Ep 527 Spider-Man Brand New Day (2026) Spoiler Review

In this episode the FilmBros discuss Spider-Man Brand New Day the latest installment in the MCU

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What up everybody? I'm your host, JP, and this is my co-host Josh. Hey everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Film Bros Podcast. Alright, Josh, so today we're gonna be reviewing a movie. A movie that I know that you're excited about, I know that you're passionate about, I know that you're um I don't how do I how do I say this? How do I say this? How do I say this? You have a certain stan culture approach when it comes down to this character, okay? Um I feel like if you could you would jump in a spidey suit and be swinging around yourself. 100% Um But you know, we're not here to talk about you being in a suit. We're here to talk about the actual main character. Josh, we need to talk about this movie, the implications it may have in the future, what it means for what's gonna happen today, at least in this moment. Um yeah, Josh, go ahead and let him know what we're gonna be reviewing today, and let's go ahead and start diving into this review.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

We're reviewing Spider-Man brand new day of 2026.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

I can't believe our first day MIT! MJ. Come on, pretend like you're not the happiest you've ever been in your entire life. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Hi, my name is Peter Parker. You don't remember me, but we used to know each other. Something bad was gonna happen, and the only way to stop it was to make everyone forget about me. Because I'm not just Peter Parker. I'm Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yes, Spider-Man, brand new day. Twit, twit, twit, twip, twip, twip, twit. Twip. Do you have a quip? Do you have a quip to start off?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I don't know. I'd be a terrible Spider-Man. I'd be I'd be so silent.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

I'm I was I'd they'll be like, uh-huh, Spider-Man, you'll never catch me, and then you're just gonna be like, Yes, I will. I will catch you. I would I will.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

I'm gonna throw a car at him. No joke, no nothing, just a straight car.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

It's just like dang Spidey when you get so mad. It's crazy. Um, but yeah, Spider-Man brand new day is certainly a brand new day for Spidey fans, I would have to say. I it is a new day for you guys because as we remember, okay, I know I remember a time where we could be like a few years ago, we could be like, oh, you know, Toby McGuire's Spider-Man came out just a few years ago, right? We could be like, oh, Andrew Garfield Spider-Man just came out a few years ago. Tom Holland has technically been our Spider-Man for I believe now longer than well, technically not longer because they came back for No Way Home, but you know, they've had he's had more movies technically. He's been around longer, right? He's been around for like close to 10 years already, right? I would say so. I would say it's coming around that time. Uh how long has Civil War been out? Since 2016 or something like that, right? Yeah. Yeah, this year, ten years. So like 10 years, like 10 years. Ten years is a long time. Ten years straight, right? Um, you know, a couple more movies in them. At least a trilogy? Uh is he passing the baton? That's you know, that's those are valid questions. I mean, do we think at least the trilogy is in here?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

I think so. We won't we probably won't see another Spider-Man movie for like a year or two. Just because I think Zendaya and Tom are gonna take a fat hiatus together, but other than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Zendaya is gonna have a baby. Maybe a Holland baby. That'd be cool. Um, next generation Spider-Man. It is what it is. Uh Nepo Spider. The Nepo Spider would be cool. Um, but yeah, Spider-Man Brand New Day has been crushing everything since the moment it's came out, right? Then steamrolling everybody. The movies that decided to come out a couple weeks before it get out of its way because you're not you're not touching it where we thought the Odyssey would at least compete. It's not competing anymore. It's been blown out the water. It's actually giving away IMAX screenings to Spider-Man Brand New Day starting August 7th. At the time of recording, that's a couple days uh from today. So that's gonna be really fun for people to go back and re-watch this movie in IMAX if they so choose to, right? Um, yeah, like I said, crush another crush a uh a big, big milestone over the weekend. Um, not only did it I know this is not a big milestone, but this is you know, people are kind of leveling it up and they're starting at like, okay, well, it just made the entirety of its DCU run on the first weekend, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:09

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

That's this is completely different. It's completely different. Valid. Next thing would be it wound up beating, at least domestically, the numbers that Endgame put up when it wound up basically breaking records for its opening debut here in, like I said, domestically, not in international waters or anything. But at the time of recording, Spider-Man Brand New Day from Tuesday's numbers has officially swung to over a billion dollars. It's sitting at over 1.1 billion at the time of recording. Um, so Spider-Man Brand New Day is what I believe, and I don't know why it's not making a lot more noise, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a two billion dollar movie, like at this point. Like, I'm not sure, maybe a 1.5 it'll stop. But I'm I'm really hoping that this might be a $2 billion movie, especially with the rewatchability. IMAX is coming out pretty soon. So I don't know. It's a long stretch, but I do believe that this movie has it in it, especially with the opening numbers exceeding what was supposed to be at first, where they were like, oh, it's only supposed to make like a right above 900 million, then they were like, oh, they're overshooting at like 930, like 930 million, and sure enough, they wound up beating the odds. They I think they clocked in like around 920 uh million or whatever. Um so I mean they didn't make their money all the way where they were betting, but they didn't just a little shy, you know what I mean? You can't really you can't really be upset when, like I said, this movie has already made the entirety of the DCU in one weekend.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Right. Crazy shit.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

