39 - The Wealth Transfer - Hype or Real?

TRAP LIVE IS HAPPENING ON 9th MAY 2024. BUY TICKETS HERE: www.therealadviserpodcast.com

In this latest pile of TRAP, the Trap Pack discuss

- Topical issues, including TRAP Live announcement, scams, the Irish FPSB, accountants and pensions and misconceptions, Irish consolidation, retirement living standards, the destruction AND creation of wealth, HUM Premium price changes, MS Copilot
- Meat and Potatoes: The Wealth Transfer: Hype or Real?
- Questions posted by our beloved TRAPists Will Bennett https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-bennett-dippfs-7a230792/
- Culture Corner

Links referred to in the show:

CW: Samantha Russel is www.twitter.com/samanthatwenty
NL: www.tiny.cc/ifaforum
AS - Scams https://x.com/alanjlsmith/status/1751905578580873378?s=46&t=sRHfdIQon2TfFJRFg7K23w 
AH -THE RETIREMENT LIVING STANDARDS - pro savings and thinking https://www.plsa.co.uk/Policy-and-Research/Topics/Retirement-Living-Standards - https://moneytothemasses.com/news/pension-needed-in-retirement-rises-in-2024-amidst-cost-of-living-crisis
AS - Wealth destruction at scale https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/funds/cathie-wood-ark-invest-wealth-destroyed-tech-stocks-morningstar-arkk-2024-2
AH - 15 Top Wealth Creators in the Fund Industry - https://www.morningstar.com/funds/15-top-wealth-creators-fund-industry-2 
Wealth Transfer - Is the Hype Real?  - https://www.humansundermanagement.com/blog/wealth-transfer -
AH - Stutz - Phil - Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81387962 
AS - Tim Ferris with Noah Kagan podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_htIvi4JzOs
CW: Happy Birthday Triplets this Valentine’s Dayhttps://music.apple.com/ie/album/this-is-the-one/325549329?i=325549345 

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:09

Welcome to The Real advisor podcast, t r a p twerp. Please follow us and join in the conversation on Twitter at Pfizer podcast, where you can suggest ideas and themes you'd like the track team to discuss. Also remember to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and leave a six out of five star review on iTunes. Doing all this really really helps us which means we can do more to help you. Now let's head over to the studio for the latest pilot trap yes indeed, dear Travis, welcome back to what many people are calling episode 39 of the real advisor podcast T our trap. My name is Lincoln and joining me as ever in the digital studio of boom. Three are the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. And the ultra hot cold deliver which I'm Alan the storyteller Smith now without any hanging around because we got a show packed full of that salutely Nothing Mr. Handy heart please read out small High Energy Reviews. Brilliant. We've got two reviews today. The first one is from John Murphy way. Excellent podcast five stars. As a solo practitioner in Ireland I get a lot of value from the fun, informative and topical discussions between the good bunch of guys with whom I share the philosophy of delivering real financial planning to clients will definitely be at the live event in 2020. For more on that soon. Next up we have a one star review disappointing from the US HS cult. Nobody should be paying one to 1.5% for this bog standard bobblehead advice, nor should they be paying for hand holding. These guys never mentioned investment risk management and appear to have forgotten Buffett's golden rule of it's spelled wrong by the way. Don't lose money. Who's Who is that review from haich s Colt CLT. Yes, I was wondering. Anyway, the one out of five star reviews as much we appreciate the five star reviews because we don't want to be all things well, and we are created to make podcast hosts humble. That's what I think. Exactly, exactly. Although sitting on the fence, I think that guy's from a different part of the world than we occupy. So let me just scroll down here and my thing right while you're waiting there being very patient. Hello, dear Trappist. This is TLP great news. Somehow the four knuckleheads have managed to have real estate and time and venue for the first ever trap live event is happening on the later afternoon of Thursday, the ninth of May, doors open at

3: 2:51

30pm. The venue is the historical Lola's bar at London's famous hippodrome casino right in the center of town details including a link to purchase tickets can be found at the real advisor podcast.com forward slash track live unbelievably, people like you are actually buying tickets fast so don't hang around get your tickets and come to the what many people are already calling an absolute shambles. See you there the lovely Penelope chichi took a few days to get there right and quickly play four or five seconds if you've got kids in the car just mute for the next four seconds gentlemen laugh out loud in about five seconds as if you're hearing this details including a link to the purchase tickets. Fuck Oh my god. I can hear all the drops but the three other members of the trapping cannot so I'm holding up a vitamin D canister to the screen to indicate when a drug is being played. This is what the world we live in. Hi Tech. So topical titbits Andy TLP was talking about a very significant event coming up please elucidate some more. Yes, so this is the official live launch of trap live on the ninth of May in London in Lola's, as it's the official launch, we have a special discount promotion code for those of you who want to grab a ticket, we sent a an email to a pre launch list and a lot of tickets have been bought, or our final 45 tickets. So 105 have been sold. We've got our final 45 tickets as a Brucey bonus for you trappers listening to this and hopefully you're listening to this early on a Thursday. There's a 10% discount on the first 20 New tickets after the show gets gets launched. So what you need to do is need to go to our website, which is the real advisor podcast.com advisor with an E, the real advisor podcast.com and the promotion code to get 10% of your ticket once you click the ticket link Is track 39 tra P all capital letters 39. So TR EP 30 939 track 39 That is a discount code 10% of the real advisor podcast.com Hope to see you there and we're going to sell out this show hopefully a couple of months before it kicks off back to your boss. Great Great. We're all four of us are super excited about this as well as being super mega nervous. Mr. smithy you've got a new spot today we're connected to what looks if it looks like a scam and smells like a scam and walks like a scam. Is it a scam? Alan, I'll leave it the words into into hanging out of your mouth. I believe that it could be a scam. This. I mean, this is this is an obvious scam. But I think the kind of the additional story here is what does what do people like us do when we when we see something which is an obvious scam. There is an organization that I posted this on Twitter 10 days ago or so. There's an organization that go by the name T P P, and they are all over the all over Facebook advertising and all over social media advertising what they claim to be the best possible returns available. They're claiming something like 45% annualized return. If that's not a red flag, I don't know what it is. But interestingly, the quote the London Stock Exchange as being supportive of this, they quote something like London Stock Exchange's are supposed to have seen as supposed to have said in support of this and what I did when I saw this, I thought there are people I mean to us in the game is just obvious scam. What do you do you see something you kind of move on? You do your best to, you know, to warn anyone around you. But I posted it on Twitter and I tagged in London stock exchange at LSE PLC as is their their Twitter handle. I also tagged in the FCA being our our regulator and are also tagged in the Advertising Standards Agency. Because obviously, this is somebody who's advertising something under false premise. So far, the total response from those three Augusta organizations has been two fifths of zero, absolutely zero response. Now I'm not sure what I mean, I presume somebody out there in these organizations have got, you know, enough people out there monitoring social media and sort of what making sure that we're all behaving ourselves. But I just find it quite intriguing that we can tag in all these other organizations something which is obviously an absolute scam. And I guarantee you that it's these people don't spend money on Facebook advertising and other social media advertising if you don't get somebody who is taking the bait. Yeah, and so far, zero response, you know, Tumbleweed from any anyone else. I don't know if any other advisors have seen this. I think a couple of other people did respond to the tweet that I put out. But it's worrying. I'm just not quite sure from a whistleblowing viewpoint what any of us are actually supposed to do. But so far, the response has been absolutely deafening silence. The thoughts is wrong on so many levels. Obviously, all the publishers and platforms are somewhat responsible Facebook, Google, some of the newspapers that publish this guff, these greed scams are not going anywhere, you know, fooling their money easily parted. They must be, you know, absolutely, you know, inundated with 10s 20 new companies set up every single day. So it is hard to try and sort of manage this sort of firehose of scams. But yeah, well, I'm for reporting and we'd likely that you'll get no response from it. I heard it color. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. My phone was on. Okay, look just just from the like the world on for the whistleblowing, like maybe the regulator is dealing with it but surely, from a communication point of view, they should kind of maybe even send you a direct message or something like that to let you know. Yeah, just acknowledge right. Yeah. Because like you know, look here we are trying to make sure that we're like you know, dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's all the time in terms of what we do for the regulator and yet we see that kind of stuff out so surely it's a good thing for people to be almost doing their police work for them in terms of reporting this stuff so they'll get is a bit a bit disappointed but well done for for any you guys in audit but any one of you to UK based if you see something which is blatantly a scam, do you do anything about it just a matter of interest? Do you ever do you ever? I've done a few different things over the years, sometimes you can report things and get yourself into a whole heap of mess and then you get another link sent back to you and then another 50 questions and they're gonna call you. So sometimes you try and do a good thing and you end up just in a in a bit of a mess, but I see it everywhere. And as a regulated adviser, obviously, it boils my blood, but at the same time, you've got to pick your battles, I suppose. Okay, yeah, I Because I just don't. So I'm not on Facebook. There's a lot of stuff on Facebook. Lots of rubbish on there. Yeah, I don't read into the trade press. So that doesn't get that I didn't send the nonsense in there. I just don't see as I tend to learn these things after the event, you know, after that the London and that this bond, Miss sales offshore, the bonds, hotels, condominiums in sips kind of stuff, you know, I just don't. And I just put a pot of these things. What's the point? You know? Yeah, so we know there are whistleblowers like, Neil. Now, one of the IFA forum members is that there's a guy in Castleford, Castleford, called Neil Liversidge, and he's very vocal. And he he's called out loads of scams before and written to the FCA and told them and had no response before the event. Nothing really nothing. And he's done it for years and years document this, she's got this, if you know him, he's very thorough, and he's kept all the correspondence he's sent off to the regulator in advance of the fact saying, these are scandals waiting to happen. And a lot of these things, unfortunately, I think it was the London capital and finance thing, the one you're referring to, that ultimately, despite the fact that it was not a regulated investment, or anything at all, and it was just ripped off, I didn't know that there was millions and millions 10s of millions involved. But I if I'm, if I remember correctly, a large portion of that did end up with the FSCS, which we all support by the levy, we all have to pay for these things. So there's something deeply amiss with the regulator, that there isn't an automatic or simplistic way. And if they haven't got the resources, then they need to get the resources because this is if too, is too easy and too blatant for people to just rip people off, do you guys not have so if a firm purports to be a regulated firm, and they're putting out some, you know, investments here, that the Central Bank of Ireland will send out a report to say there is a firm saying that they're regulated or not regulated? You need to watch out? Is there something similar there you have something called the something list? I think there is, I think there is that but when you know, and if you're getting, I can't believe that I was the only person who saw this and reported it if you're getting more than a handful of people who just pointing this out to regular. That doesn't. I mean, I think there is a thing looked at a while ago, there was something called whistleblower, your whistleblower at FCA. But again, years ago, I sent a couple of messages absolutely into a black hole zero. That's what Andy was saying. Like, you probably have, like, you know, a questionnaire that's going to take you four days to do but it'd be the reason I asked that question was maybe it'd be interesting to see is that TPP firm on that list now that's published by the FCA in the UK? But anyway, maybe yeah, we do have that list is quite endless. There's loads of firms on it like it's now it's more shocking there is a whistleblower approach you can take and that they then you get tumbleweed, I think it's part of me thinks, well, there wasn't something and then listen, not pretending but actually put something out there, we'll report it. And then to get not even a holding email, you know, saying we'll be back we'll be back with you in 48 weeks. Once we've completed our diversity and inclusivity review. Okay, let's move on to the next topical thing by the way, if you want to pick a drop now guys, I'm gonna put my hand up the camera so it's easy for me to put my hands up the camera, there's a drop playing when it's not there. It's not the next point and topical tip, which is me my if a forum this, this Google Group monster that I've created, is now 476. Members, it can get very busy. So you're more than welcome to join. There's a link in the SoCal journals to do that. There was a thread on the IFA forum recently. Interesting when this clients accountant told the client that you are going to have to pay a tapered annual allowance tax charge because you paid in more than the tapered annual allowance. And the client, according to his IFA was a bit befuddled about this. But why didn't you tell me Mr. Accountant in advance of the fact that's one of these crossover things, isn't it because the accountant I guess, should know about the tapered annual allowance rules, we won't necessarily know what the client is paying into his workplace pension in terms of employee contributions, and maybe ad hoc personal contributions. So that's one thing, but then also in that thread, it came up yet again. The accountants don't quite still understand the rules around pensions and things that we take for granted the kind of you know, with a fish in the in the in the bowl, and this stuff is just it's just all water. It's all around us all the time. We we don't even know it's there. Almost this account didn't know that employer contributions count towards the annual allowance slash tapered annual allowance. So I'd say to all financial advisors on this point, especially younger ones who might be slightly in or have accountants don't underestimate how little some accountants understand about the utility of pensions as a way of getting money out of a company into an inheritance tax free environment, but be also around the allowances and so forth. I found that I found that quite quite shocking. Any thoughts guys? Call your own. I was just muted there just for a second but a look, I think most if you can engage with the accountants tax advisers of your client families, it will it develops the relationship more More and more. And I don't purport to know all of the tax rules, and I don't know many accountants who purport to know all of the pension rules. So there is a synergy that you can make there. And I think it works really, really well for the for the best types of client outcomes, because if you have your tax advisor running alongside your financial planning advisor, you know, under strategies are synergize, I think that's where people will get will get the best outcomes. So I think rather than almost saying accountants don't know, I think maybe if you can start to try and develop and forge those relationships, it's a, it's a good way forward, we definitely have lots of examples whereby tax advisors would join into meetings with plying families, and it works really, really well. So I would encourage everyone to have a look at that. Okay, good stuff. So Ultra, the retirement living standards thing. Let's count or go a couple of points, or is it my one next? We'll come back to I've missed it. Thank you, you dropping the ball again, German. Okay. My point is, there's an organization called pensions and lifetime savings Association, who would have thought, and they came up with a recent study called the retirement living standards, this has got quite a lot of press, you know, like them, or lower than these types of studies that come out. But as I say, it's got a lot of precedent last week. And it's basically saying, what level of income net income does, there's a single person or a couple need to come in every single month to live a minimum moderate and comfortable retirement. If we just take the couple section, they say a couple deliver minimum retire, a minimum lots of lifestyle in retirement, a couple of need to have about 22 grand coming in a moderate standard of living in retirement 43,000 and a comfortable standard of living in retirement. 