How to Get What You Want
Your career isn’t built by waiting for someone to notice your value. It’s built by learning how to advocate for yourself with confidence.
You’ve been told your work will speak for itself. Yet despite doing everything asked of you—and more—you’re still feeling overlooked and uncertain about your next step. Leadership isn’t just about managing a team; it’s navigating the complexities of internal relationships and consistently advocating for your growth.
On Get What You Want, Susie Tomenchok is your silent partner, empowering you with the mindset and tools to negotiate your career—and life—with intention.
Unlike podcasts that focus on climbing the ladder or hustle culture, this show is for women who want to own their careers authentically. You’ll learn practical strategies for everyday negotiations, from asking for what you deserve to confidently handling tough conversations. Because negotiation isn’t just for raises or promotions—it’s how you navigate every opportunity in your career and beyond.
Susie is a negotiation expert who understands the challenges of being in a male-dominated industry and the struggles women face when advocating for themselves. She’s helped countless professionals unlock their potential and will show you how to do the same.
If you’re ready to stop waiting for your career to happen to you and start creating the opportunities you want, hit follow and join Susie each week to build your confidence, advocate for yourself, and finally Get What You Want.
How to Get What You Want
Know yourself, know your power with James Capps
Unleash your inner negotiating powerhouse with me and the wisdom of James Capps, a dear friend and tech executive with a trove of global expertise. Join us to dissect the multifaceted nature of power in professional advocacy, revealing the four dimensions that can make or break your negotiating prowess. Whether you're battling perceived power imbalances or navigating tricky relationship dynamics, our conversation will equip you with the insights to turn the tables in your favor.
This episode peels back the layers of communication strategies that can help you rise above the challenge, even when the odds seem stacked against you. Learn how to recognize and dismantle emotional triggers, apply humor judiciously, and set clear goals to build rapport and negotiate from solid ground. Whether you're a seasoned negotiator or just starting, this conversation promises to elevate your skills and transform the way you approach professional advocacy
In this episode, we talk about the following:
1. The importance of anticipating power dynamics in negotiations or challenging conversations.
2. We emphasize the need to have a plan to neutralize one's mindset when faced with unexpected power dynamics.
3. The importance of clarity in setting expectations and goals.
Connect with James:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/capps/
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🚀 Ready to Get What You Want?
Listening is great, but real change happens when you take action. Join my newsletter for exclusive negotiation strategies, scripts, and real-world case studies you won’t hear on the podcast. Sign up now at www.negotiationlove.com—it takes 10 seconds and will change how you view and negotiate forever.
📖 Continue Your Professional Growth with These Resources:
Get my Book: The Art of Everyday Negotiation without Manipulation:
www.susietomenchok.com/the-art-of-everyday-negotiation
Work With Me: Speaking, corporate training, and executive coaching:
www.susietomenchok.com/services
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Remember, negotiation is more than a skill—it’s a mindset.
💕Susie
www.linkedin.com/in/susietomenchok
Welcome to the Leaders With Leverage podcast. I'm your host and negotiation expert, suzy Tomachuk. It's time to be your own advocate and confidently navigate what you want out of your career, not simply the next role or additional compensation. I want to show you that negotiation happens every day in plain sight, so you need to be ready to opt in and say yes with confidence. This happens by adopting a negotiator's mindset, and I'll show you how, together with other business leaders, you'll learn the essential skills and shifts in mindset you need to know. You will be empowered to naturally advocate for yourself and grow your professional skills, and while you're practicing along the way, you'll increase your confidence and gain respect, all while you're growing into that future leader you're poised to be, and when you face a high-stakes situation, you're ready, no matter how high those stakes are. So let's do it. Let's lead with leverage. Welcome. This is Adopt a Negotiator's Mindset. I'm your host, suzy Tomachuk, and I am so glad that you're here. Thank you for taking the time to be here and to be investing in yourself. This is about learning some techniques that negotiators use, because the power of negotiation is the fact that negotiators take time and are thoughtful about building the skill to make them better. And it's not about manipulation. It's about being a better human by practicing these techniques and being clear about where you're going.
