Bust and Beyond
Failure is a part of life and business, and I experienced the failure of a business in 2015 that my father had started in 1969. The effect it had on me emotionally was huge, yet the outside world knew nothing. I kept it to myself. I learnt so much from that failure, and it made me determined to support other business owners in the construction industry to avoid failure and flourish.
As I started to speak to business owners about failure, I learnt just how many had suffered from mental health issues and harmful thoughts. This drove me to start my podcast to educate and let people know how to avoid failure and know if they are going through failure, they are not alone, but more importantly, there is life and success after the failure of your business.
Bust and Beyond
E38 Breaking Free from Failure
What happens when tragedy becomes the catalyst for transformation? Life coach Carla Smith's world changed forever when she lost both parents within five weeks of each other in 2023. Rather than letting grief consume her, she used this profound loss as the spark to finally pursue her true passion - helping others through coaching.
The conversation with host Robin Hayhurst takes us on Carla's remarkable journey from corporate finance to manufacturing leadership, where she discovered her natural talent for developing people. "I saw the gap where we hire people for certain roles and expect them to be leaders, but they've never been a leader in their life," Carla explains, revealing how this observation led her to begin coaching executives long before making it her profession.
We dive deep into the psychology of leadership, exploring the fascinating dynamic between narcissistic leaders and empathic team members. Carla offers a brilliant insight: "Narcissists are like little mice deep inside, but they have to look amazing on the outside." This powerful observation helps explain why some business owners create toxic environments despite their outward success.
Perhaps most valuable is the discussion about our relationship with ourselves. Both Carla and Robin share candid reflections on how self-limiting beliefs can sabotage our potential, and how breaking tasks into tiny steps can overcome even the most stubborn procrastination habits. The conversation shifts traditional thinking about work-life balance to the more practical concept of work-life harmony, where your professional and personal worlds blend naturally rather than compete.
Whether you're leading a team, building a business, or simply trying to live with more authenticity and purpose, this episode delivers profound wisdom wrapped in warm, accessible conversation. From networking strategies that actually work to the three keys for a more fulfilled life, you'll walk away with practical tools for immediate implementation.
Ready to transform how you relate to yourself and others? Listen now, and discover why sometimes our greatest challenges become our most powerful opportunities for growth.
Hello and welcome to Bustin' Beyond with your host, robin Hayhurst. In this podcast, robin will introduce guests that have known failure and want to share their story about how they got through it and what happened next. This will make you learn how to see things from a new perspective and avoid making the same mistakes. Please welcome Robin Hayhurst.
Speaker 2:Right, hello everybody, and we're joined today by Carla Smith. Carla Smith is a life coach and a business coach. Hello, carla.
Speaker 3:Hello Robin, how are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm very well, thank you. So we were introduced, weren't we, by the amazing Courtney, our social media guru, who does our social media for us, thank goodness for Courtney in social media guru who does our social media for us.
Speaker 3:Thank goodness for all the people in social media.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. So, Carla, tell me a little bit about you. You're based in South Africa. We know, or I know, that, not that the listeners don't. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:So I'm based in South Africa. I am a life coach. I haven't always been in this industry, so I started my career in corporate, in finance, and because I actually studied finance so this was many years ago, maybe 20 years ago and then moved to my own. I moved to a manufacturing business where I was a partner and a director there and I headed HR and finance. And when I headed HR, that's actually where my love for coaching started, because I started coaching all the leaders in our business, because I saw the gap.
Speaker 3:I saw the gap where we hire people for certain roles and expect them to be leaders, but they've never been a leader in their life and they need help with certain things, be it on a personal level or a business level. So I started coaching them and two years ago I lost both my parents 2023. And when that happened, I decided it was time to fulfill my passion and my purpose in life. I realized what it was and I opened my coaching practice my own coaching practice. So I've been doing my own coaching now for two years and this year I actually started studying psychology at SACAP. Sacap is a university in South Africa and I am absolutely loving it, so that's how I'm going to further my skills to help my clients.
Speaker 2:I think psychology is a very interesting area.
Speaker 3:It's so interesting.
Speaker 2:And I come across a lot of business owners and also hear stories about a lot of business owners.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And just a few of them. They're quite narcissistic.
Speaker 1:They don't kind of realize it.
Speaker 2:Everything's about them and their worries and they're definitely not leaders. And I look at those kind of people and and you think, well, you know why are you like that? And I actually put a lot of it down to this kind of fake facade they put up because actually they're suffering from imposter syndrome. Do you come across that a lot?
Speaker 3:yes, so one of my business partners was hugely narcissistic and I'm a bit of an empath. So it's interesting when that kind of dynamic comes into play, because narcissists like to have the empaths around, because the empaths make them feel all good and safe and, like my psychologist explained, they're like little mouse. Narcissists are like little mice deep inside, but they have to look like look at me, I am amazing, but that is all a mask and it can come across as I know exactly what I'm doing or fear-based. They like to lead with fear, which is not actually leading. So, yes, I have come across that and it's it's very difficult to actually even coach a narcissist because narcissists don't believe there's anything wrong with them. So if you don't believe there's anything wrong, then you're definitely not going to go and see a coach or a therapist and go. Please can you help me?
