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Why We Love Milan

• the getAwayZ – European Travel Podcast • Season 2 • Episode 20

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Milan is a city we’ve spent real time in. Living nearby meant it was never just a stop on a trip and that changes how you experience it.

In this episode, we talk about what it’s like spending time in Milan. The neighborhoods we kept going back to. The food. The design. How the city works day to day and why it feels different from other places in Italy. We also talk about why Milan makes sense when you give it time instead of rushing through it.

This is not a highlights episode or a checklist. It’s a conversation about Milan as a place to spend time, not just pass through.



Music: Seize the Day by Andrey Rossi via Uppbeat
License code: G7J4UDC0NAOFRJYL

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome back. I'm Lisa. And I'm Erin. And this is the Getaways Podcast. We are being very, very timely today. Very timely. So we are going to talk about Milan, which is we lived like 45-minute train ride, hour train ride from there.

SPEAKER_00:

45 minutes. I like to say that we lived in the suburbs of Milan. But we lived in Torino.

SPEAKER_01:

But if you're listening in real time, the Olympics are on with day they just started.

SPEAKER_00:

Day three, right? Day three.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So they are in Milan and Cortina. The Winter Olympics, obviously. Yes. And this is the second time that it's been in this area, the first time being in 1956.

SPEAKER_00:

56, but it was strictly in Cortina then.

SPEAKER_01:

And they're reusing some of the original venues. Yeah. Oh, okay. And then they've done some builds too, but it's fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they had the Winter Olympics. The only other time was in Torino in 2006. So before we lived there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and a place that we went skiing a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

That's where Dylan learned to ski. Yeah. So Milan, it's one I think it's probably one of my favorite cities in all of Italy.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think it's got a bit of a bad rap. I mean, we didn't go there until we lived in Torino, really. I mean, we landed there when we came into the country. But everybody sort of says a lot of southern Italians, like below there, say that it's industrial and it's not as doesn't have the like cultural history, which I don't see. There's so much about Milan that I love.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as a tourist before we moved here, I had been to Milan before. And I did feel it was more industrial, more gritty than like a Rome. But I've come to love that. And it's beautiful. Like so it's it's silly.

SPEAKER_01:

And has a lot to offer in different areas, but should we just kind of dive in? Yeah. Okay. So in terms of placement in Italy, it's in the northern part of Italy in the Lombardia region. And it is more a little bit more of the financial and business center in Italy. Yes. Right? Easy to get into from the airports. There's the two big because Lanate is a pretty big airport, too.

SPEAKER_00:

Lenate's, yes, because I believe it does also have international flights coming into it.

SPEAKER_01:

So you do Valpenza's huge. Yeah. And that's where you would fly in. You'd fly into Milan to go to Como, Venice, Bologna. Well, you can find into Bologna too. But there is, you know, it's a it's a hub. It's a big, a big city. And it has a lot to offer. So let's talk about those sites.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so we're just starting with sites.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I think obviously the biggest and probably most famous is the Duomo, right? Which is an extraordinary gothic cathedral that is sort of the picture I think everybody imagines when you think of Milan. And the cathedral itself is studying.

SPEAKER_00:

I haven't been in.

SPEAKER_01:

You haven't been in.

SPEAKER_00:

I haven't been in and I haven't been up. You have been in both.

SPEAKER_01:

So, okay, so you can go in and obviously tour in the cathedral. But my favorite thing, and I think the thing that a lot of people don't know about is that you can buy a special ticket that allows you to go to the roof. And so you are basically like in amongst like the flying buttresses. And you are at the top of you're at the top of the duomo, but you're even with a lot of the other like taller buildings around you. So you've got an amazing view, but you're also like this is such a weird thing to say, but it's almost like you're a live gargoyle up there because you're like peeking over the edges and like seeing, like you're a part of the roof structure. And it's it's it's hard to describe. We have pictures of it. It's hard to describe just because it's such a surreal experience. And it's not for the faint of heart. You are quite high. The roof is pretty good angle. So it's like you don't wear heels up there. You go up there in you know, tennis shoes and ready to climb. There's stairs and an elevator up. Um elevator. Yeah, but even if you take the elevator, you still have to climb a few stairs and be in appropriate shoes because it's a little crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

And now can you see all of them along? Like when you're on top of Saint St. Peter's or in the Duomo in Florence, you can see everything. Is it the same kind of vibe?

