How to Get What You Want

The shift to online bids with Kevin Gilbert

Susie Tomenchok Episode 50

Ever wondered what it's like to be an auctioneer? Join us for a fascinating chat with Kevin Gilbert, a seasoned auctioneer from the UK, and discover the many layers of the auctioning world. From working auctions for cars and livestock to navigating the realms of real estate, Kev shares his diverse experiences and insights, starting from his early days with his antique-dealer father to his now pivotal role in his current firm.

We delve into the shift from in-room to online auctions, that happened after the pandemic, which has exponentially increased the potential buyer base. Kev also gives us a glimpse of how virtual bidding works and the differences in real estate perceptions in the UK. We round off our captivating conversation with Kev by revealing the art of leveraging relationships. This episode is a goldmine of insider insights and practical advice from an auctioneer.

Connect with Kevin Gilbert:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinlgilbert1/
http://www.cliveemson.co.uk

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www.susietomenchok.com/services

_____________________

Remember, negotiation is more than a skill—it’s a mindset.
💕Susie
www.linkedin.com/in/susietomenchok


Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leaders with Leverage Podcast. I'm your host and negotiation expert, suzy Tomonczuk. It's time to be your own advocate and negotiate for what you really want out of your career, not simply the next role or additional compensation. I want to show you that negotiation happens each and every day so that you opt in and say yes with confidence. Together with other business leaders, you'll learn the essential skills you, as a leader, needs to become that advocate in growing your professional skills, to increase confidence, gain respect and become the future leader you're poised to be, and when you face a high-stakes situation, you're ready, no matter how high those stakes are. So let's do this. Let's lead with leverage.

Speaker 1:

Hey, welcome to Leaders with Leverage. I am super excited about this episode because I am joined today by a very close, dear family friend who is from the UK and is an amazing leader and executive and is in a really interesting business, and so, and funny enough, he is currently in the US at my house. But we thought it would be best to look side by side so it wouldn't be like everybody had to see our side faces. So welcome, kev. Welcome to Leaders with Leverage.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Suzy.

Speaker 1:

Should I call you Kevin, just to be official here.

Speaker 2:

No, Kev's fine.

Speaker 1:

Kev's fine Okay good. So you're an auctioneer and it's all around estates and real estate. Tell me what that means. First of all, Help us understand what you do for a living.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, first of all, we are invited to go and look at properties on behalf of clients, and the word in England, certainly the UK property, encompasses residential properties, whether they are houses, flats, condos, as you would say. In the US they can be cottages, country cottages with roses around the door, classic country cottage. They can be commercial properties, both vacant and let and subject to a tenancy, and they can be land anywhere from a few square meters or square feet, as it is in the US, to several acres. So that's pretty much the variety that I get involved in. So every day is different and every client is different. It can be a corporate client, it can be a private individual and it's a collective property or real estate auction that we hold about eight times a year and we generally have anywhere between 100 and 200 lots to offer on each auction. That's it in a nutshell, really.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so is that like, instead of we have real estate agents, and so is this how everybody purchases their homes?

Speaker 2:

No, I mean the vast majority of property will be sold through the realtor that you have. In the US, we call them estate agents. But there are certain properties which will go to auction, sometimes because of who the seller is. Because where we deal with a lot of property that is corporate, they need to show that it's an arms length transaction and similarly, if we're dealing with a deceased estate, there may be a single property to multiple properties that again they need to show a completely arms length transaction and so that they are seen to be obtaining the best possible price. And it's that phrase, best possible price, which is why so many properties go to auction.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, I can't wait because we are going to talk a lot about negotiation as well on how that fits in. But so tell me, how did you get into this? Tell me kind of your journey, what did you study and how do you look at leadership? Kind of give me your view of the world, if you will.

Speaker 2:

Well for the viewers, for your viewers. Susie and I have never really spoken about this.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I knew.

