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ISI Brotherhood Podcast
A podcast for growth-minded Christian businessmen who desire momentum and accountability in their business, family, finances, faith, and personal wellness. Each week, Aaron Walker, also known as Big A, shares authentically from decades of business ownership, marriage, and raising a family. He takes on listener questions and deep-dive into FORGE episodes with tried and tested co-hosts. Subscribe and visit our website https://www.isibrotherhood.com/podcast
ISI Brotherhood Podcast
132. Wrestling with Never Feeling Quite Worthy Enough
What does it mean to be truly worthy? In this soul-searching conversation, Aaron Walker sits down with Darren Gray, a man who's spent decades walking alongside NFL champions, coaches, and influential leaders, to explore the profound disconnect many successful men experience: achieving everything yet still feeling like they're not enough.
Gray, who co-authored "The Jersey Effect: Beyond the World Championship" and counts Tony Dungy among his closest friends, pulls back the curtain on what happens when worldly success meets the human need for meaning. Through powerful personal stories and observations from his work with elite athletes, he reveals how even those who've reached society's pinnacle of achievement often struggle with feelings of unworthiness.
"Strong confidence in the Lord coupled with deep personal and professional humility" emerges as Gray's guiding principle for authentic leadership. This rare balance—exemplified by mentors like Tony Dungy who demonstrate "confidence void of arrogance"—offers a path forward for listeners caught in the performance trap. Gray shares how he intentionally designed his "midlife crisis" to create space for what truly matters, leading to projects like the Pro Player Prayer Project and transformative tours to Israel with NFL players.
The conversation takes an intimate turn as Gray discusses his 31-year marriage, sharing practical wisdom about understanding your spouse's unique needs rather than forcing them into your world. He vulnerably recounts personal struggles including losing his mother during the pandemic, demonstrating how these "dark nights of the soul" test and ultimately strengthen our sense of worth.
For any man wrestling with success that somehow still feels hollow, this episode offers a liberating truth: "The corporate culture of more and now is a lie. Enough can be enough." Join us for a transformative exploration of what it means to find peace, purpose, and worth beyond performance.
Connect:
- Connect with ISI Brothers: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/
- Join the ISI Community: https://www.isibrotherhood.com/isi-community
- Big A's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronwalkerviewfromthetop/
- Darrin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrin-gray/
Discover the brotherhood that sharpens you. The ISI community is free for 30 days. Join now at isibrotherhoodcom. Forward slash community.
Speaker 1:Hey, well, welcome back to the ISI Brotherhood podcast. I'm your host, aaron Walker, better known as Big A. Today's conversation is one of those that hit home for us all, no matter where you're at in life, no matter what you've accomplished or not accomplished. We're talking about what it means to be worthy and why so many of us, even with the world standards, saying that you're winning, we still feel like, hey, man, I'm truly just not enough. Well, my guest today has spent a decade decades, that's plural in the heart of the sports world, working alongside NFL players, coaches and leaders. He co-authored the book the Jersey Effect Beyond the World Championship. It's about pulling back the curtain of life after the Super Bowl and really seeing what it means to win.
Speaker 1:Darren has served for decades alongside countless notable leaders, but my favorite. I'm going to be honest with you. He's worked for decades alongside Tony Dungy and I can't tell you, man, what I think of that guy. He's a phenomenal guy and Darren is a very close friend of his. He also founded the Pro Player Prayer Project. He's led 40 NFL players and coaches on four tours to Israel, one of my favorite places on earth but also man. He is active in the entrepreneurial space. He's president of Brand Direct, he's partners in Align Brand, he's a partner at Fusion Promotions and Live Events. This list goes on and on. And he's the executive director of media for Athletes in Action. But the best part about Darren is he's the husband of his beautiful wife for 31 years now. He's got four grown children, but he's passionate most about his faith, his family and really leaving a legacy.
Speaker 1:Darren, welcome to the ISI studio. Man, it's so good to have you. You came all the way from Indy. I know you were here in Nashville on business, but you said hey brother, let's make it happen. And we were able to set up the studio and make this live interview happen. And we don't do this very often and I think I'm going to do it more often, though I kind of like it. I like you being here in person. I can see you, I can feel you, I can feel those emotions, and so I'm pretty excited about you being here. So what brings you to Nashville?
