S4, E4: Manifesting a Career as a DJ, TV & Radio Presenter then Building a Successful Business in Australia with Jen McGinlay (Brand Specialist and Copywriter)

Jen started her career as an Accountant but had a burning desire to be a radio presenter/ DJ.  Jen was relentless in her pursuit to make it happen.  Drum roll....

The big break came in bonnie Scotland working in commercial radio and hosting events for up to 10,000 people.

Jen shares the story of how she manifested her dream job and then later moved to Perth WA in 2014 to start a new life with her young family.

Jen now runs her own branding and copywriting agency based in Perth, WA and shares many tips about how she backed herself to build a successful business.

Get ready to be inspired…..5-4-3-2-1. 

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Connect with Jen McGinlay:

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Email: jenmcginlaywriter@gmail.com

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Click here to purchase a copy of The Momentum Mindset Book by Vicki Main and Jonathan S.Bean.

Transcript

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Branding is massively about consistency, but it's also about you as the business owner, making sure that you're communicating your values in the world and what you want to put out there. So, It's part of my job, I think, to help businesses see how amazing they are and how different they are to the next service provider that does the same thing in their business. Welcome to the Get Unstuck Fast Viscosity podcast brought to you by VLM training and coaching specialists across the UK and Australia. Hosted by me, Vicky Maine. Are you a business owner, leader, or executive? Have you ever felt stuck or disappointed where your life or business is heading? Do you ever feel overwhelmed, compare yourself to others, or feel like you're swimming in treacle at times? This podcast is here to help you get unstuck fast from viscosity to achieving escape velocity and expanding your knowledge. Our guests on the show will share practical tips and real life effects. Welcome to season four, episode four of the Get Unstuck Fast Viscosity Podcast. I'm your host, Vicki Mane. And today we have a special guest joining us, Jen McGinley. Welcome Jen. Hi Vicki. Great to be here. Oh, it's great to see you online and chat with you. I'm excited to have you on the show. Jen, can you tell our listeners more about your career journey and what you're doing now? Yes, I was actually an accountant in a former life. I'm a recovery accountant, a chartered management accountant. And one of the first jobs I had was with a newspaper, a national newspaper in Scotland. And I ended up spending more time on the editorial floor with the writers and the columnists than I did on the commercial floor. So, at the tender age of 25, I think I decided that accountancy wasn't for me. I didn't want to go that path and be in an office nine to five. It just didn't appeal to me. So, I decided to, at that stage, we're talking 20 years ago, do a bit of soul searching to find out how did I want to spend the rest of my life? What did I want to do? Because to me, I mean, even back then, I look back and I think, well, even to me then, I saw that time was the most valuable thing we have. It mattered to me more than money, and I was walking away from a job on a decent salary, but it still wasn't a reason enough for me to stay. So, I read a few books back then, and one of them sticks out that I remember to this day, and it is one of the first kind of self help books that everybody will have heard of. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Yes, by Susan Jeffers. And that was, I mean, 20 years ago, we weren't really talking in the terms we do now about embracing, you know, how we really feel and doing what we love. But it was a revelation back then. And it kind of affirmed to me that it was right to do what I wanted to do. So I went back and searched through childhood. What did I love doing? What lights me up? And it was music, music and people. So, at that point I decided I wanted to be on radio, on video, and so I I started to make my own mixtapes, being the DJ and playing music and sending away tapes to Radio 1. And I think, yeah, and I think back, my goodness, they were getting these, it was actually cassettes I was sending to Radio 1, I'm so embarrassed to say, you know, to be the next Fern Cotton and Zoe Ball and Radio 1. And then I started doing hospital radio, you know, that's, Played a lot of DJs, started out, got some chefs and hospital radio, playing music, loved it. Started sending, you know, my tapes to the regional stations and then got a break. I got a phone call one Friday morning, eight o'clock in the morning from the local Bower music station, you know, the biggest commercial in the UK to say, Jen, what are you doing today? At this point I had become a mum. I was months old and I was like, well, nothing. You know, can you present the daytime slot on radio? So by this time I'd done some regional shows in very small stations. So I was, you know, I knew I needed a gig. So it was a massive yes for me. They started my journey and to commercial radio, which was a dream come true. I spent hours and hours at home imagining that day and wishing for that day. And, you know, just to be able to talk for a living and play music and soak up the energy of the day, you know, And share it with people and make people see that bit better was, and it, you know, it still is a dream come true, you know, to do that. So I spent seven years with Bower in the West of Scotland. I did every show on the station. I said yes to everything. I hosted events, live events of up to 10, 000 people. And looking back now, I think, wow, you know, and you know, I wasn't the main attraction. It was the people you were introducing on stage. You