For many women, friendships with the opposite sex are not only easier… they are more natural. Girls can be catty and competitive, but guys don’t play as many games. They’re just “easier” to be around. But as we enter into committed relationships--become engaged, get married--should these friendships change? Do we need more rules and boundaries around our relationships? How can we best honor our husbands and our friendships?
// Show Notes:
The Case Against the Sexual Revolution by Louise Perry
For many women, friendships with the opposite sex are not only easier… they are more natural. Girls can be catty and competitive, but guys don’t play as many games. They’re just “easier” to be around. But as we enter into committed relationships--become engaged, get married--should these friendships change? Do we need more rules and boundaries around our relationships? How can we best honor our husbands and our friendships?
// Show Notes:
The Case Against the Sexual Revolution by Louise Perry
You are probably gonna hate us, but we are conservative Christian moms,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:We're here to empower other conservative Christian moms to speak up, say what's true and defend their children's futures.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Hey, I'm Amy and I'm the often two serious mother of.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I'm Candy Rose and I'm the often two honest mother of three.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:and I'm Nikki, and I'm the often two emotional mother of two.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:for many women. Friendships with the opposite sex are not only easier, they're just more natural. Girls can be catty and competitive, but guys just don't play as many games. They're just kind of easier to be around. But as we enter into committed relationships, becoming engaged, getting married, should these friendships change? Do we need more rules and boundaries around our relationships and how can we best honor our husbands and our friendships? So I'll pull up a chair and let's discuss.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yay. So today we have our very first guest, woo woo. She's . She's a good friend of mine. She's a playwright, a theater company director, a Jesus lover, and she's going to bring, um, a little more liberal perspective to our conversation. So welcome Hadassah. Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Welcome.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yay. We're super glad to have you. You are not going to be our only slightly more liberal leaning guest, which I'm excited about because I think that when we started this podcast, one of our initial things was like, we need to speak out because We're not being heard. But then as we started recording, it was a lot more like, Hey, can't we just like be one body of Christ and have lots of opinions and respect each other and have better conversations? So I think this podcast has turned into an opportunity to sort of open the line of communication and like talk and, and sort of come to a middle ground on stuff. So I'm super excited about that. So as we dive in, one kind of interesting prompt around this. Conversation. There is an author Luis Perry, she's British. Her accent's delightful. And she wrote a book called, which, not the only reason I like her, but, um, the Case against the Sexual Revolution. She is not a Christian, uh, but she makes a really incredible case around the importance of feminine sexuality from a purely secular point of view. And she talks about how women go through three phases, maiden mother and ma tron. In our society. I don't really think there's that much, I don't know, respect for mother and matron,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Mm-hmm.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I think other cultures maybe respect those roles. Does that feel true to you guys too?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I think so.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah. So, In, in the American culture, we are like all desperate to hang onto the maiden role. Like we're in our sixties getting surgery and like doing all the stuff to make ourselves feel and look like we're still maidens, which is ridiculous. And for me, this feels tied to the conversation because. For some reason we have a hard time shifting our roles into motherhood and, and being matrons, you know, having grandkids and stuff. And that affects the way that we interact with other people and our relationships and how does we interact, especially with the opposite sex. Like if we're in this constant maiden role, then there's this constant opportunity, right? For like a different kind of sexual encounter, a different kind of relationship, a non platonic relationship. And so as. I think like an opportunity to sort of empower each other to like, Hey, motherhood's awesome being a matron's. Incredible. The wisdom, the stuff that comes from that. It's an important role. Let's respect it. It's beautiful. So I don't know, I just thought that was an interesting tie in cuz that's kind of how I see this topic is like we have to shift our own role so that the way we interact is different.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I'm having a huge light bulb moment. It's. Literally crazy. No, it, it's just crazy because it makes so much sense the way you're describing it, and I think in American society we are probably obsessed with the maiden, like you just said. I was like, oh, like actually, literally you are right. And it's just not sexy to like, it's like ingrained in our psyche that it's, you need to stay maiden
