Biofeedback: A New Frontier in Mental Health with Dana Hargus

In this conversation, Brandy Schantz speaks with Dana Hargus, a mental health counselor and founder of Restore House in Ada, Oklahoma. They discuss the holistic approach to mental health that Restore House offers, emphasizing the importance of addressing not just mental but also physical and emotional well-being. Dana explains the concept of biofeedback, the significance of trauma and stress in mental health, and the role of sleep and nutrition. They explore various alternative therapies, including emotional freedom techniques and the connection between gut health and mental well-being. The conversation highlights practical steps individuals can take to improve their mental health and overall quality of life.

Transcript

Brandy Schantz (00:01.499)
Welcome to Living Chronic, I'm Brandy Schantz and I'm here today with Dana Hargis. She is a mental health counselor and the founder of Restore of Ada. So welcome Dana.

Dana Hargus (00:12.93)
Thanks, I'm glad to be here.

Brandy Schantz (00:15.293)
Thank you for being here. I really love what you're doing with Restore. Tell me a little bit about Restore House. What is it? What do you do?

Dana Hargus (00:25.902)
Okay, we are located in Ada, Oklahoma. And just as a background, I opened a mental health practice about 25 years ago. And it started really small and now it's pretty big. We have 13 counselors and we've scheduled, you know, we schedule over a thousand appointments a month. But the whole time that I have been doing,

this private practice, I've always known that I would like to address things in a more whole body way. And I've thought about, if I could ever do it, what would it look like? At one point I was contemplating, I want to have a mental hospital. That's what I want to do. And then I started looking at what that would take. And I'm just like, I think it's more responsibility than I was ready to take on. But I just feel like the model we use for wellness

Brandy Schantz (01:17.299)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (01:23.102)
often doesn't work. So that's where Restore of Ada has come in. And we have a model that is kind of a nine-week model with some extensions on the end. The initial thing is that you do six weeks of online connection with us. And that six weeks is designed to prepare you for the time that you'll be here.

in person receiving intensive biofeedback, receiving a lot of different therapies and learning about the different ways to reset your nervous system. And that's really our goal because there are things that talk therapy will not fix that you can just talk and talk and talk about them. And I love talk therapy. do talk therapy. I'm a therapist, but what I've seen is without changing things about

about maybe the way you're living, what kind of food you're consuming, do you have enough minerals in your body? What's the state of stored trauma in your body? There are so many reasons for the problems that we have and it's not one reason. That's how oftentimes it's like, depression is not a Prozac deficiency. Why are you depressed?

Let's look at it. I'm not saying that there's nobody that benefits from Prozac because I know there are people that take medication and they benefit but there's more to it than that. There are reasons within that we have control of that could actually make us more who we were created to be and that's really our goal. If we reset this nervous system and we get somebody calmed down

It allows them to become what they were created for.

Brandy Schantz (03:20.659)
You know, and that's very important. I'm very open about my mental health struggles since all of the things have happened to me. It's not easy. It's just not easy to have something like this happen in your life. And I'm one of those people who takes medication. Right now I'm on a effectsor. It was a heck of a start, but it has really helped me to do the other things. But the other things are just as important as the effectsor. It's not just the medication.

really is tuning into my life and doing the things, small things, big things, in between things, they're gonna help me to get to a better place. And, you know, it's really hard to get there, but taking each one of those steps is so important and doing a program like this really can help people. You talk about biofeedback. Tell us about biofeedback. What is that? What does that mean for somebody who is, you know, going through

So many of the things we're all going through right now and is interested in Restore House.

Dana Hargus (04:25.592)
So the simplest way to talk about biofeedback would be to compare it to exercise. Just like we exercise our body, we can exercise our brain. So you would have, and just for a visual of what it would look like, you would have electrodes on your head and they would not serve to enter anything into your head. No frequencies come in, nothing. We're simply getting a read of your brain waves that travel to the computer. From there,

you sit in front of a screen and just for a visual, you could be watching a YouTube video. Children could be playing games that are created specifically for this. the computer, based upon what, the things that I put in, the computer is going to encourage you to make more of some frequencies and less of other frequencies. So for instance, if...