Speaker 2:I think that's a recurring. Recurring theme, though, isn't it? People who don't really see what's wrong. And the thing I like about what's what I do is I tend to coach. I do some one-to-one coaching by coaching groups, and everybody's there for the same reason they want to be better what they're doing. And that just is so powerful because they've got so much in common before we even start discussing what they've got in common, because they're actually sitting around the table trying to improve themselves. So it kind of dictates the kind of people they are.
Speaker 3:Yes, I agree. So narcissists, I wouldn't say, are people that want to grow, necessarily because they think they're at the top of their game and everyone else is below them. So if you're really coming with that mindset, how do you possibly even help someone like that? It doesn't. You know, if a narcissist is running a business, it's very difficult for employees and the people underneath them to actually grow as humans, because they put them down all the time. They don't try and bring them up, they don't try and encourage them to be better, because a narcissist doesn't want to be better. So if you don't want to be better, why would you encourage anyone else to be better?
Speaker 2:So in your time in HR, did you come across a few of these characters? Did you get involved in coaching back then? Because I've met a couple of people recently that worked for larger companies and part of the ethos of the company was to get coaching for people, and they're very well balanced people. They really have got a good handle on what's happening and you just can see that that investment that their company's made in them really paid off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know when you asked, you know when I did the HR role. So when I took over that HR role and I decided to coach all the leaders, I could see the difference talking to someone made in their lives in terms of how effective they would be with the productivity of the business. But also, it's not just the business, it's also their personal life. You know people say you know you must separate personal and business. Well, I actually think you are the same person everywhere. I don't believe in this. You are one person here and another person there. That, to me, is maybe some kind of disorder that you know you need to look at. You are the same person. You might you need to look at. You are the same person. You might have different roles, but you are the same person. So I could see that the benefit of coaching in their personal life as well as our business life and their careers yeah, huge benefits, I think, particularly life coaching side.
Speaker 2:People often talk about life-work balance and I think people get too hung up on that. I can't remember it wasn't my idea, I read it somewhere or heard it somewhere. But the idea of a work-life harmony works so much better for me Because if you kind of get rid of the guilt of particularly as a business owner, of dropping work for three hours because you want to go to cinema or see your kids during the day, it's a much better way of doing it than kind of having this kind of idea that you need to separate the two. They should just blend in so that you don't. I mean, I don't ever feel like I'm working. I'm doing a podcast now, you know.
Speaker 2:Um, tomorrow I'm traveling up to manchester and I'm going to run a workshop. I'm going to see some lovely people and we're going to help their businesses. You know there's bits of my job. I see it's work. You know someone's got to do the invoicing, but uh, generally I don't. So it's all just like a hobby and so I think I have harmony in my work-life balance. How have you come across that?
Speaker 3:And that's so beautiful. So you know, when I worked, when I was a partner in this manufacturing business, I mean I really didn't have balance there, so it was all about work. It really was. And I've got a 20-year-old son. He's just moved out of the house and he's gone to university, and when I've decided exciting times okay, isn't it?
Speaker 2:just just one, born in there. My kids both left. One went to university, one went kind of she's. She's now bought a house and I went ha, one's come back. She's now saving for a house and you know I love her to bits because she might well they never listen to my podcast. I'm pretty safe. I can say what I like actually. But yeah, they do come back.
Speaker 3:But hey, kids, and I'm missing hugely. I mean, when he said he wanted to leave, I'm like what you want to leave? Why do you want to leave? Why do you want to leave? But you know kids need to leave. That's why I parent them to leave. You know, it's important.
Speaker 3:So, um, so what was I saying when? Oh, the work-life balance. So I didn't see, I didn't see my son a lot. You know, when I was, you know working the way I was for 17 years, because it really was 17 years. And then when I made the transition and I started my own practice, I realized, not that I've been doing stuff wrong, it's. You know, we learn from everything we do in life, but how important it is to actually spend time on yourself too, that you are in like, we are also important. Yes, the business is obviously important, but we are also important. We are the ones that the employees look at. You know, through the tough times or when things are not going well, and if the owners are falling to pieces because they're working 24-7 and haven't had a five-minute break and haven't been on holiday for five years, you know how does that affect everyone else around the owner.
Speaker 3:And you know I talk about it a lot and I do a lot of postings on social media about business owners need to actually take themselves more seriously, but seriously in terms of giving themselves grace that they are also important and it's okay, like you say, to take three hours and go and do something for yourself because, first of all, the business will still be there and it will actually probably operate better because you're in a better space and mindset.
Speaker 2:I get that, I totally get that. I mean, I think when I was running my company back in 2000 to 2015, I was still suffering from guilt every time I took time off. Even when I was on holiday, I was working really because my idea of a business owner was someone who worked 24 hours a day and I suppose my role models at the time were kind of people in my circle who just worked. They're in the pub working, they've still got their phones on, they're still doing phone calls and they were my role models. And I've changed so much since then and I think actually I work hard and how that I did then, but I have a much better approach to it. So it's um, it doesn't feel like that yeah, and, and you know what we do.
Speaker 3:so, and it's just society that has taught us this. When we sit in an office, and an office in a building and we're there the whole day, then we must be the most productive, which I think is probably nonsense. Because what are we actually doing for those eight, nine hours sitting in a building looking at a computer, probably exhausted, worried about family life or something else besides work. So that doesn't increase productivity, that doesn't help, that doesn't help the business. There's a gap, there's a huge gap.