Speaker 2:Sports media mission. You know I live at the intersection of those three things. I live in a Sharpie world. Yeah, like people want you know, these men that they think are heroes or excellent in some way, to sign a thing and somehow that signing of the thing makes it maybe even more valuable than it was before. And it's sort of an interesting thing as we explore today the idea of worthiness, as we explore today the idea of fame and culture. And how do we have influence? What is leadership? How do all these things sort of sort themselves out? And so I was down here to meet with an NFL alumni who's now acting. He's got dozens of movie credits.
Speaker 1:He lives here in Nashville.
Speaker 2:This is the creative content capital of the world. Yeah, sure you want to produce high character content that moves the soul, gets us to look inside of that, along with places like Bentonville, where brands like help to support those projects, and along Atlanta and Chick-fil-A and FedEx and all the brands that come alongside that elevate the messages that then allow us to do the work that we do and reach the audiences that we reach. So it's a pleasure to be here. We have so many common friends, you know men that have interacted in in my life and made meaning and then got to journey along with me to some special places and meet some heroes and have some experiences, of which we've been able to do with the pro player prayer project. But I got to shout out, derek.
Speaker 1:Derek's in pain. He introduced us. I got to shout out.
Speaker 2:Andy Dr Champagne. Champagne introduced us. Man, I got to shout out Andy, dr Andy. Yeah, andy Garrett, his role in the life of my son, yeah, how we minister to the sons of men that we love, yeah, somewhere in the middle of that is the worthiness. You know, because that's my Zachary, and how he leans into Zachary means the lot. You know that's my Zachary and how he leans into Zachary means the lot. And oh, by the way, I've been on his Duffy floating around outside John Wayne's home in Newport. So the point is we do special things together. We're on a journey.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be here live. It's a pleasure to sort of see you in your native habitat.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. So when we talk you know where it happens from right here. Hey, listen, you really live a surreal life, quite honestly. Looking from the outside, you look and everybody knows. Darren Gray knows who you're involved in related to the sports world and I had the privilege of coming to one of those breakfasts and being there and seeing the Bart Starr Award and being involved in that. That was really cool the Pro Player Prayer Project. Those two guys were in the room, jim Zorn.
Speaker 2:They sure were Garrett Wallow. Yeah, these guys are playing, garrett's still playing, but anyway, keep going.
Speaker 1:That was so cool. But I've got to know this You've been to countless Super Bowls, week after week after I mean year after year after year. What is something that stands out to you? What has been an experience that you've really enjoyed? Something that's just notable, that gives you kind of pause and you're like man, that moment at that super bowl was phenomenal. I'm doing this selfishly just because I want to know man?
Speaker 2:that is such a really quintessential question because it meets me where I am because, because normally I live in, I am second spaces, like I lead from the second chair. Normally this is Tony Dungy or Ray Lewis or whoever is the voice of reason, value creation, whether it's pre-evangelism, like set things up to guide people to think about who they are in Christ, or whether it's hey, think about your mission, think about your family. All pro dad. Many of your listeners may know about that brand that I was. You know, I was at the middle of that whole the alchemy that brought that together with a whole lot of other people on whose shoulders I stand.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to answer your question. That's what put me there, because I designed my midlife crisis. I literally designed it, wrote it up still in my billfold, kind of how I think about what I was going to do for the second act. And by leading from the second chair in my second act, I designed an experience that allowed me to go to places, find out what God's doing, go there, and so I was able to do that and still do with some really special guys, and it's not even important to name names so much as other than because you can look at my Instagram feed and Darren Gray 2020. And you can see some of those quintessential moments, but the ones that hit me just right. Man Darren, I read your book. Man, darren, I read your book. This particular paragraph that I poured my blood, sweat, tears, soul into it hit me just right and I live my life differently as a result. Or you were a change agent. It could be the smallest thing, but it's when an athlete that I know so well that take the time to understand who I am and he might even ask me what my middle name is, and if I told him, it's the same middle name as my father, and so you know.
Speaker 2:The funny story is that sort of, in my elementary school classroom, there were four Darrens. There were only 28 kids, but there were four Darrens. Now, the reason why if I had, you guess you'd figure out real quick it was Bewitched. So there was a zeitgeist going on, a popular culture, a show on TV Bewitched. His name was Darren and there were a whole bunch of Darren kids because all of our moms had crushes on Darren. I think that's hilarious, but the story goes like how does that then inform who we might become? And praying parents, praying grandparents and, you know, not always doing things rightly but finding a way to find my right path plan. That path Everybody read Halftime. And you know Mr Buford and all that wonderful right, john Maxwell, all the leaders that got us to where we are, because we all stand on their shoulders right, virtually. But then sometimes you get to go be with the Rick Warrens of the world because you're bringing with you these special guys that have a mental leadership and you just get to be observant.