Speaker 1:Today's episode we're going to talk about power, and power can seem like a bad word, just like negotiation is, because power makes us feel like somebody's taking over. But when you think about any situation, when you anticipate the power that you have or that another person has and you think about how to neutralize that, you can give yourself so much confidence in knowing where you're going. And I'll tell you, I've been in negotiations before where I'm really intimidated by the person across the table because I knew that they were a better negotiator than I was. I knew that they had more experience, I knew that they were technical when we were doing technical negotiations and sometimes just that knowledge worked against myself, because I would get all caught up in that and I would show up very small and not able to get beyond the fact that I felt like they were going to be able to negotiate me so well that I didn't have a chance. So I really had to think about this power, because sometimes this perceived power and there's four types of power that we're going to talk about today perceived power is just that. It's what we perceive about the situation, and research does show that if you're told that you are the person that's not the better skilled, you won't show up as strong as the other person that does get in your mind. So perceived power is one of the four power attributes that negotiators think about.
Speaker 1:Another one is relationship, the other one is situation and the other is position. So let me just break those down really quickly. So a negotiation or a situation, a difficult conversation, when it comes right down to it's all about the relationship. So when you go into any conversation, what is your relationship with that other person? And if this is a new relationship and you have to build trust, it's important to take time to do that. So the relationship power is what is that investment that you've made in that other person's that they know that they're important? Where do you stand in having that trust with between the two parties? That's one.
Speaker 1:The second one is positional, and sometimes that position is that person has the job you want or that person has a higher title than you. It's just something to be aware of, and when you have it you may have the positional power. But how is that playing in the situation. And then there's situational power and that could be something like somebody sitting at a desk in their office and even distractions make that situation more taxing on you because you don't have control. It can be where you are.
Speaker 1:If you're in a noisy coffee shop trying to negotiate and you're getting real distracted, that takes away from your power. So, thinking about these four, I'm gonna introduce you in our next segment to a special guest that's gonna talk about his experience with power and we're gonna talk about these four pieces of power, if you will relationship position, perceived and situational that you need to consider and the keys takeaways that you can take today to be thinking about these in your next conversation when you adopt a negotiator mindset. So when we come back we'll meet our guests. Hey, welcome back. I am excited because I am enjoying now by a good friend of mine, james Capps. Welcome, james.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, Susie.
Speaker 1:We're really good friends, but he has quite an impressive resume, so let me tell you a little bit about him so you get the gist of his perspective on this topic of power today. So James is not only executive, he's really a seasoned technology leader. He's a visionary. He did things like. He is currently leading a technology team at BlackRock. He brings a wealth of experience across diverse landscapes. He architected Comcast Media Platform and he spearheaded strategic acquisitions at EEC trade. So he has had all of these different experiences that he brings and he leads teams of engineers, of professionals, around the world, literally in his current role. So I thought James would be a great addition to our conversation today, because you bring to light so much world experience and you know that negotiation doesn't just happen in the boardroom, it happens in everyday life. And when we talk about power, tell me what that means to you and how has that shown up for you. Maybe you can share some stories from your experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know power is a fascinating thing, and I think about perhaps one of my favorite interesting quotes from a movie regarding power I think it was Harry Potter where they talked about there is no good or evil, there's only power and those of people who are afraid to use it. And I think the truth is power is a word, like politics or perhaps other bureaucracy. They're just words. They just get a bad rap, and I think power in particular is an explanation of how people are, the relationships that exist between people, and I think that there have been times where my power has served me well and there are times where others power has not served me well. So I do think it is something that is part of our, the fabric, of what we do as leaders and executives, and I think it's an interesting topic to really talk about when it comes to negotiating.
Speaker 1:All right. So when I started, I kind of introduced the idea of power. And you're right, it has a bad reputation, like the word negotiation does, and power is always a part of it. And being aware of that in the situation, it can change as the conversation goes along and there's different types. There's relationship power, position power, location power and perceived power. So which one are you gonna talk about today and which one are you gonna use the story? When did it go well for you? Can we start there?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know. I think I do have a good story. I'll be interested to hear how you characterize this power. I was starting with a firm, a small organization, and I was the CTO. Just come on board and I was looking over my P&L and was looking at the contract rates that we were paying this particular small staff org organization the name of the company was a guy's name that happened to also be one of the contractors so I was immediately you know.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, A little suspect Concerned, if you will about the overall situation forced me to maybe look a little deeper.
