Navigating Life with ADHD

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of "Thriving with ADHD," host Nada Pupovac welcomes back Dr. Mina Boazak, Medical Director at Animo Sano Psychiatry, to share his personal journey living with ADHD. Shifting from his professional role, Mina opens up about his childhood struggles, the journey to his diagnosis, and how it has influenced both his personal and professional life. He discusses practical tools and strategies that have helped him thrive, such as the use of to-do lists, whiteboards, and exercise routines. Dr. Boazak also dives into the importance of a supportive environment and the crucial role his wife plays in his journey. Not only does this episode offer a vulnerable peek into his life, but it also provides actionable tips and hope for those navigating ADHD. Tune in to gain valuable insights and feel motivated to take the first step toward balance in your own life. 

Key Takeaways:

1. The importance of understanding and accepting ADHD.

2. Effective tools and strategies for managing ADHD symptoms.

3. The significant impact of a supportive system.

4. Personal anecdotes that destigmatize ADHD and related conditions.

5. Encouragement to take proactive steps towards managing ADHD and mental health in general.

Tune in!

Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com.

Animo Sano Psychiatry has introduced new services for enhancement of our patients' mental health - ASP Concierge and Health & Wellness Program. Please visit our website to learn more.

Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/

Transcript

   📍     Welcome to Thriving With adhd, a podcast we'll share every day practical tips to thrive in life as an adult with adhd.  This podcast is brought to you by Animo Sano Psychiatry, a behavioral health practice with a specialist ADHD clinic based in North Carolina. And this is your host Nada Pupovac.

Welcome to Thriving with ADHD, dear ADHD community. We have a very special episode this month. Our guest speaker is Dr. Mina Bozak, but not as a psychiatrist and medical director at Animo Sano Psychiatry, but as someone who lives with ADHD. Our belief is that we can learn valuable lessons from someone else's journey, so we are grateful for Mina's willingness to share his story, his life with ADHD, struggles, challenges, management and what helps him thrive with ADHD.

 Mina, welcome back to Thriving with ADHD. Um, we had you for our very first episode and, uh, where you introduced yourself as a  founder and medical director of Animal Sano, you talked about your , ADHD journey,  but here today, you're back not to talk about, uh, you as a professional and, uh, medical director of, uh, Anima Sano Psychiatry, but you're here to share your personal story as a, and someone who lives with ADHD.

So your, um, challenges, struggles, but also, um, things that help you to, to Thrive every day with ADHD and also your support system. So I'm really excited to have you back and learn more, more about you as a person who lives with ADHD.  I'm excited to be on, I'm excited with the work you're doing Nada truly.

Uh, and, um, hopefully we could destigmatize.  Uh, the, the idea of having the condition of ADHD,  uh, and of having mental illness in general. Yeah, yeah, I'm,  yeah, I'm really excited. I'm honored to be here and, uh, to help community one story at a time. So yeah, let's get started, uh, with the first question and let's remind our listeners about your personal journey with ADHD.

We talked a bit more about it, but let's remind them. And,  uh, when were you diagnosed and how  did that diagnosis  change your life? Yeah, that was, uh, so for the listener, uh, not as shares, um, the, the questions we're, we're going to go through ahead of time. And I was thinking about this, um, ahead, ahead of our meeting. 

Uh, and where do, where do I start? The journey of course is lifelong ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition, despite the fact that I was, uh, diagnosed in adulthood.  Um, I'll start, um, in childhood.  So I have multiple conditions, not just ADHD, anxiety and OCD. That was particularly bad in childhood. Um, generally hasn't been a problem in, in my adult years.

Um, the, as a child, I was, you could say rambunctious. Uh, I, to my recollection, my mom, if she were alive today. Um, uh, saw me, of course, as, uh, a, a wonderful human being, uh, sometimes. So, uh, there were instances where teachers, um, suggested holding me back, um, in elementary school. My parents, um, weren't, uh, didn't allow for that.

