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Countering Illicit Networks: The Fight Against Fentanyl, Cargo Threats, and Transnational Crime - Part 2

• Homeland Security & Defense Forum

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Countering illicit networks involves leveraging advanced analytics, intelligence-sharing, and technology to combat the trafficking of fentanyl, secure cargo from threats, and disrupt transnational criminal activities. 

This episode explores the dynamic intersection of technology and collaboration in enhancing homeland security. With a focus on AI, data management, and public-private partnerships, the discussion emphasizes the importance of actionable insights in addressing complex threats.

  • Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP 
  • Ricardo Mayoral, Assistant Director, International Operations, Homeland Security Investigations 
  • Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations 
  • Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT
  • Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator)

This discussion took place at the HSDF’s Border Security Symposium on December 11th, 2024 

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• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

We've heard a lot about the threat. We've heard a lot about the challenges, but we also know there's not only a room full of people. There's a city full of people that are looking to help the government with those threats. Can you talk to us at a high level? What are some of the tools and opportunities that we have to partner on?

• Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT:

Thank you to HSDF on the invitation to participate and thank you Brenda. She used to keep me out of trouble back when I was a young Border Patrol agent when I was at headquarters, but I appreciate the opportunity to be here. I look at three main thrusts. Mainly, it's intelligence, analysis, data and situational awareness. I think that, especially when you're talking about CBP the data, how we develop software, how we support Gen AI and being able to responsibly as Steve mentioned put that together so we only push out the data in certain form factors to the organizations that need it. You know HSI, you know if it's the NTC or if you know part of that biometric triad pushing it to DOD or the IC, being able to utilize that form factor of data without violating privacy and so they can make their decisions.

• Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT:

The other thing I'd like to stress is the situational awareness through the use of surveillance. You know being able to protect the. You know last I knew it was 5,000 linear land miles of border out there. How do you surveil that? How do you push the border out? These are all themes that Chief Aguilar and the crew will be very familiar with, but that's still a threat the infrastructure to be able to communicate securely. And then finally, next generation stuff, post-quantum, and all those sorts of things. How do we deal with that animal as it approaches us in the very near future?

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

That's a great overview and, I think, a lot of opportunity in those various areas, but you've laid them out quite nicely. Thank you very much. So, ricardo, I'm going to turn to you next and ask you about your. What tools and opportunities do you see with the different threats that you've walked us through?

• Ricardo Mayoral, Assistant Director, International Operations, Homeland Security Investigations :

So thank you for the question. The opportunities that I see are you know we have to do better as an investigative agency. Like I mentioned before, how do we go about analyzing and using technology? There's cameras everywhere, everybody's on their phones constantly. How do we manage all that data? How are we going to only technology, ai doing analysis? But how can we make it succinct enough or to process the data in such a way that is comprehensive and easy to understand for investigators? You got to understand. I mean, I'm an experienced investigator.

• Ricardo Mayoral, Assistant Director, International Operations, Homeland Security Investigations :

Selwyn, all of us are right, we've been in this field for a long time, but we're not techies. We're not necessarily savvy on technology. So one of the challenges that I have seen is how do you convert that analytical, all those analytical tools, and make it in a way that can translate and make sense not only to us investigators but the prosecutors, because the prosecutors are lawyers. That doesn't necessarily make them techies either, right? So how do you process that data in a comprehensive way that we can actually use and present to a jury of our peers? And that has been the biggest challenge that we, one of the biggest challenges that we face.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

I think that is a very concise requirement. User requirement is how do you present a very complex issue with very complex data and usually a lot of entities within the problem you're trying to solve? How do you present that in a simple way that makes sense not only to the investigator but also to those that have to take action further up the chain? Thank you, steve. What tools are you looking for?

