ADHD, Imposter Syndrome & Hidden Cognitive Strain

What happens when success on the outside hides a very different reality on the inside?

In this powerful episode of Thriving with ADHD, host Nada Pupovac speaks with Jason McDaid, fire engineer, speaker, and founder of The 78% Club. Jason shares his deeply personal journey of living with undiagnosed ADHD, battling imposter syndrome, and carrying what he calls Hidden Cognitive Strain—the invisible mental and emotional effort required to keep performing while quietly struggling beneath the surface.

Together, they explore the connection between ADHD and self-doubt, the impact of late diagnosis, perfectionism, professional identity, and the importance of reaching out for support.

This conversation is honest, vulnerable, and ultimately hopeful for anyone who has ever felt like they were secretly failing despite appearing successful.

⚠️ Content Note: This episode contains discussion of depression, burnout, suicidal ideation, and mental health struggles. Listener discretion is advised.

Learn more about Jason and The 78% Club at 78percentclub.com.

Thank you for listening to Thriving with ADHD. This show is produced by Animo Sano Psychiatry. For more information about our clinic, please visit animosanopsychiatry.com. 

Animo Sano Psychiatry is constantly looking for the talent in behavioral health. If you are a psychiatrist, nurse practitioner, physician assistant, or mental health therapist, we'd love to hear from you. Visit our Careers pages to learn more about the available positions. https://animosanopsychiatry.com/careers/ 

Transcript

⚠️ Content Note: This episode contains discussion of depression, burnout, suicidal ideation, and mental health struggles. Listener discretion is advised.
 I thought I was the worst fire engineer in the world. I thought I was the only person not able to get it, 78% of us can't be as incompetent as we feel we are. Bridges would fall down, buildings would fall down-
nothing would ever get made, you know? There'd, there'd be no advances in society if we were all as bad as I felt that I was at my particular job.
 Welcome to Thriving With adhd, a podcast we'll share every day practical tips to thrive in life as an adult with adhd. This podcast is brought to you by Animo Sano Psychiatry, a behavioral health practice with a specialist ADHD clinic based in North Carolina. And this is your host Nada Pupovac.
 Welcome to Thriving with ADHD, dear ADHD community. In this month's episode, we are talking about ADHD, performance pressure, and professional identity with Jason McDade. Jason is a fire engineer, speaker, and founder of the Seventy-Eight Percent Club. After years of believing he was about to be found out despite a successful career, Jason was diagnosed with ADHD just before turning 50, a moment that transformed how he understood himself and his experiences.
Today, he helps professionals explore the connection between imposter syndrome, self-doubt, and, uh, what he calls hidden cognitive strain, the often invisible mental and emotional effort for someone living with ADHD
Jason, welcome to Thriving with ADHD podcast. We, when we first connected and you shared your story, I immediately knew that it would be fantastic to share with our audience because it will resonate on so many levels. So that's why I'm excited to explore your ADHD journey, your ex- experience with imposter syndrome, and actually there is a work that you're doing through your 78% Club, and we will know- we will learn more about it shortly.
But the warmest welcome to you to our podcast. Thanks, Nada. Thanks for inviting me on. And yeah, as soon as I- when I saw you on LinkedIn and your podcast, there was just something clicked in me and I sent you a message saying I'd love to, to talk about ADHD. You know, I talk a lot, do workshops and do talks about imposter syndrome and stuff, but I've never actually done a talk about ADHD or been on a podcast about it.
So this is a first for me, even though it's played such a role in my life and to- through the workshops and stuff I do. So yeah, I'm really excited to be here and- Excellent, Jason ... talk about it all. Um, I would like to ask you to explain to our listeners who may not be familiar with your work- Mm ... about the concept of the 78% Club Yeah, so the 78% Club is something that I've started probably about two years ago.
It's, I started it, it came as a result of a long downward spiral journey, whatever you would call it. Hitting rock bottom really at, points of burnout, depression, suicidal ideation, just the world was too much for me to, to deal with. And thankfully, I, I took, I, I saw that I was in a, a very low place, so I, uh, I had a moment of clarity and I said, "I need to talk to somebody about this."
So I, I immediately called a therapist, and we've booked some online sessions, and done that for two years, and that really helped me. And as part of my recovery journey, I trained as a life coach because I saw all these other engineers. So I'm a fire engineer. I saw lots of engineers and architects been really stressed out and struggling with burnout and stress and everything in life, and I says, "I'd love to help other engineers and people in the construction industry."
So I trained as a life coach, and I still was down. I was, you know, I still couldn't really get myself up and the say I'm terrible at... As part of one of my coaching sessions with my own coach- Mm-hmm ... I was asking, saying I, I've got imposter syndrome about being a coach because- Oh ... how am I meant to help people if I'm so broken myself, if I've been down to that low, I'm taking antidepressants and, struggling daily?
And that's where imposter syndrome came in to the whole thing, and I read a stat- I started reading up about it. I was sort of, I want to learn more about imposter syndrome. And I, the first statistic I read was that 78% of people experience imposter-related thoughts at some point in their career. Mm-hmm. And I was going, "Wow, this is mind-blowing to me," because I thought I was the only one.
I thought I was the worst fire engineer in the world. We lived in New Zealand, I thought I was the worst fire engineer in New Zealand. We moved back to Ireland, I thought I was the worst fire engineer in Ireland. I thought I was the only person not able to get it, couldn't remember things, couldn't do this, couldn't do that.
