18 years 6 months and 18 days to Exit | Alejandro Perez, S3E7

Alejandro Pérez bootstrapped Komet Sales, a cloud-based ERP and e-commerce platform for the floral industry, from his parents' house to a successful private equity exit, 18 years, 6 months, and 18 days later. No VC, no hype, no shortcuts. Just a guy who fell in love with an "unsexy industry" and built something real by creating value.

In this episode, Alejandro and I go deep on what it takes to build a business the right way and walk away from it without losing yourself in the process. We talk about the six years he spent running an agency making no money, chasing money, before realizing money was the wrong goal. We get into the years bootstrapping Komet, the moment an acquirer told him his company was undervalued because he wasn't paying himself a real salary, and why he hired a banker for the sale when he didn't need to. We also talk about how he handed over his CEO title to an outside operator without feeling attached, why he put the majority of his exit into Bitcoin, and how two heart attacks reshaped his relationship with time and success.

Alejandro has a pure abundance mindset. He's the most positive person I've ever met, and by the end of the conversation, you'll understand where that comes from.

This is a conversation about building something quietly, selling it well, and staying unshaken no matter what happens. If you've ever wondered what a clean, grounded founder journey actually looks like, this one's for you.

_______

(01:31) How he priced his classmates' papers at 14
(06:29) At 21, he just wanted to build, not monetize
(07:35) Six years of chasing money before the reframe
(08:35) How Komet Sales almost got named after a cleanser
(15:00) Starting Komet after his divorce, at his parents' house
(19:48) How long it took to find product-market fit
(22:14) The acquirer call that changed how he paid himself
(25:07) The dream number he never expected to get
(27:04) The Vistage moment that changed how he saw his company
(31:36) Deciding to sell during a mushroom trip in the Amazon
(35:14) Why he hired a banker instead of selling directly
(38:00) 18 years, 6 months, 18 days to sell
(38:58) The Sunday test for loving your job
(39:46) Life-changing money, then straight into Bitcoin
(42:11) Why an abundance mindset made him more money
(46:06) A year traveling the world with his son
(48:22) The Bitcoin inheritance platform he's building next
(50:38) Building for fun vs building to make payroll
(53:04) The CEO lab coat and letting go of identity
(54:44) Two heart attacks, converted into rocket fuel

Show notes:

• Find show notes of each episode on ProfitLed.fm. 

Connect with our host:

• Follow Melissa on LinkedIn where she shares stories & lessons from her founder journey weekly.
• Connect with Melissa at melissakwan.com and subscribe to  'your founder next door', Melissa's weekly newsletter on what it's like to build a company without an abundance of resources and friends in high places.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Our guest today is Alejandro Perez, the founder of Comet Sales, a cloud-based ERP and e-commerce platform for the floral industry that he bootstrapped from his parents' house to a successful private equity exit in 18 years, six months, and eighteen days. Alejandro built one of those quiet real businesses you almost never hear about. No VC, no hype, just a guy who fell in love with the flower industry. He spent six years before running an agency making no money before he realized the goal wasn't to make money, it was to add value. The moment he flipped that switch, everything started to work. In this episode, we get into what it took to build that company, the unusual reason he started paying himself a market salary, why he hired a banker for the sale when he didn't have to, and his outlook on building, money, and success. And one more thing I wanted to share before we get into it. I've known Alejandro for a couple of years now, and only after this conversation did I realize that he's the most positive person I've ever met. You'll hear what I mean. If you've ever wondered what it takes to build a company with an abundance mindset and be unshaken no matter what happens, this one's for you. Welcome to another episode of ProfitLed. I'm your host, Melissa Kwan, co-founder of eWebinar. This season, we're exploring the intersection of passion, profit, and purpose, and how those things change as founders evolve and come into financial success. Let's get started. Alejandro, you've been a hustler since you were 13. Right. Typing classmates' papers for money. You even came up with a tiered pricing model. More expensive, the closer to a deadline. What does that like 14-year-old version of you tell us about how you think about money and work and values?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

You know, it's like I would define like this. I like chaos, you know, because chaos brings opportunities, right? So so again, going back to when I was like in second grade in uh in high school, it's like the chaos was like suddenly like we had like typing classes, and then teachers started requesting papers being typed, you know. And when I was taking typing classes, you know, I used to type with two fingers, right? But it was it was very inefficient. And then on typing classes, I realized that I could type with five fingers and it would be like, you know, much, much faster. But it was just painful because it was easier to type the papers, you know. I mean, whatever you had to do using two fingers instead of using five. But I actually put the work in using five, and I love typing. It just, I just I just found it fascinating. So then I realized like most people hated typing. And it's like, hey man, I'll type the paper for you. You know, what that taught me is like if you figure out something that people don't like to do and you kind of like figure out how to do it, that's where you can actually make money. And then like when you were saying about the tier pricey, what I realized is most people would bring me like their labs and the papers like the night before. And I've I forgot the pricey, but it's like imagine like you know, it was like a dollar per page, right? If it was like uh 72 hours before, but then it was like 48 hours, it would be like $2 per page. But if it was the night before, it would be like $5 per page, something like that. And if it was like after 8 p.m., it would be like $10 per page. And you know what? Most people, like 90% of my of my business came from the late and the ultra late. And I remember that I would just from five o'clock to probably like one in the morning, I would stay there to like typing papers. And like the next day, I would just go in and I would make like a I mean like a ton of money. This is like 1990, 1995. So like I would make like good money for for for that time when I was in high school. So it was fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Did you have a team of typers or was it just you? Like a solo printer.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just me. I mean, no, and then and then I learned stuff. Like, for example, I had like you know, like like seniors, and I was like a sophomore, and I had like seniors, and sometimes I would deliver the paper and suddenly like, hey Mel, by the way, uh who's gonna who's gonna pay me? Oh no, David's gonna pay you. And then we'll go to David, hey man, so Mel told me, oh no, Gary's gonna pay you. I would go to Gary and oh well, Mel's gonna pay me. So suddenly, like, I didn't get paid on that paper. So now I learned my lesson. So now when something like that happened, and I had like certain people that I knew, like, you know, like let's say the same team, you know, requested like a paper, I would print two versions, right? And then the first version I would go is like, hey, here's your paper. Oh yeah, uh uh David's gonna pay you. Like, Mel, if I don't get paid like right away, I'm gonna just I'm just I'm just gonna pour it apart. And you were like, Oh no, you wouldn't do it. And like, here you go, here's your paper. Like, oh my god, we gotta turn in like a ten. Well, if you come up with the money, I'll go to the library and print it. And then they would come with the money and I would I already had it pre-printed. So I, you know, I learned about like receivables and that you have to have like some leverage. So it was it was amazing. And all those things add value until today, you know, it's like it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

So I enlisted services like you in university. I had never in university, my four years in university, I never wrote my own paper, like research paper. Like I just hated school. So I would hire this guy who would write like, you know, Earth and Ocean says sciences or whatever, and I would pay him, I don't know, what whatever it was, like two, three hundred bucks. But then he realized he could make money from people like me who hated writing papers. So then he like basically just became a service. And then because I hadn't written any of the papers, I couldn't take the exam. So then I would have him also go in to take my exam. And then I think it created this whole thing where like then they started checking IDs like for exams and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