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Young and like desirable physically. It, it's always about the physical. It's very, yeah. I would love to add, this is hadassah, add a point. Um, we live in a uniquely confused culture sexually. We are actually both. Over sexualized and sexually repressed. So not only is this thing that you guys are discussing where the sexuality and this specific kind of young femininity is sort of imposed on women through their whole lives. And this includes young girls, very young girls. We also don't ever have anybody teach us the social emotional skills to handle. natural, healthy sexual attraction without it being this heavy, loaded, even kind of dirty evil, sometimes dark weightiness to it instead of just attraction is normal and biological, and even interest in other people, on some emotional levels is natural, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Other than that. We have this huge sort of oppressive weight that we give to it, and so we're not teaching our kids how to handle. you know, youth without sexuality and we're also not teaching our young women, our young adult women, our young mothers, how to process their sexuality in the context of either being single or of a married woman or a mother. All these different roles, we just we're not getting educated and.. There's no one modeling how to do that well. So we have these models of older women who are stuck in this maiden role and wanting to be changing their bodies and staying young. And then we have women that are the opposite and want to shame and hide their femininity because they don't know how to express it in a healthy way.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:all the light bulbs. I probably haven't trained anything. Uh, like it's just so interesting. I'm like, this is all I, I, I honestly like, whoa. That's all I'm gonna say. I'm gonna have to deep dive into, we're gonna have to have, have a part two of this
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I was gonna say, I feel like now we're like, partly I wanna dive in, dive into sexuality, but I know the topic we're really discussing is being like our friendships are relationships with the opposite sex . So I don't wanna segue
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:aren't they connected though?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Oh yeah.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Hadassa is like, yes. but I think so. I love what you, you said Hadassa like attractions. Super normal. Which is why, I mean, personally, I feel like we have to have boundaries that are., like 50 se steps before you've ever gotten to a place that is for instance, you know, that's like an affair. You can't have a boundary like one step before an affair. You have to have a boundary way back here because we are drawn to people and attracted to people. It's a natural thing, thing, and there's nothing inherently wrong. But what you do with that attraction, whether you repress it and pretend it's not real, or whether you act on it, both, neither of those things are gonna help, right?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:My mind is just still kind of like blown Hadassah said such good things because like I'm Latina and so I'm probably gonna segue this. You guys can bring it. But everything dropped when she was talking because I remember, my mom being super, super protective, maybe overly protective. I've done the same thing. I think we've, I've shared, I don't know if I've shared on the podcast about how like we've almost scared our kids into like, oh my gosh. Um, if somebody's playing doctor with you, make sure you run and tell me. Just because things happen to me in my past and I've like over. Protected. Maybe my children. But anyway, what I wanted to say is , you saying that we don't know, give our children ways to feel like, oh, You have attraction, that's normal. I resonated with that so much because I remember feeling ashamed as a little kid and , like my mom being hyper, like always watching me kind of like waiting, thinking that maybe I was a highly sexual kid or whatever, I don't know. But I remember feeling like, oh my God, she's watching me. And like, oh my God., I was in trouble for talking to a boy as a young and I was like, it wasn't even a sexual thing, but them putting on a sexual. on me as a child, and then that does give you like a hyper fascination with. That stuff, which led into maybe some of my other, like I, you know, the other episode, the, um, the abortion. How we were just hypersexualized teens cuz we weren't allowed to even talk about it. And then moving into marriage, sex is a really good thing. But then knowing, uh, Christian women that don't have good sex lives like this whole topic is huge . Like, I
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:It is, it's a huge topic. I know. I was gonna say, and then no one talks about that. Yeah, it's, it's very annoying. I think one thing too about the kids is I, my, I have an eight year old daughter, a 10 year old daughter, and a 13 year old son. And my 10 year old daughter, she is, Adorable. She has like a little French pixie cut and she's really into fashion and so she like got a crop top and was wearing it. And we were going to my 13 year old son's baseball game. And I found myself being like, you know Juniper, you probably shouldn't wear your cute crop top to the baseball game because there's gonna be all these older boys and I don't want them like saying things to you. And I like heard myself and stopped and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, No, actually no, because you are 10 and she is not like, she is not in puberty yet. She hasn't started. Nothing about her is sexual as as internally, she is not there. She's not attracted to boys sexually at all, and it is not her responsibility if boys behave badly. who are older and who are developing their sexuality, or is it even bad for them to be exploring that they are developing their sexuality and she's cute. Like I just, I had to stop and was like, I'm really sorry for saying this to you. If you feel comfortable and cute in this outfit, and dad and I have said it's fine for you to wear, wear it, and it doesn't matter what other people do or say, but that is so counter-cultural, especially in the Christian community. There's all of. Women, you are responsible for men's attraction. If you have a large chest, do not wear something that that might show or be accentuated if you have a large butt. Don't wear tight pants to church if you're thin and have a nice figure. Don't wear a small dress that shows that like there's all of this assumption that we are responsible for the fact that men are sexually attracted to women's bodies, as if that's shameful and it's our fault, and that's wrong. Just gonna say it.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Tying into the modesty episode two. Dang.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I know that is inter super, super interesting. So I take a slightly, I totally agree with you, Hadasa, but I also think that, so like we hit an episode on modesty and we talked about, like one thing I talked about was how I really hate that there are very sexualized clothing options for young kids. I think it's weird. I'm like, why or is that available for my young child?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:you define as a sexual clothing item for a child? or sexualized.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I don't know, like a crop top on a toddler I don't know what a crop top is for other than showing their mid drift. Right. What's the point of that? Other than to show off their mid
