HSDF THE PODCAST

Foundations for Innovation & Security at DHS 1 of 2

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Welcome to “HSDF THE PODCAST,” a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum.

Explore the future of IT modernization and AI integration at DHS with the department’s strategic plan for FY25 to 28. This episode highlights the necessity of agile and iterative delivery practices, ensuring a smooth transition towards SaaS solutions through effective industry partnerships.

Featuring:

  • David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer, Office of the CIO, Department of Homeland Security
  • Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer, Office of the CIO, Department of Homeland Security
  • Chris Granger, Executive Director, IT Operations, Office of the CIO, Department of Homeland Security
  • Reshea Deloatch, Executive Director, Solutions Development Directorate, Office of the CIO, Department of Homeland Security
  • Daniel Carroll, Field CTO for Cybersecurity, US Federal at Dell Technologies
  • Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz, Deputy CIO, Department of Homeland Security (moderator)

This discussion took place at the HSDF’s Technology Innovation in Government Symposium on September 26th, 2024. 

Follow HSDF THE PODCAST and never miss latest insider talk on government technology, innovation, and security. Visit the HSDF YouTube channel to view hours of insightful policy discussion. For more information about the Homeland Security & Defense Forum (HSDF), visit hsdf.org.



Follow HSDF THE PODCAST and never miss latest insider talk on government technology, innovation, and security. Visit the HSDF YouTube channel to view hours of insightful policy discussion. For more information about the Homeland Security & Defense Forum (HSDF), visit hsdf.org.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

What we're going to do first is we're going to start off with just please, just for everybody except Dan is on my staff, so I know what you do, but these folks may not so just briefly introduce yourself and just maybe give one or two sentences on the things that you're working on us. That might cue some questions.

Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer:

So, mike, we'll start with you oh, thank you, hi, mike weisman, the chief data officer, as the gigantic photo says behind me. Uh, my focus is obviously on data, but at the enterprise level, we I'll talk about information sharing, data sharing across the department. The biggest part that we're looking for for is to connect and enable mission and data usage through all the different mission areas, whether that's geospatial or even records management. What have you? Data inventory, what? All the different areas of the department making sure folks are connecting, using what we have, looking inward and re-utilizing that to best enhance our mission operations. Thanks for having me today.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

Dave Larimore, dhs Chief Technology Officer. My major roles involve oversight of the 300-plus acquisition programs, totaling to over $10 billion a year of IT spend, which has been a phenomenal opportunity and just really proud of that. Lately I've been all AI all the time, so I'm also assisting Eric Heisen, the chief AI officer of the department. Stand up, ultimately, the office of the chief AI officer right. So there's a lot of executive orders and OMB memos, and so I'm at the forefront of helping to make sure that we are using AI responsibly, safely and securely at DHS.

Chris Granger, Executive Director, IT Operations:

All right, chris Granger, I'm the executive director for IT operations. I kind of wear two hats at headquarters. One is a service delivery hat where we provide day-to-day capability to the headquarters and the management component. I also have the responsibility of network operations security center, so my staff works with the other components on incidents and things like that. I also have the several other programs on my portfolio, like DHS, cdm. I have the classified networks, the Homeland Security secure network. We have all these acronyms, like when I was in the Marine Corps we put MC in front of everything and we put H in front of everything here at DHS. So yeah, that's my function.

Reshea Deloatch, Executive Director, Solutions Development Directorate:

All right, my name is Rache DeLoach. I'm the Executive Director for Solutions Development Directorate. I have an enterprise portfolio of solutions, including financial systems, the DHS Enterprise Cloud, identity systems as well, and I really work with most of our customers to make sure that, whether we need management internal solutions or component solutions or enterprise solutions, I serve all those needs.

Daniel Carroll, Field CTO for Cybersecurity:

And I am Dan Carroll, field CTO for Dell Technologies Federal. We work with federal and DOD organizations to understand the challenges they're facing at what we call their mission edge, where their work touches people right, and we're currently working extensively with organizations to understand how they can leverage the transformative nature of the next generation of AI.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Great. So I think we can go to questions anytime. So if you have a question, please raise your hand and we'll run over. We have one right over here, Otherwise I will ask you questions. I know a few of you in the audience, so I'll call you out.

