Modernizing the ICE Mission: A Conversation with Dustin Goetz Part 3

Welcome to “HSDF THE PODCAST,” a collection of policy discussions on government technology and homeland security brought to you by the Homeland Security and Defense Forum 

In this episode, We answer sharp audience questions on crypto indicators, device searches, and why precision beats volume. Then we map the road to sustainable innovation, hybrid testing, and a biometric-plus-digital ID future as the World Cup and Olympics near.

 Featuring:

- Dustin Goetz, Chief Information Officer, Immigration and Customs Enforcement 

- Luke McCormack, Former CIO, Departments of Homeland Security and Justice (moderator)

 This discussion took place January 22nd, 2026, at HSDF’s Technology Innovation in Government Symposium

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Transcript

Audience Q&A Opens

SPEAKER_08 0:00

All right, we're gonna hold on any partnership more conversation because we wanna partner with you all and open up for questions for uh about 10 minutes or so. So fire away on questions. Who's got a question? Got one in the middle, got one over here.

Crypto Indicators For Frontline Officers

SPEAKER_01 0:20

So good morning. Thank you very much for everyone's time. This question is for Mr. Davies. Um with the drastic decrease in cash seizures on the border. Um great job by you and your team. How crucial, in your opinion, is it for the frontline CDP officers to have a basic knowledge of crypto and its indicators when they have an individual in secondary with the also trend of cartels and non-state actors leveraging crypto to conduct their business?

Device Searches Policy And Precision

SPEAKER_06 0:51

Yeah, that's that's a good question. I mean, that when we look at all the different threats that we're facing, I mean, we are still seeing uh currency move through our ports of entry. Crypto is a an interesting one for us because we know that there are indicators out there. A lot of it is uh, you know, some of the work that the administration has done on designating cartel members as foreign terrorist organizations has really helped give us some additional tools at looking at electronic devices and doing forensic searches. Uh, but some of it is really just is is very basic as giving the tools to our officers in some uh some one-page or sheets that we have to say, these are the apps to look for, these are the types of things to to and having crypto doesn't mean you've done anything illegal. Let me just say that too from the stop. Like um, but but it's an indicator that there might be something else there. And and so it's part of the whole assessment of risk as we're looking at a passenger and and you know, giving us if we need uh to dive deeper, you know, if we we have to establish probable cause to get to a point where we're we're d delving deeper into that. Um but it it can open up a line of questioning. And so making sure that the the frontline officers, as you pointed to, have that awareness at the very start. And and you know, I will say when we s we talk about uh searches of electronic media devices at ports of entry, there's been a lot of over the years um kind of angst about what we do, but we see that that that percentage of overall inspections really has stayed pretty static. I think over the last year, people have, because of cases being highlighted in the media, have had this sense that, well, CBP is cracking down and we're looking at more devices. We have a very stringent policy for our officers about what they can look at and why they can look at it. Uh and what we're seeing is not in fact like a huge increase. It's it's we're being more targeted, we're being more efficient at what we're finding. And in in virtually every single case, including the ones that are highlighted in the media, when people are complaining about us looking at the devices, whether it's for crypto or for child sexual exploitation material or national security affiliations, uh, there's a reason. And and there's something underlying that that is at the bottom of it. We don't just go around randomly looking at people's phones, but but that's a good point. It is something we're we're tracking, and uh there's a lot of tools we have on the back end to to work with our partners in the federal law enforcement community on financial transactions and tying that stuff together that is part of the the effort as well. This gentleman over here.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Thank you. Thank you all very much for your time this morning. Ritesh Saksina with Salesforce MuleSoft. My question is for Balaji. You mentioned earlier about sustainable innovation. Uh could you please elaborate a little bit on that and also share with us how TSA is driving sustainable innovation?

SPEAKER_05 3:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Thank you.

Back-End Financial Tools And Partnerships

Defining Sustainable Innovation At TSA

AI, Supply Chain, And Enterprise Licenses

SPEAKER_05 3:26

Um thanks for the question. Um so as you might have heard, uh like um the secretary has uh you know provided us with you know uh an ability to for us to reallocate some of the fundings to modernize TSA, right? So those have been announced. What we want to do is not say you got a billion dollars to modernize, it's okay. So um so what we want to make sure is it's used properly, right? It's used in such a way that what we are using is sustainable. We are buying things, we are accelerating the innovation that's sustainable. Meaning it is repeatable, it is maintainable, we are not just simply doing a flash and then it's off, right? So that's something which we need to work with the industry partners on. For example, the way we had broken down the various aspects of what technology we want to introduce, and we want to bring in the best of the reads in AI algorithm, you know, uh for analysis of an image. It's it's a sustainable model, right? We were bringing in, we're not just saying hey, we want to buy the whole thing and then live it up to the vendors to do it. So the other things are like supply chain security and things like that. Those are you know, working with our partners and working with DHS, CIO office, and CISO office to make sure our supply chain is sustainable, right? So the the other thing that we are looking at is, you know, um CIO McLeod has said about, talked about uh enterprise licenses, enterprise initiatives. Uh so not have our own, for example, the data fabric layer, so to have it at the enterprise level, the enterprise level identity fabric. That's his part of his initiative. That's sustainable for us. Uh looking at uh enterprise license across the board for case management. You bring in Salesforce, there is also other competitors of yours. How are we using across the board, right? Like uh, you know, what is our model for enterprise licenses? We are working very closely with DHS uh CNP office, our CNP office as well as to figure out what that sustainable model needs to be. So we are looking at every layer of sustainability, even though it's technology related, it has you know, chief counsel's office, the privacy office, the contract office, you know, all of those things. For our operational technology, it is very much an important aspect that we we are looking at the the uh the program management office to see what that model is going to look like. How are we gonna bring in those um you know innovation, many of which are like embedded systems that we need to figure out how that IT is going to deal with that. So next question.

