Ep 522 Reacting to the Doomsday trailer

In this episode the FilmBros discuss Marvel's Avengers Doomsday Trailer

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What up, everybody? I'm your host, JP, and this is my co-host Josh. Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Film Bros Podcast. All right, Josh. Today we're doing something great. Not just, I would just say, not just for you, but I guess for the fandom. Okay. Uh at this point, I feel like Doomsday, okay, Avengers Doomsday. That's what we're going to be discussing today. We finally got a trailer. All right. I hope you're excited for that as well. Finally got the trailer after discussing the concept art in one of our previous episodes as well. I have it right here on the on the screen for us as well to look at one more time. Doomsday's trailer, you know, at the time of recording, it's been a couple days. All right. We we gave it a couple days to kind of simmer. We're gonna we're gonna watch it to get the full scope of it. We're gonna go ahead and uh basically review it to the best of our ability and see where Doomsday falls on our hype level for the most part. Um like I said, Josh, concept art that we talked about the last time, after sitting with it for a few days here now, um, has it grown on you a little bit? That is Doomsday this monumental event that you know possibly Endgame was back in the day, you know what I mean? Um, I guess the most recent event I gotta say was probably Spider-Man No Way Home. And that's probably the last one from Marvel as of recently. Um I don't know how you feel about this one. Does it feel like the event, or does this feel like another MCU movie so far?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

I think it I want it to feel like an event, I just haven't gotten that feeling yet. You know what I mean? Like I it says Avengers and it says team up and it screams like grand setup for a finale kind of thing, but I don't know if it's there yet, bro. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Where's the setup is the question. Where's the setup for this said finale that needs to be at all?

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Well, no, I mean like if this is the beginning of the finale and then Secret Wars is like the part two, I guess it's like hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

You know, we gotta go, we gotta go through a little history recourse uh real really quick, just so we can make sure that me and you are on the same page because you know, I want to rock with you, right? And I want to believe, you know, Josh is the the the Marvel super fan that I know that he is, right? And you're not just in this for boom bang pal, but for also the film bros aspect of is this movie gonna be good? Is this movie gonna be quality? And if we're gonna jump into this trailer, I want us to be on that same page. So Doomsday was not in the cards originally, as we all remember, right? We all remember at one point Jonathan Major's King the Conqueror was supposed to be our big bad or big bad to the finale, you know what I mean? That's set up, you know what I'm saying, to that was supposed to be Kang. We started getting down to brass taxes, he got his ass whooped by an aunt, got his, you know, he got some court proceedings with a you know with a woman, um, and then he fell off the face of the earth. And you know, here and there he'll make comments about you know the whole Kang thing or whatever, but that made Kevin Fawhy, as soon as he was figured out to be guilty, they gave him their way out, you know. Like I said, Kang on one hand got beat up by ants and was being ridiculed all over the internet, and then Jonathan Majors was over here fighting with a with a woman, and then you know, he lost on that part, and that made the internet as well. And then Kevin Foy said, you know, two L's in reality and fiction, we're on out of here. Decided to go a different direction altogether for a good moment that we did not know what was happening. But then at San Diego Comic-Con, we saw the uh RDJ come out and basically say, Doom is gonna be the big bad for this universe. Doomsday is gonna be the new Avengers film, right? Um, I think the quote that he said was new mask, same task, whatever the fuck that meant. And here we are now, a totally retooled Avengers film that was originally gonna be a Kang movie directed by Destin Daniel Crenton, and it's gonna be interesting to see because we do have a Destin Daniel Crenton movie coming out pretty soon that is also a Marvel film, and you know, the hype levels are ten times different, let's just say, for the both of these films. Um, but you know, for that little rehistory telling, Josh, how do we feel now about this doomsday roster of ragtag team of randoms?

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Alright, man. Look, it was a bumpy ready game, but we're here. So we gotta just we just gotta take it as it as it is. You know what I mean? We can't dwell on the past and that stuff, even though I did like Jonathan Major's King. We just can't dwell on that stuff no more.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yeah, no. One thing that I did not get to, you know, to do when we saw this concept art was read some of the comments that were under the post. And you know, I thought today before we get into the actual trailer, we could do a couple of those posts. We won't read this first one because it's from the ultimate glazer himself. We're just gonna keep going down. We have a picture of Steve Rogers right next to him is a cyborg that says regular dude.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Regular dude.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I I don't know. I uh it sounds like you understand.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Yeah, they're just calling him, they're just calling him like a regular guy, basically. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

This one says here this lineup is low-key ass. With a little black guy laughing. This one says here, one of the worst lineups in any of these movies. Could that possibly be true? I don't know. Not even the artists can paint the actors in a way that made them look like they wanted to be there.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Hello, fucked up. They have a picture of the thunderbolts right here on the side, and it says, Who the hell are these people?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Holy LARP. They were not watching. They weren't paying attention, they weren't there for that.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

This is something you'd see in Skibbity Toilet.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

