Ep 510 DareDevil Born Again season 2 (Spoiler) Review

In this episode the FilmBros discuss Daredevil Born Again season 2

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What up, everybody? I'm your host, JP, and this is my co-host Josh.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

And welcome back to another episode of the Film Bros Podcast. Alright, Josh. Today is your favorite day of the week. Double D Tuesday. That's right. Double D Tuesday. Double D Tuesday. Unfortunately, for this, at least for this year, Double D Tuesday has been officially went through, right? We're already done with Double D Tuesday for this year. Except for this one. This will be the last Double D Tuesday until possibly next year in 2027. Nice. So, Josh, let's go ahead and just tell them what we're gonna do the other half for right now, and then we'll go ahead and start jumping into everything that we need to start breaking into. Because honestly, I have a lot of questions for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

We are reviewing the last. Oh no, sorry, how long? We're reviewing Daredevil Born Again 2026.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

You and I both know who Daredevil is. He's the man who knows exactly what happened on the Northern Star. He knows exactly what happened in my apartment, and he knows exactly who the real criminal in this courtroom is. Isn't that right?

SPEAKER_04 1:36

You're a fool.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

No, I'm not I am Daredevil.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yes, Born Again, season two. Who would have thought? Who would have thought we would have been back with Daredevil, back with Charlie Cox, right? Who would have thought, you know, a couple years ago, if you would have told me that, I would have said, you're crazy. You're crazy. It's not gonna happen. It's probably not gonna happen. But it happened. We wound up getting our first introduction to Daredevil, obviously, back in Spider-Man, what was it? It was No Way Home, right? Spider-Man No Way Home.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Um, it was kind of like a cameo, and then we got him sprinkled around here and there. Finally got a show off the ground, had some issues with that show, they had to go revamp it. Then here we are with season two. Um we talked about the first half a little bit. Obviously, if you guys want to hear our full thoughts on all four of those episodes, go check that episode out. We're gonna talk about it a little bit here. Um spoilers up ahead, obviously. And and yeah, yeah, I just thought I started off like that. Josh, last we talked, I wasn't really rocking with the first four episodes. I think it was starting to pick up towards the fourth episode. Honestly, I think the first three were probably not the best. And I I was able to analyze my thoughts. Um, I kind of boiled it down to I feel like they were still trying to make up for what um they basically did in the first season, so they had to basically take a few episodes to close a couple of those chapters and reopen a few a few more to basically get season two going. You were basically loving this show since the beginning, right? I I believe you you basically have been rocking with season two. You feel like it's a step up from season one so far, or at least with the with the first half as soon as we uh were talking about it. Um there was no no issues with this next half that we're gonna be discussing. I mean, obviously I feel like you were on top of your double D Tuesdays.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Yeah, no, I enjoyed every last bit of it. I think I think season two is really good. And far greater than season one, but yeah, no, I really enjoyed everything like on the back end of it. On like the back end of the the season? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Now the first couple episodes were cool, but I think the back end really had drove me in a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Okay, so kind of like analyzing a little bit, um, you know, now that you've seen the back end, you kind of feel like the f you have different thoughts on the front end a little bit. Just it it kind of was taking a little bit to take off off the ground or something. Or I mean I I don't want to put words in your mouth if you want to kind of put it in your own description.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

I yeah, no, it's just more like the f like okay, I think everything that the first half sets up we get the payoff for at the back end, but also I think we get a lot more hard-hitting stuff between everything as it as it all ramps up toward the finale. So I mean I I would say the setup very much is a slow burn and everything else is like an explosion right in your face, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Right, right. I I can kind of see that as well. Um, because I I kind of do think after episode five, I want to say like maybe episode six, we really start taking off. Um but I mean that's gonna be that's gonna have to come down the line a little bit more because that I have a certain outlook on when you have three episodes that rock and then the rest of them are kind of not the the best if that if you know if you catch my drift. Um so we're gonna have to dig a little bit deeper for that. So season two uh has a 87% on the tomato meter with an 83% popcorn meter. Josh, are we feeling this? Are we feeling this right now? This uh the this rotten tomato score.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah. I think both on the up and up. I I guess I could get behind it. I was hoping I'd hope for 90s, but you know, I I guess we're okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

No, 87 and 86 ain't too bad, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:54

No, no, no. Yeah, no. That's right, not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

So, I mean, you know, you know what we say here, right? It's like what everybody says. I mean, we love rotten tomatoes when when they right and we hate them when they wrong, right? And it just depends on what we're talking about on that subject. But uh Rotten Tomatoes is one of those, uh, one of those things that you know we just love to take a look at. And to be honest, sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't. I gotta say though, God I could see the eighties. I could see the eighties. For me personally, though, I gotta say score should be just a little bit lower to reflect what I'm thinking. But I mean, I can understand why people kind of like it. I mean, this is the show gives you the blood, it gives you the action. I mean, the season two picked up the action a lot more. I gotta be honest. Like, season one, they tried to do their best, but it just wasn't hidden. There was probably like two good fight scenes in this season. There was at least three or four that I could really sink my teeth into, and I was like, alright, that's pretty cool. Um, but yes, Charlie Cox, like I said, is back as Daredevil. We have Vin Vincent D'Nafrio as Wilson Fisk, uh, Artie Froshen as Buck. We have um Jenny Jenea Walton as BB Ulrich. Um, obviously Ulrich's daughter from what the original Netflix series, right? Debra Ann Dahl as Karen Page. Uh, we did get a little bit of foggy in there, a little bit of foggy, so he made a return as well. Wilson Bethel as Benjamin Poindexter, aka Bullseye, and Michael Gendaloffey as Daniel Blake, and so on and so forth. Everybody else kind of falls in the line. We get some cameos this season as well. Um, not really too much in the front half, but in the back half, we get some Jessica Jones. A lot more Jessica Jones than I was actually expecting. So, I mean, kind of raises that um that little bar for me. And the little reveal at the end, too, that apparently nobody gives a shit about because I've never heard anybody make a peep about it, which kind of makes me upset. But I mean, I'm kind of there for it. So I mean I'm kind of happy to talk about that when we get to that point. Um shoot, what happened? Did I just take the page off? I did, I did. How do I get out of this page? Wait, are you on my way? No, you're not. I cheated. Okay, so let's get to the season two episode so we could just start breaking it down the rest of the way because I want to just start talking about it so we can get through it and have the best conversation ever, even though I know Josh is probably going to hate me. At one point. It's okay. Yeah. So season two, episode five, we're gonna be starting from there, Josh. Obviously, uh the grand design. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

After Bullseye shows up and puts uh and puts Vanessa in the hospital. It's up to Daredevil to keep him alive and uh struggle to get through the city as they're being hunted by Vigilante the Vigilante Task Force. Fisk uh stays by Vanessa's side. I think this is the episode where we get all the flashbacks and everything between them. Real I almost cried. I was like, this is real tear jerker stuff. And then we get on Buck Buck Buck's end, we're finding out that he's a little bit of a leak. And he doesn't want to be a leak anymore. But he's leaking stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

I enjoyed this episode. Um I gotta say, a little bit, this is where Episode 4 kind of raised the stakes for me, and then they kind of stalled in this one a little bit. Uh only on the whole I wanna say the whole Wilson Fisk and going back into the whole, you know, I understand that they're trying to build up something that Netflix basically did, but I feel like we already hashed that whole stuff out on like how they met and everything, and I like I said, I understand the circumstances are different because of, you know, like I said, spoilers up ahead, but because you know Vanessa got the shard in her head and you know they're trying to get past that point. But I do feel it was kind of cheap, just a little bit, just a little bit. Uh I I feel like we should have built up to something like that for like a a finale, but due to the fact listen to me, okay, when I say this, due to the fact that they had to basically make up what they started in season one, they basically had to wrap all that up and give the characters whole new motivations mid-season. So where they could have probably started with this episode or maybe finished with this episode to start like a cliffhanger for the next season or something and make that build-up kind of worth it. I kind of feel like they they you know they kind of fast tracked it in order to to basically get an idea out, which obviously the idea is to I mean you to talked about it with me a little bit off off of this, but I mean, um what was the you said the next season is supposed to explore which one? The the devil something?