It is what it is. But Josh, what do you think about Spider-Man coming out uh swinging and doing big numbers, especially seeing what not only the MCU, but like superhero movies in general have been kind of bringing in numbers-wise.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

I mean, I I say what you want, bro, but Spider-Man got motion. He just has motion. I don't know what it is. Him and Batman, for some reason, they will always have motion. It's weird. So like these are anomalies in the whole like oh, superhero fatigue and all that stuff. Like that I feel like these things are in a league of their own because it's not it as much as the movie has to have quality I think even Spider-Man the Amazing Spider-Man 2 fucking outdid uh did perform pretty well before everyone decided to like decided it was a shit movie, but like Spider-Man just has motion, it's weird.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Well, technically Spider-Man 2 didn't really make too much money, or at least the amazing Spider-Man 2. But that was all because I was um I don't know what that was. That was that a botch script, was that the whole behind the scenes thing? Was that a whole like trying to go for like a Sinister Six thing? Was that taking Spider-Man away and changing him up significantly in the first one and then changing him again in the sequel? I don't know. Those are that's something before our podcast time, I guess you would you would say. But for the most part, at least with this Spider-Man, you know, it it's insane that he was actually able to bring all three of them together in his previous movie. That movie was crushing numbers and breaking uh box office records in and itself, too. So uh ever since Spider-Man 3, Spider-Man has been on a roll. This is two for two, right? Um, I mean, what it would technically two for four. That it is what it is. I mean, the first two weren't bad, but I know some people have their gripes with uh far from home. And yeah. This is a whole different story for a different day, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not gonna talk about that. Right, right, right. So Spider-Man brand new day, Josh. Clocking in Rotten Tomato Score or the Tomato Meter. Uh, it's certified fresh at a 90% with a popcorn meter at a 98%. What are these critics smoking, bro? 10% say, hey, this is not a perfect movie. Where like the 98% of audiences are just kind of like gargling spiders' balls right now.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I don't even know if that's true, man. I I'm probably with the 98% that think it's really good. I got it. 90% from critics is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I really, I really enjoy that whole 98% thing. I think it's good for you know superhero movies in general and what we're trying to do with the trying to keep them alive and whatnot. But we gotta be realistic. The 90% probably got you know, they probably got their head on their shoulders, and they're not just over there, like I said, seeing something flashy and just completely, oh yeah, this is this is it. This is the one. And I like granted, this movie, you know, we're gonna obviously talk about it. This one, comparatively speaking, to the his other entries within the MCU. I I mean, it took some build-up, right? It took some build-up to get here. Um, obviously, like I said, one uh was it homecoming, it was good, but a lot of people were like, it could be better, Spider-Boy Jr., blah blah blah blah blah, right? And he's not Spider-Man, see Spider-Boy Jr., whatever. Um, and then we wound up getting to Far From Home. That was the same thing. Oh, he's Tony, whatever, after Endgame, he's so sad, whatever, blah, blah, blah. People did weren't really rocking with him. And then, you know, there was a whole thing with like, oh, is Spider-Man even gonna be in the MCU? Because Sony's taking the rights away, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then obviously, Homecoming came around, right? And that one really just made a big splash. Now, obviously, I know some people were talking about the rewatchability. I don't know if you rewatched that movie recently, but I mean, it's still a great movie, but you know, it is obviously a product of the COVID time, and that's unfortunate. Uh, to to assault your eyeballs multiple times with that film, in my opinion. And then now here we are. Spider-Man brand new day. Long time coming, Josh. Long time coming. We're actually at a point where it seems like a good majority of the fan base is rocking with this Spider-Man now. They they say, hey, you know what, Tom Holland actually got the juice, right? Um, I know a lot of people were like, you know, we're gonna probably get to that as well, but you know, the whole villain situation with him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, but yeah, Josh, long time coming. Are we are we excited to jump into this review now and get cracking on Spider-Man brand new day?