If your brain made frequencies, in this case like connected to pain, because there are frequencies that will make the experience of pain better or worse by the act of calming your brain down or making it worse would be to stimulate your brain. The screen around the video would close in and become small. And that is just basically the way the computer says no.

Brandy Schantz (05:29.587)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (05:49.642)
So for 30, 40 minutes, you're getting a series of yeses and nos. When your brain is on target, the screen is wide, the volume is strong, and everything's clear. And you're able, and it's telling your brain, good job, good job, good job. And then your brain slips into a frequency that's not productive, and the computer, like the screen, closes down, and it gets a little foggy, or the volume diminishes.

And the unconscious mind desires the picture. It's not like you have to work to get it. So then your brain actually changes, alters what it's doing, and then the screen gets white again. So the goal would be just like learning to ride a bike, learning to play the piano, your brain learns to do something new. And the brain is basically plastic in a sense, not

in reality, but that it's always willing to change. And we can change it in a lot of different ways. And I think that is what we do sometimes in therapy. That is what we're working to help somebody recover from traumatic events or from things that have happened. And we begin to work to get that to happen. The great thing about biofeedback is you don't have to want to change.

Brandy Schantz (06:47.667)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (07:09.936)
Right.

Dana Hargus (07:10.158)
You don't have to, like yesterday I had a little guy here and he didn't want to be here. He was just a little boy and he wasn't happy to be here. He was very upset. And I have to say that the therapy part of our session didn't feel very productive because he was really resistant. But then we moved into the biofeedback and my perception of his brain is he's highly overstimulated.

Brandy Schantz (07:35.442)
Right.

Dana Hargus (07:36.554)
So as we begin to watch a video about science and it was fun and funny and he just relaxed and the biofeedback calmed his brain. And so just in a matter of maybe 10 minutes, we shifted from difficult rapport to like really good rapport to the point I think, okay, next week I probably need to do the biofeedback first and then try the talk therapy because

Brandy Schantz (07:56.583)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (08:04.362)
he was so much more receptive and when he left he was like bye see you next week and I'm like great you know so it's just the brain desires to do better the brain is willing to change and you don't have to want it to change you don't have to make it change for for the most of the world I believe what we're doing is lowering the idle point due to circumstances and events and

Brandy Schantz (08:15.879)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (08:27.805)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (08:32.448)
maybe EMF waves and you know just think of all the different things that are coming in and at us. Biofeedback takes that because if your idle point is really high then life happens and you have pain in your body or you you know something happens like just a flat tire or a difficult day at work and all of a sudden there's no threshold for the struggle.

Brandy Schantz (08:38.49)
Great.

Brandy Schantz (08:55.399)
Right.

Dana Hargus (09:01.868)
So you feel completely overwhelmed by a normal life event. So our goal would be to lower the idle point. And so basically now, after biofeedback, you have this big threshold for stress. It's like you're not starting at a place of complete overwhelmed. You are actually starting at a calmer, more relaxed, more organized place. And then when life comes, you have the space.

Brandy Schantz (09:02.055)
Right.

Brandy Schantz (09:06.407)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (09:18.503)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (09:31.591)
That's so important. mean, when I think about my own experience or my average listener, or even, you know, my guests who are going through very similar things like I went through, you are always on a heightened, you know, there's times I completely melt down over the simplest things, but I'm just always at that heightened spot. And part of that comes from the trauma of living with a chronic illness. And I think that

right there is where we have difficulty talking about something like this program because so often, especially women, let's be honest, a lot of women going through this, you have something that's clearly wrong and you know something's wrong and you're going into the doctor and they don't know what it is. So you're in this back and forth of going to doctors and so often the doctor will say it must be in your head, it's your anxiety.