SPEAKER_03 11:29

The devil and cell block D.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Okay, so like it like for the story's sake, it makes sense on where we're going, but it's just weird, like it's weird to have something so major happen in the middle because you kind of make the stakes go up here, and I feel like we got to a point by like episode six where we're like at that point, and I was like, oh well, we still got like two episodes left. So they really did surprise me how they were able to make it um like drag out and still have an epic finale, but I do think something that big should have happened in a in a point where we would have actually sat with it for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

I don't know, bro. I don't know. I disagree, I disagree. This is this is everything we were building up to. This was this is the culmination of uh basically a whole season. Well, I I think we had to get here. I mean, sucks that Vanessa had to die, and I know Fist is gonna be doing his own thing without her, but like I this is the culmination of everything from the beginning of Foggy's death to now. Like, I think we've sat basically building it up and we just had to get there all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Oh, okay. Exactly what you said, it's the culmination, but what doesn't culminations usually happen, like I said, resolutions usually happen towards the end of the season where like the stakes get to a a certain point, right? That's what I'm saying though, is that like I feel like they because of the fact that they had to readjust because they had to fix certain things from the first season, and obviously they still had to kind of I feel like as though they had to still kind of do it this season, they got us to a point in the middle of the season where like it peaked and I didn't think it was gonna go any higher, and they were still able to do that towards the end of the season with episode eight and still raise those stakes even higher, which I thought was crazy because I didn't think that it was gonna be possible. So I think they played it outright. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, I just think that it was odd placement, if that makes sense. Odd placement.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah, I don't know. Like it's I just don't I don't get that. I I think it's exactly where it needs to be. You know, I think we like I said we we we got there, it just had to be done, and I mean the next couple episodes is exactly after this, it's exactly where we'll get to Fisk and his development because eventually it's why he derails and he loses essentially.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

So I mean, I don't know. I thought it was well placed. I liked it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

I can see your side on it. Maybe we agree to disagree on that one, but one flaw that I did have with this episode, and I was just like, guys, like we can de-age Wilson Wilson Fisk for the flashbacks, we could de-age um you know his wife, but when Foggy and Charlie Cox basically made their flashback debut in those god-awful wigs, dude, I started busting out a little bit. Dude, those wigs had me dying. I could not believe that they actually recorded that, looked at it and said, Yeah, these wigs, these wigs are fucking they they're young now. Like they're definitely younger. I that's the only I think that's the only thing in this episode, besides my other point, where I was just like, damn, they just did them kind of a little dirty right there. But that's about it. Did you did you you didn't notice the wigs? I like I straight out noticed the desk.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Obviously, they're gonna obviously they're gonna look a little funky, dude. I mean they a little?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

No, they could have done a little better than that one. I mean, they fucking they it's like they used all the de-aging stuff on them, and they're just like, look, man, all we have in the budget for this episode for you guys though, is these fucking mid wigs right here.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah, but that's kind of on point though, because Netflix did the same thing. They didn't de-age them, they just gave them like five different looking wigs.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, but they made they made it look better than that. That's what I'm saying. It was just more of a it was I think this is just more of a nitpicky thing, but it like just the weird thing that it just felt like there was so much production around it, and then these two wigs were just so blatantly cheap in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

You're worried about the wigs, and I'm crying about everything going on.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Me too. It's the fucked up part is that I'm over here trying to be sad and shit, and then I'm like, oh look, a flashback with foggy in them. I wonder how like the you know how they're gonna look and everything, and then they look exactly the same. They just gave them some funky ass wigs. It's it's fucked up, really. It's fucked up if you think about it. Um, but yeah, I gotta say, I it's still one of it's still a good episode. I I like the direction that they did because like I said, it just feels more because of how season one went and how like the beginning of this season was kind of going, it felt kind of like a hard pivot for me, but I still enjoyed this episode. I still enjoyed it. It was really good. Um episode six, requim.

SPEAKER_03 16:20

Requiem uh fisk, he's crumbling, he's crumbling, and while he's on the while he's derailing, the city's still going crazy, Daredevil with the help of Jessica Jones, who we find out has a baby and is low-key with um what's his name? Luke Cage now. It uh they they basically go up against the task force and stop you know cage isn't in this operations again.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

He's not and that's not revealing happen until later on, too.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

So yeah, no, we find out that they're they end up together. So spoilers, but yeah. Not there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

I wanted to wait, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

I'm pretty sure Disney Plus uploaded that shit, dude. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I know they have that's all I'm saying. That's the weird part for me, and I was waiting to talk about it, so it's weird that you just brought it up out of nowhere. But it's weird that nobody I I seen nobody, okay. Soups didn't post about it. Nobody post, nobody posted about any Luke Cage possibly being the baby daddy of Jessica Jones. Like nobody, I did not see nobody. You didn't even say that. You like I talked to you and you finished the show before me, and you weren't even like hyped about it. You weren't even talking about that. You talked about goddamn everything else. And I was just like, why is nobody like I watched it and my jaw dropped?

SPEAKER_03 17:47

And I was like, why are nobody talking about this shit? Well, that's because in the comics we know that they get together. I I just think you're behind the curve a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Oh, oh, I'm not a comic book reader, so that was just me. Like, I was like flabbergasted a little bit. I was like Because didn't they have a little bit of a fling in their show? That's what I was trying to think. I was trying to think about it. I don't think there was any indication that they were gonna get together. I did in my headcanon, there was a little thing where I was like, her and him would probably be like a good couple, obviously, because their power set and everything like that. But uh like other than that, I was like, I don't think that they ever made a hint or a mention that that was gonna happen. So the fact that it did happen was kind of from the comics, they're they're together.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Okay, well, yeah, but this one's a lot more mentioned. The episode doesn't mention that and you brought it up so it doesn't mention that. It doesn't mention that. She has a kid, she had the test force go after her, they're trying to stop another one of Fisk's um little shipments, and they do that. This is a nice little episode where we get a shit ton of action and we get to see a little bit more of Matthew Lillard. Which I mean, that's fine. I thought this episode was really good too. I think the action has gotten has fucking peaked, dude. I thought this shit was great.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I enjoyed this one, this one was a good one. Um same thing that I kind of have with this show is that there's some things that just kind of happen where you're like, um it like they kind of do it just so it can keep the show going, and there's a lot of talking. And so it one of the things that I texted you about this too, and it kind of irritated me, but in the end of this episode, you know, Daniel basically is kaput, right? He's kaput. Um and for me, like everything was going great, everything was like everything up until the moment that they like he was face to face with Buck was when everything went out the window for me. Only because for me, if you're gonna if you're about self-preservation, which Daniel's character showed me that he's about self-preservation and he wanted he had goals and he basically had a mindset of like wanting to be at a certain point and whatever, uh to the point where he was this close to selling homegirl down the river, uh the Ulrich's daughter, right? He does all this stuff, and at the end of it, he just takes it. He just I I didn't like that choice. I didn't appreciate that. Like the fact that he just stood there, like he could have ran with her, he could have done something else. Like, I personally I didn't like Daniel in the first season, but he was really growing on me on the second season, and I was kind of understanding like the the kind of mindset that he was kind of going for and everything, and I just feel like they did him in in that way just because he wasn't a fan favorite, nor was he somebody that people were enjoying in the first season, I don't believe 100%. Uh, and they just did him in.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah, no, I I mean I disagree again. I I think it all makes sense for his character. I think us spending time with him and her, and I mean with his mom and all that, like he obviously has loved ones. He's all he obviously didn't come from a kind of home that Fisk came from, so he was never gonna be that person. And like I enjoyed how he was so close, and then like if he would have sold BB out, it obviously would have cemented that kind of thing. But the fact that he let it go, and the fact that he was just like, I'm gonna just face him myself, and you know, I know I'm never gonna beat him, so he might as well just make it quick type shit, basically. I kind of enjoyed that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Better than that, not everyone gets it. Because even in the episode, he was like, you know, I got if he's if he kills me, he's gonna come after you anyways, and he's still gonna go for my mom, and blah blah blah blah. Like he was worried about his family. But in the last Second, he just took it like your mom's still in danger. Oric's still in danger. Like everybody's still in danger. And like it just seemed like a pointless thing because he wasn't doing it to slow him down. He wasn't doing it to for any of those reasons. And even if it was to slow him down or whatever, he didn't speak, he didn't say where she went, nothing like that, whatever, blah blah. He could have still ran away. He just kind of walked up and took it.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Well, yeah, because that then he puts his family and all that all of them in danger.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

But he already said that they were all in danger because he was supposed to bring the girl.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Well, yeah. Well he didn't bring running with her. Running with her already put will put more of them at risk.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