Speaker 2:

Susie is about to learn how I got involved in auctions. My first involvement in auctions was that my father was an antique dealer. I did go to auctions with my dad and he bought various bits and pieces and then I applied for what we call in England well, we can no longer call them, but it was an office junior back in the early 1980s and it was with a firm of general auctioneers and we at the time we sold absolutely anything and everything from real estate to commercial vehicles, to hand straw to livestock. And I was caught one day pretending to auction some furniture and one of the senior auctioneers walked in from the main hall into the small hall and he saw me get off the rostrum, having heard everything that I'd said, and said Kevin, my office now.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, I'd been there six months and I thought to myself oops, I've really blown it. And I got into his office, sat down with him and he was a lovely man Unfortunately he's no longer with us, but his name was Les Wade and I have a lot to thank him for because he we used to have a rotor at that place and Les said to me well, you're clarking with me. And so that the viewers understand clarking was the person who stood or sat beside the auctioneer writing down all the information?

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

And Les said to me right, you're clarking with me on the furniture auction. One till two, we're going to have role reversal.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

And this was on the Tuesday. So on the Wednesday, having not slept a wink the night before, I stood up on the restroom for the first time with, you know, the senior, one of the senior auctioneers, les, on my side, and he said I won't let you sink. If you swim, absolutely fine, but if you sink, I won't let you sink too far. And when I, when I'd had the, the hour or hour and a half long an auctioneering session, les and I got off the restroom and he said to me you really enjoyed that, didn't you? And I said I know what I'm going to do with my career. And from then on I was there for 14 years and I progressed up, you know, up the ladder and I was conducting auctions every single day of the week and they've literally ranged from Monday would be cars and commercials, tuesday would be livestock from from pigs, cattle, sheep. Wednesdays could be anything from hand straw, milk quota, again cars and commercials, four by fours. And then Thursdays could be horses, tack and saddlery, to antiques and fine arts, to household furniture, livestock again. And then Friday would could be anything from contractors, plant, farm, machinery. So it was very varied. And somebody a few years ago said to me.

Speaker 2:

I was in Australia and I met an auctioneer in Australia and he said to me so, kev, tell me what you have sold.

Speaker 2:

And I sort of looked at him square in the face and he said, well, have you sold this and have you sold that? And I said it would be easier for me to tell you what I haven't sold. And he laughed and we got on like a house on fire and so I was there for 14 years with that firm of general auctioneers and then I got approached by a firm of real estate agents with their auctioneering arm to be their number two auctioneer. So, after much consideration, I joined them and I was there for about 10 years and then it was probably 19, nearly 20 years ago, I joined the current firm and was invited onto the board of directors after about 18 months. So yeah, that's where my that's the sort of very rough and very fast sort of progression that I've had through my auctioneering career. And the one thing I will say is that I still, even after 40 odd years of doing this job, I still absolutely love auctioneering and love going out to see people, because there is nothing better than it. It's really great fun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh, that's so amazing. So much there. I want to go back to that person. What did you say? His name was Les.

Speaker 2:

White.

Speaker 1:

Les White, I just love that you know so often as leaders we don't even we know that the impact that we can have or advocating for somebody and that's what I would call a sponsor, like somebody that sees somebody that has great talent and gives them this opportunity and kind of selflessly allows that to happen, and so the fact that he allowed you to do that and put you in a place of discomfort but an opportunity to really shine, I think it's such a great opportunity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was an opportunity that, even to this day, I will never forget.

Speaker 2:

I'll never forget him for his generosity to give up his stint on the rostrum to allow a very, very rookie you know, 16-year-old to actually take the rostrum, and I'll never forget him. And the one other person in my working career was a man that I worked with in my second, my second, auctioneering job, and his name was David Harvey, and the very first day that I met him, having started a new job, he said to me right, I am not your boss, I am your colleague, and whenever I introduce you to anybody, I will not be introducing you as my assistant auctioneer, I will be introducing you as my colleague and my co-, auctioneer, kevin. And those two people, I think, have influenced me, probably more than I realize, but they were two absolutely selfless people. And so, from those two people, I've tried to do the same with the younger members of our team by giving them the opportunity to sort of go out and look at properties themselves. But I'm always there in the background giving you know, hopefully, some advice that they'll take away and learn from.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so, how do you get in that mindset or how do you be proactive about that? Because I think we I think that's such a great tip as leaders and we don't realize where our influence will take a life on its own, like they don't even know the impact that they've had on you, and so we have to have this belief in that. But I think it's really important for people to understand how do you get more proactive as leaders? Because we're responsible to make sure that we are giving people and they might not even know what it is no Like that opportunity and seizing that. So how do you do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was a comment actually that my well, my colleague, david Harvey, nearly 30 years ago, said to me. He said you know? He said I'm in my 60s and you're in your 30s, you are the next me, and I think that what that taught me was the fact that you know as much as I love my job and I have no intention, you know, of giving up any time soon but you always have to look to the future, and the only way that you can look to the future to make sure that there is a good succession is to actually help those younger members of the team sort of come through, let them make the mistakes, because they need to make the mistakes in order to learn from them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But before they go and push the button, if you like, you know you can advise them that. What about looking at this angle? And you know, have you thought about what would happen if this happened? And so it's, you're sort of not teaching them or not not sort of taking over their role, but more as an advisory, in an advisory capacity.

Speaker 2:

It is difficult, I think you know, to have the confidence in other people, particularly when you've been doing a particular job for such a long time and you know it inside out. But you know, as they, as they say in England I don't know whether you have the same phrase here every day is a school day, and I think that's what makes my job so interesting is because every day is different and you meet different people. You know, you can meet a farmer one day who might give you the impression that he's the poorest farmer in the world because he's got holes in his and his trousers which you call pants, but and a bit of bailout wine, you know, wrapped around his waist for his belt, but actually he might be very, very, very wealthy, but he still appreciates honesty and I think it's the honesty that will prevail, because I think the more I think. A liar will always be found out. An honest person can't be found out because they're telling the truth.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I think there's a lot to be said for that.

Speaker 1:

And that builds trust. Yeah, and that's what really, you know, people need to trust their, their leaders, so that they know that they have their best interests in mind, and that's really important to keep our eye on that.

Speaker 2:

And I think it goes.

Speaker 2:

And I think it goes for both the people that you're working with and also the people that you're acting for.

Speaker 2:

So in England we call them the vendors or the sellers, but it's equally as important for the buyers or the purchasers to trust you, and there are many.

Speaker 2:

There are many buyers in England, in our auction world, that if they pick the phone up and talk to me or one of my colleagues and we give them what we think, that 99 times out of 100, they believe what we are saying because they trust us. And you know, having been in the industry for a long time, I'm in a very, very fortunate position that some of my clients I've acted for for 30, 35 years and there is a huge amount of trust. So they will send me keys to an empty property at my home address. I will go out and look at it. I will say to them I think it should be this, but you know, perhaps guide this and reserve at that, and Very few cases will they come back, and so actually we want a bit more, because they have total trust in what you are telling them, that what you're telling them is the truth, and the truth will always out.

Speaker 1:

Hey there, love this podcast. I'm taking 10 seconds out of this episode to ask you to leave an honest review. More reviews on the show help us to reach More professionals who are ready to lead with leverage. Now let's continue the conversation. As you know, I wrote a book on the art of negotiation and so like the whole idea that negotiation is around us all the time. But usually when people are buying something like this as a high ticket, this is a high stakes for people and you just some people feel that manipulation or I'm gonna be, I'm taking advantage of, and so how do you look at negotiation? You are doing a job that is very much Would be in the category of I need to be a good negotiator. So how do you look at, or maybe talk about, a story around, an interesting negotiation that would apply to the manipulation every day, kind of context.