Um, I, I don't remember from my childhood if they also suggested evaluation, uh, but I would get into fights often. Uh, I was very impulsive. I was, uh, the class clown without being funny. So probably a very difficult child to be around, um, from a teacher's perspective. Uh, had a lot of difficulty with, uh, school in specific and maintaining, uh, my grades, uh, but for the math and sciences.

Why? Well, it was because my dad, uh, loved the math and sciences and every day, uh, he'd, he'd force me to sit down with him for what amounted to hours of. Repetitive, uh, what was at the time very painful instruction, uh, and certainly that helped me succeed. Um, it, it resulted in a lot of conflict, uh, between my dad and me, because it's.

You know, Mina's ignoring, Mina's watching TV and my dad is pulling me away and, uh, regardless, it was, it was very helpful, uh, for my success journey. Um, in, in high school, more or less the same thing. And then in grade 12, um, I was able to sort of hammer down and really focus in at least for a couple of months period to, to get really good grades. 

That that was aided by my discovery of caffeine and coffee at the time.  And, uh, and thankfully, those grades got me into college, though, they, uh, towards the end of the year, 3 months into the year, I, I sort of, um, stopped focusing in and my grades dropped, but at that point, the grades have gone out to all the universities.

I grew up in Canada as an FYI to the listener. Mm hmm. Uh, college. Things declined again, uh, when you put an individual with ADHD who's untreated and doesn't know about their condition in a highly unstructured space, uh, they tend to struggle, uh, migrates did, uh, and, uh, Despite that, uh, I was able to, to get into my career of choice at the time, which was a police officer.

Um, that, uh, led to my interest in psychiatry, led to my interest in medical school. Uh, despite, uh, my grades, I was able to get into a medical school in, uh, in the Caribbean, uh, which is an excellent opportunity for individuals. Who, um, otherwise would not have had an opportunity in, uh, North American medical schools.

Um, and, uh, luckily with, uh, persisting, um, motivation from my policing career, uh, a sense of utter, um, and, uh,  incredible responsibility of like, this is my last chance at, at this, at this thing. Um, I, I ended up focusing into to some extent, uh, and I remember my university, uh, my medical school days went as follows.

Um, they were either days where I could study and the, the code that I cracked for myself on how to study is. I would wake up and I would, as best as possible, avoid exposing myself to anything that would distract me. So that's the most painful and least stimulating life you could think about. Uh, that includes music, anything in terms of text messages or phone calls.

I was a, a hermit in, um, in most regards. I would go to the library. Uh, and if, if I managed to stick to it, uh, and caffeinate myself to toxic levels, um, then, then for that day, I might be successful in getting in a couple of hours of studying, uh, and a couple of hours of hammering my head into the book, asking myself why I can't study. 

And then there were the days where I couldn't study and those were, um,  histrionic days where I would find myself sometimes tearful on the phone with people asking them why I can't study, um, the, but that was, that was how the basic science curriculum went. Luckily, um, uh, I did well. Uh, despite the struggle of, of studying, uh, and then I went into my clinical years and that's, uh, it was my clerkships where, uh, things got really problematic.

And at that point, I had enough knowledge to know, okay, something's going on. Yeah. Um, it was specifically, uh, on, on the medical floors, uh, during 1 of my, my rotations, it might've been my psychiatry rotation. Um, it was my psychiatry rotation. Uh, that I found myself just being unable to attend to the interviews with patients, the sounds in the background, um, the, the different things that happened through that day.

It was just pulling me in all sorts of directions. Okay. Um, and, uh, and I, I. wasn't succeeding in clerkships. Uh, and this was, I did really well in basic sciences, uh, but was struggling in clerkships. Um,  thought about it, spoke to people, ended up going to get a, an evaluation and started treatment at the time for ADHD.

It was somewhat helpful. Um, it wasn't transformative by any means. Um, it took probably  A year to get to a place where I felt I was in a, in a stable, um, location in terms of medication.  Uh, the, I would say more than anything. The benefit of the management for me, uh, has come from. The iterative effect of being able to sit down and do, uh, whether it's sit down and address the work I have at hand, um, or sit down and listen to my now wife, uh, in a conversation and be present  or even attended to, to hobbies.