That's the thing. But that's exactly. And so him going and not giving her up is still putting his family in danger, and he just took it.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Well, yeah, because I mean if they stop him, at least if they put the put the hands on him, the leaks stop. His mom doesn't have to worry about that, they don't have to worry about going after the mom to make it a make a point. They can just leave all of them alone. BP is the only one that's gonna get like more danger, basically, because she's still gonna keep snooping and doing her fucking job.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

No, she's still on the list because they know that he's she's the problem.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

Exactly. Yeah, that's why she's the fucking being done.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I don't think you're understanding me. I'm gonna explain it again. Okay. His problem in the show, and he explains this explicitly. He says, if I go in there without you, he is going to kill me, he's going to kill my mom, he's still going to after you, it doesn't matter. I'm going to turn you in. That's basically what his mindset was. If he turns her in, his mom's safe, he's safe, everybody else is safe, right? He doesn't turn her in. Okay? His family is still in danger. They're still gonna kill him, his m his mom, BB, everybody's still gonna go, but the only thing is that he made it a little bit more harder. Because he didn't give him information. Either which the fact that he just took it regardless, it just seems weird. Because you were just worried about everything a second ago, and you just let her go, and like I said, didn't put up a fight or anything. Dude puts on his gloves in front of him, doesn't even try to like knock him out to run away, doesn't even try to do anything like that. He just It's like the script knew he had to die, so he needed to die.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

And that was just basically I mean I do I disagree. I I think that the the whole point is that he was coming full circle and come to terms with what was coming. I mean, even if they mention that his mom's still safe or whatever, that means I mean we'll get there, but hopefully, anyway, that they just don't don't ditch him. Hopefully they don't just ditch him, but that they'll confirm that the mom's still safe because I mean he gave himself up. BB's the only one essentially in danger because she's still gonna be snooping and doing her job. That's a given, that's not gonna stop. He was him going in there and basically owning his mistake.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Let me ask you a question. If you know that you have information, okay, and you know if you give if you don't give yourself up, and even if you do give yourself up, because you still have the next person over here that you still need to give up or whatever, they're gonna go after your family. They said that it doesn't matter, they're still going after your family because they gotta make it a point, right? He's still a mole, they're still gonna wipe out that whole section because it's a mob. Right? You're still a mole, they're still wiping out that you know they're gonna wipe out your they're eviscerating your whole family regardless. You're giving yourself up knowing that they're gonna eviscerate your family still?

SPEAKER_03 25:43

If I'm in the shoes of him and I'm thinking, No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I asked you a question. If they if you know that you're gonna get your family's gonna get eviscerated regardless, if you give yourself up, if you don't give yourself up, blah blah blah blah blah, you're gonna give yourself up and still let your family get eviscerated?

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Well, no, I know I'm saying that's what I'm saying. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

If you know if you know that your mom is gonna because they said that they burn families. They basically go through lineages if they know that you're a rad. That's how it works. So if you give yourself up, the family is gonna go down too. I would assume if you cared about her, you would have tried to put up a fight, get her somewhere safe. He didn't even show that off screen that you know, mom get somewhere safe, I'm gonna send you some money, blah, blah, blah, whatever it does, blah, blah, blah. He just gave himself up.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

Yeah, because he's basically coming to terms and owning up to the family.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, I understand that, but your family's still getting eviscerated.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Oh, we don't even we don't know that for sure yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Okay, so we're doing headcanon. But from what they said in the show, I'm telling you what they said in the show because I listened, he said that they're gonna go for him, his family, if they don't even if he doesn't turn her in, he's still they're going for everybody, doesn't even matter. So the fact that he still walked in and took that bullet was weird to me. I mean, if you want to go double check the episode to check me if I'm right on that one, that's fine. But it it I feel like the way that they put it and then the way that he just laid down and took it, like I said, he just went out of character completely because the script said that this is the end of the line. And that that's just where I mean, like I said, I would just say go double check that again, just so you can look at it and see what he says and everything. But they they clearly say that he they're all gonna die regardless. So if you're all gonna die regardless, why would you just take it? You're gonna come to terms, but then your family's gonna die too.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

We're just gonna have to disagree, agree to disagree. Because I I don't I don't believe that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Then go do a double check. You're gonna have to do a double check because I think that's a problem. That gotta be a plot. And other than that, though, I think that the episode was done fine. I think Jessica Jones, I like the whole thing with the powers losing, it kind of reminds me of Invincible a little bit with all of like uh what is it? Adam Eve and everything when she was having a baby and she was losing her powers or whatever, blah blah blah. Like, so that was pretty cool. Um, I that like I said, the action got a lot better. Action got way more better since the first season. Um, I mean, there's still like CGI blood and everything, and I I gotta say, you know, the white tiger in the final episode bashing people in too is kind of crazy. I thought there was gonna be a little bit of PG-13 for the children, but that's okay too. Uh, but we'll get there when we get there. Uh, any issues with episode six before we move on to seven?

SPEAKER_03 28:36

No, I kind of enjoyed everything all around.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Yeah, okay, okay. Uh, episode seven, the hateful darkness.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Okay. With uh Karen on trial, we get Fisk versus Matt versus Karen in the whole courtroom. They think that she's a accomplice to Daredevil, he's a vigilante, whatever. Um this basically sets up episode eight, where everything is still ramping up to this point. Because I don't even think we get all that until episode eight.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

No, this this is where we get the big old legalese and everything. We get like all the lawyer talk.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Yeah. So we get a bunch of setup for episode eight, which is Karen versus Fisk and the trial and all that stuff. They basically bring her in for everything, which is accomplice to Vigilant Vig a Vigilante.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Oh. Yeah, so it wasn't episode six, it was actually episode seven, where uh, you know, he bites the dust and everything. But yeah, uh, this is I like this one. I really like how they actually put some intensity into the lawyer scenes this season, uh uh obviously compared to season one. They really did a l a lot more, you know, uh not sprinkled out throughout the season, obviously. I wish that I I think that that's what the fans have been asking for is like that whole balance, like what they did in the Netflix shows, where he's kind of like the lawyer, and then he's also doing Daredevil at the same time, like having that same kind of balance. We haven't really had that this past two seasons, so it was kind of cool that they dedicated I these last two episodes to the whole lawyer stuff and everything. Um I do feel like we had a rush around to get to this point, only because you know, the whole Daredevil on the run and you know Matt Murdoch and Saving Fisk in the last season and everything. So it felt like a long time coming to get to this point. So when I got to it, I really enjoyed it, not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Yeah, and I kind of like the way they brought everybody in. I I mean I liked the ending where like basically because she was worried about someone else, is why they brought her in, basically.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

I still can't stand the vigilante, the vigilante task force, like the way he shot their own like little rat. I was like, that's fucking crazy. He was like, I know it was you, and just lit his ass up right there.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Mm-hmm. Just so you could incite the riot is Yeah, I thought that shit was nuts.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

But I really like this episode. I really enjoy their back and forth. Karen, I'm kinda losing interest in Karen a little bit. I mean, I've never I liked her in the first uh show, but this one where they're trying to make her like the badass and Daredevil's right-hand man. I don't know. I get there's something about that rubs me the wrong way a little bit. Because you're verging on the on the toes of like Jessica Jones, the Punisher type type of people. And I just don't I just don't know if I agree with that 100%.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Um I agree. I agree with that. I think that was something that um I kind of brushed off because I even in the Netflix series, she kind of held holds her own at times and everything, but there was a couple times where I was like, that's a whole armed guard. Like she was just able to she was just able to dupe them out. Like at that point, just get Electra or something in there or something, you know what I mean? But like I do like that she's able to hold her own. There's some things that kind of get unbelievable, but I think that's a Disney thing where they kind of just, you know, they just they're just like, hey, we need the the girl fan service, so here you go. She's she's a badass, too. And I feel like when they do that, it kind of does it a disservice more than uh than the service that they're trying to do, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Um yeah, and it's just a little distracting because you're telling me she's gonna have a whole debate about Bullseye being alive and all that stuff, and I can understand that from a certain point because she was Foggy, she's Foggy's friend too, and they have they all had a history together, but you don't get more of a say than Daredevil and the Vigilante, you know what I mean? Like I I don't know. Something about that kind of stuff, when I get really like nitpicky about it, if it bothers me just a just a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