Speaker 2:There is. There's a great guy called Jeff Birch. Love him to bits. Came across him in 2005,. I think he's written a couple of books and he does speak around the UK Very funny. He basically does really serious talks but gets the point over through humor.
Speaker 2:But one of the things he said he said when you, when you leave your corporate position, you know you leave your company and I think at the time I might have just left quite a large construction company. He said you suddenly kind of worry that you kind of finish your job after three, four hours. Yeah, all the jobs got done in a day. And he said it's because you've got no politics, you've got nothing, you've got no systems that are pointless to run, you've got no stuff that is put voiced upon you. You're just getting on doing it. He said don't feel guilty, enjoy it. He said yeah, because that void, that void will be filled, because you'll end up growing the company and creating your own politics. He said you know, actually, if you just get down to the nitty gritty, you know that's a big part of your day is doing those things that aren't that productive.
Speaker 3:And we do that. You know we sit in front of our computers, answer all our emails that we probably don't need to answer then anyway, but you know it's the things that come up and then we miss out on actually what we should be doing or what we can be contributing to help the business grow absolutely because we fight or flight all the time yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Getting back to you, so you're in this corporate world. You're doing hr uh, the dreaded hrs a few american films that are. You know hr are the baddies. You know what changed what? What made you come out of that? What made you to launch what you're doing now? What changed for you?
Speaker 3:so. So I was there for 10 years and I loved it. I learned so much from being in a very, very different environment. So, you know, from corporate to manufacturing is quite different. We had about 100 employees and things had to work quite differently, because 100 employees is quite a few employees. So you know, you need to get your systems right, your HR right, your manufacturing processes right and the people, the soft skills, were very, very important. So that's what I was focused on there.
Speaker 3:But as I I don't know if I want to say got older, I realized that because I was doing so much coaching and talking to the employees all the time, I realized that that was actually my passion. My passion is helping others, helping people, helping employees. It's just naturally what I do. It's actually what I've always done, if I really look back and connect the dots. And then I started doing my coaching accreditation while I was still working there, and then all my employees were my practical. I used them for my practical hours and they were all open to it.
Speaker 3:And when my parents passed in 2023, and it was they passed, quite tragically, they passed five weeks apart and once that happened, I hit quite a low and I decided that this was the turning point in my life and I knew I needed to make a change and I made the change. I mean, I could say, you know, my parents' deaths were my turning point. You know, that was the silver lining, if I can put it that, because there's no real nice thing about losing parents, but it's it forced me to look at myself and go. Life is short. What do I really want to do with the rest of my life? How do I really want to add value? How do I want to contribute and how will I grow the most and what is fulfilling for me? So those are the questions I asked.
Speaker 2:There's a saying I don't know who said it, but it goes along the lines of you know, if you really love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Yes, and I kind of. I think in my life I've convinced myself I love what I do sometimes and I fell into this by absolute accident. Absolute accident, you know, coaching construction companies. Yeah, I really really did fall into it by accident. I absolutely love it and I've met the most amazing people and I have some amazing clients and I, you know, it's like starting the podcast. I mean starting the podcast. I started it. I think it's almost two years ago it might be longer actually, because Bronwyn, who is my VA, keeps reminding me she's worked for me for four years, which is like, really, my God, are you sure.
Speaker 3:Are you sure? Yeah, well, I actually said that.
Speaker 2:I said are you sure You're making it up? So I started my podcast really to get something off my chest. You know it was about. You know, your pivotal point was your parents dying and I lost my father in 2021, but my pivotal point, the point that really changed my life, was the family company going bust, and hence Bust and Beyond podcast.
Speaker 2:It took a lot of years, actually, for that to not affect me, but to make me change things, for that to not affect me, but to make me change things, yeah, so it took me a lot of years to understand that failure was just part of life and there were so many lessons to be learned around that. And you know, and to look at myself, not, not the people around me and it was really, um, so I'd say, what? Four years? Yeah, 2019. I started on, yeah, 2019,. I started on my journey yeah, 2020, really on my journey of doing this. So, yeah, yeah. So, going back to that, when I lost my father in 2021 through the COVID pandemic, he was ready to go. It was really difficult. He was my best mate, he was my mentor, he was my business partner and it wasn't as bad as losing the company in 2015, which sounds really callous, but I couldn't do anything about my father passing.
Speaker 1:I couldn't.
Speaker 2:You know, he was kind of ready to go. He said he, you know, he was a bit fuzzy in his head and he didn't feel that he was, you know, enjoying life as much as he had before, and I couldn't read all about it, whereas the company, oh God, we went down kicking and screaming, sure. So you know, I had to get up every day. So it's an interesting journey that we all take, and sometimes it's the worst things in your life that get you to do the best things in your life.
