Crossroads of Trauma and Healing: Harnessing Faith and Neuroplasticity, for a Transformative Journey

Picture yourself standing at the crossroads of trauma and healing, with one path leading towards a life of pain and the other towards freedom. That's the journey we embark upon as we welcome Dr. Karen Liddell who bravely shares her traumatic past and her subsequent healing process. She introduces us to the power of neuroplasticity and her brain retrain method that helps survivors break free from the shackles of past trauma. Dr. Liddell reiterates the importance of accountability in the process of healing, a powerful reminder for all survivors that they are not to blame.

But where does faith fit into this, you may wonder? Well, my guest, a licensed clinical pastoral counselor, shares her riveting journey from occult practices to a faith-filled life. She unearths the transformative power of faith on our spiritual, emotional, and physical state, even in our decisions. Her work as a counselor stands apart from traditional counseling methods, underlining the significance of faith-based decisions.

Finally, we turn to the science of it all.  We journey into the realm of rational emotive behavior therapy, challenging our core beliefs, and the potential to alter our emotions by focusing on positive memories. The episode concludes with an enlightening exploration of manifestation from a biblical perspective. We discuss faith, science, and counseling to discover how aligning our thoughts with God's will can manifest abundance in our lives. Join us on this riveting journey of self-discovery and healing.

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Transcript

Michelle Hall: 0:01

Did you know that you could retrain your brain? Join me in today's episode as I talk with my special guest, Dr Karen Liddell, as she explains the power of neuroplasticity. Dr Ladell uses her brain retrain method to help her clients retrain negative or traumatizing thoughts much faster than traditional talk therapy. Tune in and see how you can put this method to work in your own life. This is Broken to Blessed, a podcast for women survivors of childhood sexual abuse. I am your host, Michelle Hall. I am a certified Christian life coach and I am also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and for many years I felt broken because of that experience. But thank God for his blessings. He pulled me out of brokenness and into blessings. Hence the name of the podcast and I want the same for you. Healing is possible if you're willing to do the work. Let's get started.

Michelle Hall: 1:16

Dr Karen Liddell is a licensed clinical pastoral counselor, bestselling author and international speaker whose mission is to demonstrate how we can let go of the pain of our past and live in the freedom Jesus paid for. She lived with the shame of childhood trauma eventually becoming lost in new age occult practices while searching for spiritual meaning and power. It was only after a devastating abortion, that she opened her heart to the only one who could love her the way she'd been longing for. As a result, god led her to complete her PhD in Christian counseling and then learn how our brain's neuroplasticity enables us to replace old trauma with new hope. Afterward, he revealed that everything she had learned about healing trauma is coded in God's word. Her groundbreaking book "Brain Retrain, the How to Renew Your Mind Guide, is a step-by-step method to apply God's word to change your mind and finally live free. Welcome to the podcast, Karen.

Karen Liddell: 2:31

Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me.

Michelle Hall: 2:34

You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm excited to talk with you today about the brain retrain technique that you have and your how you use that in your practice. But before we get started with that, share with me a little bit about your family's experience with childhood sexual abuse and how that affected you in your life.

Karen Liddell: 3:02

Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing how insinuous, insinuous, insinuous right that sexual abuse is. Whether you're the person who it's directly happening to or whether it's happening around you and your family, it still infiltrates your life and starts to work who God made you to be and how God made you to see yourself. In our case, we had an uncle who unfortunately is in prison right now for child molestation, who is a lifelong abuser. That began to be just almost like home. You begin to accept that that danger is a normal part of life. It doesn't even come to your attention or mind that that's something that you're supposed to speak up about. And when we were growing up this is I'm 58, so how many years ago was that? It wasn't something that was really talked about a lot. It was more like something that you were aware of in your family and maybe even you learned to have coping defenses against. We won't be alone with that uncle. You just know don't be alone with him.

Karen Liddell: 4:17

But we heard messages like if you ever want to learn more about sex, I'll teach you. We heard things with his step-siblings of the specifics of what was going on, but I didn't know it was happening a lot closer to home and I don't even know for sure if anything happened before I was too young to remember it but I do know that I grew up with attitudes and behaviors very consistent with sexual abuse, things like being sexualized at a very young age, not knowing why do I have all this information and knowledge? Why am I so vigilant and alert? Why am I so hyper-sexualized in a way? So it's just amazing how it can either cause you to be really drawn towards sexual relationships or be very fearful of sexual relationships, but it just warps the sexuality that God gave us to have and to enjoy in our married life.

Michelle Hall: 5:21

Yeah, that's so true. We are not far apart in age. I'm 55. And when I was abused I didn't even tell the family, and it was going on elsewhere in the family. We didn't find out until in recent years. But I don't know, I cannot consciously remember why I didn't tell. I guess it just seemed like it was the right thing to do and yeah, and it was not talked about.

Michelle Hall: 5:56

It was not something that was talked about and maybe in my 10-year-old brain that was something that was subconscious, that oh, if I tell, either nothing's going to happen or they're going to blame me or I don't really think I'm or somebody's going to get in trouble and that's your fault, and so, like I said at that time in my 10-year-old brain I don't know why I didn't tell, but as I've gotten older, of course, and dealt with things and talked with people it was probably a combination of all of those things Someone would get in trouble someone or they would blame me for what happened, which happens far too often and is such a terrible thing. It's like a double victimization. It's like the worst. It is the worst.