And that was, r- really fed my imposter syndrome. So when I found out that 78% of people were feeling or potentially experiencing similar, I was going, "Well, this is something that more people need to know about," that 78% of us can't be as incompetent as we feel we are. Bridges would fall down, buildings would fall down-
nothing would ever get made, you know? There'd, there'd be no advances in society if we were all as bad as I felt that I was at my particular job. So that's where the 78% Club has come from, and only after that had kind of got going did I get my ADH- ADHD diagnosis. Mm. That really went bing, you know, it was just like a light went on and just going, "Ah, that's where- Mm
90% of my imposter feelings were coming from," was this feeling that I just shouldn't be here. I can't do this. I don't belong, you know? It was... I could never get it like the other people, even as a teenager, as anything, you know? I always... Afterwards, I described it like I was living in a fishbowl. You know, I could tap on the glass, I could see the world out there, but I couldn't interact in it, and that was not knowing why.
It kind of fueled these imposter thoughts. And yeah, so that's where the 78% Club has come from. It's to, to let people know they're part of a huge percentage, a club, 78% of us, and you can't be alone if you're part of a club called the 78% Club because, there's a lot of us there. Yes. Oh, Jason, thank you so much for sharing this.
This is so deeply personal but also relatable, and the fact is that almost 80% of people feel like this. So, my bet is whoever out there is listening could find themselves in your words and what you just shared. Let's hear more about your story, and, uh, let's break down some of the things that you just tapped into.
So what it was like for you professionally before you diagnosed with ADHD, if you can share more, if that's okay with you. Yeah. Yeah. One thing you'll find out is I'll probably share too much. You may need to do- It's okay ... a lot of editing. So but feel free to, to call me if I go off on a big tangent somewhere because I can, I can easily- Don't worry
go off on tangents, but yeah, so career-wise with undi- undiagnosed ADHD, so I was a, a chef. I fell into chefing by accident- I ended up on a professional cookery course. Done two years of a professional cookery course. Got a job in a fine dining restaurant in my local town and worked in, uh, the professional cookery world for eight or nine years.
F- completely tripped into it, but there wasn't an awful need for my brain as such in that. You know, there were little things like forgetting to take the carrots out of the steamer after 12 minutes, and the head chef would call me, go, "Chef, carrots." And I'd have to run back and hopefully they wouldn't have been destroyed.
But things like that with my memory were a bit, but it wasn't too big of a thing. So day to day, I'd always struggled. Uh, you know, my childhood was tumultuous, you know, an alcoholic father and all the, the different stresses that that led in life. So I, I kinda had- A bit of damage, I suppose, from growing up.
And I always felt like there was something going on, but I, I didn't really pay much attention to it. I went back to college and studied my engineering degree, got an engineering degree. Came out in 2012, right in the middle of the global financial crisis. There were no jobs to be had in Ireland, so I got two job offers in New Zealand.
So myself, my wife, and our four kids, we packed up and we moved down to New Zealand, and I started my career as a fire engineer there. So it started off great. It was positive and I was really proud of myself. I'd achieved something and I'd got my degree, which was one of the things, I always had to get a degree, so I managed to get this.
But in an engineering degree then, your brain becomes a lot more important or a lot more in play nine to five, and things like my memory, my ability to prioritize tasks, procrastination, all of these kind of things, you know, it was an onslaught then of, "God, I need to do this." And I've got... Had Post-it Notes, had tables stuck up here, had everything.
And, you know, I was enjoying it, but I was kind of going, "Right, how do I keep on track of the jobs I'm doing? How do I do this? How do I do that?" And I suppose that was just very overwhelming as well. So, you know, I could start a task if it was something I liked, I'd dive into it. Mm-hmm. But I could then burn out and just lose total, not total interest, but total momentum- and I'd be slumped down, or I would be trying to s- You know, I'd, I'm a great one for I'll buy another notebook and that will sort this problem out. So I'd have notebooks, I'd have online notebooks, and I'd have everything going, but everything was just in a mess. And at one point, one of my therapy sessions, I described it as like living inside a, a tornado.
And I could just put my hand in and pull something out, but it, there, you know, there was no way of getting the same thing twice. There was no kind of, couldn't get any kind of consistency going. So yeah, like, career-wise, it was much like my life. It was chaotic and, just that tornado and able to just pull something and go, "Right, I'll try and focus on this," or it's gone again.
And yeah, so- Professionally I was st- I was thriving. I was doing well in my job. Took me a couple of months to get settled, but I was doing well. Mm-hmm. Externally, I was moving up the ranks in the company. I was getting good reviews, I was getting pay raises, I was being headhunted. I had ... One of my hyperfixations has always been graphic design software and computer software of any kind.
So luckily, in fire engineering, which is the type of engineering I'm in, there's a lot of fire and smoke modeling. So my company couldn't do this, so I says, "Right, I'll do the fire and smoke modeling," and I was able to dive into that and done courses. And I was really able to focus on that and thrive and grow- Mm-hmm
and grow in my respect in that. But internally, I was just, the whirlwind was still going. Uh, you know, people on the outside would look and say, "Oh, yeah, he's doing really well." And I was called the poster boy for my college course because I'd gone to New Zealand and I was making a success of myself and other people were struggling to get jobs back home.
Mm-hmm. And, you know, it was- On the outside it looked great, but on the inside it was a constant struggle. I, uh, you know, more Post-it notes, more notebooks- ... more this, more that, so. Yeah, it, and I suppose that then led to the feelings of inadequacy starting to creep in- Mm ... because especially with my memory the other engineers seemed to be able to pluck figures out of the air and just, you know, at will.
Whereas I would forget figures that I'd just seen 10 minutes before or just used, you know? And- ... what's the travel distance here? What's the heat release rate for this? And I would just I couldn't answer. And even if I did know it, I wouldn't have had the confidence to say it out loud because I was thinking, "No, that this is probably wrong."