You know, what what happened to me is I started doing like all these book reports and all that stuff, and then suddenly I would be I would get book reports all the way from four years in high school, right? From different people, you know, younger and older than me, right? And then this is like Windows 95. So it had like the eight plus three. Remember that file names could only have like eight characters and then the three from the extension. So I had to come up with this convention, you know, it was like ENG underscore whatever. And then I started having all these papers. So then the business was that, hey, can you type the paper? But it was more like, hey man, do you have the book report from The Catcher and the Ride? And like, yes, I can give it to you with a modified version, and you know, it's gonna be like 20 bucks. So then suddenly I, you know, I would type the paper, you know, I would type Mel's paper, right? And then like David would say, like, do you have that paper? And I would just slightly modify it because it was a year and like teacher, whatever. And I would just resell that paper. And then I started having like this huge library of papers, and that also became like a great part of the business. So yeah, that was that that was amazing. It was a fun time.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

You were the original Claude, the paraphrasing.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

So then you went to college, became a programmer, ended up in a textile company, and then you basically took a one-week project at a flower importer that turned into three years, which then ultimately became your career. When you look back at that period, what did success look like to you?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

You know what? I didn't really think about it that much. I mean, at that time I was 21 when I started working in this in this flower import operation, and I all I wanted to do was build. You know, it's like I'm a builder. So it's like to me, it's like I loved like seeing stuff that was happening around that. I just wanted to build stuff. And I wasn't even thinking about it, you know, like uh how can I monetize? No, no, no, that stuff. I it was just like the passion of building stuff, and I just wanted to build, build, build, build, build. I just wanted to work, you know, it's just I just found it like fascinating. And then eventually, you know, I left a company and then I started my my company in 2004, on April 1st, 2004, with uh with a partner of mine, and we just started like doing like all these projects. And and again, at that time, success would only make you money, at least from my experience. When you're so focused to make money, money becomes very elusive, you know, because that and that's what it that's what happened to me for years. You know, for years, you know, the only objective that we had was that making money, make your money, how do we make money? And then we tried all these different things, and you know, the neighbor's lawn always looks greener. So it's like, oh, you know, what we're doing is really hard. Let's do the this because it sounds easier and it's it's it and it's bullshit. You know, it never really works. And then eventually, after many, many years, uh, I realized it's you know the goal is not the goal is not making money, but it's adding value. And if you add value, by definition, you're gonna end, you know, you're gonna start making money. But it took me, it took me like six years to figure that out. And it was six years of just grueling pain because it was six years of, you know, again, you and and also very short-sighted. So, oh, you know, our new strategy is this, and then like three months later, like the strategy didn't work, so then you switch strategy. And by switching strategy, it's like, you know, what we did and the services that we sold and all these different things, and it just it just never worked, you know, because again, the whole focus was making money. But then after six years, when I say, like, hey man, like maybe the focus is to add value, and it started like my platform, that's different because then I, you know, we had like one goal in mind, which is with building something that would add value, that would solve a real pain point for customers. And that's when it all started. And then from that point forward, if I'm not gonna say that it was easy, but at least you have like focus. And then success started looking like, how can I build something that adds value? Because if I build something that adds value, then customers are willing to give me their money in exchange for the value that I'm bringing to the table, and then you know, to kind of like take off.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

But 2004, the company you're talking about, was that Comet Sales or was that something else?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

The original company was called Vertical Technologies, but then it's like what happens is I, you know, I came up with the name Comet Sales in 2010, and it was actually Comet with a C. And a friend of mine, like a customer of mine, called me like a couple of weeks later and said, like, hey man, did you notice that Comet is the name of the cleanser? You know, like that cleanser, you know, like with the with the green and yellow stripes. And I'm like, ah, fuck, like, you know, that's that's bad. I just switched the name to a K. You know, and then it just became Comet Sales with a K. I mean, it's like I'd love to have like a more sophisticated story. We had we had like a market study and whatever. No, no, man, that's like the real story. But then the company was still named vertical technologies, and then the product was what really took off. And then I just came up with uh a DBA, you know, doing business as for comet sales, and then ever since that it just became comet sales, and that's it, but again, like the legal company up until we dissolved it a couple years ago was called um uh vertical technologies, LLC, you know, DBA Comet Sales.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

So for for six years, you were still building software for the flower industry.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Not flower industry. I was building software for all sorts of companies.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Oh, okay. Like were you at were you like a dev shop?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, we were at Dev Shop. That's exactly it. I mean, I I I joke with my friends and customers, like I have a PhD on Jack of All Trades Master of None. And I acquired that PhD in those six six six years, six or seven years. Because it's like, you know, you try to do everything, you know, you try to do every you you try to be everything to everyone. And when you're everything to everyone, it doesn't it doesn't really work. It's kind of like on the personal life. You know, when you try to be everyone to everything to everyone, it doesn't really work. You know, it's like you gotta get to a point you say like, fuck it, you know, like these are the people that I want to deal with, and the rest of the people, I don't give a shit, you know. And then life becomes easier. Business-wise, it's the same. You know, when you try to be everything to everyone, boom. It's just hard. And and it also, when you start doing a business, there's so many bright, shiny objects on the edge of the road that there's they're they're a distraction. And it's really hard because like you have a mission, but it's like people go like, hey, now that you're doing flowers, have you thought about doing the same things for avocados or you know, tomatoes or produce or wine? It's it seems so much easier than what you're doing. Why don't you give it a shot? And it's like the discipline that you have to say, you know, to say no, that's that's hard, man, because you gotta say, like, no, no, no. And that's what I did for years. Like, I my philosophy was very simple. Until I'm not the number one in the flower space, why would I go someplace else? I mean, if if I become like the number one and I've saturated the flower space, great, we'll move someplace else. But that's just hard to, you know, it's it's just hard to saturate a market. Why would I go to a different market, you know, instead of becoming like the number one in one market?

SPEAKER_02 11:06

So you went from building software for other people to deciding, okay, we're gonna build our own platform for the flower market.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

And why did you choose a flower market?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Well, a lot of things have to do with luck, you know, like like again, why did I choose a flower market? Well, I had a background in the flower industry, you know, so I worked in this flower uh improperation for three years and I really learned the uh the inner workings of the business, you know, like buying, selling, you know, operations, the warehouse management, all these different things, right? So I kind of like learned that. But then it was like, well, that's that's boring and there's no market. So then I went out and I tried to build everything for everyone for six years and it didn't work. And then I ended up going back into the flower business because I had a friend of mine, a customer of a friend of mine called me and said, like, hey man, I live in Tampa and I want to build like my my I need a new POS. Can you recommend me somebody? And I was like, sure, there's a there's actually a company in Tampa that has like a POS for the specifically for flowers. Uh we ended up acquiring that company, you know, many years afterwards. And then like two weeks later, you know, at that time, I had like one customer. I mean, I was really, really like in dire straits. I had one customer and I was building like this this um logistics system for the flower industry, for uh, for a for a trucking company in the flower industry. I would build them like every Friday. And you know what? I would go like on Friday and I would look at my invoices, and it's like I can't send like you know the sequential invoices like every Friday because when they when they click on AP, they're gonna realize that they're my only customer. So like I've done that. Yeah, yeah. So if you go into QuickBooks and you look at at that time I use QuickBooks and you go to the invoice number and you hit the plus sign, it just kind of like bumps up the invoice. So like every Friday I would skip like 47, 35, you know, random numbers so that when they looked at AP, it looked like I was super busy, which which I was not. So, anyways, um a lot of things happened at that point. And then with this guy, what happens is like he called me, I had like one customer, and like two weeks later, I was like, you know what? I should probably like build a system for the flower industry because I kind of like know it. And at that time, this is like 2010, and um web-based applications were kind of just taking off, but like sales for like the the the the the only one like enterprise application that was out there, and I was like, you know what? I love like web apps and I'm gonna build this web app. And I called this customer, like, well, this this this guy, Greg Grams Cannon, two weeks later, and I was like, listen, man, I'm gonna build you know a POS that's web-based. Would you be interested? And he was like, Fuck yeah, man, I'll be your first customer. And he actually became my first customer, and that's how I kind of got started.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

