RV LIFE Podcast

Campground Dreams, Towing Confidence and Classic Restorations - RV LIFE 158

• RV LIFE • Episode 158

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From a campground revival in upstate New York to smarter towing, RV dealership growth, and vintage Airstream restoration, this episode delivers practical insight, business perspective, and a strong reminder that craftsmanship and community still matter in RV life.

  • Discover how a new owner is renovating a classic New York campground, building community, and creating rally weekends for modern RVers. 
  •  Learn practical towing advice on fifth wheels, sway control, hitch setup, and the maintenance mistakes that can cause major trouble. 
  •  Hear how one Canadian dealership grew through customer-first service and why destination camping is rising again. 
  •  See why vintage Airstream owners wait years for expert restorations that bring craftsmanship and old trailers back to life.

John talks with John Thatcher about buying Shady Oaks Camping Resort in Plattsburgh, New York, renovating an older campground, and building a strong seasonal camping community.

Then Jim and Rene sit down with towing expert Dave Helgeson for practical advice on fifth wheels versus travel trailers, sway, hitch setup, and must-do brake and bearing maintenance.

Rose and Glynn speak with Keith Barrick about growing one of Canada’s fastest-growing RV dealerships, customer-first sales, and launching a new destination resort project.

Plus, Bob talks with Jim Roy of Silver Moose Restorations about custom Airstream rebuilds, long waitlists, and the craftsmanship behind every restoration.

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Cold Open Highlights

SPEAKER_04

Along with it being a beautiful place to visit, the people are really what make it special.

SPEAKER_09

So fifth wheel is inherently a more stable platform. So seasonal is now very sought after because of the price of fuel.

SPEAKER_11

All the older ones have most damage. We rip everything out and start fresh. RV life, RV Life.

ROSE

RV Life. RV Life, RV Life, RV Life Podcast.

JIM

And we're back with the RV Life Podcast. Jim here.

RENE

And I'm Renee. Thanks for joining us. We've got another really interesting mix for you today. You'll hear travel inspiration, practical tone advice, and get a look at business growth in the RV industry. Plus, we've got a story that just shows just how much craftsmanship really matters in this lifestyle.

JIM

Right, lots to cover here. So let's dive in. First up, John takes us to New York's North Country, where a new campground owner is bringing fresh energy to a classic camping destination near the Canadian border.

RENE

Then we sit down with towing expert Dave Helgison for one of those conversations every RVer can learn from. Whether you've been towing for years or you're still building confidence behind the wheel.

JIM

And Rose and Glenn talk with RV entrepreneur Keith Barrick, whose dealership growth story is impressive on its own, but who's also expanding into the campground side of the industry with a new resort project.

RENE

And Bob wraps things up with Jim Roy from Silvermoose Restorations, whose custom airstream restoration work has earned a following from RVers all over the country.

JIM

So whether you're planning your next destination, trying to tow a little smarter, thinking bigger about the business side of RVing, or just love seeing old rigs brought back to life, this episode has something for you. All right, let's get to it. Right. This time, John is talking with John Batcher from Shady Oaks Camping Resort in Plattsburgh, New York.

RENE

This is a fun conversation about taking a big leap, buying a campground, renovating an older property for modern RVers, and building a real sense of community in a beautiful corner of the Northeast.

Buying And Reviving A Campground

SPEAKER_01

Take it away, John. So thanks everybody and welcome back to the RV Life Podcast, the destination segment of our show. And my name is John DePietro, and I'm here with a very special guest. And I say very special because he's one of the several people that has responded to an earlier opportunity to tell your story here on the RV Life Podcast. Tell us why campers and RVers from all over the United States and all over the world for that fact should consider camping at their location. And we want to welcome John Thatcher from Shady Oaks Camping Resort in the hamlet of Plattsburgh, New York, almost in Canada. John, welcome to uh the RV Life Podcast. Thanks, John. It's great to be here. Cool. So what we want to do is find out a little bit about your camping background and whatever caused you to number one, start camping to begin with. And um, secondly, why you wanted to own a campground. So the microphone is yours, John.

SPEAKER_04

Great. So, you know, transparently I wasn't a big camper uh growing up. I a handful of camping trips here and there with my family. My parents had uh had a camper. Uh, and then as I got older, they sort of retired into it. They have a camper now, they often travel south in the winter. So I was around it, but I wasn't living it myself until just a few years ago, uh, where I was, I think, along with a lot of people inspired by how many people went full-time in their RVs post-COVID. I decided to leave my career in education, went myself on a long road trip, and while I was on that road trip, uh, I bought a camper. While I was on that road trip with the camper, I bought a campground.

SPEAKER_01

Road trips really give you the opportunity to, you know, when you're behind the wheel and you're, you know, in a foreign, not a foreign area, but in a different area than you're used to, to let your mind wander about, well, you know what? Just what if? What if, what if? And you were one of those smart enough people to take your what if and put it into action and turn it into the ownership of campground. Is it more than you expected, less than you expected? Are you searching for a way out of it? Or definitely not. You know, tell us what you're doing with it.

SPEAKER_04

I in a lot of ways it's a hard question. I think it's uh I don't know yet. I think it's been different than I expected, and it's been challenging and harder in a lot of ways than I expected. Humbling and it's and a lot and also a lot more than I expected in terms of, you know, I I bought this campground relatively close to my hometown, and this was a little bit of like a re-entry to uh the north country of New York, and it has overwhelmed me how many people have been supportive um of some of the yeah, and uh just the community that's already, you know, we're about 18 months into this, and I like to consider last year 2025 our first season because uh we the acquisition closed in August of 2024. So we really didn't have we closed immediately and started renovating. But I have been overwhelmed and just like delighted by the the people who have supported this effort to renovate this old quirky campground and support me, you know, a small business owner. Um you know, the the North Country, for those who have been, know that it's a special place. Um and the people are really, you know, along with it being a beautiful place to visit, the people are really what make it special. And so it's reminded me of how great of a place I grew up in.

SPEAKER_01

And basically, if you take 87 down, it runs right into 95 and right around New York City. And you can take it all the way down to uh Miami before you jump on Route One and head to Key West.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know, from one of the northernmost points in the United States to the southernmost point. As far as surprises are concerned, let's look at the audience that you've been able to attract. You're surprised with the number of families, are you surprised with the number of single people? Are you surprised with the number of retired people? Are you surprised with the number of people that are still young but able to make a living on the road because of the result of COVID? So none of them.

SPEAKER_04

Actually, what I've been surprised by is the seasonal community that's been because what I didn't know, I didn't grow up as a seasonal camper at a campground. And most of our seasonal campers, those who stay with us from we when we open May 1st to when we close on October 15th, they're within maybe 20 minutes of the campground.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so this is like their second home kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. And I I didn't expect that. And I think on the I think the first year has was so much about just infrastructure. You know, we did a lot of work, and that was a huge surprise all and of itself. Uh but just to to improve and kind of get to a place where we could compete with modern standards at campgrounds. And that being said, like I didn't we didn't see as much traffic off the road last year as was I hope future years we will, and we've I think we've got a strategy going into year two to bring people to Plattsburgh, to bring people to Shady Oaks. We're doing a series of seven different rallying camp out weekends.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I saw that. That was one of my questions because you have really gone overboard with those special interest groups. Um we can talk about those in just a moment, but um I I wanted to follow up with you said the seasonal people live nearby. So they're not necessarily people from another part of the country that are parking their rig there for the season. That live within a distance and come there on weekends that might still be working.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, correct. Yeah, they live at the campground from May to October, which is awesome. It has created this this you know small but really strong community. Uh and I've been really lucky. Like I said, there are like North Country people who are, I think, more protective of the business and the brand and what we hope Shady Oaks will become than than I am. And it's it's really gratifying.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And when you say the northern country, you're talking the tip of New York, basically adjacent to Canada.

SPEAKER_04

Correct. Yeah, we are 20 minutes south of the Canadian border. I can get to Montreal for dinner in about an hour or less. We're very close to Montreal.

