Reginald D: Welcome to Real Talk with Reginald D. I'm your host, Reginald D.

On today's episode, I have Ray Zinn.

Ray is an entrepreneur, angel investor, mentor, podcast host, inventor,

author,

and a Silicon Valley legend. Best known as the Co founder and 37 years CEO of Micro Semiconductor. Acquired by Microchip in 2015,

Ray is the longest serving CEO of a publicly traded Silicon Valley company and one of the longest serving CEOs in U.S. business history.

Welcome to the show, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Well, thank you. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Reginald D: Thank you. Thank you. So, Ray, I'd like to start out by asking my guests, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and where you grew up?

Ray Zinn: So I'm the oldest of 11 children.

I grew up in Southern California, down in the Imperial Valley.

My father was a cattle rancher, my mother was a schoolteacher. And I grew up working cattle and doing all the normal things that kid does other than being a rancher or working cattle.

So that's my early childhood. Had to take care of my 10 siblings at many points in their life.

My father passed away at the age of 52.

I was 26 at the time he died. And so I was kind of left helping the family because my mother at her age was not able to just teach school full time because she had nine children at home.

Reginald D: Wow, wow, wow. That did make you grow up at her age, right?

Ray Zinn: Made you grow up real quick.

Reginald D: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, Ray, you're known as the longest serving CEO in Silicon Valley history.

Take us back to what inspired you to start Micro and what was your original vision for the company?

Ray Zinn: Okay, so I was working for a company that was headquartered in Woodland Hills, California, which is down near la,

and I had invented a piece of equipment called the Wafer Stepper.

And it was kind of hit a little before its time, like 10 years before its time. But I'm an inventor and I tend to get ahead of myself.

And my company didn't appreciate my energy and my drive to promote this piece of equipment.

By the way, the Wafer Stepper is one of the most important pieces of equipment in making semiconductors in the world today.

So it was a good idea.

It was just ahead of its time.

And my company that I work for really didn't have that vision. They were just living day to day and didn't look out very far in the future.

And so, you know, I could say possibly because I was young and energetic and pushy,

that they didn't appreciate that.

So they made it uncomfortable for me because they Were not interested in producing this piece of equipment.

And so I left, went home that evening, flew back to San Jose, California,

and told my wife. She greeted me at the top of the stairs and her arms outstretched and gave me a great big hug and a kiss. And. And I says,

I gotta tell you something. I'm never gonna work for anybody ever again.

Because I was so upset with the way I was treated at a company that I worked for.

And I made good money. I mean, I had a good living. And so my dear wife,

she said, oh, okay, you know, not. What are you gonna do? She didn't press me on that because I didn't know what I was gonna do.

I just made the decision I was never gonna work for anybody ever again. So From July of 1976 until today,

no one has signed my paycheck. I've signed my own paycheck since that time.

So you can do the math. That's, you know, a long time ago. Almost 50 years old. 50 years this year. So I tried two or three different companies and then struck on the idea of starting a semiconductor company.

And I had a friend who was a genius,

and so I asked him to join me,

which he did.

And so, you know, we tried to raise the money to do a semiconductor company without going to venture capital because I did not want to go the venture round because I wanted to own the company.

I wanted to have the say. As you remember, I didn't like where I was working before because I didn't have a say. I didn't have any decision that I could make for them.

So I wanted to have the ability to make my own decisions, to run the company the way I wanted to run it. And I wanted to run a very collaborative company, one that was open.

I wanted to be just one of the team, not the team itself. I wanted to be one of the team, and that was the goal of starting my company.

But being that we didn't go the venture route, which was the way all semiconductor companies in that timeframe went with venture, it was difficult for me to secure funding for the company.

So I was able to convince a bank to loan me the money to start the company.

But they weren't going to loan me any more money than I was willing to put up, which kind of limited what I could do to start the company because I had to put up half the money.

And they put some very onerous requirements on us that we had to be profitable within the first year.