59 grand so let's just call it 60 grand five grand a month. Yeah, I mean, I'm sort of pro these studies because it gets people thinking and it gets people saving, you know, you could argue, you know, all of these bland figures that they come out with, you know, a pointless it's all specific to the individual, the couple of the family, which is correct, but if it gets his thinking about it, and it gets them being a bit more pro saving pro pension, then you know, again, I'm a fan of it. Any thoughts? I'm not a massive fan of these kinds of things that that there's such subjective word minimum moderate comfortable, somebody's comfortable is somebody else's bloody painful, a comfortable lifestyle in in the Northeast of England. Might not be enough to furnish careful Nick Trappists in the Northeast of England are they're lovely people and they're lovely people, lovely parts of the world. Darren Darren Castle Superpark Cumberland co some of the best walks in the UK. Nevertheless, the cost of living is slightly cheaper than w one. So it's Simon in Watford Nick come to a retirement in Watford is FotoZap banks about three hacen presents a day lightly toasted No it's I'm I'm on your side and this one is slightly kind of clickbait ish it's I mean you're right but you can you can live frugally in certain places you can but to say minimum moderate comfortable but I suppose you're right and they've been comfortable eyes 1000s A month net after tax ideally the mortgage is gone the kids are not costing you any money you've hopefully given up on the shiny useless things and understand what's important in life is not bad for a typical client retiring on five grand a month bearing in mind the state pension was sold out keep it simple to grandeur that they just need to find three chaos wherever their investments and pensions so not too bad. What worries me about these kinds of Think Tank report things is the next thing you get now is another thing tank will say oh the government must step in and assure that every couple has a minimum guaranteed income of 22,400 pounds a year and it's just all these quangos and sort of, I don't know, just flotsam and jetsam out there coming out with these reports. Yeah, and I think I take the point I knew that if it gets people it to encourage people to look at savings and investments, then it's a good thing. I think it has little or no relevance to real financial planning because we're not Yeah, it's not a budgeting service or real financial plan. It's you tell us what is your lifestyle costs? So it's bespoke, it's it's individual. So I'm not sure I would put too much weight on that at all to be honest. Okay, guys, thank you. 20 minutes. Sorry, Carl. I really missed I missed two points. I do apologize. The first one for you. Was your when you thought you're going there to pay lip service to this august body that you went and went and have an afternoon with to talk us through? I did not so I went to the financial planning standards board. It's so I'm gonna I'm gonna say great things everybody. So, Amer Kirk is the CEO of the F p SP in Ireland and she has brought together At the CFP professional advisory Forum, which is basically a whole bunch of kind of bigger firms, I would say, think Mattis was, by a long way, the smallest firm at the meeting. And the whole idea was to how can we professionalize financial planning from the point of the CFPs. And interestingly, there's nearly as many CFPs in Ireland as there is in the UK, which we can talk about or not, but I thought it was really good. It was it was Dante de Gori, who's the CEO. And by the way, isn't it, I just thought it was a brilliant, brilliant name. And he's a great guy. And he did a great presentation. And it was just so engaging, and he was so engaging. So it was great. He's the CEO of the F. P. SP, worldwide, he made a couple of really, really fair points, which, you know, probably I'm in a rush to make real financial planning profession, and we can call it an industry. And he just made the point that look, the FPSB, worldwide is 20 years old this year. So it's very new. So we got to be patient in terms of how we, you know, turn this transactional business into a profession, that it's fine for us to call it a profession. But really, we're only a profession, when the clients who consume our services, call us are feel like were on a par with their doctor or tax advisor or whatever. And I thought it was a very fair point. So they're kind of only getting going. But I just congratulations to to Emer for putting the group together, there was a lot of people in the room that I knew of, but had never met. And it was really great to meet them and excited for where the group might go to I did ask the question about what's the mission or the vision for the group and Amer was on himself say, I don't really know right now. But we taught the first point of the starting point was just get the group together. So well done. Yeah, that was a superpower and sometimes saying, I just don't know, isn't there? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I taught you know, that I'm, I'm in so for the next one, because you are totally honest. And it's up to us to really dictate where it goes from here. And yeah, the CFP is somewhat lost. It's sort of seen in the UK, really, because it used to be mainly sort of managed, sort of administered by the IFP. But the big one that people focus on the UK is the chartered designation, which I think there's just about 5000 chartered wealth managers, Chartered Financial Advisors in the UK. Are you one of which mean, Nick, are not proud members of that cohort? But I think I think you're Nick and I think your childhood on your honor. I don't know how you slipped through that. Now. Don't Don't encourage them now. My cover case, but it is an interesting point you make because the Yeah, it's, I think we've talked about this before just always reminds me Monty Python sketch the People's Front of Judea, the Judea People's Front, because it was CFP certified versus chartered. And you and uh, yeah, it is it. I don't know why it didn't really fully get embraced because there's, there's a lot of people who do proper financial planning in the UK. But the CFP assessment of licensing which is, as we know, is a global standard, you can in theory, you can practice your craft, anywhere in the world under that license recently an American thing but it's globally you've got almost as many in Ireland I don't know what the population differences are sort of, you know, licensed financial planners, but their numbers are quite significantly different much more in the UK. But you're right and the i f p. Yeah, did lose the way a bit obviously Nick can got ill unfortunately and has now been subsumed by this ci si. People still do the CFP license but I don't know when the charter just for some people sounds better. To the longer it's just been does this mean that's as an institute chartered charters badge as a Chartered Financial Planner hasn't been around longer than a CFP. That's about 200 years old, I guess. So it's had this groundswell of membership. And then No, it has it has Yeah, that does the it does but of course, we've got Chartered Accountants we've got chartered that that name that badge seems to carry more we just credibility public like it's not as me now to tell any new professionals in the UK what to do. Right But would you not be better off getting the worldwide I gonna travel? Am I right in saying most of the CFPs in Ireland are usually the large sort of corporate firms. I think there's a there's a big suite and a large portion for sure. And that was one thing that was brought up, you know, how do we get people who have the CFP designation to actually practice being a financial planner. So there's got to be have to be a movement from the bigger firms to actually do financial planning, which was very encouraging for me A number of them who've got this CFP license Yeah. Like financial planning. If they got the CFP, they get the CFP they go and get a job at the bank and then they do no CFP, obviously, you know the classic that's that's the key thing to work at. That's, that's obviously a thing. Yeah, that's