Karen Liddell: 6:48

And there's that message given of well just don't be alone with them, or just so the responsibility becomes on the child instead of dealing with the adult. I was really amazed too. I felt like it was all around us. We had a neighbor next door who molested one of my step-siblings, and then we had this man who was right around the neighborhood on his Palomino horse and we called him the dirty old man. Oh wow, and we would just.

Karen Liddell: 7:16

There were all these rumors and don't get caught out when the dirty old man goes by but it seemed like it was so prevalent and it was so normal and you trust your parents to handle the situation. So I've heard stories that he was Our uncle, for example. I mean, I know the neighbor next door. My dad did go confront and say if I don't have evidence that you're getting counseling for this, I'll be calling the police next, which was great. At that point then we had a real definite something was being done. But with my uncle it was more like common knowledge in the family. We were told that the adults had addressed it. But what did that mean? No consequences happened to this man until he was in his 80s and molesting his great-granddaughter. When people finally said we're going to get authorities involved.

Michelle Hall: 8:16

Still at 80 years old, he's still engaging in that activity.

Karen Liddell: 8:21

Still engaging in it, yeah. So sometimes I hear people say, oh well, they're so old, now just let them out of prison, et cetera. There's no boundary on sexuality and sexual desires and sin and demonic influence with age Right.

Michelle Hall: 8:39

Right, wow, so I know from your book you have a lot of pivotal moments in your life, and one that comes to mind specifically is a car accident or a truck accident that you were in, and would you like to share a little bit about that, because I'm going to ask about something else a little later on.

Karen Liddell: 9:07

Yes, are you referring to the group of us as teens? Yes, okay, yeah, so I was a teen. I was a senior in high school and my boyfriend and I had we'd been boyfriend and girlfriend since I was a freshman and he was a senior Different time people. I would never let my 14-year-old date a senior now, right, yeah, that time. And we had done the break up and get back together. And this particular night I saw him at a party and just begged and begged and begged for him to get back together with me. We were so in love and we ended up leaving with his best friend and a couple of other gals and we had all been drinking at the party.

Karen Liddell: 9:51

So I don't know how much the boy who was driving had been drinking, but my boyfriend and I climbed into the back of the pickup and we took off down the road and the boy who was driving thought it was fun to drive faster and faster and faster.

Karen Liddell: 10:06

And I was terrified in the back and my boyfriend was banging on the cab window telling him to slow down, slow down, and we went around a curve and everything just went in slow motion. The truck tipped over and began to roll and we were all thrown out. I went across the pavement so I got pavement embedded in my body from sliding across the pavement, went through a barbed wire fence and into a pole, broke open my face from the top of my head down through my lip and I still have a scar even though I've had plastic surgery since then because of this. And the driver and my boyfriend were both killed on impact and they told me they didn't know if or when I would walk again. I pretty much almost torn my kneecaps off. So after that point, unfortunately, I was in a wheelchair for a couple of months and kind of willed myself to walk again, you know, just refused to accept that diagnosis.

Michelle Hall: 11:15

So even when that happened and I'm so sorry that you had to experience that I can imagine it was a terrifying experience At that point. At that time you said you were 18 or 14?

Karen Liddell: 11:30

I was actually 17.

Michelle Hall: 11:33

So even at that time, when you experienced that and you were in the wheelchair and you said you basically wheeled yourself, do you feel like the technique that you have come up with was in play at that time to help you through that process?

Karen Liddell: 11:53

Yeah, I think a couple of things were in play. , I had been saved when I was eight years old and I didn't have any language. Really. For what does that mean when you're saved? I mean, I got called to the altar, I felt it, I wanted to go up. For weeks afterwards I wanted to go up, but then I didn't have really any training. And what does that mean to be a Christian? Because unfortunately my parents were going through troubles and they end up divorcing.

Karen Liddell: 12:23

So but from everything I've learned about physics which the Lord showed me is very biblical, in whatever you believe, you believe it with all of your heart. That has an effect on your mind, it has an effect on your body. Now, I'm not saying necessarily if I had had maybe nerve damage or something more serious. I don't know if it would affect me the same or not, but I do know when you make decisions, things happen. You know the Bible says decide this day, homilical, sir, and to me that's an ongoing today. Every day we have to decide who will serve. And when you make a decision, it turns out that your atoms make changes in their behavior as a result of your decision. As a matter of fact, somehow physicists have determined that gravitons go into the future to determine the outcome of your decision and come back. They're able to go back and forth across dimensions. I don't know how to figure those out. It's mind blowing, yes, but to me it just points back to what God's word says the power of your faith. The lady that touched the hem of Jesus's robe and he said it was your faith that instigated that, it was your faith that healed you.

Karen Liddell: 13:38

So I made a decision at that point in time that I was getting up off the couch. I was not going to be having my friends, boyfriends, come over and pick me up and carry me to the toilet anymore. Thank you, Mark, that I was going to walk and that I would run, and that I was told also that I would have arthritis in my knees by the time I was 30. And when I was in my early 40s, late 30s, I was having a lot of pain getting up. After I crouched down and I was. In fact, I was watching a Joyce Myers show and she was praying and she said anybody's got knee trouble, Get up. And I was like that's mine, I'm getting up. And I got up and I received the prayer and at that moment, every bit of pain in my knees was gone, and is gone since then.

Michelle Hall: 14:31

Wow, what a powerful testimony. So you are a licensed clinical pastoral counselor.

Karen Liddell: 14:41

Yes.

Michelle Hall: 14:42

And can you share with my listeners what was your path to get to this and how does that differ from other counselors?