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:It's cute.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:so, oh, it's adorable. But I think, but I think there, there's definitely like a middle line of., what's the actual intention or purpose behind it? And while we're not at all responsible for the way men behave, and there is a huge, massively wrong. Approach to that in Christian culture, like it's very one-sided, which is a huge problem. But the other side of it is just understanding that our brains work differently than men's brains. So there is that, there's that like partnership and like role as women to say, like, the things I do affect other people. And I understand how men are built differently than me, right? So like for me, and I can tell you disagree, which is totally fine, that's why this is such a fun conversation, right? Because we normally agree on a lot of stuff. So it's fun to have someone on who's like, ah, totally don't agree because there's lots of people listening who don't agree with me. But I think we totally have responsibility and an opportunity to respect other people around us by the way we dress. And so, I don't know, I guess I feel like as a balance,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Can I respond to that?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Of course, please.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:So I, I do agree that it is complicated because there is a difference between men and women. But because I am raising a 13 year old son, my contribution to that is to teach him that women are not objects to be consumed. And it doesn't matter, like to teach him. If you find this girl wearing a crop top, cute, that's fine. She's cute, she's, she's got a nice stomach, whatever. She's not an object for you, so you don't get to. fantasize about her or take a picture of her or any, like I, I have just done so much teaching him that both his attraction of females is lovely and natural and totally appropriate. And also that they are not objects. And I ho like what's hard is raising girls. I have no control over if other moms are having those conversations with their 13. 40 year old sons, right? Like um, or really like eight year old sons and on, right? It starts very young. I can't control that. But that doesn't mean that my girls are then responsible to fill that gap. And I think women have asked. Have been asked to fill that gap because men are not being taught well by their, by their fathers, and by their mothers, and by our culture to be respectful of women's beauty, to cherish it, to treasure it, to protect it. And so women have borne the brunt of that. So a toddler wearing a crop top to me, is not a sexualized object. It is. They're seeing their teenage sister or their mom wear a crop top, and it's cute and they wanna look like them. They wanna emulate them. And so it's just fashion. and it's applying that fashion like a toddler. They're wearing a bikini is hilarious to me, but it's not supposed to be sexual as far as I understand. But it is. I, I agree that it's complicated. I think I just come from a, a more feminist perspective of women have been asked to carry this burden forever, that men are sexual.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I, I like what you're saying. Hadassa it. It's really hard for me, and I don't even know if I can really speak to it because I feel like so much of my, like my desire is to dress cute, and I've always been a really beautiful person, and therefore I've always been shamed for anything I've worn. I'm not trying to be like, oh, I'm beautiful, but no matter what, I can't. I've Thank you. I've never been able to act correctly, so everything is triggering. Like if I, if I do dress modestly, to be honest, I feel a little bit bitter that I'm like, oh, some said person who, for whatever reason, somebody else doesn't deem as attractive, which is stupid, and maybe it's own conversation, isn't going to get the hate that I. For wearing something el so this is gonna end up being a modesty talk instead. And, and therefore, even if I wear a brown paper bag and I'm hanging out with the opposite sex, I've already met with people who are already cautious that I'm trying to steal their husbands if I smile and talk to them and I'm engaging. So, My whole life has like, I just don't even know how to speak to this because it is so triggering to be a woman with a body who has grown up in church and has to act a certain way, be responsible a certain way, and then have desires this another certain way, and then feel like those desires must be shameful and wrong. I always feel wrong. I always feel shame., I. Feel horrible. And so I don't know what to speak to any of this because I'm just like, okay, I guess I need to be modest or no. Yeah. I guess like I'm a very, I'm a very open person to what people think. Not easily swayed, but just like, oh, I, I hear your perspective. I love to hear perspectives. But I tend to not do what I want. It's, it feels like I'll just like, okay, I guess if this is really makes you feel comfortable, I'll do this. Or if this makes you feel comfortable, I'll do this. But to be honest, like if I'm over there, at the gym, I'm in my crop top working out and I'm just like, oh crap. Like,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:like crop tops. I think they're cute.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I do too. I do too. I know I'm, and I know this spiraled into a bigger conversation, but it speaks to what you're saying. Like, I have had so many people put every, all of their opinion on me, and I'm like, I guess feel what you wanna feel, guys. I know I love the Lord. And hopefully when I meet him on judgment day, he's gonna be, he's gonna say, well done. Good and faithful servant
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah. I, I feel, I feel you, Nicky, cuz it does, it feels like a lose losee and Yeah. I mean, what can you do where we have to try our best