And of course, eventually we get to that real diagnosis. Something is wrong with us. But now what we have is we have something that's real that's wrong with us, but we also have trauma from trying to get to the diagnosis. So they're both true. But when you hear some of these therapies, and I know I've been there, think, no, I keep telling you, it's not in my head. This is real. This is real. Of course it's real. But what's also real is we've all experienced trauma.

And it's not easy to deal with that, but that trauma is so intertwined with our diagnosis that sometimes we can't see the difference. And I think a lot of patients push back on this kind of therapy because it immediately makes them think of the doctor saying it's all in your head. And that's not true.

Dana Hargus (11:16.814)
And the thing is, it isn't true, but let me couch it a different way. What isn't brain related? The fact that something's brain related doesn't mean it's not true. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But...

Like if our brain is overstimulated, we have more tension in our body. If our brain is overstimulated, we're more likely to have anxiety, we're more likely to have depression, we're more likely to have... So it's like, yes, it doesn't negate the diagnosis, but truly everything starts in the brain. And when we consider the data about stress and what stress does to us and how many...

health diagnoses relate to stress, it doesn't mean they're not real. But stress has compounded this situation to the point that we don't have the capacity to recover like we used to, or we don't have the capacity to. There's just so many different ways to look at it. you know, for 20-something years people have been calling me saying, biofeedback help? Fill in the blank. Whatever the thing is they're wondering about.

Brandy Schantz (12:20.915)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (12:28.563)
Right.

Dana Hargus (12:30.656)
It's so rare that I say no. I can't promise anything. But what I've seen is everything is made better if you're calmer, if you're more organized, if you're more able to sleep. I feel like a huge thing we do is to promote good quality sleep. If you sleep good, everything is better. Won't solve all your problems.

Brandy Schantz (12:41.607)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (12:52.648)
That is the truth. That is the truth.

Dana Hargus (12:55.372)
Yeah, sleep is king. And some people think that sleep's not a big deal. They're like, I'm not worried about that. I've never slept. These are the things I want to work on. And I'm like, no. We will get to those things. But what you're going to see is if you get a good, solid night of good sleep, your whole life is better.

Brandy Schantz (13:01.555)
I've

Brandy Schantz (13:16.403)
It's amazing. mean, for people with dysautonomia out there, I mean, I've had chronic illness for some years now. I've been a Crohn's patient. I was diagnosed in 2013. So that's 12 years that I've been diagnosed. Obviously I had Crohn's longer than that. But dysautonomia really, I mean, it puts you in touch with a lot of reality. And...

You know, it is the little things, putting in that effort to calm my mind, to do the breathing exercises, to, you know, do those nervous system calming things. I go outside, I put my bare feet in the grass, you know, take all the earbuds out. just try to get some fresh air. And no, I didn't cure dysautonomia, but you know what? That good night's sleep and doing those things, that's the difference in me getting up, getting out, and being a real person.

or being completely bed bound. And one of the things I've learned and in many ways also thank you for devices and technology and things we have learned. I love my Garmin watch. This is how I can report everything I'm going through to my doctor or even to myself. And if my Garmin says you did not sleep well, you know what? I really didn't need the Garmin to tell me, because I can assure you that day, I can't function. I'm just not, everything's worse. My pots is worse. I'm fainting more. I'm falling more.

Dana Hargus (14:12.461)
Right.

Brandy Schantz (14:39.987)
My legs are heavier. I can't run, you know, all of these things. Sometimes I can't walk. Sometimes I'm just, got the cane and I can barely make it to the end of the room, you know, but those are the things. Those are the big differences. you know, healthy me would have never thought about sleep either. But dysautonomia has made me really kind of come and, you know, knock reality on, you know.

in the face and say, whoa, I really do need sleep because that's the difference in me sitting here and talking with you or sending you a message saying, I'm sorry, I just can't make it today. I'm not okay.