why you call that's why you'll be brought into that group as a comment. So I just looked up just a bit to put the word planning in Ireland. The group we're we're really everyone I think was pretty open. They all listened to trap so sorry for all the controversial things I may have said about firms. In the UK, you know the word fun is mental well being touchy feely, bullshit, rage, but certified means you've got bats in the belfry doesn't it? It's not the best adjective to describe qualification. Carl, on to our next point. gathering pace. Yeah, so very briefly very quickly. To UK firms have started the consolidation of the IFA market in Ireland. Both fairstone and Kingswood have announced acquisitions in the last week or so this is something that has been talked about an awful lot over the last few years. But very, very, very little has happened. And the general insurance market has had this going on for the last few years. I think pretty much all the consolidation that's going to happen has happened there. So we're at the outset of this. Interesting, very interesting to see what will happen going forward. So just thought I'd mention it. Okay, cool. So just trying to keep some order. We're now down to well, let's go off with wealth, destruction, destruction. Initially at massive scale. I think smithy, you want to just run run this one. Just briefly, an article which appeared recently in Morningstar. And I will say I'm, I'm enjoying reading Morningstar, they're online blogs, and articles and content is generally pretty good, well researched, data driven, and relevant. And so an article that a journalist at Morningstar recently caught my eye, and it was all about what they kind of refer to as, you know, large scale wealth destruction. And it was speaking specifically about the famous Ark investment fund run by the run by Cathy wood, which I think we've certainly spoken about this fund and Cathy wood in particular, on the podcast in the past. And it's just really, really interesting in that they wouldn't Morningstar do and I think they're the only place I've seen who be able to track this this data, but they do. I think the phrase is dollar dollar weighted returns. So they analyze how much money has been in the fund during the periods of various investment performance. And of course, what often happens, and specifically happened with the Ark fund was that it did kick off and had some quite spectacular performance. Kathy would piled in, you know, famously to all these sort of tech stocks, which were ripping away and kind of crypto type investment funds. And they enjoyed some spectacular returns, whilst almost nobody was invested in it. And of course, human investors being human investors look at the historical recent past performance. And then at the point of maximum return, historically, they all pile in. And as we all know, tracking how that fund has performed in the last few years. It's been an absolute disaster. So for the average investor, the average investor has lost a lot of money, the figure that Morningstar have tracked it to be is get this $14 billion of total wealth destruction as a result of people piling into this fund. After the historical performance has taken place. That's a hell of a lot of money to burn actually for, for retail investors. Have we got any idea how much money she earned throughout this 14 billion wealth destruction, absolute fortune, there carry on taking their their fees clearly out of this? They seem to have encouraged she's you know, she's high profile. She's an older kind of CNBC and the news channels and stuff in the States. She's not She's not shy about promoting her fund. And money has been fetched. There was still gathering assets, people still piling in, can I ever hopeful of a return to glory as the fund has come back a bit recently, obviously, with the continuing sort of upswing in tech stocks in particular? Yeah. But there is still a huge volume of people underwater, because it's just the classic and I mentioned as well the other one. Sorry to upset Andy and his close personal friend, Terry Smith, my Uncle Terry. But the famous funds Smith fund is broadly similar to this as well, in that fund, Smith global, I wouldn't say it's broadly I'm pushing back on that it's not broadly similar to this. They're not very funds, move an arc, whatever it's called Cash. Okay, I see it's quite at the same extremities of the volume. I don't think he even though it's a very successful fund and raising investments. I don't think he's burned up quite as much, but certainly as a fund that had outperformed the market. Smith is still over 500% up to my point, nobody was investing in it at launch. There was a new startup fund. And this was somebody and I like Terry Smith was going to be an active investor like is how he speaks at his investors. You know, ATMs and things like that. He's He's but as managers go he's but he but he changed career really, he was what was he was a sort of bond trader or currency trader or something got into thought he opened a retail apartment. Well, there wasn't. There wasn't a there wasn't a lot of people invested in him. On the day one point being you had a great he had a great run, it was a highly concentrated portfolio of a handful of stocks have performed very, very well. Then the lemmings pile into it. It is now underperformed the market three years consecutively. He's way underwater on the last five years versus the holdouts where the point being that most of the money has gone in after the performance has occurred. This is the thing there are inevitably they're off starved staffed by managers, there has to be the very nature of a market there have to be people who outperform the broader market. That's just you know, that's maths. The trouble is retail investors piling after the money after the best of returns have happened and then they suffer the downside. That's what's happened throughout this whole thing. Large scale wealth destruction. Okay, that's that's that's that's all. Let's go from a well made point about wealth destruction to an even better point about wealth creation. Yeah, just a point on Morningstar, Morningstar are enormous. They do so much stuff that I probably don't even know half the things that are up to you. I don't even own a platform now in the UK. And the produce is a bit of a mix between sort of Vanguard behavioral stuff and sort of JP Morgan sort of analytical stuff. So they've got some awesome stuff. So following on from that, Abraham ogunsanya, a good friend of ours, good friend of the show, that a post on Twitter. Again, it's Morningstar. The article is entitled 15, top wealth creators in the fund industry. And then it's got a list of the top 15 funds that have the amount of wealth they're potentially created. I'll talk very briefly about the top and second fund. So the top fund is the Vanguard Total Stock market index fund. Based in the US, it's 1.4 trillion. And the estimated wealth as in the returns that that fund has created is around about 900 billion. So four or 500 billion is contributions. Twice, that is the returns. That is insane. Talk about wealth credit. So she's shafted a load of you know, financial investing illiterates at 14 billion, and the smart people have put their money there. And they've created almost a trillion just in that one fund. That is insane. Number two fund is Vanguard. 500, which is the sort of s&p Tracker fund again, its current font sizes is just under a trillion and it's returned is wealth. It's created a 625 Billions This is astronomical numbers. The thing it's quite interesting is top 15 funds have predominantly index funds, six or seven number Vanguard, so it's interesting reading to scroll along it HaKadosh hockey, thank you for that. And we're going to close off, Mr. MAGpie has flown back into the room. Alan, tell us about your latest infatuate your latest learning project. We've I was set I was telling you guys about this before and it was all very positive at the time. We've we've now installed Microsoft copilot, which is the obviously the AI enabled tool across all the Microsoft suite. So your your outlook, your emails, your Excel, your PowerPoint, all that sort of thing. And we were able to begin to play with it right, it already looks really, really impactful. The impact this will have, you know, on our business here are industry sort of global sort of initiative that will happen. The only thing I will say and it does look amazing. I'm 99.9% Positive. But what it does, you've got to then you've got to suddenly embrace an entirely new version of Microsoft Outlook, which I've been using the same one for, I don't know, 20 years or something. And it's taken a bit of time to get used to everything that used to be in a certain place is now in a different place. I'm sure we'll quickly it's like we use the Change your car or something and everything's