Speaker 3:And it's so true that, you know, I never would have thought that the passing of my parents I mean first of all, I mean their deaths were sudden. So it wasn't that it was these long illnesses, it just happened quite suddenly and by the end of that year, because they passed in July 2023 and August 2023 and by November that year I'd already resigned and decided what I was going to do the next year. And if I look now, I mean it's almost been two years since that passed, coming up obviously in July and August this year. My life is completely different. It looks completely different. I don't go to, you know, a nine-to-five job, not that a nine-to-five job, not that I had a nine-to-five job, but you know that's what these businesses can be like. Coaching is different. You know you have your clients. I've joined networking groups. I do workshops. I've met completely different people that I never thought I would meet before, because all I did was stay in this building all the time. So that's where you operate from. You know that's who you meet. You meet your suppliers.
Speaker 2:Are you like me? Do you love doing workshops? I've done. I've got quite a few different workshops.
Speaker 1:I do and I used to do them.
Speaker 2:I used to do them online and I wasn't really getting that kind of feeling about them, and then I started doing them in person okay and you just meet these fabulous people and every workshop is so different. I could run the same workshop, so I've got a client's journey workshop, I've got a build your five-year business workshop, I've got site processes, and every workshop is different because the people in it and the stories they tell yeah and then go beyond that.
Speaker 2:I change the workshops after every workshop because I go all right, okay, that story, that so-and-so told me that really is relevant, so we need to cover that somehow in the workshop next time. I just find it. I travel all over the country which, as a builder, as a builder, developer, most probably 10, 15 miles from where I live. You know, england's a bit more compact than South.
Speaker 1:Africa.
Speaker 2:But we weren't very far from here. Suddenly I'm working in London, manchester, bristol, birmingham you know all over the place.
Speaker 3:How wonderful.
Speaker 2:I do, I love it Most. Probably if I traveled for work all my life I'd be going oh my god you know. But no, I, I really enjoy it, and hotels to me are still places that you go on holiday to. So I always, kind of I always arrive the night before I treat myself to a particularly good glass of wine very nice and a nice meal and then, uh, you know, all ready for the next day.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's interesting. Do you do a lot of stuff in person or do you find, because it's such a bigger country, a lot of it's virtual?
Speaker 3:No, so I do a lot in person, so my workshops are in person. I haven't actually launched workshops online. I was thinking of doing some group thing online. I just haven't got to that yet, but the workshops that I've done have all been in person. I'm actually busy with two at the moment.
Speaker 2:In one town? Do you travel around or how do you do it?
Speaker 3:So we travel. So I live in Rivonia and there's a center called the Collaborative Healing Center that's in Kalami. It's about 20 minutes away, so for us that's normal. I'm not sure what it's like on your side, but for us that's normal traveling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 20 minutes is fine, we'll do 20 minutes. Yeah, I mean, it's just that when you kind of go, I've just I'm a great avid film watcher, um, and when you see films, particularly America, they go, oh yeah, the local shops. Not far. It's only an hour down the road, it's a long way, you know, um.
Speaker 3:I was very far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, but England isn't a small country, but it's not a big country.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think people, perhaps from other countries, think that we can literally, you know you've got enough room to swing a cat. It's a big enough country, there's plenty of open space in it, but we're dwarfed by, you know, large countries like South Africarica, america and others. But of course, you know we used to be the british empire, so we used to run run the whole lot. Yeah, so then we had a very big, big area so not, not so much anymore no, not so, not at all anymore.
Speaker 2:I don't think. Yeah, we have a thing called the commonwealth, which is, like you know, people can leave that, so I don't think we realize how big south africa is actually.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, because it's I, I don't. I don't think we realize, because you know we've got durban, we've got cape town. You know I'm talking about provinces here, so you can travel quite far.
Speaker 2:Well, by plane, if you put it by plane, if you went to, you know the furthest, two cities apart, how long is the journey?
Speaker 3:So Cape Town would be two hours flat, durban would be an hour flat.
Speaker 2:So, carla, as a life coach, then what would you say that? You see, I know this is a really big question. Actually, what's the thing that people get wrong? What's the kind of main thing do you think people get?
Speaker 3:wrong and this might sound a bit strange. So I think the biggest challenge let me put it that way people have is the relationship they have with themselves and it doesn't sound strange at all.
Speaker 2:It doesn't sound strange at all because I totally, totally see that in so many people and in myself.
Speaker 3:So if we don't. And I've been on my own internal journey for over 20 years. So I started with therapy at the age of 20. I had a little bit of an abusive upbringing and it led to some sabotaging habits, let's put it that way and I sought the help from a therapist back when I was 20, literally. And I started realizing from a young age that if we do not work on ourselves and develop ourselves and understand ourselves, it affects everything in our life. It affects the relationships we have around us, it affects the kind of career we go into, it affects how we actually operate on a daily basis. You know, when we are reactive and all these triggers and we cross and we're angry and all of that. Those are things we can.
Speaker 2:all we can get better at that if we understand why it's happening, if we understand that perhaps Well, you can imagine me I work with loads of builders and lots of them don't really get the working on themselves bit maybe, you know, maybe fitness or physical, but mentally not at all. And when I look back on my life so far because I've still got a huge ambition and loads of things I want to do and, you know, my self-limiting belief was most probably the biggest factor in me not getting to exactly where I wanted to be or enjoying it when I got there. So that's also quite important and so I think you know that relationship you have for yourself. I sat with a business coach in 2005 and did a plan for my company or a family company and I didn't connect with it.
