Living Outloud: Hebrews 1-6

We trace Hebrews 3–4 from Israel’s wilderness to our own hard edges, showing how unmet expectations breed distrust and why God’s rest still stands. We make the case for a weekly Sabbath as a humble, practical way to enter that rest and reorder our lives around trust.

• warnings from Psalm 95 applied to believers 
• how expectations harden hearts and dull trust 
• the layered meaning of God’s rest in Hebrews 4 
• Sabbath as pre-law creation rhythm, not legalism 
• practical ways to keep one day in seven 
• stories of family change through weekly rest 
• rest as humility and resistance to pride 
• aligning time, work, and identity with the gospel

Send us a comment. Love to hear how your rest day goes.

Chapters

• 0:22 Kelsey And Mike Kick Off Hebrews
• 1:11 Wilderness Warnings And Hardened Hearts
• 2:42 Expectations, Disappointment, And Distrust
• 5:28 From Unbelief To The Promise Of Rest
• 7:28 Defining God’s Rest In Hebrews 4
• 10:32 The Case For A Weekly Sabbath
• 12:16 Rhythm Over Legalism: How To Practice
• 14:29 A Family Changed By Rest
• 17:14 Rest As Humility, Pride As Barrier
• 19:38 Live It Out Loud: Take A Day Off

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:11

Hey, welcome back to the Out Loud Bible Project Podcast. This is our segment of Living Out Loud with Kelsey and Mike.

SPEAKER_01: 0:17

Hi, Mike.

SPEAKER_00: 0:18

That's Kelsey. And I'm Mike. We have started a new book of the Bible this week in the podcast, starting the book of Hebrews, which is there's a lot in Hebrews.

SPEAKER_01: 0:29

I feel like I say this every week, but when I was sitting down to study this to prepare for this conversation, I was like, oh my goodness, this is so much Bible to cover.

SPEAKER_00: 0:36

To be honest, I heard you sing that. You were like, this is so much content to cover. I heard your little song. Um but yeah, I mean it's a lot, but which is why we're not gonna cover everything. Let's just relieve let's rest from that, relieve ourselves of the pressure of having to do it all and talk about something specific. Spoiler alert, we're gonna talk about rest. But let's see how the author of Hebrews gets there. Because like I said in the podcast, the author of Hebrews kind of puts together a nice sermon, sort of like a just an organized logical progression of thoughts here.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11

And arguments are really building on themselves. They're not so much one-off pieces of wisdom like we might get from like James, for example. It's it really is a logical progression of building an argument. So it would be weird for us to jump into chapter four out of context.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28

But we also can't unpack all the context here in the time that we have. So let's just go into where the author of Hebrews here is talking about uh the people in the wilderness, God's people in the wilderness who just hardened their hearts and faced the consequence of not being able to, as he says, enter God's rest. And he he interjects this Old Testament parallel with modern-day warnings. He's like, This is why the Holy Spirit says, Today when you hear his voice, don't harden your hearts as Israel did. Um, and again in verse 12 of chapter 3, be careful then, dear brothers and sisters, make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. This is not a warning to unbelievers.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11

And he quotes it again in Hebrews 4, verse 7. He's quoting the Psalm of David, today when you hear his voice, don't harden your hearts. That's quoting Psalm 95. So it's just it's a repeated theme.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:21

Because it's apparently really important to this argument that the writer is is building.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

And he's talking to God's people. He's talking not to unbelievers who are like, ah, I no, I'm not gonna follow Jesus. No, this is people who say, Yeah, God's my God, and I'm gonna follow him. Well, what happens in our hearts that we harden our hearts and drift away from that. Uh, it's I mean, we let's look at the parallels. We've talked about the Exodus in our podcast before, um, and uh the story is kind of captured here a little bit in Hebrews, but we we see a lot of parallels with our from our life with the life of the the people in the wilderness, where yes, God rescued them from slavery. Like, thank you, God, for saving me. Thank you, God, for um, if it's not salvation in general, it could also talk about rescuing us out of some bad situation or a bad uh difficult season of life. God, thank you for that. That's great. And then just like they entered the desert, we enter a period where it's like, okay, I thought it was gonna be better now. I like I th I have the we have these expectations of what God will do or what God will or a relationship with him will be like. And then when they're not met, then we start having this crisis of faith. And it's not God's.

SPEAKER_01: 3:37

We pre-decide what freedom looks like.

SPEAKER_00: 3:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:39

Instead of asking him, what does our freedom look like? And what am I supposed to learn from it and how am I supposed to grow in it, we pre-decide what freedom ought to be. And then when that expectation isn't met, like you just said, we have a crisis of faith. Uh, and and that hardens our hearts. And it hardens our hearts like we read in what David wrote today when you hear his voice, don't harden your hearts. It's we harden our hearts against his word, against what he tells us, so that when he hasn't met our expectations and we're disappointed and we're disillusioned, the next time he says something, we're like, ugh, I don't really know if I believe that.