Speaker 2:We had five folks on staff, including himself, and I realized that they were seriously overcharging us. It was almost triple what I think the industry was paying. Wow, and part of the role was me coming in was really helping this organization become more of a technology company, and most of the employees and the leadership were not technology people. So I was a brand new animal to the ecosystem, and so when I went into the data center and met with this particular individual, I asked him about the rates. I was very polite and then he proceeded to use his power to educate me on technology, explain to me how hard UNIX is and how hard it is to maintain computers and servers, and so you know I have a tremendous amount of background there. I was a new UNIX admin, have done my share of programming, so I knew he was unaware of my background, obviously, and was trying very hard to justify those rates and, to be honest with you, that made me even more angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it wasn't a matter of saying that I was wrong, it was. He was trying to lie to me effectively. And so in one moment I said here's my position in this is that I think your rates are wrong and my background, my understanding of the rates are such, and based on this, you guys are done. And so I fired them all on the spot, wow, and I was able to get new people in that role really quickly. But you know, it was one of those situations where my situational power, you know, served me well. But I've also had a situation where I remember doing it we had to build a demo for for a customer, and our leader of that group forced us to build the demo. So it was an actually functioning demo versus a smoke and mirrors demo, and so it took us six times as long and cost us, you know, 40 times as much, and so his power didn't serve us well, and so there are times when the power kind of goes in both directions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the first one, I would say definitely situational and he did not do his homework. So that definitely imposition. You know, like he didn't understand, he didn't anticipate your background or do any background because he obviously had the power before. So he used the same script, if you will.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, very much situational yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the hierarchy that gets in our way a lot.
Speaker 2:Straight up hierarchy. You know it's kind of the emperor's clothes. You know nobody was willing to say that what he was, what, that we were wrong and good doing that, and, yeah, his hierarchical power was, was, was what put him in a position there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you really have to be thoughtful about that, because when you don't hold the positional power, but you know that the end is not going to be successful which you you knew but you could it was a risky moving forward how do you position and frame your kind of to make them feel okay, because the ego is involved, for sure, and then how do you get out of that? So we'll talk about that when we come back. We're going to talk about some tips that you can use when, when Powers in play, and I'd love to get your insight to and, james, if you apply these things to those situations. Hey, there, love this podcast. I'm taking ten seconds out of this episode to ask you to leave an honest review. More reviews on the show help us to reach more professionals who are ready to lead with leverage.
Speaker 1:Now let's continue the conversation. Okay, now we're gonna talk about some tips that you can use in power. So I'm gonna go through a couple tips that I pulled out, james, and I'll just go one on one and let's just talk about, maybe, how they applied or didn't apply or some additions that you would add. So the first one I would add or to to approach any situation is to consider the power that will be in play.
Speaker 1:Right and how it might. You know, power, if we don't anticipate it, can take us off guard, and then suddenly the power is unexpected and any kind of surprise or any kind of emotion that overtakes you cloud your thinking, and so when that happens, you kind of lose your marbles, if you will, and you're not able to move through your plan. So what do you think of that one? Is that something that you use?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really great. I think you know it's important to think through the power position of the person or situation that you're in, and you know I found that, in addition to that, you want to think through that position or their power, but also assume, look at the possibility that you're wrong multiple occasions where I thought this person, based on what I'm told, would be in a position that they ended up not being and you know my timing and my my discussion would have fallen short of had been able to pivot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's true for the guy that when your first example is that he had anticipated, maybe anticipate the power, he thought he had it, but he didn't realize that you really did, because you had.
Speaker 2:Assume that he was smarter, but then also thought that there might be a possibility that he's not yeah, that's there and so I mean he was talking to a cto. It wasn't a big jump to assume that somebody that they had brought in was a technology person, so that's fair okay.
