Not a Walk in the Park: Angel's Ketamine Story (Part 1)

(TW: Suicide) Listener Angel describes working with ketamine after many devastating personal tragedies. For her, ketamine is a lifeline. 

After a lifetime of traumas, she describes feeling like "one of those people who couldn't be helped." Thankfully, ketamine - together with therapy, writing, and solid family support - has led her to feel lighter. Now, she says, she can coexist with her memories.

Like many of us, Angel has had spiritual experiences with ketamine, leaving her feeling divinely protected and loved. As someone trying to heal from grief, trauma, and serious mental illness, I learned a lot from this conversation. Angel's story encompasses the gravity, joy, and profound meaning that some of us experience once we start working with ketamine.

This conversation will come out in two parts. Part Two will drop next week. Subscribe to Ketamine Insights on any podcast platform to get the next episode (and future episodes) automatically. If you're new to podcasts, email us and we'll show you how. (Really!)

If you're able, please subscribe via Patreon (Patreon.com/ketamineinsights) or Substack (mollydunn.substack.com)

You can always reach us at ketamineinsights@gmail.com

Transcripts are available at ketamineinsights.com

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If you or someone you know is experiencing a mental health crisis, reach out. Get help. You are never all alone. In the US, you can dial 988. 

Transcript

[00:02] Theme Song: She's sometimes sad. She's sometimes happy. She's doing things to make her life less crappy, trying a treatment that's new on the scene. Let's sit back and talk about ketamine.

[00:21] Molly: Welcome to Ketamine Insights, a podcast about mental health and psychedelic medicine. If you are new to the show, you should know that we are not trained experts. The people on the show are patients like me with lived experience of mental illness and ketamine therapy. Second, a while back, I decided to cut corners and I switched to a cheaper recording platform. I'm disabled and money is tight, so it was worth a shot, but it didn't work out. As you can hear in this interview, the audio cuts in and out a few times and I sincerely apologize, which leads me to this. It costs money to run this show. If you're able, please chip in by subscribing on Patreon or substack. You can do that by going to substack.com or patreon.com and just searching for ketamine insights. We deeply appreciate it. Also, we're in the process of creating transcripts for every episode. You can find them at our website, ketaminsights.com. Okay, now I'm really happy to share this interview with you. Angel and I had such a wonderful conversation. It lasted about 90 minutes, so it'll come out in two parts. The second half of the interview will drop next week. Her story is beautiful and powerful, and.

[01:43] Molly: I was really grateful to hear the wisdom she's gained along her journey with ketamine therapy. Here is my conversation with Angel.

[01:56] Molly: Hello, everyone. I'm so happy to welcome Angel to the show today. Angel, how are you doing?

[02:02] Angel: I'm wonderful. Thank you for having me.

[02:03] Molly: Thanks so much for being here. I'm so happy that you reached out and that you're able to join us today. I just want to set the tone to begin with and say that we really, because of my own mental health struggles, prioritize the comfort and health of our hosts and guests. So as we go along, Angel, please feel free to interrupt me at any point, ask questions as they come up. We'll skip any topics you'd rather not talk about, and we can also pause the recording at any time.

[02:36] Angel: Okay, sounds good. Thank you.

[02:38] Molly: Yeah. Okay, first of all, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Just where you are, your age, any other kind of general background that might be helpful for the listeners?

[02:48] Angel: Well, I am 53 years old and I live in Vermont and I'm the mom of two amazing women. And I have grandchildren, a grandson, and a granddaughter, and I have just really devoted my whole life to my family. And I help my husband with our construction business in the office, so I managed to stay very busy.

[03:18] Molly: Sounds like it. Wow. Okay, great. I was thinking, like, for the bulk of the interview, instead of kind of asking you a bunch of leading questions, which I can do if you'd prefer, but I was thinking, instead of asking you a bunch of leading questions, I was wondering if you could just kind of tell us the story of your mental health challenges and where ketamine fits in for you, and then I'll ask follow up questions when you're done.

[03:44] Angel: Oh, that's fine.

[03:45] Molly: Okay, great. And please take as much time as you'd like. We love a story.