One thing that I really like about this season too is uh the way Bullseye is. Um I loved them in season three of the Netflix series. I loved when they were uh when they brought him back last season, but they just upped them to ten in this one. I like how I like the gravitas he bring he brings, like the aura that he brings and all that stuff. So this is a part where I'm a little conflicted about, and I wanted to talk to you about it a little bit here, because the whole Daredevil coming to him for the team up thing. Look, I understand the whole trope of you know the bad guy can you know be a good guy sometimes and everything, but I do believe Bullseye has done some shit that I as a hero cannot consciously work with him because of how heinous the shit he has done. Um so I get a little conflicted when it comes to that. Would I like to see a show about him? Yes, don't make him an anti-hero, like the Punisher, like but just if he could be like a mercenary or something like that, and you know, like I wish they would do this already. I feel like people have been talking about this for a while, but like where they just make the villain the main guy, make him evil, but have the good guy the bad guy, basically, you know, like have the roles reversed kind of thing. Like, if they could do something like that with like a bullseye show, it would be magic. Like that shit would be like a bullseye show.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Yeah, a bullseye show where like each episode is different. Or I mean if you're gonna do like case by case, like one episode, one season's a whole job, and he runs into other street heroes, yeah. You know what I mean? That'd be kind of cool. Yeah, like imagine he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

He doesn't have to lose every single time, but like he doesn't have to completely murder them either, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Right, right, right. Like he I mean, he runs into Hawkeye, he runs into fucking you know, Punisher, he runs into Electra, he runs into like all these people, and just while he's out on the job, because he's he's a hired gun at that point, you know what I mean? Like that would be fucking cool. And I'm not saying make him a hero. I and I kind of enjoyed him and Matt's whole dynamic, like Matt being like, fuck, I don't want to work with you, but I just save your life sometimes, and you're going to do uh the way we do it.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

He does some crazy shit where you just like as a hero dog, can can you can you consciously work with somebody who's doing stuff like that? You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you have to, bro. Sometimes you have to. Like if you're vegan and you know somebody you can fuck up a cheeseburger right next to you, no problem, and they'll do it right in front of you knowing that you don't like that shit, like can you can you eat with them again? Like, is that something that you could do? I don't know. I don't know that that I'm a little conflicted with that, but I do love bullseye and I do like their dynamic. That's the thing. I love the way that they work, so I feel a little conflicted. He killed Foggy. He killed your boy Foggy. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, if somebody murdered you, I'm not gonna dab them up, bro. Like, I'm not gonna be like, hey, I need your help. I'm not, I need your help to get this shit done real quick. Like, I can't do that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 36:12

No one's dabbing anybody up, bro. If you dabbed them up, I swear to god, I seen a little dab up, a little bullseye daredevil dab up. He had to, he saved his life, and in return, he was like, hey, I need a favor. That's it. That's the I think that's the point of their interactions.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I'm saying though, wouldn't you just be like to your favor? Uh just get out of my face, you dirty monkey.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

No, not I guess not when you need the help. That's the thing. That's what I like about Daredevil. Uh, and my, I mean, one of my gripes still is that we haven't really gotten like his Catholic sign because that's what helps that's what helps him grapple with certain decisions.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

They're not doing that with Disney.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Right. And it fucking sucks. It's annoying. It's annoying because I you know me, I I had the same issue with the fucking first season. If he would have like he went to Karen for all of his decisions, but usually that's the part where he goes to speak to the father and all that stuff, like, hey, I should I really forgive him whatever. And you know, the priest would say something like, You don't have to forgive him, but if there's greater evils, like you know, to like cool the shit or whatever, like something like that. But it just sucks because they'll go into the hole, they'll go into the chapel, they'll they'll see the father, but not an ounce of religion in that motherfucker, and it just sucks, because that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Yeah, no, they're just this Disney don't want to alienate people, so we don't do that. We just we skip that whole part all in general, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 37:42

But I always I always thought it was dumb.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah, but like Netflix wasn't afraid to do it. So I mean Exactly, you know, you know it's a dark time when you make me praise Netflix, Disney. It's fucked up. It's fucked up, right? Um but yeah, I I gotta say that the these I wanna say the last three episodes really took off for me. Episode six, episode seven, and then with episode eight, like with the cliffhanger and everything like that, now that we're getting to that like point, I I gotta say, like the first half really had me struggling a little bit there, but like the second half of this show really got me got me going for sure. But episode eight, Josh, the Southern Cross.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

The Southern Cross. This is where everything goes down. Karen is on trial. Fisk comes in, Matt is like, hey, I'm gonna represent Karen, and we're gonna throw this whole bitch out. So while the walls are closing in on Fisk, his his shit's toppling down, the city's going crazy, we get a chef kiss of like 20 minute of like Matt in the fucking courtroom just going in, which is chef kiss. I fucking everything about that was.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I mean, they could have just basically wrote like what is it? What what's that like that whole saying, it's like a big thing. When they're like, you can't handle the truth. Like Matt should have just done that shit. Like at that point.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

No, bro. They get technical, and that's what's fun. That's what's really enjoyable. And so we get that, we get Fisk and Matt being real cat and mouse, like, you don't want them to know, type shit. And Matt's like, you want to fucking bet?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

I like how I like how Fisk whispered in his ear from across the room. He was like, Listen here, motherfucker, I'll burn this bitch down, let me tell you. And he and caught Matt off guard. He talked it, he talked out loud, and he was just like, Oh, my badgy. Like, it wasn't me. Oh, I ain't tripping, I swear to God.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Voices. Like, it was really good. I really enjoyed that whole scene.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

The tense the I gotta like the best thing about this series, about this season, about Daredevil in general, and like the fact that they got Vincent Denarfro like to play Wilson Fisk, like they're dynamic together. Like, every time, like I can ignore some of the dialogue sometimes because sometimes they just over talk, but like when they are in a room or they're like discussing something together, I'm locked the fuck in every single time. Like, I can't not look at the screen when they're going back and forth with each other. It's so great. And then just the way D'Nafrio delivers some of his line, and it it's so sad sometimes because when he's up against like Karen, like, and there's no this to her. Like, I'm not trying to be mean to her, but like when they had their little interaction and he was like scaring her and shit, like she didn't she it seemed like she was reading off a fucking script. Like, I I like it didn't seem like she was matching his energy, and he was just bringing all the energy. And I was like, dude, this is fucking like it's in it's insane. But I I think he's a like top tier, like top five villain for me, like a hundred percent, just off his performances. Hawkeye brought him down a little bit for me. I ain't gonna cap. I ain't gonna cap that little section right there brought him down for me a little bit, but we picked him back up, so we're good. It's not the same, it's not the same guy.

SPEAKER_03 41:10

We we go from Daredevil all the way down to Born Again.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

I was just gonna say, this guy ain't the same as the one that is Netflix either, because this guy's mowing down whole people through hallways. Okay, Daredevil gets hallway fight scenes, and this man is just over here bitch slapping. Oh, he blew dude. I got scared for a second. He picked the dude up and broke his back on the on the wall, and I was like, ah, like he scares the shit out of me 100%.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Dude, dude, dude, dude.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

I would like I would have turned around. Like, I don't know who and what kind of balls they had to go and swing at that man, like those guys, but hey man, you I would have turned around and been like, more power to you. That'll have been the other way at that point, you know what I'm saying? Um, but I gotta say, their dynamic is great.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

I love their dynamic is very great. So we get that. Matt, we get Matt's big reveal. He reveals to the world he's the vigilante. Eventually the case gets thrown out, but the city's up in arms already. Fisk gets an assassination attempt from Bullseye, which locks them in the building of the courtroom.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Again, gotta say, too, the fact that whoever signed that paper to say, hey, I'm gonna be the one to put the bullseye shit on. Hey, bro, sign give him his last paycheck. Give him a bonus while you're at it, bro. Like, give that man a bonus. He has brass balls, that guy.

