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The Stephen McCain Podcast
Insightful interviews, strategies, and advice from people making world-class decisions in human optimization, performance, & longevity with Olympian Stephen McCain.
The Stephen McCain Podcast
Leveraging Cellular Medicine To Unlock The Pathways For Optimal Health, Regeneration, & Longevity with Dr Elizabeth Yurth. EP 013
Are you ready to revolutionize your understanding of orthopedics and cellular medicine? This episode features Dr. Elizabeth Yurth, a double board-certified physician in physical medicine, rehabilitation, anti-aging, and regenerative medicine. Dr. Yurth shares her journey from traditional orthopedics to a holistic approach influenced by performance athletes and bodybuilders. We discuss the game-changing potential of cellular medicine, including exosomes for arthritis treatment, and explore the complex balance needed for effective NAD supplementation.
Ever questioned the effectiveness of arthroscopic surgery for arthritis? Dr. Yurth sheds light on why arthroscopic surgery is controversial and often detrimental, especially for patients over 30. Discover the promising potential of repurposed drugs like pentosin polysulfate and learn how they could revolutionize arthritis treatment. We also delve into the intricacies of metabolic dysfunctions, personalized medicine, and the need to understand cellular pathways to better treat conditions like diabetes and autoimmune disorders.
From optimizing cellular health for longevity to discussing practical health strategies, this episode is packed with actionable insights. We explore the benefits of NAD precursors like NMN and NR, the importance of CD38 blockers, and the potential of 1-MNA for improving endurance and muscle strength. Dr. Yurth also highlights the benefits of repurposing medications like low-dose Cialis and the necessity of hormone replacement therapy as we age. Join us for an enlightening conversation that promises to equip you with the knowledge to make proactive health investments and embrace cutting-edge medical advancements.
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Welcome to another episode of the Stephen McCain podcast, where I bring you people making world-class decisions in the field of human optimization and performance so that you can look, feel and perform your best. Today, I'm very excited to have one of my favorite doctors in the whole world on the podcast, dr Elizabeth Yerth. She is a double board certified physician in physical medicine and rehabilitation, and anti-aging and regenerative medicine. She has more than 30 years of clinical experience and continues to stay at the forefront of orthopedics, cellular medicine, regenerative medicine and the future of aging. Thanks for having me understand cellular medicine. The approach becomes far more efficacious and sophisticated and we dive into some pretty cool topics about how to properly do NAD supplementation, her thoughts on exosomes, hormones, new novel way to address arthritis so many great things. I think you're going to really enjoy this podcast, so let's do this. Dr Yerth. Welcome to the Stephen McCain podcast.
Dr Yurth:Good to see you.
Stephen McCain:Stephen, yeah, I'm so excited for this one. I just absolutely adore having any opportunity to chat with you. I will never forget the first time I ever saw you at the World Peptide Congress a couple of years ago, and it was just a panel and you up there and you started speaking and I said this woman knows what she's talking about. And it's been that way ever since, every time I've seen you speak, so you're one of my favorites and I'm just I'm excited to share your knowledge with my audience and just let's see what comes of it, because every time we talk it seems to be very interesting.
Dr Yurth:Well, I appreciate that so much and I'll give you back the same kudos, because I love listening to you and I love you coming at this from a very practical sense, right? I mean, we as physicians sometimes throw out all these things and people like you are the ones who kind of refine it into well, I did this and this and this and this and this works and this doesn't work. It's really good to hear that, especially from somebody like you, who comes from this very high performance attitude which is really fun to work with. Anyway, those are the kinds of clients that are always fun to work with. So I love to live off your feedback on all this stuff, because those are the people you're like. Okay, this guy is really optimized, and if this isn't working in him, you know what are we doing wrong. So it's it's. You know, you and I always have fun talking about that stuff.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, my, my mutual appreciation for everything you're doing. Oh fantastic, you know, I it's nice to for someone like me to really be so motivated by this industry and to be able to fit in and feel capable of doing that, because, you know, when you're surrounded by I talked to more doctors than any other type of person now you know I'm constantly ripping apart their protocols. What are you doing, what are you doing? And so it's it's nice to be able to fit in. I mean, I was pre-med at UCLA, so I have.
Dr Yurth:I have some of that and then decided to be an Olympian anyway.
Stephen McCain:That was a good plan.
Dr Yurth:Yeah, yeah, I wish I could have knocked out both, but I like who I am, so I think it's all-.
Dr Yurth:Well, it's funny because, as much as you know, if I look at what I learned in medical school, it was nothing to do with what I'm doing now.
Dr Yurth:And I would say, if anything kind of distorts your brain a little bit to be able to learn these new things because you're so, start, you know, in these paradigms of medicine that have just been going from generation to generation to generation and not much really ever changes in medicine.
Dr Yurth:And it's funny, when I first got into this field, you know, I don't know many, many years ago now, probably 17 years ago, I started kind of transitioning more into this kind of work and you know, and I was like, well, I'm learning from bodybuilders. I'm actually not learning from physicians anymore, I'm learning from these people who are actually more performance athletes, who said, okay, you know, you know, like my first delve into even back then when, no, you know, a4m was 500 people and and there wasn't a whole lot of research in this area and we didn't have the Dr Seeds out there that you know it was, it was a lot learning from people who were just sort of using end of one experiments on themselves, and it was the bodybuilders and the people like you and we learned a lot from that, right, we learned a lot from the people were like okay, this is my optimal performance piece, and so it's very funny that I would say early on in this world, I learned more from that group of people than I did from the medical world.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, I mean that's so interesting because I you know, it seems like doctors.
Dr Yurth:You go through this whole 12 year process I don't know how long it is, I think it's 12 years. But and then your education done it this way. This sucks, this sucks, this sucks. And you're not going to listen to that, right? You just spent 10 years building this gorgeous house that you think is perfect, and now when somebody comes in and says probably not, you're like blah, blah, blah. I don't want to hear it. And so it's really hard to change physicians. They are very set in their paradigms and changing that is almost impossible. You know, sometimes is impossible.
Dr Yurth:I will tell you like I came from the orthopedic worlds, like Bill seeds and you know, coming from orthopedics, which is about as far a cry from doing anything sort of health focused. And you know these guys don't want to ever hear that we should be doing anything different, because they're, you know they're making good money and they're doing well replacing your joints. And you know, and why should we change? And you know I, you know I did orthopedics, solely orthopedics, for 17 years before I ever started studying longevity, functional health, medicine, and then I tried to do both and my partners finally came to me and said you know what? We don't do medicine here. We do orthopedics. You need to stop getting labs and stop talking to these people for 30 minutes and I'm like you know? Okay, obviously this isn't working, yeah.
Stephen McCain:Wow, yeah, and it's. It's also probably compounded by the fact that these orthopedic surgeons are I mean, trust me, I've had, I've been operated on many times as a professional athlete. They're rock stars Like I've. I've been operated on by literally rock stars of orthopedics and they're tremendous at what they do. But if you don't have to open me up and there's another way to do it, utilizing cellular medicine, I'm all in on that, if possible, or prevent.
Dr Yurth:Most orthopedics is not fixing your broken bone. You had acute injuries, you had these things with gymnastics, but that's not most orthopedics. Most orthopedics is not fixing your broken bone, right? You had acute injuries, you have these things with gymnastics, but that's not most orthopedics, right? Most orthopedics is your people developing arthritis. It's the, you know, nursing along people who have a worn out joint and putting steroids into it until you replace the joint. That's most orthopedics.
Dr Yurth:Certainly, we're never going to not need orthopedics to fix my broken bone. Or you know, I a couple months ago completely tore off my rotator cuff lifting and needed to be put back together. That wasn't going to be fixed by cellular medicine. But I can markedly improve the recovery doing those things and prevent the outcome of progressive arthritis that occurs when we have, when we do surgeries on people. So I think the difference is let's take away that. You know orthopedists should fix your broken bone or put together a tendon that tore. You tore your anterior cruciate ligament, fix it. But where we're failing is in all those other people who are simply you have sore joints and they're being treated very poorly, with the ultimate outcome being replaced the joint, which is, I mean, does it work Sometimes, sometimes not. So we're doing a lot of things wrong in that world, and that's where they're not rock stars, they're rock stars, that. They're one little piece right.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, it's a really good point. A friend of mine he works in medical sales and makes great money and his opinion he does all these joint replacements and to me that stuff just seems like medieval medicine in a way it's like well, are we really doing this? Yeah, I mean, when you look at like actually what they're doing, like this is kind of modern medieval practice. And his opinion is by the time you're 60, you just start needing this and I'm like no, you don't, and that's the whole problem.
