TRAP: The Real Adviser Podcast
Four business-owning entrepreneurial knuckleheads chew the fat on the sometimes murky, always quirky, world of UK and Irish personal finance.
TRAP: The Real Adviser Podcast
35 - Crushing Content Creation
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TRAP LIVE IS HAPPENING ON 9th MAY 2024. REGISTER YOUR INTEREST HERE: www.therealadviserpodcast.com
In this latest pile of TRAP, the Trap Pack discuss
- Topical issues, including a Royal London/Lang Cat report on value, the strong market close to 2024, some boring Bitcoin updates, the wickedness of pension complications, and client Xmas pressies - yes or no?
- Meat and Potatoes: Crushing Content Creation
- Questions posted by our beloved TRAPists www.twitter.com/@paulcleworth https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulcleworth
- Culture Corner
Links referred to in the show:
- AS: https://pca.st/episode/cc60d64a-b361-455c-8366-ed7be8ce04cf://pca.st/episode/cc60d64a-b361-455c-8366-ed7be8ce04cf
- https://adviser.royallondon.com/campaigns/people-powered/deliver-value-for-your-clients/explore-our-meaning-of-value-research/
- NL: it’s almost wicked how complicated pensions have become again. The layman has no chance: https://techzone.abrdn.com/anon/public/pensions/finance-bill-tax-free-cash-2024?Opendocument=&utm_campaign=ADV-TEC-Not-Eligible-18122023&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&utm_content=CSLAR000000163451&SHA=155d4e8dc50eeae367eafd2801a697a915f33e1ab43bb7a960f033783dd77950
- AS GEM ; Hugh van Cuylenburg Video! https://watch.amazon.co.uk/detail?gti=amzn1.dv.gti.374d37ba-da4f-4b30-a297-912cfea97173&territory=GB&ref_=share_ios_movie&r=web
- AS - Jeff Bezos on Lex Friedman https://youtu.be/DcWqzZ3I2cY?si=dvG79OxOkStq9c6F
- NL: Trillions (Kindle) by Robin Wigglesworth: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=trillions+robin+wigglesworth&crid=3G26J5N00FU6M&sprefix=trillions%2Caps%2C84&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_9
Robin was on Bulletproof Entrepreneur S2E3: https://pca.st/ro3od2ni - AH - Historical Newspapers - https://www.historic-newspapers.co.uk/
- CW: Accepting Change - a meditation by Sarah Blondin https://insighttimer.com/sarahblondin/guided-meditations/accepting-change#:~:text=This%20has%20found%20me%20at,and%20give%20to%20this%20world
- https://stevesanduski.com/bnas-james-conole/
- https://www.justinwelsh.me/the-operating-system-grow-monetize-your-linkedin
- https://www.ship30for30.com/
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Welcome to The Real advisor podcast, t r a p twerp please follow us and join in the conversation on Twitter at advisor podcast where you can suggest ideas and themes you'd like the truck team to discuss. Also remember to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a six out of five star review on iTunes. Doing all this really really helps us which means we can do more to help you. Now let's head over to the studio for the latest pile of track
Nick Lincoln:yes and D there Trappist. Welcome back to what many people are calling episode 35 of the real advisor podcast te R A P trap. My name is Lincoln and joining me as ever in the digital studio of doom are the three other Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Alan the storyteller Smith call the voice Witcher and and the ultra heart Now gentlemen, we have a show packed full of app salutely nothing so let's start packing it straight away with some more high energy review reads and my good friend Mr. Andrew Hart.
Andy Hart:Thank you, Nick. Merry Christmas, everybody. Okay, first reviews entitled just what I needed by John J. fivestars. Amazing podcast and the banter between the group makes it feel like really relaxed like you're listening to a chat in a local pub. I started my business late last year so that I could provide full fat financial planning with factor based investing. So the insights into the experiences of all and podcast has been invaluable. final review is from Kelly Kay. Her username is UK Kelly entitled five stars my friend and colleague recommended your show. After advising for nearly 22 years, I want to let you know that I find the show really helpful, invigorating. Plus it makes me chuckle which is an added bonus love the collaboration and the dynamics between the team. Keep up the great work back to you boss.
Nick Lincoln:Great stuff. Thanks, Eddie. Thank you, John and Kelly really do appreciate those reviews do keep them coming on in. Okay, let's go over to tropical tidbits and put a sort of timestamp on this episode in Episode 35. A trap and we'll lead off with you Mr. Smith, the Lang cat thing.
Alan Smith:Well, first of all, yes. Merry Christmas to all our listeners and supporters. Thank you very much to my fellow trap pack. We agreed that we would appear on the show. For those of for those of you watching on YouTube. Yeah, fully decked out in our festive gear. And I'm the only one who bloody did it. Oh, Mr. Hart. He's got his he's got a hat. A little hat? No expense spent. Well done. At least Carl's got a Christmas tree to celebrate Christmas in your in your home. Nicholas
Nick Lincoln:we are aware of the date
Alan Smith:All right. Well, Happy Christmas Everyone
Andy Hart:loves turkey or beef Nick.
Nick Lincoln:Yeah, anything but Turkey. There's a reason only have brussel sprouts in Turkey once a year because they're bloody awful. So anything but Turkey.
Alan Smith:Right back on with the show. Topical titbits another industry report this time from our friends at the Lang cat in association with Royal London. Royal London, according to their website are the largest mutual insurance company in the UK, I suppose. Because all the rest of them have kind of gone or de Mutual's. But anyway, there's still a big operation. We don't have much of a relationship with them, but they seem to still be doing some interesting things. So Royal London hired the Lange cat, to do a report to create a report, do some research speak to clients and customers have advisors speak to advisors and they've got what is called the inaugural, the meaning of value report. Obviously, this is a follow up to consumer duty which came in and this whole big ongoing debate around value for money. I thought it's quite interesting study four pages long, and there are some interesting parts of it that are worth reviewing. First one is a bit obvious 45% of consumers defined value as a combination of getting value for money and getting their money's worth meaningless. 16% define it as price which again, I think is pretty obvious to us. It's not just about price, a relatively small number. Considered just only about price. advisors believe that clients value peace of mind 66% Two thirds of advisors believe that their clients value peace of mind most than helping them reach their financial goals and then clear communication. The interesting point perhaps the most interesting part, the whole report, I would still recommend you have a read through at least browse through it. There are some useful tidbits within it. But the thing that I don't think is particularly well acknowledged by a number of advisors, and I'll put our hands up here as well is that a quite a large number, at least 50% of consumers who paid for investment advice, say that it is the most important thing for investment returns positive investment returns are the most important aspects of how they determined value for money. And we might have mentioned this in the podcast before, it's certainly a theme that's come up in our firm of the last year or two, in that we kind of almost have felt that the investment piece was a battle we've already won. We know how to invest capital wisely. And we've probably been less kind of vocal about investment investment returns, how you construct investment portfolios, how you optimize how you maximize, etc. Because we've we've all evolved much more to the Canada, the planning the strategy, the delivering good outcomes for clients from a kind of lifestyle, or full fat financial planning basis. So interesting, this report can't remember how many people which is a reasonable number of consumers, who are clients of financial advisors, have said that their single most important determinant of value is positive investment returns a useful reminder for all of us, as we think about our client comes next year, Mr. Hart,
Andy Hart:really good point. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.
Nick Lincoln:Very, very critical.
Andy Hart:I think when people get into financial planning, they get too into it, and sometimes can become a bit too evangelical. And you're right, in an initial meeting with the client, you say, are the investments as easy, we'll deal with that later on, we've just got a cheap low cost portfolio that fixes that problem, and they push it to the side, I've probably made that mistake a few times in the past. So now it is their life savings is a central thing. The investment piece is massively important. So I do put it you know, front and center, and then just to see their appetite of how much they want to speak about it. So that is a note of warning to younger advisors that come through the once they realize that you're right, the investment journey has been, or the investment battle has been won, like we sort of know the answer to it, but still have it front and center is their life savings. And they are seeking advice around that. I mean, me and Carla spoken about this over the years, what do you call yourself to call yourself a financial planner, a financial adviser or investment advisor, I think a lot of people are actually looking for investment advisors, nobody's looking for a financial planner, quite a few people looking for a financial advisor. So meet the clients where they are, if you've got to play some kind of game to attract more clients, then give them the good stuff. So be it you know, this is a sales profession. Anyone else?
Carl Widger:Yeah, meet them where they're at, you know, and then bring them through the process. But I think it's a really, really good point. And certainly something we've, it's funny when you start out and you you're very evangelical about the whole financial planning process. It's like, you know, it's all about the planning. And exactly, Alan and, and Andy and myself have had this conversation in the last probably 18 months, like, we need to start talking a little bit more, we need to focus a little bit more on the investment. So I think it's a very well made point. And I think learning for everybody, certainly.