So- Yeah ... I used to wonder, like, how, how can they can all do this and why can't I? So that's where the, the real downward spiral started to set in, and looking on LinkedIn, and people are there, like, oh, he's got three years experience and I've only got one. And, oh, I want to get as good as him, but he- oh, he probably knows more than me.
And you know, so yeah, there was- ... a lot of trying to get up. And I suppose at the end it felt like kind of crawling up but sliding back down and, you know, just always this doubt of kind of why, why can't I just do this fairly... You know, it's complex, but it's straightforward at the same time, you know? Just remember the little number that's written on the page-
that I use every day. So yeah, it, it started good and started going down, I suppose- Oh, right ... very quickly. Yeah. I hear you. So I suppose my next question would be twofold. Now, looking back, do you reckon that there were signs of ADHD all along but you just didn't recognize them at the time? So that's, that's one thing.
O- obviously now from this standpoint you do recognize, uh, what was going on, but being in the situation back then, I suppose you couldn't give the label or the name of what was going on. And then I my second part of the question is, do you reckon this, that these ADHD symptoms were feeding these feelings of imposter syndrome and self-doubt in your career?
Yeah, like the, there were all the signs there. Yes They were just ... Like, I seem to relate to all of the ADHD traits that you could read in a, an article or study. And then, you know, I'll tick every box, and I could tick a 10 out of 10 in each one. And just ... My wife says, "Yeah, I could have told you that years ago, you know , that you had ADHD."
So I, I kinda thought that I had autism, uh, was what I was actually going for my diagnosis for. And then I just watched a d- or a video on YouTube one day or on TikTok, and somebody was talking about ADHD, and I was like, "Ding, I've got ADHD." Mm. I know it. So then I went straight and got my diagnosis. So I let the autism slide then.
I thought, "Oh, I've just got ADHD." But then I went back and looked into autism diagnosis, or you can have AuADHD. So I think I- I had all the signs of that. So AU ADHD kinda has the polar opposites. It has a rigid need for routine and structure with this crazy spontaneous thing that you need to do something new and you'll get bored all the time.
So, and you know, it has the introverted and the extroverted both battling at each other. And I suppose I was a very, or I am, a very complicated character. You know, I've kinda have very few consistencies in my life other than chaos. My wife says she lives in a total, you know, world... I come up to her and I say, "Oh, I was thinking I might..."
And she's going like this. "I don't know what this is going to be." you know, and I c- I could come out with something, go to the shop, or it could be I'm gonna take up astronomy and I'm heading off to buy a telescope online there, you know? So there's always been that whole thing flying along with me, and I didn't know what it was.
And I suppose when you put it into a professional setting, then it was much more constrained. There was kinda hard boundaries I was bouncing off. So it really, like, it's my nervous system I think was just constantly in a kind of a fight or flight state while I was in this because I didn't know why. And now that it has been exposed to more people, or potentially been exposed to more people, so, other traits like my boss would call me over to the desk and she'd be saying like, "Oh, I want you to do this, and this," or, "Reply to this email and say this, this, and this."
And I'd be going, "Yep." And I'd turn around like that, and it was just gone. You know, there was no knowledge of what she had just said there. So I'd be back to my desk going, "Oh, I can't ask again," you know? And I'd be, "Oh, what was that you said?" Trying to come up with ways to overcome this, you know, and without looking like a fool, without looking like an incompetent buffoon, you know, who, you know, these people had brought me across the world from Ireland to New Zealand and I was going like, they're going to just be thinking, "Why did we waste our money on this?"
You know, "This guy is just stupid." So yeah, like, all of these little signs- fed to the imposter thought of, "I shouldn't be here." I used to think, like, "How did I manage to get a, an engineering degree? I can't remember a basic figure, you know, out of a table. How did I get this engineering degree? I shouldn't be here.
I'm talking to the, the boss or the associate engineer, and they're just rhyming stuff off, and I'm here, like, a kind of 10-year-old's level of understanding of complex fire engineering, you know?" But, and I'm not stupid by any means, you know, I'm intelligent. Mm-hmm. So managed to get an engineering degree, doing quite well with it.
Had two kids during my engineering degree, you know, sort of the- Mm-hmm ... I had all of the two newborns to, to deal with while doing an engineering degree, while working. So yeah, like, I, I managed to do these things, so it wasn't that there wasn't evidence there that I could do it and that I was doing good results in my review, my reports would be good.
But internally I just thought, "I shouldn't be here. I'm a fraud. I'm incompetent. I'm stupid. I just am waiting for the minute that my boss just kicks me out and we're back to Ireland in shame with, head held down and yeah, I failed, everybody knew I was gonna fail, so here I am back." And yeah, so that's, it's was very heavy living with all of that.
I think because we had moved to New Zealand too, there was a lot of expectation- yeah ... on me, you know. And there was a lot of hype, I suppose, back home with, "Jason's going to New Zealand," and, "Jason and the family are going to New Zealand." And family were all proud. They're sad and, but proud. And friends are going like, "Oh, what are yous doing?"
And you know, one guy said to my wife, he says, "Ah, yous will be back." He says, "Jason will say something to somebody, he'll annoy them, and that'll be the end of it and you'll be back." You know, so there was this kind of thing on us as well, and I felt like I was just going to prove everybody right, you know? I was going to blow it up.
I was gonna say something stupid, do something stupid, be kicked out, and just back with my head between my shoulders or my tail between my legs and, yes, there was, uh, that huge pressure on top of it all as well, so. Oh my God, Jason. Yeah, I just wanted to say the exactly the same thing. It o- it wasn't enough that you were already internally struggling, but there was this- extra pressure.
