Dr. Chris Tucker:
Welcome to the Arthroscopy Journal Podcast. I'm Dr. Chris Tucker from the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center and the podcast founding editor. Today we celebrate another notable milestone for the podcast, as this is our bicentennial episode. We have now been producing weekly episodes for over four years since our launch in January 2019, in which we feature discussions with talented surgeons and Allied Health professionals who've authored articles in the arthroscopy family of journals. I'm proud of our ability to deliver behind the scenes and beyond the article information directly to our listeners, and bring the very best of orthopedic sports medicine and arthroscopic surgery to you each week. Our listenership continues to grow, and we're currently averaging over 1600 downloads per week. In honor of this 200th episode, I will continue the tradition of using our milestone episodes to feature a discussion on a contemporary issue in orthopedics.
Today we'll be discussing women in the field of orthopedic surgery. I'm honored and humbled to welcome three amazing women to our show. Each of our guests today is a skilled surgeon, leader, educator, published researcher, role model, mentor, and activist. I'm proud to have worked alongside each of them over the years in various capacities, through courses at the OLC, speaking at conferences, work with the Journal and through AANA, and I'm sure I've learned far more from them than I've reciprocated. Most importantly, I'm proud to call them my colleagues and friends.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey is the Assistant Program Director, Assistant Dean for Faculty Affairs and Director of the Women's Sports Medicine Program at Tulane University School of Medicine. She's also a diversity advisor to the AANA Board of Directors, as well as the immediate past president of the Ruth Jackson Orthopedic Society. Mary, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Hey Chris, thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to have this discussion.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin is the chief of Women's Sports Medicine at Mass General Brigham, an associate professor at Harvard Medical School and an associate editor for the Arthroscopy Journal. Liz, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
Thanks, Chris. I'm happy to be here.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
And Dr. Andrea Spiker is the Director of the University of Wisconsin Hip Preservation Program, program director for the Sports Medicine Fellowship and one of my co-hosts on the Arthroscopy Journal podcast. Andrea, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm really looking forward to our conversation and to being on this side of the mic.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
So we have a lot to discuss and I’m excited to hear everyone's thoughts on so many things. So let's get right into it. In his presidential address entitled Beyond Our Mask, published in the October 2022 issue of the Arthroscopy Journal, AANA Immediate Past President Mark Getelman outlined the current status of discrepancies that exist in orthopedics with respect to women in our field, orthopedics remains the single subspecialty with the widest gender gap. The Association of American Medical Colleges reports that 94.2% of our colleagues are male leaving less than 6% women. Of this very small female minority, less than 18% of women are full-time orthopedic faculty, and less than 10% are full professors. I'd like to frame our discussion today by first defining where we as a profession have been and where we are currently beyond these statistics. Can each of you outline for us your personal experience as a female orthopedic surgeon and your perspective on the current state of women and orthopedics? Let's go around the room starting first with you, Mary.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Sure, thanks so much, Chris. And before we get any further, I just want to give a huge congratulations on the success of the podcast with this being the 200th episode. That's really very impressive and thanks so much for having us for this very special episode. So for me, I've had really a fantastic experience in orthopedics. I mean, I did my residency at Brown, which was a very supportive residency. We had about six or seven women in the program for all six years that I was there, and I always felt hugely supported throughout that and into my fellowship and into early practice. And so I feel very fortunate to have had many mentors, et cetera that have supported me, and those mentors also have kind of evolved over the years. But I think you've framed this discussion well with setting the stage in terms of the fact that only 6% of practicing orthopedic surgeons are women.
If we look to residents, we know about 16% of residents are women and 51% of medical students are women. So we see obviously that we have increasing numbers as we go down in training, but we're losing a lot of women from medical school. And I think that there are many things that are being done, and I'm sure a lot of that's going to come out throughout our discussion, but it's very encouraging how much focus is being placed on diversity that's both gender and racial diversity currently throughout a lot of our orthopedic societies, including the AAOS. And so that I think gives us a lot of hope as we move into the future. And we see a lot of very intentional efforts at our meetings in our journals with either Arthroscopy Journal being at the forefront of a lot of this publishing. A lot of gender diversity related issues, whether it's outcomes following sports medicine procedures, et cetera.