Karen Liddell: 14:52

Oh my gosh. Ok, I think I've been around the world of back. So, before I was married. For the second time I was married and I actually started getting into the occult. And again I wasn't. I had accepted Jesus Christ, but that to me had no meaning other than the fact I did believe there is one God and I believed in Jesus. But I also was very open to everything else.

Michelle Hall: 15:22

I was very open to other paths.

Karen Liddell: 15:24

You know how people say there's many paths to God. Well, that's what I thought was true. So I began getting involved with reading carol cards, astrology, began wanting to help people. I really knew that I had a call in my life to help people, but I didn't know how. So this seemed like a great thing to do. I started getting deeper into witchcraft and then began being able to channel the information from what I thought was dead people. In other words, I would meet with somebody and I would begin saying, ok, I'm getting a vision and image in my mind and I'm hearing what this person is saying and it would be very, very accurate.

Karen Liddell: 16:04

But the thing is when, when you get information like that there's, you're not getting it from the beyond. You're not getting it from people who are dead. Ecclesiastes is very clear that the dead will no longer have anything to do with the living. They will have no say in anything on the earth. So I now know that's not possible, but you know, what I do know is that there are plenty of demons around. The Bible is very clear about demons and there's nothing in there that says he has dealt with demons yet. So demons continue to influence us and speak thoughts and images to our minds, because the information was not prophetic. It wasn't. This is what is going to come to pass. And then that was proven out. No, it's, it's just information that anybody around that person in the know would have. No, such as somebody's pet name for them or how they spent their time together. No, what do you do? How does that help anybody? That's just a, it's a show, it's a show game. But that's what I was doing, and I began to make decisions based on the occult that led me down a dark path, a path of destruction and despair, you know, because the devil only comes to kill, steal and destroy your life. So the decisions I made led me to have attractions for other people, to be distracted from my marriage, to actually become divorced and with three little kids, and unemployed. So nothing that I learned or did based on that brought me into a better spiritual life, emotional life, physical life, marital life nothing. So, at that time, though, I had my master's degree and counseling and was working for a psych and substance hospital.

Karen Liddell: 17:54

But fast forward, a couple of years later, I was out having a good old time, being the type of like modern woman that the world tells us you should be. You know sex, drugs and rock and roll. And I got pregnant and the father was like really excited at first, until he realized that we were going to be spending some money taking care of this child. So he ghosted me and I went and found him and said, hey, here's what I'm going to do. I'm just I'm going to have an abortion. I'm not going to be, you know, a typical, you know, poor white trash having a baby out of wedlock.

Karen Liddell: 18:30

I really thought that was like the worst thing you can do. That was in my mind. That was not. Nobody told me that that was my belief. So I did have an abortion and it was completely and utterly devastating. And even in the midst of it I knew something was wrong. I knew this was wrong. I knew this was what I didn't want to do. But there it was, and afterwards I was so, so, so broken. I finally reached a course where God could reach me over my own voice, right, my own wisdom. I don't know at all. I know how to run my life with some. He got me through a Bible. A pastor at a hospital gave me a Bible and because I was bored, I began to read it and I started in the book of Romans, the book of how to, and I knew it was for me Every word was jumping off the page.

Karen Liddell: 19:21

I knew this was real. I knew it was for me specifically, and I began reading. And during this time too, but six months prior to this time, after the abortion, I was so grieving and I was so wanting to make it right and fix it I ended up marrying that narcissistic man who was the father of my baby and we continued to have. We had, up to that, four more children. So our marriage continued to get worse and worse and worse. But during this time, god called me Bible college. I began going to Bible college and I wanted to get my PhD in Bible studies and be a scholar. And I prayed and I asked the Lord you know, what would you, what do you want me to do with this degree? And he said don't you think there's a need for good Christian counselors? Aren't you trained? And I was like what? No, no, I don't want to do that, I don't want to go, I don't want to work for a hospital, I don't want to work for the insurance and I want to pray for people and I want to do, you know, work with scripture. So I gave him a big list of everything he had to do to put him place and by the next morning, if not that day, it was done, and so I gave up. I said, ok, I'll do it, and I've never regretted it. I love counseling now and I love reaching people for Jesus. I love reaching people who don't know Jesus. And then after that time, during the whole horrible time he was leading me out of this abusive marriage, he sent me into the world.

Karen Liddell: 20:57

After I finished my PhD in clinical Christian counseling. He sent me back into secular studies to learn everything I could about neuroplasticity and and all the ways we can retrain our brain. Then he brought me through scripture to show me where he has already given us these tools. But now we finally have the science to kind of explain it or practically apply it or understand what the brain's doing. When the Lord tells us in everything and all things, pray with Thanksgiving, what is that? Do your brain? So that's how I got from there to here. And then he said I want you to write a book about it. And I started it and I diddled around and I lost. I lost focus and forgot about it for like nine months. And then one day you spoke into my heart and you said if you do not get started on that book. I'm giving it to someone else. It lit a fire under me.

Michelle Hall: 21:55

Yes Wow.

Karen Liddell: 21:57

So I quickly wrote the book as quickly as I could, and I didn't even I didn't even have people proofread it, I didn't even have, I just published it. And then after that I felt like, ok, now I read you Lord. So then he sent me through rereading it, having other people read it, having people help me edit it, really tidying it up, get on with all to make sure the scriptures are right, and then I rereleased it as a second edition.