SPEAKER_01:

It's not quite the same vibe. You get it definitely get a bird's eye view of the piazza and the surrounding areas, but there's quite a few high buildings right around the duomo. So it's more just kind of being in this like gothic Right. Yeah, the Duomo is so gothic. Yeah. And so, and you know, I'm I love a flying buttress. And so, like standing right next to it and being able to see all the because the thing is, is that when you're on the ground anywhere in Europe, you miss all the details of all the carvings and all of the craziness that has the intricacies of the buildings. Here, when you're on the roof, it is right next to you. Okay, okay. So it's a whole different level of appreciation for the thought and the care and the detail that went into the actual construction.

SPEAKER_00:

And was it expensive?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was like 20 euro. I mean, it was not, and then you also have to pay to get into the church.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And is this something you have to pre-book?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And also you should know that we were there with my sisters in winter, and there was a whole area that was closed off because of ice.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So and you don't want to be up there if it's icy because it's like I said, there's a a fair grade to the roof. And so they don't let you do the whole thing. But even in winter, we were able to go around kind of the perimeter, and I it is it is by far one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So I love the Duomo. I think it's beautiful, gorgeous. And it's I don't know if it's the biggest piazza in in Milano, but it's the one I always think of, right? The main piazza. And we're gonna talk about the Christmas markets at later, but that's where the Christmas markets are all held. So something really lame about me, once we moved to Italy, I missed Starbucks. And when we moved to Italy, Starbucks were not allowed to exist because they're very protective over their coffee. So when it was like what, a year in, two years in, they had just opened the first Starbucks and it was a roastery. I think it's the first roastery they ever opened, and it was remember how like we walked in and yeah, it's a Starbucks, but this was like so fancy, and they had the roastery there, and they had like nitro, nitrogen, ice cream, and it was it was like such a cool experience. And they made it so all the beans had to be roasted, I believe, in Italy.

SPEAKER_01:

So now there's Starbucks everywhere in Italy, but that's just something that but that one, I mean, the f the thing that struck me about that, and people wait to get in. I mean it's fancy, and it reminds me of like the Willy Wonka chocolate factory of Starbucks coffee. I mean, it's it's a spectacle. I mean, it's there's so much to look at, it's beautiful, it's there's interesting things. Yeah, I mean, that's normally I don't even like Starbucks. Like I I do not drink it, but that is a cool place to see.

SPEAKER_00:

I agree a hundred percent. And another thing I love, this is just me personally, in the Piazza Duomo is Renascente. I think it's probably the biggest and best Renoscente in all of Italy. Renescente is like like a Sax Fifth Avenue.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a it's a high-end apartment store.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but it's so good.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's Sax Fifth Avenue still around.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, but maybe everybody listening knows what Sax Fifth Avenue is.

SPEAKER_01:

We hope you're old and you understand. But yeah, it's a high end and they do a really nice job of decorating for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00:

I have a fact, I have a couple facts. Okay. So for the Duomo, I have facts for the Duomo. Uh, it took nearly 600 years to complete.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

It started in 1386 and they finished in 1965.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's not that long ago.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's crazy, isn't it? And a weird fact is there's over 3,400 statues on the duomo, making it one of the most statue-covered buildings in the world. Well, and you can see them up close if you go up to the roof. Yes. So the next one.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, wait, hold on. Before we go there, we just to reiterate again that there's security going into the duomo, and obviously they check your tickets and all of that. So also make sure that you're dressed appropriately, that your shoulders are covered, your knees are covered. Yes. You are appropriate to go into a church. And in summer, all that means is carry wrap or carry a scarf or something. So that and no hats, obviously, inside, but just something to be aware of because they will not let you in.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Okay, moving on. So the next place is the Gallery Vittorio Emanuele the Second, which is basically just like kind of a covered passageway.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a mall in a weird way.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, with like really some really good restaurants. I don't, I believe that's where they filmed Willy Wonka with Timothy Chalamet, or they they they recreated it, I think. Yeah, they based it off of the gallery.

SPEAKER_01:

It's it's you've all seen it. It's the it's stunning. It's got a glass ceiling, it's all marble and glass, and it's just beautiful. And they have in winter or Christmas time, they've got a big Christmas tree in the middle, which is absolutely ridiculously beautiful. And and yeah, there's tons of shops, like very high-end restaurants, all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00:

I just watched uh The Grammys last week, and there is a preview for the Deborah Wars Prada 2. And there's a big like moment with Meryl Streep in the gallery. It was really cool. Some interesting facts about the Galleria, Vittorio Emanuele, is it's one of the oldest shopping malls in the world. So you were right, it is kind of a shopping mall. And it opened in 1877, and there's a mosaic. Okay, this is a weird fact. There's a mosaic bull on the floor and people spin on its testicles for good luck.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I know that's what I do.