know, like the music acts, the JLS, the One Direction, the Olimars, all these people. And it was awesome. It was the best. Learned so much about myself, learned so much about people. All these people that I got to interview, these famous people, are just amazing. They're people at the end of the day. They're, you know, they, they can have a horrible morning or, you know, not feel well. And they, you know, part of my job I felt was to get at what drove them and to get them down to our, not our level, but just to reflect how human they are. Just because they have a job singing in front of millions of people doesn't mean they're any less likely to feel sad or, you know, have a bad day. So I love that human connection and getting to talk to these people and wake up the rest of Scotland. I used to do the breakfast show. Which I look back on and think, oh my goodness, how could I be so awake at six in the morning? Wow. No, so it was, I wanted it to happen and I made it happen, you know, being on the radio. And obviously now I live in Perth, Western Australia, and leaving that behind was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, walking away from radio. But I'd got to a point where I didn't want to take it any further, I think. You know, you get to a stage where you realize, I need the next stage, I want the next stage of, of life, you know, I wanted to do something else. And I think, you know, once the passion kind of goes a little bit, you need to follow that and think, right, what's next? What's going to light me up? You know, and we moved to Western Australia and obviously my network was all in Scotland. And yeah, so, I asked a few people before I left for some contacts in the media to try and replicate that sort of career here. Obviously my accent's very different to everybody else here, so I guess commercial radio wasn't quite the right place for me here. And, you know, part of what I love to do is go out and meet people, so I made that, you know, part of settling in here as a family of three, meeting people, and I met an amazing Scottish lady who runs a networking group. And she needed some help with a media release for her business. And I said, well, yeah, of course I'll write it for you, but doesn't everyone know how to do that? And she said, no. And I said, well, I didn't realize that. And of course I'd, I'd love to help you do that. And from then I joined the networking group and became a copywriter, helping, you know, businesses put words to their values and their products, their services, and it's just grown from there. I didn't even know what copywriter was when I arrived in Perth, Australia 10 years ago. and. It's been very organic, the growth of the business to allow it to happen while life happens here, because my husband works from time, we have a family and making those connections to the school group was very important to me. You know, to have community when you don't have family around you is very important. So it's been a very organic process. We welcomed another child into the family, which was a wee surprise. So things changed again, which. Has just been great to grow the business around the family and to do what I really love and that's to help people live their passion and live their dream through help me up and then market their business because people don't go into business to write for their business or to write emails or to write a website they go into business because they're an amazing coach or they're an amazing personal trainer or so it's my job to help them bring you their business and product to the market. I love that I get to do that and be on their journey. It really excites me, the whole entrepreneurial thing. So I'm loving where I'm at and how I've evolved, but I was never meant to do the one job my whole life. And I love the fact that you've embraced your creativity and it sounds like you were so relentless when you were sending your mixtapes into Radio One and you wanted that dream. You wanted to make it happen and you made it happen. And what an incredible story. And that I know. Being a former DJ myself, the pressure behind the scenes to step open, you know, all the prep that you've got to do and you, you know, I'm sure you make it look seamless on stage when you get up there, but there's a lot of work and research and prep that goes on behind the scenes as well. I love the fact that you've kind of fallen into entrepreneurship when you moved to Perth and I know you're really big on. Helping people with their brand as well and their messaging. And I noticed on your LinkedIn that you're now harnessing the strengths of AI, which you've said there and shedding lots of creativity and insight. So tell me a bit more about the branding component of your business and how you help business owners and how you brought AI into your business as well. Yeah, I mean, branding is so much about the experience of what a business gives to the world. You know, it's so much more than just the logo, just the color, just the font. It's about the experience you want people to have when they come into contact with your brand. And part of that is the words and the language that you use. You know, our language is so complicated. There's so much that we can do with it to communicate. To help our audience understand what it is we mean using words, but using the whole package, using the colors and the videos and things like that. So it's part of my job, I think, to help businesses see how amazing they are and how different they are to the next service provider that does the same thing in their business. So if you have a plumber, you know, plumber A, plumber B, they're completely different and it's my job to help them see how they're completely different and to capitalize on that and talk about that and share that. And branding is a lot about consistency and you have to keep putting your