[03:50] Angel: Okay. So I am the oldest of four children and had a very complicated childhood. There's a lot of religious trauma, and my parents just had a lot of issues, and it was not an ideal environment for four children, but we were close siblings, and being the oldest, I was kind of the second mom. I've struggled with depression my whole life because of some traumas that happened in my early teen years and persisted. But I really drew inwards and didn't have the support or the protection that I so deserved. And so I swore to myself that when I had my own family, I would be the greatest protector, and my kids would have me 100%. And so I held true to that promise. And unfortunately, traumas don't go away. They follow you. And so into adulthood, problems just get bigger and harder. I ended up having dealing with a stalker who actually created a lot of the trauma in my teen years. I've been dealing with that since about 2012. And then in 2017, February 22 of 2017, my brother killed himself. And that brought me to my knees, and he was only 41. And the kindest, most gentlest, wonderful soul you'll ever know in a man. And I just couldn't believe that this beautiful artist was not on this planet anymore. And I walked around for a year saying, I don't understand. And eleven months after my brother died, my baby sister died of what they call a slow suicide. So she died of alcoholism, and she was only 38. And that was very hard for me because we had spent the last eleven months talking every day and sharing our grief over our brother. And then in 2020, my mom died on mother's day, in her sleep. And then in 2021, my dad killed himself as well. So in four years, all four of them were gone, and I could barely find my way to my feet. Before another one was dying. And in between all this chaos, I'm dealing with life's struggles. There's always stress when you're in business for yourself and dealing with a stalker and the court systems and restraining orders and doing everything I can to protect me and my family. And it was just sheer chaos. And I crashed and burned. I just simply lost sight of life, and none of it made sense anymore. And I had just lost my will. And I did end up having to be in the hospital for three weeks. And in fact, I was in the hospital for five days of that three weeks when I got the call that my dad had killed himself. So it was divine intervention. I was placed there to keep me safe. I feel like somebody somewhere loves me a lot, because had I been home, things would have turned out differently. In this time period, I was trying different medications. Medications weren't working, or the side effects were far too dangerous for me. And so I could never find what I needed. And I sat in my doctor's office one day having a conversation with her, saying, I feel like I've hit the end of the road. I don't know what more to do, but I feel like I'm one of those people that can't be helped. And she said, well, you know, there is ketamine, and not a lot is really known about it. She said, I'm not very well educated, and it's not done locally, so you would have to travel. I can look up some information for you if you'd like. And I said, well, I don't know. That sounds kind of scary, but, yeah, okay. And a month later, I went back for my appointment, and she still hadn't gotten the information together, simply because she'd forgotten. And so I pushed it to the back burner and said, you know what? This is how I'm doomed to live. I just need to hang on. And so the interesting thing is, in the meantime, my youngest, who is 24, said, mom, I'm on TikTok. I want to set you up on TikTok. And I said, yeah, I'm on Facebook. That's enough. I don't want any more social media. And she said, no, but I want you to see my material. I want you to see my platform. And I said, ok. So she is a psychology student, and she's actually in the master program right now. And I said, well, I'm interested in seeing what you have to say. So I had only been on TikTok for days, and someone popped across my newsfeed on TikTok. That does ketamine. And what I find interesting about that is I did not type it in the search bar. It was something that was mentioned in passing by my doctor a while ago, and it never entered my thought process again. And so here's this woman saying how she's had such great success with ketamine and it gave her her life back and she is overcoming trauma and becoming her better version of self. And I immediately sent her a message and said, I need help. And she so patiently took the time to explain to me what ketamine is about. And so then I went into Google and I did some searching, and just so happens that our state capital, in the same town as our state capital, I should say, there is a ketamine clinic, and that would require me traveling an hour and a half. But I said, oh, you know, I think I'm going to call him. And so we played phone tag back and forth a little bit and we set up an appointment and I chickened out and canceled. And the poor man, he called me back and I happened to be near my phone and I answered and he said, so do you want to set something up, Angel? And I said, I'm just so scared. And he said, well, I can't think of anything more scary than untreated depression. And I paused and I said, please, let's set something up today. So the following week, I had my first appointment and I actually did the consult. And he said, can you come back tomorrow and we'll start your treatment? And so I did. I was there the next day. And he does the injections because it's more cost effective. And he has found that it's more accessible to people if he can keep the cost down. And so the interesting thing is I had the injection and you had the out of body kind of experience. And when I was done, he came in the room and he said, so how do you feel? And I said, I can't explain it, but I feel lighter. And he said, yes. And he smiled so big. And he's like, that's exactly what people say with ketamine is. It lifts that heavy load of depression. And I was so amazed that. And I had to do the initial. I think it was like two, four, six. It was eight treatments in a month. And I did the usual, like, after the third injection, I was laying on my couch when I got home sobbing all night. And I thought, oh, my God, it's not working like all the medications, all the treatments. And I googled it and it said, it's very common, especially around the third treatment, to have a rise of emotions. And so I thought, okay, continue on. And after that month, I thought, wow, I think that I have a chance. I think I can do this. I think that I want to stay on this planet. And I kept going back for boosters. At first, it was more often than it is now. But the interesting thing I noticed about ketamine is with the trauma in my life. The ketamine removes me from the trauma. So I have noticed when I am in treatment, I'm always floating above the trauma. And I can see it like it's an ant on the ground. And it looks so minuscule, so unimportant. And I think I have logical thought during treatment. And I always think to myself, oh, it's just that. It's just that thing that happened. It's just that. And, oh, this is just life. That's all. It's just life. So for me, it removes the element of everything being earth shattering and too serious and all consuming. It just removes that element for me so that I can coexist with these memories. But these memories don't rule me. And that was the thing that I noticed right away. Also, the very first thing was removing the suicidal ideation. It completely wiped it from my hard drive.

