Middle School Life
Welcome to Middle School Life, where innovation meets education! Join us as we explore the latest trends, share inspiring ideas, and discuss strategies to create an enriching middle school experience for all.
In each episode, your hosts, Assistant Principal Victoria Hammond and middle school teacher Dr. Jennifer Erdmann, will bring their wealth of knowledge and passion for education to the forefront.
Middle School Life
Climbing the Oak: Deconstructing and Reimagining School Climate and Culture
Have you ever pictured school as a majestic oak tree? Bear with us. Just as every tree has its climate and culture, so does every school. The day-to-day experiences form the climate, while the deeply entrenched values and beliefs represent the culture. It's fascinating, right? On this episode, we're taking a journey deep into the heartwood to unravel the complexities of school climate and culture. Let's get ready to explore the raw and real essence of our learning environments.
Climbing up the tree, we first encounter school climate - the branch of our discussion that spans safety, respect, communication, collaboration, inclusivity, and so much more. We look at how these elements intertwine to shape a nurturing environment that fosters educational growth. But as we delve further into the tree, we discover the roots - the culture. Here, we dare to highlight the challenges of remodeling a school's culture, underscoring the collective responsibility of everyone involved. Every leaf, every branch, every root matters.
Finally, we find ourselves at the top of the tree, poised for change. Inspired by Grunert and Whitaker's profound book, School Culture Rewired, we venture into the six different types of school culture and how they mold our learning spaces. We dig into the importance of communication and collaboration in instigating change, and discuss the influence of school discipline, teacher perceptions, and even loneliness in schools. It's a high view, but it's worth it. So, climb this tree with us and let's reimagine the climate and culture of our schools together.
Welcome to Middle School Life, the podcast where teachers and administrators can exchange ideas and learn from one another. Your hosts, Assistant Principal Victoria Hammond and Middle School teacher Dr Jennifer Erdman, helped to bridge the gap between educators and administrators, discussing ways to create a more productive, efficient and welcoming environment. Join us as we work to inspire change in middle school education. Let's get started.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Middle School Life the podcast. We are so glad each of you is joining us today, and today we will explore culture versus climate. They are not the same.
Speaker 3:I am Jennifer Erdman, middle school teacher in case you haven't been with us the previous episodes, and I'm going to take on school climate today because I don't necessarily think it's more important. I know Tori's going to counter me on this one, but I don't necessarily think climate's more important. I do think they are very, very different. So I'm going to define school climate as how teachers perceive the overall atmosphere, relationships and environment within a school. I think school climate actually has many layers and is really an intricate web of relationships that tie teachers, students, administrators and even parents together. But it's not just about the feel good vibes of the school and as I was getting ready my notes for the show, I found basically 10 factors in all the articles I was looking at. They all seem to have these 10 same factors that contribute to teacher perception of a positive school climate. They are in no particular order, but I feel like they are all relevant and valuable. The first one I'm going to talk about is safety and security, and I think teachers and students need to feel safe and secure in their school environment School with proper safety measures if you know what to do in case of an emergency or something bad were to happen on campus. I think that's important to know that you just feel safe on your campus. But also, I want to add to safety and security, is a low incidence of behavior issues. I think discipline and I know we're going to talk about discipline in a future episode coming up, but I think discipline should be part of safety and security Because, at the end of the day, those negative factors really play into keeping a classroom safe and an overall school safe.
Speaker 3:Number two a respectful and trusting relationship between teachers and administrators, but also the trusting relationship between teachers themselves. If you're on a team and you need to get along with all of the teachers on the team not everybody is going to. You may not like everybody that you work with, but are you able to at least work with them on a professional level, and I think that you still need to have that respect and trust. Number three is effective communication, and we did talk about this in last episode and if you didn't get a chance to listen, I really encourage you to do that, because we did talk about some positive things that help improve school communication between teachers and administrators, and effective communication allows teachers to express their ideas, their concerns and their suggestions in order to help contribute to a positive climate. I think open communication promotes a sense of inclusion and involvement.