Nick Lincoln:Okay, good stuff. Thank you very much. Very good point mu. And he's really, really good point strong. Very good. Well,
Andy Hart:thank you, Nick. Thank you. Thank you for showing up today. Really appreciate it, mate.
Nick Lincoln:Thank you just for being in my life, call market hours.
Carl Widger:The market problems we should say, right, so we've got maybe some feedback that we're getting a little bit too touchy with each other. So we're having to come by moment. Christmas time, after all, so we're all going to be so nice to each other. I'm so respectful.
Alan Smith:Let's see how long these last minutes to the end of this
Andy Hart:shaking table.
Carl Widger:minute the record button goes off. It's true. We're never doing that again. Anyway. Yes, the market bounce has been fantastic, a little Christmas present for all of our clients to whom maybe we're getting a little bit worried. God knows who knows when this is going to end. But there has been a nice little rally. Of course, all the predictions are going to be due out in the next little while and you'll open your newspapers in first of January. And you'll have loads of people telling you they know what's going to happen next and their predictions for the market. Correct. They are totally and utterly pointless, of course, but it is very nice to finally be delivering lots of good news. And those of us who have portfolios that are tilted towards small caps are getting an even extra little bounce at the moment. So it is really really good I look at it you know what it's actually lovely to reward clients who have been sticking with the plan just sitting on their hands looking out the window and now they're gonna get the benefit of doing exactly that so let's enjoy it while we have it and we were never going to predict what's going to happen next but it's nice and thank you for that little Christmas present the markets Mr. Hot
Andy Hart:by the time this show launches, we might have hit a new all time high in the s&p 500 We're we're about percentage away from it so yeah, hopefully that that happens and then who knows where we're going for next year but yeah, all the predictions will come in and obviously some of them be right and most of them will be wrong but yeah, ignore basically
Alan Smith:yeah, it is nice when are kind of buying whole stick to the plan stick to the program come sit we we're not we're not you know, markets go up markets go down as the most challenging thing the last couple of years as markets have gone sideways and that's kind of almost the worst the worst version. When markets we've talked about the heart that's pretty hawkish good down you know, future anticipated returns future expected returns are just higher if you get down 20% You just know long term reversion to mean etc. I'm terrible for I think you do this as well. Now I see newspaper articles and I just clip them out and I save them for future reference. Yeah, this is another one so there's one about a year ago which I'll I'll probably share later just city wide magazine you know they have they're looking at you know, active investment managers and the headlines I can't remember exactly what it says along the lines of You know, this is a year ago. Fears of impending recession frighten asset managers out of equities so holding bonds in cash is what a lot of active managers have chosen to do and as Andy says we're about to hit if we haven't done by the time this goes out but there there abouts okay, what's the s&p is up over 20% I think not that not that's the only index in the world but it is sort of half the more and more
Andy Hart:as the biggest one isn't it really is the proxy biggest stock market Yeah,
Alan Smith:it is the up usually but so all these you know a significant number of active managers have kind of dialed down their equity exposure a year ago it probably exactly the wrong time to do it is just another you know, as what's the what's the phrase, what's the Nick Murray, humans humans are a failed
Nick Lincoln:investor. Human nature, human
Andy Hart:nature, human nature stuff. Yeah, yes. The s&p 500 year to date is up 22% The last market high we hit was on the third of January 2022. It's almost like a pure two year slice which is quite interesting. Again, it's all just meaningless really at the end of the day but yeah, good news for all historical investors that have stuck with the plan throughout these cycles markets. Okay.
Carl Widger:Great point. Great great point Ireland
Andy Hart:yeah, thanks for bringing alcohol that's
Nick Lincoln:now it's too much done. I'm done with it. zip
Alan Smith:drive a quite talking
Nick Lincoln:to things bouncing Bitcoin Mr. Smith, I'm
Alan Smith:gonna give you this. Are you gonna keep smiling all of you keep smiling and nodding and supporting me through this conversation? It just got so involved is the s&p is up 22% bitcoins up nearly 200 Say 160% last time this year percent this year alone. I've had a couple of conversations that I'm we all agree we all agree Bitcoin and specifically Bitcoin not other crypto Bitcoin but it's not a traditional investment. It doesn't it doesn't have assets. It doesn't it doesn't produce yield. It's not a real asset is a gamble is the speculation we know that. So effectively. A digital is effectively a digital currency. or digital Yeah, they should go digital currency. But I've got a couple of conversations with smart clients in this this year. And the same would it be any sort of damage in me holding 1% Specifically the said 1% of my assets. I just bought by you know, a couple of bitcoins what what's the Bitcoin now? $40,000.25 times before you want those? Yeah, yeah. So owning owning two or three Bitcoins. How terrible is that? And I'm not against it as a thought as a thought experiment as an idea on the basis that fundamentally contradicts our core investment philosophy. But in the same way as we've talked about before, you've got your family fortress and you've got your investment playpen, chuck it in the investment playpen. If it goes to zero, it's not going to kill you. If it does do 10 times 100 times 1000 times the next 10 years. You'll probably be quite glad you did it. Any thoughts on that? And the you've always had a vague interest and
Andy Hart:yeah, I kept an eye on this obviously because our clients are getting involved in it. I think more people on cryptocurrency the pension in the UK, something like 64% of adults have cryptocurrency and 63% of pensions or some so it is ridiculous. We've gone through this crazy sort of bull market and loads of people made loads of money. Sorry a few people made loads of money a lot of people lost a load money. Yeah, keep a rough eye on it like a keep a rough eye and all the other weird and wacky stuff that gets invented just to throw it into the, you know, avoid anything that's working now bucket and we stick to things which have always worked. But you're right, if a client needs a release, and they got to buy some tiny, something just to keep up with the Joneses or the people down the golf club, then they're not knock yourself out. Obviously, you're not providing advice you say? Yep, crack on. But I think Nick's reached his boiling point with this one. So we'll move on. But great point. Great point. Thanks for bringing that up.
Alan Smith:Right. Okay. Don't Don't ask Nick. Just move on.
Nick Lincoln:I have nothing to add. It's, it's, it's it's anathema to me. Pension simplification in 2006. It's a cliche to say it seems so long ago that it almost never happened. And just just I read a note from the formerly respected brand called Standard Life, who sent out this quite good technical briefings about tax free cash around pensions, and it is now so complicated for a certain small segment of our population. But it is so complicated, I think it's almost wicked. I know we say it's really good that things are complicated, because if things were simple, the clients would need us and that's true. They need us for our technical expertise. You know, most of our value I think comes from behavior modification and keeping people sticking to the plan. You don't need technical expertise, expertise for that. But yeah, if everything was straightforward, and vanilla, people would have less need to say financial advisor but but the rules around this now are just so it's an I'm gonna say wicked, I mean, wicked in the cool sense that the youth might say, I mean, wicked as Bloody wicked, whoever. I'll give you an example. This would be quite dull, I think so you slightly Bowman's when I'm gonna make this point where by reading this scheme specific tax free cash protection, the formula is open brackets, the fifth of April 2006, tax free cash times 1.8 million divided by 1.5 million close brackets, plus 25% of times open bracket retirement fund minus open brackets, fifth of April 2006 fund times current lifetime allowance divided by 1.5 million close to brackets. And the latest Finance Bill simplifies that slightly to this being about 14 different brackets.
Andy Hart:I mean, obviously just rest with that again, Nick, could you transfer?
Nick Lincoln:I couldn't I couldn't even say it, could I smooth it. I don't know there's something wrong with our system where you can where the thing could be. So I think it'd be a really positive thing just just up in order to say, You know what, get rid of all this crap. Yes, some people are going to benefit, they'll have a double dip on their tax free cash or what have you. It's a tiny sliver, this stuff is so complicated. I just, I just think it's wrong. I think it's it's a moral, there you go just anywhere.
Carl Widger:So we're on the road to simplification here in Ireland, and it is actually working, although it's kind of comfy. Like, you got to suffer a little bit of time of complexity to get to the simplification, which I suppose is difficult sometimes for clients to get get their heads around. But we have a much more simple calculation in terms of lump sums, the first 200 grand is tax free, and the next 300 grand is at the standard rate of tax. So it's lovely. It's like, you know, there's their lifetime allowance as they're talking about maybe increasing the standard fund threshold from the current 2 million or over to go kind of back towards the 5 million that it was at. But yeah, I think, to be fair, the Irish system has a really good pension system. And it is that there's been an awful lot of work over the last 25 years, probably the stage to, I suppose, give the pension freedoms that you guys have had over the last couple of years. And it's definitely going down to roads where you'll be in either a master trust or what we call appear to say, and that's good. And the more if people can get their heads around it. I think there'll be a little bit more engaged. So the simpler it is the better so yeah, it's put that that cocktail you just described there and it sounds absolutely ridiculous. Like who's who's Yeah, that makes no sense to anybody thing
Nick Lincoln:is it's written by civil service Swank's who have their lovely final salary pensions, applying these laws to us money purchase plebs. That's the other thing that great as well. Yeah.
