Bust and Beyond
Failure is a part of life and business, and I experienced the failure of a business in 2015 that my father had started in 1969. The effect it had on me emotionally was huge, yet the outside world knew nothing. I kept it to myself. I learnt so much from that failure, and it made me determined to support other business owners in the construction industry to avoid failure and flourish.
As I started to speak to business owners about failure, I learnt just how many had suffered from mental health issues and harmful thoughts. This drove me to start my podcast to educate and let people know how to avoid failure and know if they are going through failure, they are not alone, but more importantly, there is life and success after the failure of your business.
Bust and Beyond
E40 From Burnout To Blueprint
If you’ve ever felt like you’re working harder and getting nowhere, Dan’s story will hit home. We sit down with the owner of a Manchester-based building firm that went from “just crack on and hope” to a confident operation built on systems, accountability, and a sharper client experience. The change wasn’t magic. It started with one decision: stop winging it and build repeatable habits that protect profit, time, and trust.
We unpack the pivotal shifts. Delegation gave Dan the space to overhaul his quoting process, clarify scope, and respond faster without cutting corners. A defined client journey—with a simple brochure, pre-start checklist, and two strategic stop points—reduced snagging and removed that frantic rush to handover. Gantt scheduling and better communication across multiple sites brought order to moving parts. Live cost tracking delivered visibility without bloated overhead. Small moves, consistently applied, produced big outcomes: higher win rates, happier clients, and a calmer calendar.
People are at the heart of the turnaround. A practical team scoring framework helped Dan coach early, address issues fairly, and back the right players to grow with the company. We also dig into the trade’s bigger challenge: a shortage of skilled workers. Dan’s answer is unapologetic—invest in apprentices now or pay for it later. He’s building talent from the ground up while keeping standards high. Along the way, he shares a raw moment about nearly going under, and how honest conversations and peer accountability lifted the weight and reset the strategy.
If demand is booming and you’re still stuck, the bottleneck is probably inside the business, not the market. This conversation gives you a realistic blueprint: process as freedom, not chains; data instead of guesswork; coaching over crisis management; and a peer group that keeps you honest. Subscribe, share this with a builder who needs a nudge, and leave a quick review with the one system you’ll implement this month.
Hello and welcome to Bust and Beyond with your host Robin Hayhurst. In this podcast, Robin will introduce guests that have known failure and want to share their story about how they got through it and what happened next. This will make you learn how to see things from a new perspective and avoid making the same mistakes. Please welcome Robin Hayhurst.
SPEAKER_00:Hello Dan and welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:So, Dan, introduce yourself and your business and where you're from.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I'm Daniel Bowden, the managing, well, the company owner and director of Bridge Construction Northwest. We are a company from Manchester with eight to ten employees and employed plus subcontractors working for us full-time. Our work involves a variety from structural alterations to extensions, new builds, loft conversions down to kitchen or simply hanging the door and fit some skirting boards for a customer. A big variety of work really is what we do. But we do try and specialise and try and stick to mainly the loft conversions and the extensions and the new builds, really. But we'll we'll do anything.
SPEAKER_00:So we met kind of via the FMB, didn't we, originally? So you came to the FMB workshop?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah, we did.
SPEAKER_00:So briefly, kind of before you started the construction success programme, where were you? What was happening with your business? You know, how were you feeling?
SPEAKER_01:Um feeling not really going anywhere. Um working a lot, but not really seeing the advantages of the hard work that you know I was putting in. It was a lot of strain and stress on the family, which don't get me wrong, it's there's still, you know, a lot of stress and strain on on family life now as the company continues to grow, but it's in a lot better position and a lot better way than it was before I started the programme over a year ago. You know, it's made a massive difference. It felt like I was in a rut, not really getting anywhere. The foundations were were there, but then I not come from a business background. I'm a I'm a builder at the end of the day. My background is building, I didn't know how to run a business, didn't really know much about business and stuff like that in you know, on a on a running side, I just knew how to run a building site and a and uh and a building job. I didn't really know how to run a company, and I was winging it, really, is the word I always use, and just just making it up as I went along, really, and hoping that you've got to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've used I I think I've used that word a few times in posts recently, so yeah, winging it. Yeah, it's not really the solution, is it? No. So looking back on those days, what was your biggest day-to-day challenges then?