Dana Hargus (15:19.31)
Yeah, when our at the end of our program, during the program, you get like the equivalent to what it would take us five months about feedback. If somebody was coming to the office once a week, you get that in two weeks. So it is this intensive reset and it really is a jumpstart. But at the end, it's followed by a year subscription to something called Restore Plus and Restore Plus is just

Brandy Schantz (15:31.165)
That's amazing.

Dana Hargus (15:47.106)
all the practical pieces in one place and we look at all these different things from

supplementation to what are our thoughts and how do our thoughts impact us and what about negative thought processes and how do we identify them and change them and how my alternative things like tapping come into play and we have live Q &A's and we have so it's this whole year long process of reinforcing the things you've learned.

while you have an opportunity to continue to learn more things. Because I think our health is not achieved in some limited period of time.

We should be ever growing, ever learning, ever changing. And that Restore Plus is also something that's an open option to anyone. It's only $7 a month, and it is a reasonable way to begin to restore your health, even without, teach all the concepts.

Obviously at home you don't get biofeedback and you don't get the other alternative therapies. Though some of the things we use at Restore House, we do talk about on Restore Plus. So people would have an opportunity like, this is an at home therapy that we just happen to employ, but this is something you could do at home and here's how managing your heart rate variability might be helpful. Here's how PMF technology might be helpful.

Brandy Schantz (16:58.515)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (17:18.131)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (17:22.668)
We try to create this all-encompassing thing that really just pushes you towards that better health, whatever that looks like, because it's different for everybody. But a lot of the same principles hold no matter what your problems are.

Brandy Schantz (17:36.605)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (17:42.577)
Yes, and you use, you know, I love that everything's on the website. Of course, the website's going to be in the show notes of what happens when you go to restore house and you use some different protocols. You use heart math, PEMF, which is the pulse electromagnetic fields and melt method. So tell me a little bit about these three protocols and how they help.

Dana Hargus (17:52.588)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (18:05.646)
Okay, so heart rate variability is so interesting. I'll tell you, I don't have a ton of retained data on heart math. Mainly what I have is personal experience. I love heart math. Like when I started it, I didn't know if I really needed it. Like I just thought I'm gonna do this because I don't expect other people to do it if I haven't. And I love it. And by creating that variability,

Brandy Schantz (18:17.885)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (18:32.494)
It creates so many positive things. They talk about lower blood pressure. They talk about changing your way you manage stress. About literally, it's like you're teaching your heart to work the way it should work if it wasn't stressed. And I just think that's amazing that you can do that sitting on your couch.

You know, it's like, that's just something that I just kind of intertwine early in the morning or late at night. And I just kind of do it because it's not hard. You hook a little thing to your ear and clip it on and you start this program and on, on like, just do it on an iPad. So this program will keep prompting you by making these different beings and bongs and sounds. And then there's also visual things you can look at, but it's amazing after a period of time, how

Brandy Schantz (18:57.148)
Right.

Dana Hargus (19:26.584)
quickly that either you get on and you're already there, which is super encouraging because before I start, I try to put myself there because I want to learn to manage that even without a device. I want my days to be spent in that place because I know I'm calmer, I am more present, I am more able to do things from what I would call a place of rest.

Brandy Schantz (19:36.712)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (19:54.37)
I'm the kind of person that can get things done and I can push through. And I used to think that was a good thing. I don't anymore. I believe finding how to do your work, do your calling from a place of rest and calm relaxation is wonderful. And at the end of my day, I can tell where I did my work from.

you know, when I get in the car and go home, what I have left for the people at home is a great hint. Did you do your work from a place of calm and peace or did you do your work from a place of push? I don't want to push anymore. I've been pushing for 50 something years and I don't want to and I don't have to and what I find is the quality of what I do and the joy I have in doing it are very different from that place of calm and rest. So

Brandy Schantz (20:23.25)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (20:33.821)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (20:44.285)
Yes.