message out there in the world repeatedly because, you know, the research shows it takes up to seven or eight touch points a day. With a potential client for them to even react or register the business. And that's before you talk about likes and engaging on social media, and then you've got the, you know, the phone call or the email, so branding is massively about consistency, but it's also about you as the business owner, making sure that you're communicating your values in the world and what you want to put out there, you might be a plumber that really wants to. Look after the planet, use ecologically sound products. And that's probably more a cleaner than a plumber. I'm not good at either of those things, you know, or they might be really focused on helping older people or vulnerable people in the community. So their brand needs to be, have that gentle field to it, that approachable field, that nonjudgmental field and language can do all that, but people in business don't understand their strengths. So I see myself as the matter. To shine back at them as they do so well and so differently to the next business and to help them really own that and stand proud in that because our brands are an extension of us. I know that we have global brands, but they are a collection of people and experiences too. And they're designed to appeal to a collection of people too. You know, it's all about. the human aspects, but making your brand as human as we can. And in terms of AI as a copywriter, you know, people ask me all the time how I feel about it, and has it taken my job? And so far, no, I actually find myself busier now because people use AI and find that it doesn't represent them as in the way that a copywriter can, because I understand them, I know what to ask. Yes, copy AI can be, you can create very nuanced pieces, but it's not always correct. The grammar's suspect, it hallucinates, it creates facts, it makes things up, and I believe that AI will have a, of course it has a place, but it's up to us to use it for good, and to use it like To try and humanize it. And can we humanize it? I don't think we ever can, but it's certainly helping us to work more quickly in business, helping us to structure our content, to come up with content plans. But when it comes to. Replicating the human experience, it won't ever do that, because to be a human is to take all our inputs that we've ever had in our life, along with our genetics, and all our experiences, and then, you know, we then write from that viewpoint of our unique experience, and AI can never do that. And to connect with another human, you need to feel like a human. So, I love AI and it's got a massive part in my future and all of our futures. But I think we have to be very careful about how we use it and learn how to use it properly. And that's where I come in. I can help business owners. To harness it and to use it properly. Yes. Take the goods, but also realize that you ultimately are the subject matter expert, not the AI. Um, and it helps you to be consistent as a brand, but yeah, I love where we are with AI and I'm very excited by it. But it's definitely up to us as the humans to teach it well and let it lead the way. I really like what you said about how you shine the mirror on business owners and help them to see their uniqueness and what they do, which differentiates them from another business owner. I think when you having been in business and being in business myself now, it's sometimes hard to see when you're working in the space all of the time. To see the differentiators, if you like, and I know you help me with some of my flyers that I've put out there in the past, and you're an exceptional writer, and I really like what you said there about, you know, shining that mirror on business owners and helping them really stand out as well. And I think the fact that you embrace AI really must make you stand out in your field, as opposed to other copywriters out there who are still not. With the program in terms of getting up to speed with what's happening in space and remaining relevant. Yeah. And I feel like it's, you know, as a copywriter, I have a community of copywriters that I work with and, you know, we talk about best practice and how to use it, and I think there's that whole transparency aspect to AI as well. And being very clear with clients, yes, we use chat GPT. I mean, there's a vast amount of tools that are out there now, you know, you've got perplexity, you've got Google's version of AI as well, and about being transparent about how we use it in the business, but there are some copywriters Are in complete refusal and denial to use it and some have walked away from jobs and businesses because They're expected to use AI, but they don't want to use it. And, you know, they're standing up for what they believe and that's how they see the future. But I've always been an early adopter of things. And I think the earlier you can get in with these things and understand it and turn it to our advantage, you know, use it, make it work for us. And yeah, I need to own that probably better as like we talk about shining a mirror. I need someone to shine a mirror on me sometimes for my business to understand it's just what I do. You know, how is that good or better or different? But yeah, it's an important exercise to go through and think, yeah, I'm a race and AI. I want to help. It makes me more efficient and it makes me I believe more creative the AI because I look at what AI gives me and I think, well, no, I take it to the next level and I'm able to delve deeper into my clients and to their clients markets and to really examine what it is that we need to put out there for them to be, you know, to make a difference in the world. So I do believe that's a big part of being a successful copywriter with AI is the ability to make it part of the process and to use it to our advantage for sure. Yeah, maybe you should share this in terms of do some workshops around it for people and scale it on mass, maybe. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. It's about knowing where everybody is with AI. Are people really, you know, gauging my market and, you know, are people not interested? Do they just want someone else to do it for them? So far, I've come across a lot of my clients. have used it and what they turn out, they can't, you know, they don't like, it's not good enough for them to use it. They think that and they're not writers, you know, what does everybody else think? So, yeah, I think it's how it all sits in the industry. Where does it sit? Where do the workshops sit? And how can I make sure that everybody's creating something unique for their own business? You know, we're not all the same. We all come out with a different content. What do you think is the best part about being in business or the best thing? The best thing for me is that I get to design a life, design my life around my clients and my work. I just love being able to choose who I meet and who I work with and spend my time with. You know, I love people. I love the energy of people. I love talking to people. I love hearing their stories. And I get to do that every day and it's like, it's so fun. It sounds like you're going to go back. I honestly, I've been self employed now for 16 years, 17 years. Heads up, I'm no longer an accountant because I can't count, but yeah, it actually. You know, it's not something you're taught when you're growing up. When we were growing up, you weren't taught this is an option for you. You know, here you can work for yourself. Then it was only Richard Branson, wasn't it? And Alan Sugar that was the entrepreneurs. But now I see young people at university and the young girls and boys that I meet in business. I'm so happy for them that they've got all this visibility and these options open to them that they can harness their amazing skills, talent, organization, and make their own way in the world. You know, yeah, solidify your skills, learn what you're doing, have some life experience, but ultimately make it work for you. Live that life that you want to live. If you don't want to live in one place, don't. You know, but make it work for you. I'm so excited by that, you know, and I want my son who's 17 to do that as well, but then I have to understand that's maybe not what he wants, you know, we always project, don't we? Yeah, I think there's a lot more resources and information out there for young people now to embrace entrepreneurship as a career choice. And that's something that you're absolutely right. When I was younger, we're similar age. And I know when, when I was younger, there wasn't that growing up, but I know I was doing my mixtapes and sending not so much sending the radio one, but I did have a perfume range at one point and sold it like kids in the street and neighbors. Wow. All sorts of, all sorts of random things. And I was actually, I used to get the neighbor's kids, all the kids in the street and stuff to come in and I'd do little shows where I'd put my music on and then I'd teach them something, you know, it was like, I was running workshops in the eighties about random stuff. So, but you know, I was only like eight or nine and ever, you know, always the performer. That's definitely something that I've done for sure. But yeah. Tell me about what's the toughest thing you would say about being in business and for those maybe who haven't been in business before and they're maybe looking into going into setting up their own business. What's the toughest thing? I mean, I think what I find the toughest thing now and you know, and that's me being in business for, you know, quite some time is the management of time. And the fact that you have to block your time, you know, there's always tasks in a business you could spend hours and hours on because you enjoy it so much, but the reality is you can't do that because it's a business you have to make money and in a business you have so many different hats to wear every day. So if I spend all day marketing, for example, or all day networking, you know, there's no money coming into the business that day. So you have to be organized and that's not where I naturally lie in my skill set. So, you know, time blocking I've found to be a challenge, but it works. Understanding how long things take is a challenge, but it works. It's very important. I'm the type of person that once I start doing something, I don't want there to be an end to it. That writing of that homepage for that website, because I'm enjoying it so much. And I think that's the thing with words as well, like, there's no right answer when it comes to a paragraph of words, does there? But when you do maths and science, there's a right answer, but when you write words, there's no right answer. So you could adjust it and change it forever, you know, to get the right outcome. So I find that's pretty challenging, the time management. And I also think that. You can get so absorbed into marketing your business because there's so much we can all do right for free. There's so much marketing we can all be doing all day long and it's enjoyable. I love, I mean, I really enjoy Instagram. I really enjoy LinkedIn and you know, you can lose hours on those platforms and call it marketing when it's not. So. I think that you have to be very clear about what you're trying to achieve and have some time limits around that, you know, and to also accept that whatever you do is enough and not try to do everything in marketing. We all get very bogged down and, oh, I have to do a reel, it has to be 30 seconds, it has to have the top song, top ranking audio, it has to, you know, has to have the right merging of the pictures. And goodness me, We could all do reels all