Speaker 2:

Um, oh, that's a. That's an interesting question, and a good question at that, I think. I think, subconsciously, what I tend to do is, whenever I go out and look at a property or a piece of land or any kind of real estate, I put myself in the cellar shoes. And if I was the seller, yeah, what would I do? Would I go to auction? Or would the advice, or would I go to an estate agent, a real estate or Realtor, and then, hopefully, you know, when you get the instruction, you then jump over the fence and then become the potential buyer and You'll then sort of looking for what is the potential buyer looking for, and, and I think sometimes the seller and the buyer are looking for different things. But what you've got to try and do is make sure that there's information from both sides so that you have both a happy seller and a happy buyer. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's what you probably, that's what I probably do subconsciously, and you know if you are, if you're always trying to help people, and one of my motto is actually and and At the office, laugh when I say this but one of my, one of my mottoes to both sellers and buyers is If you know the answer to a question, don't ask the question.

Speaker 2:

But if you don't know the answer to the question, it's never a silly question. It's only when you know the answer to the question. That's when it becomes a silly question and sometimes people try and catch you out. You know, because we're all, you know, we all like a bit of a joke every now and again, although you know it is a serious. It is a serious job and it's and you know, as you say, susie, is it's high stakes. You know it's, it's a lot of capital money. It's Proportionately, it's much more expensive in the UK than it is in the States. You have a lot more land and, funnily enough, we were talking about the prices with With your, with your daughter and son-in-law, and we were talking about prices in both Colorado, denver, boulder and up in Estes Park, and and actually what you get for your money in the States is significantly more Than you would in the UK.

Speaker 1:

Wow, for us to believe that, because it feels like it's so high price here.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, it's. I'll give you an example a two-bedroom Terraced house that would be maybe 130 square meters in total would probably, particularly in Kent, would probably set you back the best part of 300,000 pounds UK pounds, I think. For 300,000 you would probably get quite a bit more, particularly the further you know, further out you go from. Yeah, that's Denver City.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Um, but yeah, no, everything is, everything is proportionate. I mean, we were a small island, we got lots of people. Yeah, that's the people means competition. Yeah competition means prices go up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So you have a lot of confidence about what you do and you have a lot of passion around it. Where did that come from? Have you always just felt, really said, fast, and I'm really good at what I do? Or we talk a lot about imposter syndrome? Is that something? That is something you?

Speaker 2:

Don't think I've always been confident. I think when I was, you know, when I was in my teams in early 20s, believe it or not, I was actually really quite shy. I, I, you almost. When you stand up in front of you know an audience, you almost put on a character, you know you become, you become an actor effectively, because it is theater, you know, and the way that you relax the audience Is to have a few jokes, and they're the same ones that just get around and around and around.

Speaker 2:

But you know, it's, it's, it's something that I don't think you can. I think it's something that you can't learn. I think it's something that you're, you know, you are inherently natural at it or not, and I know many auctioneers that absolutely hate it. You know, standing up in front of somebody, but for me, you know I'm a traditional auctioneer, I love standing up in front of people, but I Can do that. You know, I still get butterflies the night before, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2:

But standing up in front of People when I've been best man at a wedding, that is Absolutely daunting. Because why? Because you know, probably 75% of the people are in the room and it can be, you know, 200 people, but standing up in front of them. You know you rehearse and rehearse, rehearse, rehearse again and then, when you think you've rehearsed enough, you rehearse 10 times more, with auctioneering it. You know real estate, it has to come more naturally because I think you know, if you don't have the natural ability to stand up in front of you know 1500 people, 2000 people and conduct yourself, you know you're, you're sort of on the back foot really. But yeah, it's, you know you still get, I still get the nerves, don't get me wrong, you know, after umpteen years of doing it, and I think what the nerves do is they keep you alert.

Speaker 2:

Yeah and that's what you need in in the sort of auctioneering world. If you are not alert, you know you may miss a bid and that bid is costly for the client.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

And then you get a very and then you get a very disgruntled underbidder. Yeah, he says, I was bidding, yeah but, it's actually there. Interesting enough, in the UK it's actually the responsibility of the buyer to make sure that the auctioneer has seen their bid, not the other way around. So yeah, it's an interesting vote very interesting.