Carl Widger:And there is the reason by the way that we're talking about potentially increasing the standard phone threshold in Ireland is because the civil servants when they the high earning civil servants when they get to the end, because they're on DB pensions, they have to you have to put a value on it, and they're finding themselves in excess of the 2 million. That is why the minister has announced a review of the
Andy Hart:isn't it judges in the UK NIC that have the most you know, the best DB system is like One the 15th or so
Nick Lincoln:they've got a separate carve out in legislation I know Kier Starmer?
Andy Hart:So he's voting for Christmas is unbelievably
Nick Lincoln:trolling the rest of us, we'll just make our own little rules, but you log in, you'll just carve it out. So it doesn't apply. It is it is what it is.
Alan Smith:There are calculators that exists that you could just sort of plug into details, net, your client details, fund value, etc. And it's just, it's just a calculation, isn't it? It's just a check in here,
Andy Hart:but it's just spits up spreadsheets that we
Nick Lincoln:spreadsheets, spreadsheets. So why do you need a spreadsheet? To make it that complicated? You need an Excel spreadsheet with macros enabled, otherwise, you know, it's just like, Come on,
Carl Widger:we used to have a system whereby
Andy Hart:you've lost macros enabled
Carl Widger:for saying, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You had to have like you there was revenue maximum that you could put in and it depended on your existing fund value, your age, and your salary and lots of other stuff. And they've just scrapped it all they said right, put in whatever you wanted to appear, say. Brilliant, much more simple. And yes, there are, you know, high earners who are who are sitting on a lot of money in companies and they're going to benefit. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here, if it's simple for everybody, and everybody knows, and a few people at the higher end are going to benefit Well, good luck to them. But everybody else is in a much more simple system, that if the simpler it gets the more engaged people are going to be simple as that.
Nick Lincoln:Well, well said and well done for the Irish and their continuing cultural differences.
Carl Widger:And then also, they'll also see that I was deeply uncomfortable with the content of some who today's Yes. Always to the Irish versus UK cultural differences Okay, that was the last time we were saying that was at the the World Cup match when Ireland beat Scotland and bizarrely guys, Andy Farrell has been named Manager of the Year here in Ireland. Well, that's a bit mad, but anyway, was
Nick Lincoln:the competition. Yeah, who
Alan Smith:else was up for? International?
Nick Lincoln:Christmas gifts smithy, bring it back, bring it back before we descend? Yeah. Yes,
Alan Smith:obviously, this is going this time of the year. I just wanted I haven't spoken to you guys about this before. I just wondered what if anything you do around kind of clients and Christmas gifts. And I say this from a background. First of all, as you know, my other half is Scandinavian, she's Swedish. They don't have the concepts of Christmas cards, for example, donor Christmas cards. And I've always thought Christmas cards a bit of a waste of time, actually, you send them out and you'd write scribble a note on it. And so we, for years, we haven't sent out any Christmas cards. And now when we used to get loads coming back, I'm sure everyone else noticed. So they don't send us a card. So bit by bit, you get blackballed, but on top of friends, friends and family, so now we need to send Christmas cards, no received them. But from a, from a business and a corporate viewpoint. years ago, some years ago, in our firm, we used to for clients paying fees above a certain level, we brought a threshold we would buy a it was specifically it was a small hamper from Fortnum and Mason. And it cost about 50 quid, right but it looks much more just the packaging was absolutely you know, world class beautiful and have it delivered to people's homes. And it was basically a bottle of champagne and some sort of high end chocolates. But in a nice box, little drawer, you pulled out a fit. And I always thought the clients paying you, you know, pretty significant sums. That was that was a bargain for us to send it out just to sort of say Merry Christmas and, you know, enjoy the break, etc. But then it led to it just began to be sort of lots of issues and problems. Some clients that were away for Christmas, didn't receive it delivered to next door neighbors, some received it and then didn't know who it was from because as the note wasn't put on properly, some received it and said, Look, we're fine. You don't need to bother, don't bother sending it and it was a sort of, there was a sentiment of us kind of being overly grateful to them being clients germane instead of just sometimes it's kind of it's a mutually beneficial arrangement, we deliver great value they they effectively pay us for the value. So why are you paying anything else? So we had kind of mixed experience over several years. So we stopped doing it. We're just sort of pulled the plug on doing these Christmas gifts. And then we had a bunch of people saying Oh, don't get our Christmas get I always look forward to that every year. So I wish we hadn't sort of started in the first place. I just thought kicking it Around amongst the group here. What if anything do you guys do to either to acknowledge reward thank or just you know, this time of year Christmas, Christmas gifts or otherwise? What do you do, Andy?
Andy Hart:Good point out and thanks for raising it. Yeah, so I didn't say either the same every year I send all of my active clients our hotel Shakalaka Christmas box. I think it cost about 30 quid it's nicely packed, wrap it nicely packed etc with a with a gift note. I also send Diane
Nick Lincoln:in diabetic day get that as well. I also
Carl Widger:as my as a client of yours, Andy is mine on the way because I haven't got a jet.
Andy Hart:I mean, proper clients, financial planning clients, if I had to send it to financial advisor clients, I'd be I'd be bankrupt.
Carl Widger:We see we don't matter. Oh, so
Andy Hart:So I sent them over the last couple of weeks, I send about 50 boxes. I started doing it since the start of Maven advisor. And you're right Alan clients expected one year, I think they'd deliver them quite late and my best client, she called me up and said you send them the chocolates this year. That's it. Don't worry. They're on their way. And she liked them so much. She had a she had an operation. And she said to me, can you send a box of chocolates to the the guy who starts operation on so I got myself into a whole heap a mess. But anyway, that's what I do I send the box. I send the box of hotel shock and chocolate. And it goes down really well. Yeah, keep it simple. It's not it's not overly expensive. But it obviously, you know, cost a few quid to send 50 boxes. But um, yeah, I enjoy doing it. It's a nice touch. But yeah,
Carl Widger:we don't send cards, we don't send gifts. We used it. But now we just make a donation to a charity. And we just we tell our clients that that's what we're doing. Because I'm not sure Alan, I think Christmas cards may be kind of just a thing of the past because I don't see any or many coming in here. Not getting any home either. But that's probably because I didn't say because you said Christmas card in many, many years. So it's probably not being reciprocated. But yeah, I just like the idea of look, you know, business has we've had a good year, we're going to make a donation, proper proper donation to a charity, and we tell our clients so that's what we're going to do. And yeah, that's that's I'm, it's not right or wrong. That's what we do.
Andy Hart:Nick, what do you do? Nothing.
Nick Lincoln:Christmas, nothing at all.
Andy Hart:So I'm the only one who says clients Christmas gifts. Interesting.
Nick Lincoln:I send birthday cards. I'm sure you know, I've got some of this. I do send birthday cards to my clients. And if they have life events, then I'll send them some, you know, a bottle of champagne. So moving house or business promotion somebody or business sale, that kind of thing. I just think Christmas time everybody gets some, there's so much stuff going out there. Yeah, it gets lost in the mix. So
Alan Smith:you're right, really? Yeah, we did that as well. We do. I think it varies between advisors, some advisors send birthday cards to every single client, some do it for big birthdays, as they say 50 6070, whatever. And we will generally will on those ones on the big birthdays, again, send a bottle of champagne. I will send a bunch of flowers that are both I think all these things good did do good downbeat about absolutely right. As you get older, Nick, you I can tell you being the oldest here, you get less and less birthday cards less and less acknowledgement that that your birthday comes and goes. No. And as you say Christmas is just busy, and it just loads of things flying around. So you're focused on birthdays, I think if you're gonna do anything, Andy, if
Andy Hart:we're talking about gifts, a superb thing that I've done over the years, I must have sent at least 20 of these. There's a website called historical newspapers. So I send clients on their big birthdays, five and zero. So 5560 6570 I send them usually the times if it's available the day that they were born. I've also done it to myself. So I've got the times of the day I was born center myself. And brilliantly. I'm born on a Sunday. So the newspapers enormous. I did a whole podcast on actually, I'm just about to send the client who's 60 on the 23rd of December, the times on the day that he was born. It's a brilliant gift. It's the best gift they get, you know, it's a big birthday, they get loads of crap from everyone. And then this beautiful box arrives they're like What the hell is this? And it's like the the newspaper the day they were born to spend all day reading it. It's definitely worth doing it. So if you want to do it for your clients, it's called Historical Newspapers dot code at UK is a great site. So yeah, check it out.
Nick Lincoln:Thought that whoever thought that was a birthday present idea is a fantastic Okay, given that a damn good thrashing I think that's it for topical tickets isn't a gentleman. Yes, it is Nick. Okay, let's in that case, move on to the meat and potatoes of episode 35 of the red advisor podcast. And this is the third of three episodes we've done on the back. So even my simple math tells me it's episodes 3334 and 35. Around the subject of marketing And this final episode of three, the third leg of the stool is about content strategy. And the results that we have got from it. All of us on traveled with all the three musketeers here, Four Musketeers. We all do content creation to different levels. Some of us do more than others, who's gonna lead off on this thing, we're gonna lead off with Mr. Hart, who is renowned in the profession for the amount of stuff that he knocks out. Mr. Hart?