SPEAKER_08 6:15

Right here. Try to get too many as we can. We want to leave about three or four minutes at the end.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Go ahead. Thank you. Good morning. Uh Boyd Brown with Astreon. Uh everybody on the panel, and I'm sure a lot of uh uh folks throughout the day are going to talk about you know the technology we have, the technology we're trying to acquire, and how we get those two different sets integrated into the enterprise and how it operates. All that's really screaming for a pretty robust test and evaluation uh effort. Do you do you really see do you see the test and evaluation effort uh more centralized at the headquarters level with an ST? Do you see it broken up across different agencies or some combination thereof?

Testing And Evaluation: Centralized Or Not

Agile Releases And Shared Data Fabric

SPEAKER_05 7:07

Fireway. I I would say some combination thereof, right? So it depends on what is at the enterprise level we want to bring in. For example, the biometric matching and other things. We are working very closely with the department. We could we have components that have led that effort, so we work closely with them. But when it comes to operational technology, we are we are working with the airports, we are working with uh you know private parties to see if we can do operational testings and evaluation at a faster rate, like for example, cross-screening, remote screening technology. We're not going to wait for some enterprise-level initiatives. We're going to work with them. So it's a combination of those. And as far as the software and software releases go, we work very closely with our, you know, the contracted vendors to see whether it is, you know, agile methodology and other methodology to you know test it out. Um, and when it comes to collaboration, we are extremely like, you know, at the height of the collaboration when it comes to say uh passing on the data, you know, common vetting, common understanding of what the data needs to be. We are working closely with IES and the CVP and others because that's part of our DHS initiative that's been asked as a part of that. So it's an initial step in the the data fabric layer.

SPEAKER_08 8:27

So that's a question. Try to get to as many of these as we can. Questions. Oh, I'm sorry, here you go. Thank you all for doing.

unknown 8:45

Cool.

SPEAKER_07 8:45

Um, my name's Edward Graham, and I'm the managing editor at NextGove. Um, I wanted to follow up on a question that Luke asked earlier about digital IDs, and a lot of the responses seem to be more that biometrics is the future. Um, you know, as someone who just got the real ID, um, I had a really hard time actually finding my certified birth certificate. And I know, you know, sometimes it'll be hard to find those um, you know, IDs and documents that we got when we were first born. Um, but kind of, you know, digging into the biometric component as well, um, you know, do you see the future of identity verification as more heavily biometric focused or more, you know, digital ID focused? You know, it seems like some combo is probably the future. And if it is biometric, you know, what regulations or policies or standards need to be set, you know, perhaps on the federal level to kind of uh, you know, push broader adoption of these tools. I know, for example, you know, for TSA at the airports, you know, it's currently optional, but it seems like, you know, we're moving towards a future where this is going to be a more standard, you know, used form of verification, you know, perhaps in line with digital ID. So I'm just curious about how you see the future of identity verification moving forward.

SPEAKER_08 9:54

Yeah, and the standards, even international standards. Let me throw it over to Tim first and just any perspective on that. And then I know you all have your own point of view.

International Standards And Coordination

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Yeah, I think, I think from a travel perspective, we've got some some folks here that are probably more expert than I am. I think internationally, you know, one of the things that the State Department, obviously, we are tip of the spear with the embassies around the globe. Um, it's coordinating with, you know, our interagency partners and foreign counterparts on, you know, understanding what they're doing. So we have, you know, from an interagency uh U.S. federal government standpoint, we're part of CIO councils, the chief data and AI officer councils, just talking to the different agencies about where are they going with certain things. From an international relations perspective, um, we regularly have you know summits and other things with various technology leaders from our foreign counterparts focusing on these very topics and understanding where they're moving and comparing notes about technology solutions, business processes, et cetera. Um so that's what I would say. Um I don't I can't tell you exactly where it's where it's going and exactly how we're going, but I would say like my short answer is a combination. I think we are definitely modernizing all of our systems and our environments, bringing that data forward to partner up with biometric uh capabilities.

