HSDF THE PODCAST

Enhanced Situational Awareness for Improved Mission Outcomes Part 2

• Homeland Security & Defense Forum

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Welcome to “HSDF THE PODCAST,” a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum

 Our panel discusses constraints and what it really takes to scale. Hiring thousands more agents is unlikely, so leadership is aiming to make each person ten times more productive through interoperable systems and better data. That demands a common language—not by forcing one lexicon, but by modeling entities and relationships with ontologies so every agency keeps its dialect while the system resolves meaning. The result is clarity across boundaries and a foundation for analytics that actually help on the edge.

 Featuring:

 This discussion took place December 12, 2025 at 8th Annual Homeland Security & Defense Forum Border Security Symposium

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Framing Common Language And Intent

SPEAKER_05

Ryan's brought up a point that um what I was it was resonating with me on it doesn't matter what we call situational awareness, domain awareness, and things like that. But I I think the importance of understanding what we're talking about and a common language in a group of people that we are all in right now is important to define those things to us, regardless what the adversary thinks of those things, because that's what we're here doing. We're communicating our requirements. And if we're all, again, the whole idea is we we want to be able to use common terms so that when we talk about what situational awareness is, you guys understand that we're talking about things technology and service systems and things like that that address that. And you know, the domain or the longer term type situations. So while tactically they don't necessarily matter because the stuff's going on and we're responding to it daily, right? It's just it's part of what we do. And you know, when when the gunfire happens, we all rush to it. Um, but I want to make sure, and this is part of kind of the theme of of what I was trying to share in the beginning, is making sure that we all understand um what precisely we're trying to share with you and that that we all get used to. And you and I appreciate the fact that you're saying this is what's gonna, these this is what you're gonna hear in 26 and 27, um, so that you can be prepared and we can all um use the Scooby-Doo decipher uh rings in the back uh so that we can get ready for uh for what that means to us all. Because that common language is important, and like I said, it's it's um making sure that when we when when they say something that you hear it through the same, you know, you know, with the same intentions. So uh I appreciate that. And thanks for sharing the the the future terms as well. Pat, back to you. Do you need to read it again? That was a while ago.

SPEAKER_00

You know, one of the things I think about a lot and recently, uh one of our vice presidents, Mike Wagner and I were up in in uh Bellingham, Washington, and we were running around with HSDF up there. But one of the things that was made uh very, very present to me is the complex nature of the maritime um picture up there, the the commercial craft is our one thing, the large movers, the robo ships, the tankers and stuff like that, and the and the Coast Guard operations in the uh the Puget Sound. But what was immensely obvious and complex was the uh private craft, the the recreational craft, which amounts in some cases thousands of boats running back around. And one of the things that uh they they really, really uh need a better handle on is you know, being able to track that, being able to analyze it, being able to eventually detect or uh understand where it came from, where it was detected, and where potentially it would go. The second thing is how do you how do you jointly prosecute that contact with your Coast Guard brothers and sisters, with DEA, with FBI, with Mexican government, with the Canadian government, you know, and especially the RCMP. They're on the boats with the Coast Guard currently working through all that traffic. How do you understand that picture? How do you create the overlap overlays to where you can all work off the same system? One of the things, you know, over the next couple of years, hopefully that we can get a better um uh support mechanism there through industry interface and and working with uh the resources involved is being able to put together a system that can accurately detect and share that information on on a large scale. Uh it it is it's not gonna get better, it's gonna get worse, and and and and the data, the data flow, being able to understand that and share it in the appropriate manner is gonna be preeminent. And we, you know, they try, you know, but it needs to be done more efficiently, but it needs to be re resourced at the appropriate levels.

Multi‑Agency Coordination And Data Sharing

Evolving Threats And Productivity At Scale

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah, good, thank you. Um so Ryan, I'll start with you on this one. So as the threat evolves, and again, in I guess all four of those categories that I mentioned, the the surface, subsurface, air, cyber data and signals, um how is how's border patrol leadership, CBP leadership staying ahead of that? And do you feel well it's just kind of throwing them down, but do you feel that leadership supports those requirements and understands? And then is there is there anything that we need to do to help uh secure that understanding?