SPEAKER_00:

Which has caused the tile to be repaired multiple times. So he's got worn out testicles. Yeah, it's so funny. It's so funny. All right, our next one is Castella Sephoresco, and pr excuse my pronunciation. I've never been in this, but I we park by there a lot when we would drive. We have been in this.

SPEAKER_01:

We have? Yeah, there's like tons of museums in there. You didn't go in with me when I went to see the Pietà, but but we went in and we there was like, oh crap, I don't remember the name of it, but there was like loads of dishes and stuff. Dil the three of us went in there and did a whole like we followed like a kids' map scavenger hunt through one of the museums. And Milan? Yeah, and then after that we walked through the park and we got ice cream and or we got gelato and walked around the park. It's the I I remember the park. We went to the museum first. I'm pretty sure you guys were with me. But that's where the the Pietas at the Last Supper? No, the Piet is when Mary is there are several of them, but when Mary is seated and she's got the body of Jesus like laid across her lap. But there's you went in that by yourself? I did. It was unless I went with Lori.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe I I don't think I've ever I parked near there and we walked through the park by it numerous times, but I don't think I've ever been in there.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, well maybe I was with Lori then, but I thought that you guys were with us. But yeah, so there's all kinds of museums in there, and they're all very different, all have a different, you know, point of view and theme. But it was great because when I went into the the one with the Piet, which is terrible that I don't know the name, but I was the only we were the only ones in there. And so we could really just like walk around and look at it closely, and it was it was very, very cool. But it's just a beautiful structure. You could spend as much time as you wanted or as little time as you wanted in each of the museums, but the building's amazing, the park behind it is amazing. Yeah. So no, it's definitely worth seeing.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, yeah, it definitely wasn't us, but maybe I need to go there. So, my interesting fact about that is Leonardo da Vinci worked here and designed defensive systems for the castle. Did you learn about that? I did not. And then a weird fact is the castle has been destroyed, rebuilt, and repurposed so many times that parts of it were used once as a military barracks and warehouses rather than a residence. Hmm.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I will also say that right around that neighborhood, there is like the most enormous open air market where there's like one half is food and then the other half is like goods. And it was definitely on the cold side. So it was there was all kinds, it wasn't a Christmas market, but it was like gloves and hats and scarves and all kinds of like handmade things. It was enormous. I mean like blocks and blocks and blocks.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh. Well, I will say that I parked near there once when Dylan and I had to go to the embassy to pick up our passports and or his passport, and there's some nice neighborhoods around it. And we walked by this one house that had a beautiful fenced front yard and they had a bunch of chickens in their yard.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I found it very strange. Right in the middle of the city. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So then the Barrera district, which is the neighborhood that's just north of the Duomo, and it's like just incredibly charming. It's got very it's like mom and poppy kind of shops, very narrow streets, like smaller buildings, feels feels truly like a neighborhood. Yes. But has this cool artistic vibe, but also like it just feels artistic. I mean, it feels it feels like artisans, like that's where you live there. You know, like the the the cool people live there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, probably still do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh they never so when they did modern modernization of Milan and widened streets, they never widen the streets in this district. So it still feels very cozy and old world y. Yeah. That's why. Yeah. And then the next place that people talk about, and you've been to, I have not been to, is Navig. Navilli.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, which is has tons of like canals, and it's the same kind of like narrow street, homey vibe, but it's a lot more, a lot more bars, a lot more restaurants, a lot more sort of like nightlife y activity. And then the some of the canals were partially designed or entirely designed by Da Vinci. So it's just, it's also, it's kind of a nice combination of everything, right? Because you've got these great places to eat and walk around. And that's where too in winter they have those little igloos along the canals. Oh, they do. So that's kind of a cool place to hang out. And anything from, you know, lunch to aperitible to dinner, like you'll find something really lovely and cool down there. And it's just a fun place to walk around.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, so I've got facts about that area.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