slightly, not quite what you've been used to using for a while, but I'm sure we'll get used to it quickly. It looks extraordinary, looks amazing. And just you're sending a couple of emails debilities that have to distill all the emails in my inbox and identify the important ones to do summaries and reviews and send it back. I think the productivity gains are really going to be something I mean, obviously everyone's talking about it, but to see it in action and to have it sort of in our company right now is really it's really quite powerful quite positive. I'm sure you guys who don't use Outlook, who use Apple and Google everything. They've all got their own versions of it. So I think across the board financial plenty businesses in general and, you know, the world I guess and business in particular, is going to benefit significantly from just, you know, simple technology being applied to the tools we're already using. Don't expect an email reply from Alan for the next three months. Yeah. So 300 of them. So I looked into that sick responses. Great to meet you for lunch tomorrow. Did he was adjusted? Yes. Oh, good. Okay. Sorry, Andy. Yes, you have got a this our God humans? Did it. What does it tell us about it? Yeah, just a quick quick point on this. So I run a sort of membership site called humans on the management, premium, sort of outsource marketing, etc, etc. A couple of people are members of that long story short, we're having a price rise, the first price rise we've ever had on the first of March 2024. It's going from 99 pounds a month to 129 pounds a month. However, we are grandfathering in all the existing members on the 29th of February. So if you are on the fence about joining, please do subscribe. And then you can look in relation busting price 3030 odd percent price. We've we built an astronomical archive of content seems building out so we have to more minimally nudge up the price is going from one tell you it's worth every cent of the higher price. Thank you very much, my friend. Really appreciated. Thank you both. Yeah, goes with that lovely and over. Let's move on at 36 minutes in and so far, the platform hasn't crashed. We're all grateful. Let's move on to the meat and potatoes. You can't hear this guy's and Alan, you'll be glad for that. Because the scraper is going back and forth against the King Edward. That's not a euphemism. That's what you do when you peel potatoes. We're going to work the meat and potatoes of today's episode and this wealth transfer. This is the I think this might be a creation more of the financial services media than than anyone actually you advising in it at the coalface. But it's always there. It's one of those perennials. And this is the intergenerational transfer of money. So when adult clients die, parents clients die, they pass the money down to that their children. How much of that money is retained by the financial advisor? Who was the financial advisor to the parents that does the relationship end on the death of the parents? And he wants to talk about this. So you leave this off fella and then I'll, but we'll see. We'll see where we go from there. Yeah, that's a good starter. So the wealth transfer is the highlight reel. I suppose the reason why it's come to the fore is because the baby boomers, the silent generation have got so much wealth that they need to pass down now so that obviously the huge buzzword, wealth transfer moving assets down the generation are typically from older clients in their 70s 80s and 90s. And the question is, are us as advisors and Firms focusing on the people that will will receive the wealth? I've got about four or five families that look after three generations, which is, you know, obviously a privilege. I think practicing financial advisors do it anyway, it's the whole discussing the clients given with a warm heart rather than a cold hand. And we see money passing down the typical things that pass down to the typical reasons why money passes down, the obvious one is buying houses to two of my clients, actually, their kids were bought houses both 24 and 2024. That's quite young to be buying, you know, houses in London. So they're getting a real a real sort of leg up punchy flats in Greenwich and you know, on the Thames. And so anyway, buying properties are one reason to pass it down. And often they ask us, What do other families do in this situation? What number is an acceptable amount and it does feel like sometimes a bit of a sort of responsibility on our on our shoulders to just come out with the numbers you're in the meeting, you know, I think I think maybe 50 is the right 75 100 220 formula. And all of a sudden, you know, Billy or Sarah is already you know, they're buying a one bed or two bed just by the stroke of my my suggestion is quite interesting. I have to go a bit more. The the ultra grab a Darien Andy, he knows about everything. Andy can be told anything, his name is Andrew Hart. Okay, I'll cut to the chase. So putting our money up for buying properties. The next one that crops up is weddings. And the other one I see that's quite common is divorces of their children. And these numbers can be very punchy. So for example, they might be getting married, the wedding could be 30 grand the house deposit could be 50. The divorce could be 300,000. So yeah, and the other thing is, firms have sort of been swept up in this advice from now that you need to be vocal on tick tock, you need to be able to use whatsapp with the millennials. It's like we're using WhatsApp with 75 year olds anyway, we're using great tech anyway, we're not going to change because they're slightly younger and anyway, so I've seen firms go down rabbit holes of setting up services where, you know, they offer services to their children. The clients had the idea You know, I say to clients want to take them on Mr. Mrs. Couple usually typical, I say, you know, I'm here, you know, I advise the family if your kids have got any questions, workplace pensions, mortgages, high level stuff, you know, they can call me immediately. So it's always I've always opened that door to take on new clients to say it's a benefit work with me, I'm here for your kids and anything that the rocks up, but I don't have like a separate service. I've got a subscription model and everything's got a built in app and I've got some watered down version of investments, which is what I see a lot of firms do and they and they waste a lot of time. It's quite a big area, I think practicing financial advisors where, like you said, Nick, it's like the fish in the water or we're in it anyway. But I suppose when someone does a presentation about this wealth transfer on stage again, they're there. They're not the coalface you know, they haven't really got skin in the game. So that's my starter for 10 over to call me okay. Yeah. I don't know what you're laughing because I, Nick, you said you were gonna go, so I wasn't really ready. But I'll go. I agree with most of what you said, Andy. However, I think two weeks entirely ignored, it would be probably a little bit silly, right. So like, what we've done is couple of things. We've certainly offered Metis life plans to the kids of our more wealthy clients, especially if the kids are kind of maybe late 20s, or kind of nearly hidden party. I'd be totally honest, and say that lots of them have said that. That's a fantastic idea. Thank you very much really, really appreciated, and nobody's taken us up on it. But maybe that will happen over the next couple of years. So I think, you know, offering that service. I have conducted one family board meeting. And they told me it was great. But um, we didn't do it again. So I'm not sure how great it actually was. I am executor to the will of one family that we look after. But But look at my I have two other points in this right. Number one is, if you are going to be talking to the kids, right to 20 to mid 20s 30s. You know, a point I made in the last episode, which was don't be the crypto dinosaur, right. So you gotta understand where people are at? And I think no, they do. Yeah, well kind of acknowledge, you know, everything that all of their friends their peers are going to be talking about. And you know, if you're not investing in crypto, then you're a total loser kind of thing. So I think you got it, there's an education piece that you could be going through, or you could bring them through. So that's one point. But something very interesting. I was I didn't know Andy was going to be bringing this up. But in the last week, or maybe 10 days, Samantha Rasul who's at Samantha 20, on Twitter, posted that 70% of surviving spouses of Boomer husbands transfer to a different advisor within one year of the boomer husband passing away. So where are the stats from the United States, so Samantha real, so put that put this up, right. So my whole point, and this would be our focus here