Episode 60: Full Disclosure

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Stairway to Redemption.

This week I have a recurrent guest on the podcast. My dear friend Rich is back to give his take on this week topic.  How much should a person in recovery should disclose about their sobriety? As usual please follow us on social media and support us on Patreon.

Transcript

Benyi: 0:05

Hi, my name is Benny Johnson. As some of you know, I've been struggling with addiction. However, I decided to change my life and went into recovery. I started this podcast 90 Days Clean, and I want to take you along in my journey. What does lie ahead of me? Let me be frank. I do not know will I ever drink again? I do not know this is how Steroid redemption was born. It is my search for answer in the real term process of what is going to work for me. It is then my aspiration to help you figure out what is going to work for you. It is our journey together. Hello and uh, welcome back to another episode of Stairway to Redemption. This week I'm back with, um, my dear friend, rich, who was, um, the subject in the hard call it. The guest on, uh, episode 33, 365 days later, uh, other episode, I forgot. And he's been like the recurrent guest on our addiction and fiction feature. Um, this week we're gonna talk about, uh, you know, first of all, our state of the man dresses. I. And also, um, the challenges of, uh, disclosing your sobriety to the public and how you should do it and how much you should disclose. Uh, but yeah, before, um, let's welcome Rich. Rich. How you doing?

Rich: 1:59

Hello. What's happening? All right. Yeah. So, uh, things are really great. I mean. I mean it, uh, things are good. Who, who's really great. You know, when somebody says, oh, everything's great. It's like, well, let's, let's tone it down. And that's why I said, uh, you know, yeah, great because I'm sober, but it's actually everything's good because I don't want to go too, too crazy overhand. And, um, you know, uh, I just hit two years, eight months. Not that I'm counting, but like, I, I. I, I was one that counted every day when I first got sober. And some people like that, some people don't. To me it helped me. It really did the first year, and then the second year it was like by month, you know? And now you know, I'm almost at three, which I'm coming. And again, it's one day at a time, staying in the present. However, it doesn't mean that you can't look forward to things. You know, where July 25th is three years for me, which is just mind blowing. I. You know, we're at, I'm at two years, eight months and, and things are going really well, and we'll see what happens. I mean, April falls is coming up, so who knows, who knows what's gonna happen on Tuesday? I'm just joking. Yeah. And again, I don't have a crystal ball, but everything is really good. And I look back to, you know, where I was and how, and then, I mean, I got a, a revelation the last. We'll get into it in a little bit. Okay. But, but I had a revelation of why I drank, and it's not like, all right, Benny, I know why I drank. Now I can let go to the bar. It's nothing like that. It's like, I, I, I realize that alcohol, I don't have a problem with alcohol. I had a problem with me and, and certain situations. And alcohol was just, I it like they always say, and it's very, everybody says it. At one time or the other, you know, a temporary solution for a permanent problem. And, and that's what it was for me. And now that I've realized why I drank, I don't wanna do it. You know, and, and, and you know, where I don't get that compulsion And, and, and I'm really like, why should, and somebody told me, and this is key to anybody that's new. You're never, you're, you are not giving something up. What you're doing is you're putting down something that hurts you from being the great person that you were meant to be. Once I heard that, I'm like, look, I'm not giving anything up. I'm just putting something down that hurts me. I mean, you would be an idiot to, to, you know, and, and forget about alcohol. Just, you know, take, so, you know, like whatever you, you, you, you're using. I don't know. Doing, you know, you take, you, you're, you're eating too much, you're having fats, you're eating all fat, you know, and this and that, and, and, or, or you're smoking or whatever, and you know, but that's hurting you. It's not, you're giving up smoking. You're not giving up food, you're just doing things. You're putting stuff down so that you could be the best version of yourself.

Benyi: 5:04

Like you're not giving up something that's bad for. Giving up something that's bad for you is not actually giving them up. It's just like, you know, because you are not getting any benefit from it anyway, so, yeah.

Rich: 5:17

Yeah.

Benyi: 5:17

I mean,

Rich: 5:17

you can make a, you could call it a sacrifice or whatever, but you know, giving it up is like, that's what I think from what I've read, what I've seen and what I've heard from different alcoholics and drug addicts and, and everybody. That's like a big thing, you know, where it's like, I think it catches everybody, oh, I gotta give this up, da da, da. And then when they realize they're not giving it up and I can still have a great time doing whatever I do, you know, I can go to a party. I, and I don't need alcohol to have a great time and be, you know, I mean, you could still be funny. You don't have to just trip all over everybody and dance on the top of the bar.

Benyi: 5:57

Yeah.

Rich: 5:59

That's the opening address that, that, or opening statement that to me right now, everything is really good and looking back and, and I don't have any regrets of the past. I, I, I, you know, the thing is, you, you look back at the past, I can't change it, but I can rewrite, I can write what the, the future ending's gonna be. And that's, that's something that is also, uh, you know, uh, uplifting to me.

Benyi: 6:27

That's good. That's, uh, beautifully said. Um, yeah, so funny thing you mentioned, like, uh, going to a party and still be funny because I wanted us to go together because, uh, lately I've been, uh, I went on a trip about like two weeks ago to a wedding in Bali, in Indonesia, and then I went on a solo trip, uh, to Australia right away to watch the Formula One race. And, and I've never been in Australia. I don't know if you know about me. I love Formula One. Oh, yeah. But, um, the trip in Bali was for a friend, uh, from college that, uh, I haven't seen in a while. And, and most of the attendees, not most, but a lot of them were friends from college that necessarily didn't know that now I'm sober. And the weeks, uh, leading to. I had like some minor, um, concerns because I started thinking of, you know, ahead and the discussion we'll have, how much I will have to disclose to people that, you know, I no longer drink about my sobriety. You know, explain myself what happened. And, uh, that actually, um, led to the topic. The main topic of this episode is, uh, how much should you tell about your sobriety when you go in public? You know, um, beforehand, I could always wear, I mean, I'm wear my sobriety on my sleeve, you know, when I, whether, but I noticed there's a difference between. When you meet new people and you tell them that you're sober versus meeting the people you used to party with like 10 years ago? Because I graduated college in, what, 2012. Mm. And a lot of those people I haven't seen in years. Right. I haven't seen, uh, there was my former roommate there, which, uh, we had a falling, uh, uh, falling out after he move out because, I mean, I don't, our, let's say we are not compatible as roommates. Uh, we squashed things like we, you know, it was a good time seeing him over there. That was, that was great. Running into him, like, you know, we, we amended things and, uh, yeah. Even like at first, thinking about the person that, uh, I, going there and seeing him or running into the people that I haven't seen in a while and telling them that now I'm sober. I was a little bit appreh at how much I should disclose, but. Hey, this is, um, uh, this is the topic of this episode and, uh, we, we, we gonna get to it. But, uh, yeah. So now that the first three, uh, the state of the mind address are like, um. Yeah, let's start with, uh, what, what, what do you think? But,