SPEAKER_02 11:42

100%.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Alright, so Destin Daniel Creton is the director. He did Wonderman season one. He directed a few episodes of that. He also was a director of Shang-Chi. Supposed to be the director for Shang-Chi, too, but it doesn't sound like that's happening anytime soon. That's besides the point. We're moving on from that. So Destin Daniel Creton is kind of like being praised right now. I see some people out there, you know, kind of tagging John Watts and being like, fuck you. It's like, well, what why would you guys do stuff like that, man? Like, why are we doing things like that? But Josh, let's go ahead and start breaking down this film because we have a lot to discuss towards the back end, um, a lot of things in the future, a lot of things happening in the moment. So we're gonna have a lot to dig into. Josh to talk about what happens in the film. Spoilers up ahead. So if you guys haven't seen Spider-Man Brand New Day, you are warned. Go swing to your nearest theater and go watch Spider-Man Brand New Day. Or if you're waiting for IMAX, I'm thinking at the time of or at least at the time you're listening to this, it should be out by now. Go watch it. We suggest you go in there, especially after No Way Home, being like the most spoilery movie I've ever watched in my life. Like, I feel like I knew everything that was gonna happen with that movie. Go into this movie fresh. I think Spider-Man deserves it, especially after, like I said, all that leakage thing that happened with his last movie. So you have been warned. Last warning, spoiler, spoiler, Josh. Let's talk about the movie. Alright.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Brand New Day is about Peter Parker trying to live his life forgotten while and deciding to simply fall back onto his spider persona simply because he doesn't want to get anyone in danger from the last from the wish he made in uh No Way Home. Uh he r he we run into people we know, like the Hulk and the Punisher. Those aren't spoilers, that they're in those trails and stuff. He goes while while remaining to be Spider-Man, not giving his body a break, he s discovers his genetics are kind of teetering to the spider side, which causes his problems, which is he decides to go see the Hulk, I mean Bruce Banner about on some help to not only suppress that stuff, but look for a way to stop the new enemy that can control people telepathically. Um a lot of speculation on who that would have been, but we're gonna get into that in a little bit. The movie plays out, the ending happens, we get a we get a cool couple fight scenes, and the movie kind of resolves itself by the end of it. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

The movie kind of resolves itself. Oh my god. The wording that you use there is kind of it's gonna have implications towards the end of this review because you pick those words. You redact them. Can't redact them from the record. But yes, are we done with the with the recap so far? Right. Okay, alright. So, like I said, we are just gonna crack this egg open. Um, the rumors are true. Steve Lacey did not lie. Gene Gray is in the movie. Um, our first technically mutant, even though we didn't hear mutant. I don't know if that's a Marvel thing, still kind of being shy with the whole mutant naming, or is that a like a Sony thing where like you we're not gonna put mutants in a Sony movie first, you know what I mean? Um still technically in the MCU. I don't know. I don't know. Uh what do we think? What would what do you think? What do you think it is?

SPEAKER_02 15:16

I think it's uh I think it's probably like a Sony thing. You know what I mean? Like they they're like we can use them, but we also don't want to drop the M the M word yet because then you have to dive deeper into like where the fuck they came from, what a mutant is, whatever. It's easier right now to sprinkle them in and then find out what makes them tick later.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Okay, okay. So alright. That see, that sounds like such a calmer way than what I was thinking. I was thinking so doom and gloom, and you were you came out with like a nice peaceful side. We're probably gonna need that in this in this review a lot more, okay? So just keep up that energy for me. Um, but yes, so G Gray is in this film, and you know, ultimately, is she the villain? Yes, but then there's somebody else that's the villain. The ball kind of gets passed around a couple times, I guess I have to say. Um, but we will dive into all that and we will talk about it. So obviously, characters first, Josh Tom Holland returns as Peter Parker. Obviously, we know that Zendaya returns as MJ, John Berthall as Frank Castle, Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner, aka the Hulk. Now we're getting, you know, the savage Hulk back, which you know it's probably gonna be much needed for later on. Ned Leeds as uh or Jacob Batalon as Ned Lead, Sadie Sink as Gene Gray, which I guess is no longer spoilers because they literally name drop her on uh IMBD as well. So Florence Pugh uh shows up as Yelena, brief moments, um, and yeah, we have Lisa Colon Zayez as Detective Gene the Wolf, and yeah, we're we're basically there. That's everybody. We get a little cameo from Keith David, he's just a little narrator, it's pretty pretty nice. Um, but Josh, what do we think about the characters? What do we think about Tom Holland returning as Spider-Man again, especially um a few years later after we saw him in No Way Home? Um, what do we think about his performance and everybody else's?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I think everybody did great. Everybody was amazing. I mean, this is what I was looking forward to the whole whole time I was watching the John Watts films. I was right when I said that he just needs better direction and better storytelling for his for everything to you know come together. So I think Tom Holland does great. I think I really love his character arc, everything. Um I loved John Bertho's Punisher in this one. I think I I always have a soft spot for him. I don't know what it is. I've liked him since Daredevil season two, all in his own show. Back to when we've seen him a little bit in Born Again. His special, I know you weren't a big fan of it, but I liked his special. And now here, a PG 13 Punisher. Who would have thought you know I could get behind such a thing?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Sorry, not being a fan of a ragdolling punisher on a crate is is That is like one minute out of a whole other thing, bro.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Come on now.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Felt like an eternity.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

You see what I'm saying? I never did my boy like this at Netflix.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