But there's a huge focus on this. And so I think it's setting the stage for a lot of improvement moving forward. And I have benefited a lot from support from mentors and from the Arthroscopy Association, et cetera. So I think that's all very encouraging. And in terms of the current state of women, I think it's just going to continue to get better with all of these efforts. We certainly have seen that if we just wait for changes to happen organically, that it's going to take a long time. And there was a great study published in CORR very recently saying that at the current rate, if we just wait to see how things are going to change, it's going to take over 200 years for there to be gender parity. And that has stimulated a lot of very intentional efforts throughout multiple societies and orthopedics, and I think we're going to continue to see those benefits.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Thank you for sharing that and experience and comments with us. Liz, can you follow up with some of your thoughts?
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
Sure. So my experiences were slightly different when I first trained, I was actually the first female resident in my residency program as well as the first female in my sports medicine fellowship program. So it was a little bit of a different time. I had very few female mentors to look up to, but luckily I had significant support from some amazing male mentors, and I have zero regrets with my training in orthopedics, but when I look at the current state of women orthopedics now, in my mind, it's better than it's ever been.
There's much work that still needs to be done, and as Mary just pointed out that we're moving slowly, but you know what, we're moving slowly in the right direction and a positive direction is a good place to go. I think that when I trained any type of parental leave was non-existent, and so currently it's much easier to be a female in orthopedics and to plan to progress with your career and your training as well as your family. And so I think we've made leaps and bounds and I can't wait to see where we're going to continue to move the needle.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Thanks, Liz. Andrea, can you share your perspective?
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Absolutely. Well, first I'd also like to echo Mary's comments on the Arthroscopy podcast. It's been such an honor to be a co-host, and I really admire all that you've been able to accomplish as the founding editor. And then I just want to thank you for the thoughtfulness that you put in to putting this episode together because this is a very important issue and certainly to the three of us. It's one that we live with daily, so thank you. So I would pretty much agree with everything that both Mary and Liz said. I'd say one of the biggest barriers is really the lack of visibility in of female leaders and mentors in our field. And I had an experience, perhaps somewhat between Liz and Mary's experience. When I decided to go into orthopedics, I was a medical student at Georgetown and there were no female attendings at that time.
And so as a student, I had no one to look up to and see doing what I envisioned I would be doing as a female in the future. But that being said, I did have Dr. John Delahay who really encouraged me to go into orthopedics and really helped me look at programs that he thought would be welcoming to a female orthopedic resident. And so that honesty, and I think the recognition that this was perhaps going to be a different experience in training as a female orthopedic resident compared to male orthopedic residents was truly helpful for me. But then I entered a residency program, Johns Hopkins, where I had really fantastic female mentors and role models. My program director, Dr. Dawn LaPorte, was the woman. At the time Dr. Christie Webber was one of my attendings, and then Dr. Carol Morris.
And so I think it was a real palpable difference having those female mentors who were successful driven orthopedic surgeons who were supportive and at arm's length and then willing to share their experiences with trainees. I mean, it made a huge difference. And so to Liz's point, I think the direction that we're heading is definitely a better place than it was previously. And then in fellowship at HSS, I had even more fantastic female mentors, including Dr. Hannafin, Dr. Sue Bernstein, Dr. Strickland, and so many others. And again, I think especially as a person who had children in residency, fellowship and as an attending, I think seeing the spectrum of career directions and family decisions and having mentors who had gone through having children in training and early in their careers is extremely helpful for me.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
So thank you for sharing those thoughts. It's interesting to hear your different yet somewhat themed perspectives on your own trainings, and I heard the commonality of the role that mentors played in your experiences. And using that as a segue, now that we've kind of discussed the current status and perhaps the problem as you might frame it. What do you think are the most profound found barriers to progress for women in both academic and or private practice currently in orthopedic surgery? Mary, do you want to start us off again?