Rich: 9:18

but one thing I, I do wanna tell you is, you know that, you know when once you leave the United States, you could have a drink and you could like have two different sobriety. No, I'm getting anybody out there listening that is total like nonsense. I'm just joking that, you know, all of a sudden you could be like, oh, I'm three years sober in the United States, but. In Europe. I'm three days. But, um,

Benyi: 9:40

funny enough about that, when, uh, my two year anniversary happened, when I was in, uh, oh, on that trip, right? I was, uh, actually it was when I was on my way to Bali because my anniversary is the 5th of March. And, uh, so I didn't get the coin and I didn't care. But when I was in Australia, somebody asked me when was my sober day and I told, oh, I just hit the two, uh, you know. I just hit two years on the 5th of March and the instant they insisted on giving me my two year coin. So I got my two coin in Australia at the meeting. Like that was crazy. That is, yeah. Like, you know, for me, who doesn't like to celebrate anything? Like my birthday also happened when I was Australia. One of the best. March 12th March. I, the

Rich: 10:25

reason I know that is because. Mine's April 12th. Yeah. And I celebrate mine like a champ. So

Benyi: 10:31

I, I don't like to separate. Hey, I was so happy. Nobody knew. I went to like a, uh, to a, to um, I went to um, to, uh, a gym. Funny enough, I went to the boxing gym. I went to. I had a AA meeting on Tuesday. Oh, wow. And I went to that AA meeting. It's crazy. It's a men's meeting at a boxing gym. Oh. But it's, it's a, it, it's, it's weird like the serty of things, man. Like you, sometimes you're like, is it it, it's too scripted to be. Be a coincidence, right? Yeah. I'm a guy who loves boxing. I type AA meeting, boom. It says like, oh, Leo Barry's boxing gym. There's a AA meeting there. I'll go there. And by the way, that's the oldest gym in the Southern Hemisphere was built in 1957. You go all in there, it's like old school. With the bags, the posters, the ring, like the floor. Even it's old school. I'm like, wow. Yeah, it was, and they don't allow tripods and they don't allow fucking tripods there, man. Like, fuck those tripods. All right. I, but like, no, I wanted, you know, I wanted to, to circle back a little bit on the why I don't celebrate my birthday. Like I have, like, you know, like, um. Not issues, but I'm uncomfortable when I'm like the center of attention of those like events like that, any celebratory event. Because for me, when people who attend those events for me, I have a hard time showing the same level of appreciation regardless of the degree of affinity I have with a person. He pushed me to be self-conscious about it. I'm like, I want to be fair and nice with everybody who showed up, right? So during, during the event, I'm like, okay, I cannot talk to Rich too much. Rich is my boy. I cannot show him too much favoritism. I need to talk to everybody the same equal time or show like everybody the same appreciation. And then he, he messes with my head. So like, I'm not, I'm not enjoying this. Like, you know, I'm like, okay, yeah. Like, you know, like, but when, uh, so he pushed me. I remember like when I did my first communion, we had a party and. My mom like put like, was like, okay, do remember to say thank you to this aunt? Make sure they call her Like during the party I was getting phone call. My mom was like, oh yeah, it's your Aunt Michelle. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, leave me alone. I started crying, you know? Yeah. Like, and I'm like, why are these people wishing like even random, random people wish me happy birthday sometime. It's so like. False hollow in me. I'm like, you don't know me. Like, fuck off me. You know? It takes me a minute. It takes me a minute to be like, Hey man, they're just being nice. Stop being a dick. But like, you know, like it doesn't ring true to me. Like the same way, like if for example, rich tells me Happy Birthday or happy anniversary, then a random person in the street or in a meeting who tells me happy anniversary or happy birthday, you know, like. I don't know. That's how my brain is wired. But anyway. Well, I sent you a picture

Rich: 13:48

on your birthday. It was a picture of Stevie Wonder and said, I know I won't see you, but happy birthday anyway. But you know, I could see that. But you know, the thing is about like a eighth and, and, and keeping it anonymous. Uh. It all depends on, to me, it all depends on the situation. I mean, I walk around

Benyi: 14:11

mm-hmm.

Rich: 14:12

With the sweatshirt or the t-shirt from no matter what club here and, and it, and it'll have the symbol, you know, the triangle in the circle and it'll say eight 15, no matter. And. Long Beach, New York, but it won't say like AA on it, but like mm-hmm. Anybody that see it and it says 2024, they think it's 24 hours. Couple of people that's hurt, but it was for 2024. But you know, if you know people who see it, they know other people that see it, they don't, you know, so it's, it's like, it's interesting. And um, so I do walk around with that, you know, that. To let people know, but I don't really broadcast it to other people where I'm saying, like, the first word out when I meet someone, the first word out of my mouth is I'm an aa. You know, I, I, I don't, I don't do that. I don't do rich, grateful alcoholic, how you doing? You know? But it, if, if the subject comes up, I don't mind talking about

Benyi: 15:15

it. Yeah.