Michelle Hall: 22:23

Which is the copy that I have here in my hand. That that's quite a journey, yeah, a journey, and you went through a lot to get there, to get to where you are now. Ok, so you talk about neuroplasticity and I'm looking at the back cover of your, of your book, and it says In this book, you will understand exactly how to easily recognize everything inside that limits your health, joy and success. Quickly neutralize painful traumatic memories so that they stop hurting and start healing, and effortless retrain your brain to create positive emotions, empowering beliefs and more effective coping skills. That is a heavy order. That is a heavy order. So talk to me about this. Talk to me about neuroplasticity and how we can retrain our brain.

Karen Liddell: 23:30

Yeah, that's my favorite subject. So neuroplasticity, simplifying that your brain was designed and it has a habit of. It has the ability to change itself, change its structure, physical structure and functioning as a result of Stimulus from your thoughts. So your thoughts change your brain, wiring tons of research on that to your lifestyle. So things you do put in your body and things you do with your body Also rewire your brain for good or bad, and also your environment, in other words, what's happening around you. What are you taking in physically, emotionally, mentally from the physical world? This means that we don't have to be stuck in trauma. You know, a lot of times I think we build an identity around trauma instead of being willing to let it go. Being willing is such a huge part of neuroplasticity. Are you willing to change? Because your thoughts are more powerful than almost anything else. Your thoughts are neurotransmitters. Your emotions are neurotransmitters. What that means is that they transmit information to your body based on what your thoughts are saying.

Karen Liddell: 24:45

So if you had a traumatic childhood or experiences, even since then, that rewired you. That is the real definition of trauma. It's not what triggers you. I know we love to say that. Right, oh my gosh, I'm so triggered by that. You know it was traumatizing. Maybe it was, but true trauma is something that actually rewires your circuitry to make you hyper, vigilant and more fearful of fearful situations. That's trauma and a lot of us have it, especially in the world that we live in today. It's just such a different environment. So the cool thing is it's not just.

Karen Liddell: 25:26

We first learned about it with stroke victims right, where people who damaged areas of their brain through strokes could then relearn, but they wouldn't relearn in that same damaged area. The brain would utilize a different area that formerly was not used for that purpose. It would adapt and put the information there. So that was very interesting. We've also learned through the different tools we have now, like brain scans.

Karen Liddell: 25:54

We've learned that your patterns in your programs, your actual memories, all how to's you have going on, everything in your mind is a memory. It's a set of neurons that are connected with each other and the more times you reference back to that memory, the more neurons you link up to that. So these highly traumatic memories have a lot of connectivity, a lot of avenues to get there. Why? Because God designed us to avoid pain. Pain is the most powerful learning device we have, right, yes, so we give those painful memories a lot more attention, and there's a whole part of your brain called the reticular activating system that is designed to alert you to whatever it is that you're focused on. So if this was something good, like, I want to buy a red Prius what do you start seeing all over the road that was never there before? Where?

Karen Liddell: 26:57

did these cars come from.

Michelle Hall: 26:58

I have experienced that with cars. It is so amazing to me how, when you either want something or you buy a new car, then you see them everywhere. It's amazing, yes.

Karen Liddell: 27:09

This is why this is kind of how that secret the law of attraction came about. We have a principle at work that whatever we are focused on, we become more aware of. There are opportunities and for good or bad all around us, but we cannot consciously absorb all of this information it would. We don't have the circuitry. 5% of what we think about is happening in our frontal lobe, 95% is happening in the unconscious and all the rest of our brain. So we have to have a full training system to decide what is it we're going to let in, and it has to do with focus.

Karen Liddell: 27:49

So the cool thing is is you can choose to rewire your brain on purpose when you first focus on your problem, so you understand what. What is the problem. The other cool thing is that you can actually talk to your brain because your brain has a language, because you learn the language, your brain understands your language, and Dr Gary Flint did some very interesting research on directly addressing the brain as a personality and we call that manager of your brain the subconscious and that you can speak to your subconscious and explain this is what I don't want anymore and this is what I do want anymore, and tell your brain. I want you to undo this. I want you to replace it with this. This is how I'm feeling. I don't want.

Karen Liddell: 28:40

This is how I want to feel, and it turns out, your brain will actually cooperate with your conscious mind and can do some of this stuff. There's also a lot of other ways we naturally rewire our brains and again this is in the Bible. There's a verse that says Jesus always taught using parables. He never taught anything without using a parable. Well, a parable is a story and it turns out our unconscious. We learn by connecting new information with something we already know. That's how you learn. So Jesus used parables to connect this new, amazing gospel information with things we already know, like a yoke.

Karen Liddell: 29:25

Everybody well, back then, everybody knew what a yoke was, what it was for, and everybody knew that you trained a young animal with a yoke that was perfectly fitted for both animals to transfer the load off the new young animal onto the more experienced animal, so the younger animal could learn with ease and without being overly burdened.

Karen Liddell: 29:49

So Jesus used that to say take my yoke. My yoke is easy, my burden is light. So it turns out that's what your brain needs. Our unconscious is actually very visual. It's about five years old and it's still operating on how to. We learned at the youngest age because why do you need to learn as quickly as possible how to survive your family, how to avoid pain, how to get attention, how to avoid being molested, right. All of these things we learned and then we carry them through into adulthood and we keep acting this way and responding and creating people in our lives that are congruent with what we believe is true. So our reticular activating system looks out for the abusers, for the narcissist, for the molesters, so that we can continue to keep things congruent until we reset and rewire our brains.

Michelle Hall: 30:57

That is very interesting, and I'm having some light bulb moments here in my own life, which is very interesting. I just it's like, oh, and I've talked with a couple of psychotherapists and they both talk about these early memories, these things that happen before you're even aware that things are happening. And it's so amazing to me that these things that, or these thoughts or these behaviors that are created so young, affect people their entire lives and so many people don't ever figure that out. They don't ever know why they're this way or why this is going on this way.