Uh, whereas before it was sort of a wake up and will today be a Nina who could address the responsibilities, attend to the tasks, or will it be a Nina who's unable to do that? Yeah, uh, so that's that's been that's been the benefit the long term effect. Um, something I talk to my patients about is, treatment isn't going to make you Bradley Cooper from Limitless.

Um, if, if it would, then everyone, uh, and their mother would be seeking out treatment. Uh, rather what we're looking for is to move someone from, uh, disordered, Disfunctional to functional, to normal. We're not making super humans, we're making normal. We don't want to pathologize normal. And if someone's already in a normal state without dysfunction, then why treat?

Um, but yeah, that's, that's been my, my ADHD journey. For, for the audience, I also want to comment, and I'm sorry if I'm already talking too much. No, no, it's okay. Take your time.  So I also want to comment on part of the journey was questioning, uh, and this happens to a lot of adult ADHD patients, isn't it? Uh, you end up, I think.

Societally, the way we think about ADHD is it's sort of this performance condition, uh, therefore individuals who, um, get diagnosed with the condition are somehow seeking, uh, quote, unquote, performance enhancers. Uh, ADHD is dysfunctional as a condition. Uh, you, you, you do see the dysfunction in patient lives.

, And, uh, most certainly while it has taken me some time, uh, through, through the recognition of, um, my wife, who, uh, never, never, um, in a hurtful fashion comments on whether or not I took my medication, but, uh, who notices the difference in days where he's on medication versus not.  The, it has become incredibly apparent to me, um, more so how the treatment, uh, or equally so how the treatment has impacted me in my home life, uh, in addition to my work life. 

And we'll certainly talk about that more, uh, And I have to say in a previous episode, uh, with Meredith, she also mentioned something similar that you touched on previously, that medication can get you to a certain point, but then you have to figure out what to do with all your time once you get focused and stuff.

So that's why we talk about the holistic approach. Yes, medication is important, but then other things and how you manage your time, how your nutrition, your physical activity, So it's not just the medication, it's the whole spectrum of, uh, everything that we are doing in Animal Sano, of course, and that we are promoting, uh, for the benefit of patients.

So yeah, I'm glad you touched on that as well and that you found, recognize it in your journey too. So that's, that's good. And let's, uh, talk about the present.  How, , your typical day looks like and what strategies do you use to manage your ADHD symptoms?  On daily basis.  Yeah. So my,  my  typical, so I, I have two hats.

Mm-Hmm, , three  . I'm, uh, on the one hand, uh, a clinician on the other hand, an administrator, uh, and finally a family man. Mm-Hmm. . Uh, so my typical day, uh. Involves me going through the morning routine, which is typically me waking up at 720, coming downstairs, taking my medication in the morning, coming downstairs, um, making the coffee, then waking up my little 1 and spending some time with her.

Uh,  if I'm good that day, uh, and this remains a challenge, uh, 1 that. Many of my parents, patients also share if I'm good that day, I'm looking at my to do list for the day, uh, uh, as opposed to immediately going into the, the email routine and then getting distracted by all the emails.  I, I find that merely checking in on  my to do list  has been very helpful.

To keeping me focused on the, we talk about the Eisenhower matrix, uh, the important element that may not necessarily be urgent. Feel like email tends to get that sense of urgency, regardless of whether it's important or unimportant.  Uh, And then I'm doing whatever it is that comes with the rest of the day.

That may be clinical care. Uh, that may be going through meetings, uh, for, uh, for work, uh, with respect to home interventions that we've been using. Uh, what's been really helpful for Liz and me, my wife and I, uh, is we do use a whiteboard and this has been through our discussion of the challenges that I have and how it is that, uh, we, uh, we keep ourselves focused, but specifically me and Chick, uh, and this is truly guys done in a loving fashion, uh,  Liz wasn't the one to suggest the whiteboard.

