YES, we believe porn is destructive and contrary to God's best for us. But, why are we normalizing the complete demoralization and shaming of Christian brothers and sisters? Those trapped in a porn addiction need to be met with compassion, empathy, and courage. So pull up a chair and let's discuss.
>> Show Notes
YES, we believe porn is destructive and contrary to God's best for us. But, why are we normalizing the complete demoralization and shaming of Christian brothers and sisters? Those trapped in a porn addiction need to be met with compassion, empathy, and courage. So pull up a chair and let's discuss.
>> Show Notes
You're probably gonna hate us, but we are conservative Christian moms.
Candace:We're here to empower other conservative Christian moms to speak up, say what's true and defend their children's futures.
Amy:I am Amy and I'm the often two serious mother of twins.
Candace:I'm Candy Rose and I'm the often two honest mother of three.
Nikki:And I'm Nikki and I'm the often two emotional mother of two.
Amy:So today we're gonna talk about porn, and let me tell you, we are all psyched about it. Not really,
Nikki:So excited
Amy:um,
Candace:Who.
Amy:but we felt it was worth talking about. Some of the kind of initial questions that are self answering. there a place for porn in a God-honoring life? How about in a God-honoring marriage? And if no, here's the big question we really wanna talk about. How do we respond when, for instance, our husband comes to us and says he's struggling with pornography. Do we come at them with righteous fury? Should we pile on their shame and remind them they've cheated on us? Is it a valid cause for separation or divorce? There's a big one. Pull up a chair. Let's discuss.
Nikki:I just wanna note that we did this topic before
Candace:Yes.
Nikki:and we recorded it wrong.
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:be deleted, and we're redoing this, so
Candace:Yes.
Nikki:I, I'm just saying it just in case. We seem like we're trying to wrap it up too fast.
Amy:Yeah, we. had to trash the audio, which was entirely my fault and super sad. And then as we've talked through our topics, we keep like avoiding this one, we're like, ah, maybe another time. Maybe another time. So we're finally gonna do it because it is a really great topic. Let's start with some statistics. I feel this is for a lot of conservative Christians, self answering. But let's just talk through why is porn not God honoring,
Candace:Mm.
Amy:on a biological, how we remain level so some of my notes, right, just 55% of adults, 25 or older believe porn is wrong.
Nikki:Just tw just 55%.
Amy:it's only half our culture and it's becoming way more pervasive of an idea that like this is your choice, that you participate in recording porn, so therefore it's perfectly okay to consume it.
Nikki:That's crazy.
Amy:speaking, when you're looking at porn rine, I
Nikki:Nor Epinephrine.
Amy:Thank you,
Nikki:Nor epinephrine. Yeah.
Amy:No epinephrine, and vasopressin, are released in the brain, which work together to form lasting memories, which they call it a neurological tattoo. If you ever talk to somebody who has looked at porn even one time or has made a habit of it, they talk about how these images stay in their brain for days, months, years later.
Candace:Oof.
Amy:like you're constantly consuming it over and over, which is crazy. Porn gives you an unnatural high, which they call a super normal stimulus. have this little excerpt I'll read and a popular TEDx talk, physiology teacher Gary Wilson, explains that when men look at porn, they experience surge after surge of dopamine in the brain. I'm sure this is true for women too. Bye bye-bye. The brain eventually fatigues stopping the production of dopamine, leaving the viewer wanting more, but unable to reach a level of satisfaction. And escalating tastes for more bizarre or novel porn.
Candace:Hmm.
Amy:And I even have a friend who's imprisoned for,
Nikki:Pedophilia.
Amy:and I know that this is totally his story. And, and he now, um, well anyway, I won't go into that, but the point being, this is a super true and super real thing for people. and my last little factoid , not a fun fact, but a factoid, uh, trying to stop watching habitual porn can actually lead to withdrawal symptoms. So
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:is a massive neurological chemical, biological element that is totally just destroys people. I feel it's worth saying like, God honoring no. For so many other reasons in this, but
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Amy:no, everyone agree
Candace:Yes. yeah, definitely.