Speaker 1:All right, you got to go back. You got to answer my question. I'm going to narrow your focus. You got to give me one specific episode that's happened at some Super Bowl outside of.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to name the linebacker. No, don't. This linebacker came up to me at this event. He looked me in the eye, he grabbed me. I am so glad you're here and it wasn't because I brought all these players, although I did bring a bunch of players because it was something he cared about. And I'll name the cause It'll help IJM, International Justice Mission.
Speaker 2:They had Lauren Daigle, like singing, like she, oh man, worthy you want to talk about worthy, that young lady, her pipes, but we were. That was just the. You know, steak and potatoes, all that, but the real icing, like that special brownie that you get to eat, you know that espresso brownie that brings sort of this. This moment where you go, whoa, we're doing something that's way bigger than us. And you look at me, I'm glad you're here, how is your wife? And in that moment it's like that's the worthy, Like it's not that I am worthy and yet, hopefully, somewhere by the life that I live, the trust that I've earned, so hard to earn, so easy to lose, how do you bring in those moments and just be attuned? So that just happened last year. I could give you 10 more you know, but that's hopefully that that touches the note.
Speaker 1:It does, and I'll tell you I'm so surprised at your answer. Quite honestly, at the same time, I'm not surprised at all. No, I thought it was going to be some, you know, play, like when the titans played the rams and we were you seconds to go, but it was about a relationship. But one of the things that's pretty cool is they call you the fire starter in the good guys club. For those that are listening that don't know what that means, explain that. What is the fire starter?
Speaker 2:Tony calls me the go-getter. In other words, we got something we want to do, god's moving, he'll do it. Go get it. Yeah, and so it's funny, I don't know guys Fire starter, like there's a rabbinic story. I've been to Israel four times now with NFL cohorts In a great place.
Speaker 2:Man, when you stand in the footsteps of Christ or you stand at a podium where he no doubt taught at the synagogue of Magdala, and you're there with special people and you're just like God is moving and you just know, you literally know. You know that, you know that, you know that, you know, and all the people there with you know too.
Speaker 1:You know what was cool the Mount of Olives and thinking Christ is going to come back right here. He's going to walk right across the street and he's going to go through that Eastern gate Come on and nobody's going to stop him, he's going to come there again. And you're sitting in the very place you know and thinking about the place he ascended and the places that he preached and being on Galilee, and crazy isn't it?
Speaker 1:It's probably my favorite place I've ever been. I've ever been. I've been a lot of places I know you have Probably my favorite place I've ever been.
Speaker 2:You've been there four times. I'm jealous. The Sea of Galilee, you guys, it's just like a lake. It's Lake Gennesaret and Peter walked on the water there for a second. Jesus did you know.
Speaker 2:There are all these moments, but when you stand at the Mount of the Beatitudes, there's only Only one place. It could be, you guys, because it is a bowl where five or six thousand people could have gathered. Because, like a human voice, I got a booming voice, like if I project at full, you'd be like too much. How did Jesus project that? And so there's a place at the Mount of the Beatitudes, and the cool thing is, when you look over the edge where this bowl was, where the people were, no doubt, and he's collecting loaves and fishes and teaching about salt and light and cities on hills, and looking across the Gentile region and all that, you look down the hill and there are tens of thousands of mustard plants. There are billions, I might say about 8 billion mustard seeds. Why 8 billion? About the number of people? And each one of them has their own and they got to find their own belief.
Speaker 2:But, man, if you want to ask me why, I believe, hey, I'll tell you my path. But until that time I got to earn the right, I got to be in the good guy club. It's back to this idea of being a fire starter, and then I just sort of just pay attention because men have needs, and so, you know, I don't do as much I do. Couples, you know, guys, yeah, but really a lot of mine has to be right to men because like, that's the human condition. Yeah, that's monogamy. That's my relationship with my 31-year-old wife, my sweetheart from childhood, who I met when I was 12 years old. I love that, like that woman is me and I am her.