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I know, I, I feel like I'm losing all the time.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I think what's interesting about this and how it actually is connected to the original topic is that a couple things. One is that we, in all the things, these things we have to seek after God's heart about it. So it's not about. Well, here's how I'll say it. In my opinion, it's not really a feminist issue. It's because when it becomes a feminist issue, it becomes men's problem. But actually, we were built to be in community, right? We were built to all like bury each other's stuff and, and behave in such a way that is seeking after a God's own heart. And so, just like the way we dress or the way that we. you know, recognize that both men and women have an obligation about the way that they interact, like our relationships with men once we are taken, whether that's in a dating relationship or engaged or married, like our relationship with the men. Also, it's about like, what is, what is God's heart around it? What are great boundaries that create the best outcomes? You know what I'm. I think it's, I do think it's connected. I mean, certainly sexually is connected, but also just generally like the way that we behave with each other, the way we behave with the opposite sex matters. And we all have different opinions about where that lands or what that means, or whose responsibility it is, but it does matter. Right? And it's worth talking about. So
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:it feels connected,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I feel like it ties in really well because there's the question in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender of both. Experience and heart. And so, you know, I'm a youth leader at our church and I co-lead with a man and we have meetings at coffee shops and we're doing planning and we always meet in public places, but there's, there's the chance that people are watching us and assuming something that isn't, and I can't control that at all. And there are also men that I interact with that I find attractive., but that is at that moment for me, if I, if there's a physical attraction to a man, that is an experience. What I do with it in my heart is where it can go north or south. Right? And so, . I think the reason I did that long rant about the sexualization of our culture is that my brain naturally, if I feel physically attracted to a man, flips out like, warning, warning, evil, sin, darkness. I'm an adulterous in five minutes because of my head. You know, there's all this like terror and fear because I don't know how to. I was never taught how to manage. Like you just think he's attractive. Move on. That's it. Right? And so I've had to train myself if I find someone attractive to.. Yes, I do. Moving right along and it doesn't become anything else. It doesn't become a thorn in my side that I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm at church and there's a man next to me that I've, you know, like it, it doesn't have to be this whole like, scary, dramatic thing. But then in relationship, I think is where the., the difficulty is, mm-hmm. So I think we assume attraction immediately leads to relationship, and it really doesn't because as you all know, we can be attracted physically, relationally, spiritually, emotionally, and all different ways to different men. And so if you're in a friendship with a man, whether you find him physically attractive or not, if you find that your heart needs are being drawn to him or you're, or you're wanting him to meet an emotional need or a relational need, you're not getting in your marriage like, That's not safe. So I don't even know if the question is, should you have friendships with people of the opposite gender? But it's more like where is your heart in that friendship? And then of course we have the application of wisdom, which is the vaigest thing in the Bible. Like is wisdom in this moment? What is wisdom in this relationship? What is wisdom in this situation? And if you figure that one out, let me know.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I like what you said, about just acknowledging to yourself Hadassa, , oh, I'm attracted, because I think it speaks to a very base level of like, bringing something to light, in ourselves. We are already, like you said, denying something cuz we are taught this is wrong, but it's our biology, like you said, there's nothing wrong with that. And it, I might be almost the, the very first step in bringing darkness to light and being like, yep, I'm attracted to that person. Move on. You've already acknowledged it, you've accepted it, you've moved on. Instead of somehow where we've perverted it, like, oh my gosh, my body in itself is sinful. No, God created us in his image. Therefore, it is an automatic human response. You know, acknowledging God, thank you that I have feelings, emotions, and then move on. So almost at the very conception of thought, we are already allowing the enemy to win by giving birth to sin, by not just admitting. Like, oh yeah, that person's attractive. And it's interesting that you said you've trained yourself. I didn't even think about it that way, but I am, I think a highly sexual person with attractions and I have had to train myself, oh yeah, that guy is cute. Move on. So when you said that, I was like, oh, I've done that even without being taught. But it took, uh, what's it called, self. when you're
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Control
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:reflection.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:self-reflection. Thank you. Because I think there was times where I was like, oh my gosh, that guy is so cute. And like, you kind of like go down like the little rabbit trail in your mind, but I, you know, having to just be like, oh yeah, he's cute. Move on. Period. So I really like what you said about, that because I. at Christianity gets so dark so quickly because everything is a sin. And then we right away we're like, oh, he's cute. And all of a sudden that's like,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:We feel lots of shame. Yeah. Sin brings lots of
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah. Yeah. So I really, I, I love what you said about that, because if we can just be like, yeah, he's cute, move on. All of a sudden it removes the mystery, the allure, the hiddenness, the it, it removes the darkness. And all of a sudden you're not caught up in an affair,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I wanna throw a Disnic view at myself really quick,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:you don't do it. I.