Dr Yurth:That's where I started looking at orthopedics. We're not wearing out our joints. You don't wear out your joint any more than you wear out your brain or you wear out your heart. It's an inflammatory disease, just like all those other diseases, just like brain diseases or heart diseases. And so when you go in there and you're 50 years old and you tore the meniscus in your knee and your doc's like, well, let's just go clean that up and trim it up. Well, let's just go clean that up and trim it up, I always tell people it's a lot like going in with your demented mother and the doc going, well, let's just trim out those bad parts of the brain, that'll be good, she'll be fine. That's exactly the same thing.
Dr Yurth:So when you look at arthroscopic surgery, which has been banned in every other country over the age of 30, nobody else will do it because the data is so compelling that it worsens arthritis. It's the number one surgery done here in the US for orthopedics is go up, clean out a joint, trim up a meniscus, and yet it leads to a rapidly progressive arthritis. British Medical Journal 2019 said there is no more data needed. There's so much data to support that this is a bad surgery, doing bad things, that they will not allow it, and yet we are doing it. Dime a dozen here and we're. So we're trying to treat an inflammatory disease process which we well know now, because now we have drugs and things like that that we know are working the inflammatory pathways that halt the arthritis and even reverse it. We we know that we're dealing with altered inflammatory pathways and not just. You wore out your joint because you were an athlete you know?
Stephen McCain:yeah, it's so interesting. I'm definitely all in on talking about this stuff because I've had both. Uh, had two meniscus tears, one in each knee and they just trim around it and they cut that out and right, and one of them I can my knees 100 to the left, one I'm starting to. I'm wondering if I have a little bit of some muscle imbalance issues around it or if it's starting to slightly show a little bit of maybe pre-arthritis or whatever arthritis. I mean, it's not bad, I still feel pretty amazing.
Dr Yurth:You do everything, but you've got a lot of years on it. So here's what we know about arthritis, but you've got a lot of years on it. So here's what we know about arthritis, right. So we know that when you look at people who are developing arthritis and it's most of those people who have, you know, who have painful joints is it's a combination of factors. There's genetic factors and then there's injuries. That can progress things. But when we get an injury, what is supposed to happen is our body comes in and it tries to clean things up right. So best world to happen is our body comes in and it tries to clean things up right. So best world.
Dr Yurth:You get this inflammatory reaction. All these cytokines, these pro-inflammatory enzymes, come in hard at work and they try and clean stuff. That should last a few days. Then those should turn off and we should turn on some healing processes, right. But let's say you don't have the perfect genetics or you don't have the perfect lifestyle.
Dr Yurth:Then what happens is these inflammatory proteins, things like tumor necrosis factor alpha and interleukin-1 beta, stay elevated and, as a result, instead of just cleaning up a little debris, they just keep cleaning up. So, for instance, there's this enzyme called metallomatrix protease that is elevated initially in an injury. Enzyme called metallomatrix protease that is elevated initially in an injury and it's kind of I like to think about the you know there was a crime in your house. This is a cleanup crew to kind of get rid of all the signs that there was a crime there. But if they keep scrubbing away the debris, what happens? They actually start scrubbing away the joint. So these very high levels, these metallomatrix proteases, are really detrimental to the cartilage of congenital grafts. Let's say you tear your cartilage of your knee right and now somebody goes in the scopes and they trim out that little torn piece which temporarily is going to make you feel better because the knee is going to feel more stable, and these pro-inflammatory enzymes come in. They start trying to help out. Then they stick around a little bit too long. Now you start actually not just cleaning up what happened but cleaning up your own cartilage. So we know very well now that in joints we have very high levels of these enzymes, we have very high levels of these inflammatory cytokines and that if we block those that we actually halt and even reverse the arthritis.
Dr Yurth:So we need to stop thinking of this disease as a wear and tear. It is completely and utterly an inflammatory disease process. And so we are using a drug, a repurposed drug, called pentosin polysulfate. So pentosin polysulfate, which has been approved in Australia by a company called Paradigm Pharmaceuticals it's called Xylosol. It's in phase three trials here in the US to cure osteoarthritis and in fact in Australia it's done just that. It's reduced the need for joint emplacements by almost 90%. One-year follow-up studies showed almost 25% improvement in cartilage space after one year on this drug 25% improvement in cartilage space in an arthritic knee, whereas the placebo drug had a 4% loss in cartilage space.
Dr Yurth:So not only are we helping pain, but we're actually reversing the disease process, and that's all by using a drug that is blocking these inflammatory processes right. So we know that we can reverse it by stopping the inflammatory process. You don't have to just replace the knee joint. We can actually reverse this process. So this drug's in phase three trials right now here in the US. We actually can get it compounded because it is an orally available drug here in the US called Elmiron. So orally it's for bladder inflammation. But if you inject a little sub-Q injection of it a couple of times a week it actually works systemically and at a much lower dose, so systemically, to actually stop this arthritic process, and oftentimes within 12 weeks people have reduction in pain. It takes longer to start seeing the changes in cartilage space and sometimes people take a little longer.
Dr Yurth:But it's dramatic, and I've been on this. I have horrible arthritis in my knees. I've torn my ACLs four times, and so anybody who looked at my knees would say, oh my God, you just need joints replaced. But I have zero pain. I'm totally functional because I'm on this medication. I've been on it for now three years. It's dramatically worsening. Now. I have lots of patients who we can treat for a short period of time and they get better. I kind of need it ongoing. If I don't take it, I start over time. Over a few months it'll start increasing a little bit of pain in my knee. So I know that, whatever my genetics are, I need to block these enzymes. I need to block these cytokines that are doing the damage.
Dr Yurth:But, Stephen, it's actually dramatic and it's going to make a huge shift in how we treat arthritis. It'll get approval for knee osteoarthritis. It's good for any kind of osteoarthritis and backs. So it did the same thing in a rabbit model using pentosin. They actually stopped disc degeneration and the drug's all been around since the 1980s as an oral medication. So safety profile is good and again we're using a microdose of what they have to use orally for bladder stuff. So we're microdosing it. It also, very interestingly, at a low dose orally. So we've also had it compounded as a very low dose orally, which doesn't work as well for osteoarthritis, but a low dose orally it's really good for the gut. So people who have gut issues, it helps the gut and it's a potent antiviral, anti-cancer and anti-athrosclerotic agent. So this is because, when you look, all these diseases have some overlap.
Stephen McCain:Yeah right, Exactly.
Dr Yurth:Inflammation, inflammatory diseases, yeah.
Stephen McCain:Fantastic. I remember I saw your presentation on this at the World Peptide Congress this year and I was enamored, because I've put a lot of mileage dynamic, dynamic mileage on my joints, and I have to take really good care of myself. Unfortunately, I have pretty minimal pain, but I just think this is like a perfect example of a repurposed drug doing something that is a huge need, right, and what was this thing you were saying, though, in your speech about it potentially causing blindness if you took it for so long at such a dose?
Dr Yurth:So the big thing. So Elmiron, which is the drug, last 2020, I guess, or 2019, they put a black box warning on the drug and a lot of lawsuits went on. Because after this again, this drug's been around a long time, right, but they started to see an incidence of people who had a retinopathy that was associated. It was very unique retinopathy. They'd never seen it before, but it was causing damage to the retina of the eye and, some people, some progressive loss of vision, and what they found was it was a dose dependent. That's why it took so long to actually see this, because you had to be on the drug at a high enough dose for a long enough period of time. And those people when they looked at their eyes. So then they brought in asymptomatic people, people who had no problems with their vision, but they looked at them and in a small number of people they did see these changes in the retina. They said, oh, big black box warning, big lawsuits went out on Elmiron and it got prescribed less and less orally because of that. Now, if you look at the true incidence of that number one, you have to get to a high enough cumulative dose over a lifetime. So remember we're using a micro dose. That dose is 500 milligrams done every day. We're using a micro dose of that. We're using a microgram of that or 25 milligrams, orally and not on an everyday basis. So for us to ever hit the cumulative doses that was ever seen to be associated with this retinopathy would take you taking this drug regularly for about 80 years of your life, and maybe I'll be on it for 80 years, I don't know. Hopefully then we'll have a treatment for retinopathy. But so it got kind of overblown, as things do here in the US.
