From Ideas to Action with Carolyn Hearn - The Long Game - Ep. #87

Most people don't have a knowledge problem. They have an action problem.

In this episode of The Long Game Podcast, Ryan sits down with Carolyn Hearn, a Dispositions Manager at Moss Home Solutions, a real estate wholesaling company based in Rhode Island, to talk about what it actually looks like to move from idea to action at 23 years old.

Carolyn has been with Moss Home Solutions since she was 19, studying real estate at Penn State while building real-world experience every summer. Now full-time in dispositions and on her second house flip, she moves before she has every answer and figures it out on the way.

Ryan and Carolyn also dig into analysis paralysis, the case for building a team before you feel ready, and what the nature versus nurture question actually looks like for two entrepreneurs who both learned the game from their dads.

What You'll Learn:

• Why taking imperfect action beats waiting for the perfect plan, and what it actually costs to learn on a live deal
• How to use proximity to people who are further along as a shortcut that no book can replicate
• Why the advice "swim with the river" beats pushing yourself into a mold that doesn't fit
• What it really looks like to build a team from scratch, including how Ryan onboarded his marketing manager with a whiteboard instead of an SOP
• The difference between doing everything yourself to build competence and doing everything yourself out of habit
• Why gratitude and endurance work together as a mental framework for entrepreneurs at every level
• How to know if your goal is big enough: if it doesn't make you smile when you say it out loud, set a bigger one

If you're early in your entrepreneurial journey and still waiting until you know enough to start, this episode will show you what it looks like to build confidence through action instead.

Interested in connecting?

GUEST
Carolyn Hearn
Dispositions Manager, Moss Home Solutions 
carolyn@mosshomesolutions.com | https://mosshomesolutions.com
Instagram: @carolyn.real.estate 
YouTube: @carolynhearn6239

HOST
Ryan Richards | Branch Manager, Northpoint Mortgage | NMLS 1987735
rrichards@trynorthpoint.com | www.financewithteamrichards.com 
204 Turnpike Rd, Westborough, MA 01581
Licensed in MA, CT, FL, NC, NH, PA, RI, ME, TN

Follow us on Instagram @financewithteamrichards @the.longgamepodcast

#TheLongGamePodcast #FinanceWithTeamRichards

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
02:04 Her Real Estate Path
03:55 Wholesaling Explained
05:22 Power of Proximity
07:39 Who Not How Mindset
09:48 Building a Team Fast
15:27 Flip One vs Flip Two
19:48 Lessons From Mistakes
22:45 Beating Analysis Paralysis
24:09 Mentors Dad vs Moss
27:50 Big Goals and Empire
29:49 Host Vision and Business
30:59 Why Businesses Win
33:41 Second Flip Solo
38:06 Protecting Personal Time
40:23 Atomic Habits Showing Up
42:11 Get in the Room
43:33 Starting a YouTube Channel
47:06 Advice Gratitude and Endure
51:59 Nature Versus Nurture
56:12 Final Wrap and Next Steps