SPEAKER_01

And I would think it would be uh interesting to say that uh this is the year to head for the northern part of the U.S. if you want, because a trip across that border is 40 percent in your pocket.

SPEAKER_04

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Advantageous for for us traveling north for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. As far as uh number of sites and what you hope to have the trans the division between seasonal and I hate to use the word transient because that has a negative connotation, but yeah, short-term or overnight yes. Yep. Vacationers, what is your plan that way?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So as the campground sits right now, we have infrastructure for 103 sites. The breakdown that uh we're gonna land this year is about 75 seasonal sites, and then the remaining sites will be uh our overnight sites, short-term sites, and then we do have one glamping tent, a geodome tent, and then one of those sites, uh, which occupies one of the sites, and then we also have an RV rental starting this year. It's coming online in the spring, and that'll occupy one site as well.

SPEAKER_01

So even if you don't own an RV but want to enjoy the R V lifestyle, you've got a unit that is rentable, that type thing. How about at two in the morning? Are you hearing the interstate or are you hearing quiet?

SPEAKER_04

It's quiet. Yeah, it's quiet. And you're seeing the stars, uh, which is you know, we're t 10 minutes just we're half a mile off 87 and we're ten minutes from downtown Plattsburgh. So you wouldn't being so close to everything, you wouldn't expect that it feels but what's you know, we're in next all of our neighbors are, you know, it's farm country, so it's it's quiet, it's quiet and dark.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I think there's a tendency when when people from other parts of the country here in New York, the first thing they think of is Manhattan. And you are farther away from Manhattan than anything imaginable. Actually, you know, once you get up to Albany. Uh whatever. But you're not that far from Saratoga. So for the summertime, you've got the horse season there and the big national park. The thing I remember most about Adirondack National Park is they have bear-proof trash containers.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, very common.

SPEAKER_01

So the bears can't get in and tip over the trash.

SPEAKER_04

We've not had one bear sighting at Shady Oaks yet. I just want to be transparent about that.

Rallies That Bring New Campers

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Well, I'm glad to he glad you say that because two weeks ago when we were in Florida, we did have the uh park ranger warn us that bear sightings had taken place. And sure enough, our neighbor had mentioned that uh three or four sights over, a bear came over and uh took somebody's crock pot right out of their uh right out of the picnic table that was right right there, but whatever. So what the plans for the future as far as growth is concerned and renovation and renewal, what are the big things that the industry that you'll have to have to do to stay current?

SPEAKER_04

I think one of the things, you know, the campground the original campground opened late 70s, early eighties, and I think a lot of the work we've done in the last 18 months has been trying to make an old footprint work for you know modern rigs. And we are big rig friendly. It's uh definitely a quirky old campground, but we do have a handful of sites that can fit bigger rigs, and I think to answer your question, that's one of the things that we know we've got to figure out as we scale and grow. The whole property's on almost forty-five acres. We occupy right now only thirteen of Oh, so you got plenty of room. Yeah, if there's demand, we will grow. That's the intention. And and that's something we want to get right in the growth is how do we make sure that we're you know, I don't I don't want to lose the appeal of this this there is something really charming, I think, about how the campground's laid out, it's rolling hills. You know, it i i I don't see a lot of new campgrounds designed this way. I want to keep that, but also uh make sure that we can, you know, meet the demands of any guests that stay and I think if you go to the website, which is what?

SPEAKER_01

Shadyoakscampingresort.com am I right?

SPEAKER_04

Uh shadyoakscamping.com.

SPEAKER_01

Shadyoakscamping.com. There's some aerial shots that show the spaciousness of the sites. And one more question to you. As an independent owner, is your plan to be on site as much as possible, greeting campers, walking through the campsites, that type thing, or are you going to be stuck in an office and not accessible?

SPEAKER_04

I intend to be out there. That's like why I got into this. I um I'm a native of the North Country. I grew up in the Adirondacks in Teconderoga. Part of the mission here is really two things that really matter to me. One is getting people to visit the Adirondacks, um, and two is building community. And so that the focus here is for me, the thing that makes this worthwhile is meeting people who are visiting and getting to tell the story of my hometown and and this region.

SPEAKER_01

There we go. And we teased a little bit before you said you've got you've got a number of rallies, special interest group rallies. Tell us a little bit about this.

SPEAKER_04

We do. We have seven different rallies planned this year, uh, starting with a van life rally at the end of May, um, and then tiny trailer rally in July. Our most popular one so far is a vintage camper rally, which is sold out at the end of June. And we're doing a car show as a fundraiser for the local Relay for Life that Saturday as well. Um, an airstream rally, a rally or a campo for new RVers. Um, thinking there's a demographic of people that would like to kind of come out and try out a camper, or even if they've had it a couple of years but don't feel totally confident, you know, surrounding them with people who have been in the space for a long time, have a lot of experience and giving people the opportunity to share that experience with newcomers. Um and then we have um a fall camp out, a fall colors camp out as well later in the year.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and the fall colors up there are spectacular. Spectacular. So, John Thatcher, we want to thank you so much for taking time from your busy schedule to speak with us here on the RV Life Podcast. Give us that uh website one more time. It's uh shadyoakscamping.com. Shadyoakscamping.com. And I know that you will enjoy it when you visit them in the uh upcoming camping season. This is the RV Life Podcast. My name is John DePetro. Thank you for joining us.

RENE

That was such a good reminder of how the best campground stories come from people who are still actively shaping what these places can become.

Why Towing Confidence Matters

JIM

And I really liked hearing how much thought is going into creating not just campsites but experiences and community around them.

RENE

Next up, Dave Halgeson joins us again for a topic that matters to just about everybody towing an RV how to do it better, safer, and with more confidence.

JIM

We talk through the real-world differences between fifth wheels and travel trailers, and some of the most common towing mistakes new owners make. You'll hear how hitched setup matters more than most people think, and the maintenance tasks that are easy to overlook until they become a real big problem.

RENE

Dave's got the kind of experience that makes you want to take notes, which I hope you did, Jim.

Fifth Wheel Versus Travel Trailer

JIM

Uh yeah, here's our conversation with Dave. Dave, welcome back. Thanks so much for joining us again. Glad to be here.

RENE

Dave, you are the towing king. Anytime I have had questions or wanted to explore the topic of towing, you are the man. And I think that's because you've had a lot of years of towing experience, right?

SPEAKER_07

A lot of years. My my grandparents had a trap travel trailer dealership that started in 1937. Uh my parents worked into that. I I started working there. My first gig was eight years old, paid job there. I before I even had a driver's license, I was moving units around the lot, pitching them up for customers. Uh yeah, I I I I tell people I was born into the travel trailer industry. I don't know anything else.

JIM

So you probably hold a lot of RVs, both fifth wheels, travel trailers, but I think we'll probably be focusing mostly mostly on travel trailers, since I think both of us have kind of most experience there, right? Yeah. Lots of experiences. Some fifth wheels, uh, yeah.

RENE

Yeah. Uh fifth wheels, speaking of fifth wheels, well, we went from having a fifth wheel for 16 years to a travel trailer during the last year and a half. And it's a different experience. It is for sure.

JIM

So for new RVers, maybe they're not having bought their rig yet. One of the things that I contemplated 18 years ago, fifth wheel or trailer. Is one easier to haul than the other? I got my own opinion about that. Is one what what benefits are there? You mentioned having truck space. That's one. So let's talk fifth wheel versus trailer for a minute.