No, it's not. That's a little stupid.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Steve looks like he came to save the multiverse right after his shift from bouncing at the club. Sebastian Stan is right here and says, Bro, does not know what's going on. Not not a hundred percent. But I mean somebody is praising Cyclops. I mean, that's something that, you know, a little positivity in this in this messed up world, I guess. Uh but yeah, so this concept art, I said it, we probably have like I said, we talked about this in a previous episode. The biggest thing was it does seem like a lot of these people are kind of glued together. You know, nobody here is a cohesive team besides maybe the new Avengers. Um X-Men, it's a bunch of rosters of nobodies or a bunch of randos, right? Uh uh how Channy Tatum finangled his way into an Avengers film. The world may never know. At one minute his his movie wasn't coming off the ground, the next minute he's on the Avengers concept art. So it's an it's an interesting, it's an interesting feat. Uh, but yeah, I do we do have to kind of point out the elephant in the room and is that the concept art made no sense, right? And this whole Avengers Doomsday thing is basically all glued together in hopes that you know it basically works at this point. Avengers Doomsday uh did release pre-sale tickets when the trailer dropped. The first day racked up 16.5 million. Now I know what everybody's thinking, wow, that's a lot. I know variety made it sound like a lot too. So I had to go back and do some digging of my own. I was kind of curious what an Avengers event film would possibly rack up, right? So if you go back to I would say Endgame, that made about 120 million in advanced ticket sales on the first day. Um, and I was like, okay, that's the closest Avengers film. Let's think about something that's closer that I kind of personally feel that is being talked about more than Avengers Doomsday itself, and that's Batterman brand new day. Now they did not release the numbers for this, but they they did they are deeming this as like the biggest first day ticket pre-sales in the last five years, and it that apparently it's going up there with like uh passing the Odyssey, Surpassing Mandalorian Gro Group, Project Hell Mary. Last time we seen these kind of numbers with Spider-Man was with No Way Home. That that basically managed to sell about, I would say about Avengers Avengers Endgame money as as the same thing. Uh so I'm assuming brand new day is basically doing endgame dollars at this point. Doomsday does not seem to be having that same motion at this point. Um and you could kind of Apple's Oranges, bro. No, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! One can argue Spider-Man is Spider-Man and then Avengers is Avengers. You have so many Avengers, it should be, you know, kind of that argument Superman Batman should make a billion easy. Shouldn't the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, shouldn't, you know, the new Avengers Doom. Shouldn't that shouldn't that really bring in about a billion dollars? A billion, two billion dollars? That's at least two billion, I feel.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Well, I mean, yeah, but this is pre-sale tickets for their infinity vision stuff that's sold out within like an hour. So yes, but also no, because they don't have Spider-Man pool, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Um this doesn't say anything about a infinity vision. I mean, if that's something separate, that's something separate. But I as of right now, it's this is all first day ticket sales about 16.5.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Uh go back up. They include IMAX. Um they include IMAX, the most ambitious.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Uh so it's including everything. The Avengers Doomsday, the IMAX one, it's also including almost including their Infinity Vision.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Well, yeah, because they don't have IMAX. They do Dune basically has all the IMAX.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, so they made up something for themselves called Infinity Vision. Right. Yeah, which what does that really do? But you know, it is what it is. A marketing stunt is a marketing stunt. You gotta do what you gotta do. While Dune could be like watch it in the biggest screen that you can, 70 millimeter IMAX, boom. Marvel only could say, hey, I got infinity vision.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Here's vibrant colors, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

We're gonna have to see in the trailer if that actually happens.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

I don't know, man. I don't know. I mean, impressive, but also we know the state that they're in, and they don't have like Spider-Man pool, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I mean, you're dancing around it. I'll I'll I'm willing to answer and talk about this, but you gotta kind of give it to me straight up, alright? Spider-Man brand new day numbers are breaking records for the first day pre-sales. I understand that's gonna be coming up pretty soon, right? But Avengers Doomsday, you know, it's gonna be happening pretty soon as well. I believe when's the release date for this movie?

SPEAKER_03 11:43

The 18th of December.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

The 18th of December. So we're less than like we're about four months away, right? Something like that. Brand new day is about two two weeks away. So it's like I understand the hype is there for Spider-Man because it's right there, but I would assume an Avengers movie would be moving like like they were back in Infinity War days, because it does have the Avengers logo and Doomsdays on there as well. I mean, yeah, we know the real thing, right? We obviously know, hey, they gotta make up certain things, they gotta you gotta you gotta make some love to the audience because they've been feeling a little loveless. So it's like they're making up, they gotta big shoes to fill, especially with this trailer. That is my main point with all this conversation. Spider Ace should have been doing some numbers. Like it should have been the biggest release of 2026 off its name alone. But we do understand that Marvel's been going through a slump like a little bit of a slump lit. It's trying to pick itself up, it's been doing it little by little. Gaining the trust of the audience back. But I don't know how much of a trust you're giving us. If in a way you're kind of thinking like we're you know, I mean, all these cameos and everything, and I mean if you look look back at this poster or this concept art, we have all the characters to make up for an Avengers film, but we don't have all the back story behind it. We don't have any kind of weight behind all this. There's nothing that grounds us to this. So I'm hoping when we get into the trailer, it gives us a reason to give a shit. Am I right? Is that is that right? Is that fair? Is that is that a fair thing to say?

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Yeah, I suppose that's fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Um, and you know, one thing that we are gonna talk about is Doom, and that's one um that's one big question mark for a lot of people. I know some people are saying he doesn't have enough build-up, but you know, some people are saying, you know, we don't need build-up for certain villains, and you know, we were kind of saying that with DCU's dark side, but some people were like, Oh, you need so multiple movies to make a team up boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But you know, Go Post is apparently moving as the time moves on. We're gonna have to talk about that when it comes down. But Josh, it is time for us to walk into the trailer. Avengers doomsday. We have a little bit of conversation in the back end, and then we're gonna wrap it up. This one should not take too long. But Josh, what are you expecting from this trailer to basically bring your hopes high? What is gonna bring the hype level up to 10? Basically, say, I'm there. Pre-sale tickets, you got did you buy pre-sale tickets yet?