Transcript

0:00

If you're someone who's full of ideas but never takes action, then this is a story you're definitely gonna wanna tune in to. Today, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Carolyn Hearn. She's the disposition manager for Moss Home Solutions, which is a real estate wholesaling company based out of Rhode Island. She's also on her second real estate flip and in the process of starting a full-fledged YouTube channel. Carolyn is someone who takes action. While most entrepreneurs get stuck at the inflection point between idea and decision, she finds a way to move past the fear, take action, while continuously pursuing getting better. Her mindset is refreshing. A lot of entrepreneurs that we've talked about in the past, not necessarily on the show, but the ideas of other entrepreneurs and how they struggle with decisions, she's able to shed a lot of light on how she navigates her decisions. And even when the process gets sticky, she knows how to find solutions, talk to the right people, and get things accomplished. So hopefully, you enjoy today's conversation with Carolyn. Carolyn, thanks for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. I'm excited to get talking with you. I know we've seen a lot of your content, see a lot of what you're doing. Love the flip content. Thank you. New YouTube channel. Yep, just started. Two videos in. Which is, hey, two's more than one. That's- Very true … one, like the first one's always easy, but the second one's always the hardest. Yes, true. But I'm pumped to dive in today and learn more about you and share your story with some of the listeners. A lot of the people listening to the podcast, it's a lot of business, but we also just talk about the journey of an entrepreneur, which is very similar to anyone who wants to grow. People who want to have growth and find something better for themselves, they all carry similar traits. Uh, I know some of your stories are gonna resonate with that too. So you have the YouTube channel. You have, obviously you're doing some flips. You work for Moss Home Solutions. Tell people a little bit about yourself. What do you have going on right now, and what brought you to this point? What brought me to this point is I've always had a love and desire for, I wanna say real estate, but I don't really think it's that. I think it's for a different path, like a little bit of business overall and in ways that I can control, which I find is my own media, my own flips, and then working alongside Moss, which has been an amazing experience. So what got me here is I've been working with them for the course of four years now. I say the course because I just graduated college in May. So I went to Penn State, majored in real estate, graduated, and am full-time with Moss for a year now. But I had gone back since I was 19 to this point every summer and worked with them along the way. And so they really kickstarted a lot of what I dove into. The flips that I've got originated from them. That's what they specialize in. Mm-hmm. And that really brought me there, and then I always grew up around real estate. So I chose that very young as my vehicle to get to, I'm nowhere close to it yet, but financial freedom, and that being my goal one day. So right now I'm just chipping away at it and trying to find the things in real estate that make me happy and energized, and a lot of that is the media and personal branding side of things. I really f- I find that I like it and I get joy from it. So I am doing that. But what I'm doing really right now is full-time dispositions agent with Moss Home Solutions. Mm. So I show three deals a week. I'm working with investors to basically assign those deals to investors who are gonna flip these distressed properties, and then I have my own flip on the side going right now. That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. I love that. And tell me for those who don't know, like when you say disposition- Mm flipping deals, like what, talk me through the process of what the business looks like and what's your role. Yeah. So wholesaling is a niche, as you know- Yeah … in real estate. I feel like even still today, some people in real estate wouldn't maybe recognize what it actually means of wholesaling. Sure. So there's a few main parts to it, but really you can think about it as there's the acquisitions and the dispositions, overly simplifying it. The acquisitions are people that are going out on appointments, typically with distressed people, because we're providing a quick cash offer, is what we're doing. No inspection, nothing like that. So our acquisitions will sign a purchase and sales agreement with them, and then our business model is assigning that purchase and sales agreement to an end investor, and whatever they'll pay higher than what we signed the original contract for is what we make as a company. And so it's my job when I say dispositions to get as much eyes and authorized eyes, people who are actually buying on that property. So if I have a single family in Providence, I know off the top of my head 10 people that I want out there immediately- To see it … to see it. Exactly. And so I'm holding an open house, I'm fielding offers, I'm negotiating offers, and then really the game is maintaining that long-term relationship though. 80% of our buyers are repeat buyers. So it's a very long-term game and relationship-driven role that I'm in. And what do you like about it? I would say the biggest thing I like about it, and really why I chose to get obsessed with it and dive into it, is because I'm so young and I'm meeting the people that are giving me, like, all the knowledge in the world every single day. Like, I get to stand at an open house and funnel, like, 15 to 20 people through that have multi-million dollar portfolios, and if I ask one question, they just open up and they wanna share their knowledge and passion with me. And so the biggest thing and reason I wanted to get into it was to cultivate those relationships- Mm-hmm really learn from these people that can buy these properties. Love that. And we- and I've talked a lot, for those who listen, I talk a lot about the power of proximity, and that's one of the reasons why I'm hosting that seminar, or summit rather, in a couple weeks, is because there's such a value in being around people like that. And what you find is, it's funny, like from the outside looking in, you, people might think that those who are successful or doing more than them, successful's obviously relative, but those doing more than them- Yeah … are, like, guarded with their secrets. Some are, but not in real estate. Like, I find a to- real estate industry, most people are willing to share. And once you get into it, even as you start operating, like I'm sure as you're doing your flips, which we'll talk about in a moment, but you probably realize throughout the process, like, you, if you just have the right people around you, you'll be able to get the answers, and most of the people who are doing more still have that same camaraderie. And that's what I learned even from my first rental property, was like I bought a five-unit. Had enough book knowledge, like I was definitely read, I'd read all the books, like- Yep … multi- Like being in finance you would be. Like- Yeah, ex- Yep … yeah, exactly. Like, I read enough to know, okay, I got this. Yeah. But then I jumped into it, I'm like, "Oh my God." Yeah. There are so many things I don't know the answer to. Yeah. How do I deal with this eviction? Mm-hmm. Why the gas company's shutting off gas. Yeah. How do I figure this out? And as I kept going, the, I realized, like, the people that I was calling to get answers to, like sometimes they'd be like, "Let me get, I'll find out." And like they go get an answer. Yeah. So they're all still doing the same thing, it's just different problems. 100%. When you get over that fear of you're not going to have all the information, you just need the right people. But I love that you found that in your role because I think it's so important, something I try to do all the time. Yeah. Me too, and I feel like you could not have said it better because real estate is that way. Like, it's different in o- than other industries, I feel like, 'cause we are in a niche community that does it this way, but people just wanna talk about it. Yeah. Like, they love it. And actually, like along what you're saying too, CJ Moss just prescribed me to read Who Not How, which is this- I read that. Yeah. Did you read it? Yeah. Did you like it? It's a great book. I'm like- Reframes your mind. Yeah Yeah I'm like three-quarters in and it's so good. Yeah. Yeah, it, yeah, it's a good book. It's a good book, and like it's saying exactly what you just said. To leverage those relationships because they can leverage you and you can leverage them, and you're never gonna have the same strong suit exactly as someone else, so I, I totally agree. Yeah, and, 'cause I feel like there's almost, I don't know if stigma's the right word, but th- there's definitely like this false perception around like collaboration and partnership, like when you're early on in your career. I notice it even like looking back even from earlier episodes I've done years ago and just like my journey, and I see it in other people too. But there's always like the question of, "Oh, I don't wanna partner with someone on this deal." Yeah. Or, "I don't