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:came up when Amy was sharing one of the last couple times you were sharing. I thought of, and I cannot think of which book it's in, I apologize, but there's a portion in the New Testament where Paul is talking about, he's talking to, I believe it's the Gentiles about. No, I can't remember. I'm sorry. I can't remember the exact contest, but I know that the point is they were talking about eating kosher or not, and he was sort of saying like, it actually doesn't matter. You can eat whatever you want, eat. However, if this is a sin to them, let them be, they don't have to eat meat to be in God's grace. Right? And so it, it does make me reflect on. if something is a stumbling block or feels sinful or it feels like it. inspire sinful thoughts in someone. Like how, what is our responsibility in being either modest or cautious in friendship or whatever it is? And I don't have an answer, but it's a complexity that I thought I, I should just throw in. No, I like that I, what that makes me think of is, you know, avoiding the appearance of evil. So like Hadassa was talking about how she meets with this co-leader in like in public places. I, I would say, right, that's appropriate. Maybe. Just avoiding the appearance of evil. That's what it makes me think of.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Uh, although we did bring up the one hadas referring to in the modesty talk, I think it's in Corinthians, it's like, therefore if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again so that I will not cause them to fall. But it all, you know, it, it's not the thing that you're eating that makes you unclean. It's the thought, the words proceeding from your, from your mouth. Um, and I remember that we brought that up during the modesty talk. We're like, well, if we're around people that we know it's gonna make them fall, then you know, if you know your brother has an issue.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:but how are we as women, like how can we handle that when it's societal, Mm-hmm.. And that's where I go back to like how I raise my son is my only contribution I can make. Because all I can do is teach him to do the same thing I've taught myself, which is if you find a woman sexually attractive, Acknowledge it and move on. That's it. Like, that's all I, I, that's the only contribution I feel that I can make to balance it out is to teach him to do the same thing so that the females in his life are not responsible for his sinful thoughts.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I think where we get in trouble is that all of a sudden we wanna control what everybody's doing. And really all we can do is take personal responsibility and as mothers move into the matron role and teach our children. Like, Hey, like this is what you're responsible for, and help them break off Shame that I've had so many times where men have spoken you did this, and I'm like, whoa. I was not trying to allure like I'm, what? What you're doing on Saturday night has nothing to do with how you're, it's not my fault how you're looking at me on Sunday morning, bro.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah. Yeah. I think well, and, but there's also, there's, this is why I think boundaries matter, right? Boundaries matter with anything. So like if I go out. in two examples, we'll tie them together. And then two examples. If I go out in a super low cut shirt, what is, what is my purpose for my boobs to be seen? I have great boobs. right, so the question is like, what responsibility do I bear for, , for people seeing my boobs some
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:an issue if you lived in many other parts of the world. Throughout all of human history, there are women,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Well, I think the
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:there are young women who bear their chests freely in public all the time, and it is not seen as sexual because they don't live in oversexualized cultures.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:you know, she has a point. When I went to Panama, when I was like 15, a mom pulled out her breast to nurse, a four year old at the bus stop, and I was like, I remember being like, oh, Oh my. And this is back when I was 15. That was almost 20 years ago, or 20 plus years ago. Oh my gosh.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I did. I.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:And I remember, and back then moms were shamed in the US for nursing in public. I mean, you
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Oh yeah. I didn't wanna bring it into the topic, but when Hadassa was speaking a minute ago, I thought back to when I was a young mother. My kids are now like 16, 13, and 10, so it's been a long time since I've nursed. But we never just popped our boobs out in church. We owe it. You wore like a nursing cover or you know, you did it very discreetly. There were still men in that church who verbally complained. Constant.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Which is ridiculous. That's totally ridiculous. Yeah, and I totally see what you're saying, hadda, but I think we also just have to recognize the culture we're in. And also there's a whole conversation around. Like whether or not those cultures in other places are biblically based or not. And like, there's a lot of about this conversation, but either way we do bear some responsibility. But the same thing in our friendships. So I don't know. Do you guys have boundaries around your relationships with guys? Because I've found not only for myself, but for everyone involved. Like if I meet a new guy, one of my boundaries is I don't just text them privately because I'm in part responsible for the impression they get out of my behavior with them. Not only am I responsible for how I interact in that and how I'm thinking about that, that one-on-one conversation, but I'm also responsible for the, what that cue is to them, right? About this relationship. So like one of my things is that I try for, I wouldn't say a hundred percent, I'd say 90% of the time, if I'm texting, a guy. I include Chad in the chat, or if I'm texting someone who's married, I'll include that person's wife. Like I'm a friends with couples, not individual men. Right. Or even, I don't know. I have lots of boundaries like that. Like I try really hard to be friends with a man and a, and, and a woman, like a wife couple, as opposed to me just being friends with the husband.