A quick warning that today's episode does include discussions on sensitive topics , including thoughts of wanting to harm others or ourselves . If this sounds like it is not for you , then please listen to another episode . If you or someone you know is either preparing to have a baby or has just had a baby , then today's episode is an important one . I have with me licensed mental health therapist , carol Ann Murphy . Carol Ann will tell us just how common it is for women to struggle with mental health challenges in the first 12 months after giving birth . It will probably surprise you . It surprised me . She'll also talk to us about resources that are available and she'll let us know what we can do if we are a friend or a family member of a mom who is struggling . Stay tuned . I know you'll find this episode helpful . Welcome to your Zen Friend . I'm your host , lauren Wolfe . On this podcast , I will share wisdom from working as a licensed professional counselor for more than 20 years . Using storytelling and lighthearted humor . Each episode will explore themes on personal growth , including tips and strategies to boost mental wellness and overall well-being . If you're a perfectly imperfect human like me , who's always striving to do better and feel better , then this podcast is for you . Let's get started . Welcome , zen Friend . I hope wherever you are , you are doing well . I am so happy to have with me today my friend Carol Ann Murphy . Carol Ann is a licensed mental health therapist . She works here in Connecticut , pretty close to where I work .
Speaker 1I'll tell you a fun story of how I met Carol Ann . About a year ago I was at a board and brush event with some friends . What that is is a place where you can go and they have these great signs and trays and decor items that you can make out of wood . You typically start with a bare piece of wood and are using different stencils and painting , as well as sometimes even doing a little hammering and putting hooks into the back and that sort of thing . When you do this type of event , there is a wonderful , helpful instructor . Carol Ann was one of those .
Speaker 1I am typically pretty challenged when it comes to being arts and crafty . I was getting a lot of help from Carol Ann . I also seem to have a knack that when I do events like this , I choose the hardest possible thing there is to create . I had done that once again . I chose a pretty challenging item . It was ginormous and took a lot of time I was pretty much in a cold sweat for most of it . Carol Ann was fantastic , warm and so funny and friendly . As we got to talking I discovered that she is a licensed professional counselor , just like I am . I gave her my business card and we stayed in touch . I've gotten together with her probably about five or six times in the last year and just really like Carol Ann so much and I'm grateful to now call her a friend .
Speaker 1One thing that I am finding so inspiring with Carol Ann is that she has been working on a program for moms who have recently given birth to really help them to keep their mental health in a good place and to help them if they are struggling with mental health challenges postpartum , as we will discuss , I had some postpartum mental health issues after having both of my children . When they were babies I didn't really have too many resources . If there were resources available , I didn't know about them and I feel really sad thinking back to some of the challenges I experienced and realizing that if I had just had some support , it would have been so much easier . So I am so grateful to Carol Ann with the beautiful work that she is doing and the program that she has created to help new moms . When you help a mom , you are helping that entire family , so I'm excited to have Carol Ann here talking about her program , but she also gives some really great , helpful information on what it looks like when moms are struggling after giving birth , struggling with their mental health , and it's different than what we often think . We also talk about how family members , partners and friends can help and support a mom who is in need . So I really hope that this is an episode that you will share with someone that you think could benefit from it . If you have any new moms in your lives or someone who's about to be a new mom , I think it would be a great episode to share with her , and also maybe with her family , with her mother or mother-in-law , or husband or wife or sister or anyone else in that family that is going to be the support person or a support person . I think it's so important that we give new moms and new families support . It's really a challenging time during many of our lives when we first have that newborn , that little , teeny , tiny person who can cause so much chaos in our lives .
Speaker 1So let's take a short break and then we'll get right to my interview with Carol Ann . Hey there , zen friend , I so appreciate you listening to this podcast and if I could ask two favors of you , please if you would take a moment to rate and review this podcast on either Apple or Spotify . That helps other Zen friends to find us and that will help me to grow the show and bring on fabulous guests . If you could also share it with a friend , that is another really effective way of helping the show to grow . It is my mission to help parents to fill their own cup and boost their own mental health and overall well-being , so I very much appreciate your help .