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

I don't know if I can trust him. It's not that we don't believe God so much. It's it's just we're trying to protect ourselves from being hurt again. Because when our expectations were not met, that's not God's fault. That was our expectations' fault. He's not obliged to meet our expectations. But in our pain, in our hurt, we can attribute, well, God hurt me. God failed me, and God didn't come through the way I hoped he would come through. And we hold that against him. And that is the heart-hardening process that can happen even to believers. May I say, even especially to believers, because we have this relationship, but we also have expectations, and if they're not lined up with his heart, then there's gonna be this conflict. And so we can find ourselves, like God's people in the wilderness, getting to a point where when they got to the promised land, then it was finally like, hey, I I know you're gonna need to have some faith here, but we're going into the season where that I've been bringing you and preparing you all along. But they had spent that whole time up to there, yes, getting to know him a little bit, but mostly just getting bitter and complaining, being disappointed in how he was not coming through the way that they wanted him to. So when the time came to enter his rest, as it says, they just didn't believe. And they were trying to protect themselves instead of trusting him that he is good and he is kind and he is wise. Can we relate to that in some way? Right?

SPEAKER_01: 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:40

So we we find some common ground here with God's people in the wilderness. We recognize this conflict in our heart that, like, I I want to follow him. I I say I'm a Christian, I say I follow him, but he I don't always understand where he's going and why he's doing what he's doing. And I don't know if I can follow him there. I don't know if I can follow him that way. I think I'm better off if I just kind of stick with what I know. Right. Not that we necessarily say these things, but we live these things when it comes to how we spend our money and how we spend our time and w how our conversations go.

SPEAKER_01: 6:13

And our political views and whether or not what the Bible lines up with what I feel should be true, and so I switch my political views to be less biblical and more in line with what I am more comfortable believing or whatever. And it it turns into a whole litany of problems when we start distrusting God's word because it doesn't line up with how I would act if I were God.

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:37

Um, and so so I find it interesting, though, that this whole argument about belief and hardening their hearts in the wilderness flows right into a conversation about rest.

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

Yeah. At the end of chapter three, it kind of introduces the concept. It was like what who who rebelled, even though they heard his voice? It was it was God's people. And who made God angry for 40 years? It was the people who sinned, it was God's people. And who was he speaking that they wouldn't never enter his rest? It was the people who disobeyed him, it was God's people. So let's see that so we see that because of their unbelief, they were not able to enter his rest. And so then Hebrews chapter 4 goes into I'm reading from the NLT, by the way. Hebrews chapter 4 says, God's promise of entering his rest still stands. So we ought to, well, this is an interesting phrase, tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. This good news that God has prepared this rest has been announced to us just as it was to them, but it did them no good because they didn't share the faith of those who listen to God.

SPEAKER_01: 7:37

This rest that God is talking about is so good, so imperative that we ought to tremble on behalf of people who are not receiving it. Like we ought to tremble at the thought of not receiving it ourselves. Like that's what this rest is. It is so crucial. It is imperative to living a godly life.

SPEAKER_00: 7:59

We ought to tremble with fear.

SPEAKER_01: 8:01

Like if we're gonna live it out loud, there ought to be some rest involved in our lives. Mike, can we try to define rest? Because from what I read here in Hebrews 4, there's not like there's not a definition that says, and God's rest is this. This is it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 8:17

I think that it means a lot of things, and a lot of things are alluded to in Hebrews 4. But can can you offer for us kind of a definition or an explanation of rest as it pertains to this passage?

SPEAKER_00: 8:30

Yeah, and we get little glimpses or hints of it through reading this section of Hebrews, like chapter four, about what he means by rest. It's like you said, it's not clearly defined. He does talk about where God rested on the seventh day from his work. So we are talking in part about like resting from physical labor, uh, but he's also talking about the rest of entering the promised land, right? So kind of uh and that it was not fulfilled when Joshua led them into the promised land, and it's available to us, not going to the physical promised land, but heaven, our eternal home, our resting place. Uh so it's talking about a little bit about eternal rest. And it's also talking about peace with God, that those people were not able to enter peace with God in that sense of rest. Uh so it's not a conception.

SPEAKER_01: 9:15

But also resting from our works and trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00: 9:19

We don't need yeah, we no longer need to work to earn our place with God and our acceptance of God. We can uh like in 410, for all who have entered into God's rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. Not just work of the week in and week out of your job, but also your labors, your work to earn anything from God. Um so yeah, it's not a concise definition, but it does kind of encapsulate all of those things when we talk about rest here in this chapter. Um so what can we do to enter this rest as as as maybe poorly we've defined it, but as as broadly as it seems to be defined.