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

in your world.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

Well, I mean, we do manage a massive amount of data at the National Targeting Center.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

We leverage that very effectively to target bad actors, to perform screening and vetting to ensure that, for instance, air cargo is safe.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

And you know, we have, you know, the air cargo advanced screening program with data elements. We've worked very closely with industry in the past few months expanding the data elements that we're collecting. That we're collecting, you know, and so it would be helpful, I think, sometimes for industry to work, you know, with our industry partners in the express consignment world to better, to be able to better deliver that data to CBP in a way that's efficient and effective, because what that allows us to do is more surgically target the threat. The more data that we have and able to leverage that data, the better able we are to target. That allows commerce to move freely, that allows people to move quickly, and so opportunities and I made mention of this with generative AI is to leverage that responsibly. I mean, dhs is leading this effort across our components, I think, where we need to work together, and we need to work together, as I mentioned earlier, at the earliest point possible so that the solutions work, if you will.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

And that's why I really do. I see this to ask you and then Pat, to talk a little bit about the critical partnerships that really matter in trying to solve this issue that we have, obviously with CDP and other federal partners.

• Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations :

One agency can't solve all these issues that we deal with. It's a combined effort from the US government, whole government approach, the partnerships with our private industry, folks working hand in hand with them, developing these tools that we were talking about that can address some of our problem sets that we have in our mission space and we are actually doing that now. We have several projects and I'm sure probably some of you vendors here now that are in the room that we're working with but to collaborate together and kind of working across instead of worrying about bottom lines and everything else but looking to really protect the American people and ensure public safety. And in credit to some of those vendors, they've come together and worked through some of the difficulties and you know in their business models to kind of work with government to do that. So that's what I see.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

I love that because I mean, we know these are complex challenges and there's not a single bullet solution, right, there's not a single bullet solution, right? So, whether it's a capability that has to be joined to another capability, whether it's an area of expertise, and it's not just about the technology, right, it's about the program management, it's about the collaboration with the business community that don't provide tools, but they do have expertise and information, and so I like the vision you've projected for solving a complex problem with a network of partnerships. Pat, how do you work within that partnership network?

• Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT:

Good question. We perform across the government a lot of different places, but one of the ones I want to highlight and I talked to you about this earlier today was the OSIDF task force. That's a good example where integrators and companies participate and provide information to those that really need it in various different form factors. The IC back to CBP. Cbp pushes tons of data to OSEDA tons, and being able to support the organizations from an analytical standpoint to keep them left to boom as much as possible, I think that's a really, really important form factor, especially when you're battling the fentanyl crisis and trade. How do you secure that flow of whatever you have coming into this country in a way that you know what's coming before it even gets there? Econify the process.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

I think we've heard that a couple times today that really, if you figure out your problem when it's at the border, you have lost. You've got to figure it out before, and for that you need not only the data and the expertise, but you need the engagement of importers, exporters, customs brokers, freight forwarders, as well as these tools that give you the visibility into what's happening as it's coming at us or even before that, even before that. So let me ask you we've just got maybe time for one more panel question, and then we're going to turn to you all for questions. Steve, what is the top thing on your wish list? If you could be king for the day and purchase, develop, evolve, get one thing, what would it be?

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

There's many things I want, I think, for me and I hate to keep hammering this home but in that generative AI space, because I use a lot of personnel to, for instance, distill what the threat is we're facing and the threat is different throughout the country as well and then delivering that threat information to our frontline officers and agents who are making the difference, and I think we very effectively leverage machine learning in CBP and in our targeting efforts. But I do think there's great opportunity to use generative AI to distill down much of this data that we have and I'm not just talking about unique pieces of data, I'm talking about documented inspections that we've done, et cetera, et cetera, and our ability to distill that down to proactively identify TTPs that may not just be in one location but apply to many locations. So I would say that's probably my highest on my wishlist, and then the corollary of that wishlist is that the procurement process were a little bit quicker and easier to get there.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

Ricardo, what's the number one thing on your wish list?

• Ricardo Mayoral, Assistant Director, International Operations, Homeland Security Investigations :

AI, for sure. Machine learning, more data analytical tools and more personnel. Oh, that's more.

• Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations :

That's too many.