Now let's get back to our show . Welcome , Carol Ann . So happy to have you on the show . Thanks for having me . My pleasure . So I've told listeners a little bit about you , but I just want to say I'm so excited to have you here . I met you about a year ago at a board and brush event , so that was my best pickup of the year . I don't typically pick up mom therapists places , but I'm glad that you and I got to chatting and it's been really nice to see you over the past year and talk all things that therapists like to talk , so that's been really fun . Now , while we're here to discuss postpartum depression , I also just want to hear a little bit about you , carol Ann , and what got you into really helping women with postpartum depression .
Speaker 2Sure . So I am a mental health therapist and I work in a private practice right now . I work with all different types of populations with the mental health field , but I really specialize in perinatal mood and anxiety disorders and a lot of people , you know , don't fully understand what that means and it's just like pregnancy and postpartum . I got into this field with the postpartum aspect because when I was pregnant with my first daughter , piper , my husband and I decided not to find out the gender of the baby until we had her and we were really hoping for a boy , found out we were having a girl and the only reason I really mentioned that is because I think gender disappointment is something that's not talked about enough as well .
Speaker 2You know , of course , we're so grateful to have a healthy , beautiful baby and and I love her to death . Right now Sometimes she's almost five , so she could be a handful but I think gender disappointment is something worth mentioning . Anyways , I don't want people to feel like they're a bad mom or dad because they were really hoping for one gender and got another gender , or they had in their head what their family was going to look like and it kind of took a different direction . So , anyways , she was born and it wasn't this amazing beautiful rainbows and butterfly experience , you know , like you hear about and see in the movies and stuff . Like the baby is born and put in your arms and you're like , oh , like you know , you know , so it wasn't like that for me at all . It was like this like alien creature , like like weird looking , you know , gets put on my chest and I'm like , oh , okay , this is our daughter .
Speaker 2I think that's important to highlight as well . Looking back , there were definitely some physical signs red flags , if you will that I was going through something of my own journey and didn't have any pictures of her or with her . I'm sorry , when she was like in her early newborn stages , like I just didn't want people to be taking those pictures . I kept myself super busy away from her . So I didn't spend much time with her at all , unless it was like nighttime or feeding or whatever .
Speaker 2And I went back to work after four weeks postpartum .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh , I just like , I was just like ready to go back . I my loss of independence as a very independent person previously and trying to wrap my head around the fact that I had this like tiny thing that was dependent on me was really hard . So I was trying very hard to grasp that part of me previously of being this independent working wife that didn't need anything or depend on anybody else , but now something was depending on me . So those were kind of like the obvious ones . The things you couldn't see were like my intrusive thoughts . So that's an obvious , but that's kind of what was going on for me at the time .
Speaker 1Yeah , oh , carol Ann , thank you so much for sharing so honestly . I have not heard anyone ever talk about the fact that you have absolutely a right to feel disappointment if your child is a different gender than what you hoped for or than what you thought you were having . And that totally makes sense , because I think we do , just like you said , have these stories in our head of like here's what my family will look like , here's what my parenting journey will look like , like it very often looks different , but we don't validate that . That's okay to feel , whatever you feel about that .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , absolutely yeah , and I feel like by experience with it I preach when I talk to people about this . I truly believe , if I wasn't a therapist , that I wouldn't be on this earth today . And I say that because , as scary as the thoughts were that I was having , I knew something was wrong with me because , like , I knew that these thoughts weren't in line with who I was as a person , and I think that that's a really hard separation for people to make when they're in the thick of it . So , like being a therapist , I knew I needed to reach out for help . I knew that there was support available for me that would be non-judgmental and be extremely productive . I knew that I had supportive family members . My husband was amazing during this time . I had a medication prescriber for mental health . I found an amazing therapist and not everybody knows that , and so that's kind of to circle back . That's what brought me here to the perinatal population , because not everyone knows , and I wish I could scream that to the world , absolutely , oh , carol Ann .
Speaker 1I'm so glad that you're here and I'm so glad that you had that support when you needed it . My hope is , with today's episode , that we can really give listeners a greater understanding of what really postpartum depression and anxiety and some of the different mental health challenges that arise for women postpartum look like , and also , of course , what some of the resources are that they can access to help them . Can you say a little more , carol Ann , about intrusive thoughts , because some of our listeners , I'm thinking , just might not know what that means or looks like .