Speaker 3:Number four collaboration. We haven't really talked about collaboration too much yet when we have collaboration that contributes to a positive school climate, that allows opportunities for teachers to collaborate and share ideas with colleagues and that can also enhance their sense of belonging and contribute to a positive school climate. And I also think that in order for a positive collaboration to happen, teachers and administrators need to be collaborating as well, because I don't think that you can have positive school climate if you don't take into consideration the teacher voice.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:So and that does put the responsibility of that on administrators, to listen. Number five I almost hesitate to use this term because I do think it has a negative connotation sometimes and that's professional development. I think schools that invest in professional development opportunities for teachers show that they value their growth opportunities.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:So the one part that I want to caution on this part, though, is we need to be mindful of the limited time teachers do have, and I think that, with professional development and I'm only, I'm not speaking for every teacher, I'm speaking for me when I think of professional development, I think of forced learning, for lack of a better word. But probably does not pertain to my school.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I do think that if professional development is aligned to the core mission and values of the school, the specific needs of the school and not a one size fits all, that I do think that that can contribute to a positive school climate. Number six is supportive leadership, and not in terms of communication, but in terms of does leadership provide guidance to the teachers when the teachers are going to them for that? So that's why I kind of wanted to talk about that with just supportive leadership, strong and supportive leadership. Number seven student relationships, and what I mean by this is a lot of times we see students that are not engaged. They're so disengaged from the learning environment and they cannot become engaged unless we focus on the relationships with them. You can't have a positive school climate and not be working towards having really solid relationships with your kids, and if you feel connected to your students, your job satisfaction increases For sure.
Speaker 3:So my next one is inclusivity and diversity, and I think that a school that promotes this tends to create a more positive accepting environment for teachers and students alike. Everybody deserves to feel like they are valued and have a place at that school, and if I were ranking these, that would probably be number one, so number nine, the physical condition of the school. I am very lucky I work on a very beautiful campus, so that even is part of a positive school culture is the physical environment of the school. And then my last one, number 10 of the 10 key factors for positive school climate is recognition and appreciation. And I think teachers who feel recognized and appreciated for their efforts are more likely to have a positive perception of the school climate. I think this should happen often, because a little positive praise and affirmation goes a long way in my opinion. I mean, I don't like the recognition, but I do like the appreciation. Some teachers like to be called out in staff meetings and things like that. Not everybody's like that, but slide a cupcake my way all day long.
Speaker 3:Thank you all day long. We're good. So this just seems simple, but things like that, I think, add to the, to the positive climate of a school. So those are my top 10.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think each one of those is extremely vital. And you'll notice that when you're talking about climate versus culture and we're talking about how they're not the same, but it's very important to emphasize that the climate, being those immediate things, directly influences the culture and are the building blocks, if you will, of a school's culture.
Speaker 3:Right. So, and I think that my next piece that I'll build upon is not only do you have to have, you don't have to have all those top 10. Those are just the ones that came up most frequently that contribute to a positive climate, but the impact that those have the impact that the positive climate has is so far reaching and it goes beyond just the four walls of your classroom. The research shows that it's it improves academic achievement. Students thrive in environments where they feel valued, and that teachers are the same way. So positive school climates improve attendance rates, they improve test scores, which we all want, and they elevate overall academic performance. So that's just one of the academic outcomes.
Speaker 3:The behavior outcomes is discipline problems decrease. Students develop a sense of responsibility and belonging. We all want that. I know in the schools that struggle with behavior and discipline. You've got to start focusing on the school climate. I really believe that, and then I think, with a positive school climate, teacher satisfaction will increase and we might be able to stop this revolving door of teachers leaving, not only leaving their schools or going trying to go to a better, what they perceive to be a better school, but really, really good teachers leaving the profession, and I think that we have seen too much of that, and it comes down to, I think, the school climate.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 3:And the last point I'm going to talk about is I mentioned my my top 10 key factors of a school climate, but I want to end my points today with how can we get there. And you'll be able to speak more to this, because leadership is my number one, but leadership can be also your leadership team.
Speaker 3:It can be the administration, but I am going to say administrators. I think they play the pivotal role, and the support and communication and commitment to a positive climate set the tone. And then then, the last thing I want to add that I didn't add yet, but I do think that it's part of how can we get a positive school climate, and that is getting the students involved directly. I think teacher voice is crucial, but so is theirs, and I think that when students have a voice in shaping their school environment, they feel ownership and responsibility, and I think that will contribute greatly to a positive school climate.