Rich: 15:15

Only when it comes up and, and it's happened to me where. Someone brought, you know, and, and she's a good friend of mine, this, this, this, uh, woman Amy, and she's also a client of mine, but I didn't know she was in aa. Mm-hmm. And she was in for like 18 years. She's been in, or that was at the time when I met her much, she must be at least 20 years now, maybe more. But like, and it didn't come up, but I was saying something to her and she was like, sounds like. You know, or whatever. And, and then she's like, by the way, I've been in the program for, you know, 18. And then, and then we just, and she didn't have any, and that's the great thing about people mm-hmm. That are in the program. They, they really respect you and this and that. And it didn't change anything about like their, you know, like it's a client of mine and it wasn't like, oh, I wonder if he did me Right. You know? Yeah. You know, with, with what he recommended, you know, for, for what he does. But it didn't. And, and that's the one thing that gets me a little, I don't tell everybody, but if it comes up, I do. You know, and I don't have a problem with that. I will tell any, and, and like I was at, I work out at two gyms and, um, the one, the other gym that I work out at, um, I don't know if we say names. No.

Benyi: 16:33

Yeah. I mean, yeah,

Rich: 16:34

so, so Onyx is one. Where we do the boxing Yeah. And everything. Mm-hmm. And that's the main one. That's a great gym. And then there's Planet Fitness, which is close to me. And I go there'cause it's like three, three minutes away from my house. But I was talking to someone and, and someone, and we just came, you know, and it was this woman and, uh, Betsy, I remember her. And, and we were talking and this and that and, and, um. She was like, I'm a friend of Bill. And I was like, all right. And it was just something that I had said to her in passing. We was talking at the, at the gym and then, and then it turned into like a 15 minute conversation. We hugged each other and, and, and it's because you understand and she has about the same amount of sobriety as I do, but she still only goes to on Zoom. She doesn't go to, but I told her, come down to Long Beach, you know, and, and so. It's like when you meet some of these people, it's like you met a long lost friend and, and, and it was real. So I don't, you know, some people don't like saying things, you know, they're like, oh, I can't say that, this or that. But I don't know. I think it's, I think it's kind of, um,

Benyi: 17:45

like, uh, let me ask you this.

Rich: 17:47

Free freeing. Yeah. And, and it's kind of like, it really frees you when you say that to someone. And I tell you the truth, there are a people that. Have asked me, friends of mine to go out for drinks and this and that, and like I've done things for them and they'll, oh, I owe you a couple of drinks. I just, I don't respond. I, and it's just like, yeah, we can do that sometime.

Benyi: 18:10

Yeah.

Rich: 18:10

And I, because I don't wanna say it by text or over the phone. I want to tell the person, like, then that's the thing. Oh, okay. If it's, if it's a close friend or it's somebody that knows me, I want to tell them face to face. Of course, if they live in another state, it's hard. Or if they live in California or wherever. But like for the most part, people that know me from the pit, I wanna tell them face to face. I don't know, that's just a personal thing for me where I wanna say, Hey, you know, by the way, I'm in, um, AA and I, I went to, uh, I went to, um, rehab and all of this stuff. Mm-hmm. And then maybe it will help them. That's why probably I wanna say it face to face, but I get it.

Benyi: 18:51

Uh, what I wanted to ask you is like, were you about ever like, uh, afraid of the stigma and misconception that people have about addiction? Especially, you know, when they disclose that, like, you know, like, I was really nervous

Rich: 19:04

with that friend of mine, Amy from, you know. Mm-hmm. And she's a member of, of this, but she just hasn't been here in a while. She's a member of our club here. She knows all the people. She knows Joe, Kristen, she, you know, and. And I was at first afraid to say, but then it just came off. And that's the one thing that I don't know. And the thing is that this is interesting because the priest at my church asked me to write something for the bulletin about, because he thinks it's an amazing story. My story of like how I came, you know, and how I realized what was bad and how everything's good now. And also I got. Healed at a mass, at a healing mass with my shoulder. I was in a major accident. We'll get into that later. Yeah. But, but you know, and he wanted me to write something and, but this is like a parish that I've been going to since I was like, I. A little kid since I was seven in 79, so I was like 12 years old going to this pa. So everybody knows my mom, my dad, the family, everybody. So if I write this and you know, I don't mind writing it, but then it's like I. Still, I'm like, well, I don't want them to say, you know, have a connotation. I, I don't know. I'm, I'm still that I'm going back and forth whether or not I'm gonna write it, I might write how I finally got, you know, I don't know if I'm gonna say it sober or a, I, I don't know how I'm gonna do it, to be totally honest with you. Yeah. As you can tell, I'm still working my way through that because. Not that it, it, it wouldn't bother me, but if I wrote it and then, you know, then my, I, I wouldn't want my parents then all this, or my sisters or whatever, and it doesn't really matter. Oh.'cause they're all proud of me. But, you know, I, I think it would just go along and, and these are people that don't know, and they're some, yeah. Members of the parish that are family. Mm-hmm. And they don't know that I went to rehab. Yeah. They're like cousins and this and that. And then. Not that I would have to explain anything, but then it would just open up a can of worms. Not in a bad way, but it would just be like, ah, you know, and why did you, you know, they would be supportive, but then they'd probably be like, why'd you wait so long to tell it? You know? So I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm like playing that, not, not game, but it's going back and forth mm-hmm. Of how to word it. And, because the thing is, I think whenever we talk like your podcast. When we write something, when we do something, when we meet somebody, when we go to meetings and we talk, reaching someone out there and just like letting them know that it's okay to be in this situation. That's why I'm like, you know, saying, you know, it's not a bad thing. Yeah. Because you can help another struggling person, whether it be food addiction, regular drug addiction, alcoholism, or whatnot.