Speaker 2Sure , yeah . So I , as a therapist , I define intrusive thoughts as something that's kind of , you know , a thought that you have , that you you can recognize that's not your own . So , for example , trying to think of something that's not triggering . So I can have an intrusive thought that if I don't do a said task that I don't know , I can't think of a good example without it being too triggering .
Speaker 1Yeah , I you know what . I think it's okay to be triggering . I can give a trigger warning at the beginning .
Speaker 1Okay , and you know I'll . I'll just share too , carol , and that I had postpartum you know anxiety and depression with after both of my children were born , and I'll just
share this . I remember holding my daughter who just you know , really wasn't sleeping , wouldn't take a bottle . I was the only one caring for her . I didn't have any family that lived close by and I remember holding her and and standing on the patio and my husband was mowing the lawn and I was so angry at him for having the autonomy to ride the lawnmower by himself Because she was in a sling on me and just was never would cry if I put her down . And I remember thinking what if I just dropped her over the edge of this patio right now , and this would all be over , and that frightened me very much . Having that thought , um right , so I think , would that be an example ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , that's definitely an example right , because I didn't want to do that . That wasn't something .
Speaker 2I really wanted to , absolutely scared me .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . And also I think sometimes with intrusive thoughts they get stuck in our brain and just kind of are on replay and we it's a right . It's essentially like a thought we don't want , right , a thought that doesn't feel connected to us and truly what we want , I desire .
Speaker 2Yes , absolutely , yeah , absolutely . I think common ones , you know , when it comes to to postpartum and during a perinatal period is , you know , either harm to yourself or harm to the baby . Okay , generally speaking . So that's when we talk about intrusive thoughts with perinatal mood and anxiety disorders . That's kind of the focus for a lot of Mm-hmm . You see , the most common intrusive thoughts based around that's helpful , okay so , and like you said , it's Separating from . This is not really how I feel or think , like I know that thought does not define who I am , you know absolutely .
Speaker 1So it's and it's so interesting . So for me , I had only just gotten my degree as a therapist , like a year , less than a year after or before having my daughter , so I hadn't worked in the field very long and I really Didn't understand what was happening . So my you know , what I remember is that I got from my gynecologist before I gave birth Like a pamphlet , and I think there was like a pamphlet from the hospital and a brief mention of postpartum depression .
Speaker 1My understanding at the time and of course this was nearly 21 years ago , so I will talk about it I hope our medical field is doing better . I think they're not doing a lot better , but we'll talk about that my understanding was that I would feel sad , I would not be caring for my daughter if I had postpartum depression , and instead I really felt angry and agitated and I Cared very much for her .
Speaker 1I took care of all of her needs and I neglected most of my own , which I think was a lot of the anger and so , like I remember , if I sang show tunes to her she would be happy she had colic , right if I say show tunes , if I nursed her endlessly and so I would do those things even though inside I was really struggling . So I did not realize that I was having any kind of postpartum depression , I think , until having my son and then later realizing that's what was happening with him , that I realized , oh , this is what was happening with her . So I wonder , can you talk about just some of the common signs that a woman is struggling with Any kind of mental health challenge postpartum depression , postpartum anxiety because it doesn't always look like straight-up sadness or not wanting to care for the child ?
Speaker 2Sure , yeah , absolutely . And just to kind of circle back real quick , my diagnosis was postpartum OCD . So I there's . You know this postpartum depression , or postpartum mood and anxiety , is a very Like wide range of different mood and anxiety disorders , and I think you know postpartum mental health isn't talked about enough . No , however , like there's a huge scale .
Speaker 1Yes , I'm just thinking here . I am as a therapist and this is not my specialty . However , carol Ann , I have never heard it called that . I've only heard of it referred to as postpartum depression .
Speaker 2So , thank you , I think right there , that is educational right , and that's perfect example , right , you're in this field , you're submerged in this stuff and you still didn't know about it , so you know . That's even for a reason we need to be sharing and talking about this , yes , but so anyways . I mean , postpartum depression is the most common of the mood and anxiety disorders , so the common signs are very similar to those of non postpartum depression , like feelings of hopelessness , helplessness , worthlessness , guilt , shame , that anger , irritability that you had mentioned , the difficulty concentrating , difficulty , connecting with the baby or bonding with the baby , not finding joy and activities that you used to , all those kinds of things you associate with regular depression , regardless of having a child .