And you think of a startup, hardly any startup, especially in technology,

are ever going to be profitable in their first year. But I had already signed the agreement. I personally guaranteed the debt of the company. And people asked me what was I afraid?

And the answer was no, I really wasn't afraid. I was excited and enthusiastic, but never felt afraid of what I was doing because I had confidence in my partner and the people that I hired.

And so we were quite successful in our first year. We had to change our business plan to be one of a service company as opposed to a production product company.

And it wasn't until 1985 that I was able to start producing my own products,

semiconductor products,

because we had acquired enough cash and enough profitability so that we could start launching our own products.

So for that,

you know, seven years,

we were a service company, but we were very profitable. We couldn't grow real fast because as a service company, you're just relying on other people as opposed to having your own products.

So in that same time frame, 1985, the. The bank asked me to remove myself as a personal guarantor because it was very expensive for the bank to keep the guarantee protected.

And so they asked me to withdraw my personal guarantee, which I thought was interesting.

And I said, well, let me think about it. And they sat back, what? You gotta be kidding. Why are you thinking about that? We're letting you off the personal guarantee?

I said, I'm not sure I want to be off that guarantee.

And they said, why? And I said, because it keeps me on the straight and narrow. It keeps me focused on running the company profitably.

And so they said, well, you know, think about it, let us know. And so I called them back, you know, a few days later, and I told him, yeah, I want to stay on the guarantee.

And so they were not happy about that because of the expense of it. And they wanted to raise the cost of the interest rate that I was paying for the working capital because it was costing them more to perfect that guaranteed.

But I said, well, I think we're going to be a better company for you. And I argued about not increasing the interest rate. And they agreed that they'd do it for two more years.

But that was all they were going to give me, is two more years, and here I am. Most companies or CEOs would just die to have their guarantee withdrawn, but I wasn't, because I wasn't.

I wasn't afraid.

I felt confident in what we were doing. We were profitable.

But I then got to understand the bank's issue.

And so I did agree then to withdraw my guarantee, which they were very Happy about because now it's more profitable that working capital, more profitable for them.

So then in 1994,

I took the company public on NASDAQ. The identifier was MCRL, which was our NASDAQ identifier. And we did it very well. We did very well as a public company, but I had lost my vision.

I was on the roadshow doing company roadshow for the S1,

and I lost my eyesight. And so I didn't know if I could continue.

Here I am now legally blind and trying to run this company as a CEO. But again,

I had confidence. I wasn't afraid. I had confidence in my ability.

And so the losing my eyesight was actually an advantage. In fact, tomorrow I go in for some eye surgery. They're going to try to help me with my one eye this thing.

Maybe they can do something to help me get some vision back.

So I'm kind of excited about tomorrow because they may be able to help my vision a little bit. I don't have a high degree of confidence, but I'm willing to give it a try because I just want some vision back.

But anyway, I ran the company legally blind until we sold the company in 2015 because I became a better listener.

I did what we call active listening, not passive. I was very intent on hearing what they wanted and what they decided and that, you know, two heads are better than one concept.

I learned how important it was to be a good listener. And I showed respect for my people because I confidence in them. So we had four cultures in our company.

First culture was honesty. The second was integrity, which is doing what's right when no one's watching. The third was respect for every individual. We didn't allow any condescending or bolder language at all.

Zero.

If you cussed or swore,

you know, you were given a warning. And then if you didn't shape up, you. You were asked to leave. So people really enjoyed working for a company where there's no swearing, no vulgar language.

The fourth culture was doing whatever it takes, no excuses, meaning that you're not going to put the company at risk for the mistakes you make. So I taught them how to make mistakes, but correct them.

So you know, a mistake is not a mistake if you correct it.

And so at Micrel,

we had no regrets. I can tell you that there was no regrets because we always corrected the mistakes we made.

So that became the culture of the company, those four items,

and that helped us retain people. We had the lowest turnover of any company in our industry.