Benyi: 22:11

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, uh, yeah, I can see that like, you know, um, like me personally, when, um, when I think about disclosing it is the, do I fear stigma or like misconception? Not really. Like I snap out of it really quick because. I remember how I felt, the level of despair I felt. Hmm. Like there's nothing that can be done with, to me that I've not done to myself worse. And when I think about that, I'm like, I. It's not like what somebody else thinks that's gonna hurt me. You know, like the level of hurt that I did to myself, that I did to my loved ones man, like is nothing in proper reason to like somebody else thinking that I don't know that I'm fuck up or anything like that. It doesn't really, like in my, the wave of my, I might be a little bit depressive as like, oh, should I disclose, should I not? The only time where like I'm like. Pumping the brakes a little bit is like, how, what is gonna be the scope of me disclosing it? For example, if I this, when I, when I went to Canada a few years back to watch another iPhone race, I was, uh, I had lunch with like some family of friends and a popup, you know, like a bottle of, uh. Of Jack Daniels wanted to do shots like, you know, if I wanted some and I said, no, I don't drink anymore. Like, you know, I was uncomfortable disclosing my sobriety because they're my, they my, all my parents like friends since they were in their twenties. Mm. Like the dad of, I mean, I call him my cousin, but we are not like related. Was my dad's roommate, you know, back when they were in their twenties. So like me disclosing that I'm sober, I thought will affect how they see now my parents, you know, like I don't want them to think that that's the same thing. My parents, my parents raised me wrong. Like, you know, like them, like think less of my parents. And even that. And

Rich: 24:25

your parents enabled you Yeah. In

Benyi: 24:26

that situation, yeah. The scope of my sobriety, of me disclosing will I reach. Like, you know, might give them like thoughts on like, you know how I was raised, my parents did an amazing job raising me. Oh yeah. Same,

Rich: 24:42

same with me.

Benyi: 24:42

Yeah. And that, and that, you know, thing of my addiction, I think has nothing to do with them. Like, you know, they could done like prevented like, you know,

Rich: 24:53

not to cut you off. Go ahead. But the thing is, and I wanted to bring this up. Yeah. I think. Kids or today's day and age, you can say some crazy stuff. Not crazy, but stuff can be. And it just, mm-hmm. It's accepted differently than years ago. Like, everybody hears ai, they think you're a Bowery drunk. Mm-hmm. They, they, they think you're falling down steps. You think you're the local drunk walking down the street, and it's not, you could be a doctor, a lawyer, you know, or you could be a garbage man. You could be whatever and have this problem. And it just affects so many people. But people today are more accepting of stuff like that than I. I just see it with, you know, like with kids today, they just, you know, with, with everything, and I'm not gonna bring up certain things. Yeah. Because this is just, we're talking about aa Yeah. But, you know, there are certain things that happen and they're just like, oh, all right. No big deal. Yeah. And, and, and it, and it could be, uh, just what's going on in, in the, in the world today. And, um, you know, um. But, but you know, the, the, the kid kids and young people. Mm-hmm. And I think it's who you talk to and you know, I think it's the older generations might be a little bit more like, oh, you don't talk about that. You know I'm saying that. Yeah. And the younger ones are like, right. You know, there are a lot of young kids I'm seeing now in AA and June and other things. It just might be a little bit more acceptable that you know, and which is a good thing that maybe you got a problem, you address it and you talk about it instead of let's keep it under the carpet. Mm-hmm. You know, let's keep it hidden. Let's keep it, you know. No, in a proverbial closet. Yeah. You know, with so many things, I don't, you know, we don't have to expand on that, but, you know, and I'm not saying it depends on. I, I'm not saying I agree with everything. Mm-hmm. But you know, like now things are a lot more acceptable and, you know, that's good, bad, and indifferent, but also I. Things are talked about a lot more where mental, mental, mental health, I speak mental health used to be, oh, you must be really effed up. Yeah. Really? Yeah. You got major problems that you gotta go talk to somebody. Yeah. And now it's like, I got a problem and I, I don't want, it's not that I can't talk to my parents or I can't talk to someone else, but, or I can't talk to a priest or I can't talk to this or da, but lemme go to someone professional. Mm-hmm. I think that's out in the, uh, you know, and you see NBA players saying stuff, and actors, and, and sometimes I don't like hearing from the people, the celebrities, because they can influence you in the wrong way. Yeah. But with certain, you know, like they can tell you, oh, this is the, this person's the best. But when it comes to like certain issues like mental health and I like it. And when they talk about like. Like there's a commercial now with Snoop Dogg and Tom Brady. Mm-hmm. And they're talking about like. Um, racism, but they don't say racism, but they're like, I don't like you because of this or the color of your skin, or, I don't like you because of this. And, and Snoop at the end of the commercial says, I hate that we had to do a commercial about this.'cause it was like, I don't like it because the way you look, the way you talk, the way you act. And, and, and, you know, and both of them, Tom Brady and him were like saying, yeah, this is terrible that we have to do a commercial. But it's something that has to be said.

Benyi: 28:31

Yeah.

Rich: 28:32

And I just think things are a little bit more in the open, but that still doesn't mean that I'm gonna be like. Yep. I'm an aa. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. Like, you know, and go dancing down the street, you know, skipping down. Well, if I skip down the street, then people might think something else. Yeah, you be, you know, but, but, but, but I'm saying I, you know, like, I, I just, you know, it depends, but I, I think. With people. It's easier to say and, and if it comes up like mm-hmm. You know, like I said, you don't just say, Hey, I'm an aa.