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I hear what you're saying. Um, I think, Amy, you're maybe a little more conservative than me. I. Don't . I don't think that I ever, I can't think of a time that I've been since married, become friends with a man that I wasn't also friends with his wife, because that seems kind of weird. Do I have male friends from before my marriage that I'm still friends with? And it, you know, and I know there's significant other, but it's really more me and him. Yes. That's like kind of a different thing. I feel like what you were talking about, but I to say that I would never text them individually like I. I have mess both of your husbands. I was gonna say, I've messaged both of your husbands before and it's not often, like I'm not, I'm way closer with you two than I am with either of them, but to say that I never text them privately is not true. I, uh, me, Chad texts me goofy things all the time and I'll be like, that's hilarious or that's weird. I text Scott about woodworking stuff sometimes. Like, I'm not gonna say, I will never message a man privately. I mean, yeah,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:So let me give an example of what, I mean, let me give context. Okay. Here's what actually that, where that, that rule, cuz I was thinking about preparing myself. I'm like, what are my boundaries? What are my rules? What are things I do naturally? Not because they're rules, right? So I was thinking about the other day, I co-lead on a worship team with, um, a guy and you know, I'm friends with him and his wife. But he, we had some things that were kind of personal, we were talking about. So I messaged, I texted him later to ask him a follow up question about that, and as I was texting him, I thought to myself, I need to make sure this is a short conversation, because it's a very personal thing for him. He's, he's confiding in me about something and it would not be appropriate for. To, for us to now have this new habit of like texting about personal, like heartfelt things that would be super inappropriate. So in that, in that context, it would've been smarter if I had texted him and his wife just to keep that whole conversation above board. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about like, Hey, here's this random thing I'm talking about, like, kind of like what Hadassa said
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I was gonna say, I wanna say right, it goes kind of to what Hadassa said, it's, it's really, really all about wisdom in the situation. And I know I talked about this with modesty, but I would say it's the same in this aspect with relationship with the opposite sex. I, in both of those really use my husband. Hugely as a gauge. Like, do you think this is inappropriate? Because he's a man and I would hope, I don't know, especially cuz we are connected, we are the two connected. Like he would give me, I don't know, gage, anyways. Yeah, I feel like there's, what's hard is, I don't think, like what you're describing is, A wise reaction to, to a catch you experienced in that, right? Like, I'm doing this thing, it's a natural follow up. We had a conversation, but it's not inappropriate. However, I wanna make sure there's no chance. Right? Which is both maybe not possible on hi, you can't control his end. How he emotionally engages with what you say and also what other people think. But I think for me, I do a similar thing where sometimes I find myself in situations and I go, Hm. Is this okay? Mm-hmm.. And I think that as long as we're listening to that, and I'm assuming it's the Holy Spirit, right? Like I, I think as long as we're listening to that, that that is applying wisdom. Because if that happens with me, like I actually work at our church and I have constant one-on-one conversations and meetings with men all the time, both at our church, in public places, on porches, uh, on the phone, texting, zooming. I mean, it's not like I do that a lot. There have been very few times where I've felt like, Hmm. And when that happens, usually what I'll do is I'll like tell my husband about the conversation or if I wanna follow up with the man, I do it at church while everybody else is like walking around, I'll be like, Hey, how is this situation that you mentioned at our meeting? Or whatever. And I think what's hard is this is such a gray area, and it's so much about our intent. And what I believe is that God honors our intent. And so even if we end up in conversations or situations that maybe. Past what our normal boundaries or our normal rules are. I think as long as our heart is there and we're catching those moments and saying, okay, I want to redirect this, or I want to re put a fence around where this was going, that God honors that intention.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:speak exactly to what you're saying, Hadassa, that it is a, we said this several times on different podcasts. It goes back to a heart issue. Because I don't think I have. Actual rules, but you know when you're hanging out with somebody and all of a sudden you get the look from them or they give you the vibe. I've had that happen so many times where I've just been my normal friendly self and all of a sudden other person's given the vibe and then I'm like shutting it down and then I'll. Then I say, say to Scott, Hey Scott, this is Scott's my husband. This is the conversation I had. And all of a sudden there was a vibe letting you know, and then this is what I did to shut it down. So it again, it's like if we create actual rules, I feel like then we're being legalistic to control other people. It creates all the shame. But I do think we have to listen to the Holy Spirit and exercise wisdom. When you have the nudge that is the Holy Spirit, that is the moment that you don't have to be crazy, you. Put a little bit of a boundary. Like I, you know, I've been working out and I'm like, oh my gosh, great job. You look, you're doing so good. You've gotten fit, which might sound flirty, but it's something that I actually would just say, , and then all of a sudden the posture changes and I'm like, oh. I was like, yep, I'm gonna go. My husband and I are getting ready for a date. You have a great day. Keep working out.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I love my husband so much.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:like I'll say it to a woman too. Do you know what I mean? Like
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:husband name, drop