want to collaborate with this person to get the answer or to find the solution, create a better system," whatever the thing is. Mm-hmm. But then once you get over that, you're like, "Oh my God, like this is so much better. We can do so much more so much faster," and you can only do so much by yourself. So I can't… That book actually changed my mindset where I read it a few years ago. I read a bunch of books like that, Who Not, How to Buy Back Your Time. Yep. All really good books. But that was me a couple years ago. It was just me. Like I was doing all the loans, I was doing, managed all my properties myself. I did all my flips, like I was somewhat GC-ing them, like half involved. Now, totally different. Like now I have a team of five people, I have a property manager. Couldn't imagine if someone s- took it all away today. Yeah. I would be shell-shocked. Yeah. Look at this now. Yeah. Like so many people. You have a huge like beautiful office, like that, none of that I'm sure would've been possible. But I am curious because I feel like a lot of people in our space are the way you describe, which is like you kinda wanna do it all yourself. And in a way that's, it's like very, it has a lot of grit to it- Yeah and it's a very respectable thing, but to level up, of course, it's known you can't do that. Did it come easy to you or was it like a big, "Okay, I'm reading this book and now I need to implement some changes"? That's a good question. So I, to answer to your first point, I think you have to do it first. So like when I first started the podcast, I filmed everything, I edited everything, I posted everything. Same with the loan. Like I didn't have a loan assistant for years. I didn't even have a processor really, which is crazy. Like most people at least have a processor. Yeah. But I did everything. Dang. But let me learn the whole process. So then when I went to offload, I knew exactly what I was looking for- Mm because I understood the process. And also it's a capital thing too, but y- of course it costs money and that's part of it. But I think just from a matter of understanding the process, there's such a value in going through it yourself first. But when you ask me is it relative to a book or… Timing's the hardest part. I don't think there's ever too early of a time to start, like delegating tasks. Yeah. I think it's just figuring out the most important tasks to delegate that will help you focus on better tasks. Mm-hmm. So for me, I was actually, funny enough, I was having a conversation last week with my brother, who's also an entrepreneur and- Mm-hmm and is doing stuff. And I said to him, I was like,"My only…" He said, "You… How's it going with the team? Are you regretting anything?" I was like, "No. My biggest regret is why didn't I do this a year ago?" Yeah. Having Alex is awesome, my marketing manager. Yep. I would… I'm like, "Why didn't I do this a year ago?" But I wasn't ready a year ago. Not from the perspective of like the capital and… It wasn't anything like that. It was just you have to… It's your mindset, too, because managing people is very different than just doing the work. Yep. So for me, it just took me to the point where I was ready to shift my mind away from like doing the work and actually focusing on growing the business. And that's really what started this rebrand of the podcast, was like the first phase of business, and I… People who listen to the show know I talk about phases all the time. Yeah. Justin's probably… He's not listening, but if he were listening- … he would roll his eyes because I do. But it's like you're, at first you're just doing the work. Yeah. You're figuring out how to get it all done, learning the systems. Then like the next phase of that journey is where, what are my systems? How do I manage people? Yeah. Who do I need to bring in? And then what's the best way to implement them? But I got to the point where I'm like,"Wait, worst case, what happens?" I hire someone, they're here for two months. I spend X on salary. Mm-hmm. And I find someone else Best case, completely changes my life and my business. Yep. So I'm like, "That's a risk I'm willing to take." 100%. And finally, I just made the decision. I actually hired two people in two weeks. Really? What roles? So Alex came on. He's only been, he's been here for a month. Okay. A marketing manager, and I hired an operations coordinator, which she also does all my property management. Gotcha. So she came on three weeks ago. Amazing. And before that, I had the video team, which I brought on about a year and a half ago. Mm. And then my own assistant about a year ago. So everyone's really come on. My bookkeeper, I brought on six, eight months ago. Okay. So everything's happened recently. Very recent. But because I've learned, like, the systems part of it, it's just plugging people into it. Yeah. Yeah, and I was literally just listening to something this morning that was like, "You can't connect the dots looking forward- Mm only looking back." And like you saying, I wish I had done it a year ago, of course, but I feel like every entrepreneur I hear says it that way, and it's just you kinda gotta fail forward, and you clearly have. You made that big push this year, so that is amazing. Thank you. Yeah. And you just have to be comfortable with it. Not easy. Like, when Alex came on, I said, "Alex," and this was before I even hired her, I said, "You have to be comfortable building the plane in the air." Like, I told her, "I'm not Google." Yep." You c- I don't have an SOP for everything. I don't have the perfect system, but I need someone who's willing to build it." And he was like, "I'm in, 100%." Yeah. And even with the systems we have now, I said, "Look, this is what I have started. Here's our operating dashboard. Here's some of my operating procedures that I put together. Don't follow this as truth. We're gonna use this as a whiteboard. Every week, you and I are gonna sit. We're gonna go through what we like, don't like. We might throw out 90% of it. That's fine. Here's our starting point, and every week we go through it." And over time, we've changed our operating system. We've changed some of the procedures we do now in terms of following up and content marketing. It's already starting to happen. That's how I think, that's the best way to build things, is don't get stuck in that phase of this is h- thing, how things have to be done. Yeah. My, one of my last podcasts I did was with Andrew Bosco. He's the CEO of Candor Realty, which is mass, I'm sure- I saw that … I'm sure you guys have done some epi- Yeah some stuff with them. But his, his perspective was so interesting as, like, a CEO. He's, he says people come to him with problems, and he's just- Yeah … he goes, "I just ask questions." And I feel like that's a trait of- Like, I love that … of a great leader- Yeah … of a great business owner because you're prompting that person to figure out and answer it for themselves and see how they can go about it. And the whole, this is the whiteboard, build it, build the airplane in the sky, that is who a good, a great employee wants to work with and for, is the creativity, the reins. You're, you're cultivating your vision with them. It's not your vision that they're building. Right. It's together. And I've noticed that's what they do at Moss Home Solutions 110%, and it just makes them all really on board. And the who's of the who not how are super bought in, and that's so important. It's like, how cool is it? I'm sure you might have suggestions or thoughts, and then they actually take action off of them. Yeah, they do. Yeah, let's do that. Let's make that change. Mm-hmm. And they, they'll literally say, "Let's just do it. Run with it. If it fails, okay." That's it."We'll pivot to the next thing." And that's something I, I so appreciate, and I couldn't ever see myself enjoying a role or a job where I don't have that freedom. And, and that's, I would imagine that those skills translate into everything. Imagine even for the flips. Mm. Nothing goes to plan. You have an idea of a plan- Yeah… but nothing- Is it even worth a plan? Is it worth a plan? Yeah. Yeah. So, so talk me through that. What, how was the first flip? What, when you got into it, did it go to plan? Yeah. Like, what was… Did you learn something through the process that you're like, "Wow, I didn't think that would happen," or- Mm. Talk me through. How was your first experience? Yeah. So I'm on flip two right now, which I'll probably talk more about. Flip one was easier and good. Love it. And flip one was like, I don't know. I was a partner with my dad, and of course, he has the experience, and it was way more collaborative. I was… Every decision that was being made on who to do what was together, that we don't use a GC or anything, so we're acting as the GCs. We're subbing everything out. Our style is doing things efficiently and, but the hard way, for the lesser cost, and it's always, that's his style. And so naturally for my first flip, that's what I adopted as well. And he's an expert at it, literally- Love it … the best at it, and I look up to him so much for it. But the second flip that I got, I'm not gonna lie, it, it's going, and it's, I'm gonna be fine, but it was definitely, I don't know if I would say in over my head, but it was a bigger project than I probably should have taken on. It's a property. It's 1,600 square feet, single-family home