Benyi: 29:06

Yeah. Uh, so this like, actually leads me to my next question now that like even if you are ready to, or willing to tell people now, sometime you have a pressure to explain that might like stop you for, so for the wedding, for example, I haven't seen those people. For like, over like five, almost 10 years. Uh, and you know, I used to drink with them and it's not like shame, but just sometime like I play the forward and I see how I'm gonna explain it. The way to explain it. Sometime the pressure, I'm like, ah, that's gonna be a headache to have to tell people. But you know what's funny? When I was there, I barely explained anything. Like I was just like, some of them knew that I was in recovery because they follow me on social media. Mm-hmm. Those who didn't know, like the other party guests who do not know me, when they were like, oh dude, why you not drinking? I was like, I'm just don't drink. Some didn't even ask questions, man. Yeah. I didn't have to explain. One asked me if I was Muslim because it was Ramadan, and I was like, no, I'm not Muslim, I just don't drink. And they were like, they left me alone, man. Um, yeah, my former roommate who I haven't talked to, uh, 10 years prior, that like, you know, he heard that I was sober. And we sat down, talked to catch up a little bit, and it was surprised. It was like, penny, really like, you know? Uh, because yeah, some people are surprised that I'm in recovery because, uh, I was not the fumbling to like drunk. Yeah. You know. Like making a fool of myself all the time in college. Like, because I was in college, I was motivated, you know, like I was still trying to get my degree, get my citizenship. So my college days of drinking were not my, my worst, like, you know, like my day it happened. Like they

Rich: 30:59

always say it isn't until it is it. Yeah. And, and the one thing is, is that, you know, um, with people then it, it's weird because I've told other people I, you know, and they're like. They're like, you drink just as much as me, and that could, like, you're not an alcoholic. You could drink just as much as me. And, and like that could turn you into like a relapse where it's like, I'm not as bad as that man. And I was like, and all the, the, the friends who said that to me, I'm like, you're wrong because yes, we went out, we drank a lot, but then you went home. And you went to bed? I kept the party going all night. Yeah. And that's the problem because yes, you might think on the surface that, oh, you don't drink that much, you know?'cause we were hanging out together, but you don't know what happened. And, and it's like anything, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. And you know, that's the thing there, there's some people that like, who, you know, I mean, there's always a different way to say it. You could say, oh. I, I went to the doctor and I found out that I'm allergic to alcohol. Yeah. That's why I don't drink anymore. Yeah. I dunno about that. That's my, no, that's an old school one. Because, because, you know, you would go to your doctor and, and say, oh, I'm allergic to alcohol now. You know, they would ask the question and it's like, oh, that's a good one. You know, but, and then they would know what, what, what, being allergic to alcohol meant. But, um, but you know, it's a, it's a, it's a very. I, I don't know. You have to tread water, tread it lightly, and, and see, and I think depending on how this, the conversation's going, you could go one way or the other.

Benyi: 32:40

Yeah. And also the other thing that comes with the pressure of explaining you, you, um, expose yourself, uh, you, you know, expose yourself. To some intrusive questions from other people. You know, they can ask you like, what's your drug of choice? What's the most fucked up thing that you did? Like, you know, for example, I remember when I talked to somebody about it, I said like, I heard a lot of people. You know, like that I'm not proud of. And you know, like, you know, they said and then asked, said, oh, do you want to tell me what you did? Like? I'm like, no. Like, what the fuck, man? Like, that's like, I'm not gonna tell you every single person I hurt. Like, you know, like I don't, it's not that I probably, maybe that I don't want to relieve it right now, but also like, that's very like, you know, like personal, it's like almost a fifth step when like admitting to your, another. Human being like, uh, your wrongdoings, like, yeah, you don't, you don't admit those things to a random person, right? Like, there's a degree of affinity of closeness that you say, you know, that you see to be you not, you not go ahead and be vulnerable to everybody, you know. Like when you explain like that you, some people are, I don't know, it comes with intention, but you can tell that some people just want to know, oh, what's the worst thing that you can do? Like, you know, like they wanna hear the gory details. Yeah. Like, I'm like, nah, you know's. Yeah. I'm not a drunk a lot.

Rich: 34:08

Yeah. I don't need to do that. You don't need to. Do they wanna just hear it for whatever? Yeah. Because I think people today. They're a voyeuristic society. Not that they would see it, but they wanna know, what did you do Benny? And how that, and, and, and it's like, come on. You know? Or, or what did you do, Rick? And it's like, I'll tell certain people, but then when they start crying and they're like, tell me more. And I'm like, no, I'm not. You know, that's, that's not, you know, that's not gonna happen because it gets, you know, it gets crazy. Yeah. And, um. No, but you know, I, I think, and, and, and the people that know you or other people, and they respect that because they'll know when to stop prying. Mm-hmm. Because other people will just

Benyi: 34:57

pry pry. Yeah. Thery part is like, yeah. Like that loss of privacy. Like, you know, like they want to hear the gory details. Yeah. And it's

Rich: 35:05

like, well, you know, why, why should I have to tell that to you?

Benyi: 35:09

Yeah.

Rich: 35:09

You know?

Benyi: 35:11

The other thing that I wanted us to talk about was the social awkwardness and sometimes the isolation that comes, like when people want now know that like you're sober, uh, like they want, like not being included in some social events or trying to, like, what's your take on that? Like, do you care that people try to cater, cater to you or, okay. There are two things here. There's one. One scenario where like you can be now excluded of social events because, um, because like people go to places where they're gonna be a lot of drinking. And they don't want to invite you because they don't for various reason. For example, they don't want you to feel uncomfortable or they don't want you to relapse or, you know, like they don't, maybe don't want even to be around a sober person. You know, I'll, uh, let's start with that scenario. I'll tell you, I'll

Rich: 36:05

tell you it happened. Mm-hmm. And it happened like when I first. And for, and thank God, I mean, I pray and I thank God every day that this came not easy, but it just, there were really, I, I mean there are a couple of things, you know, you know my story, there are a couple of things where I could have relapsed, you know? Mm-hmm. With bleep bleep and also with the, the thing with the sponsorship. You know, when my sponsor and I kind of. Hearted ways. Mm-hmm. Amicably, but, you know, that could have forced me to go Dr. You know, set me back to drinking. But it didn't. But, so I, I'm blessed that I was able to embrace this program so much and that it, I really lost the compulsion to drink quickly, you know? Or not quick. Yeah. I guess quickly, because I know we talked about this in the past, that some people. At meetings, older people almost wanted us, not us, wanted me or you or whatever to fail. Not to fail, but like why did it happen so easily to you?