Michelle Hall: 31:47

One of the things that you said early on is that you have to be willing. You have to be willing. So what if someone is a bit skeptical that they can do this, but they're willing to give it a try type thing? Because what I've seen is that it usually has to be a decision. Someone have to want change. They have to be willing to do something different, get outside of their comfort zone, try something new. So what if you have someone that's saying, well, I don't retrain my brain, I'm not sure that I can do that, but I'll give it a try?

Karen Liddell: 32:28

Yeah, that's a great place to start. What I do, in addition to really kind of going over some of this stuff to overcome some of those objections, is to do a little practicing to just show people how easy it is to change your thoughts and your feelings.

Karen Liddell: 32:46

Albert Ellis was a really cool psychologist from and back in the 70s he developed this method called a rational emotive behavior therapy, in which he demonstrated that you have a thought I mean or you have an event happen. He called it an activating event, abc, so I call it a primary training. So this is like kind of like the core. You have something happen to you. Maybe somebody cuts you off in traffic. Right, what happens? Right away? You believe something about it, like that shouldn't happen, they shouldn't do that, they're driving too fast, they're gonna kill somebody.

Karen Liddell: 33:24

And then you begin thinking about that. How dare they? You know, what I should do is I should go ram them. And you have a consequence, which is your emotions. So we think our emotions are 100%, something that is real and that we have no control over. Well, I just wanna follow my heart.

Karen Liddell: 33:44

Well, the Bible says the heart is deceitful above all things. Why? Because our heart, our emotions, our mind, it is all dependent on our thoughts and the beliefs that are at the core and the root. And most of us have core, root beliefs like I'm not worthy, I don't belong, they won't like me, I don't fit in, I don't deserve it, et cetera. But if you can challenge that, so the DNS dispute it.

Karen Liddell: 34:13

You say you know what? Do I really know what's going on in that person's life? Do I really know that they don't have an emergency? Do I really know that they weren't just jammed or they're tuned and they didn't realize it? And you know what? How often have I done that same thing? Now that'll stop you up when you own it. I'm just like them, because most of the time when people make us mad, it's because we see them doing something we don't like in ourselves or we would never allow in ourselves, or we got in trouble for doing ourselves, and we project that back on them when we can say how am I like that, it quickly diffuses your emotions. So if you can then say what are some other thoughts you know, such as you know what, lord, I just ask you to bless that person and make sure they're safe and everybody else is safe. Your emotions change with your thoughts.

Michelle Hall: 35:10

Absolutely.

Karen Liddell: 35:11

So, for example, should we do a little game. Yes, yes, let's do it, let's do it Okay so I want you just to think of someone or something that's been mildly irritating to you. Don't go for one person I did this with. They went to something from a one, a zero to a 10, they chose something that was an eight. I was like okay, that's a session, let's go for something that's like a two.

Michelle Hall: 35:34

Let me think of something, or is it someone or something?

Karen Liddell: 35:38

Could be anything. Yeah, it could be me. I mean, it could be somebody. Something that happened recently of like I don't know, I didn't care for that, that kind of irritated me.

Michelle Hall: 35:51

You know I have taken on, I think I have done the brain retraining because I have learned a lot about just kind of letting things be kind of like you were talking about the example in traffic. You know I used to fuss in my car. I would fuss at people, ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha. But as I got older I'm like it's just not even worth the energy. It's just whatever, as long as they didn't, you know, hit me or hurt me. Okay, so I do have an example.

Karen Liddell: 36:20

I just want you to. You don't have to, except to you. This is the cool thing about this is sometimes I work with kids and they never tell me a darn thing. I just I tell them and I have to trust them that they're going to follow my instructions. Okay, but yeah, I just want you to get a picture, get an image. It's great to work with your senses. See what you see, hear what you hear, feel in your body what happens when you think about this event? Just just feel. Do I? Is my stomach tightening? Do I suddenly get a weird feeling in my neck? Do I stop breathing? What thoughts are happening now? And I want you to give this experience a number from zero to 10, with how much it's bothering you right now as you think about it.

Michelle Hall: 37:16

Probably about a three or four.

Karen Liddell: 37:18

Okay, good. So I just want to ask you are you willing for this three or four to go all the way down to zero? Would that be okay with you?

Michelle Hall: 37:27

Yes.

Karen Liddell: 37:28

Okay, good. Have you decided to allow this process to work for you? Yes, good. Now what I want you to do is just go to a memory that's a favorite memory. It's not for this memory, it's so fun or it's so peaceful, and I want you to tell me when you get it. I don't want to assume Okay, okay, good. Now I want you to do the same thing. I want you to see everything. The reason we focus Dr Andrew Huberman talks about this. He's a brilliant neuroscientist from Harvard and he says when you focus, your brain is identifying the specific neurons that you want to change your address. So now focus on what you want and a motion, decide what a motion you're feeling.

Michelle Hall: 38:25

In the fun moment.

Karen Liddell: 38:27

In the fun one. Yeah, it might be Peace, joy, love, happiness, gratefulness, freedom. Okay, I want you to choose to make it bigger. Think thoughts that make the emotion bigger for you and give it a color. What color represents this wonderful memory?

Michelle Hall: 38:53

Okay, I know the color would be blue. Blue is my favorite and I did something with the sky, so it would be blue.