in Dartmouth. It was built in the 1800s, needs a new septic, pretty much needs everything on the inside. And so all of that combined, I didn't know at the time, any property in Dartmouth that's older than 75 years is considered a historic home. So- Mm … that and then paired with some septic setbacks and me not understanding septics and just like- I think something that has made me successful to a degree and then to a fault is just going. Bu- like buying this house, I'll just do it. I literally did it and was like,"Hey, Dad, I just bought a house. Hope you're around to help me with it- Yeah, I love it though … because we're gonna have some work on our hands." But same with the septic. I dove into that without, like, really fully researching it, to be quite honest. Needed more than we thought. Now I need an engineer back out, and it's just, it's complicated is it. And I, my outlook on it is, like, it doesn't, like, emotionally impact me. The only thing I'm upset about is the time, as you- 'cause I'm using a hard money lender, and I'm like,"Damn, these- Time killing you interest payments per month are killing me" And because it's a historic home, I'm going through every T is crossed and every I is dotted, and I'm at the board meetings and everything like that. You're learning a ton. I'm learning a ton. Like, I can't even be mad because I'm learning so much. And that's the best crash course. Yes. And that's where I… Like, sometimes people… Like, I applaud you for just, like, taking the imperfect action because- Yeah … I think most people, the biggest failure is just not starting. And I think so many people get stuck there. Yes. They're worried about the what ifs. And I always remember when I was, like, early on I was talking about a flip actually. This is what I ended up doing, but I said to myself, I'm like, "Worst case, if I can break… Like, if my absolute worst case is I break even," most people would pass on the flip if they're not gonna make a bunch of money. Best case, I make money. Worse case, if I can break even, I'm okay to put in the time to just to learn. Yes. Because even if I pay, like, I mean, for those listening who do flips, like, you're probably like, "Stop talking," but Yeah. But even if I had to pay five grand, say I lost five grand. Yeah. I just paid for a crash course in flipping that I can't get anywhere else. That is such a good way to look at it. Like- Yeah so what, you lose five to 10 grand. Like, it's, if it's not making or breaking you, which if you're doing flips it shouldn't be. Yeah. You're paying for your education, which you probably paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for college if you went there. Yeah. Every flipper has a story, too. Yeah. Yeah. Every flipper has a story of that one deal I lost money on or that couple deals. I brought someone on last week, and he had three projects going on right now, and he's, "I will never take on three projects at the same time in two different states." He said, "We're gonna lose money on some of them." Yeah. But I learned so much about different areas and different building codes and contractor standards. Like, some markets have more expensive- quotes just by the nature of where the market is. Yeah. And so he's, "I learned all this stuff." And looking back he said,"Sure, I would've done things differently, but we're gonna be okay. Like, in the end we're gonna be fine." Yeah." I learned a ton." And Like, people are… It's r- he's real about it, and I love that. Yeah. It's so true. Like, I- that's the perfect way to say it, 'cause I honestly am very grateful for the experience. I think every flip beyond this in my next few years is gonna be a walk in the park, and- Exactly … I'm excited for that, and it's fine. I'm learning a ton. I can help other people who then get into similar situations and spots with it. But overall, for the flip, before we got to this point, I just like, again, a fire hose of information. I messed up so many times, small m- mess ups. Like, I had so many different guys doing so many different projects. I had one guy that was barely showing up, and I had paid him. I had one… I had just all of these things that were going wrong, but not- nothing that I couldn't steer and fix and course-correct. It's the nuances, though. Yeah, it's the nuances. Exactly. Which usually, like you said, they don't make or break- No the deal. They don't make or break. It's just things you remember you could do better. Yes. But those are all expected. Yes. Even I'm sure everyone goes through that. Even if you do five or 10 flips, you're always fine-tuning your process. Yeah, absolutely. We do, like, do 2- 300 loans a year, and we're always like, "Okay, how can we be better on the next loan?" You'll always… You'll never lose that. Yeah. So I think people- There's a lot of people who need to hear that because I think so many people stop. Yeah. They're like, "I have enough book knowledge." They get buried in books. Yeah. I have this one client right now, if he's listening, sorry. I won't say his name. He's awesome- Yeah… but he can't get out of his own way. He just continues to read and listen to podcasts and ask questions. Yeah. He's asking me about 1031 exchanges. I'm like, "You don't even own a property." Yeah. I'm like, "So don't worry about it. We'll figure it out. Worry about that when you sell. Don't worry about that now." Yeah. It's like the other a- the other side of the spectrum is paralysis by analysis, and there's so many people that fall into that. I think for those people, having someone like you in their corner or a partner that is so the opposite. I know CJ had a partner that was very analytical, and he's very much the opposite, but I know for a while it worked for them that way- Mm-hmm because they could have each of those different personalities that are approaching a deal. And to a point, you do need both. Totally. Yeah. And the flip so far, it has taught me so much, so much about business, myself, organization, staying on a schedule. It's taught me much more granular, like how long a bathroom should take to flip. I chose a… This poor guy, he should've let me know. I had in the second floor a bathroom that we were redoing, and there was a, there was just a tub there, but we were gonna do a tub and a s- standup shower. And the wall of the shower was like, if this is the floor of it, it was, like, very slanted, and then the shower head is opposite of that, so, like, where you're looking across from it slants in. And I guess I chose the widest and heaviest tile 'cause I thought it was helping him, not micro- Sure … those tiny little tiles. He was like, because of the gravity working against him, these heavy tiles couldn't stay on the wall. And so I walk in, and he has a contraption of a long ruler holding the thing because that one's not yet set and dry. Those are the tiles you thought would look, would help him out. Yes. Yeah. And I was like, "I'm so sorry. I thought I was helping you." He's like, "You did not help me." But it's just things like that I'll not forget, and I'll know for the next one. Next time you'll know. Totally. Next time I'll know. What advice do you have for someone who's stuck in the analysis paralysis? They're- They know that they should do something, they really want to do it, but they just can't pull the trigger. Like, how would you help them with that? I think my answer used to or would have been tap into that side of you that just shuts off, can take risks and whatnot. It's not that now though, because in business I'm really learning to go, I always call it swimming with the river. Learn what you're good at and what you like to do and go with that. If the analysis by paralysis person is pushing themselves to do such uncomfortable things, like how long is that gonna last? It's… Even if they do one, two or three and they go well, it's just in their nature to be skeptical of a, what seems like a risky investment to them. And so my advice to them would more so get surrounded by people that are the opposite of you, and then form close enough relationships where you're comfortable either doing the deal with them or f- using them as a mentor. If you're… You don't have to be younger, you can be any age. But finding a mentor that's more leaning that way that you really create a relationship with and will trust their input, and they'll steer you to do something like that, you just… That's the advice that I would give. I love that. Yeah. And I know you, so your mentor was your dad, right? Yes. So t- tell me about that. So what, how is that relationship? I know some people, some people struggle to work with their family. Mm-hmm. But how is that working for you and what impact did that have? Like, I always will say I feel like the luckiest person in the world that the way that I grew up with him exposing me to, like, true real estate. Like, literally me and all of my cousins and my siblings would be 9, 10, 11, 12, like, just doing chores at a multifamily. Taking out trash, painting things where we could. Like, we were doing all sorts of things. But it was always in a very… Which I commend him for now, being older, this is hard work, and hard work gets you this. Yeah. And then he'd give us money to go get lunch with the money that we just earned. Like, it was a very intentional learning that he did with us, and I can see it now for myself, my siblings, and my cousins. We all now gravitate