Guest:

Well, Semper Paratus, always ready. Thank you and congratulations on being the ancient albatross.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Yes.

Guest:

Yes, it's a high honor, Thank you. So I was just texting Luke and I told him he missed the biggest question what are y'all's barriers to achieving the goals that have been set by S1, Eric and the goals that you all have individually?

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Great question. So I know they all have different barriers, so we'll just go down the line and start with Mike. So first of all, I want to say that the data sharing piece is incredibly difficult. It's incredibly specific to the data set, it's incredibly specific to the personalities, the organization, and so I don't want to speak for your barrier, but I think that's probably pretty close. So maybe if you could expand on that or something else.

Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer:

Sure, okay, great question. Thank you for that. I will expand on that in terms of I'll take it as knowledge sharing. I think a lot of the times the biggest barrier we've found is going out in the field, and we have some folks out in the field now on a very kind of an experimental knowledge sharing. Experiment is where individuals, whether it be IT, program management or even operators, do not know what we have and even when they know what we have, they're not necessarily sure how to utilize it or know how to connect it to another data set or to another system and how that would benefit a law enforcement outcome. And that, to me, is our biggest barrier. When it comes to the ever-changing threat environment or managing transnational crime, when that is always evolving and always changing, being able to adapt and change at that pace with the size and scope of our data is probably my biggest barrier.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Yeah, we see a lot of people kind of trying to go it on their own right. Yeah all the time and so we try to put down that shadow IT and see if we can do something. Enterprise.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

So, dave, I'll try to be quick. For me, it's hearts and minds. When we talk about AI in the department or any organization, it is as polarizing as modern politics, and we do our best to listen to all sides. Right, there are a lot of individuals, a lot of groups, that are not necessarily against AI but don't understand it, and we owe them just as much time and energy on understanding what their concerns are and bringing that to how we implement AI responsibly, just as much as those individuals that are super excited to use the next model that comes out on a hugging face. So, hearts and minds.

Chris Granger, Executive Director, IT Operations:

Yeah, from my perspective, it's really about resources and how I use the resources that I have to be able to provide more efficient, more effective services In a resource challenge environment. You have to do more with less, so that's really the biggest challenge. I'm the gorilla in the room right, so I have the most people, the most budget, so it's a target in some cases. But yeah, that's really that's my challenge.

Reshea Deloatch, Executive Director, Solutions Development Directorate:

I'd say security infiltrators. I mean, we're only as good as our last release and making sure that we're constantly upgrading the software on all of these systems, so just constantly maintaining them and trying to make sure we modernize them so that we can beat a lot of these security risks.

Daniel Carroll, Field CTO for Cybersecurity:

I love sitting at this end because I get to hear all their answers and then talk how I'm going to solve them.

Daniel Carroll, Field CTO for Cybersecurity:

From the industry perspective, it's great so. So what's great about some of the things that they brought up is that AI did not start a year ago with ChatGPT or 18 months ago with ChatGPT Legacy. Ai solutions like federated learning are going to help with some of those compartmentalization problems. It's a way to keep your data in place, do the analytics where that data exists and only move the inferences up. It cuts way down on the security concerns, cuts way down on the comms requirements, which are very sensitive in a lot of areas, requirements which are very sensitive in a lot of areas. So it's using a lot of what we already know to advance. What I'd say is the next generation of AI is going to be critical and help with some of the knowledge management problems too. Right. So that capability to provide a learning environment through what I say is digital assistance in the hand right. So yeah, where you have a capability to leverage all of your organization's knowledge in the hands of the people at the edge to be able to work those systems is going to be incredible.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Great Thanks, Stan. Yep, Hi Bill Pratt, hey stranger.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

Bill Pratt.

Guest:

As we all found out. Oh, thank you, as we all found out. Unsurprisingly, we're in a CR, which has been the way we've operated for several, several years, and so I know you've all taken your budget requests to Eric and to Chris and got those approved at some level and now not going to get anything until perhaps December. So can you tell us how and, of course, for the industry? Now I'm not going to get anything until perhaps December. So can you tell us how and, of course, for the industry now, what your plan is over the next couple of months and then into the early part of 25 to take care of, as Chris was saying, this already problem of not having enough resources?