Karen Liddell: 39:03

Beautiful, feel the blue color, give it a texture, even Give it a size, make it bigger. In fact, make it expand over your entire room, especially if it started inside you like a blue light or a blue flame and then it grew and filled the room and you could even make it grow because, you know, god gives us an imagination. In Ephesians 1.17, I believe, paul says I pray the Lord will illuminate the eyes of your imagination when translation Okay. And now, as you go back with this blue color to that memory that used to be your three or four, and you just kind of look at it with fresh eyes, like brand new, fresh eyes, take a nice deep breath.

Karen Liddell: 39:57

What you might notice are some different things, because when we open a memory, we are actually bringing new information into the memory. So every time you remember a memory, you have distorted that memory. So it is actually okay if your memories change. That's the way God designed us, because when you were a child, you interpret things and perceive things and you think, as a child, things. But when you grow up, you need to revisit things from a new perspective and see them in a more accurate way. So, looking back now, filled with this blue, notice what's different. Either you have new insights about what happened, or the person or the thing, or you simply just feel differently. What different things are you noticing now?

Michelle Hall: 40:51

One thing that comes to mind is that it's not as big of a deal as I thought it was, or as I made it. It's not Go on. It is something that I had no control over, so I just kind of have to go with the flow and not be frustrated about it.

Karen Liddell: 41:12

So as you go with the flow and you bring more blue into that old frustration and it changes its color and changes its tone. Is there anything left? Is that a zero? Is there another number you were to say from zero to 10? How low is it now?

Michelle Hall: 41:32

Probably a zero at this point, because I have consciously thought about it and I know it's something that I don't have control over. I just, like you say, have to go with the flow and be a little more flexible, because I know I'm the type of person which is maybe something to retrain my brain on. Is that?

Karen Liddell: 41:53

I want you to notice something real quick, but before we go on. This is how natural rewiring your brain is, that often people discount what happened and then they just want to quickly go on to something else. So I want you to take a breath and notice that when you first thought about it and this is all we did, Thought about it it bothered you with a three to a four. All we did was go and create some new neurotransmitters and then we came back to the old memory. We opened that door again and we brought in all that blue wonderful mess and that shifted the wiring and it went down to a zero. That's all you did.

Karen Liddell: 42:33

But if we had done something else, if I had said just tell me all about it, yeah, I agree with you, You're right, that shouldn't have happened. We would have actually reinforced that and made that memory stronger. And then now you have these new insights. You know what I'm kind of a person blah, blah, blah, blah. These wonderful insights you got because you removed the emotion from that memory, and when you remove the emotion, you have room for new information. But it feels natural, it feels like you reasoned it, Like you said with my conscious mind. There was nothing conscious about that, other than you. Imagine the bad memory, imagine the good memory, took some of those resources back to the bad memory and boom, it was different. You didn't consciously reason that out, but it feels like you did right.

Michelle Hall: 43:25

Yes, yes Wow.

Karen Liddell: 43:28

Yeah.

Michelle Hall: 43:29

I had never thought about that Like that. Yeah, before. Wow, very interesting.

Karen Liddell: 43:38

That's how effortless it is to when we have a session, and that's why I always get a measurement when we start, because if I don't get a measurement when we get to the end and that person's at a zero and we start exploring how is this going to positively affect you now? How is your life now going to be easier or different? They will go well, you know. I think I just realized they'll try to turn it into something they consciously did and it's like that's interesting that you just realize that. But for 10 years you've been dealing with this and haven't been able to realize that. And then, at 60 minutes, you're where you want to be. It just feels so natural. You right away try to explain it.

Michelle Hall: 44:18

Yeah, because that's exactly what I was getting ready to do Because, yes, amazing, amazing. So I have a couple other things that I want to talk with you about. So you were talking about the retraining process is what we've been talking about, and a lot of your work is based on scripture. So how does this differ from manifestation or the law of attraction that you earlier? So, because I know a lot of people think that, oh, I can just think this, I can just think this and it'll come to me. So, and a second part how do or can you manifest from a biblical perspective? What's your point on that, or your experience with that?

Karen Liddell: 45:18

I would love to address that Good question. Yeah, so I like to say you can't put lipstick on a pig, you cannot. Just, I mean, I love that whole faith and belief and working with the, the laws of physics that are in the physical universe. God created the universe is not. If the universe is listening to you, it's because everything in creation has been set up at an atomic level to respond to things like decision and etc. But it's it's God's laws that are in effect. So I just cracks me up.

Karen Liddell: 45:57

I think I'm sorry to offend anybody, but when people say, well, you know what the universe knows your needs, really what's the universe? Because you're saying the universe is a person, let's just say who that person is. It is God. You know what's the big deal, but anyway, I digress. So yeah, so the thing about this whole manifesting thing is it's part two. That's what people are grabbing onto. Part two we all want the blessing, but we don't want to do anything that puts us in position of receiving the blessing. We don't want any work. We don't want to have to have to face ourselves in any way.

Karen Liddell: 46:35

I'm just as guilty as anybody else of this, but you've got to clean the junk out Right. Have you ever here's another makeup references for the ladies have you ever put your makeup on in the morning and then later that night you want to go do something, but you don't want to take it all off and start over, so you just put more on a top. It never looks good, it just it looks gross. It ages you 10 years. So here's something you've got to take the the yet off before you can have the pretty stuff on. So with your brain, you can consciously tell yourself things all day long, you can put sticky notes, you can chance them, etc. But your brain, your conscious brain, only handles 5% or maybe four megabytes. Four megabytes of information, right Per second. 40, 40 megabytes of information per second. Guess how much. Your unconscious processes that have no idea it's as up to estimated 11 million bytes of information per second.

