish that there was a little more to it. You know, they have all these great elements they're working with and there's not enough, you know. And also I'd like to talk to you about, like, as far as politics. I think when people say they're expecting it to be more political, I think what they mean is that they wanted another kind of black Panther thing where this was like the black superhero movie, and it absolutely is not that there's like two little tokens thrown out there like, oh, we're going to the White House and we're playing some rap music. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2But other than that, the other big part is more or less a throwaway reference. That then comes kind of full circle later, where Isaiah Bradley exists as this character who the Joaquin Torres character is praising him. Oh, thank you for your service. All that, what happened to you, man? Why weren't you active after your, your missions? All was thrown in jail by the US government for 30 years and experimented on, and then it kind of doesn't go anywhere with that. That plays no bearing on his susceptibility of being brainwashed later on by the leader. That that has nothing to do with anything. They were just using him as a scapegoat when they could have used literally anyone no one ever says it.
Speaker 1there could have been something where it's like falcon, how could you bring a guy here who obviously hates america? You know, I mean fal Falcon would have to stand up for him. Falcon suffered, no, like he should have suffered some political or like media blowback for that.
Speaker 2You know what I mean, but there's no. That's having Isaiah Bradley be brainwashed and perform that action Doesn't play into the movie, any more than having any random character do that other than it's his friend. And they're doing it for dramatic purposes, like there's no reason in terms of the leader's plot. He did not need that character to do that.
Speaker 1Yeah, and boss baby makes the point. The TV show is about racial politics. I assume Disney made them cut that stuff out. They did Right. But it's like then you bring back a character like that and kind of don't do anything with it, like you know it's. That's a little tough, that's a tough line to walk it's a tough line to walk, but what's the better outcome?
Speaker 2we probably wouldn't have enjoyed this movie as much if it had been full of racial politics, for instance kind of handed in a heavy-handed nature, which is the way that most of these movies and tv shows are are addressed. It's not subtle. There's never subtlety in any of these shows. So the fact that they kind of avoided it, I don't.
Speaker 1I don't mind it necessarily yeah, yeah, I just thought it could.
Speaker 2It could have given falcon there should be mainstream entertainment that all people can enjoy on a superficial level?
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely, and that's actually why I didn't like the show very much. I thought the show was fine. I was compelled in certain ways when it started getting racial like that and Falcon all of a sudden has this heavy hearted, like he doesn't want to be Captain America because of, like, black racial history or something, I was like that's just, I mean, I don know what, how good of an angle that is for a character. And also it's just kind of depressing because, like to be the black captain, america should just be like, hey, that's cool, you know, like isn't that great. Next, you know, I mean it shouldn't be like this agonizing decision he has to make, which I thought was like just a weird choice. But, um, I would have liked to see him suffer Like Captain America brought the dude with him who shot the president, right. Yeah, he didn't suffer any fallout from that. He should have had to like Bill. He should have been like you're out of commission as Captain America.
Speaker 2How about that?
Speaker 1Something or like you're out of commission. Then he has to go on a secret mission to like redeem himself and like his friend. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2Yeah Well, how about that? He? He, because Captain America is a government position in this film universe, I guess he does this action where he brings the would be assassin to the white house. The government revokes his title as Captain America. He becomes the Falcon again for middle part of the movie and because he then saves the president and restores order, he has become reinstated as captain america. He re-earns the title. You know that's all heroes have to do in these movies, is they have a low and then they come back.
Speaker 1I mean, that's a possibility too I wouldn't have him be falcon again, I'd have him still be like yeah, I'm captain america I'm nomad. I am now nomad, right, okay? Man without a country? Uh yeah, I don't know, brother, I mean this was okay, it was okay. I saw the trailer for for uh, thunderbolts terrible beforehand.
Speaker 2Horrible looked awful, just awful so before we, before we talk about any of that stuff, I have a couple of things left, left remaining. Okay.
Speaker 1The big tense to this movie I think were two things we talked about any of that stuff.