We were half the Turnover of our competitors. In fact, we had what we call a boomerang rate of 50%. Half the people who left our company wanted to come back because when they went to the new company,

they didn't like the atmosphere, they didn't like the culture, and they wanted to come back to our company. Mikerel and so we had a good culture, good tenure of people staying with company.

And so I didn't want to sell the company in 2015 because I wanted to be able to be a CEO for 50 years, which I just needed another 13 years to accomplish that.

But you know, the board being the board wanted a younger CEO because I was 78 at the time. And so anyway, I,

I had to give up running the company, but I would have run it on into my,

you know,

years I am now. I would have run it for 50 years if they would have let me.

So anyway, that's gives you a kind of a little snapshot into my background.

Reginald D: Right? I mean, I really like that because what you said to me when you built your company,

and this is very important to anybody that's listening,

you built a culture,

you know, if you don't build the culture, it's going to be hard to sustain a company where everybody's on the same page, going down the same road and pulling from the same rope at the end of the day.

And I'm big on that. So Ray, what did you discover about trust? A delegation where you can no longer see the data or manage the way.

Ray Zinn: Other CEO might because they knew I couldn't. And they,

you know, most people are good people, they're helpful, they want to help.

And then they know if you can't see, well,

they're going to be more likely to be ethical in the way that they deal with you, whether it be a customer,

whether it be an investor.

So we had a fantastic reputation amongst our customers and our investors because they trusted me,

because I trusted them and I showed that trust reciprocally.

And so that was a big key of the company.

In fact, you know, Julie who was on with us earlier, she worked for me for many years at the company and so she's a, she's a real testament or testifier of the culture and how well that culture really benefited and helped the company operate.

Reginald D: Yeah, because I mean, I think leadership is one of the biggest things that the company thriving when it's all said and done because you can't do nothing without the people at the end of the day and you can't do nothing without faithful people.

And you have to Be faithful yourself as a leader.

You know, got the vision, you made it plain and everybody trusts the vision and you walk people through the process.

And it's kind of hard when you dealing with things on a 50,000 foot view level,

you know, and you look it down. But then some leaders always say, hey, you got to come down a little closer if you want to teach the people what you want them to accomplish and what you want your company to accomplish.

Ray Zinn: I just wrote my last book called the Essential Leader and I cover what you're talking about.

Reginald D: Wow. So, Ray, what does empathy based leadership look like day to day in a high pressure tech environment?

Ray Zinn: It's by loving the people, loving them.

So as we know, you can't have hatred if there's love. They don't coexist.

So my people knew I love them.

I talked to them, I expressed my appreciation.

When we answer the phone, we don't say hello, we say, how can I help you?

So it was that culture of love and understanding that everybody has a life, they all have their own homes or their spouses or children.

And we respected that. We didn't require 80 hour weeks.

We told them, no, we don't want you to work 80 hours, we want you to work at least 40. We want you to do that and we want you to be effective while you're at work.

So most people that work long hours, as you would, or over 40 hours,

they waste half the day anyway.

They're just there, but they're not working because you can't focus,

you know, for 10 to 15 hours a day, you can't focus,

your mind starts to drift and you wonder.

And so what we did is we encouraged our people to be with their family,

to go home.

And, and so we did not emphasize working 50, 60 hour weeks. We focused on working your 40 hours,

but we want you to go home and be with your family.

That really kept them being efficient while they're at work. They really worked hard.

They didn't spend half the day goofing off.

They spent the whole day working because they knew that I didn't require them to work 80 hours.

Reginald D: Right,

right.

And that's the thing about it. And I think it's the way you come across to people and when you talk to them and the way you handle people makes them want to be dedicated to what you're doing.

Because I always tell people, you know, I'm in leadership myself and I always tell people, the people who's under me, that's in leadership.

So sometimes when you ask a question you start out by saying,

you know, like you said, they answer the phones. They don't say hello. They say, how can I help you?