I mean, honestly, anyone who's run an agency before, including me, knows how hard it is. Yeah. Like you're always chasing the deal, chasing the invoice, no one wants to pay you. Like, actually, I I've known very few people, agency owners, who have successfully transitioned to a product of their own.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

It's hard. And then, and then again, and you gotta deal with so much stuff. I at one point in time I had a customer in New York, 1800 flowers, you know, and they were like, you know, like the big dog in the flower industry and what, but they were fucking assholes, you know, because it's like, you know, they would I would do like all this stuff and it would take like eight, you know, like three months to pay me. And I would call the guy that I dealt with, like, hey man, like what the fuck, dude? It's been like three months and I haven't got my got my bills paid. And he was like, he was like, Alex, you do realize that it's your fault. And I was like, why is it my fault? It's like, well, your company name is vertical technology. So it started with a V. So it's always at the end on the list. And I'm like, dude, I mean, no way, you know, like I wasn't bored yesterday, you know, you know what I'm saying? So, anyways, but it's it's a lot of stories, it's just fun. I mean, at the end of the day, when you decide to be an entrepreneur, what a lot of people don't realize, it's a lifestyle. You know, it's just like a lot of people, and I met a bunch of people who's like, oh, you know, I want to become an entrepreneur because it's like I want to golf every day in the afternoon. It's like uh it's just not how it works, buddy. You know, it's I I mean, eventually you can get there, but it's like it's just not how it works. It actually, you're probably not gonna be able to golf, you know, for a long period of time because you're gonna be working, you know, like every single day, you know, including weekends.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

That's just something people say when they've never started a company before. Like just like watch TV.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

And I had a lot I met a lot of people when I was living in Miami, a lot of people that that actually went there and did that. And they they started a company because they wanted to golf every single day, and then two years later they went out of business. I mean, they had and they had to go back to our the regular job after they they they apart all their savings because it's it's a lifestyle, you know. And then it's like you gotta, I mean, you gotta hustle, you gotta work, you know, you gotta start early, you gotta work late. There's like everything's kind of like against you. I mean, at the end of the day, it's like getting on a boat, you know, from Miami to say, I don't know, to Lisbon, you know, on a sailboat. You don't really know how to sail, and then you don't have like any equipment, and then you just go in the ocean, and there could be like, you know, there could be like tornadoes, and there's like, you know, like sharks, and it's like there's food shortages, and like everything's against you. But again, it's like you kind of like figure it out. And that's what I think that is really exciting about being an entrepreneur. You know, it's like you you have to let chaos to a certain point.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

So you started Comet when your life was really not in a good place. Can you give us some color as to what that was like back then?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Again, it's it's it's adversity, you know. In adversity, it's like, I'll tell you what, one of my one of my secrets is like you can have a plan B, you know, and that's where a lot of people go like, well, I have a plan A and then I have a plan B. Well, that sucks, you know, because when you have a plan B, why would you work hard to achieve plan A if you have a plan B? When you know, when things get hard, you can always say, like, well, I'm just gonna eject from plan A and I'm gonna jump over to plan B. In my case, I didn't have a plan B. It was all plan A. So I and I had like, you know, and I had like, you know, young kids, and I was like kind of like just recently divorced, and I was living with my parents. It was just hard, man. I mean, it was I was making no money. I mean, I I mean, it was just hard, you know. Going back to to again to living with my with my parents back in Medellin after living in Miami for 10 years, uh, it was just it was crazy. But then again, when you don't have a plan B, then you know, what are you gonna do if this doesn't work? Like, no, no, no, it's gotta work. And you know what? It gives you like an extra boost of motivation that nobody understands because at that time, you know, my regular weeks would be like 90 hours per week. That's you know, that's what it takes. And that and a lot of people don't get it. It's just hard, you know. And people then afterwards they go, like, oh, you know, you know, I heard that you were doing base. Can you share like, you know, the trick? Like, trick? What do you mean? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was your trick? It's like, well, my trick was to eat shit for eight years. I mean, that's oh no, but what isn't there like another easier route? Like, well, that's that's the one that I know, you know. And at the end of the day, the best definition that I could provide for that part of time of my life is like you hanging from a log in the middle of the ocean, and you know, and it's like there's no land in sight, and every now and then there's a wave that kind of like pushes you underwater, and you don't know if you're ever gonna take another breath, and that's it. But that's the lifestyle. And then once you kind of like get used to it, then you embrace it. And then once you embrace it, then you just you know, you become very resilient. You you start growing like you know, thick skin, and like shit happens, and it's like, you know, it's like I don't care. I mean, I have a mission and I'm gonna keep pushing forward, and knowing that you're always fighting, you know, all the odds are for the most part against you, especially like I bullshit my business, right? So it's like, and I didn't have like any, I mean, I started with no resources, you know, no resources, not not no experience, not no nothing. But at the end of the day, it's like I had a purpose, you know, I had a purpose, I had a vision. And if you have that and and you're willing to print the work, you know, I'm not saying that it's gonna it's gonna work, but the odds are much higher than if you don't have a vision and you don't have a purpose, you know, in life. It's it's just it's so hard that if you don't have something that's worth fighting for, you're gonna give up. And that's why you need to have something that you really care about because it's just really hard.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

What was your purpose, son? Because sounds like it was hard for many years. Like, what was a thing that got you out of bed?

SPEAKER_00 18:17

The purpose was like I I fell in love with the flower industry because I worked in this company and like the system that we used was like a DAS-based system, and everything was you know paper-based, and it was you know, faxes here and there, and printing, and it was a shit show. And nothing was online, nothing, it was like all these, it was it was just bad. And my objective was like, how can I make these companies more successful by by making sure that they can actually connect? And again, like building like a web app so that you could connect like the growers and then the importers and then the wholesalers, and like no paper, like I hated paper, so it's like no printouts and none of that stuff, everything being digital. And that was kind of like that became like my vision. So it was more like you know, I I wanted to add value. And then when you focus on adding value, like magical things happen. I'll give you an example. Like at one trade show, probably like 10 years ago, I always ask customers, like, hey, what's keeping you up at night? And like suddenly I customer, like, oh, you know, so many customers are paying with credit cards, but it's such a pain in the ass because you have to go to a portal and you have to put in the all the stuff. And I had like a guy that had been calling me for the last couple of months or emailing me about processing credit cards in the system, and I didn't really pay any attention. And then after that trade show, like five customers told me the same thing. So I went back to the teams and I spoke with this guy like, listen, man, we're gonna process credit cards in the system because I want to solve a problem for my customers. Okay, perfect. And we did that, but then I didn't realize that you can actually monetize you know credit card transactions. And we were processing like, I don't know, $25, $30 million a month and credit cards, and we started making like a boatload of money from processing credit cards. So again, I never did it to make money, but but the fact that we focused on adding value, suddenly like we realized that processing credit cards was super profitable for us because we made money on the residuals. So tons of examples like that.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