And I suppose it's even maybe more, it, uh... Am I correct to say it's more hurtful if it comes to people close to you, people who are friends? I know they don't, they mean well, and they're joking, but it can add- ... extra level of pressure, and then you want to prove them wrong and say- Mm. You- Oh, you take one comment and you think that is the whole- Yes
general consensus- Exactly ... of the trip, you know? So- Yes. Yeah ... yeah, it was a lot of pressure, you know? And- Oh ... so w- even without ADHD, that probably would be good, but maybe I wouldn't have had the reputation back home as somebody who was going to make a mess of it, you know? So- Mm ... but, yeah, that's where I was th- there is a term that you coined that's hidden cognitive strain.
And then I suppose it comes from this pressure to hide and overcompensate your difficulties either professionally or personally. So would you mind telling us more about it? And I suppose you, you were talking about a difference between showing up externally and what you feel internally.
So tell us more about this and how is it showing up in people who may appear successful on the outside but really have a real struggle inside of them? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I came up with the term hidden cognitive strain as part of my work with the 78% Club. So I had gone through the whole downwards journey. I had burnout, I had depression, you know, suicide ideation, different things going on, and nothing really ticked all of the boxes.
So when I said I had a burnout or I'd done a test, you know, oh my God, I scored 95% on the burnout test. You know? So, uh, when got, uh, coaching or therapy about how to deal with burnout, so that was great. And I was going, "Right, am I cured now? Am I fixed? I had burnout and I feel better." But it didn't tick every box, you know, there were still some things, and depression didn't tick every box and, stress didn't tick every box.
So there was just s- stuff missing. Then when the ADHD diagnosis came, that really ticked an awful lot of boxes. But it brought... I s- I suppose it didn't tick them all, but it brought in the most of them together and I now had something that I was going, "Right, I'm not just somebody who has burnout, not just somebody who was depressed, not just somebody with this, or not just somebody with ADHD.
I'm somebody who has an awful lot of different experiences of stresses, good things, bad things, everything in life." And that's just what we all are. We're all just, we're the culmination or the amalgamation of all of our experiences. And rather than trying to tag myself as, oh, burnout or depressed or ADHD- None of them were fitting it, so the term hidden cognitive strain came to me, and I started developing this.
And so the definition is, that's the one good thing about when you, when you come up with a term, you get to write the definition yourself, and I can never remember the definition properly because of my, my short-term memory, but I'll- ... I'll do the best I can. So hidden cognitive strain is the strain associated with- People who appear to be thriving, even excelling externally, but internally are, as I used to say, clinging on by my fingertips.
So externally you've got this facade where everything is looking good. You're getting a job or you've, you know, you're going for jobs and getting promoted, pay raises, headhunted. You look like you're doing really well. Poster boy for the college course, you know? Like- ... externally it all looks fine.
Your family are looking at you and going, "Oh, yeah, brilliant. He's succeeding down there. He's in New Zealand, he's got a great job." Kids are looking at me, my wife is looking at me. Everybody's looking at you and they're seeing this facade, this externally facing success, but inside I was just, I was crumbling.
I was... At one point, at near my lowest point, I felt, I used to feel... I'm always very descriptive in my own mind when these things are happening, but it used to feel like I was clinging on to my whole universe by just my fingertips, and if I let that slip even slightly, it just would've, my world would've turned to dust.
It just would poof. It would've just blown away, and that was the tension that I, the strain that I was living on, and that's when, I suppose, the suicidal ideation was coming in and I used to envy the dead. I was, I'd hear some- the news would come on and there'd be somebody famous might have died, and say, "Oh, this fella died at age 75."
And I'd be going, "Oh, lucky f-", well, you know, "It's over for him now," you know? All the stress is gone for him. Or reading the paper, somebody died, and go, "Ah, lucky," you know. No more- Mm ... They have felt this release of it. And I think the, the strains, man, I suppose it came to the point one day when I was walking, we live a lot, we live near the sea and I was walking along.
There's a little small roundabout. People in America might not know roundabouts too well, but there was a, a bus coming along, big double-decker bus, and when you come to the roundabout you have to go right and turn around. Mm-hmm. And this, it was a very small, little tight one, and I remember just saying, "If this bus driver gets it slightly wrong and comes around that corner, he could just take me out of it."
And I didn't move, so I didn't make a corrective step to get out of the way. I didn't step into it, but I didn't step away from it. And the bus passed. The driver done his job perfectly, took the roundabout and headed off on his life completely unaware of the, sliding doors type moment in my life that he had played.
And yeah, it was... I think that was the s- kind of scary part, is that I didn't take that step to give myself that few inches of safety. And I thought, "If this happens, that's the end of the strain. That's, there's no more stress. My wife will get my insurance payout for my life insurance. They'll be able to pay off the mortgage.
They'll be able to pay, you know, if my two daughters are getting married, they'll be able to afford a wedding. You know, they'll be sad that their daddy's not there, but it'll be better than the humiliation that they're probably going to experience when I get exposed as being the stupidest person, the worst engineer in Ireland, and get sacked, get blackballed from the engineering industry because it's a small industry and once you get sacked, they're going to, everybody's going to know, 'He's a fool.
Don't hire him.'" I was going to lose my job, lose my house, my kids would have to change school because we lived in a nice little seaside town where the mortgage was higher than if we lived out in the country somewhere, so they were gonna have to leave school, leave their friends. There was the whole, the whole thing was just all based on, I suppose, me clinging on by these little fingertips to this world, and the bus was this the escape for everybody, you know?