SPEAKER_03 42:39

That's crazy. Imagine meeting the real deal while you're fucking playing cosplay.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

I shipped my pants for him, bro. Like, I would have I would have totally turned around and just been like, holy shit, here's your outfit back, bro. I'm sorry, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Yeah, that whole scene was crazy because even when he was like wrong, wrong one or some shit like that, and he pulled the trigger, I was like, you know he ain't missing shit.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, yeah. I again, uh a different different praising for bullseye, but same thing. Um, I the camera work for his powers, I a hundred percent love. I love like they do it for Daredevil too, but I feel like they put emphasis on bullseye because they're just like, how the fuck is he doing? Like, if you watched it and just heard people drop, like it's cool for a second, but then uh at one point you're gonna be like, How the fuck is he doing this shit? So I like that every single time they put emphasis on every single thing, and they do like some crazy camera work. Like when he threw the knives down when homeboy was trying to grab the gun, like the fact that the camera was with it spinning with the knives and like went into like that shit was cool. I can't even lie. Like they were they were cooking, they were cooking with his powers. I can't like the camera work with his powers, like even in the diner scene in the earlier episode, too, when he was like throwing the spoons and they would like Like quick pan the camera to the boom boom and then it would just like move all over the place. Like they the way they emphasize his powers and the way that they really wanted to show that and showcase it on camera.

unknown 44:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

Amazing. Amazing. Fucking amazing.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Can't lie.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

Can't lie. It was really good. We get Fisk versus the City that that he can't he can no longer save. Um they offer him a deal that was to uh nothing won't be held against him if he just ups and leaves. He's like, fuck that. I want the ones. He runs through 10 motherfuckers, 20 motherfuckers, uh meets Matt outside. They have a big fight. They they they have a nice little heart-to-heart scene where like he's like, look, we're both gonna we both love this city, we're gonna have to give it up. You know what I mean? You're gonna have to leave. I'm gonna have to go to jail. We're just gonna have to love it from a distance, type shit.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

And I love that. I love that so much. I love that the way it all wrapped up the season, and I can't wait for season three because I know Fisk is gonna be like longing for that kind of stuff again. Yeah. And I know Matt is gonna be fiending for that in prison.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

I yeah. Uh you said it perfectly. I love that cliffhanger. I like how they both yeah, it was like an aminable like an ammonac amicable amicable. Yeah, amicable split where they just said, hey, yo, like this bitch is toxic, it's ruining us both. Am I right? Like, it's just doing some dirty shit to the both of us, right? Like, we can't be here. And I perfect, perfect. At least on that front, okay? Because we gotta be honest here, and I gotta talk to you about it because I'm you know, we gotta be we gotta be real. Did this season stick the landing? Okay, that that's this is gonna be the big thing when it comes to this episode. Now, I found it hilarious, and I kind of wanted to find that picture, but I can't seem to find that one certain picture. Oh, this one. So there's a few things in this series that got a little controversial, right? One of the things was the I am Iron Man moment, right? Okay, nobody really expected that to happen. I included, right? You kind of explained it to me, and I'm gonna let you explain it on on here as well, so we can kind of be on the same page with everything. Uh so that was kind of one of the things that some people were kind of like, well, what the fuck was that? Another thing was the whole Karen um, you know, being a big uh part of like this finale and actually getting her hands dirty and stuff like that. That was one of the things you kind of brought up. Another thing was that this ending was probably not what a lot of people were expecting, especially with Jessica Jones being in here as well. Uh, there was like a uh a meme on Twitter where like this picture was posted and it it wasn't well Karen was there, but it was Jessica Jones and White Tiger, and back here was like Luke Cage, and there was an iron fist over here, and you know, it was more characters that they a lot of people were kind of expecting, and we kind of were just left with you know the bare minimum, and like I said, with White Tiger 2, which is pretty cool, but we didn't really get her costume either. We got like this um street version for this season. Hopefully, in the next season, we'll probably get something like that. Um, I know we talked a lot about the lawyer stuff, which was really cool. I personally liked it, but some people were kind of like, you know, kind of dragged on a little bit towards the end there, in in some people's opinion. So, I mean, you can start wherever you want, but that's kind of like the gripes that some people had towards the ending here.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

I didn't mind the data or real. I mean, was it a little cheesy? Sure. I would have wrote a different way. I think the worst part about that was him throwing his cane around the building.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Oh, when he was like, Oh, yeah, like I gotta kind of prove that it's me kind of thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Yeah. I would have wrote something different. I would have been like, I would have probably wrote it differently. Like, oh, I can hear fucking a car crash about to happen outside and then it happens, type shit. I don't know. Something. I would have preferred something like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Or maybe Fisk revealing it on his own or something. I would have probably preferred a little bit too.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

And then hit and then him being them being like, is it true? And he's like, Yeah, it's like reluctantly types.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Yeah, that makes sense. That would make a little bit of something like that, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 48:30

But I don't mind it. I know I've because I know it sets up what it has to set up for the third season. Uh, which is just he's gonna be locked up with criminals that are gonna want to hurt him. The devil's gonna be trapped in a prison cell. Like, that's great. I love that shit. Um, as far as the army goes, I don't know. I know people are expecting Spider-Man and Luke Cage and all of them. Unfortunately, the budget doesn't fall for that well that but Fisk versus all of them. I mean, come on, we need to be a little more realistic. He can wrong some people, but the one person he wronged entirely in his little career is Daredevil. You know what I mean? Yeah. This is like Joker. Like, imagine Joker fighting all the robins, but no Batman. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, imagine that. If they took Daredevil out and he was fucking off somewhere and it was this gang of people, you'd be like, what the fuck? Daredevil wasn't even there. So now we're upset that these other heroes weren't there even though they don't have beef with fists like that, technically.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yeah. Um so I mean I I didn't mind this ending either. Um the whole Iron Man thing, that was kind of weird. The Iron Daredevil thing. That was kind of weird, so we can kind of agree on that. Was I expecting a little more heroes? Uh to be honest, I don't even think the season was leading us to that direction. So for me, I I don't think that bothered me. I think I like the direction of Fisk going in there because it was more personal. Uh exact they boiled like these last two episodes basically boiled it down to like, you know, it it it was about New York and like basically, you know, are who's who's gonna be able to run it? And I mean, I know some people are gonna be like, well, Daredevil wasn't trying to run it. Well, in a way, you know, he's trying to have his rule while Fist is having his rule. I know that Daredevil's doing it from the kindness of his heart, but I mean, if you can't live together, then disperse whatever. So I really don't I didn't see the the the show going down that road where we're gonna get a bunch of heroes. Would it have been cool? Like I said, I mean if we would have seen like Luke Cage fight for a little bit cool, um Iron Fist would have been a cool thing to see, especially uh seeing the actor back. Yeah, I can understand where some people got their hopes high, but I gotta say that's your fault. Cause I did I literally don't see the show going to that point. Maybe next season because of the leaks, and we'll talk about that um in a little bit, but right now, the way the show was kind of going, I did not see that happening at all.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

So I don't understand why people got that either. I mean, it's expected because from the comics and stuff, but this whole from the jump, this whole thing has been about these two individuals.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

I mean, you could kind of be like, oh, well, Daredevil's in the MCU now, so they should have more heroes to kind of hone this threat, especially if you know he's a mayor of New York. Like, this is kind of like a kind of like a bigger deal than just being kind of like a low-level thug or like a mob boss working under underground, you know what I mean? So I mean I could kind of understand that point when they say something like that, but at the same time, we all know that we're not gonna get it like Iron Man and some shit like this, right? Like, we all know we're not gonna get it. You could maybe get Anthony Mackey, and that's only because he needs work. Like, that's just let's just be honest.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

That's crazy. That's crazy. I think it works better as a metaphor for like New York versus Fisk, where like they won't work they won't put up with his shit no more, basically.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

There you go. That's a good way to put it, yeah. So, and if you would have put like heroes in there, then it wouldn't have symbolized like the same thing. Like it this is like New York rejecting his rule kind of thing, you know what I'm saying? So like I that part is another thing where where people were kind of nitpicking. So I uh yeah, I don't understand that position whatsoever. So um, what about the lawyer stuff? I mean, I know that it kind of culminated up to the point of I am Daredevil. Um, but same thing, I I didn't have an issue with it. I don't honestly, I don't see how anybody had an issue with it, especially when people were wanting the whole lawyer side of Matt Murdoch to be there for like about a whole season and a half, and you know, we finally get it and it's prolonged, it's too much. It's maybe it was too much all at one time, you know what I mean? Like Netflix kind of did this thing where they sprinkled it out. Like I said, it was like Matt Murdoch was a lawyer and it was Daredevil, and it kind of felt like every episode had a little of both, where this season it was mostly Daredevil, right? For the most part, and then you got the lawyer stuff at the back end kind of crammed in there towards the end. Can I kind of be upset that the fact that they did that? Yeah, you kind of crammed like a good chunk of what people were kind of wanting towards the end, but I like the way it was set up, so I I mean I don't really see an issue with that either.