[14:47] Molly: Wow.

[14:48] Angel: I just had no desire to go on with any plans or notions. My poetry even changed how I wrote and how I journaled. And I thought, my goodness, I think that this is a miracle. It's something as simple as ketamine. It saved my life. And I just wish it was more accessible to everyone who suffers because it feels like the missing link, you know what I mean? And the thought processes, the connecting the dots. So a big problem for me, with all the layers of trauma in my life is that I've always felt sad and I've always felt less than or not enough or very broken. And I never knew why. Like, I had the memories of this person doing that or this happening, but I didn't have the ability to articulate why these things were affecting me the way they were. And ketamine changed that as well. I could literally feel my brain lighting up and connecting dots. And even though I'm a fastidious writer and I write so much poetry, for somebody who uses words the way that I do, I could not articulate the feelings that I had to live with. And ketamine opened the floodgates. And I started thinking, wow, when that person did that to me, well, that was so toxic. And the reason it felt yucky is because I was being manipulated. And it's these connecting of the dots that change things for me, too, because it changed how I looked at myself, like, oh, you're smart. Look, you figured that out? Oh, yeah. You're worthy. And it changed my self esteem. It created a self esteem for me where there wasn't one. And a quick example is my two daughters are the two that are invested in getting me to my ketamine treatments and bringing me home and getting me settled and making sure I'm okay. They are investing in me, which is just a blessing. And we were riding home one day after an injection, and I looked at my youngest, and I was keeping very quiet, but I was looking out the window, very teary, and I looked at her and I said, hey, sage, nobody is born knowing how to love or how to hate. Did you know that? And she just kind of, you know, this is a psychology student. And she just kind of looked at me shocked because, I mean, I'm coming out of ketamine. And she's like, yeah, mom. And I said, we're only born with basic needs. That's all we can do. We know when we're hungry, when we need to be changed or comforted or we have a gas pain. I said, but we don't know emotion. We don't know how to love or hate. That's taught. We are taught how to love. We are taught how to hate. And she just nodded and looked at me kind of wide eyed, like, okay. And it continued that way for the first year. I've been in ketamine treatment for two years now. And now the way it works for me is I travel back in time, and I am addressing all the ways that I have been abused or misused and getting rid of toxic relationships and drawing boundaries everywhere. And I am holding those boundaries true. I'm holding everyone accountable because I'm worth it. And just because I took it for these last 53 years doesn't mean I'm going to take it anymore. And that's so empowering. I wake up in the morning and go, wow, look at you go. You're so much stronger, and you are worthy. And all these changes because of ketamine, that is the thing that changed everything for me. And it's interesting how it works, too, because my daughter, Brandy, she's the one who's been bringing me a lot more. We climbed in the truck after. Actually, it was my last injection, and I had had an injection, and there's a lot of trauma around my dad. And I looked at her and I said, hey, you remember my dad when you were a kid? Yeah, mom. Did you know him when he used to wear that red fell hat? And she said, no, mom, I don't think I did. And I said, I don't know where that memory came from, but it surfaced in ketamine. And she said, well, that's interesting. She said, I guess it surfaced for a reason. There's something about that that you identified with, and it's interesting how things show up. Somebody showed up in my ketamine treatment as a pile of dirt because they were so nasty to me my whole life. And so in my treatment, I said, oh, that's so and so. I'm staying away from that. And I always share my experiences with my daughters. They're always very open and interested in the trip, so to speak. And I'm amazed at how things come. I've had spiritual experiences that have healed me spiritually, and I so desperately needed spiritual healing. And every time I would try to hire a therapist, the first thing I would say is, I need spiritual healing. I'm suffering. Please help me. I've exhausted everything that I can get my hands on myself, and I don't know what more to do. And the ketamine really started bringing me spiritual experiences, and that changed a lot of inner dialogue for me. It's like ketamine knows what needs to be addressed, and it finds the area in your brain or your psyche and addresses it or opens the door. So you can either step in and look at it and say, I know what you are. I know who you are, but you can't hurt