SPEAKER_07

So fifth wheel is inherently a more stable platform because the the weight's been introduced over the axle, so it doesn't have that leverage for the axle back of the travel, so it's can't wag the dog nearly as easily. It's stable, so you won't you won't get sway. It's yeah, you lose your bed space. Now, towing forward-wise, the nice thing is you if you have an eight-foot bed or you have an adjustment self-adjusting hitch, you could never jackknife it theoretically, if you're set up correctly. So you can take really sharp corners from a travel trailer. If you're not paying attention, you can put your bumper into your A-frame or in the body of the trailer, depending on how long your your stinger is on your hitch. Fifth wheels will cut the corner a little more when you're going forward since that pivot points up farther. So you got to be paying more pay more attention when you're turning uh going forward, swing wider to make sure that doesn't happen. And also people say, well, they're easier to back. And I'll I'll argue that one all day long. Because again, since you don't have the leverage of from the the axle to back to the hit, you got to move the whole truck under the nose of the fifth wheel before the fifth wheel will respond. So a trailer is easier, in my opinion, to back up. And I'll I'll take anybody fifth wheel to trailer and in the field, and I'll I'll I'll win that bet. We've seen many people with fifth wheels in in more primitive campgrounds, they can't hit the space. I watch it repeatedly. It's like you just they can't get the truck moved over enough to get the fifth wheel to respond. But again, you can jack once you get going, you can jackknife it really tight. But you got to get that turn started. It takes more effort to get the turn started. You mentioned bed space, that's a big one for us. We have a motorcycle and A TV that we can take with us. We have to have an eight-foot bed to make them fit, so we close the tailgate and get the trailer on behind. We contemplated a toy hauler several times. Maybe we could go fifth wheel. The problem is we can't always ride our machines from where we can. So that would require if we can't legally ride the machines from where we drop have a fifth-wheel toy hauler, we can't use them. Where if they're in the truck, we can drop the travel trailer, we can go to the official trailhead, unload the machines, and go from there. So there's pros and cons to both sides, but the big biggest one for us is the the bed space and the ability to still have the truck to take our machines there. So you gotta weigh it out how you're gonna how you're gonna use it. Um it sounds like a lot of personal preference. Some people don't want to give up their bed space.

JIM

Um if they're that's a good point. It sounds like it's a personal preference. And you mentioned you know, the travel trailer might be easier to turn and back up. I'd argue that it's more responsive. So it almost to the point where it's squirrely if you've been having the fifth wheel for 15 years. So in my case, I did the fifth wheel for 16 years and just recently moved, you know, for the past year moved to a travel trailer, can 100% attest to the difference the first time I hit wind on the highway. I had never felt that in my fifth wheel, it was much more stable with that weight over the truck. So there's kind of pros and cons both way, but I'm starting to get the hang of things.

RENE

I like having the truck bed now after all these years. I get to carry more stuff.

Hitching Mistakes That Cost Thousands

JIM

Well, we put a truck camper on so we can have best of both worlds. Now you can have a trailer and a little hub and spoke travel with the camper. But this all comes down to um personal preference and experience, which leads to mistakes. You know, I made my mistakes first of all. We never had any serious damage done, but I banged up my truck bed with the fifth wheel and almost really damaged a brand new travel trailer. You know, but during, you know, you can make mistakes either during hitching up or driving. What are maybe if you can remember way back, what was one of the biggest makes mistakes you made when first starting out and trying to haul something?

SPEAKER_07

Well, before I I covered that, I'll tell you the tug test on the fifth wheels. A lot of people will not make sure they're hitching secure. They'll pull out, they'll drop it on their bed. See it numerous times. So the tug test is don't raise your jacks all the way, leave a couple inches on the ground, hook it up, grab your brake control, try to pull forward, save you thousands of dollars and a tailgate of the sides of your beds. Biggest one for me, wait, we my parents had had travel trains all sizes. We had it from little ones could be pulled behind motorcycles up to big travel trains. Probably my biggest bonehead was we had this little, it was probably a 12 foot, it was a little pop-up cat, only like five feet wide, taking it to a show 30 miles away. Well, I couldn't see it in my mirrors. And I had two setup crew with me. We're driving down the road. I forgot it was back there. So we got where we're going. I went to back up for get us back there. I and as you know, small trailers respond really quickly as you just put it out because you have that leverage. I instantly jackknifed it, damaged my truck and the trailer. So that that was probably my biggest mistake with a with a trailer and a truck. What do you think are the true there, wasn't paying attention, threw it in reverse, and it came around. So you gotta know your equipment, but what do you think are some of the more common mistakes by newbies? Not getting the on the travel trailer, not getting the coupler all the way on the ball. Sometimes the coupler won't flip back, they'll lower it down, the weights get right on top of the ball, but the coupler's not engaged. First bump on the road. Now, if they're lucky with equalizing bars, they got a lot of tension on it, it might stay. Otherwise, first bump on the road and your check can knock your safety chains real quick. That's what they make sure it's the coupler is on and latched. Theoretically, again, if you have equalizing bars, once you're hooked on, you're gonna be raising that tongue jack back up to take the weight off. So you can put snap on bars. That the truck should come up with it. It will save you the grief right there. So that that's a big one. And we mentioned the tug tests on fifth wheels, making sure that the fifth wheel kig pin is engaged on the pin, that it's not gonna pull out as soon as you hit down the road. I've seen it all.

Weight Distribution Hitches Demystified

JIM

So I bet. So tell us I luckily never dropped the trailer, the fifth wheel onto the bed of the truck. It was more about you know, tight spots and bending in the wrong position. But now that we have a travel trailer, you mentioned equalization and bars and chains. Talk to us uh briefly about the equipment there and which preference you have for the type of system that will prevent sway of the trailer and take weight off your truck.

RENE

I have an article for that.

SPEAKER_07

Who do you? It's an article for that. It could be it could be a book. Because people use use the word sway bars all day long. And they're not always sway bars, they're equalizing bars that do nothing to control sway. And that was one of my pet peeves years growing up. That's not a sway bar, that is an equalizing bar. Get your terms right. Uh yeah, if unless you've got a one tut truck, you pull like a 17 foot trailer, odds are you're gonna want an equalizing bar. Hit. It smooths out the ride. It takes some of the weight off the off the back of the truck, and the trailer redistributes roughly half of it to the trailer, the other half to the front. Well, good portion where the front axle is a trailer. Back in the 70s when they had the Toronado, which was a front-wheel drive car, Easy Lift had an ad to where they took they snapped up the hitch and they could take the rear tires off the Toronado and drive it in front wheel drive because they take so much weight off the back of the car. That was one of the great you guys get the point across to people. Here's why you need one. So if you're squatting at all, equalizing hitch, if you go on the highway without an equalized hitch, you're purposing on the expansion joints, equalizing hitch will keep that drop from happening in between there. So that's the main focus of an equalized hitch, is take some of that weight back on the trailer, off the back truck, and on the front drive wheels. That's the other thing. If you're too light on the back, too heavy in the back, your front end lightens up and you you minimize your steering to where you can wash out or have problems in wet weather, and your headlights may be aiming way too high. So equalize hit. Now, sway in the article I wrote back when I was 12 years old, and we send the customers' cars out for hitches, because there weren't many trucks that were pulling stuff back then. You'd either get an equalizer, typically an easy lift hitch or a Reese product. The equalizer brand was on the market, but I think they're selling factor direct only. I don't remember many dealers handling them. So that was really the only two choices. And as they were designed with the chains that equalize and they were strictly equalizers. Then you put on a friction sway control later. Later, Reese came at the dual cam. Now you got all sorts of equalized hitches that deal with sway. I was recently running a um Camco R6 until I wore it out. And I I mentioned the motorcycle and the quadrant back. I just upgraded to a 2025 Tundra, eight-foot bed, but it's a little soft. The older one was leaf spring, this one is got coil springs. I'm having a hard time bringing it up into level. So I couldn't, some of the adjusters were frozen on the R6, so I thought I'm going back to a good old easy lift hitch with the chains. No sway control built in on it, where the R6 had the friction built into that. Because now when I have the dirt bike and the quad, I can easily put more tension on the equalizing bars to level the trailer and the truck. When I'm not hauling the quad and the bike in the back, which probably weighs 600 pounds, I don't need as much tension. So I can easily go between tensions without readjusting the hitchhead on an R6 or many other brands. So the next thing I want to say on sway is too often the cause of sway can be addressed without friction or without sway control. Um too many times it's put on as a band-aid. People say, Oh, I got a really bad sway problem. Well, have you weight your tongue weight to see what your tongue weight is? It's probably too light. And rather than adjust that and fix that, which can be a serious and problem on the road, they throw switch and tray control, or they'll throw two on, one on each side. I've always been a bad idea. Understand why you have sway. Now, in your case, you mentioned trucks going by or wind. That's that's a good job for sway control. I'm so comfortable. You know, we're only pulling a 25-foot travel trailer on it, and we got an eight-foot truck, extended cab truck. So we have a big platform in front of it. It's harder to play with than an SUV or something that's got a short wheelbase. So I'm comfortable without running sway control because I know my tongue weights where it should be. I understand if a truck comes up on me, I'm gonna get sucked over, but I'm watching my mirrors, I know it's coming. Uh, so right now I'm I'm running out of sway control because it's so much easier to adjust my tension depending on what loads in my truck. Uh so that's two things. We have equalizing bars, you have equalizing bars with sway control built in, either from friction cams or in the head, uh, or you'll you'll have a standard equalizing hitch, and you'll put on a friction sway control set. But know why you have sway or what's causing it before you just spend a bunch of money to cover it up.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