SPEAKER_03 14:34

I did not buy pre-sale tickets.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

But no, what no? What is gonna get you to buy pre-sale tickets? What what do they need to show you?

SPEAKER_03 14:46

I think I just think this trailer has to just be good and it has to blow me out the water, and it has to like make me feel uh like like I'm heading on to something big. You know what I mean? Like that's kind of how it has to feel grand, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

For me, I need to know well, I I think that lands on your little category where you're saying like it needs to feel grand, but I need the story to mean something. Because as of right now, all we know is there's a bunch of people in this movie. Dooms in this movie, and that's basically it. We don't know any kind of motivational intentions. I mean, we didn't even get them in Fantastic Four. Um I I just need to know what the like this movie has something, and it's not just like unfortunately like Deadpool and Wolverine, where like it was just it was nice, it was a good cameo fest and everything like that, but ultimately the story was kind of not the strongest aspect of that that movie. You know what I'm saying? So I'm hoping that something really, really grand is gonna happen here. So you ready?

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Yeah, man. I was gonna say one can hope. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

All right.

SPEAKER_06 16:06

Something's coming.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

So we're gonna be coming out right before Christmas. You get you get all your toys being smashed together right before Christmas dinner. Must be nice.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Um okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Alright, Josh, where do we start in all this, man? Where do we start? Talk to me.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Alright, alright. I think we start with Doom and how he looks and how he sounds, and RDJ is him is pretty good. So far.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Okay. I okay. I did like the voice. The voice was nice. Can't cap. Nice, okay. We only got at the beginning though. We didn't get really much from him throughout the trailer, you know what I mean? I mean, it it sounds like he has a little remorse for what he needs to do. Um just kind of like another Thanos thing where it's like he needs to kill people and he feels sorry for doing it, you know what I mean? But not really kind of thing. Um I'm not too sure, you know, what the intentions could be. One thing I gotta say though, after seeing some of those AI videos, or at least some of the the videos of the leaks and everything like that, obviously it seems like those leaks were kind of real. Um I gotta say some of this movie kinda feels like AI in a way too. I don't know why. I don't know if it's just the time that we live in or something, but this doesn't seem real. This movie doesn't seem real to me. It kind of feels like a fan edit. What would this look like?

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Like the void, kind of they're probably in the void.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Like, am I not tripping? Like Okay, first of all. Sam Sam knows he's gonna be losing his job, right? You know he's gonna die in here? He doesn't have the serum. What the fuck is he gonna do? Oh that's right, nobody cares because he went up against the roof.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

He's gonna throw his shield. He's gonna throw the shield.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

If Doom doesn't throw that motherfucker back and slice him in half like they did Peggy Rogers, that's that's gonna be or Peggy Carter, whatever the hell. They they g they gotta Sorry, Sam got to go. Look at Bucky so upset right next to him, like, damn, that shield should have been mine. Uh if I would have had that right now, I probably would have been able to whoop this guy's ass.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

That's crazy. I th I think it's funny that Sam's lineup of the Avengers is just what? Thor, Ant-Man and the Wasp?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

I think we gotta I I think we gotta look at all three over here. All three of the teams, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah, Thunderbolts, Fantastic Four, and then Avengers.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

Ant Man, Thor. Yeah, Bucky. The Fantastic Four. Thunderbolts over here are the Avengers. Is his shield always gonna just be folded?

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Like is is that Oh yeah, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Is his shield just gonna always just forever just be folded? He's just never gonna get it fixed? Like it's just not gonna Is that some kind of gag that we get against Doom I'm gonna be so upset? I don't know. I'm I'm hoping that if it gets So many he's been holding it for so long, and if that happens, I'm upset.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

I'm hoping that it gets fixed.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Um, does this movie feel real to you?

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, but it's also but it's also anybody was the most unbelievable yeah I've ever heard in my life.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

It feels real. It's just not what you expect because there's no heavy hitters on this team outside of like Thor and Bob, I think. And now Captain Record too, but I think Doom go might wipe the floor with half these motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I don't expect Thor and Spew to survive any of this. There's no way, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:47

I don't expect Sam surviving. What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

And give it a bean with me, bro. Like, I need to understand, like, power scaling here. Shouldn't Shang-Chi wipe the floor with Chenny Tatum's Gambit? Like, I understand he got hands or whatever, but like there shouldn't be no chance, right? Like, that shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

I mean, Gambit has is more like the more combat ready in Deadpool. Shang Chi is definitely a lot more hand-to-hand combatant. I mean, I would give it to Shang Chi, but as you can tell, they're clearly no match for each other because the you know the power that they have, so maybe.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I I think he should be winning. Where's Daredevil in all this? Shouldn't he shouldn't he have a hand in all this? Shouldn't he be gonna do Doom?

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Oh, yeah, he's gonna whoop Doom's ass, this guy.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

You don't think you don't think what about the Punisher? What the fuck? Where is he at? He's going up against Hulk. I think he's able to go up against Doom. Should we not have him on the Avengers team?