And I say, if you're talking to someone, you know, another employee, and you need something done,

just don't tell them what to do. Say, hey, can you do me a favor? I need a favor. And who doesn't want to do a favor for their boss?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I need your help. You know, just say, I need your help. I mean, you got to be. You got to be humble, you know, with it.

Need your help. Can you do this? And it'll work every time,

because you sustain employee loyalty and alignment over nearly four decades, which is.

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Reginald D: Which is huge, man. Which is huge.

Ray Zinn: You have to show gratitude.

I always tell my people how much I appreciate how much they mean to me by being at the company.

I walk around and visit with them and ask them, how's your family? How are you doing? How's your health? You know, how do you like your job?

Do you realize that we did a study on this, that 75% of the people that leave the company leave it because they didn't like their supervisor. So I taught my leadership to be loved by their people.

You know, I said, you know, if we want low turnover, we're going to have to beat the odds by letting our employees know how much we appreciate them.

And so we had company meetings every week. On Friday, we had a company meeting with the staff.

We talked about, how can we help? What can we do to improve?

And we did that for an hour and a half on Friday. Every. Every single week.

And we had every. Every single department would report how they're doing and what their issues are. And we talked about how we can help around the table. We discussed ideas.

So that was the atmosphere at the company is they knew that our supervisors, our managers,

loved them.

And so if we had an employee that left the company for a particular supervisor they didn't like, we met with that supervisor to find out what the issue is and what can we do to help them become a better supervisor.

And, of course, if. If they lost more than one or two people,

we would have to take some action.

And we say, maybe you don't fit. Maybe this is not the environment you want to be in. And we've had a few leave because they just felt that they were more micromanagers or defining what their employees do.

And they weren't that appreciative of their employees. They felt they were goofing off. And if Your employees think you're goofing off, they're not going to be loyal.

Reginald D: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You can't do that at all. You can't. So, Ray, I'm ask you this, I'm curious what you're going to say about this.

With AI and automation reshaping industries today,

what leadership qualities do you think will never go out of style?

Ray Zinn: Saying you love them, expressing appreciation.

AI can't do that as a person.

That is just going to be answering questions and reducing workload in areas where you won't necessarily expect or indicate that you love and appreciate them.

AI is not new, by the way.

Adam Smith and the wealth of nations talked about the industrial revolution when the locomotive was invented.

So we have been improving, we've been advancing since Adam,

as you would, whether it be the Roman Empire or the Ottoman or whatever empire at the time was in existence,

there was improvement in the way of construction,

in the way that they,

they did medicine. And so artificial intelligence is just another,

you know, key to, to improving our lives, improving the way we go about business.

But you're never gonna do away with, with love.

You know, AI cannot love you. I mean, that's called passive love. There's no way you can express it.

And so your loyalty, your responsibility to be a steward leader is like a shepherd leading a flock. You can't do that with AI.

AI impersonalizes leadership. And so you're going to have to continue personalizing leadership. Be a good shepherd, a good steward of your people,

and you'll see they will continue to support you.

If you don't, they're going to leave.

Reginald D: Exactly. Well put. I learned something today too,

by the way. AI is not new.

So.

So, Ray, let's talk about this. You've written the Sensual Leader, Tough Things first, and the Zen of Zen series.

Can you tell us about your book and what core principle ties all your work together?

Ray Zinn: Okay, so the first book was Tough Things first,

and that's really how to Run a Company.

That's what Tough Things first is about, is if you want to run a company, that's a handbook to how to run the company.

Zen and zen.

The series 1, 2, 3 and 4, so that they are, are proverbs. In other words, they're things you can put on your mirror or on your bedpost or whatever that you can work on to give you ideas and thoughts about how you can improve your life,

how you can become a better leader, a better person,

better husband, a better wife, better father, better mother, a better school teacher, whatever.

There are thoughts that you can review and focus on to help you become a better leader. It's kind of almost scriptural in the way they're written.

So they're patterns to follow and to grow the Essential Leader.

I was asked to write that because there are things that are essential and there are things that are not essential.