JIM

So that helps you identify which gear you might need. And you mentioned sway equalization, but also weight distribution. So I was impressed with the physics involved once I got a new travel trailer with a weight distribution hitch and how I had to jack everything up way high with the truck, and then when it came back, the it distributes weight forwards. Do chains distribute weight or only work on the equalization?

SPEAKER_07

The chains, well, the chains you need to tensure the bar on the equalizing bar if you have one of the chains. And you said it puts weight in front. Because we used to tell people it's like a wheelbarrow. You're the bars, or you're picking up that wheelbarrow and making the nose of the wheelbow get out, or your truck nose down in the back. Then when you hook the chain, when you touch that chain onto the frame, it's actually taking that weight and putting it back, some of it back on the trailer.

JIM

Got it.

SPEAKER_07

So the set it up both ways on that. Uh, but as that is designed, it doesn't do anything for sway. It it can secondary because you're not loading the truck properly with weight, but it's not doing anything to control side-to-side oscillation at the hitch point.

RENE

And that's a pretty scary thing to have happen. Uh, I mean, knock on wood. It hasn't happened to us on the highway, but we have seen trailers do that.

How To Stop Sway Safely

SPEAKER_07

There's videos online where you can find we got out-of-control sway, and it gets worse. Now we're on that subject. I think it was another topic in a minute. Manual sway control, manual brake control. If you ever are heading down a hill and you get that uncontrollable sway, do not panic and hit the foot brake. What's happening is the trailer's trying to push the truck, gently reach down and pull the manual sway control over, excuse me, manual brake control over until the trailer is now trying to pull the truck backwards. That will straighten you right out. If it doesn't immediately are supplying the brake controller, step on the gas a little bit on the tow vehicle. That will try to make the whole thing stretch out in one line, but never just panic and hit the brakes. Always reach down, gently pull on the brake, and I'll straighten out. The one time I ever got stuck with scary sway, you know, I had a dealership. We went out and bought like a 16-foot use travel trailer one night. My wife and I went out and got it. He says, Oh, here you want the equalizing hitch and the bars. And I took the battery out. Well, this happened to be a rear door trailer. I just threw the hitch equipment and the battery at the in the rear door at the very back of a single axle trailer. We're driving home the freeway, and I hate to confess this on live thing. Hey, the taillights work, but I didn't have any brakes. It's a 16-foot trailer. I'm pulling a three-quarter ton, right? I'm good. Well, we started down first hill in the freeway and it started swaying because I'd thrown all that weight in the back. Now the tongue weight was too light. I did not have a brake control to grab. So what did I do? Luckily it wasn't long. I sped up to pull things straight out. It was no longer when I got on the next uphill sink. I pulled over on the shoulder, took the hitch and the batteries. I can't remember if I put them all the way up front in the trailer or put them in the truck. I think I threw them all the way up front of the trailer to bring the tongue weight up problem solved. Interesting.

RENE

Wow. Even Dave made a mistake like that. I guess I guess the key is no shortcuts.

SPEAKER_07

It was late. It was dark. I wasn't going, you know, you get you get sloppy. Late and dark. We weren't going that far. I wasn't going to worry about the brakes. I had enough truck in front of me to stop it, but not I didn't have a way to control the sway. But luckily I knew to speed up, the trailer wasn't trying to push me anymore. I took notes there.

RENE

Yeah, that thank you. Because that is one thing that just doesn't come naturally when you think, how am I going to get out of this? Oh, let me speed up. That seems really counterintuitive.

SPEAKER_07

You're scared you're going to speed up.

Brakes And Bearings Are Nonnegotiable

RENE

Yeah. No busy. I do have a link to a really great article that you wrote, and I'll put that in the show notes, but it is about that very topic. Dave, let's talk about travel trailer maintenance. What do you think are the most crucial maintenance tasks that owners need to do? Things that we tend to overlook. And what are what are the solutions to that?

SPEAKER_07

When it comes to towing, the number one thing, I I still to my day hear my dad telling people when he's I was learning to sell stuff. You know, the nice thing about a trailer, travel trailer, if the wheels go round and round and stops, it's never going to strand you. And that is brakes and bearings is the number one maintenance thing when it comes to towing that gets overlooked. People out of sight, out of mind, uh until something goes wrong. You know, nowadays we have what is the easy, we have the easy lube system, we have the never loop, axles. So everybody says, I don't have to mess with lubricating my axles anymore. And then we have even self-adjusting brakes on travel traders and fifth wheels. The problem that really bugs me though is nobody has a reason to go look what's inside their hub and rub anymore. So you don't know if your brake linings are shot, chunks have fallen off, your magnet retainers come off, or retainer pins are going to come off the actual. You have no idea what's going in there until it's too late. You either have a dry bearing, maybe something happened, the auto-loop system, until 20 flags say, hey, you have smoke coming off your right rear wheel, and you go back there and your hub's glowing orange. It's like problem, big problem. Or you find you want to hit the brakes and all of a sudden it wants to brake sideways because you have no brakes on one or two of the one side of the trailer and all the other side's doing all the work. I encourage everybody, even if you have an Everloop sift once a year, pay to have it done, do it yourself. Pull the hubs and drums, look in there, see what the brake shoes look like, look like the magnets look like, make sure everything's where it's supposed to be, but the actual norms freely swing and hasn't corroded up, especially if you don't tow a lot, that corrosion hasn't set in and that's jammed, that the wires are where they belong. Because again, if the wheels go round and round and stops, anything else can be furnished or something else you can get to a repair facility. But if you burn a bearing or you don't have sufficient braking to get anywhere you go, you're stuck on the side of the road.

RENE

Man, well, you know, we are in a relatively new, it's a 2024 Arctic Fox that we got a great deal on. It's brand new. And just this week, when we got to our location, I was thinking, you know, we need to look at the brakes, Jim. We haven't done that since we bought it.

JIM

I think it's been a full year.

RENE

It's been a full year. Even on a new trailer, that's something that sounds like it's super important.

JIM

And I have manually packed bearings in the old fifth wheel, so I know how to do that. And then in the newer systems, like you said, you got the grease buddies or whatever. One of the things can happen instead of going dry is a lot of people tend to over-grease them and they might pop out a seal, right?

SPEAKER_07

Yes. Especially the Everlube has a system, they've drilled the spindle so the pressure comes back up. But if you put on bearing buddies, you're correct. You're going to over-pressurize the system, you'll blow out the rear seal. Uh, and I one of the articles I put, I think about crawling under your rig, everybody looks on the roof, nobody looks underneath, is you go by underneath, oh, you got grease coming out the back of your your your drum, and that can also get in on your brakes and your brake shoes. So get on the magnet and get on the shoes. Also, you have no braking because you're host inside of that's covered with axle grease. So you need to get in there and look. It's not fun. I don't care for, you know, the tire and wheels are heavy to take off. But yeah, I I still once a year or before a big trip, if I'm going out of state, you know, I don't want to ruin a four-week vacation sidelined in Utah, a thousand miles from home when it's just I could have spent two an hour or two at home before we left to make sure everything's as it should be in there. You know, you mentioned breaks, I can take care of yeah.