So you said it took a while to find product market fit. Like how many years in did you know like you were onto something?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Um, with this system, probably like a year until we started, you know, we know that we were into something. Uh, but it was hard because it's like we I was competing with all these systems that like the DOS-based system that we used to this company, they had been around for 35 years. So you can imagine how much stuff you can actually build in 35 years, even though it was like a solo operation, it's still 35 years. It was hard because I would visit customers and they'd like, hey, listen, your system looks great, but you know, you don't have no purchase orders. I can't use it if you don't have PO. So it's like, oh shit, you gotta go back and you know build POs. Then you go back two months later, hey Mel, here's the system. Well, it's great, but you're missing like pre-books. You know, you need to have pre-books. And I was like, oh shit. It it took up like probably like a year and a half until you have like the first customer that it's it's a simple customer, and and and and whatever they have, if they're using like Excel, whatever you have is much better than Excel. So suddenly they jump on board. And then, you know, I I visited like, I don't know, like a hundred customers in two years, maybe, maybe more, uh, mostly in Miami, because Miami has a big concentration of flower importers. Uh, all the flowers are flown into Miami and then you know distributed from Miami. So it's easier. Then again, just repeat the cycle. Go to a customer, show them, you know, you're missing this. Okay, go back to the drawing board, fix it, go back to the customer and do it multiple times. And then the smaller customer suddenly you get to a point, you reach like a level that they can actually use it and they they wish that you have more, but they can start using it. And then you start having paying customers, and not only paying customers, but the customers that give you feedback, and then it becomes like this positive feedback loop where you you start taking off. And then, like, probably like by 2013, you know, we were like the coolest company in the space because we were like web-based and like, and again, you listen to customers. What did they hate about about the existing companies? Lack of support. Like my two competitors in Miami had no support, like their support was terrible. So they had no documentation. So we had like a knowledge base. We we had every single thing of the system was documented. We had like, you know, we implemented Zendisc, and ZenDisc was like the bomb, but it probably still is, you know, for customer support. So those things start making a big difference. And then we started, you know, eating at the market that the other companies have.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

So as it was starting to kind of on the up and up, like, were you paying yourself well already living a good Life.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

No, no, man. I wasn't paying myself well. I was investing, you know, all the money back in the company. To me, it was like a badge of honor of not paying me anything, right? And then and then like in 2014, that's when I started getting calls like from companies, you know, interested in learning about the company and you know, like doing transactions, whatever. And I remember that one guy I spoke with him, and he was like, Hey man, so just out of curiosity, you know, like how much do you pay yourself? And I was like, Oh, you know, it's like I'm so committed that I don't pay myself shit. And he was like, Well, you know, then your company is that really valuable. Like, what are you talking about, dude? And like, well, you know, here's what happens like if we were to acquire a company, the first thing that we have to do is we have to find, you know, find somebody that does exactly what you do, and we're not gonna be able to find that person for zero. So it's like, you know, it doesn't make any sense. So it's like at that point, like, oh man, so it's like suddenly it's like my real cost has to be part of the company. So then after that point, I started paying myself, and then you know, I started paying myself. Like, if I was gonna get somebody like that was doing my job, how much would they make? Same with the rest of the team. And then the company becomes much more valuable because when somebody comes in and looks at the company, if they're like when I sold the company, we we had a new CEO come in. And then, you know, guess what? I was paying myself, you know, very good. So when we decided to bring in a new CEO, it's like, you know, the cost was already there because we could hire somebody. We we ended up spending more money, but it's like you're not starting from zero. You know, you're starting from say 80% of where the the new CEO came in. So that that really helps a lot. But again, you can't be premature about it.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

I think a lot of founders, especially nowadays, kind of wear that badge of honor of like not paying themselves, like kind of ramen profitable. But ultimately, like you need to be mentally healthy, right? And like not in survival mode all the time to be able to make like great decisions.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Well, it also depends where you are in your time frame. Like I spoke earlier today with a with a guy that's 28 years old and he started a SaaS company and like they're kind of like, you know, just just getting started, whatever. And it's like, you know, and I told him, like, hey man, you're you're 28, you're single. It's like, you know, you can take so many risks. I mean, you can live out of you know, ram and noodles, in noodles, you know, for a while. Because again, you're at that that stage. But if you have like a family, if you have like kids, if you have like other responsibilities, then it's just harder. It's not healthy from a financial point of view of the company. Your financials are not are not gonna be realistic if you're not paying yourself anything. And I'm not saying you don't have to pay yourself like you know the top salary, but it's like you have to pay yourself something so that when somebody looks at the financials, you know, they make sense. Because if not, it's not like a real company if you're running it and you're not paying it, because you have to assume that if you stop running it and you have to bring somebody in, nobody's gonna come in to run it for free. It's just not gonna happen. That's how I would suggest people to kind of like set up like their comps. If I was if I was gonna bring somebody to do what I do, how much would they make? And and again, understanding that you can't pay like market prices when you get started, but like as soon as you can start paying yourself that so that the company becomes more realistic.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

So you've told me before, because we're friends and we hang out at parties, that you were happy running Comet. Like you didn't need to sell it. Like you would have like you loved your job and you would have been fine like just running it. And you know, when someone came knocking, you just kind of named your dream number to see if somebody would meet it. Walk me through that moment. Like, what did it feel like when somebody was like, Yeah, actually, like we can meet you there. Hey, I want to take a minute to talk about the thing that makes my life and this podcast possible. My own company eWebinar. Here's something no one questions. We expect every piece of content in our personal lives to be available on demand from this podcast to our favorite TV show. But when it comes to business webinars, whether it's demos, training sessions, or onboarding calls, anything where a live person has to show up and deliver content, we're still asking people to be somewhere at a specific time on one specific day, hoping they'll make it, and it just doesn't scale. The average attendance rate for a live webinar is 30 to 40 percent. That means the majority of people who want your content never see it. The prospects who never see your demo don't convert, the customers who skip onboarding don't activate, anyone who misses training won't adopt your product. The E webinar was built to solve that. We turn any video into an interactive experience that runs on autopilot 24-7 in every time zone. Your audience joins when it works for them, and our live chat lets you respond to questions in real time or later through email, so every question gets answered and nobody feels ignored. It outperforms live by every metric. Attendance, watch times, engagement, and conversion rates are all higher. When live delivery is no longer the bottleneck, you open up a whole new world of opportunities, and that's the real unlock. You're not just replacing the webinars you're already doing, you're finally creating all the ones you never had bandwidth for. The onboarding series, the product walkthrough, the sales demo for that segment you've been meaning to go after. Come see it for yourself. Visit eewebinar.com to join our demo at your own time. No salesperson required. All right, let's get back to the episode.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Well, I'll actually go a little bit back. I was a member of Vistage. I'm actually gonna join Vistage again. It's uh it's a peer CEO network, and there's a there's a group up in uh, well, there's many, many groups across the states, but I used to go to a group north of Miami in Boca Raton, and I would commute like every every month to that meeting. And in 2018, I think it was we had uh they bring like great speakers, and we had a great speaker called Patrick Angashik, I think it was the name of the guy, talking about, you know, if you're gonna sell your business, you know, the the macro environment has like peaks and trolls, right? And it was like he was like, hey, hey, if we're gonna sell the business, make sure that you know the economy is at the peak so that you can have like a better valuation than if the economy is at the bottom. And you can have like the best team, the best product, the best everything. But if the economy's down, it's gonna affect you know how much you sell. So he asked me, like, hey, Alejandro, so when are you gonna sell your business? And I was like, no, Patrick, I'm never gonna sell my business. I love what I do, it's my passion, it's my hobby. It's like I don't really work. It's like I just have fun. And I had one of my friends from the group, uh, a guy called uh Mike Earling, he actually took a health company public and he sold it like for 800 million or something, like a crazy number. And I remember that Mike was across the room and he was like, Alex, I challenge that assumption. You should think about having a liquidity event, selling the business, and doing whatever you want for the rest of your life. And it's like, you know, it's like I don't believe in absolute truths. You know, it's like I I kind of like change very fast based on what I learned. So suddenly before that meeting, it was like me and the company were like this. And then after that meeting, you know, my mindset was like, hey man, a company is like a car. You use it, you kind of, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sell on one car for the rest of my life. So as of that meeting, I started breaking down, like, you know, separating like me from the company. And then I was like, okay, eventually I'm gonna sell it. And then since eventually I wanted to sell it, you want to make sure that you keep the company in good shape, you know. So like I was like uh anal when it came to reporting, to accounting, like all of our books were, you know, you know, we closed our books like on the fifth of the month, all the bank accounts were reconciled. I mean, we I invested on like a on a strong accounting system intact, you know, which is expensive and stuff like that. But then we complied, I think it was called uh ASC, ASCII 606 or 602, whatever, for recurring revenue accounting. Because then you start getting, as the company grows, then it's like you know, the requirements are you know, if you have a customer and you have a 12-month contract, even if they pay for the whole year, you can't post the revenue on the PL. You have to, you know, post the current month on the PL, and then you have to have the rest on the balance sheet. And then as the months go by, then you can actually move it from the balance sheet to the PL, and it just becomes a shit show if you do that manually. So again, you implement Intact. And again, these are expensive systems. Intact was like, I don't know, I thought I was paying like 80 grand a year or 90 grand a year. It was expensive, but you know, it got the job done. And guess what? When and the reason like most people didn't get like, why would I invest like in sales for like 65k a year and intact, like 80 grand a year and uh workato, like all these you know, enterprise tools that are really, really expensive. Well, what happens is if you're thinking about selling the business, this is an investment in the future because when when a company comes by and they're gonna acquire you, if you're running like, I don't know, like Zero or QuickBooks or whatever, I mean, it gets it gets the job done, but it's like you know, to a certain point, like making off accounting. You can go back, you can change. I mean, it's just when you're using like a system like Intact or NetSuite, whatever, these are more hardcore accounting packages. It just it's just much more complex, but you know, they're just safer. So it's like, guess what? When I when I sold the business, the the VC that acquired us, they implemented intact on all the companies that they that they acquired. So suddenly we had intact. So suddenly it's like, oh, our financials, you know, make sense. If they ask me for something, like, hey, share the financials and everything threat consultant and stuff. So it just makes the company more valuable.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