SPEAKER_03 23:53

There is a lot of people missing this time too, and it feels like it shouldn't be because we have all the people back under the umbrella.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Didn't we get a chair of like everybody that's supposed to be in this movie?

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Remember the the photo that they posted with the people right next to him? So it's it's the fucking Thunderbolts that are by him. I remember they were we said like there's too much empty space right there. It's because the Thunderbolts are with them.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

That's right. The Thunderbolts. Oh, so they took them off on that little teaser trailer that we had, huh? I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

So it was the Thunderbolts, possibly somebody else right here in the cut too, they cut them out in the little background. They're doing a good job of cutting certain people out and everything like that. Like I said, I mean this is basically is that Mr. Fantastic stretching holding the the way for Florence Pugh? Yeah. Yeah. He's like holding Sam's shield back or something.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Damn. She's gonna turn into Elena and get her ass whooped or beat her ass anyway. I'm excited to see them too. I know, I know it's been like, oh, we see Charles every day getting fucking obliterated on screen and stuff, but I can't wait to see them again.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

It was good to see Catherine Newton's still here. She didn't get recasted. Yay. She made it, she made it.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

But she won't be in the movie, so.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Is this passing on the mantle? Are we it was is Scott not making it back?

SPEAKER_03 25:38

I think that's what they want you to think.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

I wonder why they're in the is do you think that it's just the Namor just making a bubble for everybody to basically meet? Like, hey, we need to all talk. We need we need a little space here.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Yeah. In the middle of nowhere where no one can hear or listen to him? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I'm trying to see what was in the background when like this guy came down. Oh, okay. Mystique is fighting, Florence Pugh, got Captain America, Mr. Fantastics right there. I mean, like I said, I we're talking about everything else except what this movie's about. And I think that's I think that's the problem. We don't know what this movie's about still. What is this movie about? What are we doing here? Like what what what is this movie about? Tell me.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

The X-Men and the Avengers are teaming up to fight Doom.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

But doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

What happens in between between needs to be discussed later, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna save a lot of people some tickets right now, okay? Oh incursions. Avengers X-Men. You're bad. No, you're bad. Ping, ping, ping, doom in the background. Oh, it was me all along. Ha ha. Pulling strings. And then they're like, oh no, he's in a decimate. I'm assuming he's in a he should kill half of these guys. He should kill a good portion of these people. Okay. I'm I'm not saying maybe Bucky, but I'm saying Sam, he's dead. Alright. His little bird buddy, dead. Okay. Scott Lang, the Langs, the bloodline's dead if she's going in there too. Okay. Hopefully she's not gonna run into that, but if she is, she's dead as well, okay? You're not gonna tell me Red Guardian's gonna put up a fight against that man. No, there's no way. He's dead, okay? Shuri, dead, probably. Maybe, maybe put up a good fight. Probably gonna die. Mystique, dead. Uh Magneto. He's crunching him. He's crunching him. Okay? It's over. Half these people gotta die, right? Like a good good portion. Like who can survive? The thing, he gets to die, right? Like that he's he's dead. Human torch, he's dead.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Everybody that's human is dead.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

A good chunk of these people are dead on this side.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

I think the only ones that I would really be excited to see fight, though, is Bob and Thor. That's about it.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Okay, well, Bob is gonna obviously be the secret weapon. I feel. Like he could probably put a cap on him, but then I feel like Doom is gonna figure out a way out of that too.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

If the Avengers I don't know, if the Yeah, no, I guess if the Avengers and the X-Men don't work out, they can just send in the Fantastic Four in, right? And like have them duke it out again.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Well, it'll be the original matchup, right? And they should be able to they should be able to deal, you know, some damage, but I'm assuming if it's gonna take the X-Men and the Avengers, I'm assuming a good chunk of the Fantastic Four team is not equipped to to handle the fight. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Not by themselves, but together. They get it done, bro. That's the point.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

No, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is, okay, if he mows down Thor, there's no way like he was able to stop an axe from Thor. There's no way the thing has any chance against Doom. There's no way the human torch has any chance against Doom. Maybe Sue, maybe Pedro, but we saw in his movie if he stretches too far, he just basically he's probably gonna snap. I don't know. Gotta figure that out still. Nobody in this room in my head should survive.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Right. Just clear the board. Clear the fucking board. I mean, this is a weird really rag time ragtag team here when you think about it. Like, not just the X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

To put him up against Doom? I would think so. Like, this isn't just like random, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Right. You get Steve, Sam, Bucky, Elena, um, John, fucking Red Guardian. Like, you get a good chunk of these people. And after that, these they don't look like they're ready for a fight. That's the way I feel.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Like, I mean, you can kind of be like, okay, when Thanos came down, oh, you know, how did you know Captain America was able to hold his own against him with four infinity stones or whatever, blah, blah. Like, we can understand those little ones because you know, Thanos has to give a shit to want to kill you or whatever, but like Doom seems like he's gonna want to like decimate everything. Like, this is kind of like what Ultron was in the what if series and stuff like that. You know what I mean? Like, this is he's gonna want everything done. So I I don't know. I don't know. From from from my standpoint though, I'm not super excited for this movie. I kind of feel like I was hoping that this was gonna bring a little bit more. Um, I know some people were like, uh, you know, what if he says Hell Hydra here? Well, there's no way, because I mean he wouldn't be able to have the the power to get the hammer, right? Like that would just what it is.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Well, apparently you don't need to be like good and all that stuff to be worthy, you just have to be worthy. So if you're bad and you're worthy, you're like that's that's that works, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

The hammer can't tell the difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

So we gotta ask the question okay, could it also be because Doom did not have enough build-up time for this Avengers movie?