SPEAKER_01:Trying to manage, you know, it's that you see it all the time online that um the real on Instagram where the the guys trying to run a business, do quotes, do the invoicing, do the do the family life, and then try and still have a personal life, and it's so difficult to do, and it's only you know, since I started the course that it's really opened my eyes, and since you know I've had you as as guidance and help, and I've been learning and implementing things that you know, and it's a bit on yourself as well, because it it's your company, you don't really want anyone else involved, and you kind of find it. I've personally found it really hard and was really reluctant to delegate duties and responsibilities to other people, which but since I've done that, it's allowed me a lot more freedom to focus on you know certain aspects of the business, training the lads, you know, that are apprentices, being more with the lads where they need me, and also growing the company which I've had more time to do and focus on more and getting quotes out quicker, and but putting more time into the quotes so I know exactly what's involved and the processes and everything like that. And you know, really, you know, the our total quote system has been I've fully got rid of it and started again and really changed it, and it's it's changed for a big difference, and it's made a massive difference for us. Our job percentage that we're winning and and everything like that. In the last year, our staff turnover, uh our number of employees, sorry, has doubled. So we've gone from three, three slash four to now we've got nine employed. So it's more than doubled, but it's it's only recently that we took someone out, so we're probably going to be looking for another person to make it ten in the probably in the new year now.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so before the program, had you tried to do anything to kind of get over that hump to kind of change things?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, it was stuck in a vicious circle, just just stuck in a vicious circle of just going round, and you'd say, Yeah, I'm gonna do this, this, and this, and try and make it different, and it never changed, nothing ever changed. And I think that was at a point in the business where I had two young lads at the time, apprentices, and it was kind of difficult to grow because I wanted to keep I like to keep a lot of the stuff in-house, a lot of the work we do, because I've taught the lads and they know to the standard that you know we require, I've set so that's another part of the side where I find it difficult to sometimes bring in subcontractors because it's a worry in the back of my mind because I've been burnt in the past of the fact that it could go wrong, and then I've got to spend my time then putting all the work right and everything like that. But I think now it was like I say, it was just a vicious circle of firefighting and just trying to put fires out everywhere. I've made mistakes when I first set out, definitely made big mistakes, stuff that had you know always been a great learning curve for myself when I was younger. I went self-employed when I was 22, started doing extensions straight away, and yeah, there's some big there's some big learning experiences. Um really big, but I'm very fortunate that I've also got me my father, my dad who's in the trade, he does plumbing and bathrooms. But I've been able to lean on him a lot when I was younger for a bit of guidance and stuff like that, but not on the business side, that was just to deal with customers, how to go about it, how I should approach certain situations, you know, when things got tense with customers and things like that. So it was it's definitely yeah, when I look back now on the way I used to do it, I don't know how I did it personally from a business running point of view and everything like that to how it is now with the people who've got involved close to me, it's a massive, massive difference, and it's a good it's a good difference as well. It's made my family life a lot happier and a lot better. Still room for improvement, massive room for improvement, but from where it was to where it is now, it's a big difference, and it can only, in my eyes, get better as as it goes forward and we and we continue to grow, hopefully.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're on the journey now, aren't you? I mean, learning from mistakes is the most powerful way to learn, but unfortunately, some people don't come back from those mistakes. So, you know, it's not the best way to learn, it's the most powerful way to learn. Yeah. The best way to learn if you're open-minded is to learn from other people's mistakes. So that's kind of you know the way forward, really. So when when we first kind of started talking about the course, I think you did the Build Your Five Year Business Workshop, and I think I said to you that it's they're workshops, you'll be working. Yeah. How did you feel about that kind of moving forward?