Speaker 1And what makes it postpartum is obviously , as of right now , it's a 12 month period after her giving birth , yes , and thank you for mentioning that to Carol Ann , because I also think that people typically think it will happen within the first few weeks , and I think it's often that it happens Six months or more out .
Speaker 2Yeah , so there's baby blues and then there's postpartum depression and baby blues is . I think more people have heard about baby blues , okay , and a lot of times the pressure gets swept under the rug because I was just baby blues but , the . The main difference between baby blues and postpartum depression is the timing . So Baby blues is the first two weeks post Delivery , okay , and then anything
after that . If you're still experiencing those symptoms , it's more it could be more of a depression aspect .
Speaker 1Got it ? Are there any you know art ? Is there research being done or has them there been research that Gives any indication of some of the things that lead women to experience this ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely so . I mean there is a hundred , but the most common , you know , is having a family history or personal history of mental health or a family history of postpartum . You know I had postpartum . If your sister had postpartum Issues like that's definitely a huge factor , just like it is with any other mental health disorder . If having an infant in the NICU can definitely lead to that , having a lack of a support system whether that be , you know , friends , family , professional support , extra having extreme stress , you know , outside of the common stressors on if you're moving , maybe if you're in a Unsteady relationship , if you're financial stressors , you know anything like that . Infertility treatment , mothers and multiples oh wow , complications during pregnancy and postpartum those are all like the main risk factors Wow there's a lot .
Speaker 1There's a lot of different risk factors .
Speaker 2Yeah , there's a lot , there really is a lot .
Speaker 1And then you know I think too that very often we're living in isolation . I have a client who is from Eastern Europe and she talks about how there's such community there and how you walk outside your door and you know the neighbors know you and you typically have extended family that is living very close by and people are helping one another out . And I think for many of us and I know this was my situation I didn't have any family member that lived close by . So when sleep deprivation got really bad and when I was the only person that could feed my infant and my husband would leave and go to work or sometimes travel , and I was just in complete isolation .
Speaker 2I feel like that was really a recipe for having some mental health challenges too , absolutely , absolutely , yeah , because you're feeling that isolation , you're feeling that hopelessness , you know , and it's you feel like you can't get a break mentally or physically , right 100% , and I felt pressure of like it's all on me , you know , and some of that was self-imposed , Some of that was a story I was telling myself .
Speaker 1But it's also hard to be rational and make good choices when you're totally sleep deprived , Right . So you know I say that now with love and compassion to myself that I couldn't see a way out at times , but that was just because I think I was so very sleep deprived . It's hard to think rationally when you don't have a break and you're not getting rest , Right , right absolutely , that's a key component . Yeah , so any idea , Carol Ann , with statistics of how many women have these struggles after giving birth ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so one in five moms suffer from postpartum depression . Oh , wow .
Speaker 2I believe that statistic is actually higher because this is underdiagnosed , this is not talked about enough . I'm not sure exactly what I would say the real statistic would be , but I think that that it is like you said oh wow , when I think about statistics , I'm like one in five . So if I'm sitting in a room with five women , one of us is going to or has experienced this , but I think that it's more common than that , unfortunately . But and 10% of women experience depression during pregnancy , so that's another part that's not talked about enough is like oh , you should be so grateful you're pregnant , yes , so at least you got pregnant , or whatever it is . And that's not really what's going on . It's just their own mental health that's getting in the way of that .
Speaker 1Wow , oh , I had no idea yeah .
Speaker 2I think it's important to note too that there can be postpartum depression in the father or the non-birth in parent , and the statistic for that is one in 10 fathers . Wow , and that's something that goes . Yeah , that's something that goes under the radar . I mean , that's the whole theme of all this , right .
Speaker 2As well , and then the other really big thing that I think is important to mention as far as the statistics of this is that just because you had or experienced an mood or anxiety disorder in the perinatal period with your first born does not mean that you're going to have it for your second . If you choose to have another child , there are preventative measures to take in order to have a less intense experience with your mental health .