Michelle Hall: 47:42

Wow.

Karen Liddell: 47:42

The unconscious always wins If you're all day telling yourself I am healthy, wealthy and wise, but since childhood you had people and events in your life that that conditioned you to believe and had the proof of right. You have all this evidence in your mind that our family doesn't know how to handle money will always be poor.

Michelle Hall: 48:04

They're never going to let you get ahead.

Karen Liddell: 48:06

They're never going to. I remember thinking like that when I wanted to start my trucking business. Oh well, they're. You know, they have it all set up to. You know, stop people. And it never occurred me to challenge that. Really, who is they? Why would they want to stop people from opening more businesses, when that's that's what the government agency is there for is to get more businesses? So if you have all these messages of I'm not lovable, I'm not pretty, I can't do it, I need a man. I'll never get ahead. Money doesn't grow on trees. You have to work for it. But you're trying to overcome that, that truth you're living from. You're living from that truth. You're exuding it. You're. You want to go with the whole energy thing. You're putting that energy out there, right, but verbally you're saying I'm healthy, wealthy and wise, I'm beautiful, I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me, right, but you don't believe that in your heart, to heart of hearts, what do you think the outcome is really going to be?

Michelle Hall: 49:10

You're not going to get it.

Karen Liddell: 49:12

No, and here's the cool, the interesting thing even if that part works right, you're bringing it all to you. If you can't perceive it, because your reticular activating system is focused on proving to you what you already believe, somebody could be standing in front of you with a million dollars saying, here, this is for you, and you're like, oh, I ain't far from for that trick.

Michelle Hall: 49:36

Right, Right, Hmm, Very interesting. Very interesting Because I know, you know, folks do use a lot of affirmations and you know I watch a lot of stuff, I listen to a lot of different people just to see what is going on in the world and there are some people who swear by the law of attraction and how they're manifesting their dream homes and all this money. You know this wealth and you know, and some people have said, that it works, and I'm not saying that it doesn't, but I guess I'm trying to figure out what your you know what your perspective is from a biblical standpoint. For sure.

Karen Liddell: 50:20

So you know you, certainly, if you can remove your blocks and I think a lot of those people have removed the blocks they have and so they allow themselves to have that, they allow themselves to enjoy that. But the other thing is, sometimes you can, if you're really strong will and you have a plan, you can work a plan and get the money and buy the house.

Karen Liddell: 50:43

But what tends to happen often is that people who have these unconscious beliefs and fears end up losing it or sabotaging it because your brain wants congruent. And then the other thing too is, you know, biblical manifestation. So the first thing is look in the Bible and discover what God wants for you. Three John two clearly says beloved. I pray you may prosper, and that word is eudos. It means financial prosperity, that's what it means Love it. I pray you may prosper and be in good health, and that talks about prospering physically, even as your mind prospers. So to me, what the Bible is saying is you got to start with your mind. If you can renew your mind, when your mind starts prospering, you're going to become a better health. And that's just exactly what all science, health related science is pointing to.

Karen Liddell: 51:40

If there is not a direct cause of your disease like a direct cause, you had a gene malfunction, you had a bacteria If there's not a direct cure of it, you do this, you're 100% cured. If it's not that straightforward, it is stress related. If it is stress related, it means your thoughts, your lifestyle and your environment need to change if you want to heal. And if you're not willing to do any of those and you only think and again, I am not, you know, dissing the medical community. There's a purpose for everything.

Karen Liddell: 52:19

But when we want to rely on something that creates more side effects, you know, sometimes things do more harm than good. Sometimes they do more good than harm and it's worth it. But I think we all want to rely on a pill, or we want to rely on a chemo, or we want to rely on something, but we don't want to do anything ourselves. And I want to encourage us all to recognize that, in addition to getting good professional advice, there is so much evidence now that we can create healing in ourselves. We can get an agreement with God's word. So the first step is believing God's word, learning what God's word says, not just listening to only pastors, right?

Karen Liddell: 53:02

Because, there's people who tell you God does not want you to prosper. You should give everything away. If you give everything away, then you're the one who needs people to give money to you, right? And or you should only prosper to give money away. Well, that's not biblical either, right? So if we learn what the Bible says and why the Bible, says it.

Karen Liddell: 53:25

God says we're to prosper a to enjoy it. He wants to see us enjoying our life. He really does. He wants us to enjoy our life Also wants us to support ministry and he wants us to help people who are disenfranchised and need help the poor, widows, orphans, etc. And he wants us to learn that being generous is so much fun and is so wonderful that it creates a cycle where he's giving more to us and we're giving more to others and it just becomes this wonderful blessing. So if you can get out of your own way, there's a great verse that says Jesus had the most trouble with people who opposed their own fault. Your soul is your mind, the last thing you can. You say that again. Yeah, jesus had the most trouble with people who opposed or against their own souls.

Michelle Hall: 54:18

Souls okay.

Karen Liddell: 54:19

They got in their own way. They sabotaged their own lives. So we've got to know what the Bible says, we have to know what the context is of what it says and then we have to make a decision to believe it's true for you. And if you can believe it's true for you, you can begin doing and manifesting what God says he has for you. You know in Hebrews what is in Hebrews 3, 11 or 11, 3, we're to call what is unseen into being seen.

