HSDF THE PODCAST

Enabling the Frontline: Acquisition, Enterprise Support, and Operational Needs Part 2

• Homeland Security & Defense Forum

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 22:10

Welcome to “HSDF THE PODCAST,” a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum

 What does it take to bring biometrics, non intrusive inspection tech, and AI to 328 ports of entry, hundreds of facilities, and far flung checkpoints you don’t even own? We pull back the curtain on modernization that works in the field, not just on slides, and share how we balance speed, safety, and accountability when the mission changes by the hour.

 Featuring:

  • Ntina Cooper, Executive Assistant Commissioner, Enterprise Services, CBP 
  • Jody Hardin, Executive Director, Innovation and Strategy Directorate, Office of Field Operations, CBP
  • Earl Lewis, Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Office of Acquisition, CBP
  • Ryan Scudder, Former EAC for Enterprise Services, CBP (moderator)

This discussion took place December 12, 2025 at 8th Annual Homeland Security & Defense Forum Border Security Symposium

Follow HSDF THE PODCAST and never miss latest insider talk on government technology, innovation, and security. Visit the HSDF YouTube channel to view hours of insightful policy discussion. For more information about the Homeland Security & Defense Forum (HSDF), visit hsdf.org.

SPEAKER_02:

And I'm so glad you brought up the soul sourcing versus the competitive and all that. I get that question so often all that, and like we can just solve their problem. And C V P we're just soul sources.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh sorry.

SPEAKER_02:

And so I get that all the time. But you understand, and I explained that there's a lot of you know, we have to do compet well, we have to C VP has to do competitive a certain amount of it. So I'm glad you brought that up. It's important. So Jody. So I you know, the obviously the challenges of you kind of spoke to it between the infrastructure bringing in new NII into old infrastructure, all the computer. Could you speak some about those operational challenges of what you're doing with the biometrics and NII and how it relates, especially like facilities? I mean, that's a that's a big deal. You can't just go plug and play. So if you can speak to that some.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, our I think our um biggest um operational challenge we have out there is that um is kind of fitting the technology into existing um infrastructure that's out there. Um we will see a lot of great examples of technologies and and and even things that are done in another country. And I've had that where somebody goes, look what we're able to do. We've got this all interconnected, everything's you know in this infrastructure that that fits, and they've got full communication and full visibility and everything. But when we're trying to do that, um, say even so just from an um opera OFO kind of perspective, we're operating at 328 ports of entry, over 600 facilities. That's where we have facilities. In addition to that, we've got remote areas we go out to. We do inspections on vessels, we do inspections in warehouses that don't belong to us. We're um we don't own this property in many cases. It's like free space, so we don't have the ability to build out things that we need to do with that. So anything that we're doing in getting technology out there has to be flexible. Um, you you heard our deputy speak about it earlier. Like it's got to be able to fit into that infrastructure. It needs to be something that um we can't have, you know, large pieces of technology everywhere. We have to be able to tailor it to every single operational use case that's out there. So it's not just a single thing of going, I want to just biometrically confirm, you know, this person and be able to do that. And these are cameras and systems that can do that. We have to do that in so many varying environments that impact how that is captured and done and what types of devices we can use. And we have to do it in real time. And that's even harder. Is um you get down there and in a remote area, like even at some of our ports of entry, I can go out there um to go see things. And we've got everything networked as much as we can for the operational purposes. And my boss calls me from headquarters and I can't get any connectivity on my phone to answer her. And there's no Wi-Fi and there's no ability to do this. So even with mobile things and the ability to be able to get those flexibilities, those challenges are something that we have to overcome across the board. Um, in addition to that, I think kind of going back to what Earl was saying again, everything that we're doing, we want to do at a quick pace. Um, we get this infusion of money and we know that there's great technology that's out there, but nothing we can do can go out there if we haven't tested it and proven it. And and in the operation, that it's going to work. There's a lot of great technology that we know is out there. We get it in the operation, it completely fails. Whether that's for the operators not um, you know, accepting it as part of the process of what they do in a law enforcement mission, or whether it is all of these infrastructure issues, you know, we have to be able to get ahead of that. Um, we work a lot in the innovation realm with our partners in ST, with our invent teams to try to test things out as far in advance as we can. As soon as we hear about a new technology, we want to try to field it and go, is this something that's actually gonna work? Um, when we get this big infusion of money and we we see like, oh, AI can do this, AI can do this. The first question I get asked if I go to make an investment in this is what's the results gonna be? And if I can't quantify, answer, and prove that out pretty darn quick, I'm gonna lose all the confidence of anybody that's given me money to do that in the future. So it's important that we maintain, again, that accountability, that um, you know, proven technologies, and we have to show operational impacts when we're looking at this stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And thanks for bringing up AI. It kind of sets up well for as anybody that knows Dina Cooper, she's very knowledgeable on so many different things. Um, Enterprise Services also has the Office of Information and Technology, and Dina also served as our first chief AI officer.