SPEAKER_03 31:54

I don't who cares about build-up, bro. If they can do it in two movies, why not? Let them try.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

I understand, but okay, so this is where like the argument came in for me, where it's like, you know, the build-up with the whole DC EU stuff, right? And I was like, okay, the DCEU, everybody was saying that hey, we needed more time with these characters to get the Justice League together and blah blah blah blah, right? We said no, you could do it with less, right? But I feel like that was the beginning of you know, that was the beginning of the DCEU, you know what I mean? Like that was the start. Like you that you could start any way that you want, we're in the middle, so you don't necessarily have wiggle room to be like, okay, we're gonna shoot this, and if it doesn't work, we gotta pivot. You know what I mean? Like, what if Doom is not the character that's gonna bring people back to sit in the seats? And what if they doesn't you know, if the story doesn't make sense for a lot of people for them to sit in the seats? Because in my head, off the trailer, Doom going up against these people, what it like it just seems like he'll just flick his wrist and just push half these guys away and just be like, okay, I'm I'm still going about my way.

SPEAKER_03 33:18

I mean, you know, I don't agree with the whole build-up stuff, bro. That's kind of how that's kind of how things go, you know what I mean? You could read several different comic books and a character, a bad guy not show up, you know what I mean, until the very end. It happens.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

But there's an out underlying thing, right? Thanos, he was only a payoff because there was, I mean, he wasn't the front and center, but there was an underlying threat throughout the series. Right? And here there hasn't been an underlying threat. It's just he's just kind of popped up.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

So maybe you don't need him, you don't need all that.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Well, maybe you're on the side with John Campio over here because he's here to defend the whole doomsday not having enough time for build-up here.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Hey, the single greatest villain in cinematic history is Darth Vader. You did not need three movies building up Darth Vader before you made Star Wars a New Hope. It's gotta have Vader. Hans Gruber is one of the greatest villains in cinematic history. Played by the late great Alan Rickman. Hans Gruber is one of the greatest villains in cinematic history. You did not need two or three movies building up Hans Gruber before bringing him in and making him one of the all-time greatest cinematic villains. You did not need buildup for it. I mean, just about any movie with a great villain, of which there have been many. You never needed buildup. If you need buildup, then you don't know how to write a good movie. If you can't write a great compelling villain without having two or three movies of buildup, then you aren't you don't deserve to be a screenwriter.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So, I mean again, he's he's naming movies, but he's naming movies that basically came out and started swinging since the very beginning. Okay. And where I can agree, Darth Vader, Hans Gruber, yeah, I can agree. Doomsday, Doom, all that stuff, there's nothing saying that there's anything threatening about this character to a general audience perspective. Like, okay, if you read some comics or you re seen Doom before, you can kind of get a little bit of grasp that he is a badass or whatever. If the actor does him justice, if RDJ does him really good, he's in he can become a classic. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is from a story perspective, this kind of seems from left field, right? And how can you how do you how do you connect the dots and justify it in a what two-hour movie possibly? If if that, if they're generous with us, a two-hour movie? How are you gonna justify it in a two-hour movie that Doom's here to basically kill everybody or basically destroy the whole planet when you know, like I said, this ain't the beginning of Marvel. The beginning of Marvel happened with Thanos, and we had an underlining threat that whole time. They they even understood the assignment because they tried it again. Unfortunately, those first plants failed, and they had a pivot. But here we are at the pivot point, and this is not I don't think this is the same thing as a Darth Vader or Hans Gruber and all that stuff. This is complete this is a completely apples to oranges kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

So wait, but how if like if the beginning and all that stuff, this movie sets him up to be the big bad, like he's supposed to. I mean, what stopping stopping Thor's hammer with his fingers it wasn't wasn't cool enough.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Okay, I'm gonna be honest. As somebody who does not read the comic books, okay, and I'm only going based off endgame, all the infinity war, basically what we got with Marvel. Okay, if Stormbreaker is the ultimate fucking thing where he could basically mow down Thanos with five infinity stones, it's supposed to be way stronger, in my opinion, than what Doom can do. And yeah, he can get the runes and he could become stronger later on or whatever, blah blah blah. But like I said, we don't know that within the MCU. All we have information for is what Thor did with the Thanos and blah blah blah blah, and then you know what we basically got within phase four and whatnot, and blah blah blah blah. Okay now you expect me to believe that this guy who we've not seen at all can easily one stop the stormbreaker that we saw that was basically the ultimate god killer.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Yeah, because Dr. Doom has like magic basically.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

And I understand that, but uh from a general audience perspective perspective, right? Like if I'm confused and I'm trying to keep track with all this stuff, if I get a little bit confused, what do you think everybody else is gonna think? Right? So I'm like, in my head, you're right, you don't need movies to build you up, but those movies were made in the beginning, right? Those movies had tense intense stories from the beginning that led and basically paved the way for the the the the classics that we basically got. Doom has not been, you know, Thanos is even a classic at this point, but there was buildup for that guy. Doom has not had that buildup. We have not gotten to that point, we haven't even mentioned him, uh, besides maybe Fantastic Four. And that was only by name. Listen, but that was only by name.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah, but like what build-up are we talking about that Thanos got? We only got him in post-credit scenes. We just knew he was coming. Like, that's about it. Pause. But like you just know that he was on his way, that's why. And then he showed up for two movies and Josh Bolin did that.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