Nikki:I even feel like it's like a thing. in church, remember when 50 Shades of Gray would come out and like the moms would, were doing that. I don't know if you knew anyone. I didn't ever get on that train, but I remember thinking like, what are you guys doing? This is mom porn. This is like the same thing.
Candace:Yeah, I actually had quite a few friends and family read those books and get super into them, and I was just like, silently like, Ugh, this makes me super uncomfortable. I don't like it.
Nikki:And I just throw that out there to say like, we're not just talking about the men here. And I feel like that stuff rewires our brains too,
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:gives us unrealistic expectations of what marriage and sex and romantic, you know, liaisons are supposed to be like. So, I don't know. I'm just throwing that out there.
Candace:Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, I. I was just saying, I was just talking to my husband the other day about how like music affects our mood. I think it's anything we put in, it's what we're watching, it's what we're listening to. It's what we're reading. What we put in is a hundred percent going to affect us mentally and spiritually and emotionally.
Nikki:but there's hope. So if you guys are struggling, I, we haven't even gotten, I feel like we didn't do this last time. We recorded like with 55% thinking it's okay, or whichever, or only 55% thinking whatever. There's probably a huge number of people, even Christians and conservative that are consuming it and doing it. And if you're like surprised at what we're saying, And maybe you're like, oh, this week all of us were going through something and uh, Amy sent us a verse that was so good and what struck me from it, you can put the vote. I can't remember. It was like Timothy or something, the one about discipline.
Amy:Timothy 19 maybe.
Nikki:Yeah. So I, that has struck me all week and I've been able to like tell it to like three other people. So I'm like, oh my gosh, that was such a Holy Spirit thing that,
Candace:Mm
Nikki:we were going through some anxiety. Amy encouraged us, but the verse actually meant in the Greek that we just believe what God says about us.
Candace:mm-hmm.
Nikki:if you're struggling, like just know that we're for you, God is for you. You're more than a conqueror. You are able to get through this. And, God. God is good and he's bigger than being stuck on porn, so
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:gonna say that. So no shame as we're talking,
Candace:Yeah. No, definitely. We don't wanna shame anybody.
Nikki:if you're feeling convicted, let the Lord convict you. But we're not
Candace:Yeah..Yes. We all have our own struggles just because I don't think any of the three of us struggle with Born specifically. We definitely struggle with different things, so,
Nikki:things, right? And actually the shame element is literally why I wanted, we wanted to start talking about this the week before we originally recorded this. I had several girlfriends that were, are ready to get divorced, separated because I, you know, here I thought that maybe. There had been infidelity and so maybe we can talk about this. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe your husband cheated. And they were counseled that they could get divorced by their pastors, and it turned out it was because their husbands were looking at pornography and consuming pornography. And I was like, flabbergasted because I don't know, what do you guys think? Like, I think I. It is sort of cheating, but on the other side, I don't know, I don't think I would divorce my husband over it. I don't know, but that's just me. What do you guys
Candace:That's, gosh, that's super, super hard. So I, I don't know. That's so hard cuz I can't imagine what it would feel like. But I have a friend who's going through something similar and. We've been very close and open and honest with each other. And her biggest struggle in wanting to separate, although they're not going through with divorce right now, they're just separating, is that he has been struggling with this for over 15 years and every time he says he's sorry, he doesn't stop. So it's not like a one time oopsy daisy. It's habitually, yeah. What she feels like is cheating. I have to wonder if it would feel the same for me if my husband was habitually doing that and then lying about it, and then you have to find it. And I, again, no judgment, but I, I have to, I, I don't think there's a clear cut like, oh yes, this is definitely infidelity, or Oh, oh no, it's definitely not. I think it's probably a trial by trial thing. I think it could be for sure.