SPEAKER_03 53:29

So me neither. I mean I you I kind of enjoyed everything that we got from the court cases to the action. Like I that's the thing. I've never felt I've never looked at a court scene and thought, huh, this this is fucking whack. Outside of like the the one time where we got the chick representing uh swords swordsman or whatever the fuck his name was.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Oh, She Hulk?

SPEAKER_03 53:56

Well no, no, no. Then the in this one where where in the begin in the earlier s uh episodes where she was trying to figure out where they're hiding all the vigilantes and like season one, basically that was season one. Oh, in this one with swords with the swordsman, the swordsmith, whatever the fuck his name is. They have a whole fight scene. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Oh, you're right, you're right, yeah, I remember.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

In like episode two or three, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

That kind of brings up a a little point for me as well. I don't really care for the whole subplot of you know what's her name, Gina, Janine, or whatever, the the girl next to Buck right here. Um the the psychiatrist? Yeah, the psychiatrist. I don't really care for the whole you know, the vigilante.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

What makes a vigilanty? How do they think? Because I mean she's supposed to become muse in season three.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

And that's not gonna hit us hard because muse didn't hit hard in the first season anyway.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, and then like the fact that we're kind of dragging it for this long, and I mean, I do kind of like this little intensity of like when her and Fisk are talking, and it's like, do they know or does she know if like uh Daredevil is Matt Murdoch or something like that? You know what I mean? I kind of enjoy that a little bit there, but like the whole story of her and her PTSD, and then even at the end getting this book and you know, writing her story down and blah blah blah blah, like for me, it's kind of whack. It kind of it kind of takes away from other things that we could possibly be focusing on, or maybe just cut that out entirely and do a different kind of storyline. I just I don't care for that storyline at all. Except for the little like I said, except for that little section where like her and Fisk kind of like look at each other like Did you know that you were fucking Daredevil? And she's just like Yeah, maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

I I don't care for a character. You can very much tell that she took a back seat here. I hope they don't try to make her fit like another like Fisk's next love interest, because uh holy fuck, dude. That sounds that that'll be fucking terrible. I kind of prefer if he's upset, missing.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

No? She don't look like she's gonna get with Book. No. Like she looked, she looked like she was getting kind of like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

She's gonna obviously she's obviously gonna become used to try and be like, oh, I'm trying to feel like a vigilante or whatever. I don't know. I don't care. I think they could do away with her. The only thing that I think would have spiced up the courtroom stuff is if Foggy was there. That's it. That's like where it all comes down to for me anyway.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

I like how everybody takes a bullet for Fisk. Like that man does not take now one bullet.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Yeah, no, bro. He but yeah, that's the thing. He fucking he has puppets for that.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Yeah. I like give Buck a raise. He he deserves a raise 100%. Uh uh, I believe. Um, so uh did the finale stick the landing for you at least.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

I I think so.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Yeah. Um I gotta say I think so too. Especially like where the season's kind of going. I I mean we didn't touch up on it because we kind of touched up on it uh earlier, but like that reveal where like Jessica Jones and Luke Cage had the baby and everything, like that that was like some hot fire for me, like for next season. Um especially because we know it's gonna, you know, we had some leaks and like we're gonna talk about that in a little bit right now. But um I did I did enjoy that. I did enjoy kind of like the ending setting up, you know, Daredevil being in prison, like you said, that that storyline that you were discussing as well. Um I know some people are kind of uh I don't I don't know if some people I think it was Soupes that posted it where it was like, oh, we're gonna see Daredevil in brand new day or something like that. And I was like, I I think that's where everybody gets their hopes up. I think that's where like a lot of people they hear shit like that and then they get their hopes up, and then they blame the studio when they really they should be looking at like some first of all, you guys are you should not be listening to Supes. A man hits a ceiling fan with a t-shirt every once in a while. That shit's weird. Um but yeah, I I gotta be honest. I I do for a season one that really was not great for me, season two started off a little weak and then really gradually started picking it up. My thing is that it landed for me. I wonder why there wasn't a lot of chatter when it came down to this season finale and the season in general. I didn't see a lot of chatter. Now I was kind of chalking it up to you know, maybe Invincible. I know a lot of people were kind of get uh roasting Invincible because of the animation and you know the changeups and everything. I know like the boys was kind of getting drugged through the mud for like a whole for like a few weeks as well. Daredevil barely made a peep. I think the most that I've heard anybody anybody talk about it was when Vanessa got the glass in her head. And I feel like after that it was dead silence. It wasn't really much coming out from the Daredevil front.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Unfortunately. Maybe because it got smushed away. I don't know. But I mean, I was there, I was enjoying it ten times more than I was enjoying Invincible, way more than I enjoyed the Boys. Yeah, no, I think maybe he probably just got squished. I mean, the people like not many people were talking about Maul. You know what I mean? And like that's just no, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

I saw a lot of people talking about Maul too. Maul, I saw the boys, I saw, but like I said, Invincible and the Boys that were like roasting. I the mall was getting a lot of praises. Um I was seeing a lot of stuff about that Gary show that was that was like a surprise job drop. But like their double, it was it was the mid-season with the glass, because people were like, oh my god, they put it in the trailer, people didn't notice. And then again when um towards the ending, and that was about it. I I didn't see a lot of people talk about the f that's what I'm saying. Like I didn't see the Luke Cage nothing reveal. I there was it was dead silence on the Daredevil front, so it was kind of weird for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

I don't know then. I don't know where that where the mix mix-up could have happened. I I don't know. I I think I did see something about viewership dropping. I I don't know why, but like I said, that could be a number of things. That could be because like, you know, it was just too many other shows going on, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Oh yeah, except for the significant viewership drop. 4.5 million views over its five weeks, a 46% decline from seasons one eight point three eight point three million time frame. So a lot of people were hyped. Okay, well that I think that's what it is. I think that's what it is. Because if I wasn't doing this episode today, I gotta be honest with you, I wouldn't have made it past episode four. I I think I it hear me out, okay. You could probably you could, you know, make up your own theory too in the middle of all this as well. But like I do believe that because the first three episodes, the four episodes, were kind of like I said, making up what happened in season one kind of dragged a little bit for some people. It dragged for me, I know it did a hundred percent for me. They checked out after episode four, checked out by episode three or four. If they didn't make it to episode four, they were most definitely not making it the rest of the season. If somebody made, if they at least made it to episode four, they could maybe decide, okay, I could chug along a little bit more, or maybe not. But if you stop at three, there's there was no reason for you to even revisit the show. Like at that point, it was it was kind of like you're clocked out, you know what I'm saying? So could that have possibly have been the case?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

I I dude, I don't know. If people don't have enough brain power to get past whoa. What? Some people do have that problem.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

You just dissed me, man. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

I just told you, if we didn't have to do an episode, I probably wouldn't have made it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

Well, that's a f that okay, but like, are you a fan or no?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:40

I am a fan. I'm a fan of Daredevil, but I gotta be, but I gotta be honest with you. Daredevil Born Again season one, we talked about this. It wasn't that great, and you gotta be honest with yourself and me here as well, and the people that listen. It was not that great. And then when you've watched season two, it got better, but it still wasn't like the here here it goes again. You guys are gonna make me have to glaze Netflix's Daredevil. I hate when I do this, hell's freezing over. That shit was top tier from one to three, no skips. Okay, I you could watch every single episode, you could even watch the defenders, no skips, ain't no problem. The problem with season one of Born Again was that they were trying to make they were trying to do what they did, and they tried to do it in a different way, and when they started seeing like, oh shit, people don't like it this way, so now we actually do have to copy them, it just didn't hit the same. And then season two rolls around, and you get a little bit more organization, but you really don't get that discipline that they were looking for until maybe it's episode five, episode four, episode five, depending on where you go. But like, I I don't it's it's just it doesn't compare to what we got before, and if it did, it would it I I feel like it would be doing a lot better. I would probably be a lot more invested. Like they have the budget, the g they should, it's Disney. They should have the writers to basically write something amazing, but like how you said, instead of getting some real hard-hitting stuff with the Christianity side of Daredevil, they opt out of that shit, right? Um, in the first three seasons of the Netflix version, we were actually exploring the superhero side and all this, that, and the third. We haven't moved past the whole this is New York, this is my city thing, whatever, blah blah blah. I'm not here to see you guys fight over a city. I'm assuming we're gonna get like some villain shit from him, you're gonna have to try to stop him or whatever, blah blah blah. Like it's cool to see people get beat down by the villain. Fine, like it's cool sometimes, but like that's not the finale that we're looking for. I think what we're looking for is more in the veins of like setting up something bigger, badder, darker in the next season, not existential crisis for seasons on end. You know what I mean? Like I it's just we we need to we need to move to bigger scaling the power the superhero shit and not like my love for the city is just for everything, blah blah blah blah. Like, no, your ops killed foggy. Go get that, go handle that. Why are we worried about oh, this is my city?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