How long before you decided actually I'm gonna sell this one day to actually getting an offer?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah, so I had like all these calls. Uh, it was actually pretty taxing because I would get like emails like pretty much every week. There was a point that I would be taking like five or six calls every week just with venture capital, growth equity, private equities. I hid search funds. That's the one that's that's the one thing that I would recommend people. Don't don't waste time with search funds, depending on what you're doing. It's it that's a whole different story. So one thing that I did is I took all these calls, and the reason being is my philosophy was like the people that are calling me know way more about all these different things than I do. I know a lot about my business, but I don't know anything about you know the rest. So every time that I had a call with with a VC or or P or whatever, I would learn all these different things. And I did that, you know, I took hundreds of calls during the years, right? So I learned all these stuff. I learned about multiples and the rule of 40, and because is that you're having a call, hey Alejandro, where are you on the rule of 40? Like, what's the rule of 40? I have no idea. It's like, oh, you know, like you gotta, oh wow, the rule of 40, that's really important. Hey, so all these different things I learned just by taking those calls. So I would strongly recommend people to make time, you know, to take those calls because you can actually learn a lot from people that are experts. And then I kind of had this like a bit on as a as an afterthought, right? And then I was in the Amazon with my wife February 22. And uh in the year before, I had, I mean, I had companies and they call me and they send me LOIs and it's like, no, I'm not, I'm not interested, I'm not interested. And one guy was like, send me an LOI, and like, this is man, I'm not interested. And I was like, Well, I'm kind of like offended because you're not even countering. I was like, Well, like the number that I have in my head is like very different, and I don't want to kind of like sound condescending. I was like, Well, what's the number? So I gave him the number. And he's like, Yeah, we're not there yet, but maybe like in a year, you know, I'll touch base. And he emailed me a year later in January 22, and he was like, hey man, um, send me the financials. One of the advantages of having like a robust accounting system is I would run, it was called a report group, and with a single command, it would generate the PL, the balance sheet, and the uh cash flow statement. Like, imagine if you're a if you're like a potential acquirer, right? And you email me, send me your financials, and like three minutes later, you get all the documents for me, you know, up to the pen. It gives, you know, it's it's like a good impression, right? So, anyway, so the guy emailed me back saying, like, hey man, so are you ready to make a transaction? And I'm like, listen, Eric, I'm not, you know, it's like I told you, and I'm not interested. He goes like, well, based on the financials, the number that you mentioned last year now makes sense. And I'm like, oh man. And so then February, this is like late January 22, February, we go, we go to the Amazon, my wife and I, and you know, we spent phenomenal time there, whatever. And one day we we ate like some mushrooms in this um lick in the middle of you know the river. I mean, it was amazing. And then kind of like on the way out, you know, going like I remember like we were there like kind of like tripping and stuff, and I thought I was like, you know what, time to sell the business. I mean, you know, the war in Ukraine just started, and then the economy was like, you know, super amazing and all these things. And I was like, you know what? I and I got like offers and it's like the number that I wanted, and it's kind of like there, and it's like it's the time. I'll I'll fast forward for a second. So when I hired like the guy from the MA company, he told me at that point that the majority of the of the deals fall because you know the entrepreneurs get greedy, and then once they want to sell the business, then say, well, why is it not you know twice that amount? You know, and then the deals fall apart. So, anyways, since I had my number in mind, I was like, you know, it's a good number. This guy was like, hey, let's do a deal directly. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, I know how it works. You know, it's like I'm not gonna do a deal directly. And I and I I found a company called Quorum. They're they're great, like an MA for tech companies, they're expensive, you know, but they get the job done, hire those guys. Long story short, since I decided to sell the business in February, I ended up closing in October. You know, I had like my LOI on June, and then it took me like um four months to actually do like all the diligence and closing. And by the way, the diligence is amazing, it's a lot of work. Most people just like, oh, it sucks, whatever. I think it's freaking fascinating. It's it's it's uh it's an emotional roller coaster for sure, but I think that it's fascinating. I mean, you get to talk to so many amazing people, and it's like you talk to all these different attorneys, and it's like I had like the I remember like the biggest call, it was like a four-hour call, and I spoke with like with 15 different attorneys. Every attorney focused on one specific thing, including like cryptography and shit like that, like crazy stuff. So I had a blast. I mean, it it's taxing from an emotional perspective and from an energy perspective because it's just you know, it's just a lot of work, but man, it's just pretty amazing. And if you have like if you have like the company organized and all everything documented and stuff like that, it's just easier because they just ask for a lot of stuff. Literally, they leave no stone unturned.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

But why did you decide to go through a banker instead of going through it directly? Because I think most founders would be like, yeah, let's cut out the middleman and not pay them.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