Speaker 1:the second one is have a plan to neutralize it if it does get and can add a control. So for me, I, when I realize now I've been able to do this so many times that when I recognize I'm triggered or that I don't have the power, I, at least just in my mind, go alright, you are triggered right now, what do you need to do to zoom out, take a break, or how you get a move through this? And maybe I do it through questions, so I can. I'll leave it. So don't say something stupid.
Speaker 2:Sure, that's a that's a difficult one, I think, because you're as you said, you're in a position where that power is not as expected and so you are being forced to perform in a different way than you anticipated. So, yeah, I think going in there, and you know, for me it's about two things. I will either diffuse the situation with humor, which is something I'm good at and I don't recommend unless you know that you can do it, because that is a huge backfire.
Speaker 2:If not, If you're not good at that secondarily, I play differential and just allow you know, allow that situation to exist, knowing that I'm kind of in a negative space. So Absolutely you need to pivot okay, I like that.
Speaker 1:I like having a plan to how you neutralize the second one. So the third one is when you go in, and especially when you're not feeling that you have the power and a lot of that time set equates to your confidence what can you do to boost yourself up, to give yourself confidence that you can have the conversation maybe it is doing your homework, understanding exactly where you're going, being really clear about what are the goals of the situation you're moving into. How about you?
Speaker 2:but I think that's so important that the last phrase you made there, which is really Going in with the end in mind, because so often times we're going to a meeting and negotiation a conversation and have some sort of other expectation or not really clear what you're trying to accomplish and you know. If you're clear on what that outcome is, then you can navigate through all of the possible boulders in the way. If our goal here because of many times the goal of the meeting is just report Is just to have another meeting, it's just get to get to know you, those things are really easy to solve. If you're not getting on the right foot, then you can back away and fix that. But you know, if your goal is to close the deal, different discussion, and so I think going in with the, with the clarity of that, I think, is it goes a long way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you made me think to. It's so important that you don't get ahead of yourself. Sometimes we are so amped up that we just want to get to the end, we want to get done, but you need to like just allow yourself to kind of ease in the flow of the conversation. So I love what you just said about Create that rapport. What do you need to, yes, have the end in mind, but also be thinking about how do you build the relationship as you're moving through the conversation, so that you are building on solid ground?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think about a lot of times when you have an opportunity to meet with a very seasoned leader. Maybe you get a few minutes with the chairman of the board or the CEO or the CFO, and people will go in with this tremendous agenda.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:I only have five minutes to blow your mind.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to go in there with these.
Speaker 2:These are the things that I did. I wrote a book, I invented you know, I invented Taffy and all these things but really, if the meeting is really on from their point of view, just to have a good report and get to know you, you're going to be in different places, yeah, and so I think it's so important that you go in with and set the expectation so everybody's on the same page, because I think that expectation setting with the end in mind is so important.
Speaker 1:Awesome, that was such a good point. Thank you for that. All right, so just the three. Just to remind you the three takeaways Consider the power that's going to be in the room before you go in and make a plan for that.
Speaker 1:Two is really neutralizing having a plan to how do you neutralize your own mindset when it might get in your way or what you're going to do about it. And then the third is how do you're going to boost your confidence? And maybe that is making sure that you have a clear end in mind and you really understand where you're going through the conversation. All right, so I'm going to challenge you. And then this next segment, james, on what are you going to do to apply something new? So when we come back, you're on? All right, we're back.