Pre Trip Checks That Prevent Drama

JIM

You mentioned an important kind of annual to do there. And you also mentioned like on specific trips. So I wonder, do you have like a checklist before leaving with a trailer? Or and does that change depending on the distance of your trip?

SPEAKER_07

It kind of does. I covered part of that. So, you know, my wife has the great checklist for packing. And it depends if we're going riding or going gold prospecting, it varies, or we're going shellfishing. She has the physical checklist. Mine's more mental. You know, when I hook up, I hitched on, I'm ready to go. Make sure, you know, the steps are up. Now the newer ones with the fold upstairs, it's pretty hard to leave those out, but I still have physical steps that go in. Make sure the steps are up, the door is locked. I double check that I secured the hitch right, the coupler is locked and down, safety chains are on. I got the bars. I mean, I'm using easy lift bars to push all the way up in the latch and make sure the bars are all the way in their sockets. You make sure your turn signals, your marker lights, and your brake lights are working. And a couple tips here is a lot of people don't understand on American built RVs, which is basically everything in the United States, your turn signal and your brake light are the same filament. So I just I either have my key fob, I just chirp the truck. If the brake lights flash, it also means your turn signal is going to work because that signal is coming through from the truck. You can also throw on your hazard lights in it. And the new tunnel I found out it's got a trailer test display. You can hit a button and it will rotate through the tail lights, the circuit, the brake lights, it'll rotate so you can watch them all go through. So those you know those are good. Because again, you want to make sure your your signal lights are operating. You know, I just drove through downtown LA three weeks ago. And it's like I throw, I throw, I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that. So many times I'm wondering, is my turn signal not working, or is this guy just not knotting me over? Because you turn on, it's like sometimes they seem like they speed up. So I always like to make sure I I physically know it's working. Maybe this guy isn't just a friendly driver. So make sure those tail lights are working. Talked about the brake control a little bit already. When I when you plug in, most all new brake controls have an indicator like the circuit's been completed through the brake. It can measure the resistance, it just completes the circuit and says the trailer is hooked up. My new tunnel says trailer detected right on the dash. So you want to make sure your brakes are. We live on about an 18-degree hill. So as soon as I pull start down the hill, I grab the brake control and push it most all the way over to make sure the brakes are going to hit and they're going to hit hard. Another thing, we live in Western Washington, we have a lot of moisture in the air. If you just sounds that far, we've got a lot of salt there. Guess what? When your RV sits, your travel from their fifth sits, you have corrosion form on your brake drums. And you need to knock that off to get full, get them where they need to be. So I drag them all the way down the hill, make sure they're working. One side's not locking up, indicating maybe I have one brake that's not working, that they're breaking evenly. I drike that rust off, I'm good to go. Then I don't get on the freeway and first panic stop, I realize I don't have any brakes. So I I yeah. It's scary. Yeah, I listen. Or if I get in a sway situation, I know I can straighten out. But yeah, it's having no brakes, a travel trailer is no fun. And I hold another article, but I had a problem here a couple of years ago where they'd randomly drop out, which was yes.

RENE

I'm glad you're here to talk about it.

SPEAKER_07

Yes. You're scary, Renee. No, and I and again, I use some my guy read skills to work up a backup if they if I had to have a panic stop. I won't share that now, but if you ever want an article on our side story, I'll give it to you.

Practice Plans For Nervous Towers

RENE

Yeah, you know, Dave, we we could talk about this all day because it's a big deal. And it's a big deal. Um embarrassed. I am embarrassed to admit that I just I'm terrified to tow our trailer. I've never done it. We need to we need to wrap up our show here, but what are your best tips for somebody like me who's just completely terrified of doing this?

SPEAKER_07

So go find a box store that went out of business in your neighborhood. Big open asphalted lot, take some cones, carbour boxes, something if you run over, it's not gonna hurt, and set up yourself a slum course. Go forward and understand how tight the trailer is gonna cut corners going forward. Again, fifth wheels cut them more than travel trailer. Set up something to back up into, practice backing up on your blind side. If you have a backup camera on your travel trailer, fifth wheel, learn to look at that as well as use your mirrors. A big tip for those that are scared to backing up, hold your hand at the bottom of the wheel. If you want the back end to go left, take the wheel the way you want to track. If you want it to go the other way, turn it the other way. Don't be thinking, I got to turn right to go left. Don't overthink it. Hand at the bottom of the wheel. If you're looking in your mirrors, you want the back end of the trailer to go that way, take it towards that mirror, vice versa. Makes backing up so much easier. Uh you know, and realize, especially going straight, the trailer's gonna track home exactly where you are going. A lot of times I'll thread the needle between two semis. My wife's going, wow. But you know, if the truck fits, I I know the trailer's gonna follow. I don't have to look at my mirrors and I panic myself. The truck's clearing, the trailer's gonna clear, same thing going between obstacles. If you're going straight, you're good. So you just gotta learn, get comfortable with it. Again, I've been around them my whole life. I have no problem looking on a trailer on the road down the road. Practice, go to again, parking lot, big parking lot, where you can't damage thank cones, whatever you got for markers, practice, practice, practice. Keep your first trip short. Don't go, oh yeah, first trip, we're going 300 miles a day. Find a campground 20, 30 miles away, preferably on a four-lane road where if you're going slow, people aren't backing up behind you, they can pass freely pass you without sitting back to honking, so you won't get stressed going daylight hours to where you're not arriving in the dark or driving the dark and preferably in good weather. Don't add extra stress on your first driving trips. Close to home, familiar space. If you're totally a newbie, pull through, pull through space, so you're not even dealing with the backup part. Uh and I'm a big fan of Google Earth, as you probably know. Uh, you know, you can look at the whole route through Street View or on our Google Maps advance in advance and see what the whole route looks like, where I'm going to be turning. You get those visual clues in your head. Hey, there's a true turn lane here. I don't have to turn out of a drive traffic lane. You all said, man, I've already driven this route. I'm good. I know where I'm going. Even without onboard navigation, you've seen the route. You you're comfortable with it.

RENE

Yeah, definitely. Between that and the the RV life uh trip planner, I think you're pretty well set.

SPEAKER_07

And Jim, you mentioned fifth wheel is it is going up and over railroad tracks and stuff is probably where you might have bunged up your bed on your truck. There's not a lot of clearance there. So again, you can use Google Earth to look at the crossings and things like that to where you might get in trouble. Our travel trailer oscillates so much more on the ball. But fifth wheels, you only got three or four inches of clearance between the fifth wheel overhang and the bed of the truck. You could you could contact the two, and it's not a good thing.

unknown

Yeah.

JIM

So, folks, know where you're going, know your equipment, and if you ever have any questions, call Dave. Yeah, call Dave. Or read his articles at rvlife.com. Dave, thanks again so much for sharing your wisdom. We'll have to have you back. Okay, sounds great. You know, Dave always has a way of making complicated towing topics feel practical and manageable. I made some mental notes for sure.

A Dealer Built On Customer First

RENE

Oh, good. I think what I appreciate most is that he never talks down to people. He just gives you the kind of advice that helps you feel more prepared the next time you hook up and head out.

JIM

Coming up next, Rose and Glynn sit down with Keith Barrick, who brings a really interesting business perspective to the RV world.

RENE

Keith talks about building one of the fastest-growing RV dealerships in Canada, why customer service has to lead the way, and how he's now expanding into the campground side with Whitestone Woods.

JIM

It's a great conversation about growth, timing, market shifts, and what it really takes to build something that lasts in this industry.