Nikki:Yeah. I think what ha was triggering me maybe is the, like the vitriol, like the, the, like these women were telling me how they responded to their husbands, which I will caveat and say like, Back in the day, if this had happened to me or when this happened to me, rage just the same way. But this shows you like how far we can come and the grace that God teaches us
Candace:Oh yeah.
Nikki:But I think that that self-righteous indignation. Is almost just as bad, you know, like I was hearing these women say like they caught their husbands. They're like, you're disgusting. And like, how could you, and I was like, wow, you like I'm just like listening and taking it in and trying to be a supportive friend, but on the inside I'm like, oh my gosh, you just shamed your husband and
Amy:Yeah.
Nikki:he's probably already hating himself and now he agrees. He probably agrees
Amy:Yeah.
Nikki:so there's an element to. and, and it's so funny because now that you know, after, you know, we, you, I don't know if everyone's heard the abortion talk yet, but I used to look at men when I found, found out that they. Struggled with abortion a different way. Um, and then after my own story and realizing that God has forgiven me much, it l it radically changed how much I view struggling because God offers us all that same grace and that forgiveness. So it's just now on, now on the other side, it's just hard to hear the condemnation and the shame. So I don't know.
Amy:Yeah. I really struggle with the shame element. I think it's very normal in Christian culture to to hear all those facts and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't, we don't do porn in this though. We don't believe in porn. It's, it's as double sided to be like, but I will verbally shame and degrade my husband admitting Struggles with porn or any man, so it's just like not talked about,
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:right.
Amy:about it.
Nikki:Which then they can't get freedom.
Amy:find, right, sometimes they can find a small group of other men that they can kind of be honest sometimes, like when they're feeling really bold to be able to text and be like, Hey, I'm really struggling right now. Can you, you know, pray over me or help me to not make a poor decision? But even that is like, I don't know, I really struggle with it when I was. School, was thinking about being a youth pastor, so I took
Candace:Oh.,
Amy:child, like I did kind of the first course, which was about like kids. And they said, and this was in 20, like 2009 or something, they said that the average boy sees porn for the first time at nine years old. So if you can imagine what it's like now, uh, it's than nine I do think that porn is absolutely cheating for more than one reason. One, you're bringing someone else into the marriage bed, right? Um,
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:your future marriage bed. Like this is the, it's a, it's absolutely a perversion of God's idea of love and sex. And so to me that's, that's infidelity. But also the Bible says that when you look at a woman, Or a man, right? Depending on anywhere lustfully, that is infidelity. So
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:acting on it,
Nikki:We're cheating.
Amy:towards someone that's cheating, right? It's all about your heart posture. So to me, porn is absolutely infidelity. but I also feel super strongly about marriage. And me, pornography is an addiction. Like else, it's super chemical. It's deeper than chemical, which makes it so much harder. to, break free from. And so the idea that we will shame our husbands, that they won't have a safe place to talk about it. They could be an alcoholic and it would be a safe place. They could, they could have almost any other sin any other problem and it would be safe to talk about. But when it has to do with porn, somehow they are the scum of the earth and you know, and we're allowed to divorce them over. And I have a huge problem with that. I just
Nikki:me too.
Amy:that posture is biblical and.
Nikki:but Grace to your friend. I mean, I, we're not walking it, so I under I hear what you're saying about your friend, like, so Yeah, I don't,
Amy:It's
Nikki:yeah. Hmm,
Amy:that and be told that. And I remember one time we talked, last time we talked about this, we talked about this. Sometimes it's actually the sin of pride on our part. Like
Nikki:hmm.
Candace:Hmm.
Amy:if, my husband says, Hey, you know, I did this today, or I've been struggling with this for the last few weeks or a few months and I'm becoming clean, my first thought would be, I'm not enough. I'm not beautiful enough, I'm not whatever. But it's not about me. It has nothing to do with me. And
Candace:Hmm
Amy:you have to let go of your pride, you know what I mean? And
Candace:Hmm.