Mega-Events: World Cup And Olympics Planning

SPEAKER_08 11:12

All right, I have a couple more questions for these folks. It's sort of a combo platter, uh a bit of a fun question, if you will. Um for the traveling public at large, right? Uh for the Olympics. Well, let's start with the World Club and then the Olympics, uh, two for for each of you. You know, what can one expect to see different than they see today in that environment from your perspective, State Department?

FIFA Pass And Visa Head Starts

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah, I I I mentioned this a little bit earlier, so I guess sneak preview and and this is available. There's a lot more information about this on state.gov, but collaboration with, again, with industry, with our partners like FIFA, um, obviously the interagency partners, but um the FIFA Pass process, right? G giving folks that are trying to travel, um, that have purchased World Cup tickets uh the ability to register through FIFA Pass in coordination with the Department of State and probably many other folks, um, so that they can they can kind of get a head start on that that visa process if visas are required for them to travel in. So it gives them access uh to that information, uh the ability to kind of integrate between our various systems.

SPEAKER_08 12:20

But is it really just a coordination? I mean, if I show up at the airport and say, hey, I got FIFA Pass, is he gonna say, so what? Get in line. You know?

SPEAKER_03 12:28

I mean, is there a relationship there or is it well ultimately FIFA Pass is is you know is going into the actual visa, right? So it's it's helping give you a head start if you are trying to travel to the to the US for the World Cup, a head start to your visa uh approval. Perfect. You still have to go through all the over controls.

Dedicated Lanes For Accredited Travelers

Seamless Walk-Through Border Tech

SPEAKER_06 12:46

Yeah, I'll I'll touch on that to answer your question because I think I think when it comes, we've had this conversation with FIFA uh because of the unknown, I guess, volume of fans that might be coming to visit. I mean, first-time travelers, all that. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about uh uh hundreds of millions of people who might be interested in tickets, but there's only seven million tickets available for all the matches, right? So uh but there's also a sizable foreign population that's coming to support with the teams and the support and the the uh accredited individuals through FIFA. And so what what we're working with FIFA on at the ports of entry is that those accredited travelers will have a uh dedicated processing pathway, right? And and that that we're trying to work with it so that it doesn't become confusing for fans because I don't want a flight coming in from a country where everyone on that flight is coming for the World Cup and then everyone it doesn't do any good to put them all in this in the the the FIFA lane because they're all still in the same lane together. Um so just trying to prioritize those people who are the accredited individuals, the ones who are actually part of the matches, uh separate from the fans. Not that we're not gonna process the fans, but we're fairly effective in terms of even at volume during our summer peak, uh, we don't see high wait times like we used two years ago, and we're getting you know increases in our our uh staffing perspective. So I think we'll be well positioned for uh the the influx of of foreign visitors for all the different events that are happening in the summer. The biggest thing that's gonna change for us, as I mentioned earlier, is really our our GE modernization effort, the seamless walk-through technology, you don't even have to stop at a camera anymore. That's the biggest thing we're looking to get out before World Cup.

E-Gates, mDLs, And Data-Driven Operations

SPEAKER_08 14:20

Aaron, Aaron, any perspective from here?

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Yeah, I would I would just add, um, you know, building on something I mentioned earlier, is that as we see more of the events get closer, um we're we're gonna learn from each of them and some of the things that we'll be able to see like in the airports, but also on in people's um apps that they're using for um tickets and for other enrollments, that there's a more variety in how travelers are gonna be able to use that for a different experience, whether that's wayfinding or enrollment or just commercial activity. And it just really builds on the foundation of what uh what the rest of the panel has been sharing.

SPEAKER_08 15:01

Well, see, I I know you've got some stuff cooking there for for both the World Cup and for the Olympics. So talk World Cup.

Closing Thanks And Audience Acknowledgment

SPEAKER_05 15:08

Yeah, so so the c we've we're focusing very much on the customer experience and passenger experience and through multiple means. And uh for the question on the digital ID, and you know, if you go into the TSA website, there are other acceptable forms of ID, just not the digital ID alone. You know, you have several other forms. So we are going to emphasize working in a partnership on the e-gate, uh, the digital ID, and you know, a uh other uh forms of ID that are M doc you know compliant. Um on the back end, we are trying to make sure all of our OTs that are necessary are providing the data, the health data, the telemetric data, so that the original question of yours, you know, how do we make sure the proper resources are allocated to move the line and things like that are you know, we have the data-driven decision that is available to the uh the decision makers. And that's another one. So you would see a lot of e-gates on that thing. The other thing that we have talked about is the visitor pass, the gate passes, the golden age of travel, some of these um things that are coming up, and also to use our own ID for you know entering into the uh the event arena and things like that, working with those partnerships with them is something that we are taking a look at as well.

SPEAKER_08 16:25

Looking forward to that. XD, Davis, Balaji, Tim, and Aaron. Uh really appreciate everything you you all are doing to keep this country safe and give these uh traveling public uh folks a uh a great customer experience, and thanks for all you do. And thank you, audience, for uh participating.