day long, every day, but Instagram is not the only platform, LinkedIn is not the only platform. In fact, digital is only one way of marketing. So I think it's very important to understand that there's a lot more goes on outside the online world when you're in your own business. And I was, you know, in terms of how I get my business, it will be word of mouth and referrals. It will be people I've met far more than digital marketing brings them, which just suits me fine. Do you know, I absolutely agree with that. Most of my work that I've had in previous companies on this one now is very much around word of mouth and referrals and repeat business. I think that's something that, you know, that is repeat businesses. One thing that is certainly because you've already done the marketing, you're nurturing the client, but it's also Taking them on the journey with you. And I think that's really important. And I can totally resonate with what you're saying about being in front of people and the connecting side. Like I would literally, I know when I was back in Perth recently organized a networking brunch, it started off small, but then it started to snowball. And I love that being with people and networking and catching up with people. But again, it does take you away from the revenue generating activities, but you could argue that is revenue generating as well in longer term. So it's nurturing those. Relationships and your network is your net worth. Absolutely. So it's nurturing that because you never know where your next client's going to be or the referrals and going from there as well. It's building your reputation as well, isn't it? And that's right. You know, so many like amazing and diverse, exciting people that, you know, brought together and you've gone out your way to meet those people. Like, so when you're in Perth, they all want to meet up with you and they all want to see you. And that's continuing that relationship. And who knows who they speak to about your business. And it just goes on. But it's so, I feel that our values. It's an energy driven culture that I love to live in and be in, then that's the most valuable way to do your marketing is to talk to people who you like, and then they will talk about you to people that they like, you know, and then there's that easiness, there's that level of understanding that you have from that networking. Because you know such amazing people, Vicky. And likewise, Jen. Absolutely. Absolutely. Jen, I want to talk about leadership in teams, and I know you've been self employed for a long time now. But when you talk to other people who've been working for someone else, and also when you've been in previous roles, I'm curious, what do you think is the biggest thing that the common mistakes that leaders make in the workplace with their teams? Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And I really feel. That, you know, leaders have a really hard job, managers and leaders and businesses, I feel that it's, you could actually spend your whole day in that role rather than doing, you know, your subject matter expert, whatever you're in the role to do, because people are so complex and lives are so complex and communication is so complex that I feel people. in certain roles as managers and leaders become dehumanized and they don't understand that there's a person there. I don't mean that to sound really harsh in the sense that they deliberately do it but I think they have to do it in order to do their job to become less understanding of what that person's going through that day or the family situation or their learning style. You know, we're becoming more aware of this now, and the whole world's becoming more aware of how diverse we all are. We're diverse even in the fact that we're different human beings, never mind other, you know, ways that we can be different. So I think when you try to manage people the same way, You know, you have a team of 10 people, and there's a task that needs done, and you expect everyone to approach it the same way. I think that's a mistake that I've seen made, but I've been part of. I learn the way I learn, and someone else might learn very differently to me. They might be very silent and quiet, need to go away to a different room to think about the problem for days. You know, whereas I need to do something, I need to learn something and do it and experience it. And I'm very talkative and communicative about it, whereas someone else, and you know, and you can make value judgments about people because they don't talk. And I think that I see that as being a problem when I worked in corporate, that we were just all expected to do everything the same way. And you know, I didn't really do that because I spoke, I didn't really, you know, but then some people are shy and they don't want to talk about it. how they need different surroundings to do things. So I really feel for managers nowadays that they have all this, um, diversity to look at. But also I love the way that the workplace is moving towards, you know, recognizing that people need that space and time in a different way to their team mate. You know, not everyone has to do nine to five in an office anymore, which I think is really good. And we're becoming a lot more understanding of family commitments, lifestyle commitments in a positive way, a really positive way. When I work with people in my business, I tend to bring contractors on and work with them to help me do things. And it's a big challenge for me to, you know, to think about how does that person need to hear that information? When they send me that email, how are they feeling? You know, were they feeling, did they mean that, how, you know, were they, did they mean to be as blunt or not? And it's about understanding that we have a job to do and it's not about. Me, and it's not about name, you know, it's not about the