for absolute sure, right? Whereas we're kind of cognizant of the other stuff. But this is something that's, you know, an absolute non negotiable. If you're doing real financial planning, you got to do it to the cop, you got to do to the husband and wife, and you got to focus on both equally. And if there's one, one person within that couple, who's maybe not as financially savvy, or as investment savvy, or whatever, you gotta bring them on the journey. And I would be, you know, always saying you focus actually on that person a little bit more, because they need to know that you're their trusted partner, if something should happen to their family partner. And so I think that's really, really important to focus in on SO. Like, I think Andy's point, generally speaking, was the wealth transfer from the parents to the kids. I think actually, what we do need to focus on is the wealth transfer between spouses. So when one spouse passes away, that we make sure we have a really good and trusted relationship with the second spouse. So I think that that that's something that every real financial planning firm should be considering should have a strategy on and it should be an absolute non negotiable. But as you've alluded to, that is a slightly different point. But yeah, so unfortunately, I've lost four clients through death but fortunately, all four spouses have stayed with me because from the start that relationship I look after the family is everything sort of one all meetings are together. Yeah, good points. Over to you Alan. Sly through my to penicillin, Nick. Yeah, you go. It's fine. We had a I had a mess. Riverside's saying their servers was struggling to connect. So it kicked me out. But I think we're still recording. So please, by the love of Christ. Sure. Tell them what happened. Tell them at the live show. What happens, what the we recorded an hour and a half show that was amazing. And we completely lost it. And then we're doing it again. And we're now No, no, don't tell them. This point watch it Yeah. All about this subject of so called the great wealth transfer, what's going on? The great wealth transfer. So here's a couple of things that I've gotten, I do read about this quite, you know, it's one of these sort of things that comes up periodically, does that, as you say, and all this sort of so called experts and big companies, what are you doing about this, you're gonna lose all your clients and all your assets. So here's a couple of statistical facts that are firm, we're able to look at our client base and look at average ages, for example, average age in our firm of our clients is 62. So obviously, we've got people in their 70s 80s, and so on, we got people, you know, in the 30s, and 40s, younger, younger clients, by that definition, if you've got a couple who at age 62, looking at a lot of the, you know, the evidence, the chances are that at least one of that couple will still be alive when they're 90. So in theory, you know, from if you just look at a client preservation viewpoint, we're likely to have several decades of just our existing client base, you know, still in place will still be advising them still being give given them and I guess, you know, theory that the advice becomes even more valuable to those people, once you become, you know, older learners, you know, other more complex issues around tax planning, estate planning, gifting, you know, for sure helping out the next generation, but they're likely to still be clients for many, many years to come, hopefully, kind of other points that, as Andy was kind of alluding to, in order to, to assuming that they don't die anytime soon, this idea of gifting and gifting significant assets away to clients, you know, if you're need the what are, you know, looking at the statistics that you referenced earlier on, and it's a habit, you know, to have a comfortable sort of lifestyle, you're going to need 5000, net after tax per month, what sort of value of investment portfolio you're going to have to have, it's going to be quite substantial, you know, million, 2 million plus in order for that to happen, that's just to support yourself. I know that parents and elderly parents and grandparents do want to help their children and next generation, but they can't always do that or less, if they do so it may be at the cost of their own lifestyle. And I always say, you know, put yourself first to help the kids out where you can, it remains a challenge. I know fish, I know of at least half a dozen firms that have set up these kind of online platforms to help the kids and just so you can open your eyes. So your junior ICER account there, without exception the ball, close them down. Because the traction is close to zero, they just didn't get you know, you got half a dozen people that put a bit of you know, a bit of money on it just wasn't worth it for the platform providers who were, you know, creating this kind of bespoke jazzy looking, tick tock style investment platform to attract these youth. It just wasn't really getting getting any, any traction at all. So I think there's, it's, I would question the premise upon which this whole thing is based from personal experience right now, as a firm, we absolutely will help and we'll offer to help and have conversations, I don't think a 25 year old really needs a deep dive full fat financial plan, as often say they didn't know what they're doing at the weekend, nevermind like 2030 years from now. So it's all a little bit alien, a little bit unusual. What I do know is there are some key financial related issues that affect a 20 or 30 year old, the generally, there may be thinking of getting married and may be thinking of buying their first property. They might be having children, all those kind of lifestyle events. So you know, we're happy to meet with any any sort of children, grandchildren of clients, almost provide them a bit of a checklist. We don't do internet, we don't do mortgage advice, for example, but we've got a great network of people that can help them, get the first mortgage, you know, maybe get a deposit from parents, but get a good if it's a fixed mortgage rate, all those sorts of things. There's some basic rules, you know, get a will get an LPA get some basic ground things in place. You don't you're not necessarily going to lose half your client bank, and therefore have to have this complete entire strategy for transfer of wealth. So I'm calling it out as being a little bit suspect in terms of the you know, the importance of it to most full fat financial planning firms. Would you think, Nick, thank you, I have some points on this are Carl's points about the lady who mentioned that stat from the states that that is just That's unbelievable. I think that's why it's absolutely essential that you're always when you're on board clients. It's a couple, it's the wife and husband together all through the relationship as much as it possibly can be. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances but they both can't be in the same room at the same time something happens, right life happens, always the couple. And if for example, you have any dealt with the husband in the relationship and not really interacted with the wife, and the husband dies before the wife and she walks away, absolutely more power to her elbow. If you've had a lot a long relationship with a couple when the couple have always been present, and the wife walks away, once she's a widow, that's fine. You've you tried your best, she just doesn't like you. But to not to not even have the courtesy to get both people in the rooms over the course the relationship. I think you should walk. I think. Yeah, I think we live in a bubble. I think most financial advisors, typical financial advisors just look after individuals and pots of money. They are not as strict as we are on this. Yeah, okay. Well, that's that's what that's that's yeah, you can I can I just say as he's interrupted, you know, I'm gonna do it as well. You should have been a politician or you try to be a politician? Because you've answered a different question to the one that was asked this is this as I understood, it was a great wealth transfer into the next generation. Now we're talking about the couple shooting powers of attorney and wills out and that was quite that's quite the chill. Call brought in the couple's thing, and I'm just reiterating what one of the trap packers already said. That one of the beauties of trap is that it sounds like you're having a conversation with Bob. And I think that just be nice. But today, it is actually like having a conversation in a pub. Yeah. Carry on. Yeah, carry on. Exactly. So there's that okay, I should part of that. And I'm gonna come back to that because obviously upset storytelling. The other thing that's an intergenerational wealth, a lot of it. It'll only be the wealthier clients, I think where