me anymore. And you can either close the door or leave it open to live with it. And that is how I describe ketamine, is that even though I'm in therapy and I take good care of myself and I do meditation and I do Reiki and shamanism, the ketamine opens the doors that nobody had the key to. And that when those doors swing open, then I'm free to be in that space and take care, clean that room out. And I feel as though, because of the trauma that I have experienced in my life, I tucked a lot of stuff in those rooms and closed the door. So there was a lot that my conscious mind didn't have access to. And as time marches on, more and more is coming out. And the fortunate thing is I am so dedicated to my healing that I have the tools to deal with it. And every time I start to feel a slide, I know when I need to hit the reset button. And that's what I call ketamine. And so I'll say to one of my daughters, hey, food isn't tasting good to me. I'm wanting to sleep a lot, but I can't sleep all night, and I'm crying more, and I really just don't want to eat. Okay, let's get you scheduled. And then the reset button is hit, and I'm good to go. It's just an investment in me. I have to take that time. It is. Part of my self care is getting me to treatment. And I feel as though the ketamine and it's different for everyone, because now I have access to people, thanks to social media, who are in ketamine treatment, and it's different for everyone. But for me, I feel as though, because I've lost so many people, I've had the ability to have these spiritual experiences with them where they are now, that have brought me healing. Without the ketamine, I would not have that kind of access. And there are people, naysayers, who will say, oh, ketamine, it just changes what's going on in your brain so that healing can begin. And I do agree with that. However, we are very complex beings, and we are energy, and energy just never dies. It doesn't go away. And I've had so many experiences in treatment that can't just be excused. And so I find myself journaling a lot of what happens, because people just, if you're not in ketamine treatment, then you just think that, oh, you're hallucinating. But it's something so much deeper than that. And I feel, my personal opinion is people who are depressed or have experienced a lot of trauma or any sort of mental illness, really, there is something inside of us that requires something more than just what you see with your eyes. And the doctor that has the ketamine clinic that I go to, he told me one day, I firmly believe that depressed people are the heavy thinkers. And he said, I've just had so many patients that I feel as though you are the ones that do all the deep thinking. And I would have to agree with that, because we have been left in our mind for so long and have had to learn how to survive so much, so quietly. And so in doing that, you do get stuck in thought and trying to figure things out and being hyper vigilant or being the people pleaser or whatever is required for you to exist. And they're not necessarily healthy coping skills. But without proper treatment, nobody really has healthy coping skills. Right? So ketamine brought me healthy coping skills alongside therapy. I mean, I am in therapy. And so that's amazing, too, because I can have therapy a day or two after ketamine and share my experience. And she always will remember and say, oh, hey, Angel, remember a while ago you said this and this, and I just grab my head and go, oh, my gosh, I forgot about that. So while my conscious mind forgot about it, it was still tucked away in there and the ketamine accessed it. And so I really find amazing how it just works on an individual basis, because when I speak to a friend of mine, the woman who actually helped me get going on my ketamine treatments, her sessions are different from mine because we're all so individual. And I love talking to people who are in ketamine therapy and kind of sharing notes. And I do do the at home lozenges between my injections. I try to do them weekly because I feel like I can stretch out my time between injections a little more if I do that. And that has been such a positive experience for me in adding that extra layer because I can be at home on my couch or in bed and be comfortable and receive treatment under the watchful eye of my daughter and then journal about it or nap or cry or do something artistic or go for a walk. And I don't have to do the car ride home because the car ride home is treacherous. I just have to say the hour and a half ride home after injection is treacherous. But I will do it, and I will continue to do it, and I'll do it any day that I need it because ketamine saved my life. I can't really. I was trying to think of something that I could share with you about ketamine itself. What I find interesting about it is I don't know how much you are. I listen to all your podcasts, so I don't know how much you are into someone sharing an actual experience when they were in ketamine.

