Welcome to Real Talk with Reginald D. I'm your host, Reginald D. On today's episode, I have Mary DeMuth. Mary is the author of many books and her newest one, Restore your Life. And it's also the host of Pray Every day podcast. Welcome to the show, Mary. Mary DeMuth: It's so good to be here. And thank you so much for having me on. Reginald D: Thank you. You have a remarkable story in life, and we're going to jump into it. So let's start out by. Let me ask you this one thing. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and where you grew up? Mary DeMuth: Sure. So I actually grew up in the Pacific Northwest and had a very difficult childhood. Lived in a neighborhood that had lots of drugs and crime, as well as a mom that had been divorced several times. My father took his his life, and I also was sexually abused for a year as a kindergartener. And constantly we also had drugs in the home. And so I had a lot of pretty traumatic events happen even before I was like, 10 years old. My dad died when I was 10, and so that is kind of what marked me for a long time. And I made it to the seventh grade. And everyone that I've talked to has never said, you know, junior high was the best years of my life. And they certainly were not my best years. And thankfully, I eventually met a counselor at my junior high who helped me and met Jesus when I was 15 years old through the ministry of young life. And I've been on a healing journey ever since. Reginald D: Absolutely. So, Mary, let's talk about this. Your new book, restoring your Life, is deeply personal. What was the moment you knew it was time to share this level of vulnerability with the world? And can you share your story and the book with the listeners? Mary DeMuth: Yeah. So that's a great question. Thank you for asking it. You know, it's interesting because I kept a lot of those stories quiet. I was just a quiet little mouse. I was an only child. And there was kind of this unwritten rule that you didn't talk about these kinds of things. But once I met Christ, I started talking about my story right away and started letting it out. And that was the beginning of me healing. And I spent my college years crying and telling that story that I just told you through tears. And people prayed for me. And so it's been a long, long journey of working through all of that trauma and pain. And I'm really grateful that for good friends, I'm grateful for good counselors, I'm grateful for time. And yeah, this idea of Restory has Been just kind of the heartbeat of my message is that God gives you a new story. Reginald D: So what was it when you had this encounter? Because I. I think when I had my encounter with God, it changed my whole perspective on the way I grew up. And my life wasn't perfect. It wasn't any of that stuff. But what was it about when you met Christ and you said, hey, I feel different. I feel like I need to do this. What was that moment like when you met him? Mary DeMuth: So it's interesting because when I was violated at 5 years old, for a whole year, it was often in the forest under big evergreen trees. And when I heard the gospel for the first time, it was at a camp in the forest. And when I met Jesus, I sat myself under one of those trees, and I. I didn't come to him out of this, like, realization of my sin. I. I was a fatherless girl who'd had three fathers by that time, and I was desperately sad, and I needed a dad. And so the transformation happened when I prayed, would you be the father who would never leave me? And so the transformation was that I was so desperately lonely. And in that moment, I was no longer lonely. I had a father who would not walk out the door, who would not kill himself, who would not harm me or physically accost me or yell at me. I had a steady father who is going to be with me for the rest of my life. And that really was the beginning of making a difference for me. Reginald D: And that's so powerful. That's the way Jesus is. I mean, you have to. I tell people a lot of times when you go to him, you have to talk dishonest. You don't have to be perfect with what you're saying. And vocabulary doesn't have to be right. What do you need? And when you say, I need to follow that and never leave me, you know, he always say, I never leave you nor forsake you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Reginald D: So that was it. So you said that sometimes God feels silent in our pain. How did you personally navigate seasons where heaven felt quiet to you? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, I just want to say to anyone that's walking through that right now, this is really normal. And all Christians go through what St. John of the Cross calls the dark night of the soul. There are times where God seems silent, but he's actually. We're actually in a winter season, and that has helped me a lot just thinking about that, because as a gardener, I know the importance of winter. You know, when the sun isn't shining, really great things are happening below the Surface, the roots are going deeper so that when the spring comes, there will be flowers, and eventually summer will come with fruit. And so hang in there during your winter times. Trust that God is working. It just may not be as visible as it is in other seasons of your life. And so trust that he is. He's growing your roots right now. Reginald D: And I've been in the same place many times in my life. I came from a very, very religious family. I mean, pastors, preachers, you know, all of that, church leaders. And there was a time in my life I was in a situation, and I grew up in it. And I questioned you, really real, you know, because I don't know why I'm going through this, you know, and it was, like, devastated to me because, like, all these years I've been through this, and I believed it, but now I'm not seeing the results of it. But it takes that moment, that one moment when he shows up in your life, if you just stay faithful to it, then once he shows up, you know, you'll never go back. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we taste and see of his goodness, and then, you know, he hasn't. Like you mentioned before, he has not left me. He has not forsaken me. And yes, there's times when he's silent, but that does not mean he's not faithful. He's very faithful and kind, and I'm so, so grateful for his constancy in my life. Reginald D: Absolutely. So, Mary, many people feel defined by what happened to them. How do we shift from being victims of our story to stewards of our story? Mary DeMuth: That's a great way to put it. I, for a long time, wore that badge. I'm a victim. And it got me attention. Probably not the best kind of attention, to be honest, but it did give me attention. But after a while, I realized that's not the kind of attention that fills a heart. It's shallow. And so I realized, finally, after I walked through all that healing, that's not who I am. I'm not a victim anymore. I am a child of God. I've been adopted by the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. And yes, I may have been victimized, and that is true of my story. But today, I am healed. I'm set free. I have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. Like, I mean, all those things are true of me. I'm a child of God. And so that shift has been very dynamic, and it changed everything. And that's really kind of the whole underlying message of Restory. We're Set free. Not just to be joyfully free by ourselves, but we're set free to set other people free. We're healed, to become healers. And we are given much so that we can give much to others. And that's kind of the. So what of our story is to intervene. And I'm telling you, I can't tell you how much joy I get when I can walk alongside a fellow struggler and just give them a shoulder to cry on. It just blesses me so much because it means my story has meaning. Reginald D: Yes. And now you have purpose and all of that with your life when back then you probably didn't even think that you had purpose. You're trying to figure out this whole thing that was going on. But he has a way to kind of move things and create things to let people know that, hey, you know, you are assigned. You know, you're here for a specific reason. Mary DeMuth: I like that word assigned. Good job. I really like it. Reginald D: Thank you. So, Mary, you talked about divine turning points. What are practical ways someone can identify those turning points in hindsight and even in real time? Mary DeMuth: It's really hard to determine them in real time. I'm much better at hindsight. So I just want to let everyone know if they're having a hard time defining their turning points right now, or embracing them maybe is a better word. Because usually in the moment I see a. You know, like a left turn coming, and I'm not real happy about it. I hope and pray that as I get older and wiser, I welcome those things. In the Book of James, it talks about counting it all. Joy when we encounter various trials. Trials. The Phillips translation says, don't resent trials as intruders, but welcome them as friends. And I hope that I'm getting to the point where I can welcome a trial as a friend. I'm not great at it yet, but maybe in the future I will be. Reginald D: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. So as a survivor of childhood trauma, and I really think it's going to be impactful. As a survivor of childhood trauma, how did you reconcile faith with suffering without minimizing either one? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, I. You know, it's. I think first I need to say that it's okay to ask those questions because we have a great big God who already knows we have those questions. Questions like, why weren't you there when that happened to me? Why didn't you rescue me from that trauma? Why did I have to walk that trail of tears? God already knows we're asking those questions. So hiding it from him isn't doing us any good. And it's better to wrestle through them. And some of them, you'll get answers from him immediately. And some of those I'm still working through, but I'm filtering them through the goodness of God. And I also am asking questions and understanding God's audacity to give every human free will. And so I don't like that. I mean, I joke that I like free will for myself, but I don't like it for my children when I exercise my will over them. But he gives people the gift of free will, which means that they could harm us. And that is something I don't deeply understand yet. But I know that my life and my every circumstance has been filtered through the sovereign hands of God. And that does help me in some of those questions that I have. Reginald D: So what's the difference between rewriting your story and your own strength versus allowing Jesus to restore it? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, you're talking to a bootstrap girl here. Because of the way I was raised, I was an only child. If anything was ever going to happen, it had to be up to me. If I was going to take care of myself. No one else was going to do it. I had to feed myself. I had to do all the things. And so that was actually great for me as a little kid. It helped me to endure the trauma. But after I became a Christian, all of this self sufficiency was of no benefit to me anymore. In fact, it was thwarting what God wanted to do in my life. And so I've had to. Over the years, I've had to learn the art of surrendering my own will and saying, yeah, well, this is what I'm going to try to do, God. But I realize that's not probably the right way to go about it. And then I've made like a thousand mistakes and kept trying to do it on my own, and then learned the hard way that it's better just to let the Lord take over and let the Holy Spirit who lives within us to do his thing. The scripture says, cease striving and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations. I'll be exalted among the earth. No matter what happens, he's going to be exalted. Every time I go to sleep at night, he weirdly runs the world without me. And I don't know how he does it, but he does. And so. So I need to remember that he is strong and I am in need of his strength. Reginald D: Yeah, I had an uncle one time that was a pastor, and he was talking to somebody and it was talking about they've been praying for God to do something in their life, and then once they pray, they'll still be up all night. Right. My uncle said, well, you know, there's no need for you and God both to be up all night. Mary DeMuth: He's already doing it for you. Reginald D: Go to sleep and he's up. Let him. Let him work it out. Yeah, that's great wisdom because, you know, here's the thing. I. I get it. When people have trauma in their life and things going in their life, that's tough, man. I mean, it's tough, you know, you don't see it coming. Like you were saying, you don't see it coming. It hits. And now you're trying to figure it all out, you know. But one thing about it, you know, out of all the pain, all the things that happen, people think when it say in the Bible by his stripes will heal. They think of sickness. That's not just sickness. It's. It's all kind of stuff. It's, you know, not only physical, it's emotional and all that stuff. So. But at the end of the day, you know, if it crushed you, you got to think about it. It kills him, you know, so it's one of those things that if you keep your faith, I think it all be all right and get into the place where you know who you are in him. Mary DeMuth: Right. That's a good reminder just to remind ourselves. And sometimes I have to do that with myself. Just like I'm adopted by the king of kings, I am loved. And because of that identity, then I'm not going to be shaken. The world may shake me for sure, but ultimately my feet are standing upon a rock. So I'm grateful for that. Reginald D: Yes. So, Mary, in your experience mentoring writers and believers, what's the most common lie people believe about their past? Mary DeMuth: That it is irredeemable and that their story is too big for God to change and to turn around. And I meet with people like that all the time where they. The problem becomes bigger than the Lord. And that's where, again, where that act of surrender comes in. I don't know. Like, there's not a formula, a secret surrender formula. It's just an honesty like you were talking about. God doesn't need us to be fake and use big words. He just needs us to be honest with him. Lord, I feel like my past is too big for you to redeem and change my heart about that. And also, I give you permission to change me because I don't want to live that way anymore. Reginald D: Yes. Because my grandfather said, a lot of times, you got to have a made of mine. You know, when you go to him, you got to trust it. You know, sometimes it's the process, because, you know, with a microwave generation, we want it done right now, especially when we feel in pain, you know, but it just doesn't happen like that, so. Mary DeMuth: It doesn't. You're right. You're right. It doesn't. Reginald D: It doesn't. You know, and you'll still deal with certain remnants of stuff as you go through life, you know, but it'll drop as it goes, and. But like I said, you got to trust God. You got to trust the process. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, yeah. So true. Reginald D: So, Mary, for someone trapped in toxic cycles such as relational, emotional, or spiritual, what's the very first courageous step towards healing? Mary DeMuth: I often tell audiences that an untold story never heals. And so if you have not told your story, maybe you have a little secret that you haven't told anyone. The first step is to tell your story. And some people are really afraid of that. Like, it's terrifying to them. But I have a couple little hints along the way. So one is, if you're a journaler or a writer, write down your story. If that freaks you out, then say it into your phone, and then ask the Lord to send you a safe person so that they can listen to that story, and that's the beginning of your breakthrough. And then to remember that community is everything. And I would not be where I am today, today without my community, without people loving me, letting me cry, praying for me. Mostly just praying for me. Honestly, I'm here today because of prayer. So I think a good first step is telling your story, and the second step is being prayed for by your community. Reginald D: Yeah, it's, you know, it's something about prayer and community. People who have a genuine heart about what you're going through and try to be understanding at the same time. So now here's one of the biggest things. Not knocking anybody. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Reginald D: But I've seen things happen differently than I thought that should have. So how can places like churches, Christian communities, better create safe spaces for honest storytelling and trauma recovery? Because I think a lot of times people go to church and they're looking for the answer, but they don't feel kind of welcome to tell you the whole story without them looking bad or anything like that. Mary DeMuth: You know, I think that starts with leadership, and I can count on one hand in like 30 years of church going where a pastor or a preacher has talked about sexual abuse from the pulpit. And some of those people that talked from the front were me. So, because I brought it up. And what that does is that shows the congregation that we don't need to have this be a taboo anymore. We don't have to live in shame. If we hear it from the front, then suddenly we realize we're not broken beyond repair, that leaders are willing to talk about it, and that this is a safe place to bring up difficult things. Similar things to, like spousal abuse. We don't talk about that very often as well. Or maybe **** addiction. Just those kinds of things that are taboo. We need to speak about them and apply the word of God to them and normalize them so that people don't feel like freaks all the time and that they feel more comfortable in seeking out help. Reginald D: Absolutely. Absolutely. I really think the church needs to be of some churches. I'm saying all churches. But growing up in the church and I've been through this thing. I'm 54 years old, so I know how this thing roll. Yeah. So, you know, to be more open to an acceptable for people, you know, that's going through a little more than the most. Because at the end of the day, it's a place of healing. You know, just depends on how you got to do it. You know, you got to go a little deeper than a great sermon. You know, got to go a little deeper than, hey, I'll give you some food. You know, you got to go a little deeper and get to the bottom where they feel accepted. Because if you walk in a room, and I told somebody this one time, I said, if you walk in a room and you are just say, for instance, poor, and you walk in a room with all these successful people, nobody kind of welcomes you, talk to you, you know, and mentor you. You'll feel like an outcast. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Reginald D: And you'll never show back up at that place again. Mary DeMuth: It's a really good point. Reginald D: So, Mary, what would you say to a person listening who feels exhausted through everything they've been through, purposeless, and have forgotten or think they're forgotten by God? Mary DeMuth: First, I would say we have to stay in our Bibles and we have to have biblical literacy. And by doing that, it means that we remind ourselves of the gospel, that Jesus lived this perfect life. He died for each of us, even those of us who feel really small. And he gave us a brand new life after resurrection. And so, wow. I mean, that's Just an important truth. We also have to remember that our emotions do not dictate our faith. We can acknowledge them and feel them and lament them and work through them, but that does not change the reality that God is for us, not against us, that he died for us, that he is with us always, even to the end of the age. And so we have to be disciplined in training our minds to believe the truth about who we are in Christ. Reginald D: Yes. Yes. That was great. That was great. Because one thing I would say is that when you look at the story of Christ, he