Speaker 2:And in the midst of that, imperfectly so, how do we make a journey of our life? And this empty nest phase where I can be about where I want, when I want, and that's a unique thing, you're in a similar situation and many of the men listening are there too and I go. Well, where do you want to be? Where do you want to be? Where do you want to be? Who do you want to be with? You got to be intentional, at peace, on purpose, at a pace. Oh, whose pace? His pace, my pace, his pace, and that's the tussle that we have in the worthiness, it's the tug of war.
Speaker 1:It's the tug of war what comes to your mind when you even think about the theme of today's topic worthy, when in my introduction I even said you know, sometimes we're in a good spot, we're succeeding financially by the world standards, we're doing great, but I don't feel worthy. It's like you feel hollow and empty, and I deal with a lot of high net worth individuals that deal with this very issue and they're like I've accomplished everything. I've got plenty of money, businesses, homes everywhere, but there's still something missing.
Speaker 1:Talk about some of these champions that you're around, these athletes, these leaders, these influencers and people who, from the outside, they look like they got it all together. They look like man I'm on top of the world, best running back in the world, best quarterback in the world. Yet even they struggle, don't they, with feeling worthy.
Speaker 2:Yet even they struggle, don't they, with feeling worthy. Yeah, you know, strong confidence in the Lord coupled with deep personal and professional humility. Say it again Strong confidence in the Lord coupled with deep personal and professional humility. Find those guys and then just see where God is moving in their life and be supportive. How can I serve you? The most powerful business line of all time. And when you start thinking about that line and then having the ministry of availability to be able to do that, because you've constructed your life in a way that allows that, that's how you can keep stepping toward that.
Speaker 2:But the worthiness when you think about men that their hearts are turned toward God, toward things of their family, and they want to make an impact. And they've got to have that, because some of them just need to be family-focused. And I've seen them turn in and just say, man, I'm just going to be the best possible quiet leader in my own family that I can be and I can say praise God, let me be of support. Others will be. No, no, I want to use my platform for excellence in the world. So, hey, tell me about that. I'd plan my midlife review. I put together a Quaker clearness committee. Literally plan the clearness committee strategy. I found 10 men that I admired. I sat with each of them. I sat under their spiritual authority and their life authority. I said this is who I am. So I see myself, but, by the way, how do you see me?
Speaker 1:That's a dangerous question to ask people, because people see you differently than you see yourself.
Speaker 2:I had to quit my job as a result. It was so good and so hard yeah who doesn't need to look at their blind spots?
Speaker 2:Oh we all do we all do. And in the midst of that experience I remember it literally 2002, 2003, I planned it and then I left, formed my own corporation, do a lot. All that work comes to a little company called Brand Direct you won't find a note of that anywhere because I don't need to right and I designed name, image, likeness, contracts, all these things to find the worthy guys that want to create an impact. And then we write the structures around that to make sure that any corporate things, ministry deals, they got to happen rightly. Don't mess with my guys. Protect God, protect the athlete and then, beyond that, man, if I can make things happen that create really good kingdom, then it does. And I've got 10 key kingdom projects. You know none of them any more or less important, because before you minister to the many, you first got to minister to the few. So what few will you be in discipleship relationships Will you be moving with so that you know that they have the movement between worthy and not worthy Because that daily flow?
Speaker 2:I had an old boss in the newspaper industry and she which was awesome because she God forbid, she was a firecracker, her name was Kimberly. She had a big influence on my life. I didn't realize I would talk about her, but she was special and she said I vacillate between queen of the world and I'm nobody, and what she meant and I'm nobody. And what she meant and how I experienced it in pro space is a lot like. A lot of times you have to have credentials to get into things, and when you carry the right credentials you can go anywhere. But when you do not, even when you have the bracelet, like just go anywhere, well, this, actually this bracelet right here, that's a special bracelet. I won't even say what it was, but it was Hall of Fame last week and I got to go do things that I don't deserve.
Speaker 2:And yet you're with the family, friends and family, and you're of service, you listen, you find the ones that are feeling a little bit unworthy and you become the chief encouragement officer.
Speaker 2:I hereby challenge you right, what three people are you going to encourage today With a word, a text, a note? I'm proud of you because I believe in you, because I will help you, because and people go well, shouldn't it be unconditional? Shouldn't you just say I love you, I'm like, of course, but when it is, when it has a contract, a conditionality associated with it and you know what those things are. Think about when you're coaching up your own kids and you say I love you, but because you do these things, I can then coach and guide you toward your better self. Now you can begin to sort of grow up your own family, grow up your own self, and I need to be accountable to people that read the Bible four times a week man their life success ratio skyrocket. People that love their wife and stay committed man their life success ratio skyrocket. I'm not doing it for that reason, but it's the underlying principles.