I'm just saying right. But um, I think everybody did great, bro. Okay. Um Tom Holland Chef's kiss, dude. If I thought he was doing great in the Odyssey, this portrayal of Peter Parker, and the way he acted in this movie, every single every single movie he's made before, even including the No Way or the Way Home trilogy, whatever the hell you guys would call it, uh homecoming trilogy, whatever. This is the best acting I've seen this guy do ever. Like, even in the Odyssey, I thought he did really well as well, but I was just like, dude, like where was this acting in the Odyssey? Like, it didn't seem like it didn't like I wish I wish we would have had that at that point, and like this at over there, like at this point, but he still did great in the Odyssey. I just think he did superb in this movie. Like, this is like the best acting I've seen to date. I don't I have not seen every single film that he's done, so maybe if there's somebody out there that's like, oh well, you haven't seen I don't know, Cherry. I I don't I I don't think a lot of people seen Cherry, but I'm just letting you know. This is probably the best acting I've seen this man do at like at all. And I it's in this in this film where I'm just like, okay, even the moments in like um I know in No Way Home they were trying to make it like a big heartbreaking moment when you know it was in the rain and everything like that. No, that was sad. I think that has to do with like a lot more of the mood and everything like that that they were trying to portrayal, but his acting in this movie, I really think is like top tier. I think he did a really great job. I can't give him enough flowers because I do really believe he put this movie on his back 100%. John Berthall, I love him. Uh same thing. I love them ever since we've seen him the first time. Uh, we do get in uh a good amount of awesh in this movie, so I guess we we're we're leveling up. We're leveling up. At least we can say, Marvel, stop being so fucking shy. Just put Daredevil and the gang on a movie already. Like it's it's time, like they've surpassed streaming. We've already sh redeemed them from that whole fiasco that we had with Ben Abs. Like, even though I enjoy the movie. I know some people are like, oh, it's so bad. I enjoyed it, it's fine. But you know, I think we moved on. They could be in the big screen again. We could see a Daredevil movie, we could see a John Berthall movie, uh, a Frank Castle, all that stuff, and we don't have to retread every single season his fucking trauma. Okay, it was nice to just have to touch on it for a second and then kind of move on, you know what I mean, in this film. Mark Ruffalo. It's Mark Ruffalo. I I mean I I like his acting for what it is, but I mean, as time goes on with his Hulk, I'm kind of just like over Mark Ruffalo's Hulk, I feel. But I do enjoy that we kind of get a return to form with his Hulk. So I really enjoyed that aspect and the way they kind of set that up. Um one thing in this movie is that sp uh they're really trying to gear up a lot of these heroes uh for what's coming in Doomsday. So I don't know if that kind of has something to do with like obviously the Hulk getting back into the Savage Hulk and you know becoming like more juiced up um by the end of the movie, or at least by the end of his little uh scenes that he's supposed to have. And obviously Tom Holland had a major power-up uh throughout this film as well. So that you know that's something in the Marvel side that we're probably gonna have to talk about in the world building aspects. I enjoyed Jacob Batal Bat but as Ned this movie. Didn't think that was gonna happen. I gotta say, it surprised me a little bit. I really enjoyed his. His his acting as well. I really enjoyed what he was doing. Zendaya, Zendaya, Zendaya, and I appreciate her being around. It's nice. It's cool. I understand that she's a draw. And I'm not gonna totally say that she's bad because I don't think she's bad in this movie. But there could be there. We need to stop treating MJ as the as the one that needs to kind of be like dark and edgy and then just kind of be like, no, I'm just kidding, or whatever. Like, if she's grown up, if she's in college, we gotta move on from that. I think they're kind of like if she's trying to give something for the movie, I feel like they're doing her a disservice by keep kind of undercutting her with that kind of stuff. So I have to say that there's a lot of people in this movie, to be honest. Like, I'm over here talking about the cast, and I'm just like, there is a lot of people in this movie. Sadie Sink. I don't think you touched up on Sadie Sink too much. Um, I really liked her in this movie. I don't know if I liked her character, but I liked her acting. Um, I know a lot of people, or at least what I was seeing, I haven't really seen Stranger Things, but I it makes me want to see it just so I can kind of compare. But like I seen there then be like, oh, it's basically Max again, and I'm just like, what does that mean? Like it's Max again.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Hmm. Nah, I mean I don't think it's anything like that. I I was not comparing her to any of her characters or any characters on Stranger Things. I think people just saw that she was the same person and tried to make that connection. I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I said you think they're reaching. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