raised up people that were less than all the time, all the time. So I believe that right there. So why do you think he did that? Mary DeMuth: Well, that's how I met Jesus. I fell in love with him because I kept hearing stories about him through a young life, and it was just stories from the Gospels. And Jesus was always, like, running around looking for people who were broken and helping them. And I thought, well, okay, that's me. I'm the broken one. I'm the woman at the well. I'm the, you know, woman with the issue of blood. I'm Mary Magdalene with all the demons. I'm all the things. And Jesus chased after those people. And he was kind of, like, really truthful and pointed with the people that had it all together, but super compassionate and open to those who are just falling apart. And so I thought, okay, there must be room in the kingdom for me. Reginald D: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the thing about it, because he know, he made one present. We went to the synagogue. He went and spoke. He walked and spoke to all these kind of high officials, need leaders. And it was like, who is this guy? You know, he did it one time to let him know, hey, I am who I am. But it went right back out and went out to the, you know, after the people. That was more thought of as less than. So. So I got what I have quick fire questions. Mary, you ready? Mary DeMuth: Okay. Reginald D: All right. Give me one word that describes what restored living feels like victorious. Okay. A Bible verses anchors you in hard seasons. Mary DeMuth: You know, there's so many. But I think about 2 Corinthians 12, 9, and 10, where Paul has this thorn in the flesh and he asks God to take it away. And the Lord says, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in your weakness. And then Paul says, most gladly, therefore, I would rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest on me. And then he talks about being, well, content with insults and distresses and persecutions for Christ's sake. Then he says, for when I am weak, then I am strong. And I just. That's my life verse. I love it. Reginald D: Oh, yeah. That's one of the best ones. That's one of the best we have weekdays. Trust me. Mary DeMuth: Yes, I do. Reginald D: So what's one myth about trauma recovery you wish people understood? Mary DeMuth: It's not fast. The myth would be that it is fast. That like, in an instant you'll just be, so you meet Jesus and you're healed. But no, it takes years because, you know, trauma is insidious and it lives inside of our bodies. And so it just takes a long time to untangle that. Reginald D: Yes, it does. And I think that's the biggest thing that, you know, it's one of the things that if people can get that in their mind, that, hey, it's the patience with this thing. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Reginald D: You know, if you can't get that patience part down, back, or have a little bit of patience, it's going to really be tough for you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. So true. Reginald D: So finish this sentence. Your story isn't over because. Mary DeMuth: Because God hasn't finished rewriting it. Reginald D: Perfect. Perfect. I love that one. So I'm gonna leave it there. So lastly, Mary, how can listeners purchase your books and listen to your podcast and all the exciting things you got going on and you're doing? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, they can find me at marydemuth.com and on socials at Mary DeMuth. My podcast is called Pray Every Day. It's been going eight years now, over 3,000 episodes. And basically all I do is I read scripture for about two and a half minutes in order. Right now I'm going through the psalms and then I pray for you according to that scripture for the rest of the time. So it's a five minute podcast and it's a really great way to start or end your day. Reginald D: There you have it. There you have it married to me. Thank you so much for taking the time out. You are amazing. Amazing. You know, I really, really admire your faith and your endurance and going through the things you went through and, and recovering and taking it and blessing people with your story. That's what it is. I think the biggest thing a lot of times, I mean, we get the Bible, we get prayer, we get all the stuff, but the. I think the biggest thing that changes people is testimonies. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Reginald D: You know, that's the biggest thing that ever changed me. If I hear somebody's testimony, I'm like, oh, man, it's really real now. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, exactly. I love hearing stories. Reginald D: I'M not reading it, you know. Mary DeMuth: Yep. Reginald D: So thank you so much, Mary. Mary DeMuth: Thank you. It's been great. Thank you. I appreciate it. Reginald D: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for listening to Real Talk with Reginald D. If you enjoy listening to Real Talk with Reginald D, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts. See you next time.