ROSE

Here are Rose and Glenn with Keith Barrick. Hi, Keith. Welcome to the podcast. We are so glad you are here with us all the way from Ontario, Canada.

SPEAKER_09

Hi, Rose. Nice to meet you, Glenn. It's uh really a privilege to be here. Um, excited to chat with you guys about the RV industry.

ROSE

Yeah, you bring a unique perspective to the RV industry. You're not just on the sales side with Keith's trailers, but you're also building the places people actually use their RVs with your new resort, which is set to open this year, Whitestone Woods. So we're excited to dig into both your business growth and then what you're also seeing across the industry. Absolutely. So you have built one of the fastest growing RV dealerships in Canada. In 2023, you're awarded Dealer of the Year in Ontario. And in 2025, you're awarded top 50 dealers in North America. What do you feel has really driven that growth?

SPEAKER_09

I think it's just consistency. We've been here a long, you know, quite a while. Uh, but consistency in the service that's being put out, um, not building the dealership around just sales, uh, it's very easy to sell more trailers if you just focus on that. Uh, but building the foundation necessary to um have people come back. So um, you know, the the principles of the dealership are uh customer first and continuous improvement. So if those two things become part of every decision you're making, uh from you know, as simple as um standard operating procedures to, you know, uh how you're dealing with the situation with a customer, it's just a recipe for success. And and the results have really, you know, come from that.

GLYNN

For sure. Now, from the day that you started, was there something that really clicked that all of a sudden everything started to take off, or was it just rapid growth from day one?

SPEAKER_09

Um, there was a point, uh, so we got into new trailers in during COVID, which was tough because we weren't an established dealer. So getting stuff was hard. Everyone believed that that growth came from as a was a result of it. We actually didn't see any of that reward from COVID. Uh, but I did learn some very tough lessons, the fail faster uh lessons. Um, but we did team up with Sunset Park RV, an independent manufacturer, um, who will not be like they refuse to be bought out by the larger corporations, and they gave us Ontario exclusive, and that was honestly one of the biggest pushes forward. Um, it built that foundation, like you uh selling lower inexpensive trailers, gave us a customer base while we built up the service, and then the volume kept going up and up and up. Um, and you know, a year after owning a Sunset Park, they hey, this isn't gonna work for us, it's a little too small, we're gonna want to upgrade to something bigger. And that was like the stepping stone. So that would be the biggest moment, I think, um, would be would be Sunset Park, you know, giving us that exclusivity for Ontario. And that was actually why we ended up winning the top 50 dealers was because they nominated us. Beautiful.

ROSE

So you started this as a family. What do you feel like you're doing different right now from other dealerships? Kind of what sets you apart?

SPEAKER_09

I think the energy. So I've been told this a lot the energy of when you enter the building and you're around the people, it's a very, I don't want to say communal, like it's a consistency energy across all departments. So everyone who works here is of the same mindset. So we're all on a it's like sympatico. I don't know how that got word, but it's everybody is everybody has the same mindset. Everyone treats the customers the same. Um, you know, we're very optimistic and energetic people here. There's never any, even when things are not like. Like if sales are slow, you're not gonna come in and find everyone just moping around. Like we we have a job to do. Um, we we we see the customers and we we care to their needs, not just what we need. So even if it's ultimately if it's um a customer coming in and we don't have what they want, we're not gonna try to force feed them into something else because we need to make a sale. We're gonna cater to the customer's needs, and again, customer first and continuous improvement, right? So we you'll hear me go back to that on almost anything we do, but that is, I think, what we're doing differently.

GLYNN

It sounds that way. I was going to ask, do you feel like it's more your marketing or your customer service that uh drives your growth? But you just answered that question clearly.

SPEAKER_09

And well, it it's it's it's it's it's a combination because we do mark marketing is a big part of our business. Um, and we've we we've done a very good job of the brand. The brand itself is the largest searched item. So in our SEO searches, we've done the hardest part first, is we are we are searched by brand. And that is, again, a marketing situation. Uh, but customer service always is the is the lead foot.

GLYNN

Exactly. That's funny because as you mentioned that in our old business, our SEO was absolute top, but it was the customer service that sold the client over and over and over and over again. And you know, we turned our clients into family, and it sounds like the customers that purchase from you also become your family. 100%.

SPEAKER_09

It's it's people leave here wearing, you know, Keith's trailers hats, and like it's it's everyone's excited to leave here. Um, there's a there's a there's an energy around what we do that I I love, like outside of the selling of of more trailers. I love when people come in and like, oh, is Keith here? And like that's that's an exciting part. Like, I don't never want him to be like a celebrity or someone that people are looking to, but I also want to go see the customers. And we have a lot of them every year that I may or may not get a chance to meet. But when someone like they they recognize me from our marketing and social media, it's always weird, but it's also kind of exciting. Uh, but they are, they feel like they're family here. You know, they get treated like that through service, through parts, through warranty. Uh, this is a dealership I would send a family member to to buy from. And I say that about, you know, uh, someone says, Oh, what about this dealership? There are dealerships I would say, hey, listen, I would send a family member to because of how they treat customers, and that is everything.

GLYNN

It's totally everything. You know, I and it feels so good. Right now, I have this vision of you being that that chef restaurant owner that before he leaves for the night, he goes and like thanks every single person eating in his restaurant. Yeah. Yeah.

First Time Buyer Traps To Avoid

ROSE

That is awesome. So you probably work with a lot of uh first-time buyers, right? So what are people getting wrong when they're buying their first RV? And how has that changed your approach to your sales?

SPEAKER_09

Um, that's a good one because that's actually part of uh something we do, I think, a bit different. Um, a customer who impulse wants to purchase something that we don't think makes sense, and this is driven through the salespeople here because salespeople have watched me talk someone out of buying a camper. Now that seems counterintuitive to a sales business, but I am for from a long perspective, I know they're making the wrong choice because I've seen it, I've done it for this. Uh this is my 24th year selling trailers, and I've watched people make the big mistake of they bought too big and it wasn't what they wanted, but they were dead set on it, had XYZ feature, and they buy it and they come back in six months and trade it in and they lose money and they buy another one, and I'll never see that customer again. And that isn't what we're after because you know, I'm young. This business is gonna be here for a long time. I want to see them several times over. Now, outside of them not buying another one, they're gonna feel like they might not have been guided in the right way. Some people will own their own mistakes, but everyone always looks for a reason to blame. We bought the wrong one because of XYZ. It's their fault, not mine. Their kids, their family members, their friends, they will not hear a good word about us. And ultimately, how many sales did we lose from that? So if I go and convince somebody, or my sales staff does, and they they they say, look, I really don't think this is the right trailer for you. And we're not gonna force them to not buy it if they we can't tell them what to do with their money. But if they feel good about walking away from it and we get them into the right one, it's gonna lead to a whole waterfall effect of more sales because we we stuck on like, hey, listen, we really don't believe this is the right unit for you. And that's a weird, I don't know if that's happens a lot other places, but I I'm a firm believer of guiding people the right way, especially first-time buyers.

GLYNN

That's that's genuinely doing right by the customer. Exactly.

ROSE

I don't think in all our you know, trials of trying to find our first RV, I don't think we had one salesperson say that to us.

SPEAKER_09

No, not you're a buyer. You're that it's like, listen, how what's your budget? Like that's that's the main thing a lot of salespeople are how much you here to spend today? Oh, you don't have a trade? Even better. Like it's it's uh it's a different mentality on approach because it the salespeople see their customers more like repeatedly. Thanks, thanks to that. And that's that's that's automatic lead generation, right? Like how much do you spend per cost per lead to generate leads?

Fuel Prices And The Seasonal Shift

GLYNN

Exactly. Exactly. Now, speaking of you know purchasing, have you seen a shift in the RV industry?