I think they're I think they're reaching. I think they just couldn't maybe because the movie didn't give her a distinct look or whatever like that, but like not every redhead looks the same, you fucking weirdo.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Right, right. Well, I mean, in this case, obviously she would look the same. But I mean I I think you're right. I think maybe just because she didn't get the costume or anything like that, you know, obviously, like I said, she is supposed to be Gene Grey, so she didn't get the costume or anything like that. So it's kind of like, oh, you know, it basically she her get up could look the same as maybe she did in the show. I don't know. I I haven't seen, like I said, I haven't seen the show with her in it. I'm hoping it's good, but I I've seen a lot of people kind of dragging it in that way, so you know, there's that. It was nice to see Scorpion in the film as well. Scorpion. And one thing that was very much enjoyable, and it kind of sucks for some of these actors because I know they were really, you know, bragging about it, like the the guy who was playing Tombstone, Marvin Jones the third. Um, I know that uh Michael Mando was really psyched for being Scorpion, you know, the people the person that played uh Boomerang um in the beginning as well. One thing that I really enjoyed is that, you know, and somebody's listening to us, Josh, is that they did the whole montage thing. This is the second time they did it. This is something I've been asking for. Like, hey, every single superhero movie at this point should have some kind of montage of them beating their villains at one point or whatever, especially if there's like time in between movies. They obviously have to get their roster up, right? So now that we're actually doing that, and in Spider-Man it's actually happened, I think that's pretty fucking cool. I'm just like, you know, it kind of it kind of takes away because it's like, okay, we have three or four Spider-Man movies, and for the most part, none of them are the main villains. Like, no, none of his like actual bad guys are the main villains, so it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah. Yeah, you're a weird gripe with this whole thing, bro. Um, I don't know. I thought it was a good one.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yet again, in this fourth movie, his Spider-Man villains are not his friends.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

I like seeing the villains. I thought everybody, like I said, I think everybody did their part. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

I really love seeing other people's villains in this movie. It was nice, yes. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Because comics and stuff don't cross over, bro. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah, but I mean, can we at least get one of his villains in one of these movies? That'd be nice.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

We got several of his villains in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Technically, none of them are actually fighting him, though, and they're not his villains. The only one that's his villain is Scorpion, and technically that's not him fighting him either. Right, but he did fight him, and that is his villain, technically. You understand what I'm saying? You're just trying to twisty my words.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

That's what happened, bro. I there's no twisting it. You're twisty, you twisting. That's like making Shocker the big bad. Shocker, Scorpion, these motherfuckers are not the big bads, bro. They'll never be the big bads.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Okay, alright. Okay. If we're going street level with the movie, they would be big bads in a street level movie. You cannot tell me that Shocker wouldn't be a good villain for like a street level Spider-Man movie. You can't tell me Scorpion wouldn't be a good villain for like a street level Spider-Man movie. It could be him and the Vulture. You can kind of couple these guys up. I know they were jumping for like Sinister 6, but I was like, man, you could at least do maybe like Scorpion and Vulture team up or something. Like kind of like what they were setting up back in, I believe it was a homecoming pro-scurtis scene. Like that would have been a cool team up if we would have seen that in the sequel, like both of them trying to go after the game.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

He lives in the the Sony verse now. That's not the same.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. But that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's that's the whole point. But like I said, everybody did their thing. I think you're right. Everybody did their thing. But the one person, like I said, I'm gonna come back around and give him his flowers because I don't think I do this enough. Tom Holland knocked it out the park. I think he did a really good job. I know a lot of people were like really doubting his Spider-Man in the first like three movies and everything like that, but he I even I was kind of like, man, his acting has to get better. Like it there, there has to be like levels to this shit, right? And he really jumped up. I really I agree. I applaud his portrayal in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Destin Daniel Cryton made me care about this motherfucker. It's good.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Right. Right. Oh, yeah, that's true too, because you I believe you were the one of the people that had those issues with him in the first three movies. So actually giving him a good arc and actually get getting the acting out of them, I'm pretty sure really improved the watchability for you as well. Right. Josh, this is where we're gonna have to talk about some really deep stuff. But first things first, I think we just gotta talk about the cinematography and um the CGI. Both were amazing in this movie, okay? I really believe that it's not CGI that's bad, it's just the overworkload that they're putting on these people. Um, even though this there's probably a workload for this movie as well, it's just, you know, it quality over quantity. This movie just does everything right. From the camera work from Destinanium Crane did an amazing job uh with the angles, uh the way that he had the cameras hold frame multiple times for multiple scenes, and you were just able to sit there and soak it in, and then just the shots were beautiful. The end the post the the credits beautiful, like just a nice way to end the movie. It was nice. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