Dr Yurth:Now xylosol if you look at the FDA or the whole printout on the pharmaceutical xylosol, the injectable form of Elmiron or Pentosyn, they left that off completely because we actually don't think it's going to be a risk factor done as the injectable. Now that may be a dose dependent thing and it may be a difference in how it's metabolized, but it doesn't appear that it's going to cause the same problems, at least not with the animal studies. They was not supported. So if you look at the package insert on xylosol it doesn't say that. And it is funny when you look at Elmiron even, which is widely used in other countries as well, they have no black box warning or no warning about the retinopathy.
Dr Yurth:So that may be a little bit of a thing here, because it's about 0.0001% of people that will develop this, but we our lawyers like that kind of stuff right, that's huge money when you get a group of enough people who have a disorder and you can make a whole lot of money off of it from a drug company. So I think we have to take that with a little bit of okay. Yes, keep a cautious eye, but not abandon this drug because of that Cautious eye?
Stephen McCain:no pun intended, and would there be a time where you'd want to go off of it, like you said, if you're shutting down some of these things that clean up, would you like, if you, it seems to be really regulatory, right?
Dr Yurth:So it's not going to shut them down completely. Okay, it's going to help modulate the currents of it, right? Okay, got it so. So you can use it more as a modulatory agent than you can really being a clear, it's going to shut everything down. It's probably just not potent enough to do that and you don't do it every day, so you're doing it on an intermittent basis. So you're doing it, you know, once or twice a week you're doing an injection, so we're probably not shutting it down continuously.
Dr Yurth:Now I do tell people when they, when they have surgery number one, it's a weak blood thinner, so I tell them stop it, for, you know, a few days before surgery, and I tell them to wait a few days till after surgery, pick, pick it back up, just for that very reason, just in case we want to, we want to sort of let that inflammation kind of come up a little bit more. Yeah, before, and so I do, I do utilize it that way. You know, I'll take people off for a few days around surgeries, things like that yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Stephen McCain:So that's available. Someone could literally come to you and say I'm suffering massively with arthritis, can you?
Dr Yurth:help me and and and. Honestly I will tell you it's been life-changing for people, really life-changing, okay.
Stephen McCain:Fantastic. Well, I mean, that's a real piece of gold right there, and I would love to dive a little further on it, but you have so many pearls of wisdom. I did want to talk about this 1-MNA that you-. Yeah, let's talk about one which is 1-methylnicotinic acid this 1-MNA.
Dr Yurth:Let's talk about one which is one methyl nicotinic acid and one MNA. So everybody now is very gigged out on NAD, right? You all have heard about NAD and I think there's very little argument to say that NAD does not decline when we age and that replacing or getting more NAD is probably good for us. I don't think anybody would doubt it, and I know you had James. What's his name? The big NMN?
Stephen McCain:guy.
Dr Yurth:Dr she. Yeah, yeah, I know, you know you had him on a podcast recently and he and I got into a big kind of argument at one of the conferences and it ended with he didn't want to hear what I had to say. So whatever, but you know, and and so who, who knows? Because this is a field where every, all of us are going to be a little bit married to some of our opinions. But I come from everything and this is my. You know you work with Bill Seeds, my Bill Seeds training, coming from everything, from a, looking at pathways, and what are we doing? Because you know, Bill Seeds is very big on this.
Dr Yurth:You know, you, you you have to keep things homeostatic and when we overdo, you take too many antioxidants, you do things. You're screwing up your cell, right. So now what are people doing? They're like oh, NAD is really important. We need a lot of NAD. As we age, we're going to have more energy. If we have more NAD, that's the ultimate electron donor. We make more ATP. We have more energy. We know it declines as we age, declines as we age. We know energy declines as we age. Let's just give everybody nad. So people are going in there doing these massive nad infusions or the precursors like nmn or nr, which are basically the same thing, in fact probably a little better, because really there's no evidence nad can even get into the cell. You have to use one of the precursors to get into the cell.
Dr Yurth:But the problem is, I tell people it's a little bit like why are our NAD levels declining? We actually don't make less NADs. That's been well proven in mice models that if you do like what's called a CD38 knockout mouse, where they don't have the enzyme to degrade NAD, they don't lose NAD. So it's not that we really make less, at least not substantially. To some degree maybe, yes, but what we do is we lose more. So what happens is we get upregulation of several enzymes. I think Nicole Conlin in her product, which I'm blanking on the name on, where she uses niacinamide and kind of a combination of blockers, is probably the best kind of so far that we've done with this. But basically the key is that if I give you a whole bunch of NAD and all you're doing is turning on the enzymes that are degrading it, what have I done? Have I really increased your NAD levels?
Dr Yurth:You've just charged those pathways right, right, so I always like to pick this. It's a big bucket right and your bucket has got a hole in it and it's leaking out all over the floor. So you're ruining your wood floor and you just keep. You're like, oh my God, my bucket is empty. I'm going to keep filling my bucket and your bucket stays nice and full, maybe as long as you keep enough of it going. But what's happening is your floor is now ruined.
Dr Yurth:So what happens when you give those NADs is you accelerate once you've gotten as much as you need, and we don't know what that is right, I don't know how much you need. Once you've got as much as you need, your body's pretty smart, so it's got to get rid of the excess. So it does so by a couple of enzymes, and one of the main ones is CD38. And so people have said, okay, well, let's block CD38. That's a great thing, and it does. It helps. So blocking CD38, you can use things like epigenin to block CD38. So you can block that drain a little bit there. But body's still pretty smart. And so now it's like okay, we still got too much.
Dr Yurth:You block CD38 and it goes down another pathway and there's an enzyme called NNMT, and NNMT is really upregulated in cells that are not so happy, like your cancer cells, your senescent cells, your fat cells. They have very high levels of NNMT. So now your body is. What your body's doing? Is it's sensing there's oh, there's a whole bunch of drain of NAD. It turns up NNMT and, interestingly, it does so to actually make another product called 1-MNA.
Dr Yurth:This is all really technically difficult. Sorry, make another product, 1-mna. So you're doing two things You're making 1-MNA, which is trying to sort of help you, and you're feeding all these cancer cells to nascent cells. So NNMT is being looked at very actively in the cancer world Because if you block NNMT you seem to be able to reduce cancer cell metastasis. So there's a lot of work going on in that realm. So now we're giving people NAD and NMN and NR, while the rest of the cancer world is trying to block the enzyme that you just accelerated by doing that Right. It's a little worrisome that the rest of the world who's in the traditional medicine cancer world is like ooh, block this enzyme. And we're doing things that are turning the enzyme up.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, cancer world is like. Ooh block this enzyme and we're doing things that are turning the enzyme up yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off. If you want to roll here, oh, go ahead. So you have. You have CD38 and NNMT, which are these two enzyme pathways that are stealing, and they each have their own sort of downstream effects. Usually, you would do apigenin to kind of tamper CD38 and you would use maybe 5-amino-1-MQ for NNMT, right? So does this 1-MNA help for both of those pathways or just the NNMT?
Dr Yurth:So basically, the feeling is that the CD38 is probably less important as a regulatory than as you get downstream to the NNMT. So 5-amino-1-MQ is great, because 5-amino does block NNMT and that's why it's so good for cancer and it's so good for producing more energy and helps with weight loss, right, the problem with if I block NNMT, I I will build up nad and I block the cancer cell growth. But nnmt makes one mna, and one mna is actually a really good thing. It actually in and of itself helps cardiac function, uh, helps lung function, helps energy and metabolism. So so now we've yes, we've blocked all the bad stuff, right, but we've also blocked one of the good things. So a company in Poland, very small company in Poland came up with a molecule, 1-mna, which is basically just a food source, right, 1-mna, 1-methyl nicotinic acid. And they said, oh, this, so when? 1-mna? So if you picture this pathway with NNMT going to 1-MNA or NMT going to cancer cells, right, if we give, once 1MNA gets filled up, it's going to turn off NNMT. It's like, oh, I've got enough 1MNA, I'm going to turn off NNMT. So now I've actually kept the good thing I need at 1MNA, because I'm giving it to you. I've blocked the bad thing because I've blocked NNMT right, and 1MNA is something I can take orally and so it's 5-amino, but orally on a regular basis. Keep that really nice adjusted. Keep this really active molecule, the 1-methylnicotinic acid, which actually has NAD-like properties, so in and of itself has really good properties. For that I've blocked cancer cell growth and I've got the best of both worlds and it's a heck of a lot less expensive than 5.01 MQ.