Andy Hart:It's very kind of unique. Yes, this is about I suppose digital content we're talking about. So I thought I'd just lay out what's involved here. The obvious ones, things like blogs, articles, essays, newspapers, videos, visuals, podcast as well. So this is an example of content marketing. Obviously, we're sort of finding our feet with it. We're just over a year into it now. And lots of things have come as a result of doing it. It's often not clear at the beginning what they will be. I ran another podcast Maven money, I did 300 episodes of pretty much discussed everything you could possibly do with money on that stuff. Yeah, I'm quite prolific on LinkedIn on X on Twitter, as you're gonna play, there's Rob is enough, either up. Yeah, so that's, that's a starter. So it is very, very important. You still need to the old school stuff, referrals, networking, you know, showing up and doing doing good work. But then obviously, these days, everyone is scrolling constantly on their phones, on their iPads on their computers. And yeah, I, I run humans on the management, which is obviously a physical brand in terms of conferences, but it does it has a sort of digital offering via humans on the management premium. So I'm very prolific posting stuff on LinkedIn. Yeah, it's very important. And I've said before any content, endeavor, whatever that may be for you, you should think 30 months before you get any traction, too many people start things and stop things because they don't get enough sort of results from it. You know, I've been doing this YouTube channel for nine months, and nothing happened. It's like, Well, now you've got to commit, ideally, to 30 months to begin with, which is two and a half years, we've got lucky with trap, because quite a few of us have got, you know, an audience already. So we've got traction a bit sooner than that, say 30 months. But still, we need to give this a good crack for 30 months and sort of, you know, practice what we preach. So yeah, that's the opening of it. Who's next?
Carl Widger:When I when I go next, because I'm, I think I need to defer here to Mr. Hart. And Mr. Smith, who's content creation is absolutely smashing it out of the park. So my I've done I've been, I've done a good bit on on X, I've done a good bit on LinkedIn, but it's very sporadic. So I'm definitely not playing to the rule that the two and a half year rule, I find, when I get really busy, I just leave it off, which is probably the time that I need to up my game. So that's 2024 is going to be about trying to get bring some consistency to that. We have done a couple of them holding one of the guides that we've done here. And you know, we've asked people to download them off the website, or we have hard copies as well, that's actually been really successful for us. You know, stuff like 10 tips to take care of your future while you're taking care of your business. So aimed up business owners, that kind of stuff. I think we've four different guides at the moment. They take a lot of effort, so you can't put out BS you know, you got you gotta be careful in you know, that it's engaging, that the the, you know, the title of the guide is something that kind of grabs Oh, yeah, that's, that's where I'm at. So that's what I'm going to download. Yeah, but I think 2024 We're going to definitely be upping our game in terms of our content and driving stuff out via say LinkedIn and Twitter but I'm always amazed at the at the commitment and the consistency that both Andy and Ireland have in terms of their social media strategy. So this was a this is a piece I think I'm going to just shut up and I'm gonna learn now as to you know, exactly how you how you get the success that you've got, because I know that this delivers results for both of you.
Alan Smith:Yes, it's a skewed subjects relevant subject and it's a huge subject. So I'll just share my own. I think we have talked about this a little bit in the past. I'll bring you up to date with my experiences and and importantly perhaps results that you and I went on a writing course. Coming up two years ago, we started January 2020 to ship 30 for 30. That was the trigger for me because it compelled To me, and you did it as well, Nick to create something every day for 30 days. And it's only that, you know, as they say, That's habit forming. If you do anything, whether it's you know, exercise or whatever, meditate 30 days consistently seems to kind of rewire your brain a little bit. And that's what worked for me. Somewhat prior to that I was very sporadic around writing stuff on on social media and kind of pathetic, really, you know, the little messages and the traditional photograph of what you had for lunch or something completely irrelevant. But the whole ship 30 thing was quite a catalyst for me, because I began to understand because digital content creation is so different to so many other ways of writing or creating the way we, we consume information differently digitally, basically scroll, no one's really reading things like they read a book. So and there's all sorts of tips and tricks, which I won't go into here. If anyone's interested, there's a ton of stuff available on the ship 30 website and their YouTube channel, little things about how to hook the first line that you you write is really important use use of bullet points, use of formatting and spacing, all that sort of stuff. And I forget half of it, and I'm not really as consistent as I should be. But however, that was the starting point of creating content now. What's the purpose of it, and for me, it's multiple. Undoubtedly, part of this is to kind of be, you know, it's a bit of a bullshit term, but you know, what I mean, thought leadership, all it is, is sharing thoughts, ideas and inspirations that I've had, you know, we all I consume a lot, I read a lot of stuff, and I share my take on it. The other thing it forces you to do by creating content publicly is you need to understand your subject reasonably well, because you're gonna post something. So I whether, you know, sometimes I'll do a summary of podcasts I've listened to or something and I want to be able to ensure if I take my notes, I want to make sure that I know it calm confident about the information. This year, there's so much the social media people post stuff, which is you know, it's nonsense. There's not thoughtful, it's not been thought through. So allows you to do that. So wide subject I agree with Andy as a result of that. Sometime after about six months after doing that writing course, I launched my own podcast, the award winning bulletproof entrepreneur started by laughing as true as we won. The five star the five star bulletproof. Yeah, 4.9 Star 4.9. Sorry, almost almost five star, just that one, one star, which threw me off track. Now, so those are the only platforms that I'm active on. Like Andy, I think his LinkedIn, Twitter, slash x and this podcast, and is an ecosystem One is not better than the other. But it was Andy who told me if you're gonna start anything, you got to commit to it. With a podcast, I think you said commit to 100 episodes minimum 100 Nicholas, not 99 Oh, that's where I went wrong. So you went wrong. So commit to 100? I think I'm about 40 Something at the moment. So I'll keep I'll keep going with and it is part of an ecosystem. Sometimes you work out well, how did how did somebody find us was a LinkedIn post where and one thing leads to another, somebody sees something, they check out something else and then they go and follow other information you've shared now. As I say, there is a specific strategy and as a specific art and I've had to learn to be more effective to your points call. We're all busy, we can't be sitting you know, on social media all day. So use of scheduling tools I have used HootSuite, for example. And I was sort of I've tried to schedule things men often on a Sunday I'll write three or four or five things and we'll have them sort of drop into the various platforms on a scheduled time throughout the week. So it appears that I'm sort of productive and on it and I'm not quite as much so it takes a bit of thought takes a bit of practice takes a bit of organization now that's all well and good but what are the results one I've kind of feel like raise raise my profile probably more people know about I've lots of opportunities have come my way some are good some are less good you know you've got you end up having to say no to quite a few things because there's a lot of people who want to you know, pick your brain as they say or any other number of other ways of of just getting involved because of some of the stuff I posted but in in in reality if this if definitely one of the most important reasons is business generation, new client opportunities, new partnerships, everything else looking at the numbers we've had a good year this year we will have had our most successful year ever will have the most sort of revenue most profitability content in its in its Thank you.
Nick Lincoln:Thank you so much. Well done, Alan. Yeah.
Andy Hart:Yeah. Congratulations.
Alan Smith:I'd like to thank you guys. I wouldn't have done it without you. It's It's It's cannot last. The point being we have content creation is our second most important source of new business referrals actually remain rare client referrals remain our single most important. However, I can see that changing next year, I can think this sort of content creation will become our single biggest source of new business generation new clients, and new opportunities. And I'll sort of stop there.
Andy Hart:Okay, I've got a couple of other things to throw in the mix. Scheduling or scheduling scheduling is key traps an example. It's in the diary 2024. We've got 26 episodes to do we're committed is the similar with the other stuff. I do humans on a management Advisor newsletter, it's monthly. So I'm committed that needs to be done. You need to force yourself to do it. So schedule having a schedule schedule is key. There's a good book on this a guy called Steven Pressfield he the greatest book ever is called The War of Art. I recommend you read it. It's really thin. Have it as a bit of a Christmas read. He's also got another book called Turning Pro. I love his writing
Alan Smith:him and you mentioned him every episode, don't you? It's not that it's a random we can we can remote. Brilliant. Helped. Helps outs when you repeat you.
Andy Hart:You are the king you are the king story. Regurgitator. Anyway,
Alan Smith:I appreciate your positive feedback.