Benyi: 37:16

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Like, yeah. No, only they didn't want us to fail. They didn't want us to

Rich: 37:22

fail, but they were like, oh, you didn't have sweats and you didn't have this. Yeah, you didn't have this, and you didn't have this like we did when we went through and it's like, well, everybody's different and you should be more happy that it came easily to to us. But the thing was, it was a couple years ago, my sister. I went to a Yankee game and we always went to Yankee games with our kids and her husband and this and that. I was like, oh, what am my Swiss cheese? You know, or, or do I smell or something? You didn't invite me? And she was like, oh, well, you know, I didn't want to because you go to Yankee game and there's, and, and we always sit in the bleachers and that's just a drunk fest, but not a drunk fest. But there's a lot of beer and beer and, and there's a lot of alcohol at. At any sporting event, and she just thought that, you know, it would not be conducive for my sobriety. And I'm like, what? I'm never gonna go to a Yankee game ever. I'm like, I went on and I told her, I said, I went with Benny. I said, we went to a game. And she knew that. And she's like, yeah, but that's your, you know, and I'm like, yeah, but. Yeah, but what, just because the two of us go, then there's no alcohol around us, you know, because we're both sober. Then all this sudden, I'm like, if I sit with you, I sit with Benny, I sit with anybody, there's gonna be somebody drinking or there's gonna be alcohol around her, you know? And then so she, she then she was like, all right, I get it. And then, and now she sees more. And, and I respected that. Mm-hmm. Because she didn't want anything bad to happen. Yeah. So I totally loved that she, she did that, and then wa wasn't like, ah, come on, we're gonna go get, you know, we're gonna be drinking, but you have to sit there and not, you know, and you know, and like, kind of like open the beer in front of my nose. Sorry, you can't have it. Yeah. No, it wasn't like that. But um, that was, that was one thing. And, and now, and now I mean, relatives and friends, I can, I can be at a party or a situation and they can have alcohol in front of me. It doesn't bother me.

Benyi: 39:31

Yeah. Like, uh, I empathize with your secretion. Like, I wouldn't like to be babied either. Like, you know, don't tell me. Like, don't think for me, like that's a thing that like, you know, like, why don't you, you should like proper, I, what I would like to have happen to me was, hey, ask me if, uh, is, is we going to the game, for example, ask me if it's gonna be okay for you to come. You know, are you gonna be triggered? Do you feel comfortable? Don't make that decision for me that like, oh no, I'm not gonna invite you because you're not gonna, you know, like, I'm not sure if you, but I guess. Like, since she is your sister, it might have come from a place of love. I, I think, yeah. And

Rich: 40:16

I get it that way. Mm-hmm. Because I'm like, alright, you know, and, and that I understand, but I was like, yeah, but I'm like, now I, we're gonna go to a Yankee game. We're, we're, we're trying to plan to do something. Mm-hmm. Because my birthday's coming up. Sometime around there in April, maybe we're gonna go to a game, seeing if the kids, you know,'cause now they're. Uh, their school schedule and, and just to see what we could do. Yeah. But, you know, so now it's different, but I mean, I'm gonna, it's going, it's going on two, well, it's two years, eight months. Yeah. So, you know, but I, but she understands and I said, look.

Benyi: 40:53

Mm-hmm.

Rich: 40:54

If, if I'm gonna relapse, it's not gonna be because you brought me to, we

Benyi: 40:58

do a fucking ye Yeah. It's not gonna

Rich: 41:01

be that. It's gonna be. And, and I'm like, it's, it's my decision. Mm-hmm. Because that was the same thing that happened when I was hanging out with Bleep Uhhuh and, um, I started smoking. I, I had quit for 16 years, 17 years. Then what was with her had like one cigarette. Then I'm like, let have another one and then gimme half a pack. And then I started buying stuff and vaping and all this and that. And, you know. Some people had said, oh, it's was her fault. And I'm like, mm-hmm. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. I'm like,'cause if I say that, then that's, then that's totally different than what I believe in with the alcohol. Yeah. So it was my choice to smoke a, now it's over a year that I haven't had a cigarette. So now you could say out of 16, 17, 19 years, eight 18. Uh. 17 of them were, were, I hadn't smoked in 17, in 19 years. So, you know, that's not, that's not that. Uh, and I'm not saying I don't have a crystal ball. Who knows? Yeah. But I know now that I have to watch myself with all sorts of, you know, indifferent influences. Not anybody in specific, but you know. I, I wanted to, because I wanted to have the cigarette and this and that, and I wanted to try it or, or have one. I didn't had one. And, um, I had done that every so often. Even during my 16 years of not smoking. I had like tried a cigarette here or there, and. But I still considered myself not having a cigarette. You're like, no. Yeah.'cause I never bought a pack. Yeah. And I never, you know, it was not consistent. And it wasn't consistent. I had like a, I said, let me have a cigarette. I off a friend of mine, you know, from a friend of mine.

Benyi: 42:52

Yeah.

Rich: 42:53

But, you know, um, but that's the situation, you know, with people. And I love that they're protecting me, but when it comes down to it. All right, so you protect me from the Yankee game and you protect me from going to the bar and you protect me from going to some other sporting event. You protect me from going to, who knows? The circus? Yeah, the circus. Or you prevent or you know, don't go down to, to Disney World. Oh, yeah. Or whatever. That's just keeping stuff away. So then what does it mean I can't live my life? Yeah. And that's the thing, because you wanna be, you, me, anybody wants to live their life like they do. And you know, so, because there are people that, you know in the program 32 years and it's like, oh, I can't go to Yankee Stadium. Oh, I can't go to, yeah. Like I can't go to a concert. Ooh, I can't do this. I dunno how to do, like, are you really sober or are you just. Avoid

Benyi: 43:50

it. Yeah. They're just, uh, putting like, you know, themself in the closet turning off the light and just hoping that like, you know, nothing that at the same time Yeah. I mean, that they're going through. So for me that's not a, a way of living seven meetings a day. Like, nah, that's, that's, that's, that's not a, is not my life a help me have a handle of my life. But, uh. But when it comes to me, I think I've been fortunate enough to have friends who, who didn't try to baby me or like, you know, I used the term baby, but like, you know, to, to patronize me. I have a friend, uh, shout out to them, uh, Natasha and Carlo, who are Penn born, the lower side called Batesman after Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, they opened their bar. Uh, I was at the inauguration of the bar. Uh, ask, uh, Natasha to, Hey man, like, you know, like with the big, um, sober career, uh, rise of the sober career movement, it will be great if you cater also to people who don't want to drink that, like, uh, some interesting, um. Her bar is a cocktail bar, like some interesting, uh, Nonna. Oh no, no. Nonna, alcoholic options. And she does, she actually, where is she? Where? Uh, it's in the Lower East side on, uh, what's the name of it? Batesman.