Speaker 2:I so wholeheartedly agree with that and I feel like when we take the students' voice and we truly amplify it and we and we really take what they have to say into consideration and also grounds the adults back into, you know, we're here and we're all here working and we're doing all of these things and we're collecting all this data, but we're doing it for them, and so their voice should matter, their opinions should count, because the schools we went to, in the classrooms that we were in when we were younger, are not. The kids today are not the same. Things change over time. So if we're doing things based on our experiences without getting their input, we're truly doing them a disservice.
Speaker 3:Right, and I'll add to that about their input. We do get their input in our district with the Gallup Survey and they are telling us they are screaming it from the rafters they are not engaged, they don't have much hope. They're telling us this through that survey and I don't see where we're taking that next step for them. And that voice has got to be even a bigger part of this picture, because they're the ones that are telling us and we have to listen to that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. How do we find the ways to let their voices be heard and find ways to engage them and meet them where they're at? Because that's when you're gonna start seeing real change. That's when you're gonna start seeing the engagement, is when we can relate to them and when they feel heard and valued. Because, while it is just as important to get the teachers to be on your side and to have what they need to be successful, if we're all doing things the way we think things should be done, without asking them what they need, it's almost like, if you think about it, like it's not very educated decision making, because if you really sat down and took the time to think about it, we all know we have to do what's best for them. So it makes so much sense when we're sitting here and talking about it right now. But what are gonna be those next steps that we can take to make sure that we're giving them what they need?
Speaker 3:Exactly, and they're the ones that have to be. They're the ones that give us all the data Right.
Speaker 1:So we get everything from them.
Speaker 3:They tell us so much without directly telling us.
Speaker 2:So how do we get that qualitative data?
Speaker 3:That's gotta be the next piece to include them and listen to what they're saying.
Speaker 2:And if we get that Gallup data that tells us what they need, what are some of those next steps we can take for them to tell us how they think we could give it to them? Now it's our responsibility as the adults to do research and to find practices that best fit, but it's also our job to give them the opportunity to give us that data. Like, I think I learned better in this way and everybody's gonna be unique in certain ways, but also as a generation, there are some things that all of them could benefit from and that if we listened to enough voices and pulled enough students, we would be able to understand them more and that would help best fit their needs. Correct.
Speaker 3:They've gotta be part of the equation.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. I really loved you sharing those 10 pillars of climate. I'm very passionate about culture and climate. I could truly talk all day, but I have some talking points and I know I'm gonna go off on tangents, which is the reason I tried to have talking points, because I could probably sit here for hours on end and talk about culture, and that's because I strongly believe that culture eats strategy for breakfast, and I don't know if any of you have ever heard that saying before, but it is a common saying. But what does that mean? Now, there are people who have different strengths who might disagree with that.
Speaker 2:I am not devaluing the impact that strategy and structures and systems have. You have to have those things. They are crucial. However, culture is the driving factor for all of that. So when I say or if you've ever heard this thing, I didn't create it culture eats strategy for breakfast, it means that if you don't have a healthy culture, you can kiss your strategy, structures and systems goodbye, because your culture is how your people are feeling.
Speaker 2:So the emphasis is that no matter how strong a strategic plan is, its efficacy will be held back if the people aren't buying into what you have to sell, if the people don't know the mission and vision and if the people aren't in your organization for the right reasons or if they don't understand their role, because, when it comes down to it, the people are implementing the plans and culture is how the people feel and how the people perceive and how the people function within any organization, in our realm, in a school. So if your people aren't buying what you're selling, if they don't understand their role, their role in the structures and systems and strategies, and if they don't feel valued in that culture and they're not really sure what the vision is and they're just coming in every single day in survival mode because your culture is unhealthy and even possibly toxic, then your strategies and structures basically are irrelevant because you have to have the buy-in of the people in order to have that become successful. So the culture really is trifold when you look at a student and when you look in education, you have the culture of your staff, you have the culture of the students and you have the culture of the community, and all three of those can be different because everybody has differing perceptions, but when we talk about they're different. That's really more of climate and I want to like emphasize some of those differences between what I'm talking about, culture and climate. Climate are the quick views, the little insights, basically more of a feeling or an attitude towards something, whereas the culture, it takes those perceived feelings, attitude, perceptions over time and it creates this embedded culture where this is the, basically the generalization of how things are viewed and how it works.