Dr Yurth:So the problem with this company which was making it in Poland is they were trying to get it to the US as a drug because it's really good for cardiac stuff, it's really good for obesity, it's really good for cancer. So they've been trying for the past few years to bring it to the US as a drug. So they were starting some trials on it for a drug and so they would not sell it to the US as a supplement. So when we came across 1MNA, we're like my God, it does exist, somebody makes it. But it was this little pharmaceutical company who would not sell it to us in the US. So we're like damn, can't get, it impossible to get.
Dr Yurth:And so we spent a few years flying to Poland and meeting with this company and finally kind of hit them at the right point where. And what we told them was listen, it's going to take you 15 years to ever get this thing through the FDA and then you're going to have to get physicians adopted to it, which might not be that easy to it, which might not be that easy. We'll help you get this here as a supplement, because we had some work with working with some other international companies to help people transport stuff, get things to the US. So we had some expertise in that realm Not me, but another company I work with and so they finally and I think we kind of, because we've been in these discussions for a while I think we finally kind of hit them at a point where probably they financially were getting like maybe we need to think about something else.
Dr Yurth:I don't know. We finally got them compelled by saying, okay, let's just keep this as a supplement. So it's taken two years. We finally have it to the US as a supplement. It should actually be available. If you guys go to just 1MNAcom, it should be available as a supplement. I'm. I don't know for sure, but I think the company says in within a week it's now, it's now, it's now.
Stephen McCain:Is there a way?
Dr Yurth:literally waiting to purchase it until I had this conversation with you because I I saw your talk and I and I was like yeah to to us and you know, and bill seeds he's actually, as usual, the first one to kind of turn me on to this but but it is sort of the answer to all this NAD, because we do need more NAD, but we need to do it in a safe fashion.
Dr Yurth:And all you guys who are doing NAD infusions and taking tons of NR and NMN and, like I said, that's why I got into a big argument, and his argument was I feel better, everything's better, it's obviously working, and I think the problem is that you will temporarily potentially feel better. You're also releasing a lot of some inflammatory proteins when these senescent cells get turned on, and sometimes that actually gives you a little bit of a rush. It's when people do an NAD infusion like, oh, I felt all this rush of energy. It's actually not necessarily a good thing. It's because you had this rush of inflammatory stuff that was released from the senescent cells, because you just fed a whole bunch of senescent cells exactly what they wanted to grow. So I think you have to be really aware and cautious and I think the problem is that we're doing a lot of things that we don't know enough about, and I think this is a place where we're doing harm.
Stephen McCain:And believe me.
Dr Yurth:I'm just as guilty. I was doing a lot of NMN and NR and recommending that stuff. I always did it with a CD38 blocker. So do you need the CD38 blocker? I don't know the clear answer to that. I take both. So I'm gonna take one MNA and a CD38 epigenin because I feel like, okay, that's probably my best way of keeping these stores really perfect On the upside. Cd38 doesn't form anything bad, right, although it's draining some of your NAD, it's not forming anything bad and I am getting the NAD up by the 1-MNA, so I may not need it. I don't know for sure.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, it might be nice to offer an escape route if it needs it right, that's exactly right.
Dr Yurth:Like is that maybe the escape valve that maybe you know? This is I. I do have too much you know in that, in that you know reaction, reaction phase. Maybe that's a nice little you know thing. Because where I get more concerned about is this downward pathway that's feeding the senescent cells, and cd38 doesn't appear to have that same downward spiral unless it goes down from cd38 down to nmt. So I kind of think that blocking that downstream will probably be good enough and maybe you're right, maybe the keeping the cd38 turned down or maybe doing it intermittently right like doing things intermittently yeah, yeah.
Stephen McCain:And do you know if you get the same muscle benefits of 1-MNA as you do with 5-amino-1-MP? Because you get this like stem cell activation of muscles.
Dr Yurth:It really should do exactly the same thing, in fact even better.
Stephen McCain:All right.
Dr Yurth:And if you look at the data, so there's a really good study on long COVID, improving endurance in long COVID with one MNA that came out last year that was very compelling. There's a really good study on cardiac output. But the long COVID study showed significant improvement in muscle strength, at least in the long COVID group. Now, in someone like you who's already optimized, will we see that? Not sure we'll see it as massively, but it should have the same benefits. You're doing the same thing, except, I think, better than the 5-amino is. That's fantastic.
Stephen McCain:Okay, so we go to 1mnacom. I was literally just there yesterday, I think. Right now you have to buy it, by the case. Well, I don't think so.
Dr Yurth:No, well, either way, it's available and I'm buying it because you go there I mean physicians so it will be so it's going to be. So there may be. You may have to go to a different site as an individual person. So because the 1MNA site may be for practitioners, I think that you may have to go to what's called OHPHealthcom. If you log in there, then I think you can. That's why I've been sending my patients to buy an individual supplement. The 1-MNA may be for the physician site. They are trying to keep it within more of a professional line, but you can, especially if you're under physician's care. So if you log in and you're under physician's care, usually you can buy it through the OHP health site.
Stephen McCain:Okay, Got it. Yeah, Well, and, and whatever I dig up, I'll put in the show notes for people that um.
Dr Yurth:I can, I can, I can hook you up to the people from that, from who can answer those questions too.
Stephen McCain:Okay, fantastic. Well, I, I, I am excited to cause you know.
Dr Yurth:I will tell you from my perspective. So you know, I basically brought back a suitcase of it from Poland when we went there, so I had a supply for a while and it definitely improved like energy levels, muscle strength, but definitely endurance for me, which is what I find with 5-Amino. I'm not sure it improves my muscle strength as much. It improves my glucose control and it improves my endurance, and that's what I found with 1-MNA. I didn't find I mean, did you find with 5-Amino that you improved muscle mass? So what?
Stephen McCain:I have found with it. I've always kind of recommended it to people, like when they first start a new strength building routine, they're getting it started, they're going to do some weights and I think it's a nice spark. Because I have noticed that sometimes when you start and you're really rusty and you feel like you have no activation in your muscles, you're like God, these things aren't even working. But I have found with 5-amino-1-MQ I just feel like I get a little bit more neural activation in some capacity and I've also noticed the fat burning effect or whatever it seems to have this muscle building and fat burning. It definitely has fat burning effects when you block.
Dr Yurth:NMT, this muscle building and fat burning. It definitely has fat burning effects. When you block five and when you block in an mt, you definitely get fat burning effects because you you're stabilizing metabolic control and you definitely any of you guys who have more of a you know insulin issues at all, uh or or are on the heavier side it's it is it can be definitely helpful for weight loss because it's normalizing metabolic control so well. Yeah.
Stephen McCain:And it is expensive. So this one M&A is yeah 5-amino is outrageously pricey.
Dr Yurth:Yeah, it is really. I mean, probably less so from research chemical sites, but from our compounding pharmacies. Not cheap?
Stephen McCain:Yeah, well, I mean this is so yeah, we're super excited about this honestly.
Dr Yurth:I mean, it's been a long time coming and I think that it is like 5-minute, like more of an exercise memetic, so it does kind of act like you're exercising for you. They showed in the long COVID people dramatic improvement in like their six-minute walk test. Their quad strength improved dramatically. And I know a lot of people some people are not even aware of it how much COVID, or sometimes COVID vaccine, has done in terms of their quality of life, in terms of endurance and strength. A lot of people have gotten hit by that. My practice is now full of long COVID people.
Stephen McCain:I mean that's been a bad problem, yeah, and I've seen people complaining that we're really optimal individuals, like at first. I kind of thought it would maybe just be for, like, the metabolically challenged or people that were really out of shape.
Dr Yurth:No, these are really healthy people.
Stephen McCain:Yeah.
Dr Yurth:I've had some really high level athletes who have just been down and out since COVID, really high level athletes who have just been down and out, you know, since COVID. This mitochondrial dysfunction that COVID causes is, you know, the hair loss. The hair loss clients have gone rampant now because of hair loss post-COVID. It's all some. You know a mitochondrial loss. You know it's a lot of you know, ongoing damage.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, it's not funny, you can end up chasing your tail for a whole year, and so I really think that's when you got to find someone like yourself that really knows these pathways.