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I think Andrea just commented on one of the most significant, which is really a lack of, we're just sort of very few same sex mentors in orthopedics. And certainly that tends to be much more important for women, but it can be a real issue if you don't see someone who looks like you think that, or you may think that it's not possible for you to do that or to be successful in that role. So that is really critical, having female faculty, but also women in leadership positions, positions that are very visible. I mean, with Liz being on the associate editor with Andrea being head of her hip preservation program, those are all huge and very visible roles. And the medical students, residents, fellows look to them, and so really has a significant impact. Other barriers include just exposure. Early exposure is very important.
And as we're very well aware, it's not just at Tulane or just at Harvard or just at University of Wisconsin. There's not a lot of built in early exposure to orthopedics. So if a student doesn't come in interested and start seeking it out, they may never get that exposure. So finding ways to give early exposure, even as early as high school and whatnot, or even middle school is critical when students are starting to think about what would I even consider for my career? So we're all very well aware, and I think we'll discuss a little bit more about the pipeline programs, the Perry Initiative and Dimensions and others that have been hugely successful, but those type of intentional efforts are making a big difference.
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
So just to build on what Mary said, I think she touched on the big ones to include mentorship and early exposure, but I also would just add that normalizing leave, so parental leave policies has probably made it, was a huge barrier for women. When I had my first daughter, there was no parental leave. And according to ACGME rules at the time, you couldn't take more than two weeks off from your residency or you had to repeat a year. So those kind of changes and policy changes have been huge. And I also just think zero tolerance policies have really opened the door for many more females to enter orthopedic surgery.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Absolutely. Thanks, Liz. Andrea, what do you have to add to those thoughts?
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Well, I think that Mary and Liz really hit the nail on the head, not to induce a orthopedic pun here, but in addition to that, I think some of the things that I encounter when I'm mentoring medical students or sometimes undergraduate students is those stereotypes associated with orthopedic surgery about, you need to be incredibly strong to do any type of orthopedic surgery. And I think we all know that that's not necessarily the case. And certainly with the average retirement age of an orthopedic surgeon spanning way into the six and seven decades, I'm certain that a 20-year-old, 20 something could muster the same type of strengths to do some of these procedures. So I think understanding what the stereotypes are, what the medical students and undergraduate perceive as barriers, and then making sure that they understand the reality.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Yeah, and Chris, I would add to what Andrea was just saying, that's a hugely important point, and there's this concept and kind of sense of belonging, which is exactly what she was just discussing. There was a great article that Kate Gerull at WashU and other colleagues there wrote relatively recently. That is a very good description of this concept and how important it is for us to make all students feel welcome in the field of orthopedic surgery. Because students start medical school with already a perception of what it means to be an orthopedic surgeon, like who are orthopedic surgeons. And if they feel like they don't fit into that group, then they may not even pursue getting more exposure to really try to learn what the field is all about. So a very, very important concept to keep in mind.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Sure, absolutely. Thanks Mary. So Mary, you mentioned this pipeline concept and the barrier of exposure, and that's a nice transition to my next question, which has to do with this idea of reaching back further in that pipeline of medical education as one potential avenue of addressing this lack of female representation to try and generate more interest earlier on. And like you mentioned, a few of these outreach programs such as the Perry Initiative trying to reach women as early as high school to provide exposure. While the solution of this problem is to be measured in the long game over the course of years and decades, as we know, this is kind of a generational problem, not a year to year problem. Some eras statistics recently released by the AAMC show that we might be experiencing at least a small success in starting to move the needle.
I recently read that female applicants to orthopedic surgery residency programs has slowly but steadily increased, both in total number and in percentages of applicants from 2017 numbers with 247 applicants. Which represented just under 17% to this past year, 2022, 400 applicants, which was 23% of applicants. While this doesn't speak to the numbers of those accepted as trainees, it at least shows that the interest appears to be improving. I'd like everyone's thoughts on the residency training process in general, what you're thinking of these numbers and maybe some other unique challenges we face when it comes to this aspect of residency and fellowship training.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
So I think these numbers are very encouraging. We're making progress, we're moving the needle, like Liz was saying, we're making a difference. All of these efforts are making a difference, and it's not huge and it's not changing overnight, but it's moving forward. And so that's what we're excited about. I think there are a lot of opportunities. The match was just last Friday. It was very exciting to see. I joke, I say I get all my updates on news via social media, which actually is pretty much true. But it was awesome to see all of the posts from all these different residency programs showing pictures and names of the students who had matched. And it was incredible to see the number of women that matched, to see programs with eight residents and six were women or four residents and two of the matching students were women.