SPEAKER_01:Um, it's something that instantly grabbed my attention because I knew that things needed to change, and that was why I initially booked on to the to the one-day workshop through the FMB, because I knew something had to change if the company wanted to grow. I couldn't couldn't grow it the way I was doing it, and it was never gonna grow that way because I it just wasn't, it was it was a functioning problem, basically. So it it was it was ticking over, but it wasn't it wasn't a business, it was just like a one-man band, basically, and I'd got a couple of employees, really. So I've really enjoyed the workshops, I think they've been brilliant. Um, so just different bits and aspects, and you know, not everything's gonna be suitable for my scale of business. It's a you know, it's like a broad, you know, to this is the point we want to get to. But you know, you've got to cherry-pick which bits of information for me anyway. You we I've cherry-picked the bits of information and implemented which bits I think are gonna suit my business at the moment, but then as it grows, I know what I've learned I can apply at a later date as the company keeps growing, and I can make the changes as I need because I feel more confident in myself to make those changes rather than before, where I was panicking and hesitant, and I was a bit like a rabbit in the headlight to be honest, sometimes because I just I don't know what I'm gonna do. And sometimes, you know, the attitude is you just got to get your head down and crack on, and it'll all go fine. But there's only so many times you can you can do that, unfortunately. And that was to the point where I was at, and it was kind of like a bit of a blessing that you know the FNB put this course on because I thought that's something I need to really help me and basically to start again, scrap everything, just start again, and just you know, refocus everything and put stuff in place. So if things do go wrong again, at least I know I've got certain processes and systems and everything in place that I can fall back on and go, right, okay, well, we've got this, we're at a bit of an issue, what do we need to do? Which has definitely been a big help at the moment, really. It's been it's been invaluable, really.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I I I totally get that. And um, you know, the workshops didn't just happen, they you know, we we launched the first version, second version, third version. So every time we look, we do them, we improve them. And one thing we brought in, you know, in the last couple of months, which I think you you've done one session on, which is the board of peer meeting at the end.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. How did you feel about that? Good. Uh, because I think people need to be held accountable. I'm certainly someone that me personally, I need to be reminded and you know, and pushed and prompted to do things because life's that busy. You you kind of forget everyone forgets that, you know. I forget stuff on a daily basis. The lads ask, have you done this? And I'm like, oh god no. But you know, it you need reminder, you need to be held accountable because if you're not held accountable, things won't grow, and you won't set aside the time to grow that, you know, you know, to give it the time it needs to be able to grow the business. And you know, it's not just going to happen overnight or by spending one hour a week and stuff like that. You there needs to be a bit of time set aside so you can really sit down, focus, have a clear head to then go at your targets, what you've said, and to grow the company.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't I think I mean I brought that in specifically because some of the feedback I got was it's a bit overwhelming. There's a lot of things to change all at once, and I wanted to get to cut through that and say, look, you know, no, you don't have to change everything at once, you have to focus on these things you're committed to change. And and hopefully, in the process of the next few months, that's gonna have a huge impact on clients. So, so just looking at the workshops generally, I like to call it a eureka moment. Have you had any eureka moments where you thought I just didn't didn't think of that?
SPEAKER_01:The client's journey, certainly, was one now. Before we've come, I'd seen something from an architect that we started working with where they had a brochure. So I'd already, you know, made, got one in the works, and I'd sent it to a couple of really clients who we were working for at the time. I said, look, what do you think? Is there anything we could put in different and they were really they you know they helped and you know, suggested a few things, but then you know, I've took quite a lot of points off you, um, set a process up again. Processes like we we go on about a lot about in the workshops of how to do things from the start, and it's made a big difference. Clients are, you know, are really engaging, getting really involved with that, you know, the tick sheet before we start the job, stuff like that. It's made a big, big difference. And another one was the we did one of the Zoom calls with someone on a software system, which I thought Which one? Which which was the one live cost. Live cost, that was it. Live cost, okay, which I thought was you know, the live cost was a brilliant idea and something that in the in the new year we are definitely going to sit down with them and speak to them about and bring on board because as most people know, unless you've got someone sat in the office 20, you know, every day for you know eight till half four tracking and doing for a small business it's it's difficult to do that and to have the resources, you know, and everything, you need you know, plenty of staff to be able to do it. And that I thought was a brilliant, brilliant little software. An hour a day you could go on and just set everything up. If the lads need stuff, you can do it on your phone, they can ring you. Um so for small to mean your businesses, that was another like, wow, that's something that we need to we really need to bring on board to make things better. Um and there was a workshop we did where it was about employees and the scoring, not the scoring, but you rate them out of whatever, I think it was up to 150, so it's one to ten. Um, we're doing our first one next Friday with everyone.
SPEAKER_00:Wow, which which you committed to in the Board of Peers. Yes, I remember. So, yeah, so I mean that's a powerful way of looking at the employees. You know, had you ever looked at employees in that way before?