Stephen McCain:And I mean, you just dropped two golden nuggets of this pentasin polysulfate, this one MNA, and you talk about how everyone was doing these.
Stephen McCain:You know, it started with these massive NAD infusions and it got into the precursors because of David Sinclair, and then now there's like the third phase and it. You know, in the beginning I came into this thing as a I guess you would call it a biohacker. And now, as I've sort of matriculated and I've tried my best to do as much as I can to learn these pathways or listen to people that know these pathways, but I just find that you, as you matriculate, you go up, you start getting up into the functional medicine and all the protocols that all the doctors like you are doing, because that's really where you want to play at. Those are the people that you really want to learn from, because you talk about these cellular pathways and I'd like for you just to take a moment to explain that. So maybe if someone doesn't understand cellular health, because if you optimize a cell, you optimize the body, right. So maybe if you could just kind of explain why this is so important right now.
Dr Yurth:To look at the stuff this way yeah, I think that's really important because so we call ourselves cellular medicine providers. So at Seed Scientific Research and Performance, which I'm on faculty with, so disclaimer yes, I'm going to be very pro this type of medicine because I truly believe in it, but where it lies, different even from what sort of our functional medicine. So if you think about traditional medicine, it's a disease focused, right, it's okay, you have this disease. These are our protocols we do to treat this disease. Right, you have this disease. These are our protocols we do to treat this disease. Right, you have diabetes. This is the protocol. You have, you know, heart disease. This is the protocol. So everything's very protocol driven.
Dr Yurth:And then we went. People went oh, that's not the way we should be. Let's go to functional medicine, right, let's look more deeper, what is causing that person to have diabetes? And let's treat more functionally, right, where did things go awry? But if you've looked at, you know and this is the hardest thing I think in training physicians or training my clients is that when you go, you know a little deeper than that. What everybody still wants is protocols. Okay, so now you have diabetes, here's your protocol, you're going to take berberine and you're going to exercise this and you're like, well, guess, if that didn't work for me, why didn't that work for me, right? So protocol-driven medicine, which, unfortunately, is what doctors like, because it's really nice to have a cookbook. Well, okay, now I have this. So they've got metabolic dysfunction. Here's my protocols and there's a lot of and it's one of the things like A4M teaches a lot of protocols and people like protocols. I get it, it's easy.
Dr Yurth:The problem is protocols don't always work and so what you have to go back down to is at the cellular level, what pathway serves you down that road? And that's where you have to relearn biochemistry, and nobody wants to relearn biochemistry. We all hated biochemistry the first time, right? Somebody told me actually the Krebs cycle was important. I was like, oh God. And now I literally spend all day long trying to learn new pathways, because every year we discover new pathways. So I can actually look at a disease and say, okay, this weird pathway, something called like the sea gas sting pathway, these weird ass pathways are what actually are starting this process of you going down this road. So now I have to actually go back to where in this pathway that's gone awry in you do I need to intervene?
Dr Yurth:So it's really looking at these pathway driven inside the cell, these pathway driven responses that are causing the underlying metabolic dysfunction which caused the diabetes you know, and diving down that level. And there's not protocols to treat that because everybody's going to be a little bit different. But I can say, okay, wow, all these things are going on. I know it must be a dysfunction at. You know, cytochrome two in my, you know, in my mitochondria. So you have to get down to that kind of level to really treat some of these more complex things and I'll say, not even complex, but some of the simple things.
Dr Yurth:And it's not easy and it's not protocol driven and it takes tons and tons of time and research and education to do so. It's not for everybody but ultimately it's going to be what makes us be able to heal hard, to heal people or really truly prevent disease. Because if I keep all my cell pathways going the right direction, if everything's working right, then I won't develop this or this or this. But it's so incredibly complex, stephen, and I will tell you, like I said, some of these pathways, like the C-gas sting pathway, which honestly, if you look at it, it's rooted in a whole bunch of different diseases, and yet it was discovered in 2019. I mean, so you can't hang your hat on the things you learned in medical school 30 years ago, because every year we're discovering some new pathway, some new mechanism and you have to keep up on it. So it takes tons of reading, it takes tons of time, but it's so much fun Because then I can look at okay, this person is exhibiting all these things.
Dr Yurth:It must be a defect here in this pathway. Now, what can I use, Be it a peptide, be it a repurposed drug, be it a supplement, be it a change in their exercise routine, that will actually alter that specific pathway and cure a whole host of dysfunction down that road, right? So it's super fun to do, but you know, but you'll go down these rabbit holes of researching things for you know, eight hours at night, because you're like oh, my god, where can I make a change here and how do I change this? And sometimes it's super simple things right, like a baby aspirin and how much you can do with a baby aspirin a day.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, I mean it's fascinating. I've been at the World Pet Pet Congress for a couple of years now. I sat there and I mean I got to speak at it this year, but before I was in the back, just wide eyed and just Jesus, these, these, these people are you're speaking a different language.
Dr Yurth:I call it. Do you speak cell?
Stephen McCain:That's usually what I tell doctors. You know I'm good friends with, you know, sandra Kaufman, yeah, so you know she speaks cell and every time she explains something she's speaking to. So, like for me, I'm always striving, striving to, to, to learn as much as I can about these pathways, and because I understand that the people that understand the pathways are the people that probably understand some issue, the best, at least the best snapshot we have right now. We can't look quantumly at the issue yet, but we can look at it.
Dr Yurth:AI is going to make this even better and better. Right, when we can actually now feed a load and say, okay, this is in that pathway where you need to intervene, and then I can say, okay, give me a list of the drugs that might potentially do that and be able to pull more of those People. Always I hear this from all my patients right, oh, I don't want a pharmaceutical. Pharmaceuticals are not evil. I mean, there, there's a lot you could do with pharmaceutical drugs. Yeah, you know that that is great. And and people, you know people are willing to take a list this long of supplements because they think they're safer, and I'm like, actually, I probably have one pharmaceutical drug that may actually address all those pathways that you just are trying to treat with your 15 different supplements.
Stephen McCain:So a lot of it's like repurposing drugs.
Dr Yurth:I, you know, I love that because a lot of these drugs have been around. They are safe, they are good, you know and and you know so. For instance, there's a drug we use a lot called Amlexanox, and Amlexinox is. It was approved for aphthous ulcers, for canker sores, as a topical. So it's called Apsol and it was approved for canker sores, and then the little company that made it really didn't go very far with it, so it sort of got abandoned. But what it does, the pathways it works on and if you look at it you know there's a great article on is this the, you know, is this sort of the cure-all for everything? Because if you look at the pathways it works on, it's incredible the number of diseases, from autoimmune to cancer, to hypertension, to obesity, that you can treat with this drug. Now, because it's available, the compound's available. Amlexox is available in the US, so we have a compounding pharmacist make it into a tablet for us and people can only take it and I will tell you it can be remarkably life-changing for people from autoimmune diseases, things like that.
Dr Yurth:It is, frankly, a remarkable drug. It's another repurposed medication, but when you know, wow, this pathway is really important. Here's a drug that actually addressed that pathway, used for a completely different purpose. I can now pull that in and do a whole lot of things. So when you understand these pathways, now I can search for things. I can say, okay, I need this pathway altered at this spot, give me the drugs that do it. And technology has allowed us now to really be able to come up with a list where I can feed that into chat, gpt, and it's going to say, okay, these are the drugs that have been discovered that work there and you know, now I can play with that. So so don't close your mind to all the things that really medicine has and is available if we use them in the right way yeah, yeah, I remember for like years ago I kind of went through this phase.
Stephen McCain:I was like oh no, I don't do any, I'm not gonna take a drug and then you know, hey, I take, you know, five milligrams of sialis every day because it improves my blood open your blood vessels reduces your risk of dementia.
Dr Yurth:Helps prevent stroke right. Yeah, it's not for your erections. It's because, you know, I put almost all my patients, women and men, on five milligrams of Cialis because, if you look, dementia risk is reduced, hypertension risk is reduced, cardiovascular disease is reduced, all by taking five milligrams of this simple drug. Exercise performance is. You know, as we do this, why it's banned as a water band drug right? Because it actually has significant benefits on exercise performance. So those are exactly. You know your patients are like what. I take five milligrams of salis every day.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, I mean, I consider that to be an operating system upgrade because you improve blood flow to-.