Unknown:Talk about wins. I mean, maybe one minutes it is still a record though. Amazing. goodwill to
Nick Lincoln:all men. It's sickening, isn't it? Anyway, gone. Alright, coming. So
Andy Hart:I'm gonna carry on moving money breached a million downloads, which is a pretty yeah, pretty big, big target on the on the podcast space. Yeah, back to Alan's point, the more content you put out there, the more opportunities come we don't know exactly what they're going to be. But just just stuff happens, you know, sort of increase in your luck, surface area, whatever you want to call it. And also, you should be somewhat embarrassed of your early content, it means if you're not embarrassed of your early content, it means you launch too late. You know, I put some terrible stuff out there over the years. I mean, it's not it's not offensive or anything. It's just sort of, you know, bad mics, bad lighting, you know, badly worded essays or whatever. And obviously, you just get better and better at it. Here's a quote that's going to sort of great with Nick, you know, I've sort of I've grown up and you probably get ready with a drop over. I've grown up in public in this business. And I'll continue to do that. Anyway. Any other final points?
Alan Smith:Is that is that the quote? Oh, it's just as you say. And it's the same as this podcast. Trap. It's so it's so polished and professional NAMM was so respectful to each other. Some of those early episodes when, when the when the smoke alarms going off in the background or the Yeah, exactly. We should cause heavy breathing through the whole thing.
Andy Hart:I'm coughing entire time. Yeah, it's a bit rough around now.
Alan Smith:It's now it's wonderful. It's so professional. When you finally
Andy Hart:learn how to connect your mic to your computer for the first eight episodes. You had the mic in front of you, but you were using the computer mic anyway. It's totally fine to make some small mistakes like that, Alan, that's how we learn. Exactly
Alan Smith:right. I appreciate that. And there is a good I think I shared it with you guys is there's a good podcast out let me just see if I've got it Steve Sandusky. Some of you guys know Steve Sandusky, yeah, produces podcast comm or exactly what it's called, but worth looking at. We probably can post a link to this in the show notes. But just the last one is just a couple of weeks ago, he interviews this young financial planner in America, obviously. And this guy just started his own YouTube channel. And he was and he's got again, he basically unpacks exactly how he does it. He goes, he records, I think five, under 1510 to 15 minutes, YouTube films, whatever you call it, YouTube clips, shorts, whatever. And he records them kind of all at once he Batch Records and he did pretty basic stuff. He does them in his home and his bedroom. And somebody films if and he tells you exactly how he does it and speaks to camera, etc. And I can't remember what the numbers are. But he is getting just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of new business is your business inquiries. I think you said he's added about 150 million of assets or 100 20 million of assets dollars in the last 12 months alone just as almost everything from this YouTube channel. And again, he explained that first few are absolutely terrible. He's got a system that is going to program and he's absolutely flying. And the other thing I suppose it's relevant to this when you create content, anyone in theory from anywhere in the world can read it or consume it as it pertains to our work in this kind of modern digital kind of remote zoom type world that we live in. It's perfectly reasonable to take on a client that lives outside of the country, they will actually never meet in person, whereas the old version which you can avoid We're looking at your local literature, your geographical area, hence the needs for people used to take your adverts in their local paper and stuff. It's all kind of gone now. So if somebody in Edinburgh just reads your blog and loves it, then you can engage with them, which is a useful benefit as well. And what
Andy Hart:I mean yeah, a good example of that is obviously Pete Matthews who's in Penzance, which is in the, you know, the center of nowhere, you know, still three hours once you get to Cornwall to Penzance, but obviously, he's been able to take on clients everywhere. A bit of a humble brag humans on a management premium, we've got members from 13 countries around the world. I mean, that's ridiculous. You know, me sitting in my little chicken shed and hacen and then getting subscribers from like Norway and Singapore. I mean, it's all from basically LinkedIn to LinkedIn is a huge huge, huge base for me now, that might not be the same for advisors looking for clients, let's say but it's all still part of that sort of digital presence. Yeah, it's let's
Alan Smith:not let's not let's not let's not forget Andy that this very podcast, the real advisor podcast, yeah, goes down now was was the number one podcast the number of years in Mauritius, Mauritius
Andy Hart:and we're still waiting to close personal friends Harry Smith listening Oh, yeah,
Alan Smith:it must it must have been and we are still waiting for the invite to go out there and do a live and in person event in Mauritius to all our listeners out there. Okay, what else it Nick You haven't you been quiet but you're you're fairly prolific although
Nick Lincoln:I do yeah. My slightly different slant just to say by the way I'm very this is not part of the kumbaya I love it and the Christmas episode and the Google tormenting I am I am very much respect the content that you three put out Carl, your your guides are great. And obviously a lot of work does go into them. And Andy, you're renowned for what you do. And Alan, I mean, to take one example of what you do and the threads on I wouldn't call it x the threads you don't Twitter are always very well composed. And it's, it's a credit to your children, they can compose them. So well on your behalf. Thank you. I do content downtime. I'm a bit more flippant, and I'm you know, I'm very direct and I bit perhaps more servic than then some elements. So the call can be added to my newsletter once a quarter and I'm not even sure I mean, I've got about 400 people who subscribed Now how many of them actually read the I could check on MailChimp, I don't want to check I don't really care. And I put this out once a quarter and for me it's it's the art of actually writing stuff helps me just get my thoughts organized. That's that's the that's, I really do the newsletter for myself, just to get my head around concepts and just just do some research, find the figures backup my you know, fine, fine, like most things you go into, and you've got an argument already in your head and then you find stuff that backs up the argument and you can find the facts that the argument you know, equity is a brilliant, inflation is wrong. Mainstream media is an absolute millstone around your neck if you follow any of it, and most of the people in it are clueless. And it just helps me organize my thought process. But it also means I have got a whole library of articles now that I can just reference to Clark, you know, I keep a spreadsheet of everything I've written and I tag it so I know that articles on that then I can send it to clients or prospects and because my newsletters on Squarespace you can actually put a hyperlink in so although it's a big long scrolling page, you can go straight to Article Three and send that to client it's just putting up a resume of information that's that's hot in my case, I don't know I take it to extremes. And so in quotes joke's on my political comments, but it is very highly personalized because you know, as you guys do, I believe what clients see is what they must get right you can't put it on or you can't put on a sort of a cara pace. You can't maintain a two personalities that you've got to be yourself all the time and and that some people that's going to repel and some people that's going to attract and so I make my content when I do it very much about me. I've got a few 100 People read my newsletter, I probably got a few 100,000 people because of my newsletter, and that was few million Nick a few million, a few million in the end it but I do it mainly for personal, personal self improvement. That's, that's that's why I do that the content and just talking I just want to kind of segue off a bit bit but in marketing, you know, my marketing thing is about referrals. And that's that's where I get all my clients from and I after we finished doing today's recording of trap, I've got whatever you want to call it a discovery meeting with with with prospects. And long story short in 2008 Nine I took on a couple I won't give away their names. That's D and I couple coming into retirement since then D has referred his son to me and his wife is also referred his daughter to me and her husband, now the son and wife that he referred to me, they referred me on to another couple so it's like a referral of a referral called P and S and P and S I've just referred a another couple to me who I'm meeting with today online for this discovery meeting and it just cascades down and all of these people mix in the same milieu they're their children go to the same schools that's how they met. But the thing is people mixed with like me said with like and this is the power if you do a good I did a good job at A D and I, back in 2008. Nine he's given me his children, his children, they in turn have given me their close friends and it goes on it goes. And it's just this ripple of if you do a good job, but they all you know, they're all the people, all the earners in those relationships are all on six figures. Some of them start with three and four once you factor in bonuses, and so forth. So they're really good. They're bright, smart, they want to save their future selves. And they're all coming to me saying, Nick Lincoln is done this for us. We like him. And because we're friends with you, we'll think you'll like him as well, because we you we all have the same set of personality traits.
Andy Hart:I wonder how they introduce you, Nick, do they say anything like there's a little bit of a character you've got to sort of take in with Google, I noticed, you might appear a bit wacky, but
Nick Lincoln:that's okay. When we come on to them, which you might do in a minute, because every 15 minutes when we come on to the TRAPPIST questions, one of the questions that the question is asked of us is how do we what questions do we ask clients? In meetings? One of the questions I always try to get the conversation going, I say, okay, you've been referred to me by by DNI, in your words, what did they tell you about what I've done for them, and then just shut up. And then they're gonna say, Oh, you did the graph, you did the chart, style thing. Open, open, get them to talk to you in their words, and then you can use their words back to them. That's a very good way of, of pretending you're empathetic. Okay? Just
Alan Smith:so just to bring this just to wrap up, put a bow on this, as we say,
Nick Lincoln:unmuted, sorry, you're missing your lovely bloody laugh, maybe I think we could do a
Carl Widger:little joke, pretending I was
Andy Hart:where we live doing.