• Ricardo Mayoral, Assistant Director, International Operations, Homeland Security Investigations :

It's my personal opinion, right, we cannot be overly reliant on AI and machine learning. You still need that investigator out there to go through the data. A lot of times I've seen how data criminal analysts that have not interviewed, let's say, a subject of an investigation go just by what they're reading on the report of investigation and then they conclude that this person had nothing to do. But if you ask the investigator who actually did the interview, yeah, they put that the guy is denying everything. But they know either by the way they look, he acted, he reacted the quick questions that the person was certainly involved in what was being investigated. So AI, machine learning, but we need also people. We cannot overly rely on data and AI.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

Diane Sabatino earlier today talked about keeping that human in the loop, and I think that's a priority across the board. Selwyn, it's almost Christmas.

• Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations :

Yeah, so I was a customs inspector for six years, so I I know what CBP goes through inspecting a lot of cargo coming into the country. We've seen how how fragile the supply chain is from COVID and dealing with that whole thing. I think developing a tool that could and again, no disrespect to the tools we already have, but I personally think we need better tools to identify when we have cargo that may be compromised or have things in them that shouldn't be in there, right, I think we need a little bit more better technology in that front. It's a needle in a haystack, and so any tool that gives us that next advantage I think I would be invested in.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

Great, Pat. If you could give one tool to our colleagues, what would it be?

• Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT:

Something that's solutioned at an affordable price, that delivers the information that they need as quickly as they need, and I make a good profit.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

That's fair. That's fair. That's fair, yeah, because we I mean in this space, whichever side, whether you're private sector, public sector, there's never enough time, there's never enough resources and we need those solutions, that kind of balance, all those things so excellent solutions are in this room.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

I mean, I think you know, yes, we serve in government and you know we take an oath and we take it seriously and we're committed to the mission.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

But I want to thank all of you too, because some of the brightest minds with the solutions are sitting right in front of me and it's not like we can do it without you. So you are just as part of you, are just as much a part of that mission and I'm certainly grateful to you, not only as the executive director of the National Tarding Center, but as a husband and a dad, and the work that you do. I mean it's in your name, you know, as far as this forum and symposium, and so you care about homeland security and homeland defense, and I'm grateful to you, you know, on that level and just want to thank all of you for not only the work that you've done up to this point, but that, the work that you'll continue to do and, ideally, the work that you know we'll be able to do together to ensure that kids aren't dying from, you know, fentanyl poisoning and and and that we're we're tackling trend to Irogua, and you know I mean that it's it's key's key, but it's a partnership with you all.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

Well, I think that's very well said and great recognition of the importance of the partnership between the government and the private sector. So with that we're going to turn to you and I know you're hungry and we're getting very close to lunch, but if you have a question or two, I see a hand in the back Familiar face back there, mr Mullen.

Audience:

Thanks very much. I'm Mike Mullen. I'm the executive director of the Express.

• Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations :

Association of America that represents DHL and.

Audience:

FedEx at UPS and full transparency. I worked for several years at CBP. I was the assistant commissioner for international affairs. I had some terrific employees there. Cbp is a great organization. But I wanted to say how much I appreciated that Steve Maloney's comments about partnership, because we take our partnership with CBP extremely seriously. You mentioned the increase of the ACAS data. The number of data elements tripled.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

Yes.

Audience:

And we were providing all of that information within one week after the requirement was identified. This summer, we screen 100% of what goes on our airplanes, so it's that partnership with you. That is really important to us to complete our operations successfully and also comply with your mission. But the one question I wanted to ask was I was a little surprised there was no mention of the post office today. Could you say anything about how you're enforcing all these requirements on postal shipments?