Speaker 2:And so I was reading it's actually one of my favorite books. I think I actually stole this one from you when I was going through a master's program and it's called School Culture Rewired how to Define, assess and Transform it. And so when you look at this book, there's a really nice, a nice chart in there that differentiates climate and culture. And I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I just wanted to emphasize a couple of the points that I thought kind of gives us a better idea, because I feel like we often use those terms interchangeably, incorrectly, interchangeably, and we think that climate and culture are the same when in fact they are quite different. And this doesn't come straight from the book, but it's almost like if you're looking at a beautiful oak tree and you're looking at this majestic, beautiful oak, like it looks, like it could be, you know, over 800 years old and it's growing into the skies, got these beautiful foilage and you're looking at the tree and you're like man, that is a gorgeous tree. The tree itself is more of the climate. It's what you're able to see, and the roots of that tree are so deep and entrenched in the ground and have been around for even longer than the tree itself, gaining all of that soil and going through you know the different seasons and it's that those roots are really what define the culture. So, if you think of it, the climate is what we see the day to day. When we drive past that tree, we always see that tree. The roots is really what makes that tree what it is, because if the roots were to wither and die, so would the tree. So that is just something how I pictured in my head.
Speaker 2:And when you look at this chart, the number one thing they say is basically the culture is the personality, whereas the climate is more of like a group's attitude towards something. So if anybody knows me like and they want to define my personality, they might say X, y and Z. But just because my personal personality is X, y and Z, that doesn't mean on any given day I might not be, you know, in a different mood, but that personality is who we have become to be over time because of our continued traits and characteristics, if you will. So it also takes years to evolve. So a culture it happens over time and it's based a lot on it starts with climate. So the climate is what it's the different personalities it creates, a different state of mind. It can be easily changed, whereas when you're in the culture, the culture is really the evolution of values and beliefs within a system. So, because this is what has happened over and over again, this is what we believe will continue to happen, and so this is what.
Speaker 2:This is how our school functions. And it's almost like if you took, if you grab leadership with like a claw and took them out for X amount of days, how would the school function on its own? It would function based on what are the things that have happened in the past. And when people come in and sometimes try to change that, people get a little defensive because their values and beliefs like this is the way it is, and sometimes, when people try to change that, it gets a little bit fishy. So it's also in here. It says culture is the way we do things around here.
Speaker 2:Climate is the way we feel around here, so there's also that difference where it's like the day to day feelings versus the way things are, and so the culture determines whether or not improvement is possible, and climate is the first thing that improves when a positive change is made. So in order to change a culture because it takes it could take months, years to actually change and make a lasting impact on a culture you can come in and make you know quicker positive climate changes and you'll feel the climate changes. And so the important part is, if you're going to come into any school as a leader, is to not just create positive climate changes short term and then Given to the way the culture has always been and then continue to just do things the way they've always been done If improvement needs to be made to that culture. Now some people might have an ingrained positive culture and people could come in and have a negative impact, but basically culture changes when climate, with all of the different climate impacts that happen over time. So basically, you can have a lot of positive changes over a short amount of time, you can have a lot of negative changes over time, and that really just depends on you know who you have around you, and I also want to say that it's so important to say this Culture and climate are really it's a collective responsibility as a whole, because really, at the end of the day, it's all about perceptions and mindset. So really it depends on how other people are viewing things to be done in the way, and the way to really help bust cultures is to do your best every day to be a duck and I don't think I've used this before but even when you're struggling especially as a leader inside, because there's a lot of things going on to push through and to do your best to remain positive and to focus on the positive things in life, because there are things we could get down in every day, but people know when you're down and especially if you're leading a school, your people are going to see whether you're freaking out about something or not and they're going to take on your reaction because, oh, this is going to be. If they're reacting like this, it must be really bad. So it's also really important just to keep that mindset of everything is going to, everything will work out, and my biggest one I like to say now is everything is figure outable.
Speaker 2:All of our listeners out there come from very different schools, different backgrounds. So start thinking when you think about your school culture, about these building blocks because these are are what guide the culture and start thinking about some of those stories you've heard over time pertaining to these things, because these are what creates the culture and the culture wants to manage any organization. So the culture wants to be in charge. So it's really what is your widespread beliefs, your deep rooted beliefs in your organization that people believe to be true. They've heard the stories multiple times and these are the different things that they talk about. So it really is the build up of the climate over time. So, basically, whether the climate is mostly positive or mostly negative, or mostly collaborative or mostly lonesome, however, that is normally is what most likely will continue.