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Thanks, Mike, let's start with you again.

Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer:

Sure next time, we'll go back. Okay, all right, we'll go back. Okay, all right, I will go quickly, all right. Good question, bill. Thanks, good to see you again.

Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer:

The plan is, as always, built way ahead of time. We're not trying to pivot or react on a dime While I'm looking at the enterprise, I'm looking at the full scope of that. We're trying to plan ahead. We know when the spending bills are gonna expire. We know when this is gonna happen. I cannot predict the future at all, but we have to plan for the future. So the projects and what we're doing with data sharing, these are massive systems, as you're well aware to as well. These are massive systems. You, we cannot make changes overnight. So for me, that is part of the calculus to understand that while we are doing these projects and while we are doing that, we need to plan for that, because the bad actors out there, they're not taking a break, they are not going to care when the CR passes, they're not going to care for any of that. So we need to plan for that. So for me, that is just all part of the whole planning.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

So, from my perspective, a CR doesn't mean we have no money. Right, we're operating at a FY24 level. We and our partnership with one of you know our peers here Bob Doerr is not here work diligently to essentially sustain operations for critical contracts, for critical systems for, you know, national security systems etc. Right, those are will continue to run and we do our best to make sure that we are continuing to support our mission and that will continue to be, even in the CR, as we have proven for the last decade of constant CRs On the AI side of the world, which sort of has been constantly growing.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

What I see impacting from a CR perspective not as much this year. So a lot of the planning that we did around AI is really about FY26 and beyond. So this year we are using it as an opportunity to sort of look at how we are currently dealing with implementing AI projects. We're finishing implementing the AI executive order 14.1.10, finishing implementing the M2410 OMB memo and then, as we look towards the future, that's where we're really hoping for the ability to sort of really grow and explore with AI.

Chris Granger, Executive Director, IT Operations:

Yeah, so from my perspective, it's working with all of you as we go on, because this is going to affect you. So you know you're only going to get maybe one month payments at a time, right? So I appreciate you know the vendors working with us. They know I only get so much money at so much time, so it's a matter of just kind of juggling those things. It's become a way of life now. So unfortunately that's just what we do. So you know, we knew it was going to be a CR. We know the drill. You know this is what ended in May this year. So you know you have in our world the current folks are back there but we have, you know, 30 days to get all your PRs in, and so it's become a way of life. So if you're not planning for that, then you're not going to be able to live in this world. So it's really just understand the next bill and unfortunately you can't float the checks, but you got to stay out of that.

Reshea Deloatch, Executive Director, Solutions Development Directorate:

Yeah, I'll tag on to that. Definitely the pivot of resources, because we might think that we're building, working with civil rights, rights, civil liberties, on a case management system, but now that they have to transition some, some level of their objectives based on the money that they thought that they were getting, that they might not get, then now we have to pivot resources that we already have had on contract a different solution. So we are really heavily on the challenge of being able to pivot resources, but our vendors have been working really well with us on that.

Daniel Carroll, Field CTO for Cybersecurity:

And what I would say is, when I'm talking with organizations, I highly encourage collaboration. The funds are limited, but the funds you have coming in, how can you advance more missions with those funds right? Make sure if you have what I'd say is funds to do some sort of systems replacement. Are you looking at the zero trust requirements? Are you looking at your future AI goals? Are you looking at your multi-cloud edge goals? And what I'd say is can you make an investment that helps the bigger organization with your small investment? And it's amazing sometimes how that can come together to help the wider enterprise.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Yeah, I think Mike really kind of right out of the gate mentioned we're planning years out in advance, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that we were going to go into a CR during the election year, that we will probably see a budget sometime after January 20th, so we've already been planning for those things. So it's just how do you execute your programs, knowing that these things are going to happen, and then how do you make adjustments as things change over time, and so I think that's what our overall approach is. So thanks for the quick question. Do we have any more questions?