Ontologies And The Buffalo Example

SPEAKER_01

I certainly think leadership supports anything that helps contribute to what I would call time back to mission or productivity. Uh try as we might. I'm I think it's gonna be very difficult to hire uh 10,000 officers, agents, or whomever. Staffing's a problem. We have to make every agent, officer, or pilot 10 times more productive. And you're only going to do that by that interdisciplinary approach to modeling data, making sense of it, and being able to transmit it at scale. But that crosses authorities, boundaries, cultures. I don't know if there is a common language because I mean, it's so hard to use English and then try to use English to label data about things we care about. There's too many different words for the same thing, too many different definitions for the same word. Every agency gets to choose its own lexicon. An example I've used in the past, I could say something, Chief, that you're gonna think sounds silly. Uh, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. And that is the that sentence is both a homonym and a homophone and is actually a legitimate sentence. You can Google it. Now, how would you explain that to a computer? What if you didn't know any of that? Now, if I give you more context, or maybe if you had the right context, you would know I was talking about uh an intimidating buffalo that was intimidating other intimidating buffaloes from the city of Buffalo with common language. So that's where I became. You know, nobody joins the Borel because they want to be a philosopher or knowledge engineer, but because you know, we were too uh stubborn to not try and too dumb not to know we couldn't do it, just accidentally figured out that. You have to model data precisely using a formal standard like ontology, get with smart people to do the mappings, the network engineers to connect things, uh, the bosses to support the acquisition, and then the smart companies to work together in multiple domains as industry and disciplines across the physical domains, and then get it to the different mission domains in real time. Gosh.

SPEAKER_03

It's the best answer I've ever heard to any question in my life.

SPEAKER_01

Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. Are you a tape fan? Am I I I who isn't?

SPEAKER_05

No. All right. So uh I'll just go down the line then. Pat, um, how how do you uh how similar question or same question, but you know, as as far as industry. Kind of the future state.

Communications Infrastructure Gaps

SPEAKER_00

I yeah, let me uh let me bring up something that that's critically important and and and needs address probably in the near term, is communications infrastructure. Um, you know, I I I've I've been in Rio Gran Valley, McAllen recently, and no galas, and and been up north. And what continues to be an issue, and you heard the B2 up here earlier talking about it, is the communication infrastructure is not adequate. Um, and it's dynamic. The train is very, very, very harsh in some cases, up and down and undulating, but the communications infrastructure and how how we support it, how we deploy it, uh, is not adequate. And and and some tapes it's dangerous on on what where the the agents and officers tend to need to go to interdict. Uh, I I think uh the proper attention needs to be focused there. I think industry is more than capable of of address addressing that. But still to this day, you know, you're still taking your radio out and holding it above your head and making those calls. And those devices, the the those TAC devices are awesome, by the way. Um I wish I I had that back in the day. But they uh it it it still needs to communicate, it needs that backhaul. Um and I I think if we were to fix anything CBP specific, um, and think about Rescue 21 over there and the communications issues on on that program also um is very important. If I could fix anything, I would fix that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's safety. That's huge. Um, you know, whether you're you're out in the field, um, but that that connection back to command, back to you know, folks that are gonna respond to you when you're in need. Believe us, we're all we've all been there. It's it's uh never good to not get an answer back on that call for help. So so Admiral, how about uh how is Coast Guards uh preparing for the adversaries? Uh and I think it was mentioned earlier on one of the panels, but they're evolving at a at a pace. They don't have the policy and the restrictions and unfettered funding. And um, you know, they're they're much more capable of adapting at a at a pace, you know, that that we struggle with, and not because we want to struggle, it's because it's the government. But um, yeah.