[29:43] Molly: Oh, yeah, go for it, definitely, if you feel like it.

[29:46] Angel: Okay. Well, this is the interesting thing. My current therapist isn't the one that I had a year ago, and the one that I had a year ago also was buddhist, and I absolutely adored her. And so I told her, look, I'm going for ketamine, so I'll see you next week. And the following week, we had our session, and we were getting ready to end session, and I said, oh, my gosh, I said, I feel like you're going to think I'm so just off this planet, but I have to tell you something that happened to me during my last ketamine treatment. I was experiencing something very traumatic, and it was really upsetting me. And I could feel my heart rate increasing, my breathing was increasing, everything. I was getting very tense. I was very emotional. And I said, all of a sudden, this woman appeared in front of me with. Her skin was red, her hair was red. And my logic mind said to me, well, isn't red usually associated with the devil because of my upbringing? And immediately I dismissed that thought. And I realized that she was there to help me. And so she gently took me and moved me behind the reads. And the reads are just where I'm usually placed during something traumatic in ketamine. I'm usually swooped up either by mother Nature or the breeze. And this time it was this red skinned woman. She picked me up and placed me behind the reeds. And I instantly felt better. And she just kind of whispered the wind towards me. And I just sat there behind the reeds, almost being like a part of the plant life, but watching it in the wind. And it was absolutely magical. Nothing short of. And I shared this experience with my therapist, and I said, I know that just sounds just totally unbelievable. And she said, well, my goodness, that sounds like Red Tara. And I said, I don't even know what that is because I have no knowledge of the buddhist beliefs or teachings. And she said, we're going to end session, but I need you to go google Red Tara. And when I did, and I googled images, that's exactly who I saw.

[32:36] Molly: Wow.

[32:37] Angel: And I have no exposure to these things. I don't know anyone who practices Buddhism. So that was life changing to me. And then I looked into her. What he's there for? And it's to help people with their healing and to protect people, and particularly women who feel rejected because she experienced rejection in her relationship. And I sobbed because that is common. How would my brain know to take this and to place her in a moment of trauma to rescue me from something that she commonly rescues people from. There's no way for me to know these things. It just happened. And it just so happened. Therapist at the time, like I said, was buddhist. And somehow the goddess knew that I would relay this experience and my therapist would help me unravel it. So I came to the belief in the last two years that I am divinely protected and loved, and that's empowering and that's healing. And so that's something that I say to people, my daughters, I will say, remember, you're divinely loved. It changes my language, it changes my core, it changes my belief system. All for the positive, all for the healing. And now, as I said, I'm practicing race and learning shamanism and going, you know, I think I'm going to take some courses and there's all healing taking place inside of me where now I think, oh, I think I can forgive those people. I don't love them, but I can give them and I can with my life. So there's just so many milestones for me and so many experiences and I will just be doing something just very trivial around the house and I'll get an aha moment out of nowhere. Just something will connect in my brain and I will say, oh my gosh, amazing how ketamine even. Well, after your treatments, once the treatments begin, and if you stick with them, the healing continues on. I know the first 72 hours are really important for the neuroplasticity, but if you stay on top of healing, doesn't just stop after that 72 hours, it continues on. As long as you're feeding your brain positive things and you're being diligent about changing the thought processes that made you sick or kept you sick, I should say. And that is something that I've really been noticing in the last six months, is that now my brain is changing the way I think about things and memories that I have that are really bad. I think, wow, you know what I learned from that? I pulled this lesson and that lesson and I'm a better person for it. And so, not that I don't think anyone deserves anything bad happened to them, but if you get trapped in that moment, mental illness is going to take root and it's by no fault of our own. It's just something crappy that happens. And finding my way has changed the course of the rest of my life. That is a change in and of itself. Just that going from woe was me. I'm 53 and I've suffered all these years and the youth in my life is gone. But now. Yeah, well, okay, you may not be young, but you are older and wiser and you've got so much experience under your belt and now you can add ketamine to that and who knows how that's going to play a role in my life. I've so many amazing experiences. Some were not traumatic.