Speaker 2I have a couple of things left remaining. Okay, the big tense to this movie, I think, were two things. We talked about one of them already. The one we didn't talk about is can you successfully make a Captain America movie without Steve Rogers? And that's the question that's put to the test here, and the answer is yes, maybe. Is this even a Captain America movie, Really, when you think about it, if Steve Rogers was the lead in this movie, if Chris Evans as Steve Rogers was the lead of this movie and it was called Captain America Brave New World in the same plot, is it really any more a Captain America movie?
Speaker 1Irregardless of what's going on, it's kind of bizarre not because, like they don't have as solid of a hook for Falcon Captain America as I did with Steve Rogers, the man out of time, which is a great thing, you know. I mean that's that's kept. The falcon is not captain america, I don't care how many suits he puts on. You know what I mean. It's just not.
Speaker 2It's the suit changed in the movie without explanation.
Speaker 1Yeah, it did he like he was a little ripped up. So then he gets a new one out of his closet.
Speaker 2I like the white suit better. The blue suit's fine at the end, but the white suit kind of is very popping and bright and colorful. Yeah, I liked it.
Political Elements and Missed Opportunities
Speaker 1Yeah, I, I, I don't know man, it's just, it's just, it's a new character really, and it's, that's fine, it's fine, I thought he was good.
Speaker 2The other aspect. The other question, the other test is can Anthony Mackie carry a blockbuster field film as the lead? The answer is yes, he's the co-lead.
Speaker 1I liked him in the movie more than I thought I would, because I always liked him as Falcon Fine, but he never really made an impression for me. I can't even remember anything he did in Captain America 3, captain America, avengers 2.0.
Speaker 2Very little, and I just watched that movie for the first time since it came out. All I remember in that movie that he does is he gets blasted by Iron man after War Machine gets knocked out of the sky. He like stops.
Speaker 1Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2And he's like hey, is he OK? And Iron man just blasts him away.
Speaker 1That was kind of dope yeah.
Speaker 2One other thing that I wanted to ask you about is what you felt. I can't help but feel that this would have been a very different movie had the late william hurt still been alive to reprise his role as president ross as, yeah, a better actor. No offense to harrison ford. I think there's a different, tier level of acting here, and do you?
Speaker 1think okay, no go ahead.
Speaker 2I was gonna say I think Ross himself, Hurt would have been a much more compelling character. I don't think that he necessarily would have worked having his face on a CGI Red Hulk, though.
Speaker 1No, and I think you need a movie star to become a super Red Hulk. And I was surprised how well Harrison Ford worked and, by the way, I do think Harrison Ford is a great actor. I think it is.
Speaker 2Yes when he tried. I think it is yes when he tried.
Speaker 1Watch the movie Mosquito Coast and he's been propelled to sort of this superstardom because he was in Indiana Jones and Star Wars. So the thinking is put him in blockbusters, right. But he is a terrific actor when he tries. When he tries. When he tries, yeah, when he tries. When he's not like, I remember, like remember ender's game, the ender's game movie, and he was in it and just kind of whatever you know morning glory, where he plays a morning show.
Speaker 1Co-host no, I hate when they put him in those kind of like robert de niro, kind of like old guy roles, you know, grumpy, curmudgeon senior veteran newsman who gets relegated to the morning show with a peppy young aspiring anchor.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, I haven't seen that anytime they want to do. Harrison Ford is like grumpy old old hat, old head. You know I'm like no, but I thought he, I actually I thought he was good in this, I was. I was pleasantly surprised how much he was in it. Yeah, in this I was. I was pleasantly surprised how much he was in it. Yeah, um, um, even though a lot of.
Speaker 2It was him in a room, you know, but in multiple different rooms in multiple different rooms air force, one air force one the two scenes in that room, the bunker, yeah, bunker
Speaker 1him on the peloton on air force one yeah, yeah, he was in a few rooms in this, but no, I mean, I don't know when. I think Captain America, I really like the Winter Soldier movie a lot. I really like the First Avenger movie a lot. I think that's a great. They're both great. They do a lot of justice to Captain America and they evoke the two most salient time periods of the character, when he was most potent in comics, which were the forties and the late sixties. You know, in seventies when he mattered most, eighties and nineties, there were some good stories for Captain America, but it's just not. Not, as you know what I mean he wasn't, didn't resonate then really.