I agree. I think I think this movie looks pretty fucking good, bro. And that's practicality mixed with CGI, and that'll always be superior than shooting on the fucking volume. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Right, and we've talked about that multiple times and how that's just been an issue all the way around. How people have actually adopted that for like movies when Star Wars was trying to like start small with just TV shows with the volume and then they escalated it to movies too, so it's like damn.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Yeah, no one shoots on location no more. It's even though that's like a lot of Poland did and they did too. So Descendent Ocranon knows what's up.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Right. But Josh World Building, the MCU. Now that like I said, this is something different, right? The MCU and the the Sonyverse, in my opinion, it's always felt like at least with the first three movies, it always felt like these movies could always live in like their own multiverse, their own pocket universe. Like Spider-Man wasn't necessarily within the MCU, he kind of just jumped in, he kind of jumped out. You know, we had the the studio mandated MCU character in the movie, and that's about it, right? Like, that's basically the most that they worked to basically build this world up along with the MCU. Spider-Man, brand new day, changes that to a whole new level. The inclusion of all these characters, which this is something that I don't even understand why Marvel doesn't do that, why we don't even have this amount of characters in a movie. Like, if you guys don't have enough story to tell in a movie, then I you know, even though it's kind of like a pop-in, pop-out kind of thing, like with the Hulk, it's like that's real though. Like they are living their own lives, are they not? Like, they should be able to pop in and pop out of people's movies like nothing because we know what happened to them last. And if we're invested to the point where we're watching every single movie, then we know what they're up to and we know what's happening next, and it doesn't have to be a surprise, like, oh, smart Hulk all of a sudden, and it's like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it would just make more sense world building-wise within the regular MCU to have stuff like that. But I really love what they did with this movie, having all the inclusion, the inclusion of all these characters, and the way that they kind of played them right. The Punisher definitely stayed around a lot longer than what I was expecting. I thought it was gonna be kind of like, you know, he kind of makes his way out when um when Hulk makes his way out, but I really did enjoy that he was around though. So I really like their dynamic, him and Spider-Man's dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think every character that Spider-Man mingles with is fucking A1 shit, bro. I liked his banter with the Punisher, I liked his stuff with the Hulk. It's all good. It's all great. I can't wa I hope we get more stuff like this, you know. Like this is what you're kinda hoping for in the first couple ones, not just like, oh, I need a teacher to save my ass, and then boom, an Avenger shows up. You know what I mean? It's like Oh my god. It's like you need you need them to show up, mentor him for a little bit or whatever, and then let watch him spread his wing his metaphorical wings and fly away. You know what I mean? Like that's the kind of stuff you hope for.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Spray his metaphorical website and fly away like the spider he is. And like I said, world building-wise as well, to keep him up with a main DC or DCU, MCU, why did they change it to the same name is beyond me. I don't understand. Maybe there's no originality over there. Anyways, but the MCU. There's no profit over there either. Um, so the world building within the MCU is great. Obviously, something that needs to needs to happen. And this is what I mean, where like obviously we know where these characters are gonna end up next, probably in Doomsday or Seagal Wars, and we gotta be honest, they were kind of nerfed, right? These characters were, I mean, they went up against Thanos, don't get me wrong, one of them got their ass beat. Spider-Man, you know, in my opinion, even though it's small potato, like he almost ungloved fucking Thanos at one point, so it's like his Spider-Man is pretty tough in itself, but not tough enough to go against Doom, and I think they realized that, so they were like, How are we gonna beef these characters up in this movie? And I feel like they did have that task to kind of have them get you know leveled up for the what's gonna come next in in the MCU.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

So Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Man. This movie's like connections to the greater good. I mean the greater good, the greater universe, it makes it feel so pivotal. This feels like a movie you have to watch going forward. And I like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Um kind of, yeah. Well, I feel like every Spider-Man movie has kind of made you do that. I feel like that Sony was kind of like making it clear, like you need to make them watch.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

I don't know, man. I don't know. I can only get that vibe from like no way home, maybe, because it has multiverse stuff, multiverse shenanigans in it. And obviously it sets up this one, but I don't think you have to watch Homecoming or Far From Home. Think about it. You watch Civil War, they send him home, you don't really gotta watch Homecoming, he shows up again in Infinity War and Endgame and then skipped in the way home. I don't know if the other two are like pivotal like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Well, far from home happens after endgame. He's going through his loss of his mentor. Homecoming builds up his mentor.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Yeah, but like what else what really what else goes on in there? What do you find out? What what makes it important? That Fury was a scroll that whole time?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

That's not that doesn't feel as important as making Like I said, they that's where they you know, like I said, where Sony was like, hey, tie us into the MCU, but not so tight. You know what I'm saying? So it was like the first one was trying to build like in order to keep that connection and get people invested, it was trying to keep you like with that dynamic between RDJ and Tom Holland Spider-Man to basically carry that to Infinity War. So when that moment happened, we could feel something, and then we have to go watch Far From Home when it when it wound up rolling around. And then the way that they tied it loosely, obviously, or tied it how they were supposed to to the MCU was with the whole death of RDJ's uh Iron Man, and then how they had to, you know, obviously deal with that or whatever, and especially him having him as his mentor or whatever, how did that affect them and whatnot? So that's how they kind of tied it in within the MCU to make you feel like you had to watch it. Yeah, I feel like No Way Home's the only one where you're just like, I don't feel like you have to watch any of these MCU movies. Doctor Strange shows up or whatever. No Way Home is most definitely, in my opinion, the one that feels like the most out of pocket.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

I feel different because that one has multiverse stuff in it.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying, but it doesn't really have anything tying it to the MCU. There's nothing like, oh, Spider-Man had to deal with this in the MCU, so now he's bringing it over here. You know what I mean? This one was just like he had to deal with his own stuff, and his own stuff was spider stuff.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, but like who's to say that him f fucking with that also didn't fuck with like the shit that's gonna be going on in Doomsday or whatever. I think in no way home?