Guest:

Yeah, this is Dale Partridge with Mantech. Used to be in DHS Nice to see you, chris. Hi Dale. But the question is and it kind of touches with some of the answers or some of the compliments you meant there as the drive is to go more agile and of course AI tries things faster and faster, how do you balance that against, again, the planning, programming, budgeting, execution system, because that's a two plus years out where you've got to budget or plan for that funding for those programs.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Yeah, I'm going to skip Mike and ask Dave to talk a little bit about that, because that's one of his roles as a CTO is to kind of shepherd things through the acquisition process, and so we've done a lot of great things in that area, because we have now some leaders that understand iterative development and modernize software delivery. And so, dave, if you could take a shot at that one.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

Yeah, absolutely. First and foremost, late last year, eric Heisen published the FY25 to 28 IT strategic plan. There's, you know, most of us have had our equities included there 24. 24 to 28? Okay, you're in FY24, which means we're already starting to do it, and you know there's a section there related to IT modernization. And so if you're sort of curious about what the big picture plan is, or strategy for DHS, that's literally the leaders are moving towards that plan.

David Larrimore, Chief Technology Officer:

One of the number one sort of lessons learned that we've had in our evolutions of AI is that AI is ultimately information technology, and if an organization does not have a mature IT delivery practice, they will ultimately struggle with delivery of AI and machine learning. So a lot of what we're really trying to do here is, as we are identifying opportunities for AI, we're also identifying opportunities for moving forward with that plan for IT modernization, moving towards enterprise services, bringing in experienced IT delivery, federal resources, moving away from Big Bang and having more agile iterative delivery, leveraging SecDevOps and partnership with customer experience to ensure that what we're delivering is actually providing the results we intend. And AI is no different there, right? So good IT, be a strong IT delivery organization, and that will ultimately be the foundation for anything. Ai.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

I think a lot of people are conditioned in Congress and in the acquisition community to kind of understanding milestones and they don't really like the idea of unlimited scope and things like that. And so you know, if you show them a couple times on, this is what iterative software delivery really is, it's not about unlimited scope. Then we're seeing some really good response from that Rache. I don't know if you wanted to add a little bit from your perspective, from an STD perspective, yep, yep, and I'll pull on CBP a little bit because I perspective from an STD perspective.

Michael Weissman, Chief Data Officer:

Yep, yep.

Reshea Deloatch, Executive Director, Solutions Development Directorate:

And I'll pull on CBP a little bit because I had a long time there as well. But iterative development you would think that it would be more commonplace by now, but it still isn't, and I don't know if that's more indicative of just the vendor community, industry and the ability to actually, when it comes to software that is a bit more custom or custom configured, the ability to at least have functionality released in iterations, and I just think that we struggle with that a bit. I've seen that with more custom developed apps where there's a little bit more flexibility, but we've come a long road from Java apps and those types of things. We're more SaaS than anything, so I'm hoping that AI and other measures like that and tools will help us release solutions in a more iterative manner, but I do really think that we need industry's help with that.

Guest:

Great Tom Just one to tie together. All of us in industry would appreciate your help. We know you've been through the CR 11 of the last 14 years, so you've gotten that drill down pretty well. You know how to sustain the O&M, keep the projects going that you really keep the lights on. The thing that would help us in industry is just knowing that you've got an election year and then an inaugural year and things are a little bumpy and you might get a CR in January. You might get it in April.

Guest:

One that helps us is we plan our bid and proposal money, b and P money the sooner that you get that budget. If you also review your APFS of what you're going to be putting out especially if it's in the DME, the new project money or targets, ai, anything like that If you reprogram your APFS, update it, clean it up, that will help all of us in industry prepare to compete and bid for those projects that you really need. And if the APFS stays old through an inaugural year, we struggle. It's hard for us to convince our leadership of what to bid and what's a priority unless we work together through this. So that's the ask is clean it up as soon as you get through the CR. Look ahead and it will help all of us work better together.

Chris Granger, Executive Director, IT Operations:

Great.

Rear Admiral Christopher Bartz:

Now, thanks for that feedback. We appreciate that we like it.