[37:32] Molly: Sorry, I'm going to stop you just for a second because you're cutting in and out a little bit and I don't want to miss anything that you're saying. I'm sorry to have to interrupt you like that. You were saying that the doctor. I couldn't hear if you were saying, he is in the room with you, or he's right down the hall, and he comes in if something is alarming.

[37:51] Angel: So he is down the hall, and he is keeping an eye on my breathing and my pulse. And there was one day in particular that I encountered something that was a big trauma to me, and I just started shaking and sobbing. And so, because of the traumas I've experienced, he allows my daughter to stay in the room with me under the condition that things are kept very quiet. As soon as my daughter noticed I was in trouble, he ran so fast. They were at my side simultaneously, and one of them on each side and just kind of shaking me out of it. Are you all right? Are you all right? And I said, it's just such a yucky room. And the doctor said, this is the same room. You've always been an Angel. And I said, you don't understand. It's such a yucky room. And so then he just kind of patted my arm, and he said, let's just take a break, and I'm going to sit down here. And you can talk, or you can cry, or you can do whatever you need to do. And so I did. I cried for a good long time. And then I just started talking about the things that I was seeing in the ketamine trip. And what I find amazing is that it shook me to my core, that experience. So much so that I thought that I was shaking, convulsing, so to speak. I mean, I thought that the chair, the recliner I was in was shaking. But when he came in the room, I said, stop the shaking. Please help me stop. And he said, you're not shaking. And my daughter said, mom, you're not shaking. But it shook me inside. And after that, I never encountered that trauma again. I saw it, I dealt with it, and my brain moved on. And now I can remember that session and smile, because that was something that I've had to carry around with me for a very long time, and I don't have to carry it anymore. I was able to leave it in that session. And there's just things that happen to us sometimes in life that we cannot articulate to others for one reason or another. The ketamine makes it so you don't have to. I feel like I'm just sitting here talking about myself.

[40:47] Molly: It's so interesting. I relate to so much of what you're saying, even some of the specifics I haven't really spoken to anyone else who describes the way that you describe is very similar to how I feel about relationships with people who have passed changing because of my ketamine experiences. And I feel very, just sure now. Like you said, energy never dies. I feel very confident that there's a new way in which I'm with these people. And I always feel the need to kind of put in a caveat and say, I'm not saying everything is for the best. No, that's not the point. It's not to say, like, oh, well, if that hadn't happened, then I wouldn't be who I am today. No, I'm not trying to say that, but I am trying to say it's not as bad as I thought it was.

[41:56] Angel: Yeah.

[41:59] Molly: They're still around, and my relationship with them, I would even say with my grandmother in particular, who I cared for full-time as she was passing away. My relationship with her feels better. It feels like we're kind of more peaceful or more… I don't know. It feels like there's a different dynamic that is very enriching for me in my day to day. And I don't know how else to put it, but I don't know. Yeah, just more peaceful because of the changes that either the experiences that I've had feeling her presence in the ketamine trip itself, or the realizations also, that come. Like you're saying, a week later, you're washing the dishes and you realize something. The realizations that, like, oh, maybe her story isn't what I imagined. It's this other thing that's a little brighter. Both are completely feasible. We don't know each other's stories 100%. Nobody ever can. And it just feels like, in some ways, opening the door to. It's funny because it's the past. You think it's set right, but it feels sometimes like you're opening the door to a different interpretation of the past, or you're putting the past in the past.