Speaker 1:

Tell us about how many people show up to it. Like what? How does that? How does it feel? Is it televised? How is it? How tell? Us a little bit more about what it's like for what you do and tell us a little bit about how do you know when you see people, when they're ready to buy, or what is kind of going on in your head to be able everything happens so fast. Tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 2:

This pre that horrible pandemic that we all you know, are very pleased to have the majority of it behind us. We would have in room auctions where we would have maybe 1500, 2000 people in an auditorium or a room and they you know we would offer each property, each lot, in numerical order. If you are close enough to a bidder, you can normally tell through years of experience. But you can normally tell when people are getting ready to bid, because their eyes actually become wider. They tend to sit up in the chair and they tend to get something you know ready to wave at you Since the pandemic. We were halfway through our program of auctions in March 2020, and we had to switch to online auctions For me, you know, we had to do it. We didn't have a choice and we had had a system in place for about eight years prior to that where it was completely online. So we were able, from the Wednesday I think it was the Wednesday of the 20th of March we were halfway through the auction and we had to switch the remainder of the auction to online, which we did the following week and a lot of we gave people the choice and said look, you know we can't hold the in-room auction because the government are preventing us from doing that because of that horrible word and a lot of people chose not to offer their properties via the online system. We then offered those properties that the people agreed that we would be able to do so and without fail, those people that decided not to offer the properties online rang up and said we wish we had you know, we'd allowed you to offer it online, because it then set the tone for what we now do, which is completely online.

Speaker 2:

And, as I said earlier, I'm a traditional auctioneer.

Speaker 2:

I love standing up in front of people, but my job is to get the most money I can for the client.

Speaker 2:

And the difference between pre-pandemic and post-pandemic in terms of number of people that are in the sort of auction room whether it's in-room or virtual we went from, you know, maybe 1200, 1500, maybe 2000 people pre-pandemic to something like 40,000 people Wow, post-pandemic. So a lot of people say to me you know, are you gonna go back to in-room auction? And when you say to them the statistics, they say well, you know, in fairness to you know the system, there's no comparison. So we have, you know, we have people from all over the world, including states. You know there are people that buy UK property from the states and the UK's is, or the UK property market is seen very differently, I think, because people see it not necessarily as a home, but they see it as a way to make money in the medium to long term. So yeah, it's as an auctioneer a traditional auctioneer I'd love to go back to the in-room auction, but in reality, my job is to get the most money with the widest possible audience, and that, at the moment, is online.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and how do they signal, do they use, how do you signal virtually that?

Speaker 2:

you're interested, anybody that's interested in bidding on a lot they have to register with the online platform system and they literally are given a random letter to signify that that's who they are and then they press the return button if they want to bid at the price. There's a facility on there where they can manually increase the bid more than the increment. That's there. But generally speaking, you know, it works very, very well and I think now that people have become used to it you know it's been running for well over three years now, now that they've become used to it I was actually talking to a purchaser last summer, so last UK summer, and he was sitting on a beach in Spain with his feet in the sea and a laptop on his knees and he said to me why would I want to come back to the UK, into the cold and dreary country that the weather can be?

Speaker 2:

He said I can sit in Spain, he said, and I can bid and I'm just as successful online as I would be in the room. He said so for me. He said no, he said I'm happy to continue bidding online. So you know there'll always be people that prefer the in room auction, but I think that's where the social element, you know, sort of outweighs the sort of in room, that the social element in room is better than the social element online because everybody is working remotely effectively yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So one question I like to ask everybody is is your relationship with leverage, because I really believe leverage is a positive thing when you think about it with leaders. But before I want to take away some opportunities for you, because you also keyed in on something that is just a standard practice that you said it comes automatically to you and it's looking at the interest of the other party and always considering that. You know, I went to harvard and they said if you just take 30 seconds to can put yourself in the in the chair of the other person, and whether it's a difficult conversation with somebody or it's, you know just that you need to come to some conclusion with somebody. Considering their interest yourself in their head is like the number one thing you can do. So I'm taking that totally off the table for you because you already Give us that brilliant piece of advice. But when you look at leverage as a leader and think about leverage in a positive way, how do you define that and how have you used leverage In your career?