SPEAKER_01:No, my dad's very vocal uh sometimes on you know with things, but I think that's just the experience he has. Fortunate as well. With my mum, she's worked in a higher you know, business pressure eyes, manages a lot of people, over a hundred people that she manages. So I'm fortunate in that aspect, but sometimes I have to tone it down and bring it back to to what you know a building site is. And you know, none of my lads are over the age of 30 who I have currently, apart from one sorry now, but we're all young lads, we're all a similar age, which I think's great in a team because there's not big disparities in it. I've managed to I all the lads that are involved have all been trained by me or someone in the company. So they know the standards, they know how to work, which you know it's it's great that, but not before, no, going back to the points where it I no, I knew one that I've had to, you know, get rid of a couple of people and I knew one lad was an issue, but I didn't know how to go about it. Now, looking back, if I'd have had this system, I probably could have maybe tried to fix the issues sooner, and he might still be working for me. Now he might not have been, but I think on my my part, on my behalf, there is stuff that I could have probably stepped in sooner to try and stop it getting to the point where it got to, and maybe you know, we might still be working. He is still working in the trade, and to be fair, he's doing really well because I'm still in contact with him, so there was no bad relationship with him. But I think looking back, there's probably a lot I learned from that, and you know, things I would certainly do differently next time to try and preempt the to the the point where it got.
SPEAKER_00:That's good. I mean, that was the Build Your Five Year Business Workshop, and we score the whole team, uh, and people do make decisions after that about you know who's the right people to grow with the company, who who isn't, you know, and who perhaps might not be, you know, shouldn't be there. But you know, that's not what it's about, really. It's about supporting people to get better and understanding where you can support them. So, you know, it's I I think it's a great tool, and I see a lot of people kind of get lost out of it. What about programming projects then? Because something else I'm very keen on people doing. Has that changed?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the software for doing the ganchats, yeah. Um, yeah, we've implemented it, and it's something that I'm still learning a lot on personally, something that I'm trying to, while I'm learning, teach the teach the lads on as well to you know, to go on if they need to let me know. I think, like we've always said, communication is such a vital, vital tool between the lads. Now we've got multiple sites running, and the lads have to communicate with each other, you know, through WhatsApp or ring me or speak to each other about things, which you know they're getting better at. It's not like we said, it's not going to happen overnight. Things are gonna take time. But to be fair to the lads, they've really took it on board, they've taken the Gantt charts on board, the job schedules, the checkpoint days, which have been a really big one for stuff so things don't get missed on sites. We've now started to do two checkpoint days. If it's so you're talking about stock points, control stops, stock points, not checkpoints, stock points, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No checkpoints, stop points. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01:Stop points. Um, so we've now done two, one pre-plaster, so make sure the use relations are done, nothing's been missed, plumbing electrical-wise, and then the first one is anything like external, so a lot, make sure it's all siliconed outside, anything, make sure the roof, any broken tiles, guttering's improper, check the falls. But it's made a big difference because it's preempting a lot of the snagging that the customer doesn't need to mention and things like that. So the relationship with a customer has got better, and customers love to see it because they can see the progress.
SPEAKER_00:Hopefully, that rush at the end, but also that rush at the end where um you know you're trying to do the handover. Yeah, uh, I think that's uh definitely challenging if you know you don't use stop points as sign-off sheets and other things that we you know. But so, how do you feel about process now?
SPEAKER_01:Still, I think I still I've got a lot to learn, and I think I still got to adjust it to the way I work and you know, just tweak it a bit for to make it, but it's definitely becoming more and more part of my day, part of the business. But I do, you know, like things will take time, but I hopefully by the new year I'll I think I'll be you know fairly confident in what I've got set in place for the processes. If something goes wrong, a reporting process, and you know, it everything like that. I've I've I feel I think I'm feeling a lot more confident than I was saying six months ago when you first mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh my god, I don't know what I don't know where to start, I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00:The other thing I think people are often worried about coming into a group. Um, and and it's been mentioned to me from people, you know, I don't know about discussing things in front of other people. How did you find being in the group? And you know, were there any kind of really good moments where you got something from other people on the course?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the Manchester group, which I'm a part of, um, you know, I've met a lot of you know, brilliant, different people from different backgrounds. It's not just builders, there's been architects, roofers, you know, small companies to multi-million pound companies that are in the group. There's such a variety of different people in that group that, you know, if one of us doesn't know something, someone will know the answer, or they've got a good suggestion, or they can help you out. And that's another thing from working in the group. You can take it, you know, speak to them personally. You you create relationships and you know, create good, you know, contacts. And if you're in, you know, you're stuck, you need a hand, or you need a bit of advice, and you can ask anyone that in the group. And I have no issues working in a group. Uh, in my personal life, I'm a referee. I have to work in a team all the time, and like we say, communication and teamwork and helping each other out is a massive, massive skill that some people just like you say, they're scared to come in a group and open up. I have no problems opening up to you know anyone about any issues we've got because you for me, you gain more, you gain people's respect more if you're able to open up and show emotions and you know let them know your problems, let them know your feelings because people have a lot more respect, they feel more of a personal connection, and I think you can you can use that with a customer as well. That first meeting with a customer will you know will win you or not win you the job sometimes by how you communicate how you are, that relationship you build on that first time, and it's the same when you go into a group, you've just got to be, I think, open-minded and go in with you know, I'm just gonna see how it goes and get to know people, really. But for working in a group, the group's been brilliant for me, and I would recommend it to anyone.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I love the honesty, you know, people discussing profit and people discussing challenges and people discussing other people, and you know, I I just feel it uh it adds such a good dynamic to what I'm doing, and I think I've done a lot of one-to-one clients, and I and I work one-to-one with people, but the groups I think people get more out of, and I think it's it's quite an important part of it. So, looking ahead then, what's kind of changed in your outlook to growing your business and you know where you're going to be in five years' time? What's your vision like now? And and how do you feel that's changed?