you're where the IFA, the advisors are going to be a situation so to maybe pick up that intergenerational wealth and here's an example. I've had a client couple I've been working with since 2002. They're in their 60s Now they're coming into that Financial Independence Day, where they can walk away from work at a time of their choosing, and their daughter now she's in her early 20s super bright young lady and I had a Zoom meeting with her with the parents recently and I said look next year, how about we just get your daughter involved in this meeting and they were totally receptive to that. And because of zoom you can do it husband can be over there. The wife can be over there daughter could be over there three different geographical locations and you can bring them in and you can bring the the daughter into the conversation and again, they may like you, they might not like it I'm not gonna change my approach for the door so I'm not gonna go tick tock and what have you on Instagram and have a have a special portal that she can she can never look into, because she can't be she's not interested. You can make it as exciting as you want. They're not going to buy it unless they buy you. And that's the that's the end of the day there. And I think also there's when the next get on stage and say the intergenerational funnel, this this waterfall of money is going to cascade down through the generations, you've got to they don't have a clue how bloody much work is involved I, I had a client who died a couple of years ago, nice guy lived in Whitstable on the down near the midway in Kent. And he passed away and I've managed about 300,000 pounds worth of his money. He came with me when I just started that my new firm, I just liked him. We've never done financial planning. He was more of an old style transactional guy, but I just felt obliged to look after because he came with me, right? It's one of those seed clients that helps me start my business. But I had no relationship with his children. He had three children when he died, they're each gonna get a pot of 100,000 pounds. And the mum, who wasn't inheriting this money for various reasons. So all three of my children want to come on board. And I thought, No, I just I don't want they don't know me from Adam. There's no goodwill there. There's three clients, I've got to onboard for potentially 100,000 pounds of investments because the children are young, they got more which isn't that's really not my target. I don't want that I'm sorry that I don't know today in 2008 would have been you'd have been doing the remarketing Andy, you know, helping them polyester suits with their proceeds. And the other reason is not just that I've got, I've got another client, John, who's this lovely guy coming towards the end of his days, I imagine he's got about a million quid in his pension, no children. On his nomination of beneficiaries former to go to a second page, he's leaving his pension funds about 14 nephews and nieces. That money can cascade cascade away as fast as it bloody wants. I'm not onboarding you. It's just an absolute logistical nightmare. There are technical things as well around this. I think we've got to accept that if you if the wealthier clients are the ones that can afford to put money into diocese for their kids, licensed for their kids can do the pensions for 2880 pounds net for their kids year in year out. They're the ones that you want to engage with because the money is going to flow down to them. They're the ones thanks to zoom or whatever terminology you use, you can bring them into the planning for even if even if the youngsters only coming for the first time into the meeting, meet my weird financial advisor, have a look. And this is what you can be if you follow this path. And that's what I think generally is going to be people who reach a stage in their life where they think well, I might not be continuing to work the rest of my life. They might be millennials right now might be 25 or 30, or whatever it might be, but at some point, the the need for the increasing levels of complexity, the need to get some sort of professional third party independent or oversight of you is always going to be there. It exists now God, there's plenty of 65 year olds that don't go near financial advisors and think they can DIY do it themselves, get Learn, learn on YouTube or whatever. I believe that always be sufficient people with enough ambition and sort of self awareness to realize that there's, this is complex, and they don't want to make big mistakes, which are often irreversible. These people are always going and there might be youngsters now, but there'll be clients of advisers in the future. And the last thing I'm going to say, and it's with a tinge of disappointment that I guess that what you've said there, Nick, is that you're not about to launch your own Tiktok channel we're not gonna see the youngsters not going to see Nick Lincoln on on Tik Tok giving them some financial advice I don't believe you'd be an absolute runaway hit on tick tock I think I'm going on tick tock if he goes on tick tock, I've got enough text enough time to make manage my Insta face channel. So there's no way Yeah, a couple of pointers. I mean, yeah. And alluded to it. You know, we work with slightly older clients with slightly more money with slightly more complicated situations. You know, we help them answer expensive financial questions, you know, am I going to be okay, what do I need to do for retirement? You know, what mistakes were making was 25 rolls they're just as you say, Living for the Weekend. They got minimal software, they got cheap financial questions. We're not really in that game. Quite an interesting one recently with real clients I keep it vague but Mr. And Mrs. put some money aside for their two kids to buy a house. So we put aside a chunk list they say 100 grand and it's been invested for a few years and then she's buying a house now so they said right, we need to give it the money. And one of the couples said I will give it 100,000 And then the other one said no, we'll give it with with the gains obviously. And then one of them said no, no, we've agreed 100 We can again, score interesting right unmute unmute Carl, come on on mute Okay, I think we've given a guy to be given wealth transfer a damn good thrashing we finished on a Hi there. Let's vote. Is it Is it real or hype? Alan hype? I think I think it's a thing I think but I think you can't just who you are to get if you want to get yourself I'm fudging I'm a politician. You sound. hype that a vote you real. You gotta be cognizant of one word. I say hi. But 331 Okay, right. Let's come on, let's just say post he's got this bloody knack of getting the sack up my drive. And this actually working not that you guys can hear it. So just watch the calluses on my hands on my beautiful skin. It's not seeing a day's work always live. As the beauty of having nappies in the Lower Field. A post is at the front door. And the sack is building. So we're going to pull we're going to pull one out from the sack. Let's see here. This is from I've got to change hands. I'm blocking the camera with different hands difficult to opening up this letter from I've got calluses on your hands or the hill, this face from the weight actually, it's from the grid. Anyway, this was from will who's on LinkedIn, I'll put I'll put the link to your LinkedIn profile. Well, in the circle shown it's this the bloody great question, but it goes on forever. So have a lie down after the first paragraph Travis. I'm a youngest IFA turning 29. In November, I'll be 38 by the time you finish reading this question he didn't say they should. And I've been in the industry for seven years or so I've been listening to the podcast for a while and find it really helpful to get outside perspective on financial planning other than those I work directly with. I know you're all advocates of passive investment strategies, and I understand that over the long term financial plan, which is likely to generate excellent returns, arguably, arguably more so than active managers can provide. But in the current climate, with advantages with sorry, with advances to tech and the availability of information and markets becoming more sensitive to sentiment, no idea. Is there an argument to explore active strategies in the hope of a more comfortable journey for clients possibly at the cost of not beating well known indices? If you can still achieve decent long term returns but have a smoother journey? Is that not what clients want quitting first? Yes, well, we're not here to your clients what they want. Well, we're here to give them what they need. Clients want absolute returns, clients want with profits, they don't work. If you want the superior long term returns, you take the volatility that goes with the volatility is your friend, Mr. Hart? He's going