Paul shares insights into his entrepreneurial career in the North East of England and how he overcame many challenges along the way.
With the support of his wife Hazel by his side he started Edwards Commercial Cleaning Services in 2003. This had an approximate turnover of £600,000 and around 60 staff.
About 10 yrs later, Paul then set up a Yorkshire company called Edwards Commercial Cleaning (North) Ltd. The combined turnover is around £4.5million and he now has over 400 staff.
Get ready to be inspired…..5-4-3-2-1.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Connect with Paul Edwards
Connect with Vicki Main - Podcast Host & Co-Author of The Momentum Mindset Book:
LinkedIn Profile
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Website
Click here to purchase a copy of The Momentum Mindset Book
Podcast produced by Livvi Music Media
Paul shares insights into his entrepreneurial career in the North East of England and how he overcame many challenges along the way.
With the support of his wife Hazel by his side he started Edwards Commercial Cleaning Services in 2003. This had an approximate turnover of £600,000 and around 60 staff.
About 10 yrs later, Paul then set up a Yorkshire company called Edwards Commercial Cleaning (North) Ltd. The combined turnover is around £4.5million and he now has over 400 staff.
Get ready to be inspired…..5-4-3-2-1.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Connect with Paul Edwards
Connect with Vicki Main - Podcast Host & Co-Author of The Momentum Mindset Book:
LinkedIn Profile
VLM Instagram
VLM Facebook
Website
Click here to purchase a copy of The Momentum Mindset Book
Podcast produced by Livvi Music Media
So it's really important if you are gonna bring people on, either get some help to do it or take a long process in actually recruiting them. Don't just see them once. Dig, dig a lot so you get the right type of character. If you get a good type of character, you can teach them the industry, but you can't teach them attitude and character and stuff like that. So that's really important. Welcome to the Get Unstuck Fasts Viscosity podcast, brought to you by V L M training and coaching specialists across the UK and Australia, hosted by me, Vicky Mae. Are you a business owner, leader, or executive? Have you ever felt stuck or disappointed where your life or business is heading? Do you ever feel overwhelmed? Compare yourself to others, or feel like you're swimming in Chile at times? This podcast is here to help. Pew get unstuck fast from viscosity to achieving escape velocity and expanding your knowledge. Our guests on the shore will share practical tips and real life experience about how they got out of negative situations or circumstances to live their best life on their terms. We will be sharing real life stories from real people, doing some incredible things. Stay tuned for our next guest. Welcome to season two, episode two of the Get Unstuck Fasts Viscosity podcast. I'm your host, Vicki Maine, and today we have Paul Edwards, managing Director of Edwards Commercial Cleaning Services in the studio, as well as. Leo my puppy as well. So welcome Paul. Thank you very much. Lovely to be here., lovely to hear you. And you be here as well. I'm really excited about hearing more about what you're doing. Yeah, my dog decided he wanted to come in the studio this morning, so he graces us with his presence, so we'll see how he goes. Lovely. Yeah, he's wonderful. Little dog. Paul, we met about 10 years ago now, and at the Entrepreneur's Forum in New Castle. And I've been watching your business grow from afar, and I love when I see entrepreneurs just going out and doing what they love, growing their business and achieving success, whatever that means to them. Mm-hmm., and you've had a really inspiring journey in terms of your career. Can you tell our listeners about what you've been up to and your journey and how you got to where you are now? Sure, of course I can. I'm a people person, really, Vicky. So really when I got myself away from school, I decided to get into something where I was talking to people, meeting people, and I went into sales and I started off by selling jewelry at the Northern Goldsmiths in Lucky Street in New Castle, which is a large local jewelry store. And I was a Whites boy, which is youth training scheme. 35 pound a week. Oh, that's gone back six days a week. Yeah, six days a week for 35 quid. That's what I was working. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But of course, that's not a lot of money. So I left there and I moved on to yeah, the Newcastle in Chronicle Journal, which is the big newspaper in our area, and got a bit more money learnt to sell advertising, and then went from advertising to. Selling a product. Cause I wanted to sell a product that's a couple of years later than that. So I went into surveying equipment, which is completely different, but it's dealing with people and if you're dealing with people, you can sell anything really. Exactly. So we did that, but it was very seasonal and we decided that we should start our own business with a, I was in there with a partner and we decided to give it a go for ourself. I was only 21. Very naive. But anyway, we started up in business and as I say, it was seasonal. So what we did is we bought a furniture shop because that wasn't, So what we did is we moved the surveillance business into the back of the furniture shop and we ran both together. But what we didn't realize was the council decided that they were gonna shut all the car parks down. Oh no. At our end of the city. And we didn't know. We hadn't gone to lawyers, we hadn't done searches, which is again, it's just a life lesson. So the shut everything down and our footfall just stopped, totally stopped. So we had to shut both businesses down. So there I was at about 25 year old, 1989. This was now and. I had no business so I had to go and find myself a job.. Yeah. That must have been really tough at the time. And it, well, it was awful cuz there's a lot of ego involved. There's a lot of humiliation involved. Yeah. Your friends are going, oh, you've got your own business and then the next minute you haven't got your own business. Yeah. And you've got a job. And that was awful time really. And it just so happened that at 1989 in June, I got married to Hazel. Yeah, so of course I've got all this other stuff going on in June with the wedding and stuff, and by October I didn't have a business. Yeah. So I'm looking for a job. Luckily I got a job and I went into car warranties. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm mm-hmm. and I was there for three months and they, on the stock market, they. stopped. They went bump, right? Oh, no. After three months. Oh no. I thought I was a jinx. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was a chix. So that's after three months. So I went into cash carrying, and this is really where I found a niche because I was dealing with people a lot. And then I was running a sales team and I loved all that sort of stuff. And I got promoted. So I was running the north of England and Scotland, but they were based in Scotland. Okay. They wanted me to move to Scotland, right. And my wife went, you know, I'm not going to Scotland. Yeah. Because the kids were here, our family was here and and all that sort of stuff. So they insisted that we sold the house and moved to Scotland. So we had to put the house for sale, even though Mesis was going, we're not moving. We're not moving. Yeah. But the silly thing was we got offers on the house almost immediately. Brilliant. And we went, we're not selling it. Yeah. So the office went up. And they went up. And they went up. And eventually my wife said, I'll tell you what, we're selling the house anyway cause we're , we're getting a lot of money for this. It's lovely. So we moved back to Ponte and that's where our family is. Nice. And that's where the nice nice schools are for the kids to go to school. Cause the kids were just starting to get a little bit bigger now. So we went there, moved to Ponte and that was a dream house really for her. Cause we had a lovely Dutch bungalow and everything. Big garden for her. Yeah. And she loves at gardening. So we did all that and I had to find myself a different job cause. We weren't gonna move to Scotland. So of course I went into franchising, and this is where I found the commercial contract cleaning company of Jan King, who are a franchise company. Huge. They do nearly a billion pounds a year. And I went there as a regional manager looking after the northeast of England. And again, I did well. So it became a divisional manager and I was looking after the North and Scotland again. Okay. So I was never at home. I was traveling all over the place. Yep. But there weren't a very parti. Staff friendly or franchisee friendly type of company to deal with. Some of the meetings that we had were brutal, were awful. And one day, you know, I just said I was on the way back from a meeting at Kingston in London and we got as far as Northampton on the M one, and I just. I thought, that's it. I've gotta get out of here. I've, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. And remember I phoned Hazel and my wife on the way back up and I said, ah, I'm done. I'm done with this. We're gonna have to do it. And I drove the rest of the way home. And when I got home, Hazel said, right, look, I've thought about this and we're gonna sell the house and we're gonna use the equity from the house to start a business. And it was like, wow. So when somebody believes in in you that much, yeah. You just think, wow. And this was a dream house. And you think, oh my goodness. So House went up for sale. I had to put my notice with the cleaning company that I was with, which was a three month notice period, which fit in really well with the house sale. Yep. We sold it almost immediately and the day we were due to complete, and the day that I was leaving the company, the people's house that we were moving into. They withdrew off the market. Oh really? Yeah. Wow. So we were homeless, so we had to move cause we needed the money. We had a new business. Yeah. So we had to move into Hazel's parents bungalow, two bedroom bungalow. They moved out into a caravan in a field. Oh, bless them.. Where her father then promptly had a heart attack. Oh no. Yeah. So we're in a two bedroom with a new business, three kids, and it was just bedlum, honestly. It was absolutely bed. But what can you do? You know? Yeah. And that pretty much is really how we sort of. Got up and running, and then after five years working with another director cuz mm-hmm , a guy from Johnny King actually came with us. We worked together, but after five years we realized we couldn't really work together, so we split the business. 50 50. Right. I took 50%. He took 50%. He kept the original name of the company. We renamed ours, Edwards Commercial Cleaning Services. Mm-hmm. and that's when my wife came in. And that was in 2000. Fantastic. Makes sense. Fantastic. It sounds like a partnership made in heaven, you guys, and you know, credit to Hazel for being able to support you like that. That must have been a really, felt wonderful to have that support from your partner and to be able to, and there's no surprise that you've, you know, like I know we talked about where your business has got to in terms of the reach. Tell our listeners about 60 staff at the time. Yeah. Pat, about 60 staff at the time when we split it. And splitting a business isn't fun. It's a bit like a divorce because it's all about money. Yeah. And it's all about assets and it's all about, you know, what can I have that you shouldn't have? And I'm entitle this a bit more than you entitle this. It was horrible. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, once you split it and you're off away mm-hmm., it was wonderful because Hazel looks after the administration side of the business. Fantastic. And that's what I'm rubbish at. Yeah. I just cannot do the, the payroll and the invoice and the cash collection and stuff. That's not me. Yeah. I need to be out. Yeah. So my side had to be the sales side, it had to be the operational side. Had to be going out and seeing people. Yeah. So that's how you start. And it literally was, I put T-shirt and jeans on and I went out in the morning and I cleaned and then I came back, jumped the shower, put a suit on, went out and knocked doors, give people quotes. Fantastic. Then came back, stuck me t-shirt and jeans went out and cleaned again. Yeah. And when we got too busy, I put a cleaner in and that was it. Yeah. And then when I got really busy, I put like a little. Guy Navin to just do the runaround and the deliveries and the pickups and things to allow me to sell more. And it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And thankfully we've got over 400 staff and we're doing about four and a half million in turnover. That's fantastic. Uh, which is great. And that's where we are. It's such an inspiring story. And all those jobs that you had mm-hmm.. Kind of led you, you know, you took all the experiences and it led you to building a successful business. So credit here, I think it's fantastic. And that's why I wanted you to come into the studio and share your story because, but we haven't finished their listeners. You've always thought about, you've always been entrepreneurial. Yeah. From what you've said, Uhhuh. And do you think the entrepreneurial side's always been there, Paul? Yes. My father had his own business. His friends tended to have their own businesses. Yeah. So you actually could see how things worked and also the hard work that actually went into it. Yeah. But the rewards too. Yeah. So I think it was inevitable, Vicki. Yeah. And you know the, when you were talking about the redundancy after like three months of working for someone else, it was meant to be. It was, in some ways it was absolutely meant to be. So obviously you were from. Meeting you had in Kingston, then you drove back up to the Northeast and you talked to Hazel about how you didn't wanna work there anymore. But what inspired you to set up this business? Was that mainly the crux of it, that you just had enough? Yeah, basically. I thought you could do better. I'd seriously, yeah. I mean, I'd been in the business for quite a while dealing with the sales and operational side, so I knew what I was doing and I knew suppliers. I knew people, of course, I knew the region that I live in and we were working in that as well. Mm-hmm., so. I had a really good idea about what people wanted from this industry, and at the end of the day, Vicky, you're dealing with people. It doesn't matter what industry you're in. Yeah. It's a people. It's a people business. Yeah. And as long as you're good with people and as long as you come across and you've got your core values and people buy into that, yeah. You're flying. Yeah. That. Definitely comes across and I know even on your LinkedIn bio you've got a one-liner which is about helping people to, you probably know the strap line off by hub and that is very much that comes across in what everything that you do as well, Paul. So being in business now for 24 years is super impressive and I. I'm sure there's probably been some real, real highs and there's been some real laws along the way. Was it harder in the earlier years? I know you said you had three kids, you were living in your parents bungalow, but, and then has it been, as people say, the next level has a different devil, and I love that saying because it's so true. And did you find that as you scaled the business. There was different challenges that you faced. Yeah, totally different. So starting a business, it's about you and you're in the business, so you're actually working within the business, not on the business. Mm-hmm., it's totally different and it's something that you've gotta learn and it's something that you've gotta get involved. in. Mm-hmm. something where you need a lot of help. So this is, again, if you're a people person and you know people and you can ask people and you're not shy. Yeah. You can actually say to people, look, I've got a bit of an issue here. I've got a problem here. Yeah. But yeah, it is absolutely different. And if you're gonna take on staff, if you're gonna. Be in the industry where you're recruiting people, you've gotta think the number of relationships. As it gets bigger, it gets really complicated. So you've gotta do things like systemize things, and you have to bring in the right kind of people to work alongside you. Yeah, yeah. And get you, yeah. And get what you're trying to do and buy into the vision. So, . Totally different. Starting out. When you're starting out, you're in it, you're on it, you're working it, you're sweating. It's hard, hard work, and you're just trying to find revenue, not necessarily profit. Yeah, I know it sounds silly, but you just have to get something to get you going. So we took on all sorts of work, which wasn't profitable to be fair, but give us a bit of a reputation and a bit of a name, and then we could go to these people and say, Can you let somebody else know about it? Or do you mind if so-and-so contacts you and just ask what I'm like, yeah, yeah. This sort of thing. And it's just totally different. And then as you get bigger, you get people doing it for you. So I was gonna say, what does the future hold for your business? What's the next steps? You talked about systems, but tell us about what else is, what's in the future? Well, it's growth, it's gotta be growth and it's gotta be giving people opportunity and building the management team and getting. Of the right type of people on board and all this sort of stuff. It's just so important that you build it in the right way. But yes, systems are vitally important. I mean, having a crm, a customer relationship management system in place is vital. Yeah. You know, just so that you know where everything is, everybody knows where everything is. It really. Can see things. If somebody's working at a particular part of the business, they can see how it fits in with the rest of the business and they feel important. That type of thing. Really. And tell us about your son, Johnny. Now I know. So how Paul and I met, we did meet at the Entrepreneur's Forum, but I also taught your son Yeah. Um, business years ago at Gates College and Johnny, he was so enthusiastic back then. I'm sure he is still the same. So tell us, I know Johnny works in the business with you now. What's your plan for Johnny and what does Johnny wanna do in the future? Wow. Well, Johnny, I mean, You walked us around gates to college. That's right. If you remember. I did. Yeah. Yeah. You walked us around. Shop. That's right. You introduced me. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that's a long time ago. Isn't ? That was a fair while ago. It was a fair while ago. So, yeah. So Johnny been in the business really since about the age of 15. He used to help Hazel doing the invoicing, the payroll lease, yeah. Stuff and all that sort of stuff. So he had a really good administrative. Idea of what we were doing and how we were doing it. Good. And of course we worked from home for years. Yeah. So he saw how the business was working and how it was running and he got involved. Yeah. Where he could and things. So we said to him, look, if you're gonna come into the business, you really need to get yourself a business degree. So, He did. I, he went to Gateshead College then onto New Castle College. So he left Gateshead College and went onto New Castle and he got a two one in business. That's fantastic. And this is a kid that at school, they said pretty much wasn't clever enough to do very much at, at all. And you just think, wow, there you go. That's such a shame. That absolutely. Response from people who should know better. They should. and it just goes to show if you're determined to do something and somebody says, look, to get here, you've gotta do that. You can do it. And he went and he got out and did it. And now he's involved in the operational side of the business. Mm-hmm., we've given him a bit of a role and a title for his own, cause he's an Edwards and it's a bit difficult to, so we've given him an area manager role, but he's still reporting into the general manager and he's still getting told what to do and where to do it and he's learning. But as time's gone on, they've given him more and more difficult situations to deal with. Nice for experience and he's dealt with them really, really well. Yeah. And you know, he, his education isn't gonna stop there cuz we need to get him out and get him joined up to entrepreneurs forums and things. He came to his first forum Brilliant about six months ago and he loved it. Fantastic. So it's just really just bringing him through. Yeah, that's great. And I know what you've also expanded. From the Northeast. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, I saw the articles. I was grinning from E at ear because I was just genuinely so happy for you that you were, you guys grown, you're such a lovely family and grown your business and so you've gone from, in terms of the remit, you now across North, the Yorkshire as well in the uk. Down to South Yorkshire. Yeah. So we go down as far as, well all of Yorkshire really. So leads Fantastic. South and Sheffield and all the places in between. Do you plan to venture South more south or do you think it's No, I think we're probably, if we're gonna go anywhere, we're probably gonna head west. Yeah. So we'll probably go across towards Manchester region. Oh yeah. And we'll probably open up there. That's a separate business. Yeah. So we decided to, So that it would have its own sales team. Yeah. It would all have its own operations team down there, but it would share the administrative function with Sure. With the northeast of England. So Hazel and her team who look after all the invoicing and payroll and all that sort of stuff, they share the two companies. So both get done by one place. Cost saving really. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And that's the way to do that. But it down there's got its own operations and sales teams. Yeah. That's brilliant. Yeah. So what is it, what's the main thing you love about being your own boss?. Oh, the independence, I Not being told what to do, where to go. Yeah.. And after working and doing 50,000 miles a year with Janet King and living in hotels. Yeah. And all the rest of it. It's nice just not to do that anymore. And it's nice to be able to go and see the kids when they used to do natti plays and sports days and parents evenings and stuff. And I missed a lot of that when they were young and I was working. Yeah. But I was determined after that. To miss a lot, so that's a good thing from that point of view. Mm-hmm.. But you're building something for yourself and you can see it, and you just know that if you get to a certain point, there is security to an extent. You never know what's gonna happen. Yeah. Viruses come along and of course knock everything, but in the main, you can just see what you're doing. But, so from a personal point of view, it's independence. From a business point of view, I just love. seeing people develop and getting the best outta people that you can. Yeah, you can get out of them. You strike me as someone who could be an exceptional mentor to support other business owners. And I know before I actually moved to Australia. Mm-hmm., if you remember we had a coffee and I said to you, I'm thinking about setting up my own business Paul, and you, you actually gave me some real solid advice and you said, look, if you're gonna do it, if you are interested, cuz at the time. I didn't know what I was gonna do and um, I just knew that I wanted to work for myself, create more value and solve problems. And I remember you said to me, if you're gonna work in an industry, make sure you go and even just get a part-time job or work in that industry. Now, little did I know, I'd been teaching for years and little did I know I was actually. Going to set up training companies and go from there. So what your advice was spot on is knowing your industry and your field, and I think that's because some entrepreneurs go out there and they admit transferrable skills is fantastic, but knowing your industry, knowing your stuff, you had those years of working with Johnny King. Yeah. To be able to know. What not to do and then to build it from there. So that was great advice. So thanks for that. By the way, , you've done canny as they say. You've done really well. Uh, I've got lots of experience building businesses and helping on other entrepreneurs, but you know, I think for me, building a business in Australia and also in