SPEAKER_01:On the business side, it's changed dramatically, and I'm confident now that I'm able to grow, feel confident. Oh, yeah, I just I've always I'm always a confident person, and I've always been confident that you know I have certain points in my life where I'd like to be, um, certain stages that I want to be at by certain ages, you know, and things like that set myself little targets. But from a business side, I didn't I didn't know how I was gonna get there. Whereas as now I've got a bit more of a strategy, how I'm gonna get there, what I'm gonna do, targets to hit. Now, if I don't hit those targets by the set time, it's not an issue because I can just re-evaluate and readjust and alter them slightly. Things you know in life come up that are unexpected, that can't be predicted. And you've got to be able to be flexible and adjust to the times. And I think that's you know a massive one for businesses at the moment is being able to be flexible and adjust because things will change again, and I'd like to think that they're going to improve for you know a lot of small and medium businesses, and things will be better, um, and things will you know drastically you know, improve in a sense. The building trade at the moment is is booming, and hopefully, you know, we can keep going with the trend, and it does keep moving.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I'm I'm really pleased you said that because I get lots of people go, oh, you know, can't get any business, it we're having a hard time. And I can tell you now, looking at their business, it's their business, it's not the economy. You know, there's a shortage of good good builders. So, you know, if you are really struggling in this climate, you've got something wrong with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was that was going to be my next point. That I I personally have a lot of people messaging me asking about apprenticeships, especially in the area we live in Manchester Stockport, and it's a separate point altogether going, but I think for a lot of small builders, they're hesitant to hire apprentices, really hesitant. And I know there's a lot of other stuff, politics and everything that go with it because of the wages, you've got to pay them and everything like that. But essentially, at the end of the day, if we don't bring apprentices through, there isn't going to be enough quality quality tradesmen in the future, and you know, it's on the small builders and medium builders to take on more apprentices to train them because otherwise there isn't going to be enough skilled people to go around. There's big shortages of skilled tradesmen at the moment, and a lot of the you know, you look, you know, we've looked been looking for people and found it really difficult. And in the end, I've I've taken on another apprentice. We've got three at the moment, two are just finishing the level two, going on to the level three, and we've got another lad started his is his first year. But I think that is a big point in the in the the building industry, which isn't spoken about enough, is the lack of young builders coming through.
SPEAKER_00:Now, in my area, there's well I think I think I think the point with that, and I think people get this wrong, you hear that you know, millennials or you know, people who are growing up now don't want to come into the building trade. That's just not true. In fact, what's happening is they're getting places at college, and the government are actually really investing in colleges and people getting trained, but then they can't get jobs or they can't get apprenticeship apprenticeships to kind of grow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So they can't do anything after college and they get a bit disheartened. And that is the problem. There is plenty of work going about, but that those that are good are so busy they feel they haven't got time to train apprentices. Yeah. And I totally get that, but you know, the government need to wake up to the way they fund that as well. I think it's you know, we we need to get more people actually working in the industry, just not trained in the industry. And I think that's quite important.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So just going back to the construction success program, I've always been astounded actually how many people I speak to that don't go on it. I mean, I you know, it uh it was fully funded, it's now 70% funded. Uh, and we're hoping that it's going to become a year programme funded by the CRTB. We should know this month. I'm so quite excited about that. But I would say if everyone I speak to, most people one in 10 sign up. What would you say to someone who's on the fence about signing up or saying they haven't got enough time to sign up?