Dana Hargus (20:45.738)
The PEMF is great. I use all these things myself. I felt like we had to try things out and some things we did were like, this isn't so great. we have found it's wonderful and it's a frequency device. And you choose what you're going to do in terms of.

of what the problem is. There's PEMF for sleep, for pain, for stress, for anxiety, for just all these different things. And you can get more specific, but there's kind of like a generic thing that's kind of easier to talk about. Basically, you put it around your neck, you put it over your head, you put it over your knee, you place the device somewhere on your body, you choose something that matches what your problem is, and then you receive the treatment of frequencies.

I have given many of these as gifts and I have never had anybody that did not love it and use it every day. I tell my clients about them and many of them won't get their own and use them at home. I've never had somebody say, I wish I wouldn't have bought it. And it's relatively cheap, think a couple of hundred dollars maybe. It's not real, it's not over. There are other devices and when you do the research,

Brandy Schantz (21:45.661)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (22:01.299)
That's not bad, yeah.

Dana Hargus (22:06.318)
You'll read things that say anything under $2,500 is a joke. You're not gonna get benefit. And I just thought, oh, I don't know that I'm willing to go there right now, but I have found great benefit from a relatively inexpensive device. Melt is based around the theory. It's more of a body technique that we store trauma in fascia.

Brandy Schantz (22:21.779)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (22:32.814)
in particular in fascia will appear on the bottoms of our feet. So it's the use of blocks and other things that you stand on, balance on, do things with that help you break that fascia down and the theory is is if you break the fascia down it is a aid in releasing the trauma. So we're trying to find tools that impact all areas of life.

Brandy Schantz (22:33.128)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (23:04.922)
And you also use, you know, I just love the name of this because we've talked about tapping on this show. You use emotional freedom tap, a technique, a type of tapping. don't know. I love that emotional freedom technique. It just sounds like, yes, this is what I need. Emotional freedom.

Dana Hargus (23:25.132)
have done a lot of different trainings related to trauma and I have found many of them beneficial but when I learned to tap and I took some training years ago when I learned that I let go of the other things because I find it to be the kindest gentlest way to do so many amazing things like

I, there's rarely, there's rarely a day that goes by that I don't tap with somebody, but I don't think there's ever a week that goes by that I don't tap. I have, I've found different ways to do it. I always tend to take something and make it my own, but, I love tapping. I've had people like in a condition, like, like severe nerve pain that they saw a nerve specialist. did all these things and

They did a lot of the other work. I always think if people are willing to do the at-home work, what we do here is definitely better. But I had somebody that had severe nerve pain in the bottoms of their feet and in their ears for years and years and years. And we began to work on that with tapping and biofeedback. And she also did research and did some supplementation. She altered her diet. She was like,

Brandy Schantz (24:29.757)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (24:44.824)
the best client in terms of I'm gonna change my life here. But at this point, she rarely ever has any nerve pain. She no longer sees a specialist. She said the specialist just keeps calling her back saying, you have to come. You have to stay on top of this. And she's like, you don't understand. I really don't feel it anymore. And they're like, it'll be back. And she said, if it comes back, I know what to do about it. So it's like, so many things.

Brandy Schantz (25:05.171)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (25:13.166)
can be made better by a series of choices that we make. And tapping is a very powerful one in that arena.

Brandy Schantz (25:22.641)
Yeah, I mean, you know, the nervous system is, it's very complex. And right now there's so many people who are experiencing long COVID especially who are just now discovering the nervous system and how it can be affected by a virus. And all of these techniques, they really do help you to get through each and every day. I mean, I'm, I'm living it. I always tell people, I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you I'm curing anything over here.

But your nervous system is complex and there's so much we don't know, but we're learning. And it responds in a way that other things don't. I have autoimmune disease. I've had Crohn's disease for years. One of the most frustrating things about Crohn's is it didn't matter what I ate at all. I had zero control. And it took me years to get into remission. So it was a battle. And there were times I wouldn't eat anything at all because I was just so sick.