Speaker 2:I didn't believe it, it was just figures, and I think when I do coaching with companies, what I want people to realize is growing a big company a successful big company isn't difficult, but the biggest factor in it is that you believe you can and it's so true that we literally stand in our own ways.
Speaker 3:We stand in our own way yeah and, but it's sometimes it's difficult to go to that places where we have to admit maybe I don't believe in myself. But why don't I believe in myself? What has contributed to my life that I feel this way about myself? It's hard to go there. It's hard. It's easier to get busy, to hustle and bustle, to be distracted and you know, with the social media and all sorts of things that can distract us these days and it takes us away from actually living more fulfilled lives. Because when we get in touch with ourselves, it is a rewarding journey.
Speaker 2:It's difficult but it's rewarding because we watch ourselves grow and we see ourselves grow and we affect people by our growth too yeah, no, I, I totally see that and I and you can grow at any stage in your life and you can change any stage your life. This whole idea that, um, maybe it's a South African saying lepers can't change letters, but it's not true. You know, I've seen people change dramatically at any stage in their life and you can pick up today and kind of decide that today's the day and move forward with it. Most people procrastinate. I mean, that's the big thing, isn't it? You procrastinate, procrastinate, procrastinate. And I see so many people online going oh, I've got the cure for this. There isn't a cure for it, you just have to go and do it. It's like you know, I work around procrastination by making it small steps. So you know I'm not good at being consistent with things.
Speaker 2:So I like to run. I find it really therapeutic to run, but I don't always. I have six, nine months without running, and you know. But to get me running, I just go look, I'll just put my trainers on. That's all I'm offering to myself is, I'll put my trainers on. But once I get my trainers on, I go, I've got one. I must look out the door. I'll just do like you know, I'll just run, run around the village once you know which is about a mile, that. Or walk, I'll walk around the village and then that moves on to well, actually, I'm feeling, okay, I'll, I'll, I'll run, and then that moves on to well, actually, I'm feeling okay, I'll run, and then that moves on to well, actually, maybe I'll do a couple of more.
Speaker 2:So that's how I go. I calm myself. I used to do that down the gym. I used to, kind of when I was a member of one of these kind of posh gyms. I used to go well, I'll just go and have a steam, and you're there, and then, you know, did some weights, and that's how I do it. And I also do that with work. I do. You know, I do that with lots of things. If I'm procrastinating about them, I don't even know I'm doing it. Now I just I don't consciously go, I'll just have a little step, I just go.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll just go and I teach my clients that you know, break things down in sizable steps. You know in practical steps, because they come and see me and they're completely overwhelmed because maybe they've got this huge goal or they feel like they haven't achieved much or they're not going anywhere in life, but their problem, they've made it so big or their goal is so big. And when anything is so big it's like having Mount Everest. You don't just run up. You know there's little steps that you need to take to get to the next step.
Speaker 2:Well, there's another South African saying again it must be South African, it couldn't be English. How do you eat an elephant?
Speaker 3:Yes, one bite at a time.
Speaker 2:One bite at a time.
Speaker 3:And it's one small bite at a time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does relate to life, so much though, doesn't it? So you know, one of the other things when I've gone through the really stressful times of my life so we've had many court cases, we went bust and stuff like that I kind of made a decision. This whole idea with the where focus goes, energy flows I think it might be a tony robbins, it's it's, it's absolutely correct. It's nothing to spirituality or or anything like that. It's to do with the fact that if, if in day, you go right, I have this simple system I do in my head. You know, can I do anything about that today? Whatever it is, can I do anything about it? And if the answer is yes, do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. If the answer is no, forget it and I'll do the same process tomorrow. So you know, can I do that and think the? The real outcome of that, or the reason why it works so well, is because if I'm running a company and I'm worried about something that's going to happen down the road, like I'm running out of money or going bust or I don't know, it could be as bad as dying from cancer or something you know, I'm not going to run my company, am I? I'm just going to worry. So therefore, if I'm worried about going bust, for instance, and I'm not going to run my company, am I, I'm going to spend my time worrying.
Speaker 3:So therefore, if I'm worried about going bust, for instance, and I'm not running my company properly. What's going to?
Speaker 2:happen. Yeah, you're going to go bust, yeah. So it's really important that you focus on what's in front of you and doing it, and you only kind of come back to that thing that's worrying you when you could do something about it and I also believe what we think about we bring about yeah, it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:You know, we don't realize how, actually, how powerful our thoughts are. They're very, very powerful. So if we're always thinking, oh, life's so hard, or this is going wrong, or this is such a challenge, and it's that kind of mentality, that's actually how we are perceived in life and that's what we project.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And we can change things. I always say I say people ask me why I see a life coach, and my answer to that is sometimes we don't actually see our own blind spots, because how can we see our own blind spots? If we're in our own minds, we can't possibly see our own blind spots. But when we talk to someone who's trained in these areas, they can pick up your blind spots, and then the discussion becomes a little bit different. The conversation becomes a little bit different. And then the discussion becomes a little bit different. The conversation becomes a little bit different, and then the client starts going oh, I didn't see it that way, I didn't think about it like that well, it's wood for the trees, it's wood for the tree syndrome.