Your city's rejecting you, son. You ain't see that, and then now they loving you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

That's cool, but like we we need to focus on other things, and I feel like Netflix was kind of focused on that stuff. They weren't scared, either you liked it or you didn't, and I feel like Disney's just trying to please a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:44

I don't understand where you're trying to where you get where you think people want like something that grand. I don't know. Netflix is not for you, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Netflix from season one to season two. You you go uh from Matt getting his suit to dealing with the hand to going to the defenders because you had different spin-offs and they were jumping from place to place and then you like they were working on all cylinders to the point where they basically broke when they were making iron fist, unfortunately. But like they were they were actively trying to make something big within its own universe within the city, not fighting over the city, we're fighting to keep the city safe as it's supposed to be. There's villains, boom, boom, boom. We're not fighting to see who holds control. That doesn't make any sense. It's more of a the city is free to do what they need to do. You're doing bad shit over there. I'm here to stop you. And that's what it's supposed to be doing. But we're not doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:48

Mayor Fisk is the culmination of all that. We we got there, we took him down, we're charting, we're doing a new thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

We took him down, he he rose even higher. No, he's he's out, he's out of the city. What do you mean? Oh, yeah, but this season. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So what but the okay, but we can agree that Netflix was able to touch on the Christianity stuff, right? Like that was something that was Catholic. Yeah. Yeah, the Catholic stuff. And we were able to, you know, kind of explore that kind of side. So it kind of made the show a little bit interesting on that front. You know what I'm saying? So like there's that's what I mean, I guess in general. Like, we it seems more singular versus in the Netflix ones, we had like, you know, the superhero thing. We had him struggling with his morality, we had, you know, other superhero uh, you know, other cameos within the show that weren't just, you know, got the same people for the whole the whole thing. We actually got a variety of different superheroes.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

Yeah. And I think that's another thing they need to work on too. Like their fucking connectivity. Why are we getting to season three and we're barely getting everybody back?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

Right. I mean, it's nice, it's a nice little introduction. I like how they're kind of slowly rolling it out. Same thing with, like I said, with uh Luke Cage. It's cool that they're kind of rolling that out. Um But yeah, there's just some things that I feel like Netflix did better that Disney's struggling to do. Um the first season, I I think we talked about this, but like the fact that they were like trying to be edgy, and it just felt like they were just trying too hard at some times, you know what I mean? This this season it kind of felt like they were a little more subtle with a lot of their you know the way that they were going about it, but you know, every so often they they just have to go all out, just so you guys know. Like that one scene um when I thought it was funny because I don't know if you noticed this, but I I I kind of let out a little chuckle. But after uh Vanessa passes and all that stuff in the hospital, and Fisk is sad, and the doctor comes up and is like, it was an honor, and you know, I'm sorry, and blah blah blah. So he crushes them, right? Like you don't see the doctor bleeding, nothing like that. He falls. Disney's like, you know what, we gotta actually show them this because this is what the fans want. So they give us like a second of the doctor's face and him bleeding or whatever, and then they pan to Vanessa and him, and you could you should so clearly see the body off in the corner, but it's gone. It's either it wasn't recorded or it was digitally removed, but it just was not there from the angle that it was supposed to be shown, and then from the next angle, when Fisk is leaving the hospital room, it's he's there in the background, and Buck quickly walks in front of it to block it. So like I said, there's times where they this season where it felt like they were trying to like do it for the fans because they know like the fans want it, like here you go. But I think that's where it feels like it's trying a little too hard, right? Like it could be a little bit natural. You don't have to you don't have to be afraid, just make the show, you know what I'm saying? Just make the show like it needs to be. Like if there's a body, there's a body. There's there's no reason to hide the body, there's no reason to try to make it less graphic, there's no reason to try to make it more edgy just because you feel like the fans want edgy. Just make the show as it's supposed to be. If blood needs to be here in this scene, put it in there. If it don't, don't put it in there. It's simple.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:22

Yeah, it's just Disney. I think I can take it as the value as it is, but it's still gonna be stuff that you know Disney won't do or touch on because it's Disney. Yeah, and it's just and it's just like who get who cares?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:37

And to be honest, it's gonna have to wait to see in season three or if they're gonna learn from this mistake, but that could possibly be why Daredevil's kind of being held back a little bit here. Because Daredevil's kind of like a uh, you know, like a Punisher, and that that's why I feel like the Punisher is never gonna reach its full potential like it did in the Netflix series as well. There's just so much stuff in there that they can't do, or they just won't do, or maybe they want to like dip their toe in it first to see if people are gonna, you know, accept it or whatever. Because we remember the backlash that happened when they were like, oh, you guys put these R-rated movies on Disney Plus, my children watch this. Put parental block on that bitch, okay? Like Disney, I think Disney has outgrown this whole like stick of like, oh, we're just for kids. Because those kids that you were just for kids for grew up, and so now we need more mature content at this point. So I think Disney just needs to get over themselves at that point, and we would get really good shows with these characters, but hey, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:37

I mean, if the comics can handle, you know, aggressive shit like drugs and addiction and you know, even like grape and things like that, like the shows shouldn't be shying away from that shit either. The shows, the movies, nothing like that should be shying away from it either. And we're not saying it should be like the boys, but it should be things and topics that are actively addressed, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah, and it like and not everything gotta be, you know, think pieces either. Like it can be, you know, put in there and it could be done with like justice or whatever in some shape, form, or way. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be like, oh, this happened, so now we need court justice. No, like Daredevil can handle that. Like it, he's done it before. He's done it like when the court system fails, who's there to pick it up? That's uh that's what he's supposed to do. So ultimately, though, Josh, since you did you do believe that it stuck the landing, I'm gonna let you go first. How'd you feel about this season? One being the best, uh one being the worst, ten being the best, five being in the middle. Go ahead, man. Let us know.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:40

I thought it was really good. I don't I like even with my gripes about the the coggy stuff and the I mean the religious stuff, which is I which I do think is a big part of Matt's character, and I don't know how the fuck they're gonna do it in a season three where like him in a jail cell with nothing but a Bible would make sense to me, you know what I mean? But I don't know how they're gonna do that. Uh I am excited to see it though. I mean, I enjoyed it for what it was. I really like it. I I I I gotta give it like maybe eight out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Okay. I could see that. Um I'm hoping with this next season we get a better season three, but I cannot deny, and I cannot look over that the first three episodes of an eight episode um well, three and a half, because I I think the fourth one was hit or miss. Like you could really love it, or you could really like been like if like I said, if you've seen the OG Netflix stuff, like you could really kind of be checked out because you're like, oh, they're rehashing this in a way, but just trying to pull out your heart strings in this sort of way. Uh I I want to see it the way Josh sees it though, because I kind of feel like um that kind of makes these last five episodes enjoyable instead of these last four episodes enjoyable. Um but like I said, I can't deny the first the first ones were kind of a drag. The action was great. I love the CGI. Um it I'm pretty sure them not needing to have to scrap and redo a lot of the show really helped in in the long run when it came down to this season. Um gotta give props to D'Nafrio. Uh Charlie giving him props. Jessica Jones, I'm hoping she does a lot better in season three. There was a few things in this season that I feel like she could have uh delivered better when it came to script-wise. It just felt like she was kind of reading off a page a couple times. Uh so hopefully we get a little bit more out of her um next season as well. All in all, I think I gave the first season like a five. I gotta give this one like at least a seven, a seven and a half, seven point five. 100% like a 7.5. I I think it would have reached its full potential if those th first three would have been like the first episode hooked me in, and I would have been on go. I would have been 100% with this with this season because I like the direction it was going. Do I feel like Disney's being kind of a pussy? Yes. I feel like we can get way better stories out of Daredevil if they can just stop being a bitch about it and just kind of give us what we've been uh asking for from Daredevil. He is a fan favorite character, but he's a fan favorite for a reason. Like we need all the aspects out of Daredevil. We can't just pick and choose just because, oh, this is too harsh for some audiences, oh, this is too much for the you know, like no, we gotta give it to uh give it to us the way it's supposed to be in the the how Josh said, the real Daredevil fans will flock that way, and you will probably get way more viewership than what we got with Daredevil uh Born Again season two. But we do know that we are getting a season three because we did get leaks and we know that it is happening, it is confirmed that we are doing it. So, first things first, you did say it. This is one of the earlier leaks that we did get. We are getting the female muse in here. She looks pretty creepy. I ain't gonna cap. But like I told you in the review, I don't care about her story. This is probably gonna suck, in my opinion. This this whole arc. If they wows me, okay. But my pre-opinion before after seeing season two and hearing her arc and everything like that, I don't see this getting any better at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