Very, very encouraging. So I will be very excited to see the overall numbers from the 2023 match. So in terms of total number of women going into orthopedics and starting as residents, I think we're definitely making a big difference when we talk about maybe the experience of female residents versus our male counterparts. That is a slightly different topic. I think the experience is a little bit different, but that's getting better too. And I think a lot of efforts are being exerted to make that experience a little bit more equal. But I'm very, very encouraged. I think we all are, by the number of women applying and the number of women matching these women are just absolute all stars. And so it gives us a lot of hope and excitement for the future of the field.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Sure. Thanks Mary. Liz, do you have any additional thoughts on that?
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
Nothing really. I think 23% of female applicants is awesome. When I applied, I still received form letters from residency programs that said, "Dear Mr. Matzkin." So seeing this number somewhat skyrocket over the last just five years, I think is a tremendous move in the right direction. I think just being at an academic institution and having the opportunity to interact with medical students and residents and trainees, I feel like there's more and more females showing their interests in orthopedic surgery, and I love it.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Thanks Liz. Andrea, what are your thoughts?
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Well, I think as both Mary and Liz said, these are incredibly encouraging statistics and it gives me a little bit of pause, I think about, "Well, what is causing this shift?" And Liz alluded to it being in academic medicine. The four of us are in academic medicine, but the three of us female orthopedic surgeons are in academics. And I think that thinking back at reaching back, making a difference, thinking about who is up on the podium at these national conferences. So when orthopedic surgery residents go to these conferences and in the past saw no other women teaching to the crowd talking about research, I suspect that many of them may have thought, "Well, academics is not for women in orthopedic surgery and maybe I'll go into private practice."
Whereas now with more women up on the podiums, more women in leadership roles, that means perhaps more women in academic orthopedic surgery, and those are the female surgeons that medical students are seeing and interacting with for the most part. And so I think maybe this is, it's a trickle-down effect and something that we need to be cognizant of when we're looking at these stats and thinking, "Well, how can we continue to increase that number of medical student applicants applying to orthopedic surgery?" And maybe it does start at the top with those podiums, with those panels and putting those women orthopedic surgeons in front of our trainees, our early trainees, in order to keep the momentum moving.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Yeah, I think that's a fantastic point, Andrea. I think as you mentioned earlier about seeing somebody that you wanted to aspire to be like or emulate, I think you all, in addition to all of the other successful women out there are doing that actively now, where you may not have had that in your own experience just 10, 15 years ago. And that's a fantastic transition into my next thoughts, which we often hear about the concept of advocacy and being an ally. When we're discussing efforts by men and women to improve the conditions for women in orthopedics. We hear these terms such as reaching back, being an advocate or lifting one another up. I was hoping each of you could just share what being a good ally for women and orthopedics looks like from your perspective and what we can all do to better support our female colleagues. Let's switch the order of events and give Andrea a chance to speak first on this one.
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Yeah, thanks, Chris. I think this is an important question. What makes you a good advocate or ally? And I often think back to Dr. John Delahay, my attending in medical school and in a department full of fellow male orthopedic surgeons. I think it was pretty amazing that he could recognize some of the challenges that he envisioned I would encounter as a female orthopedic surgery resident. And he was honest about those with me. And so I think as he was guiding me into the residency application process, talking about what challenges might be encountered and which programs might better support a female applicant, for example, I think that was my first encounter of advocacy and orthopedic surgery.
So I think being aware of the issues, not turning a blind eye and then understanding how to navigate that. And as we were talking about some of the statistics earlier, men, males in orthopedic surgery are going to be some of those in positions of power. And so they really do have a better understanding of the lay of land and can therefore help female orthopedic surgeons navigate that land and support female orthopedics as they progress in their careers.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Okay, excellent thoughts. Thanks, Andrea. Liz, what are your thoughts?