Speaker 2I still can't feel. I still can't help but feel we were cheated out of a third true Captain America movie because they did that civil war story which involved the entire way of the Marvel cannon and I know people love that movie. I'm mixed on it, I think it's, I think it's having rewatched it, I liked it more than I did when I first saw it. I was very sour when I first saw that movie but I think we were cheated out of having a true finale to Captain America, having a solo movie where we explore him as a character more so than just his dedication to Bucky, which is yeah, which is basically what the whole third movie is 100% and like I wanted.
Speaker 1My dream Captain America movie would have been Red Skull comes back and we have the serpent society. Like that's what I would love to see a Captain America where we get a cause. Iron man got his third movie, Thor got his Captain America really didn't. He got cheated out of it Right, which is too bad.
Speaker 2You know what this movie needed to make it better. They needed to bring back Miguel, the character, the villain from captain america, to death too soon yes, dude, miguel hell yeah dude, he's hiding out in his prison. Let's go and is red brown still alive? He could come back for a cameo dude put red brown in a movie and do a cpi.
Speaker 1Christopher lee, as miguel and I'm miguel the the secret uh, he's on the run. Christopher Lee as Miguel. Miguel the secret. He's on the run. Miguel is on the run, right, yeah, yes, that's great.
Speaker 2Great one, the greatest Captain America villain of all time, miguel.
Speaker 1The best Captain America movie of all time. Captain America 2. Too deaf, too soon. You know what I'm really ashamed. I haven't seen. I have not seen the 1990 Captain America movie with JD Salinger.
Speaker 2JD, salinger or whatever JD.
Speaker 1Salinger. Well, you know, it's his kid. Yeah, it's his kid. I'm dead ass the guy that plays Captain America, are you?
Speaker 2being serious.
Speaker 1No, I'm being dead serious. The guy who plays Captain America in the 90s movie was JD Salinger's son.
Speaker 2Oh, I did not realize that.
Speaker 1I did not realize that. I did not realize that I have not seen that movie either. I haven't either, but the costume looks good.
Speaker 2If we can remind the audience, last year we went over in agonizing and excruciating detail the two 1979 Captain America movies of which we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1This is a great show. Go back in the archives and find our old 70s superhero show. That was a great show.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1We're trying to do more shows like this, where we just see one movie and can just kind of hop on for a little bit, rather than watch four movies, which is kind of a tall order sometimes.
Speaker 2Oh, absolutely. Oh yeah, you are correct. Matt Salinger is the son of JD Salinger, author of the Catcher in the Rye. Very interesting, I did not know that little piece of trivia.
Speaker 1A one-hit wonder, JD Salinger. He's still alive Looks good.
Speaker 2JD Salinger's dead.
Speaker 1I know that I'm still alive.
Speaker 2Although JD Salinger did die only in 2010.
Speaker 1Is that true? Not that long ago Anyway?
Speaker 2final thoughts on this movie, not that we have to end it right now.
Speaker 1You were telling me before, you were like I'm going to re-watch the other three captain america movies, yeah, and I was like I was thinking about it because I do like those. But um, I was like, why bother? This is like a totally new thing.
Speaker 2This is like nothing it is, but for context. For context, I was just yeah, I binged them in one day with some friends, so I watched all three back to back.
Speaker 1Yeah, it took all day. Well, I could tell you, I got to roll soon because I have to go to a family dinner. But I will say to the audience there's going to be something very exciting coming up in the near future.
Speaker 2Is that right?
The Future of Captain America
Speaker 1I have some new videos that are going to come out, and then also, me and ryan are going to meet in real irl, in real life. I don't know if you guys know this, but ryan and I have never met in real life. We've had a two year long and maybe in change friendship on here as as just sort of people talking on the phone, and and we talk on the phone a lot, wouldn't you say, yeah, we do For sure. And now we're going to meet in real life. We're going to converge in Florida and we're going to go to Universal Studios. That's right, very excited. So I'm going to send Trembling Colors my location so you can track my phone, just in case anything happens. But no, we're going gonna have a good time. We're probably gonna make a little video or something commemorating. Yeah, we need to do that. Yeah, and it should be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2So now you've been to. You've been to universal before, but it's been many, many years, correct?
Speaker 1it's been so many years and you know what I should have dug up for this my photo of me as an eight-year-old with the guy dressed as Captain America.