Alan Smith:I thought, that wasn't a joke. He's been doing that
Andy Hart:65. Just
Alan Smith:to bring that back to the subject matter, which was we're still this is the third of three on business growth and marketing and focusing on leveraging the power of content creation, and whatever format you use. Interesting, the I would not be surprised if your newsletter, for example, as a consistent example of your thought leadership, content creation, wouldn't be you know, it might be shared around so that Dee and I might ping it across the link to once they receive it to their friends, families, colleagues. Some of them may say, Oh, this is horrible, I don't like and some will say, Oh, I like the way he writes, I like his thought process. You know that. In other words, it's another calling card that exists out there in the world, that people can sort of delve into, without the need necessarily to make a phone call that reaching out making an initial phone call or email and first meeting first contact is quite a big step for people. So once you get used to what this sort of cut of the person's job is. So consecration, whatever format you do particularly just represents you as an individual, you kind of outlook outlook on life, and therefore it's either going to be engaging or not. And the last thing I want to say on this and want to leave the audience with some practical tools, the art of content creation, particularly for using social media platforms, beginning to understand how the algorithms work, and how you can leverage them to your advantage, as opposed to being a victim of them. I've mentioned already, if someone's serious about this, invest the time, invested money and learn, check out the ship 30 for 30 course and the other one, which is specifically around LinkedIn, which I've done is a guy called Justin Welsh, w e LSH. He's got a program economist about $300 or something. And it's just the art and science of being successful in LinkedIn. And this guy is due he's a solo operator working from these chicken shed in Idaho or something. And he's doing a million dollars a year and more because he's really understood the power and the impact is literally shedloads
Andy Hart:Island. He's doing like 5 million as a solo Yeah.
Alan Smith:He's doing a lot. He's my heroes about it. Yeah, spend the time spend the money engage in it, and good luck to you all, let us know how you get on. Okay. Fantastic.
Nick Lincoln:Fantastic. I think we've given that given that loads of value there over the last three episodes on the whole subject of marketing and when I'm sure we'll revisit this because these things change. This is a very fluid fluid subject isn't it? Just just the tech changes things we can do now? We couldn't do 10 years ago 15 years ago in a loom everything that we can do we can reach out to people in different ways. And it's amazing that it'd be all different again in five years time it really well. Okay, without any further ado then I suggest that we move on to the next section of the show because at the doorbell are the is my post lady who is not ringing the doorbell must not be working. That's all I can think. If this is not making the noise, which is inconvenient. Nevermind, which might kick in in a minute hide over me rambling. Now, the doorbell button. That's very good. That's very good. I might refresh if I refresh. Yeah, right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Jesus wept,
Alan Smith:are you are you drops not working today. So Are many opportunities brilliant they froze when outra was talking about how prolific he was amazing he is. I
Andy Hart:thought I was I was I was waiting for a limit content grades just like you're a worker. You're an app you're Yeah, you're a total worker work
Alan Smith:Correct. Absolute shambles, absolute shambles. That works.
Nick Lincoln:But postman the doors not working. Okay, nevermind. So the postie is here and first question is from Who is it from? Let's see if we can find out who it is from it is from Plymouth. Okay, Paul Klee with or clue. Paul is a friend of the show. Good. Good chap, one of the UK is most switched on advisors. And I think we're seeing him next week, aren't we at our lunch club? Ron? Paul is our Paul's on Twitter at Paul Coworth or Plymouth and also on LinkedIn. And I'll put his details in the show notes. Okay, he asked us what are the best questions you can ask a new prospective client to get them to open up and elaborate about themselves, their circumstances and their finances? What techniques do you use to develop the conversation to wow them, and to sell them on your services? I know what I asked my clients, but I'm interested in all four horsemen's thoughts because great questions lead to great answers. That is true. Newer advisors can have all the qualifications and competence in the world, but they must learn the art of asking great questions, the art of selling and how to build value. Mr. Smith does want to lead off on this. I can see you twitching this long.
Andy Hart:Sorry. We saw Paul yesterday, Nick York and Alberni.
Nick Lincoln:We're seeing him later on this week when Minister abuses recorded the listeners.
Andy Hart:Yeah, this was yesterday. It was a great day. No
Alan Smith:one cares, Andy. Okay. So listen, let me let me shambles. Let me get off on this. Let me break down. So I go. Let me tell you a little story about this. And how some of the mistakes
Unknown:grab yourself a drink? A very long drink. It's story time with Ellen Smith.
Alan Smith:Water everywhere. Thank you. Yes, this is a huge subject. I think we've spoken about this before somewhat. And again, as you say, I said earlier on, Nick, there's some of the subjects are perennial, they'll keep coming up the Evergreen, and the evolve and the change. So when I went on this famous course CEG, worldwide, I think these kind of Americans came over to London and told us all how to be successful because they were coaches to the elite financial planners of the United States. But it was there was some absolute gems within which we still use. So this is where the original kind of discovery meeting questions came from. Because up until that point, we were asking what are called fact find questions. Tell me about your assets, your liabilities, your income, your expenditure? And they said to us, no, you got to ask ask people go deeper, ask them about their life, their background, their history, their all those sort of softer questions, and I quite a quite liked it. And we had a list of 64 questions. And they just said, just ask them just ask. I mean, some of them were just a little bit left field, for example, asking you about pets. Tell us about your pets, what are your pets names? What you know, how the what's the relationship? The family? One of the questions was, do you know Eddie, do you know anybody famous? That was a question. And it was, but there was a lot of science behind it. They could identify, they were putting people into different categories. And then it would therefore, kind of it would inform your future communication style with that client. But that will get a little bit complicated. So but we did focus on out of the 64. There were certainly was a dozen or so which were really good questions. And we started just to use them because they said, you know, this, this is a company out of California and California has, I think approached things somewhat differently to the kind of stiff upper lip, Brit. And some of the questions they said, Just do it, don't ask questions. Just do it. Your clients love it. And we still we did. And to be fair, a lot of clients did love it. But one thing he wants to her I always remember we were introduced to a new prospective clients. And this guy was scared like some of our clients are kind of, I kind of put it so a real go getter, entrepreneur, very successful guy, started his own business, was making a load of money and had issues around his kind of pension challenges. And we set up this we set up this meeting with colleague and I to do our discovery meeting. And I just remember the conditions were it was passing down with rain outside, it was dark, it was about November time, it was really dark outside. The weather was horrible. And the meeting was a 9am on a Monday morning because that's never a you know, beautiful time of day or experience to have this sort of conversation. But we go ahead with it. Anyway, and and I opened the questioning, I said, you know, nice to meet you. Thanks for coming in. Let me start by asking you the first question. And the first question was an offered I've talked spoken about another example. This is a different one. I just remembered that this this experience, and I still have shutters thinking about it, because I just opened up with this, this question which we've all got versions of it, but we were told this is what people want to talk about. Question number one, what does money mean to you? What does money mean to you? And then that leads find the guys going, what the hell? What the hell? Where were we going with this? And then the second question was, tell me, what was money like in your family when you were growing up? And, and it just felt just really, really awkward? And he was sort of say, oh, yeah, and he did his best to answer it. But the moral of the story is, there's two, there's two parts of the story. One, you can ask yourself the questions, but the order in which you ask them is really, really important. You've also got to set up the you got to frame it. Before you start launching into it, you got to say, look, we're going to ask you a number of questions, we're absolutely going to get to the key issues and challenges that you've got, this guy just had a pension related issue that he felt we'd come in and solve. And we make it clear that we're going to be saying, we're going to ask you a number of questions, one or two of which might seem a little bit odd. But it's also really important, as part of our kind of, you know, understanding you what makes you tick and and an order that we can deliver high quality advice. So a reasonable question to open with, is just simply tell me your story. Tell me tell me your background, tell me a story. What brings you to be here today, the important thing about that is it gets the client or the prospective client talking, because everyone can talk about that till the cows come home. And the other thing I can't remember, I mentioned this before, but something is very specifically that we learned from these people and we continue to do to this day is where you've got a couple, husband and wife. The initial question is ask it, you should be asking them, and you just you simply state without any sort of preconceived thoughts. In most families, one of the couple tends to take the lead on the family finances, family bank accounts, paying bills, etc. May I ask which of the two of you? Is it? In my experience without being sexist? Historically, the majority, not always, but the majority has been the male, the husband, and therefore you very specifically say, Well, that's good to know, if I may, can I start with you, Mrs. Ex Wife, because you want to get everyone involved in the conversation early on, historically, we've had conversations and the husband starts talking doesn't just doesn't stop talking for 20 minutes. And then the the other half feels less engaged in the conversation. So those are a couple of things. But you must start with these softer questions. Tell me about your story. And then you can go into the other ones. So the order in which you do it, frame it, set it up. But also, just be careful about the time of day, the time of year, the weather, everything else, because sometimes people are just not ready for a really fluffy type conversation. Andrew,
Andy Hart:thank you for sharing that story. Allen, I haven't heard it 16 times. I'm gonna keep this quite short. By the way. That's that's a
Alan Smith:that's a different story.
Andy Hart:I don't know. Thanks. So I keep it quite simple. I go into these sort of meetings with clients thinking, just having the conversation with friends. I keep it quite simple. I open up with how can I help? And then we just see where it goes. I asked that
Nick Lincoln:written down. Yeah. Yeah. How can I help? That's one of the ones I was gonna do. Yeah. Sorry.