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
Yeah, I agree, we need our male advocates and allies, but I always like to think about the Shine Theory. So it's basically when I can see Mary or Andrea or another female orthopedic surgeon shine or I can help them shine, then I shine too. And so making a conscious decision to really invest in someone else's future, career, whatever it may be, leadership to make them more successful, makes all of us successful. So the more success that my female colleagues have, then the more success it's going to bring my way. So I think the Shine Theory is a really good way for women especially to advocate for other women.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
That's very interesting, I have not heard that before. Liz, thanks for sharing that. Mary, what does being a good advocate or ally mean to you?
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Yeah, this is a fantastic question, Chris, and I think just by asking this question and including it in the podcast, that you are being very thoughtful and very insightful and trying to understand maybe some things that we experience. And you want to understand from your perspective too, what you as our male counterpart and a huge ally can do and what our other male counterparts can do and what we as women can do to support each other. What Liz just brought up is a huge point. You would think with only 6% of us in orthopedics being women, that we would all be hugely supportive of each other. That's not the case across the board unfortunately, but in general, it makes an enormous difference in exactly the point that she made, that we all bring each other up from our male surgeon counterpart. 94% of practicing orthopedic surgeons are men.
And so we really, really need everybody's help, all of our male counterparts to help to be allies, to advocate for women, to think of your female colleagues when you're in a room where we're not there. This is a prime example of inviting all of us to be on this podcast. If you're on a committee and thinking of new members, thinking of your female counterparts who could potentially serve in roles on the committee. Or have speaking roles at meetings or present at grand rounds. Those are all great ways to advocate and to continue to promote diversity in orthopedics and are hugely helpful with continuing to help us move everything forward.
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Chris, this is Andrea again. I just wanted to add one other thing using both Liz and Mary's comments as the springboard. 6% of practicing orthopedics are women and so going back to that, "If you see it, you can be it," theory. I think the three of us for sure, really practice putting ourselves out there whenever we can, whether it's volunteering for the Perry Initiative, presenting at pre-med society meetings, teaching at courses, speaking on podiums. But there's only 6% of us, so at some point we're going to be stretched so thin that I think we just can't do it all.
And yet it is really important for us to put ourselves out there so that others can see women in this position. And so I think as a committee chair looking for committee members and you ask a female orthopedic if she can be a part of it, and she says no. I think the natural process is that eventually when somebody says no a couple times, you stop asking. And maybe this is the one instance when you have to keep asking because we are just being asked to do so many things that at some point we want to say yes, but we have to wait till some of those things roll off of our current plate before we can accept other opportunities.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Yeah, Andrea, that's such a fantastic point. This is Mary just adding, I don't know if all of you guys have heard this term, but there's a term that's thrown around is the minority tax. And it's just kind of what Andrea was just saying is that because there are only so many of us, only so many of us women or racial minorities, et cetera, we tend to get tapped to do a lot of similar things and exactly that, we only have so much bandwidth. But definitely keep asking. And I think for all of us, certainly the three of us here, and many of us, it's really a driving force. This is what any of us get up for in the morning, is to try to make it better for those who come behind us. Try to open more opportunities, try to encourage more women to consider pursuing a career in orthopedics. And that really is a major driving force and a passion.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Wonderful insights. I do have to say the three of you, along with so many others that I have the good fortune to work with, are doing way more above and beyond. From an outsider's perspective, I can tell you, you are being that role model, you're being that mentor. You are inspiring. I am inspired by you all just by watching how much you do. I've interviewed Mary several times on the podcast, and every time I intro her, I have no idea how she's able to do so many of these jobs and positions. And I know Andrea and Liz, you both are also so spread thin, so kudos for investing in the future of all women and filling a gap that may not have been there for you as a young high school student, college student, med student, et cetera.
If I might humbly just add a few comments about the allyship aspect, one of my favorite interviews on the podcast was episode 100 when I interviewed our editor-in-chief of the journal, Dr. Jim Lubowitz, and it was about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And when I asked him his thoughts on what everyone should do, he kept it simple, which I think all of us appreciate. He said, "Just do something." And I think that echoes what you said, Mary, if you have a platform, use it, use it for good. And taking the first step, that's how, you know, start a marathon with taking one step. And I think any of these massive tasks such as improving the involvement and opportunities for women in orthopedics seems like a somewhat insurmountable task 10 years but everybody just has to start doing something.