towards real estate, which is very, like, very interesting- Awesome … and very cool. And so he's been m- we have, we're close beyond real estate, but he's been the person in my corner throughout everything. My moss times, my flip times, and I bring everything to him because I trust him. But it is funny, because we are different. Like, we will have similar… We do have a similar personality, but we look at things differently. He is… I love him, and if he's listening- … which I know he will, I'll say that this is true. He does everything himself. I don't know someone that's doing what he does that would do it, all of it, himself. Mm. He is not, like, Who Not How I prescribed him to read, because I'm like, "You need that." It's more you want it done right, you do it yourself. You want it done right, you do it yourself. Exactly. And we have some family members that are worse than him. I think it's a Hearne gene. That's how my dad is though. It's how your dad is done. Yeah. But me, I think from, like, also growing up with a separate set of mentors, which was CJ and Beth, who are so business for the team oriented. Like, they will spend money on things that they feel their employees, like, that make their employees' lives easier, better. They have no problem throwing money at marketing if it gives a good ROI. Like, I, I kind of align with more that mindset with business. But none of that's to say is I think with the whole swimming with the river analogy, his works really well for him, and theirs works really well for them. And I'm, 'cause I come up taking bits and pieces of mentors and successful people around me that I like. That's awesome. That actually reminds me a lot of, like, my story where I work with my dad. Yeah. And he's, he's been in the mortgage business for 35 years, and his philosophy is very similar to y- your dad's, where I think it's… I don't know if, I wanna s- I don't wanna say old school, because he would tell me it's older school. He's, "That's, I'm not old, I'm older." I'm like, "All right." Yeah. But all right, Dad. But it's similar where that mentality of if you want something done right, do it yourself. There is merit to it, but- Does it to a f- does it to a fault? Like, you need to find that happy medium where I'm learning the same thing, where he was very old school. He didn't have processor, loan officer assistant. He's been doing loans forever. And now I'm new s- he calls me new school- New school … where it's like new school, where I'm trying to build a team, bring people in, but still keep that semblance of quality control. Yeah. And, like, you put your personal touch on things, and you have an influence in the process. Mm. I think there is a good happy medium between both. Totally is. And I agree with you. I do think it's a difference of the times. Like, I give him so much credit. Yeah. I couldn't do what he does. Like- It's hard all day, every day. Like, your dad's probably the same. Like, my dad's the first up and the last home, always. No m- I think he could be the wealthiest person on the planet, and he'd be the first up and the last home. Like, he lives to work, and I love that, but I definitely… Like, my goal down the line is to have a business or something of my own, and I kinda wanna start working my way to get there. I love that. Yeah. What is your ultimate goal? My ultimate goal is to have my own business, my own, like, thriving business. I want, like, an empire. Like- I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I want something very big, and I think real estate will have a large thing to do with it, just given my foundation in it thus far, but it's beyond real estate. I, I really do love the side of personal branding and media, and I would love to, a goal of mine is to help women and younger women understand that they can get into this much less out of buy-in than they might think. And I think that it's a pretty powerful thing. Like, I know two ladies from home where I'm from in Philadelphia. They're both moms. They both are, their families are doing great and well, but they wanted something to, like, chip away at and feel like they're, like, just s- a tangible asset that they can- Sure … work on. And they stumbled upon cash flow and buying and holding and BRRRs and all of that, and they now own eight units throughout Philly. And they put the time in to find that out, but I would love to be someone that helps people find that out. I love it. Yeah. I love that. That's, like, the, I think it's, like, the ultimate full circle. Like, I do find a lot of en- enjoyment in that, too. Yeah. But I think the goal of an empire is awesome. Yeah. And it's, I always, when it comes to, like, your goals and stuff, like, I've heard so many different takes 'cause I asked, like, similar, I've asked similar questions in the past- Mm-hmm for, for guests, and it's funny where if you can't… Like, I noticed it when you said it. If you can't say your goal out loud and it makes you smile, like, you n- you're, it's not a big enough goal. Yeah. Like, you know, you ever meet someone who you're like, "What's your goal?" And like,"Oh, I wanna make 10,000 more dollars." Yes. And you're like, "That's it? That's your goal?" We can do more. Yeah, like, we can do way more. We can do way more. So I loved it, like, when you said that. It, it made you light up, which is awesome. Yeah. And I had someone who came on and was like Even took it a step further and if someone else doesn't laugh at you when you say it, it's not big enough So true Which is a really interesting point Yeah Where I, so someone asked me what was my goal, and I said, "I wanna buy a bank." And the guy started laughing. I'm like, "Perfect" Good. He's like, "You know how hard it is to buy a bank?" Good. I go, "I don't, but I'll figure it out." So I'll figure it out But I'll let you know when I buy it I'll let you know when I buy a bank Is that your main goal? Is that the vision? That's actually not my goal. I was just kinda joking with him. Okay. Uh, but I, it's one of those goals where it's so lofty that I just, I keep it out there- Yeah… because to buy a bank, from incredibly difficult, incredibly capital intensive to own a bank. I don't know what I'd call it either. I gotta figure that out. But I think it's such a cool goal to be like that's in the vicinity of goals I would think about. Let's keep it in orbit. Um, but my ultimate goal is, someone asked me a similar and I kinda give back and forth answers. But my ultimate goal is to be able to have complete control of what I put my time and energy into. And for me to get to the place that I'd wanna go would require a few businesses. I, I really, business acquisition is ultimately my passion. Really? So I'd love to get… I love business. Yeah. I love what I do in loans, but as I'm growing the team and the mark- with the marketing, I'm involved in a little bit of everything. Yeah. I really would love to, to get in, like, private equity, business acquisition. Yeah. So taking over businesses, increasing the revenue, selling my shares, flipping the business. Because I was talking to, actually, Jim Murray, who I'm sure you- Yeah … I was talking to him last weekend, and he was telling me about what he's doing, and we were talking kinda back and forth about the idea of businesses. And it's like I love real estate. But the u- the ROI and the impact you can have is only so minimal. Like, how many, he didn't say this, but h- how many lives can you impact with real estate? A lot, but within one multifamily property. Maybe you improve the property so the tenants enjoy it more. Yeah. But that's kinda it. Maybe you br- you buy it for 500, you fix it up, it's worth eight. No matter how nice you make it, you can't make it worth two million. But with business, I think the reach is just so much broader, not just from the money side, but, like, how much of an impact you could make. You could employ 10 more people. You could make 20 people really love their jobs. Yeah. You could, who knows, you cut them in on equity, now they have retirement accounts. Maybe the product or service the business is doing becomes so much better. You, instead of helping 100 customers, you help 1,000. Yeah. And then, obviously, the money follows. You solve bigger problems, you make more money. But I love that whole aspect of it. My brother has a very different perspective where he brings that side of the equation. He has that background in private equity. Mm-hmm. And so we have some conversations sometimes and the levers… I, I like how business works. So for me, getting to something like that, I think, would be my goal. Yeah. I'm very similar to you in that way, then, because I totally agree. Like, real estate is a vehicle, but what excites me is looking at a company and then, like- Mm-hmm … seeing how they vertically integrated other businesses to function as a full parent company with their smaller, new children companies. I think that stuff's fascinating, and you clearly have a skill and a niche that most people wouldn't have, which is business acquisition, and you come from a finance background paired with real estate. It's a very unique thing, and I think that would be a really cool path for you to go down. Thank you. Yeah. You still keep the real estate part. Yes. Buy the business- Always … with the real estate. Always. And you still have some real estate on the side. Yes. But I think the most wealthy people