Amy:and
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:and compassion, even though it's so hurtful. Cuz it is so same like of
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:your friend. But I would guess there's other deep stuff like. Even with your friends too, Nikki, that are talking about this, almost feels more like an out when there's actually much deeper issues that are creating, you know what I'm saying? So like,
Nikki:A hundred percent. And it's hard too for people who are this might be another podcast for another day, but personal accountability, like it's very hard as Christians in church to look at our own sin. It's so easy for us to look at the sins of other people, but I
Candace:Oh yeah.
Nikki:on the head. Like, if these women, and you know what, and you guys, we, this is why you need some Christian friends who read the Bible and pray because they will speak truth to you in love, but some people aren't ready or willing to hear it. Like these, you're right. I believe that there was a lot of disrespect and a lot of unhealthy marriage things going on already. I'm not saying that because one person was. Respectful. The other person was allowed to go do this, but there's a lot of issues.
Amy:Hmm.
Nikki:And it does feel true that people can use it as like, my get out, you're get outta jail free. You know, like, oh, they're doing it and I'm allowed, and I can spin this to the pastors that are counseling in a way that, you know what I mean? Like, it, it's, it's just ugly and it's sad, but I so agree with what you said. It's just not personal. And we take it so personally. Their sin issue. Cuz you know, in my marriage, um, before we got married, I discovered that my husband struggled with it. And we ended up postponing our wedding a whole year. Um, and I moved to another state and I got counseling and he got help from some guys. We did the covenant eyes thing. And he had to work on some deep issues, but I remember literally feeling like, this is all you, you are awful. You are all these things.
Candace:Hmm.
Nikki:later and realizing that like he was broken in some ways and he needed healing in a lot of ways,
Candace:Hm.
Nikki:I'm able to come alongside and support. I, I don't know if it's a, been a struggle cuz I'm not his accountability person, but in our marriage when things come up, I will say things like, Hey, it feels like something's off. You know, I love you and I'm praying for you. If you need support, maybe reach out to your friends. You, you, you guys know when things feel a little bit off and that
Candace:Hmm.
Nikki:and that's how we've handled it and it works for me. It does trigger me, so I don't wanna be part of it, but he has
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:can reach out to and speak truth to, um, And work it out. And I have freedom in knowing like it's not me. That's his sin issue that he has to go before the Lord. But I have lots of sin issues, that I'm so grateful he doesn't decide to leave me over, you know? So
Candace:Yeah,
Amy:Yeah, my husband, um, told me, but long before we were married, kind of similar to you, Nikki, like we, weren't engaged yet, actually. and it actually sent me on this, like, I spent like a year having lots of different men in my life. men I'd known for many, many years. Men that I was Like I was just eating Chad, reveal this to me and
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:really sent me on It was a paradigm shift. Some of the men that told me were so godly, loved the Lord so
Candace:Hmm
Amy:prophetic, were all of those things. And so it was a paradigm shift for me to realize that this is an extremely common struggle
Candace:mm-hmm.
Amy:there is not a lot of conversation or freedom to be honest about it because of the shame.
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:Something I learned through that experience is that if you ever talk to a man or I, same year, I had a girlfriend who admitted her own porn addiction.
Candace:Well,
Amy:if you talk to any of those people ever, you will hear the brokenness, the shame, Just feeling absolutely worthless. It is the least fulfilling activity and it makes them feel so worthless. And so it breaks my heart. You know, I, I was grateful that the Lord taught me through that, like how to respond to him and how to. be loving and empathetic and, same I'm Nikki. I'm not his accountability partner, but we do have enough openness that I can say things like, when I'm leaving for the weekend, hey, be safe this weekend.
Nikki:Yep.
Amy:you know, he'll say, Hey, I'm really struggling today. Can we pray? Or like, he
Nikki:Yes. I love
Candace:Mm.
Amy:our communication about it is really healthy. So I don't have any specifics and I don't want them
Nikki:No.