I was the one to suggest it, and it wasn't suggested in a fashion as to, as for me to skirt my responsibilities, but to truly try to attend to my household chores.  So we have a shared whiteboard and calendar in the kitchen, which is a space we spend a lot of our time in that indicates the daily things we have.

Uh, and any big items that, um, that are on our to dos,  one that's been on my to do, um, and, uh, needs to be addressed and don't to anyone, uh, think of doing anything nefarious on knowing this is, um, setting up a family will that one's been on there for  2 years now.  Okay. Um, the, so.  I'm checking my morning to do is going through my day and then, uh, things that are helpful at home is following the chore list.

Um, I do have, uh, activities that have built into habits, uh, so between my role as the, as the dishwasher or the individual who takes care of the dishes, tidying  the downstairs in the morning. Um, going through the, the morning routine with our little one Sarah. Mm-Hmm. , all those habits sort of, um, uh, have a level of ity to them such that it's harder to, to be pulled away from them.

Uh, okay. In addition to the, uh, chore management routine with the whiteboard, Liz and I. Had previously, and this we fell out of, uh, sync with, but I found to be very helpful, um,  met on a weekly basis to talk about. Our family responsibilities, and this was again, Liz's idea worked wonderfully,  um, uh, on a weekly basis to talk about our family responsibilities.

Ensure we both felt that our responsibilities were fair between both of us delineated  responsibilities as necessary. Part of that included. Responsibilities for fun time for ourselves as individuals.  Um,  the, and that, uh, that comes from a book whose name I'm blanking on currently, but we'll remember. Um, ultimately, there is some structure to the day and, uh, some lack of structure.

Um, part of the, the distraction lately has been, uh, YouTube and reading about AI. I've been very passionate, uh, on maintaining, uh,  an up to date knowledge on, on the implications of generative AI and the impact on, on behavioral healthcare in general. Uh, certainly you've seen a lot of that. Uh, I've been trying to, in certainly HIPAA compliant fashion, leverage the tools available to us to do, uh, great patient care.

Um,  okay, I think this, this is very.  Very useful and hopefully it gives, uh, it will give ideas to our listeners, uh, to maybe organize their own family life. I think  if you don't talk about the things, then, uh, There's a greater chance of, misunderstanding and just things getting out of hand.

So I think what you ladies are doing, it's, it's fantastic. Really. I really admire both of you and what, what you would say, um, are your biggest challenges that you're facing due to ADHD, both personally and professionally, and  what do you do to overcome them?  You know, so I'll answer that question. I just want to add one comment about The benefit of scheduling time,  Liz is an individual who needs to address things in the here and now, whereas sometimes I could be put it off to later person. 

Um, so the benefits we've found of scheduling time to talk about things. Is that, um, it.  Reduces the sense of interruption for me. One thing I found is like, if I'm interrupted, if I'm pulled from doing something, Um, the effort, uh, the mental effort it takes to get back to that thing Is, um, pretty hefty. Uh, consequently, if Liz has a here and now item that she really wants to address And I'm,  I don't know, reading a book, doing something Uh, the, the pull is so hard that it leads to frustration.

So the, uh, scheduling a time was beneficial in that it's really easy from a mental effort perspective for me to go, well, let's schedule a time for it. Or if we have a preordained time to meet to talk about stuff. And that's also done. It's also really good on Liz's end because if she needs to address things, she knows there is a time, um, to address those things.

Uh,  happens to be,  um,  in part the same why people get benefit from journaling is for more or less the same reason. You have a delineated time to address things on your mind. Uh, did Oprah, uh, in part from psychotherapy. Um,  but yeah, that's that that's been part of the benefit. Uh, now going back to to challenges  and I would have forgotten that  I not have the list of questions here. 