person, and you're not taking things personally at the end of the day, which is hard. It's a really good segue because I've been doing a lot of research in conflict in the workplace and about leadership styles as well. And I'm curious, you talk about the complexity of leaders and managers and people. And I'm curious, how would you handle conflict situations? You don't need to give us an example of how you've done it, but you know, I'm sure if someone came running in with a baseball bat, you'd probably handle it differently to where someone sends you an email with capital letters, you know, but how do you handle conflict situations? Um, and I think it comes back to all humanity to the action is if someone says or does something to you, like if you have an email or in a conversation, I would always pause. I always pause. pause. I don't want to. I want to react very immediately, but I always pause. And sometimes that means I don't react for a whole day. Sometimes it can mean, you know, a few hours, but I go away and I think about what that person meant by that interaction. And I try to always see the interaction in the best light possible. If, you know, if it was something personal directed at me, okay, that's different. But I guess it's all about understanding someone's viewpoint of where they're coming from, and what they value, and what they are trying to achieve. In the sense of the conflict. Does it involve their children? Does the conflict involve their children? Well then it changes that, you know. And in a workplace situation, you know, why is that person reacting like that? Is it because they feel threatened? I really try to understand where the other person is coming from and their agenda because, you know, there's always a subtext about how people react. And additionally, we all react differently to different things, don't we? But that is something that I've learned in the last, sort of, I would say five years, is that always to pause and reflect. before reacting. I mean, don't get me wrong, if I have to send an email that's potentially inflammatory, then, you know, I'll write 10 drafts of that email before it gets sent and I will overthink it and overthink it. But I want it to be neutral. I want people to See that I'm coming from a reconciliation frame of mind and not, you know, I don't agitate the situation. I think it's a different story when it comes to personal relationships. I don't tend to pause. Not many people do by, uh, according to my research. Yeah, but I think to me relationships are very important. As in relationships with other families, mums in the playgrounds, clients, contractors. Relationships are important to me and I feel that you shouldn't aim to have someone worrying about your interaction at the end of the day. I don't want people to worry about their relationship with me. I don't think anything can be that important, you know, to have to lose sleep over. I love the fact that you have that delayed response in terms of not necessarily going with a knee jerk reaction and responding to conflict in that way and taking other people's perspectives. They're really great ways and constructive ways of dealing with conflict for sure. And yeah, I think that's really interesting. And There's no surprise that you're a big networker and you get on well with people as well and people know that you're not the type of person to be so reactive as well, but that makes you who you are. I'm curious. What are you fearful of? Every single time I hit send on a piece of work, I'm scared because, yeah, I feel that writing is such a personal endeavour that, you know, people can say they hate it. And to me, that would be devastating that people would say they hate it. I remember the most scared I've ever been with a client was a photographer who photographed the ocean. You know, where I live, it's part of the ocean that I love, a very special place in my family's life. A place that I go for solace, and she photographed it, and she wanted me to write the descriptions of these photographs and these images. Well, you know, such creativity, but such a personal viewpoint, and I sweated over it, cried over it, and then when I hit send, I just, you know, I couldn't sleep to wait to see what she said. And I think it's just because it's so important to me that it represented the images well, and it was. You know, words can mean different things to everybody. So I was just so scared that I hadn't done it justice. But at the end of the day, she loved it, so it was good. But you know, I just don't want people to not recognize the love and the understanding that I've put into everything. And I think that's your worry, you know, that People don't appreciate what you've done and you talk about yourself, work that you do, the research that you do, for the work that you do, and what you put out in the world. It's not just, you don't just turn up and do it. There's a lot that comes before, it's not seen. And yeah, I think I just fear people thinking that what I do is easy. It's just, oh, you A bit lazy, sit down and have a coffee and do your work. You know, it's not easy, but you make it look easy because you're so good at what you do. That's the thing. And from what you've said that you're so humble about your writing, but yet it's your uniqueness and your gift. You have a huge gift. And it's almost like what it's reminding me of when I wrote my book, the momentum mindset with Jonathan being, I know you were at the launch party in Perth. I had moments where self doubt crept in and I thought. Well, who am I to sort of sit here and write about mindset? And I thought, well, who am I not to shine and show other people, you know, what can be done. And for me, it was about, it was important that I committed to writing the book, but also followed that through. And I wasn't going to be a gonna do it. I was actually going