Speaker 1:This is my favorite segment. So, james, as you know, I'm an executive coach and I definitely talk to people and speak about different professional things that need to integrate, especially around negotiation, but it's not powerful unless you really put together a plan or you commit to what you're going to do. So that's what this part is about what are you going to stop, what are you going to start and what are you going to continue. I did steal that. That's not mine. So, when you think about power and our conversation here, what do you need to stop doing? What is something that you might be doing that is not serving you? When it's related to how you handle power, is there anything that you can think about you're going to stop doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that one of the things that I tend to do is I tend to either project or assume a certain power situation. You go into a meeting and you assume this person is going to be in charge. You assume that they will be the one who makes the decisions or, more importantly, you assume this person, because they're a CEO, are going to be a certain way, and then I think that my biases come into play quite a bit, and so I'm going to stop allowing my unconscious biases to influence the way that I look at power when I have meetings.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good one. Okay, that's a powerful one, I'm glad, okay. So you listening, you got to think of something. You're going to stop Now, what are you going to start doing? What has this content, this discussion, inspired you to start doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, going in with your expectations in mind, I think it's something I do really well what I'm going to start doing is I'm going to start communicating those upfront. I think being clear and sharing those in the meeting go a long way. So rather than going to a meeting and saying to myself I hope we get X, why can't I just go in and say, hey, in this meeting I'd like to accomplish X? That clarity and that specificity around what I'm trying to accomplish in that situation changes the power dynamic quite a bit and articulates the goal there, and so it eliminates some unknown power dynamics that may exist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and don't get stuck in the mindset of if it's their meeting, they should do that. You can frame it Absolutely, especially if they don't do it, say, hey, time out, real quick, can we go back? Let me just, let's put some boundaries around this. And that adds such a strong power position. Absolutely, you can do it in a non-obnoxious way. I think we get in our head that when somebody does that and does a power play, we think it is. But you can be like, hey, let's get together, let's step back and let's talk about what is the goal here. This is, I'll take a first stab at it. I mean, that's not hard.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's a good one. Another good one, you get another.
Speaker 2:Gold Star Gold.
Speaker 1:Star, gold Star. Let's see if you can get three. So what do you continue to do? What have you been doing well in this area of power that you want to continue to do and be mindful of that continuation?
Speaker 2:I think for me, it's bringing my genuine stuff to these situations. I think when you even said the word power play or let me explain what's put some boundaries around that that actually gave me some anxiety, because that is so not how I communicate, and so what I do well is I do go in and I do have a conversation and I am very comfortable. I do create a collaborative ecosystem, and so if I am in a situation where power is in play or trying to negotiate something, if I am more genuine to my skills and leverage my personal strengths, I'm a lot more effective than I would be if I went in and said, look, I'm going to follow these three power play moves that I read about on the internet. I think when you bring your genuine self to any meeting, you're always better. I feel like I do that pretty well.
Speaker 1:You just wrapped it up so well. When we talk, this whole idea of what we talk about here is adopting a negotiator mindset, and that doesn't mean becoming this person that you don't respect. Yeah, you don't want to become that guy I have to figure out a better way of saying that but you don't want to become that person. Be naturally you, because that's really a really good negotiator is being thoughtful about their approach and they're using their own strengths or not becoming a different person.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that, just like we talked at the top of the show today around, the word of power tends to be misconstrued. I think negotiator does too. Negotiator is almost interchangeable in some areas with manipulator, and that's not the negotiator I am. Negotiator I am is somebody I want to win-win scenario Just always, and rarely do I want to have a win-lose scenario. So that's me just being myself, and I can be that kind of negotiator.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. It makes such great point, so it I appreciate you being here, james. You just landed so much wisdom for us, so thank you for taking the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was great. Thanks for joining us. I'm so glad you made the time to invest in yourself and to be here and learn more about adopting a negotiator mindset. Make sure you tune in next time. I'll be here and I'll bring you some more ideas on how you can make that adoption for you. Until then, I'm Suzy Tomacheck.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to this episode of Leaders with Leverage. I am so honored that you chose to spend your time with me. If you're ready to accelerate your professional growth and invest in defining the career you want, I have more resources for you. You can join my newsletter, where your inbox will love a Monday minute. It's an easy read where I share stories of how others are adopting a negotiator's mindset so that you can use these tips so that you can find success every week. And if you want to read my book, the Art of Everyday Negotiation Without Manipulation, I have a special offer just for my listeners. These links can be found in the show notes and if you want to work with me, there's more information there as well. I'd love for you to be a part of this movement to adopt a negotiator's mindset, because those who do create opportunities for themselves and they believe the investment is completely worth it. Head to the links in the show notes and just remember that I appreciate you.