Amy:You know,
Nikki:Oh, that reminds me of how we started the la I'm sorry to interrupt. That reminds me how we started the last one where I think at the time a Netflix movie had just come out I had just happened to watch it, I can't remember what it's called now, but the scene was, uh, maybe. Dad's weekend or something where the dad got to stay home
Candace:Oh yeah.
Nikki:Yeah. And then the wife leaves and everyone leaves and then she forgot something. So she comes back in and he's in the middle of watching pornography and you know, whatever comes along with that. And then she's like, oh, sorry for interrupting honey. Here, keep watching. Oh, let me get out of your way.. And so I was really shocked to see that because what I feel like, uh, culture is trying to do is make it normative. Like make it like, oh no, this is something that we should celebrate. This is something that we should,, encourage our husbands to do. And I, I don't know. I feel like, um, it. Impacts my marriage negatively. Like earlier days when it ever, it was a struggle. I knew. I was like, Hmm, something's off. And I remember finally being like, babe, I was like, whatever. You know, you deal with this whatever way you need to deal with it, but not good for you and it's not good for me. So you fix it. Um, and praise God., you know, there was healing there and all that kind of stuff. I just don't see how it's good. I don't know, like I, you can feel like a mental block. You can feel like weird thing, you know, just
Amy:Mm-hmm.
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Nikki:we're not a movie, you guys . We're real life so
Amy:Well, it is like, now I have never been cheated on in, in that way. Like, you
Nikki:Mm.
Amy:or my boyfriends have never physically cheated
Nikki:Right.
Amy:But, I do think it has the same impact in that there is, we're designed to be one with our spouse it, it's like an in between, like it creates a separation and you can't put your finger on it, but it feels weird and you're like, there's something off. And, and it does, it creates separation as if being cheated on,
Nikki:Hmm. I like that.
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:damaging. It's interesting that you brought up, so second Timothy 17 and. I always like to do word studies if I feel a word doesn't jive for
Nikki:Makes sense. Yeah.
Amy:writings, a lot of the way this is written second Timothy 17 is, hold on, I gotta go back out
Nikki:Read it for us.
Amy:is, wait for it guys. We're gonna get there. God has not given us a spirit of timidity but power. One more time. For God has not given us a spirit of timid, but a pow but of power and love and discipline. I don't like discipline there because that feels very on me. It's like I have to be disciplined, I have to be careful about what I'm doing. Um, and that didn't feel right. So if you look up that word in the Greek, so this is the New Testament, so it's gonna be the Greek, it's sozo. I don't know. The basic term is to recall one. to his senses. But if you look into it in the way it's used, it's sort of like a feeling of moderation based upon truth. So it's a
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:into and having the sensibility of your mind, the, sound, another other terms, other translation say of Sound mind.. So it's, but it's
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:sound mind as in you're not crazy, but it's like I am sitting in the truth. I am not over here and I'm not over there. I'm not in an extreme, but I'm sitting in the moderate truth. And this deals like one of those things. We can't sit well on the, on a socially liberal side and say just accept porn as if it's somehow godly. But we also
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:allow Christian culture or common American Christian culture to let. a place where we are totally fine with shaming people who have porn addictions and making it a huge taboo, that can never be discussed. And so
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Amy:we respond to people with any kind of addiction, including porn, feels like one of those sound minds sitting in the moderate truth moments.