Dr Yurth:Right. Improve blood flow right.
Stephen McCain:Every organ, everything gets an upgrade, Exactly Every organ, everything and your brain being a big one, right, yeah, so I've completely opened my mind up to this stuff, and the beauty about this off-label usage is the fact that it's already gone through all the rigors.
Dr Yurth:It's already gone through the testing.
Stephen McCain:Yeah.
Dr Yurth:Right, exactly, it's like you've already got the safety data there.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, more so than a lot of supplements do right, oh, do Right, oh yeah, well, jesus, yeah, the supplements that can. That's like a wild, wild West, you know, I mean right, yeah, I mean this is fascinating. We're 46 minutes into it and I'm like, oh God, we haven't even gotten into like peptides for crying out loud. But I mean, look, I it's. Let me ask you this what are your thoughts on hormones? Cause, a lot of these people, that that cell, these doctors, they're like well, if you optimize the cell, you don't need hormones. And I'm like, really like, on all cases, you know, like you know, yeah, I, I will tell you I I don't agree with that.
Dr Yurth:I mean, we know that our hormones decline. If I optimize the cell, can can I keep my hormone levels up to where they were when I was 20? I will challenge that. And I know you and I are very fond of Bill Seeds and he very much speaks that you don't need to do these things, you can do everything by cell optimization. I don't see it. I think that we were just talking about that recently because he said nobody needs thyroid medication. I'm like there are people who need thyroid medication, you know, you know.
Dr Yurth:So my belief is that you need to try and keep the body in a state. You know, even when our cells were working great we're 18 years old, right, and everything generally was working well Our hormones start to decline. Our hormones start to decline early, right. Our hormones start to decline in our early 20s I mean 25, you start dropping your hormones down by 30, you're on the downward slope, and that's not just cell health, it's just what happens in terms of some of our organ decline. Can we maintain that better with doing some things? Yes, we can lengthen it out. Can we get them back to where they were? I don't think so. So I'm a little bit of the belief I'm going to replace everything that I definitely am losing right and that's going to help my cell function better. So I'm going to go on the reverse, that I can improve cellular function and cellular pathways if my hormones are there. Maybe I can reduce the dose of the hormones as the cell functions better.
Dr Yurth:But you know, peptides in our body decline as we age. We know that, that bpc, which is an, you know, endogenous peptide that our gut makes that those levels decline as we age. Even if I keep myself self-healthy, those levels declines we age. So our thymic peptides? We don't have thymus glands. There's nothing that maintaining your cell health is going to do to give you back a thymus gland. It's not. Your thymus gland is at its biggest at puberty and then it starts shrinking down and you know, by your time in my age it's a little fatty nub that's not making thymic peptides anymore. So I'm not getting thymus and beta-4 which helps with me with growth and recovery, or thymus and alpha-1 which helps my immune system, you know, and improving the cells not going to also make my thymus gland regenerate or my pineal gland not calcify. We can help it, but those things. So, yeah, so my feeling is, you know, your, your pineal gland calcifies.
Dr Yurth:You need to give epitalin. Your, my, your, your. Your thymus gland is going away. You need to give thymic peptides or thymic bioregulators. You know, periodically, to keep that function that you don't have anymore. Because you don't have it, your ovaries are not going to work as well. Do I think you need hormones? Your testicles are not going to work as well. Yes, I think men, most men, are going to benefit from testosterone and estrogen and progesterone and, and you know, and I, you know, and and I I'm gonna have to say I think that's what's going to help keep my cellular mechanisms going as a turn, as opposed to vice versa I, I, I couldn't agree with you more.
Stephen McCain:and, granted, I'm, I'm not some doctor or whatever, but I've paid attention and and I've I've paid attention through the point where I'm about to turn 50 and and I've. You know there's these cycles of being alive, that these things start to shut down, or you know, you become resistant to anabolic signaling. You don't fold proteins as well you, you don't make as much stuff. I mean it all starts to cascade into something. And you know, my opinion is you know, I look at hormones as a communication system. I'm like, do you remember what it was like to be on dial-up? I don't want to be on dial-up, I want to be on broadband, like I want you know when the? I want the muscles to get the signal hey, let's grow, it's time. I just worked out like, let's do this, you know. And but I, I see a lot of that and it's refreshing to hear your opinion that kind of feels like intuitively, like where I'm at. You know that you have to just start propping the body up as it ages with all the things.
Dr Yurth:Again, it's the replace what you're losing bit, right, I'm going to replace those things that I'm I'm losing with time and and that I mean you know, can you keep growth hormone levels up? I mean, even you know, if seeds is in that he fixes the cell and everything gets better, then why do you need growth hormone secretogogs? Right, but people need growth hormone secretogogs, or you know, to keep growth hormone levels up. I I think that hormone levels are going to decline even in the face itself. And again, I think that if you look at a lot of cellular mechanisms like mitochondria, they function better with estrogen. So you need some estrogen for mitochondrial function to be better. So I think that there's a piece there of I don't think you're going to independently fix the cell and all of those hormones pick back up. I just don't think that's the way our bodies are designed.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, yeah, but who knows, maybe we'll learn more in a few years.
Dr Yurth:Yeah, Maybe this is the NAD precursor phase. That's right. We just keep learning and changing our protocols as time goes on.
Stephen McCain:But now.
Dr Yurth:I'm using hormones.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, I've used HCG for a monotherapy, for because I was trying to maintain my fertility and I started to see I had this guy on the podcast. It hasn't been released yet. This guy, uh, zach, and and he was, basically he can he's been turning menopausal women back and making them fertile by putting stem cells in their, their ovaries and yeah and he has some shows. Gave me some science that shows that the longer you can maintain your fertility, the longer that's the health factor.
Dr Yurth:That's exactly right. Yeah, there's a lot of research going in that realm. That that's you know, and that's like rapamycin showed that too right that that women, that that at least in animal studies, that rapamycin maintained fertility at least started early enough, that it made fertility much longer, at least in mice what is your opinion on rapamycin?
Stephen McCain:because I have it and I'm a, I'm like, I read a book on it and I've you know, I was just about to do it and I had this little pink eye thing or whatever I'm like. Well, I'm not going to shut down my immune system for a day to do this, but what is your opinion on it?
Dr Yurth:So you know, most of the research on rapamycin has come from Mikhail Blagosklany, who is very well-researched in this area, and he has some really good articles out there to really show that this is not an immune suppressing agent unless you dose it at an immunosuppressive dose. So if we're using it for cancer or we're using it to keep you from rejecting your transplanted kidney and you have to use it at immunosuppressive doses but at a low dose, it is an immune modulating agent and I think the data is pretty damn compelling that it is one of the few longevity agents that we've. We have some pretty good evidence to support right, at least in every other animal model. Yeah, unfortunately, like matt caberlin's you see this today, matt caberlin's, who was doing a big, huge study on rapamyamycin in dogs, the dog aging project and so everybody had their dog on rapamycin and it's been really a compelling project and doing very well and the FDA for some reason just shut it down, who knows why. Really, their infinite wisdom.
Stephen McCain:Interesting. That must mean it works. That must mean it works.
Dr Yurth:But yeah, I mean, I think the data is pretty convincing. I think what we don't know is what the proper dose is for us as humans. Yeah, so most you know, most of the longevity docs I know are taking five, six milligrams once a week. But there's people who are doing it higher. There's people who are doing it, you know, one week out every month. Nobody really knows the answer to how we're dosing. The five to six milligrams is based more on sort of our animal or mouse studies. Do we need more? We just don't know. So I think at this point most longevity docs have kind of jumped on board with rapamycin.
Dr Yurth:I take it, you know. I take it once a week. I think that it makes sense when you look at sort of, I want to just shut off mTOR periodically. I want to have a sort of cleanup. I think that the evidence is pretty convincing, I think. Are we dosing it enough to do anything? I don't know the answer to it. Blagosklany thinks not. He thinks here in the US we're probably not dosing it high enough. He doses it much higher in himself. So I don't know the answer to that. So I'm probably playing it on the conservative side and we'll have to see. You know it's just going to take a lot of time and research to figure it out At this point. By what data we have. It looks good and I think it's very safe. I think it's not immunosuppressive, I you know. I I don't ever get sick. I take rapamycin, I you know. I think that it has good immune modulating properties. You will see it bump up cholesterol. That's probably the biggest negative.
Stephen McCain:Oh, really it does.