Speaker 1Oh wow , I had no idea so .
Speaker 2I think that's really important to highlight .
Speaker 1Absolutely . Can you just share , Carol Ann , what some of those preventative measures might look like ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely so . If you're going to have your second child , there's medication that can be taken and that's the route you're going . There's plenty of safe medication for you and baby that can , either if you're experiencing symptoms at the time or as a preventative measure . There's also having a conversation with your OB is really important about all of this , because as soon as the baby is delivered , you can start taking medication as well if you choose not to take medications during pregnancy . So I know postpartum psychosis has been like a hot topic in the news every once in a while , unfortunately .
Speaker 2And so I know women who have postpartum psychosis for their first born don't want to have a sex because of their fear of that first experience . But having conversation with your OB , knowing exactly what you know and postpartum psychosis , is on the extreme . But this is the same for depressure , anxiety , and as soon as you deliver , like I said , they can say okay , we're going to start you on Zoloft or we're going to start you on whatever the medication is , just to be proactive , and then also just kind of like knowing , sometimes going into the second pregnancy or second pregnancy or second baby .
Speaker 2You know more , you're more aware . It's not more of that unknown factor .
Speaker 1You're a little more prepared .
Speaker 2You're a little more educated on certain things , so I think that there's that as well . Okay , this is what I didn't have for my first pregnancy this is what I really lacked . This is what I really needed . This is what I learned from that and I'm going to implement that in my second .
Speaker 2Like I know that , like I had a really hard time asking for help in my first pregnancy- so that like it's really important for me to do in my second even if I don't want to ask for help like I really need to ask my husband to you know , do this so that I can take a good nap or you know , I really need to ask my mother-in-law if she can just do the dishes while I zone out on Netflix for half an hour you know .
Speaker 1Yeah , absolutely , that makes sense and fortunately I was a little slow on the uptake . But for other people I think this totally makes sense and especially with increased awareness , to really understand this is what I was experiencing . This increases my risk factors . For next time , how can I be proactive ? That could be something that you work with a therapist to put a plan in place and have you know , maybe , what sort I'm trying to look for , like know what your options are if you start feeling like you're struggling . So that brings me to the question , carol Anne , of what options are for moms .
Speaker 1I remember with my son I finally figured out what was happening . He was about 10 months old and it didn't really start with him until later on . I think he was a terrible sleeper , like so horrible . That child loved him , loved him to this day , but he it was like I could have been a prisoner of war because you didn't know if you'd get 10 minutes , maybe you'd get three hours , you probably weren't getting more than four hours , but it was just never consistent and I was just so totally strung out and I remember I had worked with the midwives that are local here in Fairfield County and had him at a birthing center .
Speaker 1So I called them and the midwife said to me well , you can go on medication , and I was seeing a therapist at this time too . So she said you can go on medication or you could work with a naturopath . Those were the two options she gave me , and he was also being breastfed and wouldn't take solid foods at all . Oh my gosh . So I said okay , I guess I'll try with a naturopath , because back then at least all of the medications were a bit of a question mark as far as safety went . But I sure hope you're going to tell me , carol Ann , that there are some better options nowadays . What are the options ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely Well , and I think , not to minimize your experience , but to highlight it like there are , you know , having medications always an option now . And I totally understand and support people who don't want that route . I think doing more natural a naturopath , like food , your wellness , self-care , all of that kind of thing is a great route too , but a big nonprofit organization I want to highlight is Postpartum Support International and you can Google them .
Speaker 2They have a fantastic website where , under the menu bar , if you hit Get Help , they have a provider directory where professionals , doulas , lactation consultants , therapists , support groups are all under this Get Help section and they all have told PSI that they want to be in their directory because they specialize in this topic . Psi also has free , free , free , free , virtual support groups on an international level and they cover so many areas . They cover military moms , they cover fathers who are experiencing this , they cover women of color and different areas with that topic . They cover NICU parents , they cover loss . They cover all a huge , huge section of what goes on . There's just so many factors into this right , like we had mentioned before , and PSI has these great support groups Definitely worth checking out , even if you're pregnant , and just to know what's available . And then there's more on a more local level Most of the states in the United States I wish I knew the number off the top of my head , but I don't Most there's state chapters in most of the United States for PSI , so we are in Connecticut .