the uk. There have been times cuz you're building brands in different markets and different, you know, you building a brand, it takes time. But with anything, like I said earlier, you know, every level has a different devil and there's different things. But I love what you said, it's like freedom versus comfort and being able to choose. And I know it was lovely when, you know, you were saying you, you'd been down to watch the New Castle game at the weekend at Wembley. Ah, yes. And yeah, I bet it was a fantastic atmosphere. Sadly, I, I couldn't get tickets for that one, but it looked amazing., did you have a good time? It was fantastic. Apart from the football result, it was very, very good. I watched it on tv, so , it's coming. It's coming. The sleeping giant as they're walk. Yeah. Yeah. So your big new castle fantasy here by the accents and the Yeah, me too. And, no, that was great. So what would you say, talking about fears most, some people are fearful of, Things like rejection, failure. Some people are even afraid of massive success, which can almost block them from growing their business or living their best life. What are you fearful of, Paul failing, right. It's probably going back to the sort of the 21 year old who settlement business in a furniture shop and, and all that sort of stuff. That time was. Bloody awful. It was terrible. And you know, as things spiraled, cause that's what happens. It starts somewhere and you just think, oh, this isn't gonna go well. Yeah. And then it just goes down and down and down. Mm-hmm.. And you're in this sort of this, I don't know, it's something that you cannot do very much about and it's out of your control and that's scary. Yeah. And once it got to that sort of, that stage, And we had to shut the businesses down. You've just gotta think, well, what do we do next? Do you sort of cool up into a ball and do nothing, or do you sort of stick your big boy pants on and go, right? Yeah. Okay. Next challenge is, and what I've learned over the years is failing's just a lesson. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with it. and people fail all the time in all sorts of different things. Yeah. And this again, goes back to school. If you're not in band one and you're in band two, you're a failure. Mm-hmm.. If you don't get an A star and you get an A, you're not as good as the people above you who got an A star. Mm-hmm.. And really, you know, it, it doesn't matter. I mean, I didn't go to sixth form, I didn't go to college and university, you just have to learn it a different way. So you know, you've just gotta get on.. Yeah. And love what you do as well. Absolutely. And having fun is definitely something that I know certainly in your business, it comes across that you actually genuinely enjoy what you do as well, so that's great. Love it. Tell me, what do you think any listeners on the show, or maybe people who are looking to set up their own business or leave employment, or maybe just looking to expand in new markets, what would you say would be top skills that they would need to have to be able to help them grow their business? If you're gonna grow a business, the people that you're getting around, you've gotta be a class players. These are people that. Don't take an awful lot of management, but get you a result. They're not toxic, you know what I mean? You get the people who they do get you result, but they're plumbing hard to manage, you know? Or they do your damage or they do stuff that they go rogue on you. Yeah. And they just don't get what you're trying to do and they don't have your core values and things like that. So it's really important if you are gonna bring people on, either get some help to do. Or take a long process in actually recruiting them. Don't just see them once. Dig, dig a lot so you get the right type of character. Yeah. If you get a good type of charact and teach them the industry, but you can't teach them attitude and character and stuff like that. Yeah. So that's really important. The other thing as well is you've gotta get them to be solutions people rather than problem people. So you know, the people who come to you and say, oh, I've got a problem. All I do now is flip it back and say, so what would you do about it? And get them thinking about. What the options are and then talking to them about the options, and then it becomes a lot more positive. Yeah. You know, things, stuff like that. Communication. A hundred percent vital. A hundred percent. And the bigger you get, the more you have to communicate. Yeah. And you've gotta, again, it's systemizing things so that people understand and the, yeah. I guess it sounds like Hazel was. The backbone to be able to put all those systems in place, like a lot of the invoicing and all of that as well. It sounds like these were much made in heaven to be able to actually grow your business and play to your strengths as well. Absolutely. As a team. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, so you know, she put all SAGE systems mm-hmm. And all this sort of stuff, and then the sales put in the CRM system. Right. And then we. Built portals for clients so they can get on there and see what's going on in their own businesses and things like that. We're developing an app, you know, one thing after another, and these communications are just to help people along the way. Yeah, yeah. And also to make it easier for me to actually run the business. Yeah. So I've got a dashboard. So I can actually see what's going on. Yeah. Without having to micromanage. Yeah. Cause the worst thing is I think a lot of people have been in businesses where they're micromanaged, you know? Yeah. What are you doing today? Yeah, exactly. When you've done it, will you come and tell me how it went and all this sort of stuff and it drives you crazy and you don't need that. Yeah. So it's best if you get the good people and then you can give them responsibilities and then you manage via KPIs and, and systems and dashboards and do what you need to do and then you can tinker with it. You know? I think that's probably the other thing, but the hottest thing for me personally is delegation. It takes a long time to trust people to Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, but you've been in the business for a long time. Mm-hmm. And you, I'm sure you see the warning signs or the red flags pretty quickly. You can, that tends to be experience. Yeah. I think that's more experience than anything else, but yeah, delegation's hard because it's so easy to say, you know, I want you to do that, and then you think I can do that in 10 minutes myself. Should I just do it myself? And not, but you can't, you just cannot do it. No. You've gotta trust them to do it. Yeah, exactly. You know, you've gotta give them the support to do it. Of course. Whatever, whatever it may be, of course. But it's important that you actually give people responsibility and let them, let 'em find their way. So do you have like a big management team, or do you sort of, and they just, you just sort of oversee the strategic side. Now, with my job in life, really the way I describe our business is a pyramid. Yep. But it's upside down. Yes. So the pointy bits at the bottom, and that's where I am. Yeah. And the big flatty bit at the top is all of our cleaning operatives and all the, all the managers and stuff that get out there and do the hard work and they're the people that the clients see and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, of course. So all our job is to support them. Yeah. So I'm supporting haslin who, admin and sales and operations General manager. Mm-hmm. who, who looks after the operations team, who looks after them, and it just goes up that way. Yeah, fantastic. You should write a book about all your experience, Paul. I'm sure there's lots of entrepreneurs. Would love to read that. And you know, I'm sure you've got lots of life lessons and being in business that you could share for sure. So what would you say has been the bravest or scariest thing you've ever done? Scariest thing that the first thing that comes to mind personally. Is when I asked Hazel's dad for permission to ask to marry a do all right , I shook like a leaf. I'm not really a nervous type of person. Mm-hmm. that I shook like Ali, I was terrible, honestly. But that was the hardest thing and scariest thing I've ever done. But I mean, coming into business, quitting a well page. Job handing back your company car? Yeah. Giving up the paycheck to start something from scratch. Mm-hmm. with nothing. Mm-hmm. and a higher car. Mm-hmm. is pretty scary. Luckily, I mean, I think we mentioned it before. I mean, we'd sold a house or had the equity from the house to live on and we knew that worst case scenarios, we probably could go six to eight months without taking any money out of a business. And we did that rather than get loans. Yeah, because we had to then pay loans back. Yeah. So we thought, well, if we just use the equity from the house, we can do it a different way. And there's less stress on us then. Yeah, of course. And so that's what we did, and that's what we built. And I think that's probably the scariest thing we've done. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, and it just, you know, getting into your own business. It's scary. Yeah. I mean it bloody hard work and it's a risk, and of course it is. And I mean, you know, going back to when I was this 21 year old and we had two businesses shut. Mm-hmm., it's a hell of a risk, you know? But if it's in you, it's in you. And if you want to make a crack of it, then it's in your hands. Yeah, no, that's brilliant. So what motivates you now to get outta bed every morning? responsibility. I mean, we've got a team of 13 managers, they're open and they work down hard. Yeah. You know, and they do what they need to do and I need to be there to support them. And because we're in the industry that we're in, and you know, we started sort of five o'clock in the morning mm-hmm., and then don't finish till 10 o'clock at night. Of course. Type of industry. Yeah. You've gotta be around for them or contactable for them. I've gotta be visible, I've gotta be around, I've gotta sort of take them out for coffees and bring them in for meetings. And you know, our management meetings are amazing. I mean, you've got 13 people there who are loving it. I mean, the last meeting that we actually had, we'd gone through a bit of a, we had a member staff leave and they left all of a sudden and it left a big hole in the operations and the way that they actually came together and it filled what they needed to fill and got done what they needed to. Mm-hmm.. And we let nobody down. It was amazing. And I stood up that last meeting and my first slide was, thank you. I got a bit sort of choked. Aw. And you just think, wow, you know, isn't it amazing to actually have the responsibility of looking after these people? And these people are, they're just buy in so much, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's lovely. And that you actually, you care about your staff as well, and that comes across and I think it's, and there's a lot of, it's very inspiring here in that it really is, and I'm sure there's people out there who maybe aren't in jobs or they're in environments where, They're not, well, not necessarily well thought of, but they might be in a situation where they're really struggling and they're not feeling valued. What would you suggest to those people? Slimy. It's so hard cuz I've been there. Yeah. And you've gotta weigh up the risk and the reward. Really. Yeah. You've gotta look at., is it worth me moving? Mm-hmm., is it worth my mental health Staying? Yeah. Is it worth the, all the trials and tribulations? I mean, the last big meeting that I had when I was with Janet King down in Kingston was brutal. Mm-hmm.. They were shouting in your face and pointing in your face and all that. So it was horrendous. And I mean, I'm not saying that people need to suffer that sort of stuff before they make a decision to go. No, of course. Of course. But there's different things they can do. I mean, obviously you can change your job. Mm-hmm. But you're still working for people. Mm-hmm.. As I always looked at it, I'm still making somebody else rich. Yeah. I'm still giving them the holidays and the time off with the families. Sure, sure. And I'm working