Speaker 2:It just happens because of it.
Speaker 1:And worthy man, not Just take us to a time. Personally, sure that you can remember where you were at a low spot, where maybe from the outside perspective it all looked good. But you know, darren gray was like in a spot.
Speaker 2:Man, I knew this hard question was coming, uh by by, by bringing forward this topic and, and there are countless and, and oftentimes it happens, uh, uh, in dark nights of the soul. You know that three o'clock wake up from a dream that flash forward, that seeing almost future tense, but yet you know it's tied to all your past tense and getting reconciled with your past and the death of my mama and the pandemic. And it was man that almost made me cuss Like chicken, like that was the most awful thing ever, like her choking to death. And you know what? I wasn't the only one, and there were a lot of other people. So what am I going to do? How am I going to respond? Dark night of the soul.
Speaker 2:And you're like Darren, what's it got to do with your worthiness? Well, she was my everything. She was my great encourager. She's the one that would listen to me, no matter what. Like I could have I could have had the best day or the worst day, yeah, and she would want to hear it, and, and and I would. She was the one that I shared it with. She's the one I was like I am.
Speaker 2:I am of my father's seed and my mother's womb right, fearfully, wonderfully made and yet broken and not perfect. But back to the worthy, where I take my hits and when I feel unworthy I have to stop and check myself, and my wife is my great encourager and it's like listening to my clearness committee. Maybe I'm off, maybe I don't have this right. I got moral authority right. You know, tony says be stubborn when you need to be Like, when you know that, you know that, you know that you know that God's told you, then be stubborn Right. However, like on most matters, be kind, be humble. You know what I love about Tony the most. What do you love about?
Speaker 1:him. I wish I could get an opportunity to tell him myself one day, all in due time.
Speaker 1:Is his ability to be very confident void of arrogance? Yeah right, void of arrogance. Yeah right, void of it. He walks in humility. Hey, I'm Aaron Walker, founder of Iron Sharpens Iron. Every successful man needs a band of brothers to push him to grow spiritually, personally and professionally. Each week I meet with like-minded Christian business owners in our mastermind groups. We share wisdom, tackle challenges and we hold each other accountable to grow, not just in business, but in life. Don't do life or business alone. Join the brotherhood. That will challenge, encourage and sharpen you. Visit isibrotherhoodcom and take the first step today.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question from a faith perspective because I know that's where your focus is at. Sure, god says our worth is not tied to our performance. How can we get into a place to where we're not just tied to performance but our inner critic always says it doesn't always get the memo? I guess you would say Our inner critic doesn't Like what do you do? What does Derrick Gray do? I know what. Enough is Right.
Speaker 2:I literally know what enough is, yeah.
Speaker 2:How have you identified that when I was doing my clearness committee I identified a done number. Now that might to some people sound kind of crazy, but I literally identified what enough looked like and I said, god, I'm going to work toward you and toward, not that like being a provider for our families, but as that nears, hey, can you help to guide me, to keep me honest and true to what got me here and that's the faith story that sort of permeates the work that I do and then that allowed me to be freed up. We call it play free, like. There literally is a principle athletes in action, go study, go to the athletes in actionorg website audience of one. How do you play free? How do you get beyond the critic? And in sports, I like wrote a book. I like you're like at the epicenter of the Jersey effect.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that for a second, because I think it's important that we talk about the book. You coauthored it with Hunter Smith and I'm sure you did talk to him yesterday. Equally great job with you, and Tony Dunchy did the forward in the book, so that was pretty cool, pretty cool. I may ask him to do the forward in my next book? I don't know, we'll see, could happen. My next book? I don't know, we'll see, could happen. Uh, what's the story behind the project? Like, what was the motivation?
Speaker 2:yep, so, god. So it's like when it wasn't a dark night of the soul, but it was a clear message. Uh, darren, the jersey effect. You need to have a conversation with tony about this. I can remember calling him up organizing the meet time. It was at at the London Hotel in Manhattan. He had on set that little later today.
Speaker 2:None of that matters, other than it just contextualizes. And I remember preparing for that conversation for probably four or five hours. Like you know, when you have something really important to say, you know once you prepare. And so I am a ridiculously prepared guy, although I leave room for serendipity in the moment. The Holy Spirit and all that. So I was prepared.