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:yeah. Oh, the, the name drop or the, all of a sudden I'm like, You took that not the way that I was laying it down.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:what I mean, back to the sexuality, like you don't always know, you can't control the way people are gonna take things. Right. Just being friendly can be perceived as flirty for sure. and to be totally honest, I live in Nashville, Tennessee, which even though Tennessee itself is extremely conservative and not a place that I generally prefer, Nashville is fairly liberal. And I actually am gonna throw something new in here. I don't know if this is okay, but I get hit on by women more than I get hit on by men. I do. I don't know why I give a vibe apparently. So , so. I, you know, for me as, as a female white woman, like am I responsible as I walk through all of Nashville, Tennessee to be constantly pre ing myself about everybody,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:So unhealthy.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:anybody? Or can I just move through my life and if I find only myself in a situation where my heart is, Twisting in a direction it shouldn't go. That's when I gather those things together. Or am I supposed to take every step through every day with every human interaction and going, am I making sure I'm not this, or am I not vibing that or am I not? And Nikki, what you were saying as a beautiful woman at a gym, working out, being friendly to people, you're probably perceived as flirting whether you're being friendly or not. And that's totally unfair.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:It's totally unfair. So I mean, I'm constant, like not constantly. I've definitely had to check how I work out now. I just put the headphones on and work out. But even one tiny little friendly interaction, one, and people are like, oh, you can catch the vibe change right away. And you're just
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:yeah.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:think anything like that would be hard, like if you were approaching anything that way where you were constantly afraid of, of tripping up. and I actually, I do think some people live their faith that way. Some people are just constantly afraid of making a mistake, which is a super not freeing place to be like, that's not what Jesus was about. Like he was about the freedom and like the grace and all the good stuff. I have recently come into a super interesting, like a new area for this, which is virtual work with vendors. And it's like because we're doing so much work in the virtual space, it's this totally new, I don't know what to call it,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Location,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah, it's like, it's like location, but it's not. Right. So it's weird, but, so I have this one vendor who, he's a Christian. He does really, really good work. We've been working together now for maybe 18 months, something like that. Um, we have a lot of, we agree on like a lot of child rearing, stuff like that. His wife is a stay-at-home mom. They have five kids. And so earlier in our vendor relationship, he mentioned. You know, here's my wife's number. She homeschools, if you're interested in, in chatting with her about that. Never texted her cuz I wasn't gonna be doing homeschooling at the time. And so recently we've become more friends than just vendors. But we spend a lot of one-on-one time on Zoom chats. And I, yeah, I had, it was like kind of that thing you're talking about Hadassa, where you're like, there's a thing here and. We need to put some fences around it so that it's never anywhere even close to anything that's ever inappropriate. and so it was a great opportunity cuz I dug that phone number back out and I texted his wife and you know, I said, Hey, like let's talk. And he said, Hey, I'm really glad he reached out. And I was like, yeah, I actually, it's really important to me that as we become friends, that I get to know your wife because I wanna be friends with both of you, not just you. But that was a really weird new. I'm still, there's like a word I'm looking for, but I don't know. I'm wondering if other people, I'm sure other people are running into this kind of like issue
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, , I, I've been thinking about lots of things that I would maybe say about this, so this is where my thoughts were going on. Friends with the opposite sex. Um, I grew up in a family where, My mom and dad were always very inclusive. If I had a best friend, if my sister brothers ever had a best friend, they like immediately love them. And you guys have met them, like they, they want if, if she's my family, she's their family. And that's , so that's how I've been raised. So I often feel that way when I meet my siblings friends, which is not an issue when it's girls like your sister's friends. But then, and it's not, I wouldn't say it's an issue , but. In the context of being friends with right men, especially as a married woman. My brother Micah, some of his very, very best friends from college, I only met when I was married, but because they were like his very, very best friends, they were his groomsmen and his married. I'm like, I immediately love you because Micah loves you. I immediately love you. But because they're men, , and I'm a married woman, it's, I immediately love them like a brother. Like I wanna treat them like one of my brothers. But. not knowing, right? If, if certain actions or behaviors are gonna be seen as flirty or more as like, I just love you,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:should totally have a guy on here and revisit this. We should have your, we should have one of your brothers on here. And here's the really interesting thing. Earlier on in our, in my, your relationship with me, Candace, I remember judging, like thinking that maybe you were flirty, but then I saw your interactions with your own brother and they're not flirty. That sounds so gross on here, but you're just, you are just affect. But you're one of those women that is very beautiful. You have one of, you know, you're, you're bodacious, you're, you know. Well, what I'm saying is that like, I wonder if we had a guy perspective on here because I trained myself like, nope. Can Candace is affectionate and she loves people, and it's the people's. But I have seen men turn your kindness into flirtation back to you, which again, is not your responsibility. Um, how so? But however, What I feel like, um, what I think a lot of women that are very conservative are saying it is your responsibility, but I wouldn't agree with that. Like, it's not fair. You're a beautiful woman who's affectionate
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:and what, what, yeah, what you were saying, Nikki, when you get the vibe, and I, and I've never gotten that vibe from any of my brother's best friends. I, but when you get the vibe, and I will say I do think sometimes when meeting, like, so just recently, one of his best friends that we've known forever now, I would consider him, yeah. Like semi like family, invite us to his wedding. And I often wonder because she's like, she's new to the group now, right? So what does she, what, what does the woman think of this like, You know what I'm saying? I, I hope nothing but