SPEAKER_04:

So let's not as we highlight that. And and her Josh Powell now, you're doing much better.

SPEAKER_02:

But um, so I uh if you could just talk a little bit about CPP's IT strategy, you know, cloud adoption. Huge, huge as I was coming out, and thankfully, you know, getting money for that. But zero trust, cybersecurity, and responsible AI, as Jody brought up, not only can we implement it, but does it work and you know how we use it responsibly in there? Um, what does that translate into for frontline operations, all the you know, the IT strategy?

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely. So I I would say, yes, everything you just mentioned, right? Zero trust, cybersecurity, responsible AI, cloud adoption, while continuing to improve our infrastructure. Like that's I think that's the piece, you know, we talk about the buzzwords, and I will absolutely talk about what those translate to from an operational efficiencies perspective, but to the point that XD Harden just made. If there is no communication available at a port of entry, if there is Wi-Fi not available at a far-flung Border Patrol station, we still have an obligation to make sure that that infrastructure is up to scratch and meets the requirements that our operators have day to day. While we are creating opportunities to embed the things that we're talking about here. And ultimately that translates to a handful of things that are always sort of, you know, eyes on the prize. That's enhanced situational awareness, that's improved agent and officer safety. Uh, you know, in the trade and travel context, it's reduced wait times. And then ultimately also allowing for collaboration across agencies because CBP is very good at many things, but we don't own everything. And there are agencies out there that are better at things than we are. And so making sure that we have flexible systems that allow us to be collaborative with those agencies where it makes sense is a is also a part of that strategy. You know, places where I think that from for the industry folks in the room, you know, where you think about where we'll you'll see these things come to fruition or where they'll manifest, certainly that's in the context of the automated commercial environment and the modernization of that platform. You know, you mentioned in a totally different context, but still very relevant. Uh, you mentioned that we have these systems out there that they were built at a time for a reason in a way that made sense. And those systems have to continue to operate. But ACE is a great example of a place where we are making investments to, you know, to make the modifications we need to keep that system nimble and up and running while we look across the horizon to a new ACE that will eventually be cloud-based, be nimble, right? We'll have the flexibilities that right now our folks stay up real, real late making sure happens every time we deploy something new, because the system was just not built with that kind of flexibility. Um, we talked about cloud adoption. What I will say about cloud adoption, and again, not getting in front of the panel this afternoon, because they will really, you know, blow your blow your mind with cloud in a way that I certainly couldn't. What I will tell you about cloud adoption is fundamentally it is about flexibility and uptime. For all of those things that we have already transitioned to the cloud, we are seeing enormous increases in availability and uptime. And it also obviously allows us to be flexible, to make quick changes. The operational tempo is dynamic. It is quick. And what we need to do on a Tuesday might look very different than what we need to do on a Friday in the same week. And having systems that have that built-in flexibility because of the way that they are architected and infrastructured allows us to be responsive to what the operators need. And in the end, that's that's the ballgame.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you for that. Earl, we we spoke a little bit about the you know, the soul sourcing and then um being competitive, but I want to kind of switch into you know what what role do the innovative vendors, especially, you know, play in CBP's acquisition strategy under OB3? Right? So I mean, given the scale and the urgency of all these things having to be done, what do those innovative vendors have, what's their role?

SPEAKER_00:

So I I look at it this way. Um we value industry engagement, and so we we do a lot of industry and engagement activities so we can uh hear from innovative uh companies. So last year alone we did 681 individual meetings with vendors to meet with them to get their ideas of innovative ways we could do things, whether uh, you know, and also quite frankly learn about their capabilities and requirements. But in addition, another way for innovative uh innovative uh companies to be heard is we do a lot of RFIs. So last year we did 10 uh six RFIs where we're requesting information to understand what's out there. So that's a great opportunity. We do draft RFPs, so those are solicitations that's a little bit further down than just the general RFI, but that is another opportunity, and that's part of that 106. And then last year we did four large industry days. Um, OFO did one, Border Patrol did one, um, OS did one. Um, and and so a a lot of opportunities for um companies to provide their innovative strategies. And so earlier uh EAC Cooper brought up the CBP business connection portal. I think that is something that you should utilize. And as part of that, that is a um you can upload information, your capabilities. You also can pick the different offices you want to meet with. Um, but there's also trainings that we provide for those innovative companies of how to do business with CBP. So on the first and third Tuesday of every month, we have a training on how to do business with CBP. You can register through the CBP business connection portal. So just look at it, look for it in your um search engine. And then I would say in general, whether you're innovative or or not, that I would say um make sure you, if you really want a great opportunity to do business with CBP, is get on strategic sourcing vehicles. So the department has them, DHS, CBP, CBP doesn't do them, but um GSA does them. Um and then you have the government-wide acquisition contracts. And the reason I say that is 93% of our spend goes through spend under management, as OMB uh uh categorizes it. And that means we use strategic sourcing vehicles heavily. That's 93% of all of our obligations go through that. So just another way for innovative, because if you you have innovation, I mean, there's ways for us to get you, get, get with you using NIFAR, the CSOP process, OTAs, SIBR, but those are the ways that you you can as you know as well. But I try to funnel you or push you to some of the more strategic sourcing vehicles because we use them all the time.

SPEAKER_02:

And I'm glad you brought those up this past year, whenever I've been working with different industries, excuse me. A lot of those, they weren't on any of that. And then they bought they have a great, they have something great to be able to provide, but you can't. If you if you can't, if CBP can't get to you, then it doesn't do any good. You got to do that homework up front to make sure that they have the ability to get to your great product or whatever you're doing. So great. Thanks for bringing that up. Um, so I want to kind of switch back to AI, especially with the NII. Like what role does automation AI play in everything that you're doing, especially in reducing the workload on the officers? Uh I think the deputy commissioner spoke a little bit about you know what that would mean for us, but if you can go a little bit deeper on that one.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think um specific to NII, I think originally when we were looking at it, there was a lot of um concepts around image adjudication. And and what we're finding is that um with image adjudication, if you are looking for a specific thing that tends to look specifically like it does all the time, um, it's been proven out there that AI is very good at locating that within an image. We're talking about, you know, um, again, going back to like our specific mission set across CBP, um, it's it's not about just looking for a single thing. You know, that's part of the challenge that we have is that NII is a tool in what we do for our overall mission. We are supposed to be screening um every person, every bit of cargo, every conveyance that comes through at ports of entry. Um, when we're looking to do that, it's not for a specific thing. We're looking for potential smuggling of narcotics, terrorists, criminals, um, immigration violations, trade violations, you know, all of this um gamut of things that we have to have conversations with people, we have to inspect, you know, cargo, we're looking at different aspects of information that we receive in advance, things that we don't know. And really, where AI has been very helpful is where we know specific processes and again, those administrative tasks. If it's something that we have a finite um, you know, data set on, um, it's gonna be pretty much the same every time. We know that this is a process that goes a certain way and it doesn't go off of that. And it's not going into sort of that law enforcement realm where, you know, um it's hard to sort of describe what it is that that you would have AI trained to do that. You know, there's a lot of science behind what um people want to look at with AI and what you can replicate in what humans are able to do. But with law enforcement, it's a little bit of everything big picture. So, you know, um, we've yet to come across the magic AI that's gonna fix everything that we do. Um, we there is no single AI that's gonna solve, you know, massive problems. We've seen great successes with AI that does face matching. Um, that's helped us monumentally from me having to study a picture on a passport, study the person in front of me, go to a computer, pull up a bunch of information, you know. Um, but again, the the success of that wasn't just in that facial matching. It was re-engineering this whole process of how we did, you know, how we did this inspection process. So again, for AI, there's definite um use cases out there that we see that are going to be very successful. Um, we anything that we're doing to cull through the data is really um, I think where the largest bang for the buck is. Um, but we're exploring all these different avenues and it's all uh again by discrete processes out there that we, you know, that we're doing in our the entirety of everything that we do on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Jody. And because I I said I was gonna leave time for QA, I still had some more stuff for you all, but I do want to get because these are the people you want to ask the questions to. I know you don't always get access to them, so I do want to open up for the questions um before we get to those. And of course, Phil's hand's always up first. That's the first one I saw with the light. So go ahead, Phil.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh am I on? Can you hear me? Yeah. Uh I really appreciate you speaking this morning. And I as I was thinking about uh each way that you guys are having to scale with uh with a significant increase in funding and and furthering the mission, something I was particularly curious about was uh how when you scale, there's obviously efficiencies defined. Where do you where do you trade off between actually just executing on that new scale and finding the time to do things more efficiently in terms of process policy tools, dealing with the far overhaul, bringing in new innovation? What's that trade-off like uh in in your in your day-to-day job where you're having to decide where do I focus on finding efficiency and where do I focus on just executing the the massive amount of work you have to do?