Dr Yurth:So you will see a bump up in cholesterol in some people. It's usually not the ApoB that gets bumped up, it's usually just the total cholesterol. So usually ApoB which is the bad player. Remember all of you guys who are testing cholesterol don't look at your cholesterol, look at your ApoB. I don't care if your cholesterol. Look at your ApoB. I don't care if your cholesterol is 300, you want your ApoB low. And so you know, look at your apolipoprotein B. That's the number you need to focus on and keep that low. Keep that at least below 90, you know, but even lower, probably better. There's data now that shows that there's no too low level. That's good, no-transcript.
Stephen McCain:So sometimes you know you will see that people yeah, well, I think if anybody's learned anything from this and they, if someone, whoever's listening this, probably already kind of knows what I'm about to say, but in listening to you, and that there are these doctors that understand this cellular pathways, you know, god, I, if anybody's listening to this podcast and they're still in the traditional medical system, let this be your notice right now that like, hey, there is a much better way to do things. And, and you know there's just, I mean you're and it's your life for crying out loud. I think that's the hardest thing, I mean, you know they're just I mean you know, and it's your life for crying out loud, right, I think that's the hardest thing.
Dr Yurth:I mean, you know you and I spent a lot of money on this stuff, right? People, you know, I know you've talked to Brian Johnson and you guys have interacted and you know, and people are like, oh, we spend two million a year. How stupid is that? I'm like I have patients who spend two million a year on their stupid horses. I mean, you know, it's like to me, it's like I, you know, I have patients all the time who they come in and see me, who have plenty of money, believe me, and I recommend these protocols that are not inexpensive, You're right, and they drive out in their Lexus, you know, to get their $9 Starbucks coffees and, and I think we've got to learn to prioritize that this money spent on health is the most important place to put your money. I mean, it's probably where most of my ancillary income goes. Unfortunately, probably, I have no social life or anything. I just take a lot of supplements and peptides, you're the same person.
Stephen McCain:I mean, we're all cut from the same cloth. Who needs friends?
Dr Yurth:I've got peptides. I think that is a place where people are still in this paradigm of well. Insurance doesn't cover that and it's a lot of money. And you know, and I think if once you're sick I mean I've had cancer patients, stage four cancer Now they're willing to put in whatever amount of money it takes to stay alive Right, but what we need to do is put in whatever money it takes to stay healthy. You know, within our means, obviously, whatever money it takes to stay healthy, starting before we get sick, which is a hard thing to convince people of.
Stephen McCain:And look, most people are on the financial investment track that they believe in compounded interest. Right, that they're going to put so much money away every month and over time they're going to benefit from the compounding interest. Well, my opinion is okay. You spend a little bit of money up front on all this pay-as-you-go stuff to be and it's not a ton as you're when you're 20, as you get older it will get more, but if you can get 10 more usable productive, years, Healthy years, where you feel good and active and you know that that is going to add to the compounding interest of time.
Stephen McCain:So you can make it up on the back end, but also, at the same time, I don't ever really want to retire. I always want to be doing what I'm doing and if I can be totally, that's why everyone's talking about health span. You know, like if I can just be like full faculties till I'm, till the day I, you know, yeah.
Dr Yurth:We want to just do this and then die Right.
Stephen McCain:Yeah.
Dr Yurth:This is what most of us do, right. Yeah, at the end, the last 10 years, and any of you have gone through I've gone through aging parents, my parents lived into their nineties but it was not know, not easy, right for anybody, and that's what we really want to avoid.
Stephen McCain:we want to go like this and then boom, fall off a cliff, right yeah yeah, exactly, I mean, and it's funny because you look at, like suzanne summers who died people were like what, what happened? You know what happened and I kind of thought about that.
Dr Yurth:I was like huh hellspan, she just you know it was like, yeah, I mean she was doing pretty, I mean she was really good for you know, really, until her cancer came back. And you know, she, I think her last really month wasn't good, or even a few weeks, honestly, but she was doing podcasts right up until, like, it was a little shock to me. I was like, oh my god, she died. I just saw her podcast to me.
Stephen McCain:I was like there's a perfect you know, sort of I'm not perfect, I mean, but there's a. There's sort of like at least a, a semblance of this health. Yeah she looks good.
Dr Yurth:She felt good. She was having sex, she was, you know, exercising, she was doing podcasts, she was interacting with her family yeah, you know, you know, unfortunately cancer got her and maybe that could have been dealt with in a different way but you know but you know that you're right that she was.
Dr Yurth:She was really an epitome. It's funny, when I first at A4M, she was a guest speaker I don't know a few years ago, it was a while ago, maybe three, four years ago and I was like, oh my God, suzanne Somers, suzanne Somers is a guest speaker. She was really compelling. Right, I don't agree with everything she does, but she was very compelling as a speaker of. You know exactly that that she is. You know, and her husband. You know exactly that that she is. You know and her husband. You know, alan is like like I don't know, 89 years old and the guy you know, they're still talking about having sex and running around naked, and you know, you know, and all the stuff that we all want to be doing when we're 90 years old, yeah, and wheelchairs being pushed around our nursing homes I went and saw two years ago.
Stephen McCain:I saw the rolling stones here in vegas and mick jagger was 78 at the time and I we me and my friend were joking before they came out that they were going to be wheeled out. They were going to be propped up on all this stuff and be super geriatric and the whole time at dinner we're joking making making as many jokes about that as it was a running joke and I know human bodies Well. I can watch when someone moves. I can tell if they have hip pain, ankle, bad knees. I've studied people moving for years. When you just coach and do gymnastics, nothing Besides his face, which clearly has aged, I couldn't see anything.
Stephen McCain:That was any different than when he was in the club Jumping around I know Metabolically super fit and his movements, he had other mood. I was, I literally I cried. My friend was taking social media things and posting all time and I'm sitting there with tears in my eyes because I'm like this is so inspiring, because, right that people can do that right yeah, because like for me, he didn't even take care of himself.
Stephen McCain:So yeah, I mean those guys were, I I remember, doing blood transfusions because they were doing so many drugs between concerts, like back in the day. I mean, Jesus, Well, look, we've covered some good stuff you are seeing that's kind of coming, or is there anything you've come across that maybe you haven't necessarily we haven't spoken about or you haven't made a lecture about, or maybe it's you know like? I mean, there's some interesting things out there and I'm always curious what, what people maybe are kind of dabbling in that that no one knows about.
Dr Yurth:Yeah, I think that, um, you know the big, the big place, the big place, like you and I were both at A4M this year and I kind of went through and I always go through, you know if I can find one kind of new cool thing, and you know, and there wasn't anything huge there. But there's some cool work going on with some of the immune antibody stuff and I think that that might be a player like. So this is something called Glectin-3, and Galectin-3 is elevating a lot of bad diseases, but particularly in Alzheimer's, and Galectin-3 may be more the etiology of Alzheimer's. We keep blaming amyloid probably not amyloid, it's probably this Galectin-3. And so this company is making this antibody to Galectin-3. And we're actually signed up as a research are antibodies to these molecules that we're making and doing too much of and start binding out some of these bad things and treat diseases. So I think some of the focus we're going to start seeing a little bit is going to be on some of these immune modulating things, using antibody therapies to actually, you know, for cancers and things like that. I think that that's probably where this focus is. I mean the results.
Dr Yurth:Steve, you should have seen some of these videos of these Alzheimer's patients with just like one or two infusions of this antibody to bind the scolactin-3. They went from like one guy they interviewed. He didn't even know his daughter's name sitting next to him. Two months later they interview him. He's like yeah, he's talking like a normal person. He's like I'm actually driving a little bit, driving short distances to the store.
Dr Yurth:It was remarkable. Wow, they had case after case like this. Nothing have I ever seen that had those kind of results. And I think, as we start looking at things like that, well, where else can we start using that same technology? As time goes on, the biggest thing is so many of these things are so pricey, so expensive. That makes it hard. But I think that's something we're going to start seeing is, where can we start using some of these antibodies against bad things? So we can do things like looking at metabolomics and looking at abnormal proteins that are being expressed and now saying, okay, this person is doing this very, their body is doing this very poorly, and now I can form an antibody that stops that from having any kind of bad effects and then work upstream to try and fix why the bad effect occurred. So, anyway, I'm starting to see a lot more of this immunotherapies and treating all sorts of diseases cancers, alzheimer's, probably obesity.