It wasn't just me. It was the, the family. I was going, "They'll just be better off if I'm dead. They get the money. That's all I'm working for, is money to help them. Just let the bus hit me and let them get on with their life." So I suppose that's where hidden cognitive strain came from, is that strain. It's hidden.
Nobody knew. My wife didn't know, my boss didn't know, the kids didn't know. It was just me in there struggling, sitting up in my little attic office trying to keep this together. And, you know, obviously when you're in that state of mind, your work isn't going to be of a good standard either. So- Yeah ... you know, you're, you're almost feeding the inevitability- Mm-hmm
of getting found out because I wasn't working properly, wasn't working to good standard. This was making me think, "Yeah, this is as good as I am." So yeah. Well, Jason, this is such a... Thank you for sharing this with us. It's deeply emotional. And, uh, thank you for being with us still. Yeah. I'm glad I am.
I'm sure your daughters are proud of you. Yeah, and- So what, what was the tipping point, and how or what- situation or what happened that changed your mind and that you looked up? There was maybe a couple. Well, I s- was, the bus wasn't the point. You know, I didn't go, "Oh, now I have to go and get help," and head off and do it.
That wasn't the point. The point where I went and decided I needed to talk to somebody, it was during Christmas. Always the gap between Christmas and New Year's Eve, we're all off and we were living d- in a different place, a different house than we are now. But I remember just walking back from the supermarket, from Dunnes Stores, and there's a little zebra crossing between our house- Mm-hmm
and the supermarket. And kids are all in the house, my wife was there. Christmas just over, everybody happy. Mm. The kids with all their toys, everybody's off work. And I remember walking across the zebra crossing and thinking to myself, "There is zero happiness inside me now. There isn't one ounce, one bit anywhere of happiness in my whole body."
Mm. And I said, "I've got everything sitting over there 100 yards away, my four kids, my dogs and cats, wife, and there's nothing inside me." So I thought that isn't good." This was after the bus thing and after- Mm-hmm ... and during all the, all lucky dad people. So I says, "Yeah, I need to, I need to talk to somebody."
So I went and online, booked a, an online therapy session, and that, that was the start of my journey. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't the, it wasn't the end of the descent because that came two or three years later when... So one of the things I used to do was job hop. I called it parachuting. And parachuting was when, this is my own term again, and when I'd start a new job, I would be all kind of chest out, and this is what I would call peacocking.
So you'd be chest out- ... tail feathers ruffling and fluffing away, and, you know, "I'm brilliant and I'll be doing this job great," and I, I always had about maybe 6 to 12 months of the company and the, my colleagues not knowing how incompetent I was and how terrible I was gonna be at this job. So maybe six months I would be, you know- Puffed up chest.
After that, it would start going down and down and down. My confidence would go and I'd go, "I'm going to get exposed here. They're gonna find out soon." Mm-hmm. So my parachute was I'd have another job lined up, kind of in my back pocket. I'd be talking to a recruiter, and as I felt the net was closing in, that my bosses were going to call me down to the meeting room and expose me in front of the company and kick me out, I would have my parachute on, which was my other job, and I'd jump out.
I'd bail out of the burning wreckage of the plane, and I'd land into another job, and I'd start peacocking again. So, you know, I was going, "Oh, yeah, this is great." So that, I used to do that a lot, and that, uh, I talk about that a, a lot more in the, the workshops and stuff because there's a, there's emotional costs to this each time.
You know, you don't recover fully when you jump. You kind of, you only go to 70% of what you were when you started the last time, and then you're 70% of that. So eventually you're not jumping from a very high height, and there's very little energy to peacocking. And so I think I was at that level with my last job, and I'd worked in huge, big buildings like sk- not skyscrapers, but high-rise residential buildings, high-rise office, commercial, industrial buildings, huge factories.
You know, I've done all of these- Mm-hmm ... big things in my career and- They were, they, you know, they were part of my, my CV, everything, how proud I was of all the stuff I'd done. But the building that actually broke me was a two-story townhouse in Sligo- Mm-hmm ... in Ireland. It was a little two story, the simplest little building that you could do the fire safety design for, and it broke me.
I had just started the job. I couldn't get this. It was just ... I was used to doing bigger types of buildings, and this little, tiny, small residential building was something I'd never really done much of, and I struggled and struggled. And somebody emailed me, a client emailed at about 5:25 PM saying, "Oh, could we have a meeting?"
And whatever it was about that email, that was the str- thing that broke me, that little job- Mm ... and that email on it. And I went home to my wife and I was just going, "I can't do this anymore. I can't do this." I just ... I thought I hated the career, I thought I hated the job, but I was just, "I can't do this anymore."
And she says, "Look, you have to talk to somebody about this." Mm. "You have to see someone." And this was the first time I'd talked to her even about it. Mm. And she was a bit shocked. Um, she says, "You have to talk to someone." So I knew I did, and I rang... This is even when I was talking to my therapist, you know, it was...
But that obviously wasn't enough, the therapy on its own. So I rang Leah Health, the online GP, booked an appointment- Mm ... for the morning. And even bef- that night, just the relief, this, it was like the stress and the strain just washed out of my body just from telling my wife- Mm ... and from booking that appointment with the GP.
And I just remember this feeling that- I don't have to do this on my own anymore. I'm not doing this on my own. And it was, uh, I almost felt like crying. I didn't cry to her. I, I cried when I was telling my therapist later about it because I felt so bad, just kinda that she- I had let her down. But I'd started the next m- I had the appointment the next morning with the GP, and he put me straight onto antidepressants, and I went down and I got them, and that was it.