in the world, they own companies. Sure, a lo- a lot of their wealth is in real estate. Yep. But they own businesses. It's like the McDonald's thing. Yes. They're a real estate company. So did you see that movie, The Founder? No, I haven't. You haven't seen The Founder? I have not seen it. Oh, my, you have to watch it. I need to see it. So it's about the whole rise of McDonald's. Really? And it's a very good movie. And I forget the main actor. Michael Keaton? I f- I saw it- But it's so, it's really good when it was, like, being promoted, and I need to go back and watch it. You should watch it. Yeah. So when you said that, they talk about that in the movie, and they actually, they do a good job of going into the economics of, of how they're actually going about structuring the land leases, the deals, and they're a real estate company. That's awesome. Yeah. So- It is really neat that they are. It was cool. So tell me now, so obviously you're on your second flip. Yep. What's different this time about, than last time? I'm completely on my own this time. So I'm getting support and help, and very lucky for that, but at the end of the day, every dollar in it's mine. Every decision is mine, and all s- responsibility is mine. So it's just like- I've been just figuring it out a lot. I have, I think I'm in the best position that someone could be in my age because of the mentors in my life that I have. But that's what's different about it, is if I, like transparently, like I, if a week goes by and the flip is not my prominent thing, that's a week of just my money and no one else is driving it. Yeah. So like if I'm just not thinking about it, maybe the f- flip before my dad would be like, "Hey, did we get that landscaper out there? Did we get that mulch quote? Okay, we got one. We need two more." Now it's all me, and I think that paired with this year being my first time in a full-time job space is what I'm learning most. And so I'm trying to balance all of this time, energy, and effort and drive it as effectively as possible. So how do you manage your schedule? How do I manage it? Like, how do you prioritize the flip? Because I feel like a lot of people, a lot of people lo- who want to do flips, like they have a job. Yeah.'Cause it's hard to be a full-time flipper. Mm-hmm. You gotta do a ton of flips. Yeah. And that's something I struggled with even when I was doing projects. But how do you go about that? How do you make sure everything gets done? I would say m- for me, like I do everything by the task. So if I, like most of the first month or two in the flip was all the demo, anything that drywall had changed, ordering the kitchen sets, taking all my measurements, that kind of thing. So it's almost like each phase, which you like- Yeah.… each phase requires a different amount of my physical time being there. So at first I was way more physically there getting all of those things, the measurements and whatnot, but now I'm not as physically there. It's more like the mental work. And I would say managing my time, this is not to deter people because I'm doing it differently. Someone else could use a GC or some- a more encompassing sub that does more. Mm. I'm not. I'm individually picking people. I would say it's a lot of like late night calls and late night time for me to set aside, to be quite honest. It's me, it's talking on the phone with my mentors. It's ChatGPT, and then it's talking- Yeah with the subs. And it can be very frustrating because I know real estate, but then I don't know real estate. I don't have the com- I don't have the competence yet to have a conversation with a sub, and he gives me a quote for the days, time, and manpower he needs to do a whole kitchen. I would just be like, "Yeah, that, that sounds right." Sounds reasonable. Sure. Sounds reasonable. A kitchen sounds pretty hard to build. And someone else is,"No, they're gypping you. You need to get this- Right … this and this." So my point is, I'll have that first call, I'll hang up, then maybe I'll call my dad or one of the other investors that I'm close with and I'm like, "Hey, can you jump on a three-way call?" We go through it all again. Mm. Then we go back to them. I give them the go ahead, and then it's managing that person day in and day out. So I would say it's a lot of evening time for me right now. That's a good… Well, that's how it happens. Yeah. Like you said earlier, it's you put in kinda the second shift. Yes. But all those, like it's funny how many- things are out there, like businesses, ventures, that are just so much more complicated than you think from the outside. Yep. You go, fixing a house, like, fundamentally sounds easy, right? Like, you go in there, you change the counters, you change the floors, you paint it, you sell it. Sounds easy, but it's not. All the nuances of all the details that come up. Totally. But you figure out the process. You do. You figure it out. You figure out your flow. I already have things that I'm gonna change for the next flip. Like, it's just what it's all about, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. And then the good thing, too, for people who are listening and, like, doubting the evening time, I don't know, I… Like, subs usually don't care if you call them late. Yeah, that's good. Some people are so afraid to call beyond 8:00. I'm not. Like, you might get a call from me at 9:30 PM. But it's, it's when… Like, not to be selfish, but to be selfish, after work, like, I like to go for a run and go to the gym. I do not wanna go and sit two hours right after work and then do this all. So I do it pretty late. Mm-hmm. And I just make sure I m- make it work, and if they wanna work too, they'll make it work too. Was it hard for you to make that personal time? Yeah. To draw that line? Yeah. It's always hard for me to make personal time. I actually just signed up, not just, maybe in April, for a marathon, because I knew- Good for you. Thank you. I knew I would have to train. There's no, "I don't feel like going to the gym today," because you have to… I've never ran a marathon before. And so I was like, I'm gonna do this partially because I wanna do a full marathon, but partially because it's going to remove me for an hour to two a day. It's nice to have that, something to push for. But I find a lot of times it's really difficult for people who are trying to take on more than just one thing- Yeah… and still find that time for themselves. Yeah. And it took me, it's still a learning, but it took me a long time. I'm still… My fiance would probably say I'm still very bad at it, but I'm trying. But, like, for me, the gym, like, that's the one, like, sacred time. Yeah. If I usually get up early and go to the gym, but if for some reason, let's say, couldn't sleep, and I sleep in the morning 'cause I'm like, "I couldn't sleep last night," s- a lot of times people would be like, "Okay, it's 7:30, 8:00. I should just go to work" For me, no. The gym is happening today no matter what. Yeah. And it was hard because for a long time I wasn't like that. I w- You would you, like, sacrifice the gym to do work and- I'd sacrifice the gym to do work. And then it'd be… And I'd work till whatever, 9:00, 10:00, but then I'd regret it the next day. I'm like, "Why'd I do that?" Yeah. Was there anything that I did in the next two hours that was really more important than that? There's only so many things you can change. I can always call back the client, but I can't go back to the gym- Totally … at the time that I didn't go. Yeah. And then it's, like, the subconscious of I told myself I was going to do something, then I just didn't do it. Yep. I'm the… I can't do that to me. I can't do it to myself. Yeah. So- I literally had on my lock screen for a while, my friend saw it and they were like, "Are you depressed?" And I was like, "No, I'm just weird like that." Same kind of thing. Yeah. It's a quote and it's, "Another promise you couldn't keep." That's a good one. Because I would hate when I would miss things, and that falls into the gym and things, too, but I totally get that. And then that's a quote I had on my lock screen. It was not quite the same, but it was, "How you do one thing is how you do everything." Yes. So I always had that in the back of my mind. If I'm committing to do this, it's the same commitment I make to my client. Mm. Call you, say call you at 5:00, I call you at 5:00. Mm. The subconscious, but it affects everything. It does. So I was listening to a podcast, and it was the author of Atomic Habits, James Clear. Oh, yeah. He was talking about the theory about how he wrote his book. It was him and Adam Grant and they were going back and forth. And he, James Clear tells this story of this guy who was in his community trying to figure out, how do I better myself? And one of his goals was lose weight. He was this overweight guy. He wanted to lose weight. And he said, "When, how often do you go to the gym now?" He said, "I don't go." So he said, "You need to start showing up." So he said what the guy did for the next three months was he went to the gym for five minutes and left. And everyone's like in the community, he's like, "What are you doing?" Yeah."Like, you're not getting better." He's like, he's trying to figure out, like, master the art of showing up. Yes. And then every time after that, he would add some more in. And I think that mentality, even with the little tasks of like I said I'm