Stephen McCain:And that will be a cool place to keep an eye on. Yeah, probably obesity, and that'll be a cool place to keep an eye on.
Dr Yurth:yeah, it's almost like a alternative instead of gene therapy doing it at the source.
Stephen McCain:You're basically just doing it at the uh the metabolite like the right a little further down the road.
Dr Yurth:And I think gene therapies. I mean you know I you know, if I could afford false statin gene therapy, I think that's pretty cool, right you know, do that? Would you do the false statin? You know, I don't know if I would do it just yet, but I mean I heard Liz Parrish speak at Radfest. I mean she did it years ago, right, cause Liz is on the lineage of all that stuff, but but you know, it's, it's pretty compelling. I mean, you know, I guess the scary thing is, are you doing other things that we're just not quite aware of yet? Yeah, you know, but you look at, like you look at the results of some of these people.
Dr Yurth:It's pretty impressive yeah, but you know, right now it's 25 000 and it lasts about a year and a half and then you got to do it again and again. I just am not 100 certain that there's not things we're doing when we're screwing up at that gene level. Are we doing anything that we just don't have quite a handle on?
Stephen McCain:I just don't know yet. Yeah, I'm a little uh, you know, like the. There's the telomerase one liz paris does I'm right, yeah, right yeah my first podcast guest, paul tozer.
Stephen McCain:Like a friend of mine, he did false statin, the, the telomerase and and he's done all around. Yeah, I was like jesus. You know that, doesn't let you feel great. I mean, yeah, he's, he's a. He was a hard charging guy, worked in, uh like, video game development. So he, he basically tested his. He basically said his telomeres were like gone and so a little bit of an emergence, you know right, and he's shown whether or not these look. That also brings into question like are these?
Dr Yurth:are these tests right? How good are these tests right? Yeah, we could talk all day about that one too.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, because they're.
Stephen McCain:They're measuring the average and it's really about which ones are the shortest you have these modalities that people are doing, like the phallostatin and the plasma exchange, and they, you know the plasma change. Yeah, you know, and and I, I'm a big, I like exosomes. I mean, maybe that's last thing, if we could have one little final, you know, get your opinion on exosomes, because I know you guys had exosomes at World Pet Pet Congress as one of the booths and stuff. So you guys always recommend the vendors that are there. What are your opinions on? What is your opinion on exosomes?
Dr Yurth:So we look at you know, we I think nobody would deny that stem cell therapy has significant benefits to our health and I saw you had, you know I can't remember his name but the stem regem guy you know, he and I had this big talk about stem cells a little bit. Yeah, it was brilliant and you know, and I love his product and it certainly has some good outcomes. But you know, one of the things I said to don't age, I said there's some data to support that. Actually it's not true. Some of the Chinese data that's coming out shows that stem cells, asian stem cells Uh-oh, are you there? There I am. You disappeared for a minute. Okay, asian stem cells actually did have senescent phenotypes and that they actually do some damage down the road. You and I had a discussion about that.
Dr Yurth:I don't know if we figured it out, but if you think about probably the best stem cell sources, it still is probably taking young stem cells, so taking umbilical stem cells. The problem is umbilical stem cells contain data you probably don't always want, right? They contain information, even DNA information, that you probably don't want. So what exosomes are is they're little nanoparticles contained inside stem cells that contain all the micro RNAs and growth factors to regenerate right. So if I can take, instead of stem cells, I can take all the guts of the stem cells that have the really good things that I want the mRNAs, the growth factors that are going to use my own system to design a new skin or new hair or whatever. In my mind, that's the safest and best way of regenerating tissue right Is to use umbilical stem cell derived exosomes. And now I can also take, let's say, if I can fit, you know, a hundred, obviously a very small number, but a hundred stem cells and each of those contains a thousand exosomes.
Dr Yurth:What if I take, you know now, a whole lot more exosomes again, 15 trillion exosomes, as opposed to maybe not that kind of volume if I'm giving stem cells, so you know. So I think that you can get better volume. I think you can get better outcomes. I think the data is certainly trending towards. Some of the new data that's coming out on exosomes is showing some really amazing things in terms of regenerating, even in the face of spinal cord injuries, things like that. I think we have a ways to go on understanding everything about it, but in my mind, everything I know, and even in my results in my own clinic. I still think they have the most regenerative potential. I do think you want good sources. I don't know if we know enough to say, okay, this is the perfect place to use them, but the data is awfully compelling and I think that that that you know. My belief is they probably have the most regenerative potential of anything that we have in our armatarium.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, I, I I'm leaning in that and I've been experimenting with them.
Stephen McCain:this year was like the year of exosomes for me and tried to amniotic and placental and and I've used the placental derived ones uh for pretty consistently this year and I'm a huge advocate of it even doing it at a lower pulse but more kind of frequently to kind of right you know. But uh, it's always refreshing to get your opinion on it because it it just keeps what you're saying is echoing exactly how I think about it. Man, we covered some good stuff on this one.
Stephen McCain:We covered some good stuff. I feel like we did it justice having you on. It is always a delight to just have a few moments with you, and this was I got to indulge. So, yeah, I would love to offline. I would love to talk to you about the pentosin polysulfate, maybe coming on as one of your guys' clients or something like that, because I just feel like that's something.
Dr Yurth:Yeah for you, probably with all the stuff, and you know, if you had knee scopes I would tell you probably not a bad thing to actually maybe do at least a course of now and then.
Stephen McCain:Yeah, yeah. I would love to work with you on that and I really appreciate it. How can people find what's the best way for them to find you? Reach out to you if they want to work with you.
Dr Yurth:BoulderLongevitycom is our clinic. We see patients from all over the world licensed in most of the States in the US about 46. And we see people all over the world, mostly virtual people, who want to come here for procedures, orthopedic procedures and things. Obviously they have to fly here for doing those things, for doing more regenerative procedures, but otherwise we just work virtually with most of our clients. So borderloggevitycom you can just sort of fill in and want more information piece there and somebody will contact you or you can set up an appointment online.
Dr Yurth:Those of you guys who want to learn more you know I love, like steven, doing all this education on this stuff. So we've actually tried to set this thing called human optimization academy. So if you go to bliacademy you can sign up there we actually have some free content and then there's some, if you can join the academy, really cool stuff. So we put together courses there to try and teach people. How do you read your own labs? How do you understand? You know the stuff your doctor doesn't tell you. How do you understand? And we try and teach from a what doctors should be learning. Not, you know not and they don't. So we're trying to teach you that way as opposed to trying to get all your information from your instagram. Influencers, we have to remember, are sometimes trying to sell you things, and so we're trying to keep it. You know, it's all. You know. Nothing that we do is to promote a product. It's all all really just educational. We also do these really fun Q&As. They're kind of like this People ask really cool questions and we just rap about it. So those are really fun every month. So if you go to bliacademy, you can look at the academy and we love that and it's growing the content on that.
Dr Yurth:Again, there's courses on how do you fix things first where you go, how do I look at my CBC and know whether it's abnormal or not, or my cardiac panel or my hormones? So we help you learn how to read your own labs, because you guys can't rely as Stephen said, you just can't rely on your traditional doctor to do this stuff. You just can't. You're going to have to become your own health advocate. So we're trying to help you to do that, Because even good functional medicine doctors aren't all that easy to find, honestly. So you at least be your own advocate, find a doctor who you can work with and talk to. You know, when you become a smartest, even then you, just you know, you kind of dictate your own care a little bit, but you want to find a doctor who can help you along that road. When you want a prescription, they can. They can say, okay, that's a good idea, All right.
Stephen McCain:Don't. So that's what you want to find is somebody who just works as a team with you, dot com or bliacademy, and and you should be able to get everything you need. Yes, and I will put links to all of that in the show notes. You can find those at stephenmccaincom backslash earth y-u-r-t-h. Anyone who's listening to this, I hope you. You see that there's a caliber of doctor out there that is on the cutting edge and when it comes to your health, I mean that there's a caliber of doctor out there that is on the cutting edge and when it comes to your health, I mean that's where we want to be. That's why I started this podcast for Cry Out Loud. Thank you so much for coming and thank you everyone for listening.
Dr Yurth:Thank you, I appreciate the time and I always appreciate talking to you. Thanks for listening.
Stephen McCain:We'll see you on the next episode of the Steve McCain Podcast. Stay healthy, cheers.