Rich: 45:07

Batesman,

Benyi: 45:08

yeah.

Rich: 45:09

Oh, okay.

Benyi: 45:09

Uh, like Patrick Batman. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, from American Psycho. Um, yeah, so, uh, yeah, you know, it was fun. I, I made up with some friends that I haven't seen in a while. People were having a good time. I did not feel excluded. Uh, I tried a non-alcoholic option, like, you know, it was not just me drinking soda or ginger, which is another thing that like. You know, um, I mean, you know, like, which kinda sad that like most, like, I mean, right now the movement is strong, like the sober career, more establishment of like non-alcoholic options that are something else than soda.

Rich: 45:45

I think they're trying to do that because more, some people now it's out in the open. Mm-hmm. They're getting sober and it's like, I'm gonna lose money by, by not. Having something for these people. Yeah. Because then they're not gonna go to the bar or whatever. But, you know, I was thinking about it with the, with the BA baseball and also you and I, we went to games. We went to the Knicks game mm-hmm. For your birthday last year, right? Yeah. And, and, and we, we had, there was alcohol around us and, and you know, each time we could have, you know, um. We could have had something if we wanted. And, and that's like a choice on yourself. And, and I think it's, it's a good thing that, that, you know, and I appreciate these people looking out for you, uh, or me, or you or whoever, but at the same point it's like, don't baby me. Yeah. I'm not a child,

Benyi: 46:40

but like, yeah. I wanted to circle back to what you said like few minutes earlier about like the skepticism of some people in when. They don't think that we have struggled enough to be good and then that like, uh, because we haven't hit brick rock bottom, um, that might also apply to, you know, not just people who are in your room, but people who are from outside. When they look at you, like you said, they don't think that, oh man, I'm drinking more than, you know, I was drinking more than here. Like, how do, do you approach, like when people are kind of skeptic about. Well, your, your sobriety.

Rich: 47:19

Well, you know, the, the biggest thing I heard when it was like, when everything was going smoothly and they were like, well, you know, first year's a charm. Oh my, no, not a charm. The first year's a gift. Yeah. And then the second year is when you have to do the work and it's like, that's fucked up to say that. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, you're right. Okay. That's true. I'll keep an eye out on it, but, you know, come on. Um, I. I, I,

Benyi: 47:49

that's a way of raining on somebody's parade

Rich: 47:51

and it's like raining on the parade. Yeah. It's like,

Benyi: 47:54

oh, first year

Rich: 47:54

it's a gift, da, da da. And maybe it's just passed down. And people have been told that from other gener, other people that have gone through the program and that's what it is. But to me it's like you should just embrace people that man are doing well. Oh, you're doing well. Unbelievable. What, what is your key? Mm-hmm. What has kept you sober? That maybe I, it took me 20 years to realize.

Benyi: 48:21

No, I mean, like, I've seen and I've witnessed people who, um, who struggle after the first year. Right. Um, me, because you know, the first year they got the day count, they got all the score, they got the party, they got the kick, and then the second year they don't get all that anymore. And I've seen some people struggle, but like never, I was. I, no, I, I think the best approach is to let them come to that, uh, uh, to that crossroad when it comes, you know, when they start feeling that, oh, they don't get the same attention that, uh, that issue rises. That, you know, that the, uh, how you call it, that feeling of like. I don't want depressing feeling, but Oh yeah, I got it. When they got off the pink cloud. Let them get off the pink cloud. Yeah. And mention it. Instead of telling them while they're on not pink cloud, that, oh, this is a pink cloud. You're gonna have to get off soon. Like, you know. Yeah. That's like,

Rich: 49:24

that's like, I mean, that's, don't think that's bad.

Benyi: 49:26

That's fair. Like, let them enjoy the pink cloud and when they get off, be like, okay, amen. You on Pink Cloud. I, I

Rich: 49:32

think I'm still on the pink cloud. I don't know. You know, let it just go, keep on going and, and let it go and just continue and like, have, have positivity. I remember and I would, oh, forget it. What, what is it? I'd be in an argument with someone in my family.

Benyi: 49:53

Mm-hmm.

Rich: 49:53

My mother, my sister, and it was just over nonsense. It was so, you know, just, and it was just like, it wasn't really an argument. It was more like we were discussing stuff and, and I was like, you know what? You guys are forcing me. You're gonna force me to drink. And, and they and they would, they would get like, they would freak out. Yeah. Because they thought I would, and I'm like, I'm like, yep, I'm going up the block. You know? And then I was like, then I said that, and then we, and then afterwards I'd be like, look. Mm-hmm. I shouldn't have joked about that. Yeah. Because especially with what they knew, I was like, and for me to say something like that to them was like. Really like,'cause then I remember my sister and my mother were like, well call Benny. Call Benny. What's Benny's phone number? And I'm like, I'm not giving it to you because you call him. Oh my God. That's, you know, I think they have your number just in case we're out or something. So then they can locate. Yeah. But the thing is they're like, you're gonna go. I'm like, and then I. And I'm like, see, I'm on the argument. No, I'm on.

Benyi: 51:01

That's like holding a metaphorical gun to the head. Yeah, it's so, no, and I

Rich: 51:06

should've have used that. Yeah, you should not did that. I was not nice doing that. And then I said, and then I knew what drove both my mother and my sister, because I think I used it on both of my cys. I think it drove the, them, them crazy. And they were just like, you can't, and I, and then I apologized to them and said, look, I cannot. I apologize for doing that. Mm-hmm. I should not have said that and, but I should have won the argument by the way.