Nikki:Yeah. yeah. Where we can meet them in the truth that they're loved, that they can overcome it. Um, and maybe not even in the flesh, but by the power of the Holy Spirit. A lot of the things that we struggle with, you know, like as a mom, I struggle with being patient with my kids, and I think in the. In the laying it down and like, Lord, I wanna throttle these kids right now. He meets us in those places and gives us the grace to get through it. Um, and I feel like it's one of those things, but it is also one of those things where we have to decide, I will make a covenant with my eyes not to look upon, you know, less fully upon things
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Nikki:turn around, even if it's a thousand times in one day. it's, it is one of those tricky things where I feel like, because it's so shameful and because a lot of men and women don't wanna bring it up, or even if they could, people don't want to make them feel bad. It's like, it's such a weird middle spot that it's like, oh, it's okay brother. Like all men struggle with it. So it's like both, it's like the women are shaming, but then the men. Almost oh, it's something that we're always gonna struggle with. I've heard so many
Candace:Hmm
Nikki:use that line where Paul says, the thorn in is flesh. They're like, well, you know, Paul was a man. you know like we all have that thorn in the flesh. and I'm like, yes, but it's not really an excuse. We can do better. We can fix our eyes on Jesus. Repent a million times if we need. By the power of the spirit,
Candace:mm-hmm. Yeah.
Nikki:very radical middle spot that that verse is so perfect for. So it's just kind of crazy. It came up this week,
Amy:I thought I liked what you were saying earlier, Nikki, about like. Mom porn or woman porn, because I also feel really strongly about that, what we bring as women to the bedroom if we're Not struggling with porn. I wanted to acknowledge the fact that actually some women do.
Nikki:yeah.
Amy:but it is a small percentage. So what I think the average woman brings to the bedroom, to speak, or into the marriage that is. Just as bad in a way, is these weird expectations around perfect men who will sweep us off our feet and be super romantic and always remember everything and never like, you know what I'm saying? So I, I
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:myself out of romantic fiction
Nikki:Same.
Amy:I felt it was very strange. The, it gave me this very unrealistic really worldview.
Candace:Hmm.
Amy:for my husband. I'm like, no., He's a man. He's supposed to be burly and not that grace, graceful and like not really that romantic minded. And he's supposed he's an adventurer and he's supposed to like be gr like, I don't know, like men are men
Candace:Well, right. Well, they're human, right? Not all women are the same. Not all men are the same. I think we talked about this before with our feminism talk. To say that all men are one way or another. That's silly. We're human. We're all fallible, and there's no such thing as a perfect man, even though that might be what you find in fiction,
Nikki:what?, it just seems like in, in fiction, the men are always making the right choice and like, fighting for the women or like, if the woman's being completely horrible and awful, he'll come and sweep her off her feet and like, I don't know, just like this, like you were saying, burly, like manly, I dunno, there's no space for, let's talk about this and like, how about if you're toxic too, and let's talk about your toxic trains.,it's more like the man's stupid and he messes up and he has to come apologize. And the women are kind of like the goddess figures, I don't know, . It's just like, Ooh. It's just, yeah.
Amy:what, I guess what I was trying to say, but I feel like I said it really wrong. is that to me, in romantic nonfiction, men have all the physicality of being men. They men,
Nikki:Right.
Amy:the emotion of women. and you're
Nikki:Oh,
Amy:that's
Nikki:I see. No, it's not a thing.
Amy:are, they make mistakes. They, they say the wrong stuff. They forget things like they are men. Their brains work totally differently. They're su, I don't.
Candace:Yes. Yeah.
Nikki:I feel like even Christian fiction does that, when you read a redeeming love, Michael Jose is like the best man ever.
Amy:up.
Candace:Okay, hold on.
Nikki:that movie, did have a little bit of risque scenes. Did you guys watch the movie?
Candace:Yes, but hold on, hold on. I wanna, I totally wanna speak on against what you're saying, Nikki, because if you know the author and how, why she wrote that Booka is.
Nikki:the book. Yeah.
Candace:It's based on the Bible and in the Bible he's a reflection of Jesus. So you can't look at him as like a human man. He's a man who is in this story, a reflection of Jesus. That's what he's supposed to be.
Nikki:still, I still was like, there's not a man like this, but I, you're right, and it, there is a caveat. She does say it in the beginning. She says it's like a modern retelling So you're right,
Candace:Yeah. And there's no man, I mean,
Amy:Same.