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah. Well, I mean, if they connect it later on, but as of right now, at the time of recording, there's no connection to the larger MCU besides the multiverse stuff. But I mean Sony was doing that on their own.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Right, but look, I think I think Far From Home and Homecoming are insignificant in that aspect because they don't really do anything too grand. I mean, he goes to the same arc twice. So, I mean and the way home he goes through something a little different. I'm just saying like, no, hold on, let me finish. And then there's nothing more significant in those as compared to this one, where they introduce a mutant and the inhibitor chips that will most likely come into play in future X-Men installments. So I think that's pivotal as fuck.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Well, that's what I'm telling you. I feel like this is the one that has the most connections to the MCU. That's what I'm telling you. That's what I said. I'm saying the other three. The other two they they do, but the third one probably has the less connection to the MCU.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

See, that's where we disagree, because I think you only need to really watch No Way Home and uh this one.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

That's what I'm saying. I feel like No Way Home doesn't need to be watched. I feel like you can move on from No Way Home and act like it never happened. If if they make it pay off or whatever in Secret Wars or something, but either way, either which way, unless they're gonna do callbacks, not really too much. I mean they kind of do something in Spider-Man 4 where they're just like, oh, Peter 2 had it like this or whatever, and it's like oh ha ha, a little throwaway line. It is what it is. It's not it's not like it's nothing too big. That's what I know. I mean, that's a that's probably a debate for like something else, but that's that's an interesting take, though. That is an interesting take. Um, but yeah, I really do like that the MCU is catching or keeping, or at least Sony is having to keep up Spider-Man with the larger MCU. I'm not too sure how I feel about having them stuff in Gene Gray and you know, obviously the Hulk in order to make that happen for this movie. But obviously, we're gonna have to talk about that when we get around to the plot and all and and whatnot. Um, but other than that, anything else with the world building that we we need to discuss? Well, I mean, we did we you did kind of touch on the inhibitor chips and everything that kind of were um uh that they were touched upon in this film. Tom Holland was the one, or Tom Holland Spider-Man was the one who created set thing, and this thing is largely known as a big reason why you know the X-Men are kind of put on, you know, on ice most of the time, is because they were, you know, they use inhibitor chips or collars or whatever they're using in that universe to basically uh nullify them, right? To make sure that they don't use their powers and you know the government gets the control when they use their powers or whatever, and blah blah blah blah. That's that's kind of a big thing too. That's another tie-in to the world building to the MCU that I'm just like, oh, okay, you know, is it this Spider-Man movie has a lot to do for what's gonna happen in the future, but Marvel, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Like you didn't have all this time to build this, or what? Apparently not. That's why I'm saying like this one feels pivotal. Like, like if you were to be like, okay, how do we set up the X-Men? You're saying that to me like we don't agree. Yeah, no, I'm saying, like, that's that's I have more points, man, and you just you just keep shutting my down. Like, I'm saying, like, it's crazy that they managed to sneak such a pivotal thing in. Like a Spider-Man movie, you know what I mean? It's not sneaking it in. It doesn't matter. They totally could have like set it set something up a whole different way and and not include this guy. This could have been another one-off to the Spider-Spider-Man saga that they're building or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

But that's what like the fact that it wasn't. When you say sneak it in, sneak it in would be like if you know, in passing, they talked about the inhibitor chip, but then they just kind of go their own separate way, and it's only meant for Spider-Man himself. That would be kind of like in passing, in my opinion. But if you're if you're saying like like this was kind of like a subtle hand and putting it in the movie, Josh, it's literally a main plot point. Literally the plot device in the movie. That's that's as heavy-handed as you can make it.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah, but I'm saying like the fact that it happens in a Spider-Man movie is crazy. This could have been anywhere else. Crazy in a good way or a bad way? Because I feel like that's where we're getting confused.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