Coast Guard Agility And Rapid Acquisition

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, I appreciate the vote of confidence. And I think um in the past I might have pushed back and and said, hey, you know, pump the brakes. We really we have trouble defining requirements and and making decisions about uh uh acquisitions and fueling capability. But um our commandant has made it clear that it is his priority to transform our Coast Guard so that we really can um enable an agile, capable, ready workforce and ready for what? Ready for everything. Um we certainly are talking about um you know what a future contingency might look like and to ensure that we have communications in a denied degraded um intermittent or limited environment. We really haven't conceived of those possibilities, not during my career. I mean, we certainly um were limited in many, many ways, but that's because we were limited by our imaginations of what we needed on ships and aircraft. Um, this is a very, very different thing. Um, so we really are orienting the entire acquisition workforce toward generating speed to outcome in a way that I've just have have never seen before. And that's not to say we're undermining, you know, acquisit acquisition law or requirements or policy or being irresponsible in any way. That's not your Coast Guard, and everyone in here knows it. Um, it does mean we're being purposeful and responsive in in a way that's achieving results. Just a few weeks ago, uh my current role is uh as a senior advisor to the Commonon on multiple different issues, and I identified a need for top secret communication gear uh in multiple places around the Coast Guard. And uh we have a new team, they're called Raptor. And I don't remember what Raptor stands for, they really do have a bird on their symbol, so that's how I know where they are in the building, but um, it really is a uh a crew of senior leaders who were put together just to rapidly develop, procure, and deploy capability to the field. And it was, I am not kidding, 72 hours between from the time I told them what I needed, where to get it and how it cost, how much it would cost. Um, between that moment and my staff working with them, and the money request and relationships with um folks in in the intelligence community to get that gear, it was 72 hours. That is neck-breaking speed for the federal government writ large, but certainly for a military force in the United States Coast Guard. Absolutely appropriate deployment of those personnel and and financial resources to get leaders what they've needed, I don't know, for a couple of decades. Right? That's that's where we are as a service. I have I have never seen a senior leadership team, and I have the great benefit of being part of it. Uh, I've never seen a senior leadership team better galvanized toward an outcome than who we are today as a service. And we are galvanized around this Force Design 28 plan, and that that includes uh the digital uh revolution that that I described earlier in our acquisition reform.

Returning To Comms As Safety Imperative

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Can I piggyback? Uh just one other thing, and just uh to pile on to my communications um uh uh input earlier. The situational awareness, the domain awareness, the the maritime, yeah, the MDA problems, lots of data, right? That communications infrastructure, it's got to ride on it. So, and and and it really, really needs to be fixed. And like Mike Wagner says in the back of the room, I'm gonna foot stomp that real hard. Yeah, because that that that really needs to be addressed in the near term.

Leadership, Generations, And Change

Audience Q&A: Top Unsolved Problems

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Well, thank you. And I I think we've all seen you know, an evolution and our leadership and understanding of why this is so important. And um, it's it's tragedy that that um really does translate that into action. And in order for us to stay ahead of it, we've seen our uh, you know, all of the leaders uh recognize that fact. It's hard. Um, you know, we talk about generations of people and how do we communicate with Gen, you know, Z and Gen, you know, millennials and all those different generations. Um, but but stopping and and recognizing the fact that there are subtle differences, that you know, we there's a lot to learn from each other, a lot to learn from the different generations, and that we've seen our leaders grow from that. And it's just part of self-awareness. And um I'm glad to see that or hear that the Commandant and I know that the commissioner, um, Commissioner Scott has taken um tremendous um strides in consolidating offices and ensuring that um the the best comes from uh efficiency and effectiveness. So it's it's it's a good thing to see. Um so I would like to open it up to any questions. Um I am not buying the first rounds, if that's the first question, but um uh is there anybody that uh has any questions for the panel? Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_04

Angelique Irvin again. I have a quick question and I'd love to hear from each of you. What is the number one problem that's unsolved? What is your number one problem that's unsolved that you would like to see solved in 2026? Especially if it relates to ISR.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we um we do not have an integrated system of fixed terrestrial, um crude and uncrude surface, subsurface uh and uh uh aviation uh ISR platforms combined with commercial or government space-based uh ISR platforms that give us a cogent, complete, persistent domain awareness in the way that anyone would expect is rational or acceptable. Uh we need those things, and I talked about petting those things out, right? The ability to process, evaluate, disseminate, and visualize those data feeds for our commanders and and alongside an open architecture that allows us to iterate the the currency of of that technology.