Basically, I mean uh that's the thing. She we didn't see muse enough in season one for us to care about whatever this is, and the episode that he shows up and it's supposed to be like a big resolution for her and or revelation anyway, she kills him. What are you still scared of? What are you still picking your brain about? You murder you killed him. Usually some people move on. So the fact that we're getting this, I mean, I mean I hope it goes back to the body.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

Some people don't take on the persona of the person that you know that did them wrong, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:11

Exactly. So hopefully this is better than season one. But if not, I'm probably with you about it being fucking terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:20

She did she even just attached the wig on top of the mask, too. She was just like, I'm I am the girl version. This is not the same person.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:29

You know, no one knows it's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

I would probably think that this would hit a little bit more if it was more of a copycat type deal, right? Like if she went down a copycat road where it was like, oh, it's the same person, but you're clearly trying to differentiate yourself from the other person for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:46

So this is as close as a copycat we're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

So yeah, it is what it is. So could be a good storyline, but uh from based on season two, I'm not really excited for something like this, but it's it's it does look freaky. This this was this would make like a good scary movie type mask or something, you know. Um, we did get this one. We talked about this one a while ago. Luke Cage and his hood. We saw Iron Fist, Jessica Jones. We finally got it confirmed in season two that Luke Cage is gonna be in season three because he made an appearance and we found out that Jessica Jones and him shagged and a baby. Yes. Yes, that's that that they did. Are we excited to see these? Yeah, I mean, I know that you kind of thought it was perfect, the ending the way that it was, but I mean, would it have been a little bit better if they got a little introduced, sprinkled through that last episode or not?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:41

No, I'm still I still stand where we are with the finale. I just think that like I know that they're bringing them in to hopefully set them up for the future, but at the same time, they're basically gonna be picking up Daredevil Slack. So I I could get behind that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:57

Okay, okay. Yeah, the same thing. Uh like like I said, I I saw the things on Twitter. I know some people would have loved Luke Cage at that final battle. I know some people would have loved Iron Fist and all that stuff. It would have been cool, yeah. Um, but it would have just been overstuffed, it would have been, you know, like how they did Soldier Boy in the last season of the boys. Like you there's no point in putting people in if there's if there's no room for them. Would it have been cool? Sure, but like them just kind of showing up. Come on now, come on. But it's gonna be nice to finally see Iron Fist back. I don't know if he's gonna get the love that he actually deserves. I did like season two of the Netflix one, not really season one, they kind of made season two a little bit better. I like them in season two of Luke Cage as well. Um, but I know Disney's kind of struggling in this whole department of keeping Born Again afloat uh based on the viewership that we just talked about as well. So that's another thing that I'm kind of worried about. Like, can they do this Iron Fist iteration justice or will it just be another ridiculed iteration? Oh my god. He can't live through two. He can't live through two.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:09

Let's hope let's hope they do do him justice. I'm pretty sure they they they're gonna fix hopefully everything that the Netflix show couldn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

Um I hope so. I hope so. Um, are we getting the red suit? Are we still going black for next season?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:27

I think I think we're gonna get a variation of the red suit. I think if we get a m another modernized version of it, that'd be cool. But I hope we get something similar to what he wore in like season one of the Netflix show simply because he won't have access to a suit.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

Oh, kind of like that all black with the black hood where it's like no eyes and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:51

Yeah, they said they're gonna give him a beard. And Matt Matt, Daredevil with a beard makes sense. You know what I mean? He won't be able to shave. And I mean, in the way he looks in the comics, it goes kind of hard. So maybe we get something like that. Cell block D.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:09

He said that he he would get a beard or something? Like, does he have a beard in the comics?

SPEAKER_03 1:21:14

Yeah, he won't get one. Look at Daredevil with a beard. You'll see you'll f see something similar.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Oh, like this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:32

Oh, that'd be pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:34

I mean, obviously you're not a ginger, but I think we're gonna get something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

I can't wait for the day where we get a helmet where it's like missing, where it's just like the hood on top. Kind of like season one, you know what I mean? Like the black, but it's red and it like it has like the little back or whatever, but like you could still see his neck. It's not all padded like armor and stuff. I know some people really enjoy that whole Netflix heavily armor or whatever, but I kind of want like something like this. This would be cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:08

That's why I think I think if you get like a makeshift something like that in prison, it'd be nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Is he breaking out or are they breaking him out?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

I don't think they're gonna break out.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:22

I gotta ask you, man. I I gotta ask you because I know Marvel fans, they they think in it. You we seeing them in brand new day. Is that's I think are we is that something that we could potentially get, or are we just being the Lulu there too?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:37

I think we can get anything, dude. I don't think anyone was expecting him in No Way Home. Like maybe he goes there to ask Matt how he does it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:47

I don't know. I'm not just like a little cameo type thing. Like we're not gonna see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:51

Yeah, where they have like a second conversation. We I mean we're dealing with the hand. That's all up Daredevil's lane. Maybe he's gonna ask him how to handle that. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

I see what you're gonna handle that.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

Yeah, I don't know if we're gonna get him. I don't wanna get my hopes up, but if we do, that's cool. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

A welcome surprise for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:14

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

I mean, it would be cool. I mean, they did it in No Way Home, so I mean it possibly could be something that that happens. I mean, I it's not something that you can put out all together. But I would I would most definitely say don't get your hopes up high. But it would be cool. It would be cool. We did see him for a split second catch a brick or whatever, so that's or not him, but you know, he was there for the brick scene or whatever. So yeah. But with that being said, Josh, I mean, we're excited for season three, right? We're gonna be going to our next show pretty soon. We're gonna be doing The Punisher this uh upcoming week, which another Disney uh Netflix show gone to Disney, right? And they're basically just hey, everybody loves this guy, so we're just gonna make the story longer from what we got already. Um I'm kind of excited. I know you said you watched it already, Josh. I should I be excited, or based off what I basically said with Daredevil Born Again season two, should I be worried?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:14

I think you can be excited. I think, I mean, obviously this isn't this to me, okay. It kind of felt like what they were trying to do with this was set something up for a potential return at a show. It just we're just not too sure where it can lead up. I know somewhere John Berthold said that if he wants to be a Punisher, he's gonna have to be the one making it basically. So you can tell it led up to it's supposed to lead up to something. We just don't know if it'll continue. But for what it is, I enjoyed it. It's a lot, it's just a lot of but let the bodies drop. You know what I mean? Like that's basically all it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:49

Oh, really? So it's not like he's sad and shit, and then he's just dropping bodies left and right. Yeah, he's like I did see that meme where it's like I think it was like when the boys are uh encouraging me to finish or something, and it is like he's just like moving. I'm just like, oh my god, like what what what is the context of this though? Like, I d I need to figure that out. So I'll be getting to that show pretty soon. I'm pretty sure Josh is probably gonna do a rewatch. We're gonna be recording that, so that'll be our next thing. Let us know your guys' thoughts though. Check out season two of Darrow Born again if you haven't. If you're one of those people that check it out, if you listen to take it from me, somebody who said that they would have checked it out at episode three, episodes four through nine or four through eight are most definitely worth it. I would a hundred percent encourage you guys to go check it out. Um but if you don't, because of season one, I think we totally understand as well. Josh, with that being said though, any topics that they want us to talk about, any movies they want us to review, TV shows, uh you want to hear your voice on one of these episodes, Josh, let them know where they can do all that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:54

Uh Twitter, TikTok, Instagram at Filmboss Podcast, supposed episodes are up. You can hit us up there for any news or movies you want us to cover, but's probably in the social side. Listen to us anyway podcasts at Frembulls Podcast, Spotify, YouTube Music, Apple Podcasts again, wherever Rich Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:14

And with that being said, we'll talk to you guys on the next one.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:17

Talk to you guys later.