Speaker 2Connecticut has a state level chapter and they have a website as well with Connecticut local support groups .
Speaker 1Awesome .
Speaker 2And some of them are virtual , some of them are in person , but they're all listed as to what those options are .
Speaker 1Great . Thank you so much for sharing those , carol , and I'll make sure that we do have those links in the show notes to make it really nice and easy for listeners to find those . Yeah , thank you , of course . So I am really excited that you have created a phenomenal program to offer support to women who are struggling with mental health challenges postpartum and last time we met , you were telling me about it and it's so exciting , carol Ann . So I would love for you to tell our listeners about the program that you will be offering .
Speaker 2Sure , oh , thanks so much . I'm so excited about it too .
So I have created a course and it's basically talking about what we're talking about , but more in depth . So you know , like I'm saying , there's so many levels , there's , so there's such a . There's so many subtypes to all of this and in my course I really go over that and what all of the mood and anxiety disorders are for perinatal period , and I go over coping skills . I go over like discussions to have with your partner , I go over , you know , just anything that I think is important for this population to know about .
Speaker 2The course also includes a online community , so it's its own app . It's not Facebook or anything , because I know some people are on Facebook , but it's its own community , where there are a bunch of mommas on there pregnant , seasoned mommas , new mommas and there's resources on there . There's tips and tricks , there's recipes like easy freezer meal , nuts recipes , crock-pot recipes , podcast lessons that are helpful for them , book recommendations , all this stuff . So just this community that comes with the course . I'm going to be offering it as a self-paced on-demand option as well as a live virtual option . So people can you know if their schedules don't align with what my hours will be for the live virtual sessions . They can do it at their own , watch it with their non-briefing partner , whatever is best for their situation .
Speaker 1Oh , that's so cool . Asynchronous , as the college kids would say . Right , yeah , I work with a lot of college kids lately . That's so exciting , carol Ann . And when will this program be available ? Or is it available yet ?
Speaker 2Right now it's not available on line . In the virtual option I am doing like a pilot group in Brookfield through the Parks and Rec Department , I will be teaching live in person . What I really like about that and hopefully it may grow to be that more just kind of depends on some other logistics . But you know , what's great about being in a community with other people is that the feedback you get from them too . So , like this mom , I may ask a question during the course and it's something you didn't think about or something you wanted to ask but didn't feel comfortable asking , or whatever , and just like the support and guidance from other moms in the group . So you know , I think it will be really fun and exciting to do this for the first time .
Speaker 2And it starts February 3rd . It's Saturdays from nine to 10 . Awesome , and it's eight weeks , so my course is eight weeks long . It goes over all this . Oh , and I forgot to mention too with all of this , you obviously got a plethora of resources Awesome . So you got a workbook , and it has different like self care planning , identifying your supports and how to identify supports , affirmations , challenging negative thoughts , a habit tracker and what I think is important for you to have during your postpartum experience , and then a bunch of resources as well .
Speaker 1Oh my gosh , Caroline , you're making me wish I could go back in time and do this over again with your resources .
Speaker 1I think it would be such a game changer , yeah , yeah , such a great offering . I'm excited , Thank you . Yeah , and I think , too , that what's beautiful just like you're saying this is the beautiful part of group work is that someone asks a question that maybe you didn't think about . Or someone says something like you know how you and I were sharing personal aspects of our own journey . Like , if you're in a group and someone says , like I had this horrible , intrusive thought about hurting my child and you know here's what it was , someone else might be thinking , oh , thank God it's not just me , because I was feeling like a monster that I had this thought .
Speaker 1But look , this other woman seems like a nice , rational woman who had this thought too . So it can really take the shame out of what people are experiencing .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely .
Speaker 1So are there spots available right now , if people are listening , in January or early February of 2024 ?
Speaker 2Yes , there are . As of right now , there are spots available for that live in person training and so they'd have to be in or near Fairfield County , connecticut too .
Speaker 1But I'm understanding from you that soon you will have your program available that will be accessible to anyone anywhere . Is that correct ? Yes , oh , that's so exciting . I was just going to ask if you would give me your information so that people can reach out to you if they want to look into joining that program .