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

Yeah, so the mail environment is a challenge and I appreciate the partnership because certainly with the express consignment with DHL, fedex and UPS and UPS, you know, with ACAS, we are able to action. You know those items. For instance, if we get a suspicious shipment in ACAS, you know we work directly within hours the partner, the partnership, you know to mitigate what we, you know, might deem as a problem with that. You know mail is a bigger challenge, right, and so we have been working closely in a working group, working with the United Postal Union and the foreign postal carriers to to protect that supply chain as well. But you know to your point, you know the evolution, you know of the groups that you represent is far more advanced at this point.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

But it's certainly the goal you know of CBP and our partner agencies in DHS to work closely with not only the US Postal Service but our foreign postal carriers to ensure that same security. And we are doing that as well. But it's again that sort of operating at the speed of mission and I'm grateful to you and I do hope that in that additional data sets that we have been as transparent as possible from CBP's perspective. I know initially we were having daily calls, weekly calls, and trying to be as responsive to you all that we could to ensure and we're committed to that in CBP that transparency of effort with industry.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

And I want to say, as a participant in that process as well, that CBP has really raised the bar, I think, in terms of the transparency and the private sector partnership which makes your job easier. We hope, yeah. Time for one last question. I see a hand back here in the middle.

Speaker 7:

Thank you so much for the time. So with recent incidents in supply chain interruption, like what we saw happen with Israel and explosives in their pagers and apparent Russia with incendiary devices in an aircraft for cargo, has that changed your policies or framework in the way that you guys are operating with either other agencies overseas or stuff internally here?

• Pat Flynn, Director of Business Development, GDIT:

Thank you, I think, that's directed at me again.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

I mean I think as a whole. I mean we can take ACAS as an example, right? Acas was born out of the 2010 ink cartridge plot and it's really a bomb in a box scenario, right? So we collect data elements to ensure that we know what's getting on those aircrafts prior to and then working closely with our partners in express consignment to mitigate any of that threat. Given the events around the world, cvp remains as agile as possible and does consistently look at. You know our requirements, you know our compliance efforts, even with forced labor and anti-dumping. You know, and just out of good practices to say, do we need to leverage more? And the leverage more is, again, it's not to be burdensome, right? And I think the more information that we are able to get, the more visibility that we have, the more surgically then we are able to target.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

But we're in a high threat environment. I mean that's where I started and that keeps me up at night. I mean I look terrible, probably because I've been up since four o'clock this morning, worried about not only speaking to you all today, but multiple other threats. But we're constantly pivoting daily and I really give credit to our Office of Information Technology in US Customs and Border Protection, because I think they're the best in the business, I think they're the best in government and I know I'm biased in saying that, but I truly believe that because they are able to pivot quickly internally and make adjustments for us. But again, we need the private sector's help in in doing that and continuing to do that, because the threat is going to continue to evolve and it's going to get more sophisticated. You know, and and you know, I don't think you know two years ago we would foresee even Iran and Israel bombing each other's locations.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

I think you have raised a really important point to end on, and you talked about operating at the speed of mission, but I think an aspect in many of the solutions that we hope our audience can help us with is that the change that we are all managing whether it is a change in the threat and the associated response or a new policy priority. I spent a lot of time in the world of tariffs and many of us have seen that tariffs is likely to be the word of 2025. We expect tremendous change. If the past is any indicator of what the next four years are likely to be like, we all have to be prepared to pivot you use that word on a dime very quickly. Pivot you use that word on a dime very quickly.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

One of the key questions that I get is how fast can CBP implement? And we saw with ACAS it took two days, and that's typically what I say when people ask me about new tariffs or new trade policy changes. How fast can CBP implement? And when I was there four years ago, it was two to three days. My guess is they're faster now.

• Stephen Maloney, Executive Director, National Targeting Center, CBP :

It is, and we don't let sort of perfect be the enemy of good, and we will implement and we're not arrogant enough to say that our first know, our first solution, you know, always works and we make adjustments. We do in our partnership, you know, with industry and the express consignment couriers. We listen to the feedback and we make, you know, adjustments accordingly. And so I mean it goes back to partnership.

• Brenda Smith, former EAC for Trade, CBP (moderator):

And, I think, good context as we work on solutions together. So I want to thank the panel, I want to thank you all. Appreciate your time, your interest and your questions and with that we'll be sure to get going.

• Selwyn Smith, Deputy Assistant Director, Public Safety and Border Security Division, Homeland Security Investigations :

Thank you. Good job, thank you.