So if you're looking to help, I think just look around yourself and just do anything, take one step forward and then it will snowball. So I appreciate all of you sharing your inspirational thoughts and examples, some of this movement in the positive direction. That being said, I think we all agree we still have some room for improvement and quite a long ways to go. I'd like to ask perhaps one of the more difficult questions now when it comes to DEI, in particular, with respect to our discussion topic today of women in orthopedics. How do we define success? Is there an objective data point or a collection of metrics we're all working towards? Or as I suspect more likely, is there some other more holistic definition of success that could maybe be more clearly defined? Andrea, let's start with you again.
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
So I think we talked about this briefly, but I think with a little bit more than 50% of the population being female, a little bit more than 50% of medical students, graduates being female, maybe success in orthopedic surgery at reaching gender diversity, we would be greater than 50% female. So if that's the case, we have a really far ways to go, but I guess that would be one objective measure to define success.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Okay. Liz, what are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
So I love aspiring to 50%, but there's that theory of critical mass, and they say that that's around 30%, and that's the number when you have enough potentially, let's say females or underrepresented minorities, that their voices are heard and they're not afraid to use their voice. And that's about the number where they say we start to see that culture change. So I think we're slowly creeping towards that, and I hope once we can reach that kind of critical mass, then we'll really be able to see more success in our field with more diverse city in our leadership positions. And when we start to see that, hopefully it's going to funnel down the pipeline, but I'm already seeing success and I think it's already... Orthopedics is an amazing place to be, especially for our next generation. And I think all of us love what we do, and it's only going to get better and better.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Great. I love that optimism, Liz and positivity. Mary, what are your thoughts on this?
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Yeah, I love the concept of a critical mass. I think that that's so important mean we see it in general surgery. We often look to general surgery a lot for what they have done also to be successful. I think somewhere around probably 35% of practicing surgeons and maybe even their residents are woman. But I think that that's a really, really important goal and a good objective measure. Some other measures, which I don't know if it can be objective, but certainly we are seeing it, we touched on this a little bit, but we are seeing very big changes in our orthopedic societies at our annual meetings that there is a major diversity focused session in the main part of the program.
We're seeing that at the Academy. We're seeing that on our sports medicine subspecialty societies and otherwise. And I think that that also is a way to define success, that we are making a difference, that things are getting better. I was a resident 11 years ago. This was never a topic of discussion. And so I think we've made huge progress in that relatively short period of time, and I think there's more and more initiatives that are ongoing. So it's I think, really promising for the future.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Before we conclude, I'd like to take the opportunity, especially since this is a podcast through digital media, to have each of you call attention to some folks doing some great things in our field and promote them and their efforts and their successes. I'd really like if each of you could give a shout-out to some of those who currently inspire you and who we should all be paying attention to. And either following on social media, inviting to our panels or introducing ourselves to in-person at the next meeting. Let's really, let's support each other and promote some folks that maybe others may not know about or something of the sort. So Mary, why don't you give a shout-out to a couple folks that you really think we all need to be paying attention to.
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
Well, there are so many incredible people who are very committed to improving diversity in a lot of different respects and hard to focus on just a few, but some of whom I interacted with recently, and certainly everybody on this podcast is now is overwhelmingly committed to improving diversity. And I respect, and I'm constantly inspired by all of you. In addition to that, I'd say, for example, we had a diversity focused kind of round table discussion at the academy. And many of the people there, I mean Monica Pieras, who's very actively involved in AALOS, the Society for Latino Orthopedic Surgeons.
Leticia Bruwer, who's been on the RJOS Board of Directors and has been huge in advocacy and just many others, like Lisa Latanza was there and of course was one of the founders for the Perry Initiative. So those are just some examples of the many, many people who are overwhelmingly committed and I wouldn't even call it an initiative, but who are very, very committed to improving this, which is critical to our profession, to patient care, to the progress of our field. And so I just continued to be inspired by all of them.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
That's great, Mary. Thanks, Liz. Who do you think we should give a shout-out to?