going to the gym. Mm-hmm. I'm even OC- I'm so OCD about it. If I'm on like doing something, say I'm on the bike. Mm-hmm. And in my head I go, "All right. I'll do it for 25 minutes." Then I'm on the bike, I'm like, "I should do 30." Just because I said it- Yeah I won't go back to 25. Yeah. I'll have to do 30. Yeah. Like, I will not go back on what I said I was gonna do. Yes. But it's so true. Yeah. It like snowballs into everything. That is so true, and I get weird with running, the same exact thing. Yeah. I can never stop at the mileage that I set. It will be like .03 over, but I'm still gonna run a little bit more just because like- So it's sufficiently past what I said. Yes, exactly. Yes. Exactly. So I love that. No, it's so true though. But I always say like with the showing up to the gym story, it's so true because sometimes people at like networking events or whatnot will come and say that they've never been a flipper, wanna get into it, and they're like, "What should I do?" You could read and listen to all the things in the world, which you should, but start coming to open houses. Mm-hmm. It doesn't have to be ours. Go to open houses in general. Start looking at the rehab. Put your guesses in on what the rehab is. Doing the showing up activities is half the battle, as you- 100%, and I, I listened to, it was Alex Hormozi, who I love Alex Hormozi. I love him. So I talk a lot about him on the show, but maybe one day he'll be on. We'll see. Probably not, but. Feature guest? Hey, come on. He might be. That's a laughable goal. That's a laughable goal. Alex Hormozi. And he will be in the same chair I was in. 2030. Yes. But he a- he was talking about, someone asked him this question, and you know when he gets asked questions, like, it's always like a profound moment, which it was. They said, "What's the single best piece of advice you can give?" And one of the p- things, he had a couple, but one of the things he said was, and I'm gonna butcher the phrasing, but he basically said, "Find someone who's doing what you want to do, and find a way to work for them for free." Yeah. So offer your time and be- Put yourself in the room. Yeah. I was like, "I love that." Because for, similar with what we were saying, like go to the events. Yeah. Like they're free to go to. Be at a company that puts you around people you wanna be around, in a position that gets you in front of people that you wanna be in front of. Yeah. And you learn so much faster than whatever you'll get in the book. And Alex Hormozi is saying that about business in general. Back to like one of our first parts of this conversation was people in real estate are weird fanatics of real estate. Yeah, that's true. Like, no one likes it. Everyone's die hard. I've seen cash flow T-shirts. Like- Oh, yeah.… the whole nine yards. If you go to a room, you're gonna get in the door, like 100%. Oh, yeah. It's a good industry in that way. It really is. Yeah. The cash flow T-shirt, that's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. Yeah. And so how does YouTube fit into this? So tell me about that. I know you started a YouTube channel. Yep. So I started a YouTube channel because I am a uber YouTube consumer. I listen to two videos a day, one about real estate, one about professional development, and that really keeps me sane. Beautiful. Like when I steer away from it, I really feel it in my mood. And I listen to truly great people. I don't even, I'm not a subscriber to many channels at all. I love Diary of a CEO, but I'm constantly just trying to listen to people about topics that I'm currently inwardly trying to work on. Mm-hmm. So I just, I love them, and I look up to them so much. And I was like, I'm super, super passionate in this really, like, I think it's a niche. Yeah. Like this part of real estate that me being a 23-year-old girl- My friends, like any given college roommate of mine, I always laugh about this, could explain what wholesaling is, because I just love it. Yeah. And they find it interesting too, to a point. So YouTube comes into it because I find, one, I find so much value from the videos I consume. Two, I'm really passionate about this topic and everything I've learned this far. And then three, I'm really not trying to be an educator, 'cause I don't think I'm there yet. I think people jump into that way too early. I'm just trying to show my experiences so I can learn with the person that might not have access to the people I do. I love it. Yeah. And sometimes you're surprised the questions they ask. Yeah. Like, in the best way. Yeah. It almost, you still learn from some of their questions. You're like, "Never thought about it that way." Yeah. Just like the fresh perspective. I try to do that, like a similar thing where I'll, if I talk to my friends who aren't in real estate, I kinda ask them, say things to see what they say, and sometimes they'll ask me questions. I'm like, "Like, why can't you just do it that way?" It's so true. Like, I never thought about that. Yeah. Because everyone around me does it this way. Yeah. So it's like that fresh perspective of trying to get an outside look I think is really valuable too. Yes. Like, even with wholesaling, when I'll explain it, and sometimes they're like, "Doesn't more people see it if it goes on Zillow?" I'm like, "You're right." There's a point there. There's a point. That's a valid point. I was like, and sometimes we do that, but it like really, it does make you think, and it, all the perspectives outside of real estate are really valuable, so it's cool. I love that. Yeah. And so the YouTube's a way for you to share the same type of experience? Yeah. It's a way for me to share the same type of experience, be like a relatable young figure growing up and learning this all, and then also, like, I love it. I, I think the branding and media side of real estate is very fun for me, and I like it. I always have liked doing videos, and doing this was really exciting for me, my first ever podcast to be on. And so, like, I enjoy those things, and I think I enjoy them too because I'm a consumer of them, and so I kinda wanna see if that's my jam. See if yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It's a cool space to be in. Yeah. I enjoy it. I love the pun. Thank you for coming on. No, thank you for having me. Um, I can't believe you're only 23. Thanks. That's- Thank you … awesome, two flips. Good for you. Appreciate that. So as we wrap up today, which I can't believe it's already been 45 minutes- I know… I wanna ask a few questions, and I think a lot of times, like- People on podcasts talk from this perspective of they're up in the chair looking down, like they've done the thing. And that's actually why I started this too, is like I wanted to share the perspective of, hey, I don't have this figured out yet, but by the next episode or by episode 50, hopefully I do. Yeah. It's like I'm bringing people behind the fold, and I love that you're sharing that perspective of I don't have all the answers yet, but I'm still doing the thing. And maybe next time you come on the podcast, you'll share the perspective of what you learned when you figured them out. So I love that you're sharing that with people too on YouTube. Thank you. And as we wrap up here, I wanna ask you some loaded questions. Let's do it. So hopefully I don't stump you. So tell me from like your experiences so far, I know you're big into personal development, what's been like the best piece of advice or information that's like really stuck with you, that kind of lingers in the back of your head? Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna give two. Okay. So personally, the best piece of advice I've ever gotten is to be grateful, like to be a grateful person. I've noticed that if I'm… If you get into slumps or days, weeks go by, and I'll try and assess maybe like why I'm not feeling a certain way on a day-to-day, I think it's because I'm not feeling grateful for the little things. Like sometimes we, we just, without even realizing, forget that every single thing we're doing is a privilege. And I've always felt and thought that way, and I… 'Cause this, to me, gratitude is a skill. Like, it's not like you have to feel bad if you don't wake up and name three things you're grateful for. Not at all. But it is a skill to sharpen and hone in on because gratitude to me is the canceling out of many mental illnesses, many, like, unhappy parts of your own life, business life. So I would say that There, and there's one quote on that stuck with me. I'll send you the video after this. Yeah. I think you'd like it, if you've probably seen it. But it's a recap of a podcast, and it's like this profound quote. It was basically the idea of finding greatness, gratefulness in the moments. And s- I'm gonna butcher it because I'm terrible at reciting things. But effectively, it's when you're in the season, when you're so overwhelmed and busy, think how grateful I am for the work I always once wished for. Yes. And so it's like that mindset, and he goes through a few different examples of how grateful I, I am. Instead of, "Oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed, I'm so busy. Get me out of this." Mm-hmm. It's like, how grateful am I for the work that I once wished for? Yeah. And it's like I love that mindset shift. And I actually find myself in that opportunity, like in that mindset where I posted a story a couple weeks ago.