to be trying to be as close as I can here. But it sounds like he's swallowing all the latest investment, Bs, you know, and it's mainly focusing around volatility. I have put a great video together on this humans on the management about our informed risk scale. Check it out. There's four types of risks that people only focus on one of them the biggest flavor of risk is loss of care. at all, you need to diversify and no blow ups inflation is an exploit is the next dangerous flavor of risk. Money is purchasing power, not currency. He's focusing on volatility. Volatility is a feature not a bug of investing, and a dangerous risk that they've even talked about as low returns, which is silent, hidden and destructive. So it's great that he's on his path. And he's thinking about investing, but coming up with things like three out of 10 sentiment and what clients want, you know, he's got some learning to go, Alan. Yeah, I, I agree. First of all, there's no such thing as passive investing, you can't be passive, you have to make an active decision around things like asset allocation, I call it was simply efficient and effective about deploying and capturing the returns that are available to anyone. So it's not passive at all. But we do use an index does rolls off the total index investing call index, not passive asset class investing. But you're right. And I think we'll need a bit of tough love in this because what I would say and I'm going to refer obviously the line, you know, what, yeah. All right. So we'll did ask this, we're catching up with the questions which would have been left, once ago, if will has now has the opportunity to listen to trap 38, where we all did a bit of a deep dive in our own personal journeys in the place that we've all arrived at, because we will probably all thinking things like this, I certainly was when I was 2928 29. I was certainly thinking this sort of agree because I was indoctrinated by the people around me who were telling me all this stuff, and all the newspapers and magazines and trade press, etc. So it's fair and reasonable, he should have this but listen to trap 38. Because my view is you need to build a philosophy until you've done the work and there are no shortcuts. I honestly feel there are no shortcuts to this, you've got to do the work. And you've got to learn and you've got every single time you think of things like this, go to the source of the evidence and the data and the facts. There's lots of opportunities, there's lots of places you can go and source this information. We'll talk a bit more about this on trap live when you'll come along to that if you can, but find out do the work put the hard yards in because you will never ever raise a question like this again, will because you wouldn't need to because you've created a thought process and a philosophy and a filter through which you see every single investment opportunity for good or bad based on a philosophy that you own enter that race and the other huge red flag words from journalists or even advisors cautious balanced, adventurous I mean honestly shoot me. Okay, great stuff. Have we all had a call? Have you had your point on that? You done? There we said it will happen they'll call you are you are the man on? Okay, I'm now gonna move on to culture corner and I'll show you some different calluses. Enjoy these ones. Wow, okay, culture corner. So let's go. Okay, so um, first up, it's a Netflix documentary called Stutz. Phil Stutz. Jonah Hill. It's him and his therapists. They have candid discussions about various things that's going on in Jonah Hill's life. I think it's an awesome documentary. Do check it out. It's great. You see an insight into the sort of therapist client relationship. It's called Stutz s t u t. Zed. Check it out. I think Alan watched a couple of years back I'm sure you've mentioned this about three times before on this because the idea wardrobes might be getting confused. You said that you said that twice today as well as Groundhog Day. Is it just a quick question because I did watch it ages ago. Do you think there are any lessons for a financial planner watching that show about because he's obviously like a world class? Yeah, I think Coach consulting therapist I think the mental models he teaches Jonah are pretty awesome at the scribbling that he does when he's having the meeting with Jonah, you know, just different cards to explain concepts. Yeah, like anything. You take, you know, things small points from it and apply it to your own well, don't you? I think it's definitely worth checking out. I thoroughly enjoyed it. All right. Okay. Cool. Next. You Nick. No, because I've changed the show notes as I said earlier, and he put us on the podcast Curb Your Enthusiasm last series. Some people like it to have us on this call. Love it the last series and started I've watched the first episode not that great. Hope it picks up. Alan Neoga. That was it. Yeah, I've watched bits of it. I've watched all of it. I love it. Absolutely. Wonderful show my culture corner. Probably my favorite podcast is Tim Ferriss. I think he's the goat of podcasts. You get such really interesting people in one of his most recent ones. He interviewed a guy called Noah Kagan and Noah Kagan is also somebody I follow on social media quite a character, you know, tech entrepreneur. He's got a business called App sumo which is doing about 80 million of revenue. So Successful business in its own right. He himself has just written a book something called the million dollar weekend, which I have bought but not yet read. So therefore, I will not refer to that because you can't talk culture corn unless you've actually read the book, Mr. Hart. But this podcast that he does Noah Kagan on the Tim Ferriss show is four hours long. I haven't I've just about finished it. But the first one hour is well worth listening to. If you're in business, if you're building a business, creating a business, the stuff that Noah Kagan talks about, about, about exactly that, about how to generate revenue, how to cut reduce costs, various sort of tips and tactics that he's deployed to get to an 80 million pounds annualized revenue business, well worth an hour or so of your time. And if you'd like it, you carry on listening for the rest of it, but strongly recommended Noah Kagan on the Tim Ferriss podcast, thank you. Excellent, thank you. So my culture corner is totally different. And I'm going to go a little bit deep here. So this is the day after Valentine's Day, and Valentine's Day is the universal day of love. But in my house, it's also the winter triplets birthday. So happy birthday, Robbie, Rachel and Chloe and also a shout out to their little sister Emma. And it just taught the team of love and Valentine's Day. So I have a theory that I've been sharing. And it's that love is the greatest motivator so for your kids, you'll do anything for them because you love them. And if you can develop that and extend that throughout other stuff, I maybe your professional life and your love your work well then you'll be motivated to do more more and more great work. And then my final point before I launch into the song that I'm putting with all of this which probably makes little sense to anybody bought me is that just go and love yourself. So the song to go with all of that is this is the one buy the Stone Roses. Enjoy it everybody. I'm so glad we got through this episode. It's being absolute marathon. It has been but I've had quite fun as this because the second go around. Very quickly we did that we did a 90 minute show this morning TRAPPIST and the recording software just had a complete fit. So we've had to do two words in one day, but that's okay, I think that's a wrap. For this episode. We've entered our vows and the latest pile of crap has just been flushed down the tube end of time. Thank you dear TRAPPIST as ever, please do like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Most people listen to us through the years through their podcast to make sure you subscribe to your podcast, this podcast through your app of choice that way it arrives on your phone freshly baked 1am every other Thursday, we're going to play out with TLP once again, just reminding you about the event of 2024 May the night. See you there. Thanks right back at EOS Trappists. See, go buy your ticket. Hello. This is TLP great news. Somehow the four knuckleheads have managed to agree on the date and time and venue for the first ever trap live event is happening on the late afternoon of Thursday, the ninth of May, doors open at 3:30pm. The venue is a historical Lola's bar at London's famous hippodrome casino right in the center of town please, people like you are actually buying tickets fast. So don't hang around, get your tickets and come to what many people are already calling. Absolute Shambles gorgeous unlike you. Okay, let's stop that now. Well