SPEAKER_09

Uh, so your timing is good with this because um the Toronto the spring RV show was everyone was like, I'm excited to go camping and tow around and everything. Uh two weeks later, the Kitchener show, just in between when the prices of fuel jacked up. Uh now everyone wants to go seasonal. And I I've seen these shifts back and forth, but so seasonal is now very sought after because of the price of fuel. So there is a shift towards larger units on a seasonal site. Um, but we go back to if a first-time buyer is coming in, we're gonna guide them and say, look, it's not gonna stay these prices forever. They're gonna come down. Will they come back down to where they were? I don't know. But if you buy a destination trailer and put it in, you're not gonna tow that later on. So guide them in and say, hey, listen, maybe we get you into a D a reasonably sized travel trailer for your first unit, get you to a seasonal park that we're affiliated with. You have the option to tow it later on when things kind of settle down a little bit.

GLYNN

You're offering all the solutions. How perfect is this business?

SPEAKER_09

Problem solution. It's too, yeah. So sometimes my logical thinking gets me in trouble at home. But problem solution is like where my head always goes to.

Building A New Resort From Dirt

ROSE

Very good. So you didn't just stay in the sales side here in the industry because you also have a place called Whitestone Woods that's set to launch later this year. So what sparked that move?

SPEAKER_09

Um, so we got into park model sales uh in 2024. Um, really, I bought and sold a used one. I saw there was a really quick turnaround time because we we didn't mark them up like whatever it turns out everybody was. And I reached out to a manufacturer, we picked up park models. And the first year we were the number one dealer for Forest River in the country selling park models in our first year, and I had no idea what I was doing, but I was approaching it with a different frame of eyes versus who we compete against. And again, it's it's a different approach to a different set of buyers. Um, the buy now buyers don't want to order stuff. Like if you have the option of buying a unit right now or buying something on Amazon, are you gonna wait three days or do you want it tomorrow or today? Right. So we we we shifted the park model uh approach and we saw a lot of success. And we found a lot of people looking for all-season type of camping, which is few and far between. I always knew I was gonna buy a park uh with uh a partner of mine, Chris Tenous from uh Power Sports Link Financing. He works with us here. Um, but this opportunity came up with a piece of land that had 361 acres of developable land and its own lake of 74 acres, um, with no nick no one else on the lake. And it's 722 acres total, and it is prime for development. So there's not been a new campground built in Ontario in uh in over 40 years, and we quickly found out why, because the cost per site is very high with today's red tape um with the Ministry of Environment and Studies. But once we committed, we're in. Um, it just means that we're gonna see the be in the black later. And we don't mean to build this park. We want to. We want to build this and see something good come of this. Um, but the selling of these park models to retirees, people who are, let's say, selling their home that's increased in value, you know, a thousand percent since they bought it. Uh they can liquidate some of their equity, buy a smaller place, or rent a place, stay here for six, seven, eight, nine months of the year, travel south to Phoenix, Florida. Um, it it provides a community of park models on a lake in a private setting in pristine wilderness.

GLYNN

It sounds beautiful. I I have looked at the website and looked over some of the pictures. And I was like, man, I want to be there. I really do. And it sounds like there's some serious synergism between these two businesses. I mean, and it it almost covers that gap where I don't want to call it a gap, but if prices for fuel are really high, then you've got opportunities for something like that. If prices for fuel are low and they want to travel more, you also have solutions to that. Exactly.

ROSE

Has it been harder than you expected with launching a resort from the ground up?

SPEAKER_09

Yes. Um uh it's it's not we when initially when we first announced it, there was pitchforks from locals, like, how dare you do this? And I get it, like you've you've if you've got cottages up in the area, you're concerned about this and that. But so I just sat in front of people and talked like, hey, I have this problem with you and what you're doing. And then I hit them with the logic of like, hey, well, there was already people here not contributing large amounts of taxation. Like, uh, you know, hitting the the concerns and covering them all was something I wasn't prepared for. I didn't think we'd get so much backlash. It's all settled now. Uh, municipality is in is excited for us to come in. It's the biggest development this place will see probably in the foreseeable future. Um, but it's uh it it it has been more difficult. Um, you know, the cost of things keep rising, uh, but we're here, we're gonna see it through, and I'm excited to land that first unit in the founders club.

GLYNN

Yeah, that is exciting. If I'm not mistaken, I just learned that the the amount of bureaucracy and red tape involved in development in Canada is unheard of.

SPEAKER_09

Beyond. Um it'll be it's like two years to get a septic approval for phase two. Um, two full years. And a lot of it is just waiting. Um, studies, everything, and and that's the biggest problem we're faced with. I mean, that's why parks aren't being built, new ones. They'll they'll it's easier to retool an existing park, which is why that people uh groups are buying individual parks, smaller mom and pop parks, and then they're doing small expansions because that's a lot easier, and it's it's the turnaround time is faster. New parks, it is it is a lot of red tape.

GLYNN

Wow. Wow. Well, I I give you credit for uh taking the initiative and and taking action on that. Are you seeing more of a shift towards destination destination style camping? Despite the fuel changes, despite all of that, you are definitely seeing a shift toward destination.

SPEAKER_09

Well, it was so the COVID forced that in Canada because you couldn't leave and um they close like camping was everything. So your your exit out of places was to go to a like seasonal camping. So it it peaked and then it went down, and we're on the rise up again. Um, again, Canadians are like, you know, you're however you feel about the United States. A lot of people are like, Canada first, we're not leaving the country, we're not supporting the US. And you know, you have 50-50 of that, and those 50% of people still want to do this stuff, so they're gonna be leaning to that seasonal destination type of stuff.

GLYNN

Sure. From a from a business standpoint, where do you see the biggest opportunity in the RV space right now?

SPEAKER_09

Uh finding small pockets. That's what I we're good at. Um, seeing what, especially up in our market, um, being obsessed with what I do, I spend endless amounts of hours researching, studying my like competitors' sites, and finding small pockets of things that people are not focusing on uh and taking advantage of that. That's but there's no right now the RV industry as a whole is actually down uh from its consistent numbers. Um, so it's really the individual from an individual perspective for opportunity, whoever's looking at it has to find a pocket in their market. That's what you have to do.

GLYNN

Beautiful. That's not the answer I expected to hear, but it's it's the answer of a true businessman.

ROSE

So if someone's listening and and wants to build something in the RV space right now, what would you tell them to focus on?

SPEAKER_09

Become specialized in something in the industry first. So I did use trailers for 18 years before I saw my first new one. And that's ultimately like you and becoming very good at one thing helps you branch into others. Um, and and going back to the pockets, finding finding a pocket of need if you're you know looking at getting into that and you want to focus on something in the RV industry, because it's it's good, what's what's different, what is needed here is different than what's needed in Florida or you know, Phoenix or California. So if you're getting into that RV industry, it's not generic across the board. You can't say, oh, this is where you need to be, because every locale is going to be slightly different. And you just have to be very intuitive and find that.

ROSE

I like it.

SPEAKER_09

I do too.

ROSE

Very good. Uh before we wrap up here, is there anything we didn't talk about that we should talk about?

Finding Your Pocket In RV Business

SPEAKER_09

Well, I mean, we talked about it before we started, just kind of in the pre-thing is you know, uh in business in general, already or not, um, you'll find if you're trying to get into this industry to sell product, anybody can do it. You guys could open a dealership tomorrow. You get a piece of land, you get some some product, we all have the same 52 cards. Um, you know, but getting that information out of anybody is not easy. Uh, you'll find in it, it might just be the same in any in business in general, but gatekeeping information is is a is typical. Um, you know, finding people who are willing to to share and communicate uh information about the RV industry, few and far between, um, is is what you need. Like I have I've certain people that I've I've grown up around, used to buy trailers from that have been good to me. Um, and we've shared a lot of information over the years. And now we're on the other side where we've we've grown past some of the places that I used to ask for advice from, make a network, you know, learn the industry in and out and become obsessed with it, like I did. If this is something that you if someone would ever want to do it as an entrepreneur, um, it requires that obsession. Um, you know, and don't be afraid to fail. Exactly. You have to be obsessed. Yep, you do. You do. So and also go camping. Like if you're gonna do this, please don't just be a car dealer, say, I want to sell trailers because I want to make more money. Please go camping. Please enjoy what it is that you're selling. Like, I I I love camping. Like, you can connect with people on a different level. Don't just be a product salesperson. Sell them what camping is, what you guys did with your kids. Like, that's what you need to do. Yeah, couldn't agree more.