I left the office at 9: 49:05

00, which whatever. But it was late, but I was leaving and I actually posted a story and I was just like, "How grateful am I for the things that like I once wished for." Yeah. This is exactly the days my younger self used to dream about, was what I said. Yes. And it's, you have to keep that mindset. 100%. 'Cause you get lost in like the minutiae of everything. Absolutely. Like the day-to-day like commute. If you're going over that damn bridge in Providence. Yeah. Like everyone near us goes over. I do. But like you're in a car. Like you're in the United States. Like you're, the, it's like those overarching things that we forget about on your way to work that you have dreamed for. Like it's the things like that I think today we've gotten so astray from. Mm-hmm. Because we live in such like a easy society where everything's just given to us. Like you need to be grateful for e- every part of it or else- 1000%… things lose their meaning Infects your head. Yeah, it infects your head. Yeah. Yeah. So what about from the business side? So for me, the best business advice I've ever received, which is business times personal all into one, it's just a word, but it's endure. And I'll say that to myself over and over is just endure. And I'll say to myself, "I'll endure more." Because it, this applies to everything. Mm. I think the harder situations that you can get through, it's just building, building, building your confidence, your competence, all of those things. And it, that's so true in a business sense because there has been so many deals that have gone south for me and Moss. So many things on the flip that have not worked out. Or even I've related to running like so many times that I'm like literally dead from the days run before and I feel like I can't run. But I'm not the, I'll never be like the smartest or the most like naturally gifted person. I feel like I've never been that way, but I'll endure more than the next person. And that's what the advice I feel like since I was a little kid that I've always said to myself in my head. I love that. Yeah. I love that. It's like the, there's so many like different like quotes around that too, but I think most people don't- Most people, the only reason they fail is that they quit. Yes. Yeah. And they, most people who are successful, like a lot of the ones you meet, like fundamentally they might not be top of their class. Like most entrepreneurs are C students. Yeah. And that's not because they all of a sudden had a change in their intellect, which of course you learn more things over time, but they just didn't stop. So I love that example. Yeah. I do think, too, like the endure and the grateful, they actually work in tandem in my own head when I'm thinking. Because if I'm telling myself, "Endure this, you will get out on the other side, just endure it," I then am like, "Hold up. I'm grateful that these are my problems, and that I'm not some person in a third world country." I don't even think that, I don't plan them to work together, but they do. And if a piece of advice I could give is to try and have those two work for you. Love it. Yeah. Love it. I have one more question for you. Okay. So we have another entrepreneur coming on for the next episode. Mm. Jamie Sanborn, who is a powerhouse. So she owns a med spa. They do multiple seven figures. She is awesome. And I know we were talking earlier and even before the show, so some show notes of a woman in business. Would you have a leading question for her that you'd want to make sure she talks about? Yeah. No, I definitely would because this is a question I always love to ask business owners, so I want you to answer it, too. Okay. But it's, I'm just curious for Jamie and for you, for the success you've gotten to and how you've been d- throughout your life and your entrepreneurial journey, what parts of it do you feel were a nature versus nurture aspect of it? What parts of it came very natural to you? What parts of it wouldn't have been possible without your influence and your circle? I always just am c- it's a pure curiosity ki- kind of question. That's a great, that's a great question. Thanks. And so when you say nature versus nurture, help me understand that a little bit. Yeah, nature is the way that you're wired. The way that you came out of the womb, things that you naturally like and gravitate towards. Mm-hmm. Even food flavors, that's a nature thing. That's how you're wired. But a nurture is something that you actively had to work on or due to the influences in your life that have given you something. For me, I'll use myself and my dad since we've already talked about it as an example. A nurture would be that he showed me real estate. I wouldn't, I don't know that real estate would've been the industry without him. But a nature is the obsessiveness that I have, whatever I'm doing, whether it's real estate- Mm-hmm … or the next thing. And so I think all entrepreneurs have a little bit of both. I love that. I think for me, I'll give you one for each, or we'll see, maybe I'll talk more.'Cause I never know where I'll go with these episodes. You never know. But nat- I'm definitely, I'm wired to work, and it's a good/bad thing, but I have no problem waking up at 4:00 and instead of going to the gym, I can go to… I could go to my desk, and there's nights where

I'll work till 11:00 or 12: 53:59

00. Mine. Some people always say, "Oh, d- don't you just want free time?" And it's like my work is so ingrained in my life. Like, all of my, you know, best friends are somewhat involved in real estate, and I met my fiance through real estate, so we're always talking deals and numbers and stuff. Love that, by the way. Thank you. It's awesome. It's great. So that, that's definitely what came natural to me, was just the ability to just not stop doing stuff. I remember even when I first started with the podcast, I was working and

I'd be like 5:00 or 6: 54:25

00 o'clock and I would finish my work for the day, and I'm like tapping my feet. I'm like, "What do I do?" So I just started making podcasts. I started just doing something else, and I just wanted to always find that extra thing to keep going. So that definitely was a nature for me. On the nurture side Something I had to work at was understanding, I think everyone does in some capacity, but understanding the rules of the game, and who not how. Understanding the power of leverage for me was difficult. I grew up learning from my dad, who was thankfully, he was very successful. But he had, was always of the mind of your dad, of do everything, do it yourself. You can still do a lot, but the only way to do that is continue working. Yeah. Where I started to figure out how can I do more with the same amount of hours in the day. Yes. And that's where I really started to figure out how to scale my business, like how to create operations, create systems. Something I'm still learning. I'm not even near the tip of the iceberg. I'm bad at systems. It's hard. Yeah. It's a hard thing. But that's where I really started to figure out, how can I do all of it? Yeah. You look at someone like, I don't know, Richard Branson. He owns what? Like a thousand companies. Like how does he do it? I wanna figure it out. And so that's what I'm, I've really tried to nurture, is the systems part of it. How can I create systems that work for me, for my employees, for my business partners? Like- Yeah … how can we create an ecosystem that works together? And there's always those days, and I'm sure there's days like that on the flip where everything goes right. Yeah. There always is one day. How can I make that happen every day, all the time? Yes. And then create, so instead of one wheel, let's create three wheels. Yeah. Let's create four wheels. Yeah. Let's build the flywheels. But even to your credit, like most people I think wouldn't even have posed that question. It's just a good day, like that day. It's just a good day. It's 'cause a good day, another bad day will come. But it's like the people that separate themselves want to replicate the good day and- Over and over over and over. Yeah. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on. This was great. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. This was wonderful. Stay tuned for the next show. We'll get Carolyn's questions answered. And if you wanna follow Carolyn, put all the details for her profile in the show notes. Yep. And as she mentioned earlier, check out her YouTube channel. Follow along the journey, and stay tuned for what she's got next. Thank you. And I'll see you at Ascend. I'm excited for that. See you at the Ascend summit. Yes. Absolutely. Now you have to come. I, I'll be there. You have no choice now.