Andy Hart:Thank Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for rudely interrupting, thank you for bringing my question up. No, no, thank you for being here today. And then thought, back to Alan's point, I say, Who's the CMO? So who's the CMO here? Who's the chief money officer in the house? And then they they look at each other? And they sort of decide? Yeah, you're right. It's an interesting one to open up with. Yeah, I just try and keep it simple. I don't be too contrived. I don't have like a list of questions. I have tried different things over the years. I think now I just go into it wanting to have a conversation, see where it leads, rather than having sort of a set script that I mean, Paul knows this better than anyone. He's a superb adviser. But yeah, thanks for the question over to you, Carl.
Carl Widger:Yeah, kinda like what Ireland says, right? I think asking someone what's your story or, like, just straight off the bat is, you got to position it. So that's where I suppose talking to. I hate the word prospects, but people who are not yet clients of ours, right. We'll talk It's hard, isn't it to describe exactly what the financial planning process is? So it's like, okay, this is the type of thing we do and you might give some examples or whatever, but nobody gets in to do have a proper chat with us if they don't first of all complete to getting to know your questionnaire as we call it, right. And so that's the traditional fact find bit in the middle, but the precursor is I have it in front of me. Exactly like Alan you must have stolen this from me. So the firt The first question is that what what is your story? Your earliest your earliest memory when it comes to money. What love this one, right? This is really important because this will position where you need to go with the clients. What's your experience of financial advisors to date? Imagine yourself three years from now what makes this relationship a success?
Alan Smith:These are all completely stolen from me currently the source of our Yeah, we
Carl Widger:share information. And that's it.
Nick Lincoln:The sun gentleman don't get to help yourself.
Andy Hart:That's the downside of in question. The question I believe, yeah.
Carl Widger:What what do you like to do in your spare time? So you're trying to get it behind? You know, what, what do they do? I don't like the Kinder questions. I think they're too way too bloody morbid, right. So once we've asked those at the outset, then it's the, it's like, tell us all about your money. And then at the end, it's like, what are your top three? Financial planning requirements are your money requirements? And then the last one is if money was no issue, tell us what you do. Right. So that's a so we position it at a at the beginning, and then at the end. And that tells them before they come into us, this is not going to be like any other discussion you've had before. This is going to be different. But we that they're the only questions that we have that's in our getting to know you. And that positions, how the discussion is going to evolve. That's what we do. We've tweaked him over the years. That's where we're at right now.
Alan Smith:We're back to the world of it's an art and a science. There's that there's, there's several different things going on here. I think, at the end of the day, we're just trying to open a relationship, aren't we, as they say, we're not trying to close a sale, we're trying to open a relationship. But that's true. We're trying to be we're trying to build rapport, we're trying to create rapport. And one of the best ways is scientifically proven of creating rapport is by asking people questions and listening intently to their response. So you just want to do things where a being human there's, I mean, because we've all got this again, we've mentioned it before the curse of knowledge, we do it in our sleep we've been doing for years, we meet clients, people come in a lot of researchers, there's people coming to me to financial advisor, often for the first time often been to see another one who's a bit more of an old school, you know, money manager type thing. It's just a bit uncomfortable. It's a bit awkward, and what if they find me out? What if they realize I haven't been managing my personal finances very well, I might be shamed or embarrassed. So we just did the The Art of Asking questions apart from to elicit some ideas and information from it's just to build an open, open relationship and create rapport through asking questions that they will find very easy to answer. So they're not technical questions. And the other thing I just want to throw in in conclusion for this is, I was I was speaking to another I think, another friend of the podcast, certainly a well known adviser to all of his Steve mark, Steve Martin. And Steve who runs a I don't know if he's still doing it, he certainly was running a training program for advisors, young advisors, and and it just gave me some feedback. This is not to be disrespectful in any way to any of the advisors that have been in the program. But he was saying that a lot of younger advisors who were doing going through his program had they had these they almost had the questions like you said on a questionnaire call. And they would go Mister Mister prospect. So tell me what was money like for you and your family growing up? As if it was, you know, tell me your address your National Insurance number? I first would give the person would give them the answer. Oh, is it was really difficult or you'd be didn't have a pot to piss in blah, blah. And they got Thank you very much tick, right. Next. Tell me what does money mean to you? Do you know?
Nick Lincoln:What problems Yeah, terminal cancer? Okay, yeah.
Alan Smith:Yeah, no, okay. No, yeah, yeah, I've got I've got a pet giraffe. I've got a giraffe and a monkey. Okay. Next, just the point is, and he's stating the bleeding obvious. And I said, Surely people don't do that, Steve. And he says, yeah, they are wet. These are well intentioned people. But they've got they've been handed a set of tools which ask clients meaningful questions. And this is where the art comes into. Because it's actually quite difficult. You might, you know, we used to go into this with arms with a load of questions, but they'll tell you something, and all of a sudden, the next five questions are irrelevant, right. And so you've got to be really on your game, you gotta be able to shape the conversation and be listening intently. I don't know about you. And I've done those meetings in the two hours long and bloody exhausted by the end of them. Because I'm really, I'm sort of my brain is trying to manage a number of different things going on at the same time. So you don't just ask the questions, listen very carefully, and then shape the next direction of the conversation.
Nick Lincoln:Thank you, Andy.
Andy Hart:Before I have a discovery meeting with any client, they fill in my online discovery form. I know it's obviously not as good as live questioning, of course not. But I'll just give you what the questions are. So the opening question is, how did you hear about us did someone recommend us? That again, is quite open. The next question is, how can we help? The next question is what is your main financial concern at the moment? The next question, which is super important is have you worked with a financial advisor before? If so, how did that go? And that is a very, very insightful question for us. So financial advisor
Nick Lincoln:pointed to himself as if that's a question. I've asked that question for years. And then
Andy Hart:And then the final final couple of questions are
Carl Widger:did I just go through all these questions Lorman it's gonna be carried out anyway, we're
Andy Hart:letting each other unrelated to other speakers.
Alan Smith:We didn't we need come by our from you by
Andy Hart:My next question is what are you looking forward to financial advisor My next question is do you this is this is an important one for financial planners. My next question is do you currently have a written lb specific financial life plan that's teeing them up for this is what we do. And then my final question is what are your hobbies interests or passions?
Carl Widger:That's it so all all the same as what I wrote. Read,
Andy Hart:you are the chief. You are the chief Cloner car you are very good at cloning my
Carl Widger:friend. Also known as any take good bits of dealing filter out
Andy Hart:all that to you German.
Nick Lincoln:Okay, Paul Kurth, hope you've got some value out of that. And amongst that, Rubble, yes, so if you think we'll just have the one TRAPPIST question this episode gentlemen, that's okay, because we're in one hour 10 minutes in. If you want to submit a question to us please do there's the link in the pinned tweet at the top of our Twitter profile also on our brand new spanking shining new website, the real advisor podcast.com You can submit questions there also on there you can register your interest for what many people are calling the live event 2024 Trap live May the ninth venue to be determined if they ever bloody well get back to one of us. But please do look at that and let us know if you're interested. I think we should move on. Oh by the way, and we're only August with these questions. So we are going through the hopper slowly next up is guys Skinner you've got quite a detailed question guy which we'll address in the next episode, but we're we will plow through Okay, let's try and seamlessly go on to culture corner. I've got no idea if this dropper works I'll press the thing now there's an awkward silence
Unknown:absolute shambles,
Nick Lincoln:absolute shambles, right? Isn't it Riverside? Come on, get your thing. Okay. And the first one is Mr. Smith and G E M which bills Game
Alan Smith:Jam. So as you wish I could sue culture corners the both the almost diametrically opposite, but both are absolutely worth consuming watching gem G M, which is on Amazon Prime. It's just over one hour, it's a stand up. It's a guy. So Ozzie guy called Hugh Vander coulomb Berg, who had never heard of before, I don't know what you know, encouraged me to watch this or, or see the video, but I did last week. And it's fabulous. And actually it's just highly relevant this time of year, we've all got a bit more, maybe a little bit more time on our hands maybe a little bit more reflective and looking back at the previous year and thinking thinking ahead. Yeah, it's all I would say is it allows you the G it stands for gratitude, empathy and mindfulness. And it sounds a little I can see Nick's eyes rolling and just shaking his head as it is for everyone except for Nick Lincoln, who's already the epitome of empathy and mindfulness and gratitude. It's just really nice. And it just tells a lot of stories. He talks about this talks about sport, and his examples and real life things that this guy has experienced worth an hour of your time of anyone's time. The other as I say almost a sort of direct opposite is something I just watched at the weekend going past is the new things Jeff Bezos interview with Lex Friedman on the LEX Friedman podcast, which I watched on YouTube. It's about two hours long. Jeff Bezos almost never does podcasts, interviews, conversations. This is for anyone in business or anyone attempting ever to be in business. This is a master class Amazon are just such they are what do you call it? Andrew? Would you steal it from somewhere else they've commoditize miracles, the fact you can click something on your phone, and the next day or within hours something is delivered, and everything that they do from their Kindle to the Amazon Web Services is just an extraordinary operation. And Jeff, along with Elon Musk is undoubtedly one of the sort of your one or two best entrepreneurs of the last 100 years or so. And he just he unpacks is basically his secrets to success to Jeff Bezos on the LEX Friedman podcast well worth your time really
Andy Hart:really much it's really really good yes about two and a half hours long he goes into a lot of detail about a lot of stuff it's uh yeah I highly recommend it a really good recommendation and
Nick Lincoln:okay, I get that I find Lex Friedman hard work but given you guys a boost it up I'm gonna give you I'm gonna try the culture I refreshed let's just see if this works. Oh there is balanced restore to the force. Okay. Corner it is made trillions trillions a book by Robin Wigglesworth I was gonna call him wrigglesworth. It's a Wigglesworth and this is on the, on the, the rise of the indexing movement, which has, as we know, is just it's just now massive and dominates. And I read a book this year, but by Charlie Ellis, the story of the Vanguard, and I found that quite a dull read trillions by comparison, I'm loving you. I haven't finished it yet, but I am actually reading it. Okay. So I can I can get that into such a corner. And it's, it's got a lot it goes back way back then. So at the 19th century, how these early these early academics were looking at the Paris stock market and thinking you know, there's something funny, there's something going on here, you know, this, this random walks in it, the prices do appear. And so it's a lot of historical context, but it brings in everybody in the field. So you got Rex Cinquefoil, you got your French and pharma, you've obviously got Bogle and it's a really, really interesting read and written and everything I start and so I recommend that as a link to the I'm doing on Kindle, by the way, and it's a good consumption because it's consumed via Kindle. And there's a link to it in the show notes. Also in the show notes. I know that on your award winning podcast, Alan, thank you. Robin as a guest on Sirius two episode three, so I've even put a link in to that episode. And so you
Alan Smith:are so kind is that is that your Christmas gift to me? Christmas gift. I really appreciate it. Robin is a close personal friend of mine. Come on, come on. Come on, come up.