And that was really a big changing point for me to, to take these antidepressants was... I thought I would be embarrassed about it, but I was actually really proud of it by the time I got them. I was going, "Oh, do you know what? I've actually done something for myself here. I've taken- Excellent ... this step." You know, I've gone and I've said to a doctor, I've said to my wife, "I'm struggling."
I've said to my doctor, "I'm struggling." I've gone down to the chemist where I go for my diabetes medication, and I've got these tablets, and now I'm taking them. Take it. I'm doing a positive thing for my life and for my brain. And I never have felt the slightest bit of shame or shyness or, not wanting to tell anybody about it.
I tell anybody who I meet that the conversation comes up that I take them. And they just, even that alone was huge. Now, it took a couple of months of trial and error with doses and types and stuff, but the psychological lift of just telling somebody and feeling like I had done something for myself, that was the moment that it all changed for me, and that's where it kinda- The lift came.
But at the same time, that's where my imposter syndrome about being a coach came from because I was going- ... how am I meant to tell people, "Oh, be happy and be good, be this and that," if I'm propped up by antidepressants? You know, I was so- Mm ... down and so bad that I needed antidepressants to help me function.
How can I be a coach to somebody and guide them on how to do something in their life? You know, I can't just prescribe everybody antidepressants. So what my coach told me, he says, "This is you. This is what makes you, or what will make you a good coach- Yes ... and what makes you the person you are. They're your battle scars.
They're, you know, you're coming out of this war, this battleground." Yeah. "The smoke is behind you and you're walking out. You're damaged, you're battled, your shield is dented, you're bandaged all over, but you're still standing and you're able to walk out." And that's what will make me, I suppose somebody that can help other people because I've been here and, so.
Oh, wonderful. I'm not sure why. Wonderful, Jason. No, that's so amazing. And yes, I would agree, uh, with what's been said to you because first thank you for being courageous enough to share I, I think to share what's bothering you with someone that you love and then, uh, someone that's taking care of your health.
I think, People tend to, um, think that they shouldn't be sharing from different perspectives. Either no one would understand me or I don't want to burden people around me, et cetera. But there is a huge, as you as you said, a huge relief from sharing your burden with someone. And, um- Mm ... and it turned out that, uh, these were people who wanted genuinely for you to be better, so that's- Mm
a huge relief. But then also you taking measures to help yourself, it's empowering, isn't it? Uh, just to- ... Re- can regain back the control of your life, correct? Mm. Yeah, like just to feel like, yeah, I've done something. And it's- Mm ... you know, especially when it's something to, to do with mental health.
Exactly. Like, if you cut your finger or broke your arm, you'd be straight down to the doctor's- True ... you know, down to A&E going, "I have a broken arm." Mm. But for something like mental health, it takes further than the point of hoping a bus will hit you before you actually talk to somebody, you know? Yes. And there's so many people have been through similar that I have.
Mm. And even when I s- I started writing on LinkedIn then sharing about my stories, and people were coming back to me. You know, so I, I was on there- Yeah ... as a fire engineer, but then I started writing about personal stuff, so totally kind of going against the, the LinkedIn professional fire engineer thing.
Yes. I was started sharing about my mental health and about my personal experiences, and so many fire engineers and people were coming back to me going, "Oh my God," like, "it's like you were writing my story" Mm. You know? And so yeah, so that's really, again, empowered me to... not empowered me to keep sharing, but it, it...
I don't know, I was going to keep sharing anyway, but it made me kind of feel again that I wasn't alone. I was writing it to almost get it out, and then I was finding out that it, I wasn't alone. And that feeling of I'm not the only one, you know? Mm. And the, the, the benefit of feeling that- Mm-hmm ... and then the 78% club came along after that- Yes
you know- Exactly ... and I was kind of going, yeah, if I can help other people to feel we're not alone, you know? And I'd say if you're keeping it real, from, uh, just to, uh, piggyback on what you said earlier about im- imposter syndr- syndrome, about how am I supposed to coach someone when I don't have things figured out.
But perhaps, and this could be your experience from sharing your expe- experiences on LinkedIn, people actually don't want the polished version of you. Mm. They want the real version of you, and this is- uh, what they're connecting with. So I don't know, is this your experience that the more real you are, the more people feel like connecting and reaching out to you?
Is the... Or, and is, if this is true, is this kind of giving you courage to keep going and keep sharing no matter- Um ... how messy and imperfect things are? Yeah, like it was a mixed bag, I'd have to say. So I was sharing- Okay, fair enough ... and I w- I wasn't expecting much. It was a bit, I was a bit apprehensive at the start.
Mm-hmm. And some posts I wasn't, I never got good engagement with my posts because the LinkedIn algorithm I find very hard to- Okay ... to click into, which a lot of people do. And I would be putting up what I felt were really good, heartfelt posts, and then somebody else would be putting up something that I was considering just total drivel.
Like, you know, "Oh, here's a lunchbox full of sandwiches. This represents my husband's love for me and my fa-", all this kind of stuff. And I was going, "That's not real." And I would be putting up this big heartfelt post, and they'd be getting a thousand likes, and I'd be getting two impressions, you know. It'd be- Mm-hmm.
So there was a, that was a bit of a dig, and it, it kinda, that really hit my ADHD as well, my rejection sensitivity dysphoria is- Ah, okay ... you know, "Oh, God, nobody's liking my post," you know, "Oh, should I even do this?" And that really, it started triggering my burnout again because I was going, "I'd have to get the perfect post.