Um, I,  I would say the biggest challenge, uh,  personally 1st.  Is being still  so there is. Constantly this.  sense, uh, not, non anxious sense, uh, but sense that something needs to be done, I need to be doing something, and I am unable to let go of that,  um,  why that,  why I find that to be challenging is.  It makes it difficult to even be present with, with my little one, uh, and those moments are so intimate and important to me,  uh, and I'm sure there's, are going to be plenty of, of reasons I feel, uh,  guilty as, as a parent and for, uh, my very human failures as a parent as the years go on, but that's, that's one that I,  I find most challenging is the ability to be present with family. 

Um, without thinking about ABC thing, without, um, distracted, uh, reading about the next thing, um,  Uh,  I, 

I found mindfulness practice to help a little bit, uh,  though I've, my sense is in part, it's, I mentioned in medical school, what really helped me with being able to attend to, uh, studies for particular days. If I, if I avoid distractions for that day.  Uh, lately, my distraction has been work,  so what I've been trying  to think about, um, trying to think about, uh, and I say that because, you know, when you have  enough responsibilities, the truly important non urgent things sort of fall by the wayside, but the urgent, uh, Uh, stuffer is in the front, um, is  identifying a way to shut down at the end of the day, such that it's still open.

You know, the, the next innovative thing we could do, the next  workflow, um, the, the patient item isn't on my mind.  So that's, that's been the family challenge. There, there are many. I don't want to pretend like I don't have other challenges. There are,  um,  professionally,  uh, I think  there are also many. Uh,  the one that I've been trying to work on most. 

I shouldn't say one of the ones I've been trying to work on is minimizing how much I talk in meetings and  giving people the opportunity to lead,  brainstorm, generate ideas.  Uh, I worry about getting in people's way, uh,  the, it's, uh, and to, to be clear, I find this to be less of a problem in clinical settings, um, or in, in patient encounters.

I, I hope my patients would say the same. I find this mostly to be a problem in, um, in, in business meetings. Uh,

Okay.  Um,  I hear you. I also have to say  you're one of the most respectful and encouraging, uh, and of course it, your opinion matters. So, um, but you're also very good in supporting  your team members and encouraging ideas and, , supporting people to, uh, try things out. So you might be a bit hard on yourself, but okay.

Uh, but you're very, very kind to, uh, share, you know, what, what you're dealing with. And so, yeah, that, that's my take on this. And, uh, would you mind talking about, uh, some maybe specific tools and techniques that, that you use, To help you to manage ADHD. Uh, so  thanks for seeing what you said. Nada. Um, I, I appreciate it.

Um, I,  thank you. Uh, so tools, tools and techniques.  So, I mentioned some of them earlier to do lists really important, um, despite encouraging my patients to use handwritten to do lists, as opposed to technological ones, um, which truly have.  Uh,  some,  uh, some, some element to them that makes them a little bit easier to interact with.

Uh, I find myself using technological to do lists and specifically to do lists as, as, I don't know.  I try to go by, uh, the getting things done approach, uh, by  David Allen, uh, and that's even though GTD wasn't written for individuals with ADHD.  I truly believe it was written for individuals with ADHD.  I mean, the reality is a, um, ADHD as a condition that, um,  suffers due to, uh, issues of disorganization really benefits from organization techniques.

But the truth is, everyone benefits from positive organization techniques. Amen.  . Uh, so to-do lists, uh, I do use, uh, whiteboards. I mentioned the one in the kitchen. I have a whiteboard here. Uh, and if I'm good about it, I'm utilizing it. Uh, in addition to that, uh, I do like to try to keep track of time as time passes through the day.

I do struggle with time blindness, which for the listener who doesn't know, um, really is a challenge around knowing how long something's going to take, um, uh, in the awareness of the passing of time.  and  maintaining an awareness, uh, of the passing of time by having an object in front of you that, that actually monitors that is very helpful.

The best way to do that is by having physical, uh, measures of time in your workspace outside of the computer screen itself. Um, the,  uh, I, I have. Experimented with the Pomodoro technique. For me, it hasn't been as helpful.  Uh, the, I, I think if I were particularly strict about it, or if I was able to be strict about, um, the, the 25 or whatever time, uh, uh, system that works for an individual.