As you mentioned, it's got canals. Milan once had extend an extensive canal system used to transport marble for the Duomo. So that's how they would get the marble back and forth. And in the 20th century, they covered up the majority of the canal system, but there's still free water flowing underneath the streets.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice. That's that's interesting. Okay, so this next thing is not usually my bag, but I'm so glad we went. I went with my sister Lori, and it was to the Monumental Cemetery. And it is exactly what the name says. It is this cemetery that opened in 1866, and it is first of all, enormous. And second of all, we just kind of started wandering around because we had read that it was very that it was almost like going to a museum. And that is exactly what it was. Every or a lot of, not every, but tombstone was designed as a sculpture. Right. And it was it's the only time that I you know, you always feel something when you go into a cemetery, but usually you're going to see somebody that you know that's been there, right? Or a famous person, or you know, something. Uh we had no history, this, we had no nothing. And I got totally teary because some of them were so emotional and so like you would just look at the statue's face, and it was like just absolutely heart-wrenching. And it was, and there were children, there were some uh people from COVID. I mean, it was it was insanely emotional and beautiful and sad. I mean, it I don't know. It was just it, it was something that I've never experienced before. And it's a little bit outside of city center, it's all the way to the north, but it's it's not difficult to get there. But and it's you know, not an easy thing to do because it's like, you know, you say you're going to a city, a lot of people don't want to go to a cemetery, but it is really it is really something special. And and I I a hundred percent understand how weird that is to say, but it really is. And I don't I don't I can't really say anything more about that because it's something you kind of have to see for yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I should go. You should go. I'm gonna let you talk about the next one because again, I didn't do this.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so Santa Maria della Grazia and The Last Supper. So the the church is right adjacent to where the Last Supper is, and it is a Dominican convent and the church complex, and it's a World Heritage Site. You know, we all know what the Last Supper looks like, and it takes up, it's the fresco that takes up the whole wall in there. Now I will say a couple of things about going. Tickets go on sale, I think it's 30 days in advance to when so like you would go if you wanted to go on December 30th, you would have to buy tickets on November 30th. That is set in stone, and those dates will sell out. So you have to plan very, very, very well of your timing, of what time tickets actually go on sale and what time zone you're in, and what date you need to buy for. Tickets sell out immediately. If you don't do that, you can go on one of the other sites, which is what we ended up doing because I did not plan accordingly. And so we got tickets for it's like I think it was get your guide, where it was a very small group of people. She was our tour guide. She took us in, you know, we I think we got to spend 15 minutes in front of the fresco, but we also did a little quick tour of the church. But it was nice because it was not, you know, it was very limited entry, and we got a little history and then a little time alone with the artwork. But it's, you know, it's it's one of the most famous things ever. So you have to see it. You have to, you know, experience it. You just have to plan very, very, very, very well. It's still very vibrant, or is it it is, but you know, they have to be a little bit careful about the lighting and stuff because I mean it's it's what it was in finished in 1498. Yeah. So I mean, you know, you I'm sure that plenty of restoration has happened over the years. But yeah, I mean, it still takes your breath away.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

But it is, it's, you know, it's dim in the room. It's not easy to like, obviously you can't use flash photography, but it's not even really that easy to take pictures because of the lighting not being great and all of that. But yeah, I mean, you know, it goes without saying that's that's something you just can't you can't miss. You just have to, like I said, you have to plan accordingly and you may have to be a little flexible.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Well, I found some facts about it. All right. The Last Supper survived World War II bombing in 1943 when the refractory was destroyed around it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And the wall with the painting were made standing due to protect due to protective sandbags and scaffolding. Oh, wow. So they protected it. And then the weird fact is Leonardo da Vinci worked so slowly and irregularly on this Last Supper that the prior of the convent formally complained to the Duke of Milan about Leonardo's long pauses and inconsistent schedule.

SPEAKER_01:

So they were just like, get that guy out of here?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Like, what's this slow guy doing? He's too slow. So that's gonna lead us to one of the main reasons we always went to Milan was for the Christmas markets. Right. And like I said, the majority of it is right there in the Piazza Duomo. And they're smaller than most Christmas markets. Yeah, but still impressive. Maybe in Torino.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a couple blocks. I mean, it's not, it just kind of wraps around the back of the Duomo. So, I mean, it's a pretty, it's a decent sized market.

SPEAKER_00:

And sometimes if you're there, you might see roller skating Santas.

SPEAKER_01:

Didn't we talk about that on the Christmas market podcast? We may have, yeah. But yeah, I mean, all we're shopping, and it was all three of my sisters were with us, and all of a sudden we hear this like hooting and hollering, and we turn around, and there is just like a mob of Santas on roller skates like coming down the middle.

SPEAKER_00:

So the last thing we're gonna talk about is something that you have to talk about for every Italian place. It's food. Now I'm not gonna put we're not gonna talk about specific restaurants on here. I'm working on a whole restaurant guide because Milan is just like covered with great food. So we're just gonna talk about what Milanese food is.

SPEAKER_01:

And traditions there. So it's because it's in the north, it's a little bit colder. So you get a little bit more of the hearty filling food a little bit more than you do when you're in more southern places in Italy. So that includes the use of butter, which is not that common in the rest of Italy. Instead of olive oil in a lot of cases or a lot of traditional dishes, some people will use butter and it's not frowned upon. It would be in a lot of places.