SPEAKER_01: 10:03

And that's what I I am excited to talk about for the remainder of this conversation, Mike, because what is this segment? We call it living out loud, right? How do we live in accordance with scripture? How do we obey scripture literally? Um, how do we take it and make it apply over every area of our life? I think, I think the answer to living this passage out loud, the answer to living out loud, the truth that's revealed in Hebrews 4, is taking a literal, full 24-hour day rest every seven days. That one out of every seven days is set apart for Sabbath rest.

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

Counterpoint. Well, I thought you just said that that was only one aspect of this rest. Why do you mean that that's the takeaway to kind of follow through with all of those aspects of rest? Counterpoint B, I thought that's like Old Testament law.

SPEAKER_01: 10:54

I love that you brought those up because I l I love this conversation. I am not saying that Hebrews 4 is a proof for Christians today to have to take a one out of seven days Sabbath rest from work. The proof of that is Genesis 2, 2, when God did it and established it pre-law.

SPEAKER_00: 11:14

That was before the law.

SPEAKER_01: 11:15

It was before the law. So therefore, those things, just like he established marriage between man and woman, he established rest on the seventh day and tithing.

SPEAKER_00: 11:22

Ooh, spoiler alert for next week.

SPEAKER_01: 11:24

Um, and that carries throughout, regardless of which covenant we're operating in. Okay, so that's the answer to that. But secondly, I I think that with all of these different ways that rest is represented and and talked about in this passage and throughout scripture, I think the way we remind ourselves of all of those truths is by having a seventh day of rest. That's what I believe. I think that if we take when we take a seventh-day rest, a one out of seven days Sabbath day of rest, it is a physical rhythm of our lives, weekly reminder that we are not in charge of our salvation, that we cannot work for our salvation, we cannot work for our standing in Christ. We it is not all up to us, it is all up to him. And so the remind the truths of rest is an eternal thing. We are reminded that we're reminded of our eternal resting home that we're looking forward to when we rest once every seven days. The truth of I am not responsible for my salvation, I cannot earn it through works. I must r I can rest from works because the work is finished with Jesus on the cross. I'm reminded of that when I rest every single seven days. The truth that God alone is continually offering his children rest, and it has nothing to do with our works, but everything to do with his faithfulness to us and his promises to us, that we're reminded of that when we rest every seven days. The truth that that he, that our belief and our faith in him by grace alone is what saves us, and that unbelief makes us just look like the world and we will miss it. That's we were reminded of that when we take a rest. Because what does the world do? The world gets in as much work as they can every single week. The world works 80, 100 hours a week to try to make themselves successful, to try to make a name for themselves. The world works. The world does not stop, the world does not rest. The world doesn't rest. And so when we rest as Christ followers, we are saying our priorities are not aligned with the world, our priorities are aligned with God. And we recognize that no matter what I'm doing, I could be in giving my life to ministry and service of other people, I could be serving orphans and widows in the purest form of religion, and yet I, by resting one out of every seven days, I am declaring to myself and the watching world that it is ultimately not my responsibility. It is nothing that I can do that will make any good happen in the world. It is only the work of God through me. It is the work of Christ through me and in me that changes the world around me. I am not responsible for it. So I can rest because God is still at work. Like it's all these things that I think we're reminded of when we take that rest. So I'm very passionate about this topic, if you can't tell. And I'm passionate about it, Mike, because you and I have experienced the difference that this makes, right? Like we are have been committed to rest every seven days. And I can tell you that being being committed to a rest every seven days, if I push seven days without taking that Sabbath rest, by the eighth day, my body is like, we need to take a break. Like my body is used to that, that rhythm. My mind is used to the rhythm, my heart is used to the rhythm, my soul is used to the rhythm. So when I when we push through, and I'm I'm being very careful to not say Sunday is Sabbath or Saturday is Sabbath. It's one out of every seven days. And I say that because we can attest to our the way our ministry operates, oftentimes we're serving somewhere on Sunday. We are working on a weekend. We don't get just every weekend. Now, if you have a life and a schedule that works five days a week and you can take one of those weekend days to be a rest day, then go ahead and do that. But if you're like us and your schedule kind of shifts and changes, I don't think it's so important. I think that would be um legalistic to say like every single Sunday or every single Saturday has to be a Sabbath. That kind of talk about Sabbath is a mosaic law thing. But the idea, the concept of taking one out of seven days and it being intentional about it. So for example, typically our Sabbath is a Saturday because we serve and we work on Sundays. If, however, we're traveling on Saturday to get somewhere for Sunday, or we're serving in an event Saturday, we're doing something else Saturday, that day is no longer a full day of rest. So we take Mondays. Or if all else fails, we take a Friday. Like, but we find one out of seven days to rest. And it has really, honestly, for me, relieved my shoulders of the burden of having to feel like I'm super important. And if I stop, everything falls apart. Like, like it's relieved me of feeling that way because I have to admit, one out of every seven days, I'm just gonna let everything fall to the ground. You're not gonna hear from me if I'm on my Sabbath. You're not gonna get a reply from an email, you're not gonna get a reply from a text. Like I'm just you're not gonna hear from me. And that's okay. Everything isn't gonna fall apart. And if it does, then it wasn't a God thing. So um, we've watched friends of ours who used to not take a Sabbath at all, a friend of ours who works for herself and works from home, and then her husband left his job and works with her too. Like she was working 80, 100 hours a week, and she's a believer, but she never took a Sabbath because she thought that that was an old testament mosaic law thing. She didn't think it still applied to her. We challenged her on that. We challenged her, like, hey, just like try it, right? Just see what got it. Try taking one day out of every seven off.