Speaker 2Oh really, yes, they still have a character meet and greet for Captain America. Yeah, Dude.
Speaker 1I hope it's the same guy. I'd be like dude, like dude. It was amazing because Captain America as a kid and now my favorite superhero of all time.
Speaker 2Well, the Marvel Superhero Island has been virtually untouched by time. It exists almost exactly as it did in 1999 when the park opened. So that part is very cool, although I have to say the only thing that has changed for the character meet and greets that I've seen from walking around there over time is the character costumes look much worse than they did years ago.
Speaker 1They didn't look good back then either. Oh no, they looked a whole lot better back then.
Speaker 2They look even worse now.
Speaker 1Really Okay, yes, okay.
Speaker 2So we'll see what pops up. What characters are there.
Speaker 1You can get your photo.
Speaker 2Perfect brother, this is going to be so fun, we're going to get a nice photo with Rogue and Storm, you know.
Speaker 1Yeah, this guy said I always assumed you two knew each other in real life and just did this over video. Good chemistry.
Speaker 2Oh, thank you. Yes, no, we're different states.
Speaker 1They got rid of the Spider-Man ride.
Speaker 2No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1Okay, that was the coolest.
Speaker 2In Japan, I believe, they got rid of the Spider-Man ride at Universal, but in Florida everything is still there.
Speaker 1So is Boss Baby Japanese? Is he this guy that's trying to steal adamantium out of my child's mouth? Perhaps, Come on, man. Yeah, any closing thoughts? Not really, dude, I'm sorry, I didn't have a whole lot.
Speaker 2No, we covered everything in the movie. I enjoyed the movie. I would recommend it to people. I think it's a fun time. It's not anything profound or spectacular.
Speaker 1There was a grandma there with three kids. They all loved it. They thought it was great, even though as a kid's movie there's a lot of shooting people and killing people, which I was kind of surprised by. That's okay. No, I'm thinking this as grandma, and there's a scene where the scary brain guy goes into just someone's like suburban home and just marks them like in their kitchen and then their dead bodies are back.
Speaker 2I was like it's not meant for like little kids, as it's never supposed to be.
Speaker 2That's the problem, though, with the a lot of the mentality and the executive training and all that is. They try to make these movies for four-year-olds or five-year-olds and said they're not meant to be, nor should they be, for, you know, anyone with a phd level education as well. It's, it's a comic book movie. It's meant it's. The ideal audience should be people, you know, teenagers, people in their pre-teens to 20s. Okay, that's like the sweet spot for these movies, and it should be able to be enjoyed by older people, that it doesn't insult your intelligence, there's not a preponderance of you know, inane body humor, jokes or anything like that, and nor should it be too complex either.
Speaker 1Okay, there's a sweet spot in the middle I thought the movie ended well, uh, good closure for harrison ford, but there was a little bit of a part of me that was like man. I wish he would have talked his way out of it and still been the president, and then that could be a source of future drama.
Speaker 2That's also part of the Red Hulk. That differentiates him from the Green Hulk is that the Red Hulk retains all of his intelligence and cogency and is able to speak. In the comics he's a fully functioning high iq individual. In the comics he's a. He's a diabolical mastermind. That's why he's a villain. So he that's what did all.
Speaker 2But they didn't do that in the movie. No, we didn't talk about that at all. I don't know if you have a time or not, but how we talked about it on the phone is how important and how cool it was when the Red Hulk came onto the scene in the comic books and this was, I believe, like 2009, 2010,. Around that time I was not reading the Incredible Hulk. I've never been a avid Hulk reader in terms of, like, modern continuity. Modern comics, you know, read the old ones, the Kirby, stan Lee stuff from the 60s and then into the Peter David stuff is really good and some of the more vintage stuff in between. But when Jeff Loeb and Ed McGuinness came on to the Hulk and did the Red Hulk saga and we have Ed McGuinness drawing the Hulk and I don't know if you're familiar with his art style, but it's a very yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2Yeah, he came over from DC. He had done with jeff loeb, he had done the batman superman comic and he'd done the public enemies, which is like a big which they adapted into an animated movie, and he came on specifically to draw the whole and it was incredible. It was a huge phenomenon for a while and this whole mystery about who is the red hall, what is he planning, what's going on. It became like a big event style comic where now I'm buying incredible hulk and hulk which they launched a second title, or I've never in my life bought incredible hulk on a monthly basis, so it's you don't tell me.