Speaker 2Yeah . So if you go to my website , it's spilled milkinfo Awesome . I have a bunch of information on my website as well . I have like Mama favorites for like what helps the pregnancy and baby favorites . That's a side note , but also there's a the work with me tab . There's mama's mind Matters is the name of the group and there's a waitlist . So if you just click on the learn for the waitlist , you will be notified as soon as Different options become available if you're interested .
Speaker 1Oh , that's awesome and I love , I love all the names . They're fantastic . Yes , absolutely , caroline . I think that what you're offering is so needed and will help so many people . One last question for you , carol , and if there's someone listening who has a friend or a family member who they think might be having some postpartum Struggles with mental health , what are some ways that they might offer to support them ?
Speaker 2Oh , such a good question and I , you know , I think that that's . I'm glad you asked that . So I think a big thing is just sit with the mom , be with the mom , show her that you're there for her to , not just the baby and I think that that's something we do often is like , oh my gosh , the baby , the baby , the baby and we like mom kind of gets pushed to the side or just like assumed that everything's fine with the mom , but she just like sit there and be with her in the moment , regardless of what that looks like , and Ask her how are you doing ? You know , and really like engage , put the phone down , turn the TV off , work up a tea , like let's talk about you .
Speaker 2I think also like a more like proactive approach would be like ask what you can do around the house wash the dishes , offer to take the baby so mom can take a shower , taking a nap . Less invasive , bring a meal over , buy an Uber eats or door-dash gift card for them so they don't have to worry about the meal that day . You know anything that kind of like that that says like hey , I'm here and I'm supporting you . Let me know if you ever need anything and let that be a real statement . You know , I think a lot of times we say like oh , let me know if you need anything , and then like know that they're probably not Right .
Speaker 1See , ya , yeah , right , like , make sure that they know that that's true , yeah , that you really mean it . Oh , I think those are great ideas and I was having flashbacks that are bringing tears to my eyes of people who did show up in those ways . I'm thinking of my girlfriend who I went to her house my daughter was too , my son was an infant and he was just Crying constantly and she just held him and walked and rocked him like , held him on his belly Right . He was so little , like basically from her Hand to like her elbow , and just was kind of gently rocking him back and forth and I got to sit without , you know , being the one pacing and it was Right that was that you know was maybe small , but yet huge , huge , beautiful , and she made me food , yeah .
Speaker 1So any of those ideas are so great , carol , and thank you for being here . Thank you for all of the beautiful work that you're doing . Oh , thank you , it's so Needed . I hope that our listeners will share this episode with anyone that they think could benefit , and definitely share your program Information as well .
Speaker 2Thank you so much for having me . I appreciate it .
Speaker 1My pleasure . I so appreciate Carol Ann being here today and I am so inspired by the work that she's doing . I'll make sure that I have all of the links Carol Ann mentioned in our show notes so that you can find any resources that might be helpful . A reminder that a drop of Zen , a short guided meditation , comes out every Friday , so please go ahead and follow the podcast on the podcast app where you're listening and you'll have that automatically downloaded to your app . A great big thank you to Suzanne , as always , our amazing editor , and until next time , friend , I hope you'll take some time today and every day to do something kind for yourself . Ooh , you're still there . I'm so glad you are , because maybe you've got time for another podcast and I've got just the podcast for you .
Speaker 1My friend , ann Coleman , who is an attorney turned parent educator , has a fantastic podcast . It's called Speaking of Teens , and she gets into it . Moodyness , internet porn , vaping , mean girls lying , emotional meltdowns sneaking out , anxiety , depression , school refusal the list goes on . If you're a parent of a teen or a tween , chances are you've dealt with at least some of those issues . Well , ann has dealt with it too , and she is super candid in talking about her own challenges when she was raising her now young adult son . She tells you what she did and what she wishes she did instead . She also has fantastic guest episodes , so check it out . Ann drops a new episode two times a week and I think you'll love her podcast as much as I do . Go to your podcast app wherever you listen to podcasts and search for Speaking of Teens with Ann Coleman , and I guarantee you'll get some great , research-based tips and strategies that will make parenting at least a little bit easier .