to get it done and publish the book and do it well and get it out there. But let me tell you, as I was writing it, I got to about 20, 000 words and then Jonathan came in and we ended up co authoring. And I think because he is a qualified writer and he's amazing with words, I guess I kind of felt a bit more ease that I was working in a collaboration to really produce this piece of work that. I could be proud of. And it's a legacy piece that's there, but it's also helped many people. You know, I had one, one person messaged me and say, it's one of the best, if not the best self help book they've ever read. And I was like, really? I was like, but it's come from 20 years of practical experience and Jonathan's take on it's different to me, but he is an exceptional motivational person. Who's his mindset. I mean, he's run over 30 marathons. So, but I think the key for me was that collaboration. And really doing something out of, I wanted to help other people. It wasn't a vanity piece where it was, you know, self fulfilling vanity piece where I wanted to write a book and put it out there. It was never about that. It was about helping people. And then now, as I go in my journey of my second book that I'm writing, and I've set myself some challenges about that, you know, it's scary. But also, I have to keep reminding myself that something, a great idea, everything starts with an idea and then you have to take it forward and really push yourself out of your limits and feel the fear and do it anyway, as Susan said. Susan Jenner. Exactly. I know, and like your book, the way it's written. That is going to speak to some people far more than feel the fear and do it anyway. It's the way you've written it that is going to talk to people. It's your slant on it. It's your experiences and your words and your language. And so you absolutely had to make that book because of all your experience and your You know your entrepreneurship where you've lived your different family experiences And you've lived it and this is how you've got through it and you can change someone's life just by Right now, what you've done, how amazing is that? You know? So, thank you. I'm curious about, when's your book coming? Oh, I'm like the plumber with the leaky tap. I write everybody else's, I don't write my own. Oh lovely, it takes time though, it took me two and a half years to finish that, you know, and really get going with it. Yeah. You ever get writer's block? For myself? No, never. Not for myself. For other, for clients I do, because I have to remember that I'm writing as a client, so you have to go into the client's mindset and, you know, their position and be who they are. But when it comes to me, I could just write forever and ever and not stop about, you know. You know, but then of course you have to go back and edit it because the first draft is always rubbish. But no, I just never have experienced vitals more. Because I was talking, I never had trouble talking. So can you share some tips about dealing with setbacks and not giving up for our listeners? Oh, uh, look, I, I just feel whenever I've been faced with a difficulty or, a problem, I change up my environment immediately. That's the first thing I do, physically change the environment. I'll go outside or go for a walk or do something completely different. I mean, that's quite a macro movement, I think. But in terms of, you know, setbacks, I think I just don't take them personally and kind of look at the bigger picture. I mean, I don't, you know, I feel like I've had a very happy life. I haven't had horrible things happen to me. I've had. Moving here from Scotland was very hard. From a family point of view, it broke my heart to take my children away from their grandparents and their family. And for a long time, that was a, you know, a real sad thing in my life. It took away a lot of energy that I should have been giving to my family and to you know, my future, but that was a process I had to go through. It doesn't stop me getting out of bed every day. I think I'm luckily one of those people that I do see the positive, like I don't know whether that's genetic or whether that's something that I have watched through my parents or people I've surrounded myself with, but I always get out of bed in the morning every day. I have to get, you know, like some people say they can and I just have to. Get up and get out. Every day I go outside, and that helps me to get perspective. I think having perspective is a very important thing when you're faced with setbacks. And to not take it personally, and to not think the world is against you, because the world's not against you. You know, it's not. It can feel like it sometimes, and we can all have that moan with our friends, and say, oh, this happened, and that happened, and then my tyre blew, and then my landlord told me I had to move out. I think if I've got People around me who listen to me and understand me, I feel okay. I feel supported and validated and I know I can move on with what's next. And I think like you, Vicky, like when you're out there as a DJ and me being on the radio, you're out there, you're in the arena physically, you know, and don't criticize people unless you are in that arena out there. And I feel like the roles that we've had, we've been very publicly out there. Um, And that's brave. Someone pointed it out to me that they said I was brave and I think well I'm not brave, I just, but you're out there and you're going to fail in front of a lot of people and that's how writing is. You can fail in front of a lot of people because your writing's public, you know, but I don't know, I just believe that we have to keep doing it. What is life otherwise if you don't, you know, share your thoughts and your gifts and your music with the world, you know? Absolutely. Do you think you'll ever get back behind the decks? Absolutely. Well, I