SPEAKER_00:

It's really good. Like with the risotto a melanese, it's finished with butter. The cotiletta, which is my favorite. It's vien or schnitzel in other parts of the world, but it's cotiletta al melanese in Italy. Which is uh veal? Yeah. It's it's it's basically breaded and fried veal. Okay. It's like a chicken cutlet, but it's like chicken fried steak. Kind of, which I grew up with in Oklahoma. Which I still don't know what that is. It's exactly what it sounds like. Chicken fried steak. And then the osabuko is often started but was searing it with butter instead of oil.

SPEAKER_01:

Which I don't think I really know what that is either. Is that just marrow?

SPEAKER_00:

Osabuco? Well, it's the whole piece of meat that has the bone in it with the marrow.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. But yeah, the risotto rice is grown between Torino and Milan.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I have a funny story about that. Remember when we would drive between Torino and Milan? If we went that way with the rice rice alley, I guess, the car would just be covered in dead bugs. Is that what you were gonna say?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, okay. So go ahead, because you're not gonna be. No, it's fine. But so it's it's very, very local, and you know, it's literally right outside of Milan is where the they grow it. So it's it's very local, very fresh, and very common to get risotto in Milan.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I I really like the risotto al salto. Have you had that? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, risotto or the food in Milan Like I tend to just go like order more outside of Milan because if the food is a little bit more like not my vibe. Yeah. So I don't know what I haven't tried most of these things.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you wouldn't like it because it's also kind of fried to make it crispy rice. Yeah. The risotto melonese is basically a saffron risotto, so it's kind of got the paella vibe, right?

SPEAKER_01:

All Italians just keeled over. I will say that two of my favorite Italian things are from Milan, though.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I know what you're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01:

The panettone, which is, I think we've talked about before, which is the Christmas cake that we love. And then columba, which is the Easter holiday cake, which is also delicious.

SPEAKER_00:

So good, so good. I mean cheese, they have you know well, I will I'll say also that my favorite salami is Milanese salami, and I don't know why, but I just it's hands down, it's what I will always pick up if I'm picking up salami. So try that. They also have a cheese, they gorgonzola is from Milan, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Lamberty, yeah. And they tend to use the grana pedano instead of parmesan, which I we need to look up the difference between the two of them because I don't really know what the difference is between Parmesana and I have I do Grana Padano. You do? Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Grana Padano is not technically Parmesan, though it's very similar, high quality hard cheese from the same family. Both are DOP protected, cow's milk cheeses with granular textures, but grana pedano is aged for less time. It's age the minimum is nine months, tastes milder and creamier, and is produced over a wider region.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's probably cheaper.

SPEAKER_00:

That yes, it is. Well, I've bought the the other I've bought the grana. What?

SPEAKER_01:

The grana?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I bought the grana pedano before, and you said, Oh, that's not parmesan, we can't use it. Do you remember that? Here. Well, here's a different story because God knows where that's the thing that says Parmesan's probably not Parmesan either.

SPEAKER_01:

But there's also like wait, are we done with food?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01:

There's also obviously a lot of events in Milan to keep an eye out for. Obviously, the fashion world is ginormous there. And the fashion weeks, both in fall and spring, are, you know, huge. Huge something, like unlike anywhere else in the world. But it's a, you know, it's an enormous, very alive city where there's lots of stuff going on, lots of things to investigate. Around every turn, there's, you know, spe little special restaurants and little special shops, and then you have these huge, ginormous things like the Duomo, you know, where you could spend all day, but you need to plan those ahead. But but and also the surrounding area of Milan is, you know, you could base out of Milan and do Como and do Bergamo and do the Dolomiti. Torino. Torino. So it's just it's a really interesting place that I do think on some levels gotten a bad rap, but I love it. I I think that it's amazing. All right. Any final thoughts on Milano?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I just want to go back now.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. Hopefully, I am soon.

SPEAKER_00:

We're having some homesickness for Italy. So hopefully we'll be back soon. Crossing our fingers. All right. Well, thanks for listening. Check out the website www.thegetawayswithz.com. And also we just started a substack, which we're going to keep rolling hotel lists and restaurant lists and activity lists updated all the time. But it's being populated now. So but go ahead and subscribe and subscribe and like the podcast because it helps with everything.

SPEAKER_01:

It helps with all of our things.

SPEAKER_00:

Um thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01:

We will see you next time. Bye. Bye.