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

It's like talking to a person with financial issues who doesn't tithe and saying, Well, what if you just try just try it? Just try it just try tithing.

SPEAKER_01: 17:13

Just see what happens.

SPEAKER_00: 17:14

And just see if your financial issues don't resolve.

SPEAKER_01: 17:17

And in that the in the case of this friend, she tried it. She said, Okay, I'm gonna take a rest every one out of every seven days. I'm just gonna turn off the computer and I'm not gonna go to it, I'm not gonna work. And her family was revolutionized in front of our eyes. Like her kids got closer to each other. There was less infighting, sibling rivalry. There was her husband felt closer to her kids. She felt closer to her husband. Her kids stopped looking at her as mom who just works all the time and they actually had fun and are making memories together. Like it's remarkable how this one day of rest and her turning off work changed their family. I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm not saying the kids never fight, but it changed their family, and if she was sitting with us, she would admit to that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:57

Whenever we bring up this conversation, there's a list of excuses a mile long about why I can't do this or why I shouldn't do this or why I don't need to do this, right? Like from believers, from Christians, whenever we come up with this conversation, there there are people saying, well, you know, whether they're trying to argue biblically about it being Old Testament or why it's gonna be, you know, not possible for them, or due to the nature of their work, or their boss wouldn't understand, or whatever, or their family wouldn't can't do it, whatever. Too busy. Like there's excuses that we come up with. Yeah. However, when we come back to it, Christ follower, why wouldn't you want to rest? I see this ultimately kind of going to the heart of resting as like John the Baptist is famous for have saying for saying toward the end of his ministry, look, he must become greater, Jesus, he must become greater, I must become less. And I think that's the heart behind this rest of God must become greater, I must become less. Because when we rest, it's a surrender and it's a sacrifice. It's a sacrifice of time, of saying, hey, I know I could do something that I think is valuable with this, just like money, just like possessions, just like something. Like, I think I could do something valuable with this, but I'm gonna give it to you instead, trusting that you can do something better with it than I could do. It's this surrender of like, hey, you know what? I am not the solution to my problems. I am not the solution to other people's problems. My work is not changing lives. Jesus changes lives. And he doesn't need me to be working on all cylinders, he doesn't need me to be perfect, he doesn't need me to burn the candle on both ends in order to accomplish that. And so it's a humility thing. Rest is humility. And so if you don't want to rest, if you don't feel like you can, there that just raises some questions of Go ahead and say it, Mike.

SPEAKER_01: 19:44

Just jump in, just like say it.

SPEAKER_00: 19:46

You're being prideful.

SPEAKER_01: 19:47

There it is.

SPEAKER_00: 19:48

You're being arrogant.

SPEAKER_01: 19:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 19:50

So rest. You're seeking the heart of God and looking to remove yourself more from the equation. We're never gonna find ourselves as long as we're trying to find ourselves and our purpose. We're only gonna find ourselves when we find our position in God's rest. So let's do everything we can to enter God's rest.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

And so today what we are proposing is that a thing that we can do to enter God's rest in all of the ways we define rest. A thing that we can do and obey starting right now is take that Sabbath day once out of every seven days of the week, where you're not working your day job, you're not doing kingdom work, you're not doing ministry, you are resting, resting in Him, resting with your family, spending time away from all the other callings on your life throughout the week. We're proposing that by doing that, you will recognize all of the other ways that rest can be defined. So that is what we're proposing for living out loud this week is to enter rest intentionally once every seven days. Take a full day off.

SPEAKER_00: 20:53

So by the next time we chat, I hope to hear that you've rested. Let us know how it goes. Send us a comment. Love to hear how your rest day goes.

SPEAKER_01: 21:00

But if you send us a comment on Monday, you won't hear back because we're probably taking seven.

SPEAKER_00: 21:05

Excellent. All right. Well, this is good. We're gonna see you next time for another Living Out Loud.