Benyi: 51:34

All right. Like, before we finish that, there's one part of the, the full disclosure we didn't, uh, address. It's on the professional setting and, you know, the career with work. Uh, how do you feel? I mean, you work for yourself, but I don't know in that setting, like, how do you feel about this? Are you, have you ever. Felt some kind of pressure that disclosing your sobriety in a work setting, job setting will affect your career or not would affect that? Yeah. Like, uh, or like your revenue or like, you know, the bottom line. I don't, it, it

Rich: 52:09

might. Mm-hmm. And that, that's why I'm like, you know, with, with the whole thing with the, with the church and writing that thing for the bulletin. Mm-hmm. On the back of the bulletin, I have an a. I have an ad for, to contact me if you need my services. Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, if I put that, you know, but I don't think so. I, I think people today, maybe years ago, yeah, maybe years ago, 30 years ago, they'd be like, oh, there's the, you know, you know. But today I think they would more or less be like. Well, maybe they have one commonality with me and they're like, you know what, I have a problem too. Yeah. But I never address it. And two other people like that is awesome that you addressed your issue and, and you got on top of it. Yeah. It, it's a, it's a, um, what do you call it? It's a, um, it's a, uh, evolving Yeah. Situation where it's like, but like I said, no matter who it is mm-hmm. Business or not. Depends on each situation. It's a, it, it's a situation by situation and it depends on, you know, where it's going. You know, and, and like, if I'm start and I'm like, well, and then, you know, it depends. There's give and take. But, you know, full disclosure, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough because you don't know what, but I think today, more so than ever before. That it's more, I mean, look at the, the amount of people, well, just on Long Island that are in aa Yeah. There's so many meetings here. Yeah. I mean that, I think it's more, and, and if it's not someone that's an alcoholic, they have a family member because Al-Anon is big. Yeah. So maybe it's like maybe you're talking to someone and then Al-Anon comes up. Mm-hmm. But there are a couple of people that I, I, I opened this up to and, and I told too. And then I was like, let me see what the repercussions are gonna be. Yeah. And it was people that I do volunteer work with and I was like, let me see what they say. And then they were like, oh, my brother's in aa.

Benyi: 54:19

Yeah. I mean, me personally, like in my profession, like, you know, like I don't, I don't mind it. I don't think it will affect my career, but I can see some scenarios like especially working for like teachers where some. It can blow back on them if, like teachers, especially knowing that in the rooms of a, there's so many teachers. If I was to, if I were to rank the professions in the rooms of a first responder, um, the most, I think, yeah, for a lot of them construction workers, I would probably put. Teachers third or fourth, there's, you always have a teacher in the rooms, like at least two. Like, you know, they, they, they, they're surfer, like they, they're the rooms and like,

Rich: 55:05

like the, the thing is, and I was telling you about it, I teach mm-hmm one night a week religion at the parish, and I am the seventh graders. I don't know if I could say it. No, I would never tell the kids it. Yeah. But if the parents felt Found out. Found out. Yeah. I don't know what their reaction would be. Mm-hmm. Because some of them,'cause I know that there was one meeting that I was going to, and it was in a parish and like the gymnasium was there and the, and it was in the basement of the gymnasium. And there was a mother that complained to the precinct, oh, well there's a bunch of alcoholics who are child molesters and my daughter is up playing, what the fuck? And, and it's like, child,

Benyi: 55:48

oh, she goes for

Rich: 55:49

alcoholics Child man. And, and she was just like, general. And it was like, you know, these are the mom, these are the moms that are sitting in the stands watching their kid and they have a beer poured into like a plastic cup or something. You know, but I, you know, and I don't tell, and the weird thing is, I've been doing the catechist work where teaching these kids for the last couple of years, and one year, not this year, but the year before, where I was just, I was, yeah, over a year sober. I got gifts for Christmas, I got bottles of wine. I donated it. I donated it. But, uh, you know, I didn't tell, I didn't say to them, oh, I don't drink because that, because I didn't know Yeah. How the, what the reaction would be. But I took it, I accepted it, I said thank you, and then I donated it. Mm-hmm. But, you know, that's the one situation where especially you're doing volunteer work. I. It depends on who you do involved in. But when there are kids involved, p people, uh, you know, parents are, are very, um, protective.

Benyi: 56:56

Yeah.

Rich: 56:57

And so they don't, some of them might just reflect back, oh, he's gonna be drunk lunch and he's gonna be, you know, and it's like, you know, he's

Benyi: 57:06

not, my kids are not safe. My kids aren't safe.

Rich: 57:08

Yeah. So, you know, and, uh, you know, and especially. I've gotten nothing but positive re uh, uh, you know, reports from the kids telling their parents how they think I'm the best thing since sliced bread. No. Yeah, there you go. But they were, and my, the person who's in charge of it tells me, well, all the kids, they, they seem to love you. Um, I was like, what? You said scene? I go, is that like, uh, she's like joking. So she was kidding with me, but she's like, no, they all love you as a teacher. And, and so. Keep up the good work. And so that's the one where I would be hesitant to tell Yeah. That. But anything else, I'm gonna full disclosure. Okay. But on a base, you know, on a base case to base case. Case, case to case, um, situation. Mm-hmm. Where, you know, and see how it's going.'cause who knows, you know, how conversations can get twisted and turned.

Benyi: 58:08

All right. So I think that's a, that's a, a great place to close this discussion or like, you know, uh, table this and, uh, let this, uh, all Yeah. But like, yeah. Thanks Rich again. Yeah. On the, let it, let it sink

Rich: 58:25

in, marinate,

Benyi: 58:27

do all that good stuff.

Rich: 58:28

Yeah. And think about it, you know?

Benyi: 58:30

Yep, yep, yep. And, uh, thank you guys for listening and uh, I will see you guys when I see you.

Rich: 58:36

Okay, cool. Bye.