No, man, because what happens is okay, so I can only share my theories and my hypotheses. I'm not saying that these are like the correct ones. I'm just saying my thought process. If you're gonna have like a surgery, right? You want to have like the surgery with the best doctor. You know, suddenly somebody goes like, hey man, why would you go to a hospital? I mean, I can operate you at my home, you know, and you don't have to pay the hospital. You go, like, well, it's kind of like heart surgery. What happens if something happens in your home? Like, I'm really sure if it's a hospital, the odds of being able to get the healthcare that you need, it's there. So it's like the way that I see it is like, at least from my side, is like I'm an emo, right? And you know, um, swimming in the ocean, and suddenly there's a shark, and the shark wants to negotiate with me. And it's like, hey man, you know, like I think that I'm the bomb and I'm the shit, so I'm gonna jump in the shark tank, you know, to negotiate with the sharks. What's gonna end up happening is that one of the sharks is gonna eat you and you don't even realize that you were eaten, you know, and you're super happy because it's like you killed it, but they actually ate you alive. Um, so my philosophy was like, well, since I'm a Nemo and I'm jumping into the shark tank, I feel much better if I hire my own, if I rent a shark, you know. So that's what I do with an MA. I hire an MA company that they're a shark and they know they've done this multiple times. So suddenly when the buyer comes in and they come up with something that your rent a shark goes like, hey, I'm gonna call that bullshit because it's bullshit. That's not market, that's not how we roll, that's not how our deals are done. And then the other thing is like these companies, the ones that tell you to go directly, a lot of times is you start a deal and then you you know you have to pay the attorneys, right? And that and that the attorneys get paid when you when you do the closing. Boom. Well, what happens if mid-deal, they go like, hey, by the way, we were looking at the numbers and we decided that we're gonna pay you 30% less or 50% less. At that point in time, you've already spent a couple of months with the attorneys. And if you call out the deal, you're responsible for paying the attorneys. And then the attorneys, you know, like attorneys are expensive. Like our transaction was like, I don't know, like a million dollars in in attorney fees. It's it's a lot of money. So suddenly, if if they pull midway, suddenly you can't exforce. So it's like the MA company is like a protection layer that ensures that none of those things happen because they know how to deal with that stuff, right? And then when you have the SPA and you know, the D SPA, the working capital, all these different things that you're not familiar with. You know, it's like, like I'll tell you, and and again, it's expensive. You know, if I were to sell, you know, my new company again, I would go to an MA firm. No doubt about it. Because again, why would I cut corners? And plus, you know, like with the MA, it's like, hey Jeff, my target is this. Healthy, you know, this is the number that I want to get. Like, sure, man, it it I mean, it seems like it's gonna be hard, but it's we'll we'll we'll do our best. Boom. And that's that's what you get. Now, if I get my number, you know, the number that I wish for, and I have to pay like commission, whatever, but I'm getting the number that I wish for, I'd rather get that, you know, and having like a like a nice process because if you do, you know, online research, you're gonna find that there's more horror stories than happy stories. Like my story is freaking amazing. You know, ended up having like great partners, great relationship. I'm still at the board, you know, they're amazing partners. They've taken the company to a whole new level. I mean, it's just freaking amazing. It's just been amazing for me. But when you look, when you search online, and I did my fair of a research before, it's like, man, there's a lot of horror stories. So that's what I would go with an MA. How many years did you build this company before you sold it? It only took me 18 years, uh, six months, and 18 days, but who's counting?

unknown 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

And how did it feel like when that transaction closed? Because that's almost two decades, right? Like that's your baby.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I use a lot of mental models, right? And again, uh things that help you kind of like understand life. And one of the models that I that I constantly use, it's about the journey, not the destination. So it's like if you're working hard and you're only focused to sell the business and you're miserable while you're doing it, it's gonna be terrible. Because again, of the 18 years, six months, and 18 days, when you sell the business, it's like you know, you have like a huge dopamine hit and it's gonna last you like for maybe like like a week, maybe like two weeks, and then it goes, and then it kind of like then life goes back to normal because nothing really, I mean, you know, sure, you know, you have more assets available, but then besides that, like nothing really changes. I mean, like I at least for us, like nothing, I mean, our life was pretty amazing before that. So it's like nothing really changed. I mean, we I just have more time, especially when when I got the new CEO, I got more time. So I would really kind of like encourage people that enjoy what you're doing. I mean, like enjoy the ride. I mean, at the end of the day, sure, it's phenomenal to have that uh and to and to get to that point, but like damn, enjoying the ride is the most important thing. Like, I like again, the asset test is a Sunday. If you ask people on a Sunday, like, hey, what about tomorrow? Most people are gonna go, like, oh my god, tomorrow I gotta go to the office, what a drag, whatever. If you ask me on a Sunday, I was like, holy shit, I can't wait to be in the office tomorrow because I have all these ideas that have been brewing, and I can't wait to be in my desk and talking with my team and getting them off the ground. And and again, don't take my word for it, but ask people on a Sunday. And if you ask people on a Sunday, it's the asset test. Like most people are gonna are gonna complain about Monday. Oh, Monday, I gotta go back to work, but this and that. It's it kind of sucks in my perspective.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

I love your attitude. It's very different than anyone I've spoken to.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

I mean, let's let's talk about money for a second, right? Like you exited for life-changing money after working like almost 20 years, and then you went deep into Bitcoin, researching it, and then you put the majority of your exit into Bitcoin when it was like relatively low. So it's almost like you had kind of two exits, right, in a very short period of time. How has your relationship with money changed, I guess, from when you started to having a successful business to just having generational wealth?