[43:30] Angel: Yes.

[43:31] Molly: Like, the relationship with your past can change really profoundly.

[43:36] Angel: I agree. And it was in my discussion with someone not too long ago, I said, a problem with me is that I'm just such a soft hearted person, empathic, and I spend my life trying to understand things I don't understand. Why would somebody do that? I don't understand why things are the way they are. Well, it's just like you said, for some reason, going in and having these experiences, suddenly I don't really need to understand why they did it. It just happened. And I don't know what happened in their life. It takes me a step further into, gee, I wonder what happened in her life to make her behave so badly and take it out on me. What was inside of her crying or screaming so loudly that she had to lash out at somebody. And it does. It takes you kind of a step further. So it kind of takes the blame, the self blame. Or again, I feel like ketamine is about removing us from our bad experiences or our traumas or our pain, so that we can be up here floating in the sky like a leaf and look down on it and go, oh, wow. Yeah, that was bad. But it's really small because look out there. Look how big life is. Life is so big. And then look at that moment in time. It's so minuscule. And I'm not trying to downplay trauma because, boy, I've had a lifetime of it. But that is the new perspective that ketamine gives you, is, wow, I am an energy being and I'm way up here and I've done so much growth and healing. Yeah, I see that trauma. It was a moment in time. Sad that it impacted me for so many years, but, wow, now look at me. I'm up here. I've ascended to this place of healing. And I agree with you about the experiences with dead loved ones because you just can't make this stuff up. I don't have that kind of brain. I never have. I've never been into Sci-Fi or everything like that. I think, well, it's just too unreal. If it's not real, I'm not interested. And that sounds bizarre coming from a spiritual person. But having said that, I've had some very profound, very profound experiences that I wouldn't be able to make up.

[46:30] Molly: Yeah, I feel like there's a. I used to joke when I first became familiar with ketamine. I think it was, or maybe it was even before I ever tried it, that when people drink alcohol, it's like just a joke. Like, you make bad decisions, right? Like your perception is skewed and you do stupid things. But somehow when your perception is skewed by something like ketamine, you feel like you've unleashed or unveiled the secrets of the universe. And it's silly, but I stand by it. It's actually true. It hits so different. There's a feeling of groundedness and truth to it and it also helps the rest of your life make sense.

[47:21] Angel: It does. And it doesn't matter where ketamine comes into your life, in your timeline. Whether you're younger or older, it changes something inside of you that has brought you so much pain and created a pattern of behaviors that continued that pain. And it does it quickly. I started noticing differences immediately and remaining very devoted to this treatment. I'm constantly amazed at the growth and the change. And so I feel as though I would urge anybody at any point in your life, it doesn't matter where you are, what you've been through, to do what you can to find the ketamine treatment, because it's life altering and it's life saving. And the people that I know in my circle who do receive ketamine, we all say the same thing. Yeah, but it saved my life because I was simply done. And that's a very scary place to be.

[48:37] Molly: Thank you everyone for sharing your time with us. Please subscribe to Ketamine Insights on whatever platform you're using so that you'll automatically receive the second half of this interview when it drops next week. If you'd like to come on the show, email us.

[48:53] Molly: We are always interested to hear stories from patients like Angel, from loved ones, from friends, from anyone with experience in the psychedelic medicine space. You can email us at ketaminsights@gmail.com. Finally, why not chip in and help us pay for a better recording platform?

[49:11] Molly: You can subscribe via Patreon or substack, go to either website and just search for ketamine insights. This podcast is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Molly Dunn. Our theme song is by Solid State Symphony. We'll see you soon. And in the meantime, remember to advocate for yourself, and never ration your joy.

[49:37] Theme Song: You she's sometimes sad. She's sometimes happy. She's doing things to make her life less crappy, trying a treatment that's new on the scene. Let's sit back and talk about ketamine. Close.