So this is the essential aspects of being a leader. And we cover the passion, you know, the. The work ethic, the culture. We cover all that in the Essential Leader.

How important these various aspects are,

how you treat people,

how you. You grow yourself.

That's what the Essential Leader is about. There's 10 sections in that book, and they're all essential there. You can't throw them out. You can't say, well, I don't need that one or this one.

You need all those 10. They all tend together to define how you can become an essential Leader.

It's really a textbook on leadership.

Reginald D: Wow. A lot of leaders need a book like that,

especially when you new in it and somebody's growing into it, you know, because they can very well derail themselves if they make the wrong decisions that they, you know, that they thought was right.

So.

Ray Zinn: Well, if you're an employee, for example, the Essential Leader will. Will help you look for a good leader. In other words,

if you read that book as an employee,

then when you interview for a job,

you can match the character of an essential leader against the person with whom you're interviewing and see if they meet that.

That standard. If they do, then you have a high likelihood of being successful working for them. So it's also for,

like a spouse.

A spouse,

let's say your potential spouse. You're looking for a spouse. If you read that book, Essential Leader, it'll help you find the right companion,

because now you'll know what to look for in that companion.

If you read the Essential Leader, it'll help you.

It'll guide you in that relationship that you're going to have with that person, whether it be a man or a woman.

And so it even works in that respect to help you find the right kind of person to be a partner in your life.

Reginald D: So it works more than one way.

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Reginald D: Awesome.

Ray Zinn: Essential says it all. Okay, so leadership goes beyond just running a company.

There's a leadership in your family. There's a leadership in your relationship with your friends. There's a leadership in your community,

how you get involved in your community.

Those are all leadership principles.

You know, leading is not just running a company.

Leading is how you live your life.

You know, it helps you become the leader in your community or in your family,

in your relationship with others. It'll help you develop that kind of atmosphere that will help you be successful.

And that's, I mean, I just wrote it recently and so very few people are as old as I am that even still write books.

So you're getting a book written by one of the. One of the people who's in their twilight of their life. You know, I'm 88, you know, and there are very few people at my age that have the experience that I have.

Reginald D: Exactly. And that means a lot. And talk about experience. Let me ask you this question, Ray.

For younger entrepreneurs listening, what's one tough thing you wish more people would embrace early in their careers?

Ray Zinn: Never giving up, you know, having that passion to succeed.

I just recently wrote a musing that success is built on overcoming failure.

That's what success is.

Success is not money and wealth, and that's not success.

Success is building on overcoming failure because we all make mistakes. We learn by failing.

And so you don't learn if you don't fail.

You have to keep trying.

And you know that little children's story,

the little train that could,

you know,

I, I know I can. I know I can. You know, I think I can. She start out, I think I can. I think can. Then say, I know I can.

And so remember I started this podcast by telling you I wasn't afraid.

I didn't have any fear.

Fear is the biggest hindrance to becoming successful because fear stops you.

It's terrible.

It's the worst attribute you can have is being fearful.

And so part of that young entrepreneur or young startup as you would person is not having fear, overcoming the fear factor.

And if you can,

then you're willing to try and try and keep trying without giving up.

So that's the key is,

you know, fight that fear factor.

Fight that willingness to give up.

Stay dedicated and focused on becoming a better person,

not just leading and directing people.

In fact, you know, when I interview employees,

I tell them this. I'm not here to make you wealthy. That's your job. Your job is to make yourself wealthy.

What I'm going to do, if you come to work for our company, what I'm going to do is I'm going to help you become a better person. And I will tell you that within three years,

you will personally come to me and tell me that working at the company has helped you become a better person. You know, I have a story I can tell you.

We had a company picnic where we invited the Families to come and fellowship with each other.

And I had a gentleman come up to me, was not an employee.

And he said, may I talk to you for a few minutes? I said, sure. So we went under a series, a clump of oak trees.

And he said,

before my wife joined your company,

we were getting a divorce. We had already filed for a divorce. We were going to go through a divorce.