Speaker 2:So you can't see the wood for the trees. And you know, I mean I had a conversation with a business owner and he said I've got a problem really. He was very, very upset. He said I'm going to have to close my company. I've only got I've got 10 electricians, I've only got work for five. He said so I, I, I can't keep up with the payments, can't keep up with the wages. You know we haven't built the company back up enough to support everybody. So I've closed company. I went well, why don't you just get rid of five electricians? And he literally went oh yeah, because he was so in the moment, so caught up with the problem. The solution, it was so obvious and I do get clients going. Oh well, you know that was so simple, I knew that, but you did, but you didn't do anything about it, did you so? And that happens a lot, just talking it through with someone who's not affected and and not emotionally involved in your problem because it can be a really powerful thing, yes, they're removed from the situation.
Speaker 3:So you know people will say no, but I'll ask family or friends or colleagues, or no? That's too close, it's too, close. Sometimes you're all involved in this emotionally charged moment or challenge, and when we step out of our circle and ask for advice or or guidance or mentorship from someone different, then then life starts to look a little bit different. The opportunity, our challenges actually start to look like opportunities yeah, yeah, no, I totally get that.
Speaker 2:And I think when I was approached by someone the other day with the other week running a massive company I mean massive 160 million turnover and he said like I just um, I don't own the company, I'm running it and I find it really difficult and the kind of other company that runs it won't pay for a board of directors. I've got no one to speak to. I'm feeling very lonely, I need someone to speak to. And he said could it be you? And I went I mean I'm happy to do that.
Speaker 2:I said, but I've got no experience of running a £160 million company. I've worked in a few that big, but I haven't run one. And he went yeah, but I haven't run one. And he went yeah, but that's the whole point. I just want someone to sense, check what I'm thinking and when it comes down to nitty gritty, actually his problems were on quite a basic level, but it's surprising who you come across and who wants your help. I'm very honest about what my expertise is, what I can do, but just having someone to talk to, who will think through the problems with you and perhaps give you just a slightly different perspective or slightly different angle on, it can solve a problem so quickly yes, and and it takes an open mind to also say, please can you come here?
Speaker 3:I know you haven't run these businesses, but give me your view on things. It takes an open mind to do that because, like we were speaking about the narcissists, if you like that they will not allow someone else to come into their business and tell them X, Y Z. So coaching also works with people that actually want to see things differently and a different approach.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's partly why groups are so powerful. Yeah, so you know, if you get a group together, they've got so much in common. They start talking to each other, they start talking about their problems and, by the way, they've all got the same problems. Wow, I don't feel so lonely now, and even better than that, you know, fred, on the end he's resolved that problem that way because he knew a guy and he's going to introduce me to that guy and that's going to resolve my problem for me, and it could have taken me years to find that guy, you know, and that is, it's called peer-to-peer learning and I suppose it's kind of what brought me into this world, but took me a long time to actually instigate something where it worked. I got excited about peer-to-peer learning because running a business is lonely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, yes. Being an entrepreneur is lonely. You, you know when you're sitting, you know doing everything yourself. You actually have to get yourself out there to meet people in either the same industries or different industries. You have to collaborate and network and do all all sorts of things. It's not it's not an employee mindset, it's's a different mindset.
Speaker 2:Oh no, it's completely different and it's brought me into a whole new world.
Speaker 3:An exciting world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is, yeah, it is quite exciting. It's also not necessarily straightforward because there's your good players and your bad players. So you know podcasters. I've met some quite big names in our niche. You know what we do. So my expertise is construction and development and house building. But my expertise now is also moving into marketing and podcasting and networking and you know all that kind of world, the entrepreneur's world, where I go to events which you know I go to build.
Speaker 2:An event it's like you know, you know it's like not good, you go to industry well, I actually strange enough I mean, that's another, another subject but there's a organization called the federation of master builders which I now work with quite closely, love it, absolutely love it. And the I now work with quite closely, love it, absolutely love it. And the reason I work with them is I went to one of their awards events and it was amazing because it felt like a real celebration of the industry. So it was really different from so many events I go to for the industry.
Speaker 2:But apart from that, you go to entrepreneurs' events. They might have a DJ on the stage. They'll have everyone's really buzzing, everyone's really talking, everyone's really kind of hyped up, everyone's really kind of into what you're doing and how you do it and they want to learn from every single person in the room and just a completely different atmosphere.
Speaker 3:And they're some of them really well worth going to yeah, so you know I belong to bni bni worldwide, so maybe you've heard of BNI, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've definitely heard of BNI. Loads of people I know are in BNI. It's not for me, okay, but BNI has been really good for some people, some companies. I don't like the one company and one seat concept, okay, like the one company in one seat concept. So, and and I don't like the priority of of giving leads to people within bni because it doesn't mean they're the best. You know, if I'm gonna, one of the things I do about um introductions is I do not get paid for introductions. So if I recommend courtney, for instance, our mutual friend who does social media and I do all the time, she doesn't give me £100 for every introduction I do, she just takes the business. I'm very, very glad that she's got a benefit from it, and the same of everything else in business. So I want to recommend people because they're good. Yeah, now, bni doesn't take a payment either, so that's actually fine. So it's nothing like that. But you're recommending people with BNI sometimes just because they're in your BNI.