Speaker 1I want to read it actually. Shoot me over what I need.
Speaker 2I actually like to go back and reread it myself, because it's been it's been quite a while yeah, shoot me over like what, uh, what, you know what?
Speaker 1how?
Speaker 2to start, there's a. There's some collected editions that will probably have what you need I really?
Upcoming Universal Studios Meetup
Speaker 1I like ed mcginnis. It reminds me of a little bit like herb trimpy when he draws the hulk yeah, and of course that's one of the definitive hulk artists yes, very much so hulk does not get his due.
Speaker 2I think. I think it's a. It's a character that was very popular years ago, mostly because of the pop culture phenomenon that was the Bill Bixby Lou Ferrigno show that kind of pushed him to the forefront of the comic book characters that were known to the public. But in recent years the cachet has gone down and that's kind of sad and I don't think they really know what to do with them in the movies and this, this mcu.
Speaker 1Yeah, we have because they've evolved them too much so you can't do any original mad running around, hulk stuff like so there's just nothing really to do with him.
Speaker 2He's just like a big, strong guy now and I think part of that is Mark Ruffalo has ruined the character to a certain extent by trying to make it funny and trying to make it clever in a bad way.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think they need to do something with him. That's like maybe a little more grounded. I would be fine seeing him in his own movie. I wouldn't mind. I think that'd be cool.
Speaker 2Because the Hulk is such a tragic character. That's the beauty of the Incredible Hulk and that's why I? Think the Incredible Hulk 2008 movie is better than its reputation is that it's a very dark movie, it's a very somber exercise and it evokes the Bixby-Ferigno show more than it does the comics it's. It's definitely channeling that and it's so refreshing in that regard which we like the bixby show oh yeah, I love it. Love it, it's such a, it's such a great thing yeah, and I like this.
Speaker 1You know hiding out in south america and that foot chase through the you know buildings, it's all. It's all good, it's all good and everything about trying to control the Hulk and like that's all great, that's all great stuff. Ed Norton was perfect casting. He's very good.
Speaker 2He was very good yeah. You want somebody really skinny that doesn't look assuming or menacing. He perfectly embodied that in that movie, better than Eric Bana, I think.
Speaker 1I don't think Would Edward Norton. Even if they didn't fire him before the Avengers, he would not have made it this far. He would not be in eight of these fucking movies.
Speaker 2He would not be in ten movies. Yeah, he's too big a star.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly. Okay, brother, it's been fun. So you didn't answer the question, I guess Did you like the movie Not going to End stream what, no, do I like the movie? Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2Okay, two and a half, two and a half stars.
Speaker 1Two and a half stars. Let's say that Two and a half stars I would give it three, because there were things I liked about it. I liked Falcon or Anthony Mack. I thought he really rose to the occasion, did a nice job, there's always room for improvement with all these movies.
Speaker 2I would give this one three stars. I give it a pass. I generally tend to give passes to the movies that most of the regular audience doesn't like. I thought Black Widow was not that bad of a movie and people seemed to hate it.
Speaker 1I thought it was okay.
Speaker 2I thought it was okay too. All of these movies degenerate in the end, I know.
Speaker 1High hopes for.
Speaker 2Fantastic Four. Zero expectations for Thunderbolts, and we'll see what's next.
Speaker 1Superman. What would be our next movie? We had some ideas, people. We got some ideas for some shows.
Speaker 2I personally want to do the Looney Tunes movie the Day the Earth Blew.
Speaker 1Oh yeah.
Speaker 2Let's do that one.
Speaker 1Let's do it and send me some recommendations for cartoons to watch, because I have Max or whatever. I think they're all on there. I love Looney Tunes, but I'm not as big of a savant on it as you are.
Speaker 2Yes, that's like bread and butter for me.
Speaker 1All right for me, boom. All right dude. Okay, good chat, uh, hang, hang. After I ended, I gotta tell you something. Okay, all right, see you guys.