No, he was in Guardians of the Galaxy. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah, but he okay, for fucking sitting there in his high-ass chair, he didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

But he he basically like it was a taste of what was happening. So that underlying thing was basically helping us understand that in the background he's stronger than all these people, and he's powering up, and eventually we're gonna get to that point. Saying that that's again like to do a king as well.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

Yeah, but wouldn't that mean like every bad guy needs buildup? You know what I mean? Like, if that's the case, like do we need to see all these characters have let me ask you build up do you think the prequels are necessary in Star Wars? If you're looking for for a deeper stuff, no. You can watch the trilogy. You can watch the truth. I was gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Do you think that we needed the prequels? No, right? No. Did you want lore? Did you want to know where Darth Vader came from? Right? You wanted all the little aspects and everything, you know. You could leave it to imagination, but you would want answers eventually on where he came from, right? So, in a in a sense, they were gonna happen regardless because people are gonna want those things. Same thing with Thanos, people were gonna want those things eventually. You plant the seeds, people are gonna look into them, we're gonna know who they are. Doom has not had that time to sit and fester and basically show us that hey, he is gonna be some kind of uh big bad when it comes when it comes down time to it. And then eventually, yeah, if you want to start with him, and then yeah, if the movies are smash hit, and then we build off of that, but it's a weird situation, like I said, because it's a complete, completely different situation. Marvel is in the middle of their cinematic universe, they're not in the beginning, they're not at the end, apparently, they're right in the middle. And if after seeing multiple, you know, trip-ups and getting back up and everything like that, at this point there's no room for failure. I think that you know, if you were gonna do something like this, it had to be a home run, and as of right now, it does not feel like that home run that Marvel desperately needs.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

I just I don't agree, bro.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Fantastic Four did not do good.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Okay, it did just I mean well enough for a sequel. Okay, Superman wasn't that good either. So that's the thing. They they they do just enough to make a sequel.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Now you're saying okay, they were both shit movies. Josh, we gotta do it. I don't care about Superman. I can sympathize for you having to go against that just a little bit here. But we gotta be real, right? If Fantastic Four lost out to Superman, alright, Marvel is, in my opinion, struggling. Okay? You're not gonna tell me a movie like Fantastic Four, which as good as it was, you can admit there were some flaws there as well. I thought it was great. But you cannot you cannot tell me that Superman was able to surpass this movie and that Marvel's just been hitting nothing but on the money thing, on on the money like swings, especially when both of us can even say that that that movie could have possibly benefited from Doom being in there to help build up Doomsday.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

We've talked about I would have I would have agreed. I would agree, yes. I do think Doom should have showed up there. I like I don't I think a post credit scene doesn't help anything like that. All we know is that he probably kidnapped the kid, and then that's it. That's where it's leading us to. But I don't I don't think we need that much build up. I don't know. I don't think we needed all that.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Okay, all right, okay, especially in We don't need all that much buildup, but we should have had at least, like I said, we one movie to basically kind of show us that he's coming up, not a post-credit scene, not a drop a name drop. And even then, the post-credit scene could have been anybody.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

We know it was Doom, bro. Come on, bro. We know it was Doom. Come on. You don't gotta do the like you don't gotta sprinkle it. No. No. But like that's the thing. They also spent way too much time after John of the Majors covering up Kang and then plastering Doom's stuff on there. So I agree, Marvel has its own problems. But I also think we don't need that much buildup for Doom. We know. If you know anything about anything, you know Dr. Doom. You know who he is. You know what he's capable of.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Let me ask you something. Let me ask you something. You're a general audience member, okay? The only knowledge that you have of Doom was from 2004 and 2016. 2015. Do I know enough to know who this guy is when he walks on Doomsday? When he walks out on Doomsday.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

I would say yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Without comic book knowledge. You watch Fant Forstic, right? You remember?

SPEAKER_03 45:29

You watch two. You watch two. Okay, in the first Dr. The first Fantastic Four, that Dr. Doom was hidden. That was that was great. What they didn't give you much from the Lat Varia and all that stuff. Sure. That's more comic heavy. But you understand that he's best friends with Reed. He had a thing for Sue. He becomes evil once he gets his powers, whatever. So I would say that's pretty that's pretty close. See, I think you get pretty close there.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

And before we move it on, so we can start wrapping this up. I'm just gonna say this. Okay. You have that information, right? The little things from Doom. But now we get RDJ's face smacked on there.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

It's still Dr. Doom. That's the thing. We like if they would have saved that reveal. It's confusing!

SPEAKER_01 46:19

You gotta admit it, it's confusing. It's gonna confuse a lot of people. It's gonna confuse a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Obviously, and they're gonna have to explain that kind of stuff. But they you know what Dr. Doom is, or whatever. Does it really matter who's behind the mask? If they would have saved that reveal, I'm sure that would have saved their ass a little bit more. But we know why they did that. We know the nostalgia baiting, whatever. That's a whole nother thing. But like you picture Doctor Doom, all you picture is the mask and all that stuff. You don't care about who's underneath it, really. He doesn't even sound like RDJ. That's the crazy part.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

You do care who's underneath. Oh, well, I mean, unless they're gonna unless they're literally gonna keep the mask on his face the whole movie, fine. But I'm pretty sure a studio is still a studio and they're not gonna help themselves. They're paying top dollar for that face. They're gonna want to show the face. If not, if not in present-day flashbacks.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Well, yeah, they're gonna explain why this version of Doom exists and why he wears Tony's face or whatever. They're gonna have to explain that. But you know Dr. Doom regardless. You know that once you strip away whatever they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

It's Doom explain that in a cameo fest movie that is two hours. So you telling me that this movie What's a cameo fest movie?