Speaker 3:In your chapter.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it does because it works on referrals. So you're right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You're right.
Speaker 2:So I don't quite agree with that. But, having said that, I'm not against it because I've seen lots of companies of particular size done really well out of learning to network properly. They do a lot of teaching around that and they do a lot of introductions at an early stage, which will help people grow their businesses.
Speaker 3:Yes, and it's interesting I've only joined in December. And it's interesting I've only joined in December and what made me join was it was you know, you meet so many different entrepreneurs because obviously you can visit many chapters you can visit as many chapters as you want and I thought how interesting that there's such a different world out there that when you're sitting in a building and in corporate or whatever it is, you don't get out and meet all these people. But they're there, they're there.
Speaker 2:They are, yes, and the network is really important to them and their businesses because they're trying to glean knowledge, they're trying to get that golden nugget of people. They're trying to find people that can help them and they can help. I mean, that's the thing about networking. Where I see people get completely wrong is they go to a network meeting. They go right, I want business? They go I'm a really good builder, I'm the best builder you've ever met. I'm fantastic, you should employ me. And that's what they do, and that's just the wrong way. And then they come to the end of the meeting. They go I didn't get a single job. Yeah, well, it's actually.
Speaker 2:Networking is about hello, I'm fred, you know what's your name, what do you do? Okay, how, how can I assist you? To who can I help you? You know, get on with and perhaps get some business or or get some assistance. You know who in this room do. I know that I can help you. And if you go around doing that for six months for these meetings, people start going. Yeah, we know that guy. He's great, since he's loads of people and you want to speak to him because he's really good. You know he's a really good builder. So people do get networking really wrong and I often go to network events where people talk about them. I mean, I literally when I go to network event, I have to be really careful, because I'm so excited about what I do, I tend to talk about me and I actually have to go right. No, no, and I do that yeah, I mean it's like running workshops, you know.
Speaker 2:You know, running a few workshops you're used to filling in the gaps. Talking, you know, and sometimes when I'm in a normal conversation with a normal person, I have to remember listen in, listen in, listen in your job can affect the way you socialise. I think.
Speaker 3:Yes, and as a coach, you know it's all about listening. You know, and building relationships and building rapport. And you know listening to what people are not saying. It's not just what they are saying, it's what they're not saying because we're all holding things close to our heart that we don't necessarily just want to. So there's skill in that, there's a skill in listening and building that relationship.
Speaker 2:I totally agree with you. Listening is such an important skill and it's something that I'm still trying to master. My wife says I'm rubbish at it, but uh, but no, I I think you're right. I mean so many people I meet and talk to, even clients. They lie. Now that sounds really dramatic, doesn't it? They lie, they don't mean to lie yeah but it's a bit like if I say to you how you doing, doing amazing yeah in england.
Speaker 2:Amazing. But are you? You know so people generally lie in a house business. Um, have you had got any really bad problems? Your clients no, I got on well with all my clients, okay. And then we carry on around the table and I might call, I might say, yeah, but you're lying, and everyone laughs, you know, thinking, yeah, he's just winding up. But later on, as you go around the table, someone will say, yeah, this guy didn't pay me a hundred grand. And then you come back to the original guy and he'll go, yeah, no, I didn't get paid by a hundred grand, hold on, but you said you got on well with all your clients, yeah, you know so people do lie. And that's where you've got to realize. You know people lie the fact that they can't afford something when you're selling them something. They lie around lots of things.
Speaker 3:They're not lies as we see them, but they're not telling the truth and you know what I find helps with things like that is if, like you, you say yes, you call them out and say you're lying. But if you go and say something like well, I'm actually battling with this, then it almost gives people permission to go.
Speaker 2:I'm also battling with this and it does work. I mean, when I call someone out, I do it in a very jokey way so it's um, yeah but the funnier thing is when you go back on it. When you go back to it, they actually go. Go back to it, they actually go. Yeah, yeah, so you were lying, well, yeah, and then everyone really laughs even harder.
Speaker 3:I was just painting the truth, just painting the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, people do, and you know I see myself as a really honest person. But I can't say I haven't told white lies, you know. You know, when my wife said do I look really good in this? I often say yes, when perhaps I shouldn't. But then again, it depends if you think she does or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my opinion isn't really, you know, worth, but I mean some things I think she looks amazing in and you know, then she'll most probably not wear it. So there we are. So we normally end the podcast with kind of just a kind of a bit of advice. So if you were going to kind of three things that you think people should do to improve their lives and I know this is a very big generalization and a big ask, really, what's the three most important things for people to concentrate on? We spoke about kind of their relationship themselves. What's the other two?
Speaker 3:so I would say to be honest with themselves. You know we speak about being truthful. Be honest with yourself. So if you're finding it difficult to be honest with others about the issues you have, at least be honest with yourself, because when you're honest with yourself you can move forward. If you're lying to yourself, you cannot move forward in a state like that. So at least be honest with yourself.