have actually just done a DJ course. So yes, I think I will, but you know, I see the decks as two different things. One is the DJ and one is the presenter, the radio announcer. I don't know if I'll go back to radio announcing. I think I would love to go back to interviewing people like you're doing today, like talking to them, getting their stories, doing that kind of thing. Also having a podcast. I would love to have a podcast one day and I hope you'll also be my guest. But in terms of the DJing, then yeah, I'm learning the basics. So I look forward to sharing some sets very soon. Well I reckon you just need to dust off this sort of, I'm sure you've got lots of skills up your sleeve there. So yeah, looking forward to hearing from you in the future and I'm sure you'll do some incredible things with that. And it's really about bracing your creativity, isn't it? You've done that your whole life and that I'm sure there's people sitting in jobs right now listening to this, thinking. You know, they're passionate about something outside of work and they're not fulfilling their passion and really looking at their creativity. And I think that the secret comes to looking at what you did as a child and what lit you up as a child and those things, like for me, there was three things I wanted to do as a kid. or four actually, but entrepreneur, DJ, teacher, I've done all those. And the final one was a vet, but I think that I was an ambitious child. I'm a bit more chilled now, but I was a very ambitious child. The vet piece, it's never really happened, but I think that's more my love for animals. I just love dogs and animals in general, you know, horses and various. But I think certainly for you, your creativity just oozes out of you, and it's amazing to see that. And I wanna watch, so what's the next thing for you? What does success look like for you in the future? Oh goodness. I see myself as really working with businesses in terms of their branding as well as the copywriting. Like to empower people to write their own copy. and have confidence that what they do is amazing, because at the end of the day, would you rather read a piece of content written by your social media manager or written by the business owner? You know, and I think I understand everyone's time poor, but I love reading it. You know, I love reading things written by founders and owners of businesses. So I think we should all learn to accept that we are not perfect writers, but what we have to say is so valuable that we shouldn't let Queerer grammar where a full stop goes, stop us, you know, from putting out what we love in the world. So I'd love to help businesses recognize how amazing they are and to do their own, you know, copywriting and their own brand. Um, voice recognition in the sense of two. Own it and to embrace it and to use it more proudly, I think. And I think just being able to help people by talking to them is like a dream come true. If I can share whatever I know about running a business, about copywriting, branding, that's a dream, just to help people bring their dream to life and live the life they want to. Because I believe everyone should spend their life and spend their time in a way that they want to spend it. And if I can help them do that, that's what I will be happy when I'm 95, I'm a copy. One final thing. Can you share any final tips for listeners who are feeling stuck at the moment and they want to get out of a negative situation and live life on their terms? Do something different. Do something completely different. Go take a dance class, go learn how to make a cocktail, just do something completely out of your comfort zone because you'll feel brave after you do it and you'll feel good about yourself and when we feel good about ourself, it changes the world. Yeah, I love what you said there and I'm actually off after this session this morning. I'm going to rejoin the gym again because my relationship with the gym has been off. Jane and Ellie said there don't even drink gin. My relationship with the gym has been on and off for years. So I'm going back there this morning and I woke up this morning. I thought, right, I I'm speaking to Jen this morning, interviewing Jen, and then I'm going to go to the gym. And I thought, Oh, but do I really need to go to the gym? I was like, yes, I've committed to myself. So I was having this inner, and you're absolutely right about changing the environment you're in and going out there and doing it and get back into it. Because once I'm at the gym, I love it, but it's just the getting there. You know, and the irony is the gym is a 30 minute walk from my house where I currently live and I could take the car, but then that's been a bit lazy there. So I figured I would walk to the gym and walk back. But yeah, it's the irony is I didn't want to walk to the gym. And then maybe steps. If you do, if you drive to the gym and go to the gym, you're still going to feel amazing that you did that. You know, you're going to have buzz and you did it under your own steam, you know, you made that happen. Exactly. Yeah. Anyway. Well, lovely to chat with you, Jen. Where can people find you on social media? Are you on LinkedIn? I'm on LinkedIn. Yeah. Jen McGinley. I'm also on Instagram. Jen McGinley, copywriter. And I spend a lot of time, most of my social media time is Instagram because I love it. But I'm also, I've got my website which is jenmcginley. com. au and people can drop me a line there if you would like to have a chat or share some pictures on Instagram and I'll follow them. Thank you so much Jen, you're very inspiring and I wish you all the success in the world for the future in whatever you do. Oh, thank you, Vicky. Thanks for having me on your podcast. And it's been such a pleasure to watch your journey as well. I look forward to book number two. Thank you. Okay, lovely. Thanks a lot. Bye.