SPEAKER_03 47:45

What's it uh hold on? Are we it's this is an Avengers movie. Deadpool. We okay, that's not what this is, though. This is an Avengers movie. These are all people in that are important to the film. It's all these people. You tell me who these people are. You tell me who these are the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Loki in the middle. Like, if you were watching, you know who these people are. The only ones getting into the mix of all this are the X-Men. And even then, you know who they are. You know that's Scott Summers, you know that's Beast, you know that's Magneto, you know that's Charles, you know that's Nightcrawler, Mystique, Gambit.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

I feel like we were having a good, unbiased conversation in the beginning, but I feel like you're leaning to I feel like the after the trailer, the smashing the toys together really got you. I I'm down for smashing the toys together, but we gotta be honest here. There's nothing in this movie that screams a cohesive movie. There's nothing in this movie that screams that hey, we don't need any kind of buildup. I think this movie would have benefited a hundred percent from what you're saying, possibly in the Fantastic Four movie leading up to something like this. You know, he couldn't have been the main character or the main villain or whatever, but he could have been slowly plotting in the background that would have really led to something monumental here in Doomsday. We don't know anything about him. With Thanos, we knew at least that he wanted to wipe half the universe, and there was a reason behind it.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

You learned that in Infinity War. That's not fair.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Again, you could possibly you could possibly put this up with the whole hype train and everything that was leading up to Infinity War and all that stuff, but everybody basically knew about the snap because the it was such a big thing. There was so much build-up to Thanos and given enough time for people to understand and nourish that and you know really build it up that even the casuals knew that eventually this was gonna happen. That was everybody knew that shit because it was in the comic books. I even knew that shit. I wasn't even into the movies that deep before. I was just casually watching them, and I knew that because of the little things and how long it took for it to build up. At this point, you have no time, zero time. There's nothing, there's nothing that points to this should have even happened, this group should have even exist. I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

But we know that, but we also understand that something's coming, doom, and these guys all have to stop it. That's the thing. You're you said cameo fest. That's what I'm trying to understand. What about these what about these that they're not even here? They're not in this picture. Who are you talking about? If these are all key players and these are the Avengers we're working with, the they're not cameo fest. That's like saying Black Widow's a cameo a cameo.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

I'm saying, I'm saying that what do you call it? That Marvel basically is kind of doing that in a way, because of Deadpool and Wolverine. That was a cameo fest, and I'm I mean I could I can I could prove it. Steve Rogers is right here. We have not seen him for a whole two phases. Gambit's right here. We only seen him in a movie before. Okay. Nightcrawlers here, Ant-Man Holy. I mean, sure, throw him in the mix. Umbaku. What what is he even why? I mean, I understand that you put the sidekicks on there, but why, you know what I'm saying? I'm I'm actually surprised we didn't get Aquafina right here next to Shang-Chi. I feel like at one point she was standing right here and they just kind of edited her out.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

No. Okay, but uh okay, but that's the thing. We haven't seen them, so there's a reason why they're here that explains why they're in the film. We didn't know those cameos were happening in Deadpool and Wolverine until you seen them. We didn't know we were gonna get Chris Evans, Johnny Storm, until we seen him. That's a cameo. He was insignificant. He these guys clearly play a role in the story. Like the Brusso brothers said that they're gonna play on Steve and you know Tony's relationship or whatever. So this is gonna play a part.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

That's not a cameo in a two-hour movie. Every single one of these people are going to have a storyline. You think we're gonna fulfill every single storyline in this movie with all these people on here? Are you are you are you telling me that half these motherfuckers are not gonna die?

SPEAKER_03 52:36

I don't think we're gonna. I mean, I don't know. I don't think half. That's the point.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

They they are they're on the poster because they don't have anybody to show you, so they're gonna show you these people in hopes that you buy ticket. Hey lord. Hey, Chang Chi, Channy Tatum's gonna be there. Oh my god, get it. Come look. Hey, yeah, but that's what we're talking about. These all these motherfuckers are not gonna walk out of here. Half these motherfuckers are just gonna be background characters.

SPEAKER_03 53:02

Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure Charles and Magneto, they're gonna go out in a blaze of glory. I'm sure the X-Men universe is gonna fucking implode on itself because of the whatever Doom is doing to the or the incursions are doing, whatever fucking thing they're making up. But you're saying cameo fest.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

If they fulfill the madness was also a cameo fest, too.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

If they fulfill their duty in the film, whether they bite the dust or not, they are still part of the film. That's the difference. That's the thing. I cameo versus being integral part of the story. That's the two different things. Steve Evans, uh human torch, cameo. Toby Maguire in No Way Home, integral part of the story. That's not a cameo.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Glorified cameo.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

No, that's not how that works. That's not what that reads.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Without Toby Maguire, Spider-Man, it would have possibly went down the same. You you don't need to be able to do that. Yeah, but they brought they but they chose to bring them in. So you just put them in there for butts and seats. You didn't need those two.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Nostalgia baiting is part of that, but they're still integral part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Okay, I feel like we I feel like we're on the same page, but you're trying to try to defend this movie, and I understand the whole defense, but I feel this exactly what you're saying is this. It is this.