SPEAKER_00 40:19

The answer is it hasn't. And I'll tell you why. Because it's it's never been really that important. And I'll tell you why, because I have an abundance mindset. So when I was running my, you know, in 2010, I was always like two weeks from being from being broke, you know, and being broke is you you run out of money. That's what most people don't realize. It's like being broke in your company, you know, you don't have the cash to pay for you know whatever you have to pay. So it's like I had a friend that had like a company in in Colombia, and my payroll was in Colombia, it was like five people, uh, including myself, but I didn't pay myself at that point, of course. And and and my cash was so freaking tight that I would remember that I would call my friend, like, hey man, I I had payroll on Friday, it was like Tuesday. And I knew that I wasn't gonna make payroll because I didn't have any checks or credit cards coming in, whatever. And I would call my friend saying, like, hey man, I know that you know he would always be looking for dollars every now and then say, hey man, do you need some dollars like this week? It's like, oh dude, like yes, I I would need like, you know, whatever, but 5k. Okay, amazing. Hey man, can you give me like the peso like tomorrow and then I'll I'll give you like the dollars like next week? It's like, yeah, man, good friend of mine, right? That was how tight it was, you know, it that was like constant, like for for months or or or a couple of years going like that. So, and even at that time when somebody had like a birthday, we're like, hey man, it's like it's like Mel's birthday, let's order a pizza. And it would be five hours like, well, let's lit it so that we can all get like you know, like uh uh uh the same amount of pizza and we just make you know it would just be amazing. And then when we were 90 people and stuff like that, we would have like a whole different thing. And we would and I remember that we would send people on vacations, you know. We had we we had I went to a conference, you know, like in 2017, maybe, and I got was like, hey man, you should you should implement something called vacations. You should send your you should send your employees on vacation. Like, that is fucking amazing. I'm gonna start doing that. So we actually broke the team in small groups, and we were like 90 people, and like every every month we would send, you know, like people to a trip. We sent them to Nuki, and then we sent them to the desert up in Colombia, and it was amazing. And again, the company paid 100% of everything, all the expenses, whatever, and it was a huge investment. So I don't try and say like there's two types of mindsets. You have like scarcity mindset and you have an abundant mindset. When you have a scarcity mindset, it's never enough. It's like, and you see it all the time. It's like people that have like a like a super yacht, it's like they and they feel bad because when they went into the dock, somebody you know docked a larger boat, and then it's like a scarcity mindset because it's never enough. I have like an abundant mindset, you know, like my life has been fucking amazing, you know, regardless of you know the ups and downs and all that stuff, it's like you know, it's like, hey man, I've never I've never been hungry, you know, I've never had anything like that. I mean, you know, my life is amazing. So again, how does it relate to to money? It's like for years, during those six years that I told you when I got a PhD in Jacob Al Trace Master of None from 2004 to 2010, give or take. For all those years, I was just my only goal was to make money. That was my my the the pursuit of life was making money. And I made no money. It was elusive, very elusive, because I was I you know they was framing it in the wrong way. The frame is how do I add value? And you start making money when you add value, because when you add value, that's how the economy works and then the universe works and stuff like that. So, in essence, it hasn't really changed. I mean, it's like, you know, again, I have an abundant mindset. I'm not a bean counter. If I go out with my friends and I can and I can pay the bill, I'm happy to pay the bill. I mean, if if I can, if somebody's traveling and they can't do something with it, I'm happy, you know, to cover it for them because you know what? You paid forward. It's like, you know, and if everybody kind of thought like that, I just think that the world would be a better place. And then again, you know, you're smart about it. And it's it's like I remember that I had one of my ex-fosses, you know, he taught me something when I was like 21 years old. Hey man, always live below your means. And that kind of stuck with me. So it's very simple. Like people, people don't make money because they live above their means, they want to keep up with the Joneses, you know, like, oh, my friend flies in business, so I'm also gonna fly in business, even though my friend has assets that pay for his business trip, and I have to, you know, buy a business ticket with a credit card and I'm gonna, I'm not sure how I'm gonna pay. That makes no freaking sense. You know, if you can't afford, you know, flying in business, don't fly in business. You know, like it's it's the world's not gonna end. But then again, going back to that money thing, I'm just a practice. Right. So it's like, be happy, you know, just be grateful. Be uh, you know, have an abundance mindset. There's there's enough resources around, you know, for everybody. It's just a matter of how do how do you channel it so that you can actually get you know the part that you that you want. And then again, be grateful. It's like I've met people that have so much and all they care about is having more, more, more. And I'm like, you know, have you ever have you ever learned about the law of diminishing returns? And obviously they haven't, you know, because when you when you learn about the law of diminishing returns, think about it. You know, how many cell phones do you have? One. Could you have three? Yes. Why? It doesn't, you know, you know, like the curve goes like this, right? And then cars, you know, sure one zero cars, okay, kind of sucks, depending on where you live. One car, amazing. Two cars, you know, sure. Three cars, maybe you have one, whatever. Four cars? The curve goes down, right? So again, I I just think that the law of demonic returns, and a lot of people, I know people that have made a killing, whatever, and you know what? They're still slaves to their jobs, to their everything that they do. And you know what I do? I'm the master of my universe. You know, me and my wife, we manage our time. We can be wherever we want, whatever we want, with whoever we want. That's it, man. I mean, it in my opinion, going back to the definition of success, that is my definition of success. If you can do that in life, you are successful by far. The benchmark is with me from last week, last month, last year. It's not with you or the neighbor or the person that you saw. Like, who gives a shit? I'll give you an example. People are so fixated on um getting getting known and having like likes and all that stuff. Let me ask you a question. Can you name one of the kings of the Assyrian Empire? No. The answer probably no, right? You and nobody, you know, nobody else, right? And the Assyrian Empire ruled the middle, you know, the Middle East, you know, for for hundreds of years, you know, 2,500 years ago. And they were like the most, you know, the king of the Assyrians was the most powerful individual of the world at that time. Same goes for the presidents of the United States and you know, from Russia and from all the different, you know, from all the different you know, places in the world. Nobody remembers. You know, so like when people fixate today on being like known, who gives a shit, man? Like nobody cares. Why don't you just focus on being happy with the people that are close to you and your loved ones? So, anyways, food for that.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

So last year you took your son out of school for a year to travel, experience the world along with your wife. Actually, that trip just ended. I'm curious, like, what did the last year give you guys or give him? And do you do you think you guys came back the same person?

SPEAKER_00 46:22

No, we're never the same people. We never. I mean, it's I did I told you before, like, we don't believe in absolute truth. So it's like as as life goes on, we're constantly changing. And that's why, and when life, when you're constantly changing, that's it, it's it most people don't do it because it requires you know evolving. And when you're evolving, you you have to let go of people that are not evolving with you. And again, it's not no judgment, but it's like you want to hang out with people that are actually changing and they're kind of like aligned with what you believe. So, so definitely not. I mean, every that's where you try to travel as much as we can because I think that traveling, like envision this, like you see the world through one lens and it's a yellow lens, and I see the world through a different lens, which is a blue lens. But then if I visit you, I go like, oh my god, Mel sees the world world with a different lens. And when you when you visit me, you kind of like kind of like see the same. So then as you travel around the world, you realize that our reality is defined by depending on the lens that you're using. And the more lenses that you're able to collect, the broader the vision of the world. So when something happens, you don't jump ship to become judgmental about it. You go like, oh my god, like this is so different. You know, that's why, you know, in Colombia, for example, the number 13 is considered bad luck, and there's like a lot of buildings that don't have the number 13, and in Japan, it's like the number four, which is weird because when you think about it, like it's like it's like this collective high you know hypnosis that's like you know, I call it like the collective stupidity. Because what's the point? Like there's no rationale behind it. But think about it. But when you kind of like fall into those things, if you're like superstitious, it's like you realize that when you were a kid, somebody invoked like an absolute truth that 13 is a bad, you know, it's a bad luck number. And then if you decide to believe that and you don't challenge that that belief just because you know it's real because they told you about it, then it's bullshit. Because then when you go to Japan, they're like, well, why do they have 13 and not four? And when you come to Colombia, why do you have you know uh uh four and not thirteen? You know, it it it's irrational. But human beings tend to be irrational. That's why you know we work so hard and changing so that we can actually we call it getting out of the matrix, you know, because most people are trapped in the matrix and they don't even realize the world can use more empathy and compassion for sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah, exactly, man. Exactly. So tell us what you're working on right now. What's the next thing?

SPEAKER_00 48:26

So after Japan, uh we were traveling and we were just uh kind of like, you know, I wasn't really working. So then I was listening about cloud code and reading all these things on X, whatever. Then I came back on Japan late late January and I wanted to build a project uh with cloud code. So I kind of like, you know, but I'm not working per se, so I didn't have anything to build. So it's like, well, you know, I like Bitcoin, I like self-sovereignty sovereignty. So it's like I have like a bunch of code wallets, and then it's like, well, I had like two heart attacks in the last 18 months, so then suddenly it's like, hey man, I should probably most none of my friends have anything documented. I'm the only one that has a like a document, but I'm like, well, I'm gonna build a platform for that. And then I just kind of like started building a platform with cloud code, and yeah, I'm pretty much done. I mean, I hired a pen testing company that did the pen testing, they work primarily with banks and all stuff, and you know, they found all these all these um holes, and I've kind of like patched all these holes. By the way, my friend that actually runs the company, they're like, you know, like 120 people, 12 million dollars a year um ARR business. You know, I'm in the 100th percentile of the more secure companies that they of their portfolios. You know, it's it's that crazy. It's and and again, it's like it's it's all a matter of direction. You know, it's like the same code, but it's like I'm pretty paranoid as it as it is. Like I'm always thinking, you know, again, like I just think that business-wise, being paranoid is freaking phenomenal. It's it's it's I would encourage if you're running a business, be paranoid, you know, be paranoid that somebody else is gonna pop up out of nowhere with the same service that you have, you know, with a better solution, with a cheaper pricing, with a better support, whatever. And you're always thinking like that, you don't fall into the status quo and you're not happy where you are. You're always working to improve again, the benchmark against yourself. Uh, anyways, so that's what I'm working on. It's um, it's this uh it's this inheritance platform for cold wallets. Yeah, for digital assets, exactly. That's the idea.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

That's cool. That's cool. So now that you've made it, like what is the thing pulling you forward to want to build a new thing?