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
So there are so many incredible people that are bringing awareness to this currently. I would love to give a shout-out to all the ladies of the Forum, which is a women's sports medicine group, and I think maybe a shout-out to Speak up Ortho, to Pride Ortho and Jamie Bellamy, and all they've done. And then I think I'm going to end by just giving you a shout-out, Chris, and thanking you for giving us this voice and opportunity to just discuss some of these things and this is how we start to move forward and invoke change and bring awareness to everything. So thank you.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
That's great, Liz, this is my pleasure, believe me. Andrea, who do you want to call attention to?
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
Well, thanks Chris, and really Liz and Mary, both of you have been amazing throughout my career, all the times I've met with you over the years. I'd really like to shout out my female orthopedic colleagues here at the University of Wisconsin. We currently have eight female orthopedic surgeons. They're all doing amazing things. So our department is currently 23% female orthopedic surgeons. This includes my partner in sports medicine, Dr. Molly Day. We have a couple in pediatrics, Dr. Pamela Lang and Laura Belaire. Foot and Ankle, Catherine Williams. Spine, Miranda Bice. And then Hands, Dr. Lisa Cruz.
And we are all led by our incredible interim chair, Dr. Tamara Scerpella, who really single-handedly had an enormous role in recruiting this very gender diverse program. So I think she's somebody that really exemplifies what it means to lead by example, but then also to lead by actively reaching back and being an advocate and lifting female surgeons up. But I should also note she is a huge advocate for all of our male faculty as well, but really doing incredible work. So just want to say thanks to Dr. Scerpella, and then thank you to all the mentors that I mentioned earlier in the podcast as well. And thank you again, Chris, for putting this together.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Absolutely, Andrea, it's interesting, I can't help but observe the kind of parallel with your experience from med school. You mentioned Georgetown, you didn't have any female staff and then after your experience in residency at Johns Hopkins. Now you're in a similar type of program. I think that's just wonderful to see how you've been able to surround yourself with so many talented surgeons, a lot of whom are female, and that success just kind of begets more success. So I think that's an interesting theme that we've touched on a few times here. And I wanted to echo what Liz and Mary had mentioned. There's some organizations, not even just individuals, all of whom are active on social media and definitely deserve follows, such as RJOs of which Dr. Mulcahey was just the immediate past president, or she is the immediate past president. The Perry Initiative, the Forum, so many other organizations that support DEI initiatives.
And I'll give a special shout out to my own subspecialty society, the Society of Military Orthopedic Surgeons with our DEI chairman, Dr. Marvin Dingle, who's currently in hand fellowship, who recently started a separate social media account for the DEI committee for SOMOS. And there's just so many great follows on social media out there, you can't help to feel at least a little bit of connection to people who you may not have met in real life yet, but always look forward to at a meeting. So thank you to you three. This has been an incredibly insightful discussion. I truly appreciate your thoughts and your efforts. I learned a lot, specifically Mary, mentioning the intentional effort, Liz mentioning the Shine Theory and Andrea outlining so many of the barriers to success, including exposure and mentorship and family leave and stereotypes. I think this is just a great springboard to continue discussions in and amongst yourselves at your programs and with others. Does anyone else have any other closing thoughts or comments before we conclude?
Dr. Mary Mulcahey:
No, I think just thank you again, Chris, for hosting this and really just continuing to draw attention to these very important topic. And to the progress that's been made and still the work that we have to do.
Dr. Elizabeth Matzkin:
I would just give a shout-out to all the young women out there, be confident in your goals and abilities and come join us.
Dr. Andrea Spiker:
I would agree with all of that, and thank you for being an advocate and an ally as well.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
Excellent. Well, Drs. Mary Mulcahey, Elizabeth Matzkin, and Andrea Spiker, you are all inspirational leaders in the field of orthopedic surgery and sports medicine. I want to personally congratulate each of you on your entire collective volume of work that you have done and continue to do. And I want to thank you for sharing your time and your thoughts with all of us today. This concludes this edition of the Arthroscopy Journal Podcast.
Dr. Chris Tucker:
The views expressed in this podcast do not necessarily represent the views of the Arthroscopy Association or the Arthroscopy Journal. Thank you for listening. Please join us again next time.
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