SPEAKER_01:I was I was similar to that. It's for for in Manchester, it's one Friday a month. Now you can to you know to grow your business, it's 70% funded. You you can't when I did it, it was 100. For me, it was a no-brainer. One Friday a month, I can leave the the lads, the staff on site to run things for one Friday. It's not, you know, the end of the world. Yeah, sometimes you can't make it because of certain things when the dates are bucked up. But it's for me, it's a no it's been a no-brainer for growing the company and for me getting a bit of my social life, my personal life back to spend with my family. Um, for anyone who's got a young family, they feel like they're in a rut or they're stuck or anything like that. What you're gonna lose is my my motto is what you're gonna lose. You do the course, you're gonna learn things, you're gonna take things from it. Yet some things you might not agree with, or you think that you know it's a I don't I can't implement that at the moment, but things change, but at least you've got an understanding and like a sort of a base understanding of that that you can use in the future. And for what for one day a month, it it doesn't everyone's got time. They've got they can take a day off to go and you know, go shopping or something with the missus. Why can't you just have one day off to go and learn, go back and be be educated and sit in a you know, it's not a classroom, we we do it. We have we sit in a hotel conference room and chat and have a coffee, and and you know, it's not just learning all day. We have a chat and speak about different things, speak about business with each other, you know, speak about personal life as well, because it's a closed little room you can express and let off a bit of steam if things at work. And you know, like we said before, if you've got any problems, you can speak to other people who have been through those problems, who have got experience, and they can help you. For me, it's it's just an excuse because they can't be asked doing it basically. When for one day a month, it's it's a it's a no-gre it for me. It it it doesn't, it's not an excuse, really.
SPEAKER_00:It's just they can't be bothered and well it is exactly that, it's an excuse, isn't it? And I think you know the challenge is when it wasn't funded, it was a lot of money, and and people you know struggled to afford it some of them. Yeah, now it's funded, it's not. So the only excuse is time, and it is an excuse, and people feel that they're just gonna battle through it. And I see this a lot, and I and I see a lot of companies that unfortunately fail. They then fail because 40% of all construction companies don't make a profit, so they're not they're working for salary or less than salary, and one in every one in five construction businesses go bust every year. So I absolutely see why. Because you know, people just try and work harder and longer hours, and they don't get control, and they don't understand how liberating process is. It sounds like process is like gonna, you know, keep you following that process, and you've got no flexibility, and that's what we got. It's completely opposite, it's it liberates you because you could do things so quickly when you're following a process.
SPEAKER_01:It gives you more, I totally agree with you, it gives you more time. You know, I'm not afraid to say we were close to going bankrupt two years ago through multitude of things just going on, and it just like got on top of me, spoke to some close family, you know, because I bottled it up and let it go, didn't tell my wife, didn't tell, you know, because I didn't want her to worry and panic what was going on. And it wasn't the fact that we didn't have money coming in, things had just gone on, and you know, things that were a bit out of my control had happened on certain jobs with other trades and you know, things like that. And it just spiraled. Once it gets going, it's like a snowball effect, it just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And the best thing I ever did was go and speak to my dad. Because my dad's been through it again. My dad's been through it, he's he was a similar situation, and the best thing I ever did was speak to him because as soon as I spoke to him, that weight off my shoulders felt unreal. And then I could, then we could I you know I planned and did something about it. And since then, the company's just grown and grown and grown because I sat down and you know, had a a proper a proper chat and said, you know, said where I was up to and where I was going wrong, and the The most powerful thing you can do is admit where you've made a mistake and try and not do it again or you know put things in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was correct that side the most powerful thing you can do is realize that you've got a problem.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so our industry is very good about you know i they're very good at sticking the head in the sand. Just one of those things. So anyway, Dan, really good speaking to you. Thank you ever so much for uh taking some time to to chat to us. Pleasure as always. Hopefully, uh I'll be seeing you later later in a couple of weeks' time anyway. Yep. But hopefully, you know, this podcast can make a difference to someone who's on the fence and really does need the help to move forward. Yeah, I hope it does, and I hope people come on board. Wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for listening to Bust and Beyond with Robin Hayhurst. Be sure to tune in next time and visit his website at robinhayhurst.com.