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Okay, no, because you can nostalgia bait and still make these characters part of the integral part of the story. If they were to be like, oh, hi bye, and then that's it, that's cameo. Beast at the end of the marvels, that's a cameo. Because he doesn't do anything, he just shows up to be like, oh, she ended up here. Hi, bye. You remember me? Hi bye, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

So you're telling me we never had movies where the character is on the poster and they've only been on there for like two minutes of screen time. Hi bye. Does that make them a main character still?

SPEAKER_03 55:08

What? Okay. If we're talking side character, someone that leaves at the the hero's side because the hero is doing great big things.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

I just gave you an answer. I just gave you an answer. I need an answer back. If you have characters and they've had characters before where they're on the poster and they're only in the movie for about two minutes, the Odyssey is probably a good example because that's I feel like there's probably a couple characters in there that are only having like a couple minutes of screen time according to uh certain sources and whatnot. But they're still on the poster, they're still technically main characters. I'm not saying they're cameos because we don't know them like that. But but like I said, Marvel's in this unique position where they are they're basically able to pull from different parts and dress it up in a different way, but it's still the same thing. You know what I mean? It's still the same thing, and the only the only reason why it makes it that cameo fest is because these characters, we don't know them. We know them by name, we know that who they are or whatever, and we know that they're gonna be in the movie, and then we know that they're gonna fight. But what is this movie about? What are we doing here at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_03 56:22

Yes, okay, now we can we can get to that because we don't know anything, we don't know Doom's motivation, we just know he's stopping incursions. What the fuck is an incursion? We only heard that what like once or twice throughout the whole multiverse stuff that they were talking about. How are we getting a multiverse movie or whatever? But the two people that can multiverse hop aren't here, Wanda and uh uh the um uh Mike Chavez. Where the fuck are they at?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Like how like I'm hearing is that this movie could benefit from maybe a movie, a movie to basically explain a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Yeah, but they're choosing to use a lot of the build-up that they had, and I'm sure Loki is gonna explain that shit too. Like the movie is gonna have to explain itself for existing the way it is. Hey man, we we're not gonna act like exposition dumps aren't Marvel's whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Okay, that's that's that is that's fair, right? That is fair. So, I mean, I guess to basically wrap it up, I mean, I'm ex I'm excited to see what happens in this film, but I'm not excited for this film. I do think that you know this might be another L at this moment for Marvel. I'm gonna be standing there waiting to be holding the L sign because it doesn't seem like we know what's happening in this movie, and it doesn't seem like Marvel knows it either. We know that we need the the characters, we know that we need the big team up, but what is the story that we're telling that uh requires everybody together to come together? I I d we we don't have that answer. I think a lot of people are kind of scratching their heads at that at that point too. Um so maybe Doom himself does not need a build-up because he is Doom and he can become a legendary character in and himself in one movie. Yes, he can. But in a multiverse and in a MCU movie where the universe is vast and we have so many movies and all that stuff. Okay at this moment in time, I do believe for story's sake, not for Doom the Villain. I know I feel like that's where a lot of this thing is getting twisted. For Doom the villain, he possibly does not need a whole movie to basically build him up or whatever because you can make a big bat out of nothing, sure. But I do think story-wise, we could use a possible lead up movie to this okay, to this whatever they're whatever they're doing with this iteration, probably could have used some built up. There you go. There you go. That's right, yeah. That's what I like.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

The movie is gonna have to explain itself and Loki play a little bit of catch up because Marvel was also playing catch-up post-kang. So that's kind of where we're at. So and like I'm excited to see where it's going. But yeah, boy, that is a lot of hurdles.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

That is a lot, it is a lot of hurdles that they have to do. So, hype level from one to ten, ten being the best, one being the worst, five being the middle on three, Josh, one, two, three, seven, six. I'm thinking about five, five point five.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

I'm a little bit more than average. I'm still kind of in it.

SPEAKER_01 59:39

Okay. One foot in, one foot out. Anything could basically push me out the door, and anything could push me in. I was hoping this trailer did it for me. Unfortunately, it's not. Let us know what you guys think though. Check out the trailer on YouTube. Um, hopefully it does something for you and helps you love this movie better. Okay, if you had any skepticism, hopefully this made you want to go watch it. As always, we don't want to discourage watching movies, but we do want to ask the big questions like what the hell is actually happening here. But hopefully you guys get pre-sale tickets if you guys are excited for this film. Um, they are on sale right now. We're not sponsored, but you know, obviously, Marvel, if you always want to do something nice, go ahead and do it. Um then we'll totally know what's happening in your movie, 100%. Uh, with that being said, though, any topics we should be talking about, any movies you want us to review, TV shows, Josh, let them know where they can do all that and talk to us and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

Twitter, TikTok, Instagram at filmbross podcast. Post the episodes there. We can hit some there for news and movies who wants to cover, but it's probably gonna source the game. You just like a Patreon, you subscribe if you have the show, go to really appreciate it. Let's do it to any we're gonna get your podcast at filmbus podcast, but if I use the music podcast again, where we're gonna podcast. Part of the conversation, twitch at filmbus podcasts or subscribe to our YouTube at FilmBros Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

And with that being said, we'll talk to you guys on the next one.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

Talk to you guys later.