You know, I've been, I've been, I've done every diet you can think of, the elimination diet, the gluten-free diet, you name it, I've been on the diet. And unfortunately, you know, if you have, you know, the many people out there has a severe form of Crohn's, you know, doesn't matter what I eat, if it's gonna Crohn's, it's gonna Crohn's. But my nervous system on the other hand, I can tell you a big, if I have, I was just having a conversation with somebody this morning, I can sit down and have a glass of wine.

with dinner, preferably lunch, you know, plus I'm getting older, so, you know, anybody over age, probably, I don't know, think 45 is usually that turning point they can tell you that alcohol stops being their friend. But if I have two glasses of wine, you can forget it. I can tell you how I feel after I have a big yummy piece of bread, because I just, you know, I've cut out most.

gluten and grains out of my diet just because of the inflammatory properties. But it's the complete opposite of my Crohn's disease. What you eat really matters. I can see a big, big difference when I eat anti-inflammatory versus, you know, something, you know, like I said, like the breads, the wine. I don't even get anywhere near beer anymore. Me and beer are just not going to happen. Nor do I get anywhere near.

Brandy Schantz (27:43.397)
liquor. I keep telling everybody eventually I'll probably just end up you know not drinking altogether but it is interesting how complex our nervous systems are and how little things affect how you feel in such a big way.

Dana Hargus (27:57.229)
Yeah, we do talk during that initial six weeks and at Restore House and when we're working with people that following year at Restore Plus, we spend a lot of energy in food. Food is so important and we don't like have a specific diet or anything like that, but we just encourage real food. We encourage fermented food.

Brandy Schantz (28:11.089)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (28:21.334)
you know, that can be a real game changer in terms of gut health. And I know there are populations that can do fermented foods, but a lot of us just adding that, you know, I think a quarter of a cup of sauerkraut is equal to like a hundred probiotics or something. It's an astounding little, little tidbit because our gut is our second brain. We make more of our

Brandy Schantz (28:39.506)
Yeah.

Brandy Schantz (28:45.01)
Yes.

Dana Hargus (28:46.838)
feel good neurotransmitters in the gut than we do in the brain. But we don't spend much time thinking, how do I heal my gut? What do I need to do about gut permeability? What do I need to do about constipation? What do I, and on and on, because we cannot be any healthier than our gut.

Brandy Schantz (29:01.138)
Yes.

Brandy Schantz (29:10.129)
Yeah, you my neurologist calls the gut my little brain. That's what he says. Yeah, it's really, I mean, it's amazing. It's truly amazing. That and breathing exercises are the other thing that's really just blown my mind as to how helpful they can be. Once you learn how to do a breathing exercise too, what it can get you through in life.

Dana Hargus (29:13.742)
It's the truth.

Brandy Schantz (29:38.449)
when I had to do the, I call it the tilt torture test. Officially it's called the tilt table test, but we all know it's torture. Even doctors, you know, many doctors admit that this is torture. But I got through that hour through breathing techniques. mean, and I, obviously I'm positive for all the things. I didn't do what, you know, obviously I showed that I was very sick on that tilt table test, but I got through it was able to finish it only through breathing techniques. And I thought that that was.

very telling as to what these can do for you.

Dana Hargus (30:11.51)
Yeah, I think focusing on concrete actions that will do no harm. You know, it's like, why not try?

Brandy Schantz (30:18.245)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (30:21.58)
Why not try to alter your diet? Why not try to start your day grounding? Why not try to start doing some breathing exercises or some different kinds of stretching or different kind just there's so many different things that have value that I think people think my problems are so big. How in the world would it matter if I went on a walk? But if you do it, you might be surprised how it would matter. might, do you wonder if you're,

Brandy Schantz (30:21.788)
Absolutely.

Brandy Schantz (30:41.041)
Yes. Yes.