Karen Liddell: 54:55

Again, if you go back to physics, your spoken word A, it can be a weapon. Right, you can weaponize sound. It's also a weapon when you speak blessings or curses over people and then that infiltrates who they, their identity and they began to act out of that right. But apparently your spoken word, it continues. It continues at a frequency, like a radio station is at a frequency. The words you say have a frequency and they don't just evaporate, they continue being out there and apparently that that frequency of your words apparently has an effect on our brains and our bodies and all that. So that's getting into a whole bunch of stuff that's above my education pay grade, but I know enough to know that there's a component in science that matches up and proves what God's word already says.

Karen Liddell: 55:51

So you know, the Lord tells us that, that we have blessings that belong to us, gives us all kinds of metaphors, like the air. If we're in air, that means somebody dies, and then we get our inheritance. Well, jesus did die, so, but the interesting thing too is when Jesus was talking about this stuff, in Greek law, the air was somebody who was a legal designation. It wasn't just because you were born you might be an error, because you were born, or you might be designated the air, and in fact it was the legal designation that had more power than your birthright. And so when you were legally designated the air, you actually had access to all the funds of me.

Karen Liddell: 56:40

So isn't it interesting? God calls us His children, so we have the birthright, but he also calls us His legal heirs, and as legal heirs, there are aspects of our inheritance we have access to right now. Yes, and if we don't believe, we can lay hands on people and the Holy Spirit will heal. Because of our faith, because of their faith, we'll never avail ourselves of any of this stuff. We'll just pretend and act like it's not for us. Does that make sense?

Michelle Hall: 57:13

Yes, yes, it does, yes, it makes absolute sense and, wow, this has been a wonderful time learning from you. One last thing before we go. I wanted to ask you about who you work with, and I mean from a perspective as a counselor. A lot of your work is scriptural based, so do you only work with Christian people, or how do you reconcile working with clients who may not be Christian, who may not believe the same thing that you believe in, mixing scripture with science?

Karen Liddell: 57:58

Yeah, you know, it's really interesting because in all my advertising and everything I put out there, it's very clear who I am, because that's part of who I am.

Karen Liddell: 58:07

At the same time, I tell people you don't have to believe what I believe for me to help you. I have therapeutic skills and tools and while I pray before every session, that doesn't mean I'm going to do anything. That's going to make it difficult for somebody to receive help. So I always tell people, tell me where you're at in your relationship with God. If you have any relationship with God, I want to know, I want to meet you where you're at and from that point I can help them, whether it's strictly my secular tools or I'm adding in, but I do notice as people get to know me and we have that rapport where they can trust me or I'm not going to push anything on them.

Karen Liddell: 58:49

I can start asking them hey, how would you feel like if I prayed for you today? Yes or no. It's generally yes, or would you be interested? You know, I was reading something in the Bible the other day and it made me think of you. Can I share it with?

Michelle Hall: 59:02

you.

Karen Liddell: 59:03

So I think when you meet people where they're at and you respect them and where they're at and you don't try to impose what you believe, then they're more willing to hear what you have to say, Even within the Christian realm. I had to be very careful to understand what is being a Christian mean to you, my client, because it might not mean the same thing to you as it does to me. We got a lot of flavors in the body.

Michelle Hall: 59:29

That is true. That is true, and that's so good to meet people where they are, and have you had the experience of perhaps having a client that had no relationship with God after working with you or while working with you to convert?

Karen Liddell: 59:48

Absolutely, and that's always such a joy.

Karen Liddell: 59:51

Yeah, it's so meaningful, and it's also a joy to work with my Muslim brothers and sisters and people who are atheists or people who are angry at God, because what I'm giving them is a different picture of what it means to be a Christian and I would love to just kind of repute some of those blanket statements and just say okay and help people understand. The church is full of people, like the world is full of people, and everybody's at a different place in that relationship with God or their understanding of what does it mean to love one another. And so when people hurt us, we need to remember that that's not God hurting us, that's human beings hurting us, and you can separate that and have a relationship with God, even though your father gave you a horrible picture that you then assumed your heavenly father would be.

Michelle Hall: 1:00:45

Just like Very interesting, very interesting, oh my goodness. It has been a joy and a pleasure to have you on the show and all of your insight and your wisdom. Your book is called Brain Retrain the how to Renew your Mind Guide. The second edition is the newest one, and so I invite my listeners to go out and pick that up and take a read. We couldn't get through the entire step by step process because that would take a while, but it is such an insightful book and I'm so glad that you came across my path and that I had the opportunity to talk with you and to have you share your wisdom and experience with my listeners.

Karen Liddell: 1:01:33

Oh, thank you, Michelle. You're so easy and wonderful to talk to.

Michelle Hall: 1:01:37

So you made it very easy.

Karen Liddell: 1:01:38

I just appreciate you and all the work you're doing for the kingdom.

Michelle Hall: 1:01:42

Thank you. Tell my listeners where they can find you, your website or your social media information.

Karen Liddell: 1:01:50

Yeah, so I am actually. My website is thebrainretraincom and my social media. You'll find me either through the Brain Retrain, for example, on Instagram, or Dr Karen Liddell on YouTube. My books are available on Amazon. They're also available on my website and if you buy them through the website, yeah, it's a couple dollars more because I have to ship it to you and but I'll sign it if you like me to do a signed profit. If you want it cheaper, yeah, buy it on Amazon.

Michelle Hall: 1:02:22

Great, great, all right, thank you so much. Thank you so much. It has, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining me on this episode of Broken to Bless. Subscribe to the podcast and share it with all of your sister girlfriends. This podcast may be the catalyst to their healing journey. And remember life can get better. You just have to do the work, God bless.