SPEAKER_03:

I would say um it's gotten very tactical and and something that I'm I'm comfortable with. We're used to operating in a tactical world in the field. But um things, uh, you know, my my area is in planning. And we, for a lot of what we're doing out there, there is a lot of planning that you want to go in there. We're taking it and we're chunking it out. We're working very closely with Earl's team to sit there and go, you know what? This is the laundry list of things we got to tackle. Um, I've got to prove these things out. These things have been proven. We're gonna start with these things and we're, you know, racking and stacking. I'm gonna, you know, execute purchasing this many pieces of equipment, leveraging this contract. We're gonna work on a longer-term strategy for getting these things done. We're testing this thing, you know, actively to get it rolling by this date. It's a very dynamic kind of uh plan that's going on there. I would say I've never been in more meetings um since OB3 uh funding came through for us than um I have in my entire government career on a single topic, but that's what it takes. So we're sitting there handling it very tactically to break down all the various aspects of things we have to do because we have to start on things immediately. We have to have, you know, medium term is what we're gonna accomplish. We're gonna get things on contract by this date. We're gonna be like executing by this date and looking to, you know, kind of layer all of that. So it is, it's a it's a challenge. Um, like I said, for me, I I like that. It's operational pace. Um, I'm sure it's uh making Earl's team probably a little stressed out there because it is um it's it's that challenge again that you mentioned earlier of we we have that accountability and these things we got to do. And I've got to make sure his team is comfortable that we're not going off the rails with some you know request with it as well. I don't know if you want to speak a little bit about what how we've been driving you crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, you know, I even made the uh comment to uh Ryan earlier. Back in the day, uh I would say I'm day-to-day, now I'm hour to hour. So that's how I handle it. I mean, it just to give you a little bit of context. Um in FY fiscal year 2024, we did$6 billion in obligations. Last year, we did$11.3 billion. And then just to give it more context, action-wise, we went from 6,787 actions to 7,135 actions. So we built a culture of how to do this. Um and and so quite frankly, I'm like, you know, I love being strategic, but now I'm really tactical. And and to a certain certain degree, I I can roll with it because I've already had to do it so many other times. So that that would be my answer. That uh it doesn't, it's it's just our culture, it's what we do.

SPEAKER_04:

That's right. I I think Jody, you talked about it being very tactile, and and for some of these programs it is, right? We're up to our elbows in day to day how many people are in what class at the academy. But ultimately, there is a strategy that that rolls up to, and it's all about having multiple levers, right? I'll use the fleet program as the example. And I hope there are folks in the room who responded to our RFI that closed on the 12th. We, you know, we have the traditional ways we've always procured fleet. We have partners at GSA that have abilities to procure fleet. What else is out there in the world? And none of these things are mutually exclusive. It's about having multiple levers to be able to say, I need to move out quickly on this thing, and I know there's a good mechanism for me to uh to be able to execute that. And then while I'm doing that, where can I look at other strategic efficiencies that can be brought into this same program so that we are ultimately it's about delivering not only what, but when the operator needs it, and with an accountability for the expenditure of those taxpayer dollars. And having multiple levers to do that with, I think is key for every program, particularly under the One Big Beautiful Bill.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think Jody's description of what it's like and that a day in the life of CBP when you're at headquarters and all, that's every hour of the day that you're constantly adjusting. Tactical is a great word to do for because there's so much going on. So if you ever wonder why they don't answer your email or answer your text or answer your that's why, because they're in the next tactical saving whatever's going on right at that moment. And unfortunately, I didn't leave much time for questions, is a great question, Phil. I mean, we got to go through all that. We didn't get Through all our questions because there's so much in depth of everything that you all are going on. I appreciate everything you're doing. I know Megan's going to come give me the hook here in a second if I don't wrap it up. But I want to thank each of you all again. It's great seeing you. It's great being back again. I miss the purpose driven thing, what CBP does. I miss the people. Um, not so much being in government service, but I miss all that. But I miss all you all 100%. It's great. So thank you all very much for participating on the panel, and we'll end it right there. Thank you very much.