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:and that's our responsibility. Like I had to navigate the waters of like, oh, can like, you know, oh, Candace is flirty. But then l knowing who you were and learning who you were and realizing it was your personality. So we all have personal responsibility to navigate that well, and all I'm saying is I wonder if we had a man on here and heard, Hey, yo, actually when you act like this, I think you're interested in me. I would just be curious to know, and then does that even matter? Do we have to change how we act anyway?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Well, I, I, without having a man on here, and knowing my two brothers and my dad fairly well, again, I think it's a lot of your environment because I would say the three of them almost never think a woman is actually flirting with them. Like they would have to be overtly like, I like you, I want your number. They assume friendliness, like what you see in me is what you get in them. And so they assume that is friendliness. They wouldn't take it
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:See that is so crazy cuz I was raised that friendliness meant you wanted to get down
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:also have never thought of Candace as being flirty, so that's super interesting. Um,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:you, Amy
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:that's fascinating.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I didn't mean it like that, it was just like, I'm, I'm saying she's not, but I'm saying originally Yeah. Ver, you know,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:can I add another facet to this conversation? I think one thing that is important is to consider., where are you in your own marriage? Mm-hmm., because I think that has a huge impact on the wisdom application, right? So, if things are really stable and loving and needs are being met in your marriage. Friendships with the opposite gender are just not complicated. Generally, they're not complicated. It's like we're friends. It's easy. It's not that big a deal. And if you know the same is true on the other side, like this couple, they're solid, they're healthy, their needs are being met. The, the group friendship or even some, a little bit of one-on-one interaction is just not. Whereas if there is anybody in that group that is in a place of need or abandonment or loneliness or whatever it is, like it's a lot harder to maintain health in those one-on-one interactions. So obviously like can't be the discussion today, but I think
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:It's a huge
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:about the ownership of husbands and wives in their, to maintain their own marital health probably has a bigger impact on. This issue even then, like the one, not like the me, am I thinking they're attractive or whatever? Mm. Because it's, to me, it's an issue of idolatry and it's a reflection of our relationship with God. Like if I'm really great with God and my needs are being met and I'm going to Him, and I'm trusting him, and I'm being loved by him, and I'm receiving His grace, I'm not as attracted to idols. I mean, I'm a human, so I, I still am, I'm a human. But if things are rocky or I feel like I'm not close with him, or that he's not loving me or I'm pushing his love away, or whatever it is, like if I'm just nonstop, like, I want this, I want this, I want this. I'm gonna spend all my time obsessing about this. Right? And those are the things I go to meet my needs. And so
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:So good.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:yeah, I think that is hugely important. And then remembering that we can't again control the other side. So maybe this is to Amy's point of like, because we can't know necessarily where this other man is. Do we need to just be more cautious overall because of the heart issue? That is like not something we can even know. Yeah,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:that was super good.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Oh, and I will say, Candace, I don't think you're flirty. I'm gonna throw that out there. I, at the time I was, I think there was a little bit of projection on my part because I feel like you and I are both very similar in how we portray ourselves and because people put it on me that I was flirty. I projected that. Onto you. And now that I've gone some health and some therapy, like now I'm like what people do with what we throw down is on them.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:that makes total sense to me. We're both, I would say curvy ladies and we're both friend, right? And so I never thought that about you, but again, I grew up in a different environment where like friendliness is not flirty. Friendliness is kind.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:I was sexualized from the time I was a young, young person, so I was, everything is like, ah. Oh, thank you. Oh, wow.. Thank you.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:So I think maybe where we all land on this is just that, like everything else, like so many topics we bring up, this is a gray area. We have to, you know, look at our hearts and
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Landon marriage. Yeah. Marriage comes first. I like that. Hadassa. Put that in there like marriage comes first and then out of that, yeah. Flow with wisdom and discernment and Jesus and don't judge each other for landing in different places. Mm. That's good.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Amen. Amen. Amen. This was an awesome conversation, Hadassah, I'm super glad you could be here. You brought such a cool perspective, and it was fun, I think for us to have that. I've wanted that for a while. So I'm excited that we, like this is our first time to be like, yeah, let's have different,
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Please do. We're always like, we agree now what?
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Right. I love it. I love it. I love it.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Yeah, you're gonna hate us.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:but you're gonna love us
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_candace-hqpz4mdrm_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:us.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_nikki-tnspks2sl_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:love us.
conservative-christi_nikki-amy-candace_amy_alexander-s6pjjxv8g_2023-feb-16-1508pm-utc-riverside:Bye guys.