ROSE

110%. So, Keith, what is the best way for the listeners to find you?

SPEAKER_09

KeithTrailers.com and uh social media, Keith's Trailer Sales. Uh, you can find us anywhere on there.

ROSE

All right. Excellent. This has been such an interesting conversation. Learned a lot there. We so appreciate you having the time to come on today.

GLYNN

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having us having me on. Absolutely. Thank you very much, Keith.

RENE

That was such a great example of how much opportunity there still is in the RV space for people who really understand their customers.

JIM

I liked hearing how his thinking goes beyond just selling units. He's clearly looking at the full RV's lifestyle and where people want to go with it. And now, Bob talks with Jim Roy from Silver Moose Restorations in Maine.

RENE

If you love vintager extremes or just appreciate incredible craftsmanship, this one is especially fun. Jim shares how he got started, how one life-changing accident pushed him in a new direction, and why people are willing to wait years to have their trailers restored by his team.

JIM

Not Jim. Not this Jim. He also reminds us that in the RV world, there's still a real place for skill, patience, and doing things the right way.

Airstream Restorations Done The Hard Way

RENE

Here's Bob with Jim Roy.

BOB

All right, good morning, Jim Roy. And for those people that don't know Jim, Jim is the founder of Silver Moose Restorations, probably the premier airstream restoring company in the country. And he's up there in the middle of the woods in Monmouth, Maine, where people will come all the way across the country just to have their airstreams renovated by you and your team, Jim. So thank you very much for joining us on the uh life podcast. Before you ever got before you bought your first airstream, before you ever decided that restoring airstreams would be a good venture, you were building custom homes up in Maine. Correct. Yeah. We were a general contractor for 27 years before I started Silvermoops.

SPEAKER_11

So tell us how you fell into the industry. So it's a little funny, but about 10 years ago, uh we were building a big addition, a two-story garage, and it was late October. It was kind of drizzly all day, just cold and wet, and we were trying to hurry up and finish putting the plywood on the second floor. And I sent one of my helpers down to start picking up tools at the end of the day. I went over to pick up a sheet of plywood to bring it over to my other helper that was nailing the sheets down, and it was the sheet that was covering the stairway hole, and I fell 18 feet to concrete below. So in the in the week or so that I was recovering from that, I started to think about what I was gonna do in the future. I was uh 45 at the time, so I guess it was about 12 years ago. And I was thinking, what am I gonna do at 55 and 65? And the airstream thing, I was we were actually starting to work on my own airstream at the time, and it just kind of was a fork in the road that we ended up taking and uh Silver Moose was born.

BOB

And I'll bet you don't regret it because you've got a following all around the country. And I know every time I I do an interview with you, I I like to ask what the what the waiting time is now. If somebody called you today and said, I've got a vintage airstream and I want to have it restored, you have a yard full of airstreams out in front of your uh shop. And what is the wait time now for you and your team?

SPEAKER_11

It's been averaging about two to three years. Right now it's about two and a half still. A matter of fact, I had a call from uh Philadelphia yesterday. A lady, her father was in New Hampshire and was restoring his own airstream and passed away suddenly, and uh he was gonna leave it to his eleven-year-old grandson, and the lady wants us to finish it for him. So uh it's still uh it's still about two and a half years.

BOB

Well, that's that's truly amazing. And how do people find you? I mean, I I know you've got a great reputation, so I'm I'm guessing that a lot of people find you from a reference of a previous customer.

SPEAKER_11

Yeah, it's it's mostly word of mouth. Uh we've got a pretty big following on Facebook. You know, Facebook's allowed us to reach all over the world, really. I had a gentleman from South Africa that used to communicate with us. Um, you know, Australia, Tokyo. We've got a bunch coming from Canada now. Uh so the Canadian people have found us, and there's nothing on the eastern side of Canada. So New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Ottawa, they're finding their way over to us too.

BOB

Well, you've been able to take your home construction experience and build it into RV restorations. So you'd you build your own cabinets, your different countertops, you can customize things for customers. Is there one that is extremely difficult that you can remember from start to finish, or they run all over the place?

SPEAKER_11

Um, they're all very similar. Some come to us that are pretty bad. You know, the uh all the older ones have mouse damage. We rip everything out, start fresh. Uh, but depends on where they've been sitting. If they've been sitting in a field for 20, 30, 40 years, uh, you know, the frames are generally damaged, so we have to start right from you know, rebuilding the steel frame. Um, some of them have been hit by trees, so we have to repair or replace the panels. So every single project has its own challenges. Yep, yep.

BOB

And you and you do it all, whether it's the chassis wheels, uh the cabinetry, the interior, the flooring, the plumbing. It's you it's just like, you know, in theory, building the custom house, but you're building and renovating and making somebody's dream come true with a custom restoration. And you're sitting in front of, is that your unit that you're sitting in front of? This was a uh a rig that we picked up.

SPEAKER_11

I needed a door for a uh uh it was a commercial unit that the state was making them add an egress door. So uh I put it out on my Facebook saying that we needed we were looking for another door, and uh this couple from Massachusetts had this particular airstream uh that had been crushed by the snow. So um we bought it and turns out it had two doors. It was a rare double door airstream, so we used the second door for the project, and when I built this particular shop, we used the rear of it as my desk that I'm sitting at right now, and the um the front section with the with the main door, we use it as the backdrop to my fantastic.

BOB

Just fantastic. So you're so busy doing this. Is there any other new projects that you're doing? You got the uh you got the workshop finished, and uh I know I think recently you bought a uh CNC machine, right?

SPEAKER_11

We did. We're still trying to get that up and running. We've we have a a glitch with It so I've got a master electrician that came down to to try and figure out, and even he stumped. So right now I'm waiting for his expert to come and help him. Hopefully, we can get that up and running and um save a little time for our customers and uh get things going a little faster.

BOB

What's the oldest um airstream vintage airstream that you've worked on?

SPEAKER_11

We've got a 56 and a 57 in the yard right now, uh waiting to get in. Uh the 56, we actually did a floor and um axles on uh 57 uh is a full build.

BOB

Amazing. Well, all right, so we were Jim Roy with Silver Moose Restoration. So if people want to find you, Jim, how can they find you?

SPEAKER_11

The easiest way is probably Silver Moose Restorations on Facebook. We do have an Instagram Silvermoose page on Instagram as well, but we don't I don't do too much with that one. But the regular webpage. The website is uh silvermoose.me. Uh and um email is silvermooseme at gmail.com.

Community Links And Final Takeaways

BOB

Fantastic. Jim, thanks for joining us today on the RV Life Podcast. And hopefully we'll catch up to you down the road, my friend. Yeah, we'll see you uh maybe see you in old orchard this week, this uh summer. Maybe. All right, Jim. Thank you.

JIM

That Jim sure does some incredible work, and that's it for this episode of the RV Life Podcast.

RENE

We sure covered a lot today from campground ownership and towing confidence to RV business growth and the art of restoring vintage airstreams.

JIM

You know, once again, a recurring theme that sticks out for me is how community matters on the road and for business growth. And speaking of community, we'd love to hear from you. Let us know how we're doing and connect with other RVers in the RV Life or RV Entrepreneur Groups on Facebook. And as always, reach out and share your story at podcast.rvlife.com.

RENE

Thanks for tuning in. Check the episode page to connect with our guests and share this episode with a friend, especially if they're new to towing.

JIM

For RV Life, we're Jim Ernay.

Find Your Next Campground Faster

SPEAKER_07

Until next time, happy travels, and remember, brakes and bearings is the number one main mistake comes to towing that gets overlooked.

RV LIFE

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