Speaker 2:That's around kind of the area that I talk about quite a bit, which is people sell themselves a story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if in the uk someone steals a car, they might then set the car on light. You know a light, uh, because there's a type of insurance that if your car is on fire, you get the value of the car back. Okay, so the story they tell themselves is they're not doing any harm because these cars are insured anyway and they're going to muck around in the car and then they're going to set light to it, which means that they're trying to help people get their money back. So they sold themselves a story. They don't see the fact that the guy doesn't get the money for months, he hasn't got a car to to use, maybe loses his job, maybe loses his house. You know all the other impacts of that. But they've sold themselves a story they're happy with. And even murderers and you know, uh, and other people you know that are do things that are very bad and they will have a story. They won't just do it, they'll have some justification in their head. So I think being honest yourself is not believing your own story.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it's just saying look yeah, I mean I don't want to swear but um and I won't.
Speaker 2:But uh, you know, cut the bull, nonsense, you know yeah yeah yeah, absolutely, I know, and we do that all the time and everybody's got a story and I hear it so many times. I say to my kids sometimes, when, um, they fall out with a friend or something, no, or you know, or someone's social media says something not very nice about them, that person feels justified, they feel that they, you know, because they've made up a story about this person, they might not even know, they're jealous of some fact that isn't, might not even be true yes so yeah, so why worry about it?
Speaker 2:why worry about it? So, yes, that's, that's. That's so, be honest with yourself. And what's the third one?
Speaker 3:so I want to. I want to give advice about being kind and being kind to yourself, but also being kind to others. And sometimes I think we really battle with this because there's so much going on in the world at the moment and it's very stressful because when we are hurting internally, we tend to hurt other people. When we are angry, then we're angry with other people. But if we're kind to ourselves, we have got more empathy with ourselves. We can have more empathy for others, and I do believe this helps on every level. It helps build relationships. It just helps living a good daily life and if we have a good daily life, you know that compounds and then we have good months and good years and it just compounds. So be kind, be kind to yourself and be kind to others. We don't know what people are going through.
Speaker 2:No, you don't.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it just takes a little smile or a little how are you, or something, and it changes that person's day and we don't even realize how we impact each other.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, impact on someone's life is amazing. It can be just. My grandfather used to say if he was, my step-grandfather didn't find out until my 20s, but he used to say because he was, he saw himself as a professional driver. He was a lorry driver and he used to say look, you know, if you stop and let someone in, you might make their day. You know, if you stop in traffic, just let someone into the queue, you might make their day. You know, if you stop in traffic, just let someone into the queue, you might make their day. You know that's a nice thing to do and I think often you don't know what's what's happening. I mean, I often smile at people. I love doing it because you know what.
Speaker 2:90 of the time they smile back and yeah, and there's a saying which I've used since I was a kid, which is smile, and the whole world will smile with you, and it's so true.
Speaker 2:I love it and I think, yeah, it's, you can have such an impact. I mean, I've told stories on the podcast before about having an impact on someone's life. But just a comment or a bit of advice or anything you know can make a huge impact on someone's life. So you often won't know what impact you've had. You know, maybe these podcasts have had an impact on someone's life. I don't necessarily get feedback from people that listen to the podcast, but we've had 2,000 people listen to podcasts. So you know, there's two things all around the world, I think 42 countries, oh, wow. So you know, people all around the world are listening to the podcast and I'm hoping they'll impact someone's life. Just give them one kind of nugget that goes, you know, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And the other thing around that is you know, I noticed for me, linkedin at the moment has got a very right wing and I often think, oh, I'm really really cross about that and I go to make a comment and I go, nah, really, I mean, it's not worth it. I, what am I doing? What am I doing, you know? So, um, sometimes I comment. If I do comment, I tone it down a lot from my original kind of like, you know, thoughts, um, but I often, more often than not, just go. I I'm really cross about that, what you're saying. But, to be honest, if that's your belief, then I think I'll leave you to it and I there's no point start this online route. There's enough. You know.
Speaker 3:There's nothing's going on in the world and and it happens a lot, I see it a a lot, you know, especially social media. So someone says something someone doesn't like and it becomes a huge rant. I go you know I'm all for. You know we have our own opinions and our beliefs, and that's all good. But you know where our energy goes and we spoke about that earlier. Where our energy goes, the energy flows and that's the kind of life we're going to lead.
Speaker 2:We're always fighting the energy flows and that's the kind of life we're going to lead. We're always fighting. I think if someone's sexist or racist or you know, or any of those online, they've got a problem. I don't want to get involved in their problem. You know they don't think like me, they're not my tribe, so you know they can get on with it and there's no point trying to. If they're going to post that kind of thing online, they're doing it to get what we call a rise up, a kind of get people boiling. Yeah, and don't let them do it.
Speaker 3:So you know Rather stay away from the drama.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so, carla. It's been a wonderful speaking to you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Robin and maybe you'll come on again and we'll have a chat another few months. Yeah, I would love to. This was very insightful and, uh, I enjoyed this a lot, so thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it, and one day, when I do come over to south africa to meet all my team, we might better do a podcast recording in person. Who knows?
Speaker 3:wonderful, I'm gonna hold you to that it's on the list. It's on the list, so uh and we can have a glass of wine, because I know you like red wine oh, yes, I do like red wine.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely, yeah. So, uh, and there's some good south african red wine, so there is, there is yeah very good, wonderful, lovely to meet you thank you, robin, and you thanks.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to Bustin' Beyond with Robin Hayhurst. Be sure to tune in next time and visit his website at robinhayhurstcom.