Brandy Schantz (30:49.341)
The little things add up. It's the little things that add up. Start with, know, my psychiatrist always says, start the day with getting some sunlight. Just walk outside. Maybe that day, all you can do, the best you can do is shuffle out there using your cane to take the dogs out. But just take a moment, sit in the chair there, out back, all the dogs do their thing and let the sun hit you in the face.

Dana Hargus (30:51.192)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (31:16.184)
That's huge. It does. it also tells your body it's morning. With all the lights we have and all the different ways that we have screens in front of us, our bodies don't know when it's day and when it's night. And letting our body know it's morning.

Brandy Schantz (31:17.351)
That's a big, that's a great way to start the day. It really does make a difference in how your day sets up.

Brandy Schantz (31:26.439)
Mm-hmm.

Dana Hargus (31:38.514)
tells our body, in about this many hours you're going to want to go to bed. That's a great thing for your body to know that and then if you go out and manage to get the sun set too, you carry it further. I mean there are just easy practical things that could make a huge difference in your quality of life.

Brandy Schantz (31:42.919)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (32:00.501)
It really does. And I have my husband doing this occasionally now. He's hard, you know, I nag him all the time, but I don't know. He does his own thing. But even he's starting to see, because I've learned that these things have some very practical application outside of being a chronically ill person. We all sit in front of our computers. We all work. We have that screen in front of us for at least eight hours a day, usually. I take little 10 minute breaks. Get up, walk outside.

Dana Hargus (32:26.605)
Mm-hmm.

Brandy Schantz (32:29.233)
Get the sun, walk around, breathe. Don't do anything. Just breathe. Look outside. I've learned how meditation and doing the breathing exercises has actually taught me how to make my mind blank in a way, which for me is wild because I swear since the day I was born, I've always got something cooking in my brain. People would ask me as a distance runner, what are you doing out there? I'm like, well, I'm doing all sorts of things. I'm coming up with my strategic plan at work.

coming up with, you know, I'd have like a whole list of things I was doing in my brain while I'm running 15 miles. But now I've actually found a way to kind of blink and just breathe and be outside. And it's really been helpful because I come back in from that 10 minute break and get back in front of the computer and you'd be amazed at how productive I am and how well I think when I take a break from thinking. It's unreal.

Dana Hargus (33:21.792)
Right, and you know, there's a lot of data about that too. They've had schools that just added an extra 15 minute recess in the afternoon and their test scores go up. This is from letting the kids go play. Why wouldn't that be true for us as well? No, the breaks are not wasting time. The breaks are making time more productive when we get back to it.

Brandy Schantz (33:29.543)
Mm-hmm.

Yes!

Yes. Yes. It's so healthy.

It is absolute. mean, it's just, it's unreal when you start to figure out the ways to calm down and unplug a little bit from time to time and just get in touch with your body and nature. It's pretty magical what you can do. And I mean, I tout this stuff. I love it, but it's made a big difference. know, September of...

2021, I couldn't walk. September of 2025, I'm doing my podcast. And as sad as it may be, I'm run walking the Marine Corps Marathon in what, four weeks? So I mean, I've come a long way. I've come a long way. So yeah, I believe in this stuff. So if somebody wants to go to Restore House, how can they?

Brandy Schantz (34:38.941)
get a hold of you, how can they do this?

Dana Hargus (34:42.542)
Well, our website has all of our contact on it and that is restoreofada.com and ADA is the name of the town we live in. It's ADA, restoreofada.com. Our phone number is 580-453-1076 and our email is contact at restoreofada.com.

Brandy Schantz (35:07.187)
I'll be sure to put these in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for being here, Dane. I really appreciate it. I love what you're doing. You know, I'm a true believer in this kind of stuff.

Dana Hargus (35:17.366)
Yeah, well, I enjoyed it. Thanks for having me.

Brandy Schantz (35:21.167)
All right, thank you for being on Live and Chronic.