SPEAKER_00 50:14

You know, it's like I'm just a builder, man. I mean, like I said, I love adding value. I mean, at the end of the day, the reason I'm building this is because I realize like none of my friends have anything documented. And I have like, you know, I have like friends from all over the world, and some of them have like a lot of Bitcoin. And it's like, hey man, like I like if I died, like I'm not really sure my wife can actually get my assets. And like, that sucks. I mean, like, you worked so hard, you sold your business, you bought all this Bitcoin, and now you you die, and then your family doesn't get it. It doesn't make any sense. So, like, that's kind of like the purpose. Don't get me wrong, it's like I'd love to sell the company again. I just think that it's fun. You know, it's like it, I mean, if you sell if you sell a company, it means that we build something that is so valuable that somebody else is willing to pay you, you know, money so that they can actually take it to the whole, you know, to a next level. So that's kind of like the motivation. But then again, it's it's very different because how can I put this? It's when you're working uh for the fun of working versus you're working because you need to, you know, make payroll or whatever, it's just a different vibe, you know, it's just more fun. You know, I gotta tell you, like the last three months have been, or the last four months have been like the funnest you know moments of my life. And I'm building stuff and I'm just you know working with Claude, and Claude is like reminiscing of working with a team. It lies, it doesn't do stuff, it's jumps, steps, whatever. But then again, it's all about direction. You know, this is like me managing my team, and it's all about direction. So it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

I enjoy it. Last question for you. How has building businesses also built you up as a person? And and what are some of the most important things you had to learn to get to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Well, there's two things. Number one is being vulnerable. You know, when you're building a business, like people that are working for you, a lot of times they think that your life is perfect, that nothing changes. And it's like I had this conversation years ago. Like, you know, I used to put like these one-on-one for people from the team, uh, like 20 minutes. And on one of those one-on-ones, we're like, hey, Alejo, like your life is so perfect. I mean, it's like, you know, how do you make your life so perfect? And I was like, oh, buddy, you know, you are so fucking wrong. I mean, let me, you know, I'll be I'll be happy to disclose like the laundry list of shit shows that I run to in this in every single day of my life. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And that's just being vulnerable. And then I learned how to be vulnerable in front of a team, you know, like, you know, that hey, like I screw up, you know, just think that don't work. I mean, I have I have issues with my wife, I have issues with my kids, I, you know, like life is hard. Like being uh being a human is hard, you know. That's one one big takeaway. And then the other big takeaway is make sure that you develop yourself as a human being. I used to have a um a business coach from uh from Sacramento, and he was my business coach for a couple of years, right until until COVID. And he followed up with me a couple, you know, like a year ago, whatever, or two years ago after I sold the company. And we were chatting about this that when you don't work on yourself and you only work on your role, what ends up happening is if you sell the business, eventually you sell the business, or you turn in your job, what happens is you didn't develop your identity as a human being. And your identity was pegged through the role. So when the role goes away, there goes your identity. And what ends up happening, like in my case, you know, when I sold the business and it was like, hey, we're gonna get an external CEO. I was like initially like, what? And then I was like, hey man, who started the business? Me? Who pushed up the business? Me? Who scaled the business? Me. You did all these things, who's been the CEO for the last, you know, since the company started me. So it's like, check, check, check, check, check. I don't care if there's a new CEO. So suddenly, when the new CEO came in, it's like a lab coat. I took my CEO lab coat, took it off, and gave it to the new CEO and helped him, you know, put it in and told them you have a secret pocket and yada, yada, yada. Now, if you don't work on yourself as a human being, when that happens and you as a human become the role, when they take off the coat, imagine that the coat stuck to your skin. So you have to take it off. But you know what? As you take it off, it's gonna rip part of your skin apart and it's gonna be really, really painful. And once you take it off, you're gonna have like scars that are gonna hurt for who knows how long. And in some cases, people never recover. Like, hey man, so what do you do? Oh, I used to be the CEO of Comet Sales. I'm not asking you what you used to be, I'm asking you what you are today. So, again, second takeaway, work on you as a human being. Don't let yourself become the role that you have because the role is temporary. And again, you might think that it's permanent, but it's always temporary. So, and I've seen this plenty of times with people that I know, with friends, that suddenly they're they they've just focused on developing the role, the world and they're the best, but they never worked on them as a human. And when their role goes out, there goes their identity. And suddenly, when you don't have an identity, it's like, hey man, you know, you're like a fucking boat floating in the middle of the ocean with no sail and with no um with no direction. You're basically kind of like there. Imagine that's just a scary thought. You know, life, life just becomes like freaking, you know, it's like a nightmare, man.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Well, thank you so much for your time today, sharing your experience. Uh, I've known you for a couple of years, but only today did I realize you are the most positive person I've ever met. So thank you for teaching me that.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

I appreciate that, but it's like at the end of the day, it's like, listen, it's like it's like very simple. You know, it's like, you know, there's always like two options. So I like I'll give you an example. Like I had two heart attacks, right? And then suddenly it's like, oh shit, like I almost died twice. You know, it's like, well, option number one is I can sit down and I can cry and I can say like life is not fair and this and that and blah, blah, blah, whatever. Or option number two is I can take the experience from the heart attacks and convert it into rocket fuel and eat it, you know, and use that to just to become more powerful. So I always take the ladder, you know. So at the end of the day, why not? I mean, it's your choice. When people complain, like the world doesn't give a shit. Like the world doesn't care. The moment that you realize that the world doesn't care, then it's on you. Like, you know, it's like if you wanna if you want to do something, I mean it's it's like when people complain, like, oh my god, life is not fair and this and that, and it's so hard. Like, yeah, man, like do something about it. What are you doing about it? Like, oh, I'm not making enough money. Well, what are you doing about it? Have you asked for a race? Well, I'm afraid. Well, then don't complain. You see, so so, anyways, uh again, I'm a pragmatist, and yeah, I'm I'm why not, man? I mean, like, that's why I love studying ancient history, because when you study ancient history, you realize that we live, this is the most magnificent moment in all of mankind to be alive. No other when people complain about, oh, there's so much violence going on in the world. Have you studied like ancient history? Holy shit, dude, that was fucking like, you know, like again, like with the Assyrian Empire or the Persians and like think about like Genghis Khan, like the Mongols, you know, like how did the Mongols roll? It's like, hey man, we go to a city state, knock, knock, we want you to become part of the Mongol Empire. It's like, no, fuck you, we're not gonna open the door. It's like, okay, here's like the two options either you open the door and you become part of our empire, or you don't open the door, we're gonna seize your city, and once we go in and we will get in, we will kill every single person in the city and we will erase you. And it's like, well, go for it. And they did, and they killed everybody. So it's like, again, we live in, I mean, like that doesn't happen. Sure, we have conflict and shit happened, whatever. But it's like, hey man, this country has decided that we're gonna eradicate this whole country from the face of the world and we're gonna do it. That doesn't happen today. It used to happen all the time. Most people were slaves, you know, like I don't know, like a couple hundred years ago. So when you think about it, I mean, why not be positive about it? I mean, it's like, what are the odds of you getting a cut and dying? What are the odds of you getting a car crash? I mean, listen, you get a car crash and you're freaking, you know, torn into pieces. They take you to an ER, it's gonna hurt as hell. But you know what? You walk out and you're alive, and a couple months later, you know, life goes back to normal. So when you think about all those things, why not be positive? You know, it's just easier and it's more fun.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Proving my point as we speak. Thanks so much for your time. No, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

I appreciate the invitation.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

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