And then it would have worked better, but I'm not as great with that  calendar scheduling. So 1 thing as, as the business has grown that, uh, has.  Improved my efficiency. Is my accountability to everyone else. Um, through meetings, um, and tasks that I have to do for others, uh, that sense of accountability is  part of what keeps me honest,  um,  and keeps me addressing my responsibilities, uh, The, um,  in with respect to scheduling specific projects.

I haven't started doing that yet. Uh, it's just been essentially a lot of meetings that lead to something needing to be done in the here and now. So we do it, finish it, and then move on to the next thing.  I'm trying to think of additional helpful things that, and, you know, when this isn't really a technique, um, and it feels like a. 

Maybe it's not yet a cliche, but something that people talk about, but, um,  uh,  Well, it's something that people, uh, over speak of his exercise. Um, I do try to exercise regularly. Um, my modality of exercise is CrossFit. Um, the, there, there isn't any. Um, specific approach to exercise that necessarily, uh, would be more beneficial for an individual than any other.

Um, so long as I think there was a, I'm not sure if it was a Department of health and human services. Um, Uh, evaluation or some government agency that evaluated all the research on the topic and really, you're looking to put in about 150 minutes of at least light intensity exercise um, uh a week is helpful and that truly more it definitely probably helps my cognitive and executive function but  I noticed more an impact for my anxiety more than anything else, uh, on weeks where I don't get my exercise in versus weeks where I do. 

Uh,  yeah, and that's, uh, those are, are the. The most  common items for my routine if I'm, if I'm good, I'm doing mindfulness, but in fairness, um, I haven't.  Consistently  done mindfulness enough to say that I'm great about it.

 Okay. I just wanted to, uh, I just remembered, uh, one thing regarding the previous question. And when you talked about stillness and, uh, it crossed my mind that maybe it's not just the ADHD thing.

Maybe it's also, uh, part of our culture, part of what we were   thought to, uh, to think and behave. And that,  I don't know. We always have to be productive. We also always have to do something. And we, if we're not doing something, something is not right. And then it's just,  um, maybe  I'd say  it also has to do with the culture we live in.

So, and then if it combines with mental health conditions, then maybe it's doesn't allow us to be in the moment, to be present, to be with our loved ones without feeling guilty. That's my thought. Yeah. I 100 percent agree with that. I worry, um,  I worry about  not just  today looks like, but what tomorrow will look like when we're developing technological tools  that. 

Are  incentivized or promoted  to steal your attention  for the purpose of making money. Yeah, exactly. And such that we are entraining the average human brain not to be able to be bored.  Um, what, what will this. What will this mean for our kids? YouTube, Shorts, TikToks, look at the,  I, I already see it having an impact on me,  uh, over and above my baseline.

Um, what about Sarah? Who's now two? Um, what will 10 years from now look like for her? Hey, yeah, it's, it's deeply worrisome.  Yeah.  And again, it doesn't have to, uh, have  a connection with mental health. It's just,  um, the general state of the society and where we are going. So, um, hopefully we'll all find a way to, uh, deal with this.

And I don't think it's a way we feel guilty when we are not working enough, then we're guilty. Uh, when we are not with our families and we're in constant, constant cycle of guilt. Uh, so I just don't  see it being sustainable.  Yeah. So, yeah.  Okay. And when we are talking about our families and friends, let's talk about the support system that you've been, uh, finding in your journey that was helpful to you.

Can you describe it please?  Yeah.  I would say the number one support system has been, uh, Liz, my wife. She's been fantastic  at  kindly,  without judgment,  identifying  or working with me on  solutions to help us build our  family, our household.  Um,  such that  both of us  share an equal responsibility. Um, and I, I think 

it's, it's a fine line  to walk, uh, as a spouse of someone with ADHD. Uh, you, you know, I, I mentioned earlier, uh, the idea of me being on versus off medication and that could be the mere communication to someone. Did you take your medication today, or did you forget to take your medication today? That could be very hurtful.