through it. Sure. It's a really difficult one. It's gotta be in you. You've gotta want to be able to do it, and you've gotta believe in yourself to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And if you believe in yourself and it, especially for other people, believe in you too. Yeah. Uh, you're on a winner. Yeah. No, that's great advice. Thank you. So I'm curious, have you ever had a mentor or coach as you've gone on your business journey? Biggest regret I've got in business is that I didn't get a coach earlier. Right. When you're in business, even though I'm in business with Hazel mm-hmm., it's very difficult for me if I've got an issue. to go down the pub and see my mates and go, God, I tell you what happened with a payroll this week, , you know, or I've got somebody who's not really performing particularly well and I'm not terribly sure what I should do with it. The clay's over. Yeah. So you need someone to go to and talk with and suggest with and bear your soul too. Yeah. I mean, yes I have. I've had a coach now since. Oh, about three years ago, an now, which is really late, I mean 20 years without a coach, and then three or four years with a coach guy called Tony Hodson. Brilliant. He is extremely experienced. He's great. He's. Bloody great guide. I mean, yeah. But he knows where to go and we have a meeting. Yeah. And he knows all the buttons to push. Okay. So what do you do outside of work, Paul? Well, apart from three kids and two dogs. Oh, and Yes. Dogs. I did mention dogs. I'm a big football fan. I love a sport watching New Castle and stuff like that. But recently, Vic, I got into, my wife especially, got into watching women's rugby. Oh yeah. And we went over to the World Cup last November in New Zealand to watch the semi-final and the final, it's inland with 43,000. Fans going mad about the women's game. Mm-hmm., which is incredible. Absolutely incredible. Wow. Wonderful experience. On top of that, I keep bees, I've got bees in the garden as well, so. Wow. Is there something that you'll commercialize in the future for the honey, or is it just more of a hobby? Right. It's a very, very expensive hobby. I was gonna say, I think, you know, we set everything up about a year ago, and I think Hazel worked, has worked out. It's about 300. Pounds a jar at the moment because of Really? Yeah, cuz it's cost us a fortune in hives and all the rest of it, and bees and stuff like that. So it's very rewarding and it's, I think it's just a nice thing to do, to be fair. Yeah. Yeah. It's giving back, I suppose, to the environment, isn't it? Course, course. It's, it's, um, so can you share some tips with our listeners about how you've dealt with setbacks and how you've, you know, not given up and resilience? Can you share some thoughts around that?. Yeah. I think what you've gotta do is you've gotta choose to be optimistic. I've listened to your podcasts, which are wonderful, by the way, Vicky, thank you very much. Um, they're Vicky and, and everybody sort of seems to say the same thing about the cup half full and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's so true. Everybody's saying it. It's gotta be true, isn't it? Yeah. And I think if you are an optimistic type of person, you've gotta see the good in things, even when you're let down and people do let you down and things let you down in situations. Can upset you and all sorts of stuff, but you know, there are so many good people doing the right thing who deserve your full attention and deserve your praise and your encouragement and all that sort of stuff. You cannot limit yourself. You've gotta be out there, you've gotta be doing it, and you've gotta look at things in a positive way and you've gotta get rid of the naysayers in life as well. Yeah, and it's a difficult thing to do. Could be family, it could be friends. Yeah. The people who are saying, oh, I wouldn't do this and I wouldn't do that. And I know somebody who did this before and it worked out terribly. You know, you can't have it in your life. Yeah. You're really kind of, it's just too much. Do you find that sometimes you're selective about what you tell people? Not so much in your business, but like, just generally if there's something new you want to do, like create that app or you know, you might not necessarily tell certain people because you might not want the response. Or you know, I know I've found that I, along over the years it's been, yeah, there's been some times where I've just kept things to myself and not said anything. And as you know, I've been writing a book and my, it's amazing. I've got a proofread and she read it. And the feedback I got last night, she said I had a meet with her and she said, Vicky, this is absolutely brilliant. I love it. And for me, I wanted her to have an objective critical viewpoint, but that feedback was wonderful, I thought, right. I'm on the right track, you know, and I've got my launch coming up in New Castle Week commence in the 24th of April, so that'll be exciting. I obviously, you and Hazel and Johnny are invited, so Whoa. One, that's fantastic. Isn't that amazing One, I love what you said about, If it's going to be, it's up to me. Yeah, I love that phrase. I thought, thought I was really, I only heard that last week. I was listening to a podcast and I think it was Joey Barton, the Footballer. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was doing a podcast and he said that, yeah. And I thought, you know what it is that's, I'll bring it up. Cause I knew I was coming here this week and I thought I'll mention that one. Cause it, it's a Butte and I love, it's so true. I love it. Absolutely. It might even feature in the show notes, Paul . So any more tips for staying positive or optimistic and anything else that you think would be great tips for people growing their business and having that growth mindset? You've covered a lot of ground already, but is there any final tips on that? I'd say don't be a stranger. You've gotta get out there. You've gotta ask questions, you've gotta see people ask. You've gotta join groups. I mean, join things like the Entrepreneurs Forum in the northeast of England. Good one. Yeah, it's fantastic. Um, in Yorkshire they've got, it's called the Yorkshire Mafia. What do you believe? Is it really when you were sharing the, it thought it's the Yorkshire at first, but, oh, that's good. It's real. It's interesting. And there's groups like that all over the place. Yes. The other thing as well is don't be afraid to pick up the phone to someone that you know and just say, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Can I tell you? You'll be amazed at the number of people who'd say, I'd love. You'd be amazed. It's incredible the number of people who are in business who want to help with either get into business or do well. I think it's fantastic when I see other people doing so well. But yeah, get onto LinkedIn, make connections. Do what you need to do. Yeah, and the other thing as well is you don't have to start from scratch. You can buy a going concern. Yeah. Yeah. If you're gonna go out and do something, you don't have to do what we did and start it from now, you know, you can go out there and you can buy a, a shop or you can buy a business and things like that. And there's loads of help out there to help people do that. Mm-hmm.. And then you've got income from day one, you've got profit. From day one, you've got a brand. Yeah. That's fantastic advice, Paul. So what does success look like for you in the future? Oh, I think it's having a business that runs without me and Hazel having to be there all the time. I think that's really important. And you know, when we went, I just mentioned we went to New Zealand to the World Cup, which meant for the business finale a month. Really? And they run it perfectly. Yeah. And that was fantastic when you got a business running like that and you don't need to get. Involved as much. That's fantastic. Do you have an exit strategy for yourself in Hazel? Not really. I think we need to be there as long as we need to be there. Yeah. And we love it course, and we love it. There's no reason for us to go. Of course. And when it's doing so well, there's so much going on. I want to be around it anyway. Yes. So no, I don't really have an exit. If we do have an exit strategy, it'll be bringing Johnny in more. Mm-hmm. and us backing out a little bit. Mm-hmm. getting involved a little less. Mm-hmm.. Yes. I think that's where we need to be. Couple more questions. Who inspires you? Lots of people inspire me. You know, you inspire me. You've written the BLM in book and everything. Thank you. Oh, thank you. That's credible. That's, sorry, Kate, you just, oh, you're not just saying that. No, I'm not just saying that . You're not. You're not. I'm not just saying that. I mean, Hazel inspires me. I mean, she believed in me when we needed to. Johnny inspires me because he'd come through from a state school where he was struggling and they were saying, Ooh, I dunno what he's gonna do with himself. And he's now helping us run a business. It's fantastic. Unbelievable. You know, Tony Hudson a coach. Yeah. He's inspiring. You know? I hope he doesn't listen to this. That'll be terrible. Oh, he's , I'm sure. I'm sure he will though, when he's gonna do all and he's inspiring cuz he, he just knows what to say and when to say it. Yeah. And the funny thing is, you know, if you're having a bad day and the phone rings, it's usually him and he just, yeah. I don't know what it is, it's just, it's something going on. But he always said to me about the three C's, you know, about the clarity and the chemistry and the commitment and stuff. Mm-hmm. and getting involved and things like that. And yeah, it's inspiring to have people around you who believe in you and help you as well. That's fantastic. And, and of course, read books. Yeah, read books, you know, you can't help books. Sort of read the Branson books and the mm-hmm. and everything else and read and get involved and listen to podcasts. Yeah. Because they're inspiring too. Yeah. And you can have a bad day, stick a podcast on in the cars. You're sort of having a bit of a drive and listen to somebody. Yeah, of course. You can't help but feel uplifted when Yeah, of course. Course. When you've listen to something which is positive.. No, that's great. And I always feel really inspired when you energized actually from our chats, and I wish you all the success with what you do. And any final tips for our listeners? Anything maybe to help them if they're in a situation where they really wanna get unstuck fast and they want to move forward and do something different, or any other tips that you have? What I'd say is you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You just need to make the wheel a little bit different or a little bit better. There are other contract cleaning companies out there. Yeah. We're not the first people who've ever developed a cleaning company. Yeah, yeah. What we did though is we said, look, how can we make it better for the clients? How can we make the experience better? How can we make the buying experience better? How can we make all of it better? And you just. Have a U S P and go for it. Yeah. And I think that's the key. If you've got something that you're interested in that really makes you tick, that really ticks your boxes, you don't need to reinvest it. You just need to make it a little bit better. Yeah. And I think that's really good. And there are so many people out there who will help you and start to advise and you know, I'm not just talking about legals and accountants and stuff Sure. But they're invaluable. But other entrepreneurs, yeah, other business people who you can go to and talk to, and before you even make a start, go and ask somebody about it. Yeah. Go and talk to somebody about it, and that'll give you either a little bit of comfort or not. Yeah. But you know, if it's in you and you've got something and you've gotta drive an ambition and you want to sort of give it a go, why wouldn't you? Yeah. Thank you so much, Paul, for joining us today in the studio. It's been a real pleasure to have you on the show, and you've inspired me and I'm sure you're gonna inspire a lots of listeners. I wish you all the success with everything you are doing and your team and also your family as well. So thank you. Thank you, Vicky.