Candace:husbands are supposed to love us like Jesus. But that is, I mean, not just, that's a perfect man. And again, there's no such thing as a perfect man. So even though that's how they're supposed to love us , that doesn't mean that's how they're going To
Amy:To be fair because I was thinking about that too. Obviously I love that book and I think it is very biblical. It's not trying to give us some
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Amy:of men, at all. But to be fair, now that I'm thinking about it, he is like strong and silent, is very typical man, right?
Nikki:Yes. Yes.
Amy:Like he's, he's quiet and you don't know what he's thinking and it bugs, it bugs the crap out of her, which I love. I think that's a
Candace:Yes. Yes.
Nikki:but he is like the man you want. No, no. I was gonna say the movie doesn't and but he's like the perfect biblical man in the sense that he's
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Nikki:and let's hold hands and thank God. And you're like, oh.
Amy:Yeah, Yes.
Nikki:so it's like, like good lady, like bible porn Like send me a praying man, God,
Candace:I mean, yeah, ideally,
Amy:I. we're gonna talk about that movie, let's just do it.
Nikki:let's do it.
Amy:you've seen Redeeming Love and you've read the books and you're obsessed with the book as much as the rest of us, when he starts praying in the chapel, I'm like, first of all,
Nikki:It was so cheesy. I died
Amy:oh my gosh,
Nikki:I died.
Amy:pulling off that accent. I am not buying it. And it
Nikki:He killed me.
Amy:me and I had to get
Nikki:Me too. Me too. then upon I watched it again and it grew on me, I was like, oh, he's just so naive. He was just so innocent and pure. In our world, we just don't have that
Amy:Yeah.
Nikki:But for me it was the sex scene. Don't you feel like it? Like for a Christian movie, what did you guys think? I was a little bit shocked cuz I was a little bit like, wait, should we watch this? didn't I watch it with you? Candace
Candace:Yeah, I don't know. I, so I thought they did It pretty tastefully, only because she is a prostitute and you know there's gonna be at least one sex scene and we didn't really actually see anything, but it was still pretty hot and heavy I thought they towed the line. not badly.
Nikki:She was definitely, It was, there was, there was movement there.
Amy:Yeah, they
Nikki:I was like, oh,
Amy:uh, dipping
Nikki:was, I was like,
Amy:is how I would say it. Like,
Nikki:yeah.
Candace:Oh yeah.
Amy:yay.
Nikki:titillated people. Yeah. And, and maybe, and maybe that was good. We got people to watch it that maybe wouldn't watch it. So
Amy:I don't know. I, I would say it prob, it probably was over the line if
Nikki:a little,
Amy:conservative and honest about it
Candace:Yeah. Yeah.
Amy:I was, I would watch it with Chad, you know what I mean? I was like totally fine watching with my husband, but he was like, whoa,
Nikki:Yeah, all of us were, and we were, we,
Amy:man,
Nikki:Candace and I went and saw it and we were like some of the only people in the
Candace:Yeah. Yeah.
Nikki:Okay.. Candace: Yes, and me and then a bunch of like 50 to 60 year olds and they were titillated, like the whole room, you know, when, when there was an awkward scene when you're a teenager and it gets like tense and time, I'm like, quiet and it was like that, and we're like, please don't go there. Please don't go there. And it it because of that, I would say maybe it went a little bit far, but I still loved
Candace:Oh, they could have pulled it. back a little bit. For sure. I'm just glad pan away. I'm just glad we didn't actually see anything like
Nikki:good point. But I mean, I, yeah,
Amy:yeah,
Nikki:but it
Candace:awkward.
Nikki:done.
Amy:yeah, part of part of why I was I was, double minded about it, was that it felt that part of the tension of it, or like part of why it was such a great scene is that They were They were in love. We had spent a lot of the movie watching them get to a place where this was gonna be more than a physical act for her.
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Amy:in that sense, I do think it was almost like a portrayal of God's intention for sex. So maybe
Nikki:I see where.
Amy:think she worked with them on it.