But after working for your company,

she came to me a few months later and said that she wanted to stop the divorce. She wanted to renew that relationship that we once had.

And he took a handkerchief from his pocket and dampened his eyes. He said,

I want to give you a hug. I want to thank you for saving our marriage. I didn't even know his wife. I mean, we have thousands of people work for it.

That was the atmosphere at the company. He just wanted to thank me for saving his marriage. And I didn't personally do it. My employees did, though. The supervisors did that.

So I probably have 20, 30 more of those examples. I could tell you,

you know, how people,

after working for the company, became better people.

And they. They come to me and I say, I want you to know, as you promised me when I joined, that I would become a better person. I want you to know that has happened.

And Julie can testify to that.

She's listening. She could testify that that's true. Because we've had people tell us that we have helped them become better people. And that was the goal. So I never wanted the company.

When I started in 1978, I never wanted to be a successful financial company. I want to be successful in helping people become better because I'm not a church. You know, I.

I'm not a minister.

I'm not a church. I'm a company. I'm a functioning,

you know, NASDAQ company.

Okay? And so I had to run the company in accordance with the SEC principles. But in the process,

I wanted to help my employees become better,

even though I didn't personally touch their lives,

in a sense of what I didn't, you know, didn't know everybody personally.

My principles that we taught the culture helped that filter down to the lowest end, manager or supervisor.

And it just.

It really had a big impact on the company and the individuals. We've had thousands of people that have become better people because they work for our company. That's the goal.

The goal is you want to help people become better,

not wealthier.

Reginald D: Yes, man. And that's. That's Ray, man. That's powerful. I mean, that's so powerful.

So it it was purpose driven, too.

At the end of the day, you know, it's part of the purpose that you are here for. And you understood it. You know, you got it and you understood it.

Out of all the things you accomplished, you understood the main thing.

So,

Ray, if you could leave our audience with one essential truth about leadership, what will it be?

Ray Zinn: Okay. The difference between a minister and an administer.

So administer is someone who directs, who gives out duties and responsibilities.

A minister is someone who fellowships, who.

Who. Who gets into the people's lives and helps them.

A minister is what you want to be. You want to be a minister,

not an administer.

Reginald D: Well put. Well put. So, Ray, can you tell the audience where they can purchase your book, listen to your podcast, or follow your journey on social media?

Ray Zinn: Thank you. Well, you can go to my website, toughthingsfirst.com. that's my website. It has all my podcasts listed. You can go on YouTube and you hear my podcasts. You can go on LinkedIn.

Of course, our books are on Amazon and other stores that carry books. Get me on audiobooks on Kindle. But anyway, all my books are on Amazon for sure.

And then of course, you can hear our podcast. You can listen to them. But go to my website, toughthings first.com and that'll list all the podcasts and the titles. I've done 120 or so podcasts.

I do two podcasts a week, and they're all based on the things you and I talked about today. That's the principles that we cover on those podcasts. So I don't make any money in this.

This is all a giveaway. I do it just because, again, I'm trying to change the world to the degree I can.

So I'm one person that's trying to influence other people, to influence other people,

to help other people.

So that's the whole purpose of Tough Things first is to help you become better at whatever your role is.

Reginald D: That's it. That's it. We got the same purpose, man. I know. We are lying.

I had a great time.

Listen to your wisdom and the way you conduct your life and the way you driven it, you know, through your career and your entrepreneurship. It all comes back to people at the end of the day.

Ray Zinn: I've been married 65 years. I have 22 grandchildren and 20 great grandchildren. That's my heritage.

Reginald D: Wow. Wow. Absolutely. Absolutely. So there you have it, everybody. Ray Zann. Ray, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Ray Zinn: It's been my pleasure. I just love doing these podcasts with you. I hope it's successful, and I wish everybody Godspeed. And I love you all. I really do.

Reginald D: There you have it. There you have it.

Thank you for listening to Real Talk with Reginald D. If you enjoyed listening to Real Talk with Reginald D,

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