SPEAKER_00

What she said with the communications infrastructure. Okay, but I don't know if you've solved that in 26. Yeah, yeah. But we're talking multiple years, but that's a pretty complex ask. And we can get there. We did that it's gonna be uh a 10-year process at least. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_01

Would you like the caveman answer or the egghead answer?

unknown

I like all your answers.

SPEAKER_00

I do too. You got a fan.

Data Provenance And AI Readiness

SPEAKER_01

Uh I mean, the biggest problem is still obvious. I there's folks that say the cure for cancer is in our data. I mean, we are data rich and analysis poor. I think CBP probably has more data than every other law enforcement agency in the world combined. And so the problem is how do you structure or provide loosely coupled standards and processes so everybody can talk the way they talk, but they resolve to uh a universal standard of entities and what they are. I guess that was nerdy. If you want the next level nerdy, what really problem is we have is we need what's called an extensible bill of materials, basically a driver's license for every data that tracks your data from when it's born, its origination, to where it goes, so that you know the quality and and provenance of it in near real time. So when then when it's acted upon and goes through the systems and you want to make decisions, until we have that, I would maybe this will never be a buzzword, but it's called paradata or parametric telemetry data. That probably that problem gets solved, you will be that whoever country that solves that problem first will achieve knowledge supremacy at speed and scale and win the AI war. So that's my opinion on that.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Anyone else? We lost half the room.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I don't blame them. They're lined up. Yeah. But can I say something real quick? You know, I'm a I'm a father of a daughter. She's getting married May 9th.

SPEAKER_03

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, thank you, thank you. But that's not why I say that. And I hope you don't mind I say this, but I want to. Is the Admiral's gonna be a she's she's she's gonna be a three-star soon. And uh and guess what, guess what?

SPEAKER_03

So that's the funny confirmation.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, but but she's you know, you you you don't see that very often, and she's a mom. And she's she she has small ones, and and she she's done it on both sides. And and and uh when she told me that in the in the ready room, it made gave me some information or of some um motivation that you can do it. And uh you should be very proud of that, and thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Was there a question in the back room or yes, hi, thank you.

Q&A: Coast Guard C5 Strategy

SPEAKER_02

Um Nadia Mon from CBP. Excuse me, Admiral, could you speak to the history of your C5R efforts that have recently started in the Coast Guard?

Closing Thanks And Takeaways

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, thank you so so much for the question. Um, you know, I I think like many agencies in in government, our historic approach uh to you know to our C5 systems has uh has been like building the monster, right? And all of a sudden you wonder how you have Frankenstein. Um we uh We've gone through multiple transformations or strategies over the last decade or so. But beginning with the issuance of our force design 28 strategic plan and the implementation plan that followed in the spring to summertime. You'll forgive me, I don't know the dates I was operating. But that really solidified the approach, the requirements, and the enabling functions that we know we need to enable our workforce. I'm pretty sure that those uh those strategic documents are available. Um but then we did the thing you always need to do um when you have a need for rapid transformation. We hired like the smartest guy in the Coast Guard to lead it. His name's John Hickey. Uh he's a two-star like me. He just left command of our Great Lakes district. Um and as usual with Rear Armoral Hickey, he is moving at a breakneck speed and has surrounded himself with just the greatest minds in the Coast Guard uh who understand operations, who understand technology, communication, need, requirements, uh, and fiscal policy to get after it and get after it quick. So I'm not sure if that's a great answer, but John Hickey is my answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

All right. I think that anybody else? I think that about brings us to our time. Um I really appreciate this conversation. Um, I think this helped um kind of um uh help bridge some of those layers of of uh you know what what things mean to us, what things mean to them, and and how industry can support that. So and you all thank you for the ones that stayed here to listen to that. It's really means a lot to us because talking to an empty room would have been funny. Um, but anyways, the panel, I respect you all. Thank you very much for uh for everything that you uh you provided for us today. And and uh thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you, David. Thanks for including us. Let's give this uh panel a big round of applause. That's great.