Nikki:I mean, she was a romance novel writer before she
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:And um,
Candace:Yes.
Nikki:oh yeah, she
Candace:Yes.
Nikki:romance novelist. And I remember early days back when I first read like all of her books, I wanted to go find them because I didn't, I used to read lady books and I was like, she has to be the best writer and I wanna find him. And she had them totally taken off the market and hunted them down
Candace:Oh, wow.
Nikki:that. Now because
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:I bet you her love. Would've tattooed themselves in my brain forever and ever.
Amy:Have you guys ever, have you
Candace:a very good author.
Amy:The Friends episode where Rachel wants to write romance novels.
Nikki:Oh
Candace:I don't remember that one.
Amy:So, uh,
Candace:I've seen all of the friends, but I don't remember that one.
Amy:Okay. Chandler's mom is a romance novelist and she's like the smutty type, right, where she's
Nikki:yes.
Amy:the details. And so Rachel's all inspired by her and she doesn't know, what she wants to do with her life yet. And so at the end the end scene, she does like her first chapter giraffe, and she hands it out to her friends, but it's got so many in it, . So one of them is like something about like, um, a throbbing pencil or something like that, or like, what is a
Nikki:I,
Amy:Anyway, that's what
Nikki:like dying. I'm crying. There's a tear. Oh, man. Good old friends. Yeah.
Amy:Good old
Nikki:No, yeah. No sh no shame. Just kind of like, you're struggling with it or if you think it's okay, like maybe rethink it. Go find, go find some biblical bases for like, why you think it's okay. And uh, and if you know it's not okay, stop. Go get a friend, help you. Stop. And then if you're going through a will speak life into your marriage. I don't know. So many things I'm thinking
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:just like so crazy to me. the, the cost, the weight,
Candace:Yeah. it's just like when we talked about technology, , social media, You know, we've, our culture is trying so hard to normalize things that we know internally are wrong, whether I think, whether you're a Christian or not. We read our Bible and we know that it's wrong for several reasons, but I think. I would debate that people that are not Christians and not Bible readers, still, there's gotta be something in them that is like, this is not quite right, but culture's telling us. it is. It's trying to normalize all these evil things And this is one of the things, and it's just too bad.
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:on the other side, church culture is trying to make it totally fine for basically church culture is trying to make it fine for you to be man hating when
Nikki:I know
Amy:any way. that's what bothers me,
Nikki:it
Candace:Yeah.
Amy:All right.
Candace:Yep.
Amy:thanks for
Nikki:Hmm.
Amy:for our second time. Walking through the issue of porn. And uh, we hope that, I don't know,
Nikki:Yeah. I mean if there's, I feel like we had a lot more we touched on last time, so let us know if you have anything that we didn't hit on that you'd be curious about. I
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:to say, but we didn't want to, like this is a heavy topic this time. I feel like it was
Candace:Mm-hmm.
Nikki:I don't feel like we carried as much weight on it. Thank you Lord for that. But yeah. we are, you're gonna love us. You're gonna love us. You're gonna hate us, but you're gonna love
Candace:You will . You will love us.
Nikki:We're here.
Amy:See you guys next week actually. I believe we are taking, we're taking one week off For the
Nikki:For Christmas. Yeah. Enjoy your
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:Put your phone down.
Candace:Yeah.
Nikki:Give your, uh, family the gift of your presence, the present of your presence.
Candace:Oh my gosh. Really quickly, I wanna share what one of my, um, best friends from my other Bible study does the week after Christmas. They, all of them, they don't work. They don't go to school, they don't do anything. And they call it Christmas Town and they just stay home and watch movies and play games, and they unplug from everything. And I think that's an amazing.
Nikki:I'm gonna
Candace:I love it.
Nikki:I'm gonna steal it.
Amy:I
Candace:it.
Amy:it. Well, you're
Candace:So do that.
Amy:but
Nikki:But you're gonna love us
Candace:You will