If said in the wrong way. Yeah. Um,  so I,  Liz has been amazing. Um, the, in  additional support systems, I mean, between. Uh,  my family and friends, and they were accepting me merely for who I am,  people at the team at work, uh, who's a different family, uh, and also, uh, accepting, uh, Me for for who I am and, uh, leveraging a highly structured processes to help us succeed. 

Um,  really, it's  the support is all around me. Uh, I,  I will say that 

1 can miss the support.  If  the, so there's, um,  we talk about RSD now in the world of ADHD and rejection, rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria, and, um,  if  my emotional.  Resilience or sensitivity was such that.  I viewed the often constructive feedback from others.  As being  negative.  And it'd be very hard for me to, um,  to have seen the support that I'm receiving in part as support.

Uh,  so the,  I, I wasn't intending to compliment myself, but I guess I'll pat myself on the back for, um,  accepting the, the constructive feedback. I, I am very lucky to have.  Highly supportive individuals in my life.  Um,  and thank you Nada for being one. Oh, you're very welcome.  So, yeah. And I, but I suppose it goes, it goes both ways and it's mutual.

So, yeah.  We, we talked a lot about, uh, support system in previous episodes and if, uh, people are, , not lucky to have supportive family and friends. There are community groups. There are, um,  even in your area where you are or online. Um, I guess in this day and age, if we can thank technology for something is to, uh, , being easier to connect with like minded individuals and find the support maybe outside of.

Your, um, closest,, circle of family and friends, if you're not lucky enough to, to, to have them in your life, but thanks, thankfully for you, Mina, that's, that's not the case. So, uh, I, I'd say that's, that's great that you're surrounded with people who support you and understand you. So that's amazing.

Um, yeah, I would add to that. Um,  so we all,  uh, benefit.  From social encounters and connections, it's part of our, our humanity. Yeah. Um,  the,  from a mental wellness and resilience perspective, um,  I would,  so there, there are support groups out there and join them and get to know people and develop relationships.

Yeah. Um,  though also,  um, shift your frame from, uh, to, to the listener. From  an attempt to as best as possible, and this may be the case  from an external locus of control to an internal one.  And what I mean by that is, um, better does not start with others, um, who move you towards better, better starts with.

You taking the 1st step towards better. Sometimes it could be harder. Um, some days it could be harder than others. Um, and others will invariably fail us because they are human to, uh,  the, what I'm, I'm trying to figure out the whole point of me saying this is to  essentially try  to emphasize that. The, the light is at the end of this tunnel and the tunnel starts with you,  or movement towards the light starts with you.

It's fair enough. Taking personal responsibility in a way. Yep. So, uh, can we have more words of wisdom from you? So, uh, what advice would you give to people with ADHD listening to us, um, who struggle to find balance in, in the, What,  what else would you say will help them in their lives?

Yeah, the,  to, to all the, the things that, uh, as a cliche, people say are good for you. Eat healthy, exercise,  um, uh, socialize in a healthy manner, uh,  and, and seek out care if you think you need care. Um, I,

I hope that me sharing my personal journey with you.  Destigmatizes all of this for you. I intentionally mentioned, um, anxiety and OCD earlier because I think it's, uh, nowadays easier to talk about to some extent A DHD than, than the others. Mm-Hmm. . But regardless of the condition, um, there,  there truly is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Mm-Hmm. . Um, and the journey starts from taking that first step.  And, uh, and to wrap up, so, um, if there is one thing that you would like our listeners to take away from, uh, this episode and everything we talked about, what that would be?

 I, I don't have, uh, fantastic words to share that will transform anyone's life. I will say this,  if you crack the code to finding, uh, stillness. Message me because I'd love to figure out a solution myself. Excellent. That's yeah. I would like  to know that too.  So, uh, thank you so much. Uh, this was  vulnerable, but also insightful and very helpful.

Um, you shared many, uh, I think practical tips as well, uh, that would help our listeners. So I'm very, very grateful for this conversation. Thank you so much for coming again.  Thank you for having me, Nala



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