Unknown:Yes, he's a lovely guy.
Alan Smith:I've met him several times. Interesting fact. Robin Wigglesworth. What nationality is he Canadian sounds. So it could not be orangish Norwegian in Norway, right. Another potential client of Metis. Norway. What's this about Norway. Anyway,
Carl Widger:that is our chairman.
Alan Smith:Robin because we're just another sort of just to back that up. Robin is the editor of the Alphaville section of the Financial Times. And that is the only section of financial times which is free to anyone. You don't have to subscribe. It's not paywall controlled. And it's very kind of irreverent, shall we say the right a lot of just fun, interesting stories about the world of finance. So do check out Alphaville at ft edited by Robin Wigglesworth. But good shout, Nick. Thank you.
Nick Lincoln:Okay, great. So I'll just close. My podcast app that I use is Pocket Cast, and I pay the annual subscription, it was 10 quid a year, I got a notification coming through from them. I know we're living in high inflation time for that 10 quid a year is going up to 40 quid a year give or take. And it's funny about it's a good example of frame easily because in the scheme of things, 40 pounds is not really here or there. But the fact is a four fold increase has really gotten under my skin. So
Andy Hart:you get a Pocket Cast pro Nick, I don't know if I've got it or not, I use Pocket Casts. But I don't know if I've got the programs. And I'll just get the abilities that you can download and store files on your I must have the Pro version, I must have the Pro version. Yeah, it's coming up, it's going to increase.
Nick Lincoln:The free version is happy with I've gone back to so super quick for me, I would happily pay 10 to 12 quid 15 quid forever, you know, in line broadly with inflation, but to go from 10 to 40. I've cancelled this and then they've not getting the 40 they're not getting the 10 anymore, either. So clear score app, Mr. Ha. Oh, yes.
Andy Hart:So I don't think I've spoken about this before. It's a it's an app that tracks your credit score, it's free. So I recommend you as an advisor, download it and use it and then any clients that you have that don't quite know what their credit score is, or whatever it's brilliant is super app, it's got loads of detail behind it shows you all of your accounts, which shows you the total value of your mortgages, total value of your credit cards is brilliant. So if you want a credit score app that sort of free unless they change your price in the future, then I recommend you download it and obviously mentioned it to your clients also. Final point is I mentioned it earlier in question, Nick. There isn't a point I somehow got the perfect score didn't I had 1000 out of 1000 Yeah, a mate of mine sent me a screen slightly gone down. A mate of mine sent me a screenshot the other day that he also had 1000 I think my brother's got 1000 as well. Mine's a little bit lower because of my recent personal circumstances, moving houses, various things going on.
Nick Lincoln:But I'm still seeing successful divorce so yeah,
Andy Hart:I'm still I'm still about 800 out of 1000 Nick's I'm not, I'm not, I'm still credit worthy.
Nick Lincoln:Sure I can, I can't really associate with you and get the 900 so we can start.
Andy Hart:I sorry. My final point I mentioned earlier on the show, but I'll put a link in the so called show notes. It's called historical newspapers. The website is at historic historic hyphen newspapers dot code at UK brilliant worth checking out and just a bit more detail around that you can buy the paper for like 30 or 40 quid you can get it in a premium box for about 45 quid and you can throw in a bottle of wine as well if you wish to. So they've got it all sorted. It's well packaged and they it's amazing what they do. So yeah, do check it out a special gifts for clients, let's call it
Nick Lincoln:Yeah, great. That's such a great idea. Okay, the final culture corner is From della Vaucher he wants to go Lost Boys. Wow. Yeah.
Carl Widger:This game of life can be tricky sometimes. And this time of the year is great. And it's brilliant. And I'm really looking forward to spending the time with my kids. But not everyone is that lucky all of the time. And I think we all got to be cognizant that you never know what people are going through the the, the best investment I've ever made for myself is the Insight Timer app, which is basically 70 quid a year. And you get like 1000s and 1000s, of meditations. And I think I've mentioned her before, but I'm a little bit obsessed with a lady who does meditations called Sarah Blunden. And I've put a link to one called accepting change. So this Christmas time, if you're having a few issues, because it's not happy for everyone all the time, because that'd be just bloody unrealistic. I recommend that you do yourself a favor, take yourself away for 10 minutes, download that particular meditation and listen to it. And it might take you several goals to get into meditation if you're not in it already. But it is really good. And it will definitely help calm your nervous system. And I just like to say thank you to everybody who has downloaded this podcast. Thank you for the words of support, wishing everybody a really, really happy and very, very peaceful Christmas and good luck and good night. I'll see you all in the new year.
Andy Hart:I would, I would echo that. Yeah. Thank you, everybody for listening. Merry Christmas. We're gonna come back next year with 26 Fresh shows the sort of show is maturing. But yeah, thank you very much for giving us.
Unknown:I'm not sure about the last of your
Andy Hart:precious time. Yeah, it means a lot that you're listening over to Alan. Yeah, I
Alan Smith:agree. Endorse everything that's been said. What is particularly good about this is building a community. That's the point building the communities Nick often says in the podcasts, it's not about us just disseminating our thoughts and wisdom. There's a lot of feedback and we get questions get community really looking forward to the live event next year, as Nick says, if we can find a bloody venue, we will we we will, we'll sort it out. Even if we bloody standard a field or a pub or something will get organized. And I just that, to me is just the most powerful part of this all no one's got a unique sort of approach to ideas. We've all got ideas by bouncing them off amongst each other and sharing with the community. We all get better as a result. So again, for me and from all of us. Thank you very much for being part of our journey. We look forward to engaging next year. Over to you Chairman
Nick Lincoln:antastic stuff. Yeah, fantastic stuff I echo that we're closing in on 100,000 downloads it's been an amazing and amazing ride so far 35 episodes in thank you so much for your kind words, whenever we meet or interact with any of the Trappists there's absolutely it's just staggering to me certainly. And just just want to say thank you and wishing you all a very happy Christmas and a fantastic 2020 for both. I think that is a wrap for this episode. If you want to leave a review please do so on iTunes you know the score six out of five, don't don't muck around, don't be stingy, it's time of giving us and they'll give a really good review. And make sure you subscribe and then that every Thursday in the early hours you'll get a new baked loaf of trap on your phone or device of choices there also like a subscribe on YouTube we've now got about 600 people I think on YouTube and that's which is quite hard work. It's quite a significant number. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you Thank you have a good one. Take care out there at the OS over and out and see you on the other side through the mother in law's through the brussel sprouts through the bunny Turkey goodbye get that on my computer
Alan Smith:all of you happy Christmas
Andy Hart:well done for not swearing in that episode lads.
Nick Lincoln:Well, I was about to say
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