I have to get a post right that's gonna get me these likes," and then nobody would like them, and you know. So I stopped after about a year because it was just bringing on my burnout again, and I tried to come back in a more sustainable way. But- Mm-hmm ... even that, I, I don't like LinkedIn as a platform like that because it, it feeds the negative, and it fed my negative views when I was looking at engineers and was going, "Oh, well, they can all get it.
They're getting promotions. Why can't I?" Mm. Even though I was getting promotions. But yeah, so when I was writing, I think because of the content, it was quite heartfelt and deep. And I think a lot of people, some people would message me, but they wouldn't like a post. So they would message and say, "Oh, wow, that really hit home with me."
But nobody was liking my posts- Mm ... because if you like it, then all your colleagues get to see it. See it. Oh, okay. And they go, "Oh, is Mary," you know, "Does Nata like that post? Is she depressed or something?" You know. Okay. So I think there was a lot of that, that people would've liked to have read it, and then the algorithm wouldn't pick it up as well because people were not liking it, whereas they may- Okay
have seen it, but it just wasn't getting that engagement. So yeah, like, but for me, it was a very therapeutic- Mm-hmm ... um, process doing that. I'd started a blog a few years ago in the middle of a very deep time, and I'd found that good. But ADHD, you know- Yeah ... doing it all kind, brilliant for about five posts and then totally forgot about it and left it.
But yeah, with the LinkedIn, it was, it was good in many ways, but it was very destructive in many ways as well, and- You know, for somebody with ADHD, with crippling RSDNI, it really made me feel bad about myself then, I'll tell you. Mm-hmm. So, but- Yeah ... as part of my whole journey out, I learned not to base any self-worth on how many likes I got on a LinkedIn post, and now I can post quite easily if I want, and I don't even need to go back and look at who's, how many it's got.
But yeah, I've- Yeah ... I think I've done that cathartic part, where I've got a lot of the deep stuff out, and it was all part of the journey through the coaching and through the, building the 78%- Mm ... Percent Club. And now I've stopped the coaching because I find my ADHD is more verbal, and I like- Mm-hmm
doing the talking, as you can probably see. I mean, in life coaching, the coach is meant to be silent and ask a powerful question to withdraw information from their- Communication, yes, yes, yes ... their client and let them discover, but I just wanted to talk the whole time. So when I'm doing, when I'm doing my workshops, I get to do most of the talking.
Talking, okay. And we get to have loads of engagement with people and stuff. Yeah. So it just suits my personality better. That's okay. It allows my ADHD kind of exuberance to come out. Mm. And, yeah, so. Okay. Thank you. Um- I forgot your question at this stage. No, that's okay. That's okay. I, we were talking about the- importance of sharing your story and being- Right
uh, vocal online. But, uh, uh, to be fair, Jason, social media is tough for anyone, let alone- Mm ... people who are battling with imposter syndrome on basically- Mm ... daily basis or even someone who has a mental hea- health condition like you. I wouldn't be too hard, and also maybe LinkedIn is another thing is maybe LinkedIn is not the best place.
And also keep in mind Ireland, Ireland is small. Uh, I feel like, uh- Mm ... everyone knows everyone, and, uh, and for the listeners, I'm also based in Ireland, so I know it. And, uh, people are probably afraid to be exposed because- Mm ... For... Yes, mental health came a long way where it was even maybe 5 or 10 years ago, but it's still a taboo.
Mm. There is still stigma attached to it, especially around ADHD, where it I think it's considered a, a character flaw or that something is wrong with you rather than the reality of brain chemicals just not working the way they're supposed to and the, the way they're working with neurotypical people.
So I'd say you are very brave. And the fact that people reached out to you, mm, directly- ... I think it's still encouraging, so, uh- Yeah ... very well done. And, uh, also well done on keep following w- where your heart is and passion is and what actually suits your style rather than trying to accommodate yourself in a mold- Mm
that's just not working for you. So that's great, too. So I would- Yeah ... like to close up with, uh, a question. So for someone listening who appears successful on the outside but is experiencing struggles and cognitive strain, hid- hidden cognitive strain, strain that you described and you, uh, were battling with, what would you like them to know?
What would be your message to people listening to this and relating to you? I suppose that if they relate to my story, they can immediately know, right, I'm not the only one, you know? Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm not ... I ... The, his story could be mine, you know? There's parts of his story could be mine. So you can realize that you're not the only one who's feeling like this.
I've shared my heart on LinkedIn and coaching courses and all sorts of places, and podcasts and everything, and I've never had a single negative comment from anybody about it, you know? Mm. So people, you, you might fear, thinking, "Oh my God, people are just going to laugh at me or judge me or something," but if you, because even the 78% statistic, if you mention to somebody that, you know, you struggle, that you're under the strain, they're probably experiencing it as well.
You know, you've got a, a very small minor- minority who potentially are not, you know? And 78% is one statistic. It's just the first I heard and I, I liked it. But some statistics put it up at 84, 86%. You know, so the chances are you'll land on somebody who is also experiencing similar thoughts. And I think one of the common traits of the people who don't experience these traits they're much more likely to be open-minded to it as well.
So if you do happen to land on one of them, they'll probably be very supportive about it and have a slightly more positive kind of spin to put on things maybe, you know? So, but it's, uh, it's really about recognizing that you're not alone in it, and recognizing that it's okay to talk to people about it, to say this out loud, to voice what's going on.
Whether you start off with one person, like your wife or your partner, your v- online GP who you've never met before, you know, or somebody that you can just say, "I'm struggling a bit." You know, even when I went online and I booked the therapist, I booked an online session, and we had our first session about a week later, and she's there, "Okay, so what would you like to talk about?"