Speaker 2:I knew what I wanted to write about. I knew why I wanted to write it. I wanted to reach a broader audience. I was working full time at All Pro Dad. At that point I was helping to advance this fatherhood movement. It was a unique calling that I had prayed for. Lord, tell me what my call? How can I be useful? And I had some access because I happened to be present in Indianapolis in a very special era.
Speaker 2:That was the winningest era, you know, in that little stretch. Bill Pullian was the architect, jim Irsay was the financier. He's, you know, gone, gone, gone home, and Tony was the gentle guide that they would take the hill for quiet strength, and I just watched all that. That was a great book too Quiet Strength, wasn't it? It was amazing, yeah, wasn't it? Yeah, it was great. You want to know who Herm Edwards is? Read that book, okay, you want to know who these people are to Tony, and it also page 199,. Nobody cares about my story, but you want to know who these people are to Tony, and it also page 199,. Nobody cares about my story. But you want to go read 199 and you'll hear a story about All Pro Dad and kind of what we were trying to do behind the scenes during that. And I'm nobody. I got a Mark Merrill, george Woods. I got to stand on his shoulders, I got to be advised and be mindful that there are a lot of hearts that make nonprofits go.
Speaker 2:But when I got involved in that little nonprofit which was the fatherhood council or the fatherhood program of the Florida Family Council not that great of a brand all pro dad began hitting right and I would just got in a movement in Tony's downline. So I say all that, not me. I had media skills, I had a calling and I felt that. But as I'm stepping into the middle of that program, I felt a clear call hey, I could write this story. I want to tell what was going on behind the scenes because I knew some of the great. I knew some of what was going on and I remember sitting with him and he said I'll support your vision and talk to Hunter Smith and I already knew Hunt. I talked a long talk to Hunt. Now he's the state house in Indiana and a very special guy. We'll be together next week at a pro-life event with Tony and a lot of special things that we do to advocate.
Speaker 2:But what matters from that story is I was in relation and I had the ministry of availability in my life because I'd begun to structure things, to find windows that allowed me to do the creative work Very creative and enjoy design thinking and I designed a path and then I got to the middle of it. I invited friends into that. We interviewed 11 players and, uh, you know, back to Jeff, just cause he's market, he'd be happy that I was telling this story. Man, after the Superbowl win man, he got offered a chance to, you know, saturday Chevrolet and and he had to think about like do I really need my name in lights? Like what does that look like? And look what got the lights. And he didn't end up doing that and talks about why and what he was thinking and how that hit. And in the midst of that it gets us to think about our own lives.
Speaker 1:What did it say to you? What did that story teach there?
Speaker 2:The culture of more and now is false. It's us to think about our own lives. What did it say to you? What did that story teach there? The culture of more and now is false. It's wrong this need that men have to be the producer, the type A. You know them? Sure, we know them and we go. Okay, Lord, release me at peace, on purpose, at your pace.
Speaker 1:Isn't that what we want? We want peace. It's all I want.
Speaker 2:Joy, culture of joy. I want to have fun, I want endorphins, I want love. I want to be on a boat. I don't do deep sea fishing, but I love shallow water fishing. I want to be jet skiing. I want to like what's best life, and I say that just to go. Hey, you want to have fellowship and I go. Well, is it with me? Am I worthy, am I sufficient to what you want to? And you're like man. Come be with me, like on a moment's notice, this whole thing, like just the serendipity of the moment, and then me being willing to lean in and say no to a few other things today that I could have done, because this was more important.
Speaker 2:I prioritize people. When you prioritize people and you understand that ministry always moves best at the speed of relationship. Now you're in master class, not from Darren Gray, I'm not bright enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not talented enough. Oh, darren, you're preaching from Saturday Night Live, and I'm like Darren Gray, I'm not bright enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not talented enough. Oh, darren, you're preaching from Saturday Night Live, and I'm like I am Because in the middle of that we go simultaneously. Never worthy enough, and yet, knowing that in Christ sufficiently worthy. Keep stepping, keep going and along the way. If people ask you why, if they notice a little thing or two that you were a change agent for man, that's what a blessing. And so that's why you're a change agent in the lives of men at scale Scaled change agent, small over big. Not that they don't create banana movements, but small, ordinary, daily those things, even if there's fear of influence everyone right.