Speaker 2:

I think one of the strongest abilities Is having the confidence in yourself to say no to something if you don't believe that it's the right decision. You know if you're talking about your career path. If you don't believe that it's the right thing for you to do at the time, say no, don't look back. You know, don't look back because whatever decision you make whether it's no, yes, maybe, whatever you decision you make, you make with the knowledge that you are making at that time and don't ever look back and say, oh, I wish I'd done such and such. You know, if you say no to a job, for example, and you don't get, you know that job then falls to one side and the next job you get, you don't like. I am a very strong believer in that. That decision that you made you made with the ability and the knowledge that you had at the time and hindsight, just a it's just a horrible word always look forward and I'm a strong believer in whatever decision you make, you make with the best intentions and you make knowing that whatever comes next, you know it's meant to be yeah, and I think sometimes if you make a wrong decision, you learn from it and I think you learn More. I think you learn quicker from making a wrong decision then you do making a right decision. And how many times of you know? And do you hear the saying you know, I wish, I wish I'd done something else. I wish I'd gone down that path with that mark. That path might have led to something even more dramatic than the path you're on at the moment. Yeah, I would say, whenever you're going for a job interview, research the company behind you, know the job and whatever question your asked, listen and I think listen is is a such a key word in business because if you don't listen, you're never gonna. You're never gonna actually give the right answer or the correct answer or the answer that you believe in. So I think in, I think in whatever business you get involved in, you have to listen to the question. I give it a precise answer back. I'm so. You know Every, every person will have a different idea as to what they want to do, where they want to go in life.

Speaker 2:

And for me, coming off that roster at the age of sixteen, I knew then that split second where I wanted to go. I didn't realize that I was gonna end up In sort of real estate because I started my professional qualifications in a general practice About a third of the way through, which is a seven year course, about a third of the way through, I realized that I love architecture, I love property, I love buildings, I love design and I switch from general to real estate and I was lucky enough to be offered a position within a auctioneering and real estate two of my passions. I'm from there, you know it just snowboard onwards. And I've been, I've been extremely fortunate.

Speaker 2:

Some might say I have worked hard. You know when, when my youngest was growing up, I sacrificed not being a dad, but I sacrificed being there full time as a dad for my studies. And I and you know it has led to a better life and it's a meant that I've been able to help both of my children. But you know, you always have to make sacrifices and that was mine yeah, I was great.

Speaker 1:

There was so much there. That was perfect way to end it. I just wanna highlight, you know, don't be afraid of no Understand, kind of what's important to you. And then listening. You know, listening is truly an art and it's something that we always need to practice, but really understanding and out of curiosity. So I love that, the no and really asking and sitting back and listening. So thank you so much have this was Full of abundance in terms of just value and goodness. So thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us, kevs on linkedin and you can reach out to I'm just gonna let them. The viewers all across the world will want to know you now. So, kevin, kevin gilbert is on linkedin and I appreciate you feel free to share this with somebody else if this was something that was interesting to you and we're really appreciative of you being here. So this is leaders with leverage. Our guest was kevin gilbert and until next time, thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of leaders with leverage.

Speaker 1:

If you're ready to continue your professional growth, commit to accelerating your career development and say goodbye to that anxious feeling in your stomach Anytime you need to advocate for yourself, then get my book the art of everyday negotiation without manipulation. In this book you'll learn the essential steps to take before entering into any negotiation or conversation, any interaction. In your day today, you'll discover what the other party really needs and be clear about what you're going after. You'll bust through your fears and boost your confidence and embrace that negotiation truly happens all around us. Head to the link in the show notes for more, and you can even get a bonus if you buy it today.

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