And I was going, "Ah, you know, I'm grand really. You know, I'm fine." But, you know, I, even though I had booked it, I still was kind of hesitant to say. And it, it probably took me three sessions before I says, "Oh, I'm really depressed, you know?" Mm-hmm. "I feel like jumping off a bridge." But, you know, just being there, and she understood that as well, and she wasn't forcing it out of me.
And, you know, the GP was supportive of me. A few, like one of my GPs told me that the amount of people that are on antidepressants is absolutely huge. You know, they're, I'd say it's probably more equal than the 7 to 8% statistic. You know, so the chances are y- if you told somebody you were on antidepressants, they're probably gonna go, "Oh, I'm on them too.
Which ones are you on?" And, "Oh, yeah." You know, it's kind of like, "Oh, yeah." So, and as well as that, like it's when you have, it's like when you have ADHD or when you get diagnosed and you're going, "Wow, this is mad." And then you notice somebody else said something, and the two of you kind of go, "Oh, do you have ADHD?"
And you go, "Yep, do." And you're off into this big conversation as if you've known each other forever, and you're eventually talking to someone who understands your experiences. And that's what it's like. That's what the hidden cognitive strain is like. It's just like unburdening yourself from that because it's the damaging part is the hidden.
You know, if you can take away the hidden part, then it's- Mm ... cognitive strain, and then it's something we can go, "Right, how can we deal with this?" You know, "What do you do?" Or, "How would you recommend this?" Or, you know, "What do we do?" And then you take away the strain part hopefully, and then you're just left with cognitive, which is thoughts.
And, you know- Mm-hmm ... we can deal with thoughts. They're only one at a time. And in my workshops and in my lunch and learn type talks, we give little tips on little exercises, you know, just how to step back from your thoughts and kind of take a bit of a breather, put a spacer between this fact of, "I can't do this," to, "I'm telling myself a story that I can't do this."
And then you're kind of going, "Oh, notice I'm telling myself that story again." Kind of- ... you've taken yourself back from this, as I say, like a branded fact, you know, you are incompetent or I am incompetent. So yeah, I think it's just about being willing to talk, whether it be online, send somebody a message on LinkedIn.
Send me a message on LinkedIn, you know. I'm happy to talk to anybody about it, you know, and- Yes ... say, uh, I don't sell coaching. I don't sell anything like that. I, I deliver workshops and stuff, so I'm not looking for clients. But yeah, send, look me up on LinkedIn and send me a message- Yes ... and tell me- your biggest strain or tell me one of your experiences-
and I'll tell you one of mine. And, and it's just hearing that somebody else has got something else that you thought was the worst. You know, you're the only one who's this bad. And when- Mm ... you find out you're not that bad, that's, or you're not the only one who thinks you are. And back to the point about if 78% of people were as incompetent as I felt I was, the world couldn't function.
You couldn't build a- True ... skyscraper. You couldn't build a bridge. You couldn't design a computer, sending rockets to space. These aren't just done by the 22%, they're done by all of us, and we're not, we're not all incompetent, that's very true, and the hard evidence of, uh, proving us wrong in our own thoughts and- Yeah
believing that we're not capable as we think we are. Mm. Wonderful. And a good saying is that you don't have to believe everything you think, so. True. True, true, true. Yeah. Very excellent reminder, Jason. So yeah, if people want to connect with you, how they can do it? You mentioned LinkedIn, but anything else?
Yeah, like J- uh, go on LinkedIn, look at Jason McDaid. Uh, my website is the 78% or 78percentclub.com. Email is jason@78percentclub.com. Find me on LinkedIn and, uh, you know- Mm ... you can find me then that way. That's probably the easiest. And send me a message and, we can... If I'm the person that you tell your first- sign of, you know, that you feel that's your weakness or whatever it is.
If I'm that person that has to be the first, then, you know, I'm be proud to be that person for you and be that step in your journey. And I won't be the last person you tell. I, that's the only guarantee that I could give. I, I won't be the last person you talk to about it then. Jason, you're so generous and very kind, and thank you so much for sharing your story.
It was inspiring. It was also heartbreaking at some point, but I think most important thing is it was hopeful, at least I felt. It's very hopeful and encouraging for someone out there, uh, experiencing the same or similar things as you did. So I can't thank you enough for, uh- Mm ... being vulnerable, uh, with us and sharing your professional and personal life experience, and I really hope you're in a much better place now than- Yeah
than you used to be. I really Yeah I, I do Yeah, I'm a, 100% different. Mm. I'm, the difference between me is w- I think where I see it most is where I am with my kids and my wife, whereas I was, I grew up in, or when they grew up I was shouting and snapping, and I was the- Mm ... cross one, and everything was just a knife edge of...
And now I'm the fun one, and I'm playing and I'm annoying them. Like, my kids are 25 down to 15 of four kids, and we have a great relationship. You know, we're, we're all living here in a little house. We're d- we are, we're happy. I annoy them constantly with my- ... ADHD things, but my daughter's since been diagnosed.
My eldest son was diagnosed with autism, and, you know- Yeah ... the two others probably have their bits as well, but they didn't feel the need to go. But yeah, it's- Okay ... where I live now, you know, personally, if the bus is coming, you know I'm gonna getting right out of the way, and- Beautiful ... you know, and that's, that's where I am.
Beautiful. Beautiful. I'm so glad. I'm so glad you're at, at- Me too. Thank you, Jason. Thank you. You're amazing, and I wish you all the best and to, uh, to your family as well. And, uh, yeah, uh, just keep shining, keep sharing your story. Yes. I'm sure it will be encouraging for a lot of people out there.
Thank you so much. Thank you, Nada.
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