Speaker 1:I'm so grateful that you're in our community as well, and so it's a privilege to have you there before we leave. Today, though, one of the things I think is most important that we touch on you've been married to Leslie now for 31 years. I have and what is some of the keys to that long-term relationship? Three decades of marriage, four adult children. You're on the road a lot. You speak a lot. You're constantly raising money for different charitable organizations. You're a busy guy. You wear a lot of hats. How can you keep a marriage intact like it belongs being on the road? What are some of your keys to the guys? Talk directly to the guys. What would you do different and what do you think you're doing well now in regards to your relationships, your personal relationships, regards to your relationships, your personal relationships, yeah.
Speaker 2:So my wife and her sphere of influence is so ridiculously talented. She's a Montessori educator and in that sphere of influence you put the mic in her hand and she's like she's a leader nationally. She's, she's known in circles, maria Montessori, she's amazing. But if I have to guide her into the places of ambiguity that I live in, I have to know how to move in rooms, to move toward where God is moving, find the right corner, create the conversation, bring the resources, the athlete, whatever that is in the moment, that creates economic and commerce.
Speaker 2:She can't stand it. She didn't want to come with and so I had to. I had to get clear on that because at one point it was sort of like dang, like, and I'll speak into your audiences like don't take your wives to events that they don't really want to be at, like check it out with them first and organize around that, and then you get a couple of chips a year. She's extremely attractive, she's all these things. She's very kind, but she's fierce too, and so when you married way up, I married way up and and we don't I don't post a ton about her, uh, but I, I, she's happy that way she is.
Speaker 2:yeah she actually, she actually is and from time to time, uh, I'm able to take her to special places that really enliven her soul, her joy attune, actually know her business of Socratic dialogue and how that hits youth, education, one through middle, and when you understand that that's the most formative times in a kid's life. They need to be touched and loved and understood earlier. But I understand her world. I ask her about her things, I let her decompress and I don't often because my world is so complex and there are so many varied interests in and around sports, media and mission. I have to be very mindful of who I speak about, when I speak about them, when I invite her in. But I pay attention to what she cares about.
Speaker 2:Her introversion is not out of fear, it's just, you know, it's just who she is. And if it's nonsense to her then hey, it doesn't make sense to take her. And so now I didn't understand that early in my career I'm like baby, I got a sweet ticket, and so in the middle of that, every now and again I go. But hey, we can go see this star for the WNBA in Indianapolis, right, and she's the most important person in the NBA right now. We'll go see her play Sweet tickets, the whole bit. It's going to be awesome. Yeah, all my friends, she goes, let's go yeah.
Speaker 1:Because it hits Well, you're in touch with what she wants. You're not forcing her to. That's it. Robin's the same way. We've been married 45 years. Yeah, I get to travel and speak and do those things as well, and we're going to be taking a trip in October going out to Santa Barbara and she wants to go there. That's it. She's like yeah, I'm in, we love it, let's go. But you know, to go to some of these other places, you just get up and speak. I'm stuck at the hotel. I.
Speaker 2:Dachau like crazy, but we can't afford it. So we live in Indiana. That's home, but yet I travel. I have plenty of Hilton points and yet-. So, hey, let's go make a date.
Speaker 1:We make dates.
Speaker 2:All the time we prioritize each other. We made a list, made it work. We made it Well more than that. She literally forced me to make a very specific list this weekend in four dimensions, from high to low, with each of the gradations that had to do with our love for each other. But her prioritizing me isn't that cool and I just serve each other and so all that and we just trust, uh, that there's a much bigger picture. We never use the d word. There's a little coaching. Yeah, let's never use the D word. There's a little coaching.
Speaker 1:Let's never do it. No, it's not even up for debate, it's just like hey, baby, it's not an option.
Speaker 2:It's just like what kind of tacos do you want? I'm sorry. Sorry is the hardest word. It's the highest form of love.
Speaker 1:Forgive me, God, hey before we go, tell us something you're exciting about in the third annual Pro Player Project that's coming up in November. Talk to us a little bit about that. Tell me what you're excited about and tell people also how they can find you, how they can connect with you going forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you can always find me at Darren Gray 2020, D-A-R-R-I-N-G-R-A-Y-2-0-2-0. That'll sort of chase me around for the balance of my public life. A lot of stuff I do is hyper private never talked about missional ministry, et cetera but as it relates to my public self and the things that I do, Pro Player Prayer Project, which birthed from the DeMar Hamlin incident your listeners and viewers may not even remember that, but we're going to pray for those causes. We're going to pray for their families all 1,596 NFL players by name. In the name of Jesus, I need 32 volunteers, which I'll be recruiting that will come alongside me for a particular experience. Recruiting that will come alongside me for a particular experience.