Speaker 2:So you have your climate over time, your mission and vision, the language people use to describe things, the humor of the school. So what humor is appropriate? What humor is inappropriate? What are some of those things you guys joke about? The routines, rituals and ceremonies of a school campus. So what are those things that we do? What are those things that have always been done? Culture change absolutely is attainable, but that, basically, is the root of the culture. So there's also types of school culture and when we look at them, there's six generalized types of culture, and they are the number one type. What you truly want to have is collaborative. Then there's comfortable collaborative, contrived, collegial, balkanized, fragmented and toxic, and so those are the general types that Gruner and Whitaker talk about in their school culture a rewired book. But if we don't truly collaborate and trust one another, then most likely it's one of those other cultures. And I could go off into each one of the different types and describe them, but I know that a lot of us have other things to do.
Speaker 2:So maybe we have another episode one day where I dive into those types and what easily add to this one what each one of those looks like, Because I think that when we look at each one of those types, you might start to feel some similarities. So I'll also share in the blog and the links that the link to this book that you could read, because this is probably one of the best reads I've found on school culture and it could help you start thinking about what are some of those practices in your school that you could start and it the it. Towards the end of the book it starts talking about jumps jump starts, if you will. So there's different things that can jump start change to a culture, because culture is not some mystical power that thrives on superstition. The locus of the control is really in the scope of school leadership and people who try to start that change.
Speaker 3:That's what I was thinking of is, when you do want to change the culture, you have to get the teachers on board to change the culture, but if you don't have the administrator willing to do it, then nothing's going to change. I mean, you're not going to have that happen.
Speaker 2:You have to have buy-in and you have to have those relationships, which is why they are so important. You have to have, even if it is one or two people on campus and they happen to be two teachers. They have to have a good enough relationship with their administration to go forward and speak up and say, hey, this is what I want to try to do to change, this is how I want to bust our culture. But I bet if we work together we could find a solution. And I bet if we stop looking at the problem as this giant monster and we start breaking it down little by little, what's one thing we could do to improve this?
Speaker 3:And I think if you're changing school culture, you do have to change it slowly but be deliberate. And that gets back to my piece of positive climate where you have to have communication and collaboration. If you don't have that, then you can't build into your culture, you can't build upon your culture If you don't have those pieces 100%. So it only takes a few people, like you said, right, but it's to create a movement, right, because that's really what it is, correct.
Speaker 2:A culture movement.
Speaker 3:But you have people. You have to have people willing to do it, and that again goes back to having confidence to do it. If you're a brand new teacher, you're just surviving.
Speaker 2:Survival mode riding the bike on fire Right.
Speaker 3:And you know. But then if you're a veteran teacher, if you've been there for forever, do you have the energy, do you have the mindset to be wanting to change your culture? Right?
Speaker 2:So how do we jumpstart that change? How do we communicate with people and how do we build people up? And I know that's part of the reason we do this podcast is, how do we find those people who are willing to be those jump starters, who are willing to take on the risk, who are willing to look toxically positive, which we will touch in another episode. It's not actually possible to be toxically positive? I don't. I know we disagree with it but?
Speaker 2:but I feel like it's not possible if there's genuine authenticity behind it. So thank you all so much for joining us. I could truly go on for another four hours about culture, but we really want to hear from you. What are some of your questions, what are some of your thoughts, and we might expand on this in another episode. We also want to let you know that, coming soon to you, we will be talking about school discipline. What are some of the roles and responsibilities of with school discipline, what are some of those teacher managed versus administrative managed discipline situations, and we'll talk a little bit more about what are those teachers' perceptions of discipline. So we're going to approach that fun subject in our next episode and that could be like 10 episodes actually.
Speaker 2:It might go on as we're, as we're getting to know how this podcasting works and how talking with you guys works, and hear your voices about. What do you want to hear about more. We will be taking that input and utilizing it to to help you guys learn and grow and to to help you feel valued and heard as well, Because sometimes it's just that sometimes it feels lonely and it feels like you're on an island. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be, you know, thinking this way, Like if I'm in a school and I'm trying to be positive all the time, but I really have all of these questions. We want to hear those things and we want to be here to have conversations and to answer your questions as well.
Speaker 3:All right, everybody that's going to do it for us and, as always, please stay engaged in shaping your positive learning spaces and, until next time, keep those conversations going.