Speaker 2:This year's will be more virtual than live, although there will be a live manifestation, but not nearly the size of the one we did last year at the house. That was off the chain and big and hairy and audacious, and so we'll ebb and flow each year. I'll just ask the Lord, as I've done with my. My P4 committee is three trusted people that I trust, that I trust, and they also work their butts off, because pulling off these things, these prayerful movements, they take energy and they take time, and it means I have to sacrifice some things that I'm not doing in order to create this. So it's not like I'm anybody special.
Speaker 2:But that is a volunteer-led movement, and the best kind of movements in many cases are when people's hearts are connected around a volunteer activity to make change and then in the meantime we're able to do bigger, better, more with resourcing. Pot Up was a great supporter of us last year, praycom the kind of brands that help us to advance, that have mutual interests. But as I land the plane relative to the Pro Player Prayer Project, we'll have our new website up in about two weeks. We'll begin announcing the little ways that people can help and you know, god willing, maybe there's even some people that tune into this that say, hey, I want to identify myself as one of the prayer leaders. You can pick the team that you want to pray for. Know that that's first come, first serve basis.
Speaker 1:We sat there at that table and Kansas City Chiefs was our table, so we sat there and prayed for every player last season by name and it was emotional, it was moving to think when I watched them. You know my wife's a big Kansas City Chiefs fan, that's right, and so we prayed for that guy and this is what's going on in his life right now. This is what's going on in his life.
Speaker 2:Praying for wives and girlfriends. It was crazy. You're praying for Taylor Swift. Yeah, praying for everybody. Yeah, right, because as you begin, as you begin to think about all of this and then pray, just gently, it's about FCA praying, aia praying, we're all praying. But this is a systematic strategy, done in a way that allows us to connect with really things that God is moving in, trust God to bring immeasurably more and, in the middle of that, touch a few people. So, proplayerprayerprojectcom, that's a mouthful P4. You can watch my IG feed feed. I'll begin posting about it soon. Who knows where, where it will go at the super bowl, what we will do next and what the next act is, it's not mine to decide, god decides. And then I just show up, assemble the cast of characters that come together.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being part of that as a character in the midst of the plot line right of what god is doing so that we might populate the world with people that are willing to answer the question. You know, hey, who do you say that I am?
Speaker 1:Hey, I want you to talk directly to the listener right now and I want you to tell them what they could do specifically to overcome this sensation of I'm not worthy. What are some practical applications as we end the show? What is a challenge from you to that listener that feels today, man, I'm just not worthy. What do you tell that guy as we end?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the corporate culture of more and now is a lie. Enough can be enough. Serving is leading. If you're not willing to serve, then you're probably not a great leader. Be humble, have strong confidence in the Lord, have accountability partners, have systems around you that guide you consistently to gratitude, that guide you to culture of joy, that keep you resilient and remind you that you are worthy. And in the middle of your life, in the moments when you feel unworthy, then just remember, just hit your knees right Because humble and lowly.
Speaker 2:What is it that we might do to take on, to join in this broader story of a Savior that came and that we can connect with every day? Wow, thank you God for plucking me out, inviting me into your story. You don't need me, but in the middle of it, you're glad to have me along. Listeners, we're glad to have you along for this journey today, and from this, I hope, ripple effects come many. Remember that commenting, liking and sharing are actually forms of love. People don't think about that sometimes. Help us get the word out, but what it does is it activates the IG algorithms, it activates the site guys to say, hey, prioritize this in the public feed so that, if there was a moment, but pick the moment that meant the most to you. Tell Aaron why you appreciate him. Show that, if there was a moment, but pick the moment that meant the most to you. Tell Aaron why you appreciate him, and I'm so proud of you, aaron, for being the leader that you are.
Speaker 1:So good, darren, thank you for being here today. Friends, I want to encourage you right now Go get a copy of the Jersey Effect and then follow Darren. He gave you his address a while ago at Darren Gray 2020. And join him in the Pro Player Prayer Project and remember your worth isn't defined by wins or losses. It's defined by the one who made you. Thanks for listening to the ISI brotherhood podcast. I'm Aaron Walker, and we'll see you next time.