I think it's a good way. Okay, well, we're gonna have to discuss that when we get to like the plot and all that stuff. Um, and then what else world building wise? Well, I mean, I would say the post-credit scene, but it doesn't really do too much. Besides Spider-Man is off world now. I mean, that would be for something different.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Yeah, I mean, I mean that is supposed to hint at like doomsday, secret wars, battle world shit, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Okay. Okay. Um we talked about the Hulk. Obviously, where he ends up is gonna be, like I said, we did power him up to the savage Hulk. The Punisher was in there. He doesn't really have anything new to bring to the table besides the dynamic with Spider-Man, and I kind of enjoy that. I think that's okay. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I mean, I think he's I think this is kind of it felt like almost like a like if we don't see him again outside of like I guess whatever they decide to throw him into next. I think him coming full circle and like apologizing to Spider-Man and all that stuff up for shooting him and all that after his go-around and like teaching him that and telling him that like that he would if he could take it all back, he would just to have time with his family again. Like I enjoy those soft spots, so I would say it's probably a nice little end to this little to his character, should we not see him again? So I I enjoyed his little arc, so it was nice.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Okay, I think we will see him for a little bit longer. Did he say explicitly like he doesn't want to come back or what?

SPEAKER_02 42:42

He wants to come back, but you know, I feel like it's one of those things where like if he isn't writing it himself, or he's like coming up to Marvel to be like, hey, I want to do this, they're not gonna really do anything with him. Okay, okay. And like I hope we get a movie at some point, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:57

And it's just him dropping bodies. That'd be sick. Not just a 10 minute special. Yeah, no, I need I need two hours of him just dropping bodies. Yeah, a John Wick style movie just fucking going in. That'd be sick. Um so we Punisher. Gene Gray. Obviously, I feel like that's a big thing. Um, this is something that is also uh a big thing to put into a Spider-Man movie. Not only is she the villain, which is kind of crazy, um, but she's also, you know, technically I mean, do you c Kamala Khan is technically the first mutant, I think, but she's technically the first mutant. I don't know. Whoever the first I the that one dude in Black Widow was like, I'm the first mutant too, and it's like I don't know who the first mutant is anymore. I don't know. It was I don't know at this point.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

It was um uh what's his name? Namor. Namor is the first mutant. Technically.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

But we haven't name dropped mutant though.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Have we? Yeah, yeah, they did. He was the first mutant?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. Perfect. At least we got one. So he would be the first one then. Right. Because he got the theme drop. So Gene is basically gonna be the actual mutant to unlock the X-Men and everything. Cause everybody knows at this point. I think general audiences know and associate Gene Gray with X-Men and obviously the comics, they ever people in the comics they know Gene Gray.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Scott Summers, Charles Xavier, shit like that.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Mm-hmm. They sh a general audience probably already know this by now. So it's it's one of those things where I'm like, that's another big thing to kind of put into a Spider-Man movie, right? Um, to kind of propel uh the MCU's you know, mutant force, basically.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yeah, a b a ballsy move for sure. And like I think it I think it works. I know you think differently, but I think it comes together pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

I mean, the director himself, Destin Daniel Cretton, said that this wasn't a mandate from Marvel Studios, that this was a request from him to make the story work, and apparently they obliged and said it was okay. I like I said too, this is one of those things where I'm like, I can believe him, or I can kind of think like, okay, well, Kevin Fahi wouldn't just let you just put an X-Men character in there unless they wanted it to propel something else that's gonna obviously happen down the road or whatever. They wouldn't just make you put Gene Gray in there and you're gonna put a you know put a bullet in her and then that's the end of her run, you know what I mean? Imagine if this was like the early 2000s, you know how like they used to do in every single villain back in the day. Oh yeah, they would just fucking murder them. They just murder murder Gene Grey and it's just like, wait, man, we needed her. Like we we actually we kind of needed her.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Yeah. I mean, I have no doubt that like uh they were probably in the room planning that shit, and and they were just like, Well, uh, if you use her, you can't kill her. We do we're planning the X-Men, whatever. So it was probably like a what is it like you scratch my back, I scratch your back, and we're all we're all cool about it, type shit.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Right. And like I said, I mean to to if tie it into the MCU looks great, but just my thing is is that like as a as a guy who likes Spider-Man and likes the movies and Marvel and all that stuff, and thinks that hey, we should kind of be doing this with all the movies, it's kinda weird that we're kind of just heavy-handedly giving all this to Spider-Man, you know what I mean? Like just having him juggle all these plot points that are gonna necessarily prepare or which are is basically gonna propel the next phase of the MCU, you know?

SPEAKER_02 46:33

If this is like what if uh yeah, I mean I understand what you're saying. It is it's it's a problem to lean it all on one movie, and we I mean we've seen what that kind of stuff happens to movies all the time. But if this is one of those things where like they want to get they want to in name and look and sound realistic, like realism, whatever, but in this way pedal these kind of heavier comic book stuff because Spider-Man and the X-Men, you know, they cross over, Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four cross over, whatever. So if they want to go comic booky like that, but also make it work, I don't know if I have a problem. I don't necessarily know if I have a problem with that yet.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

I mean, isn't it cool to see the implications of like Spider-Man creating that, which I mean I don't think that's happened in the comics where it's like Spider-Man's the the main reason why, you know, the X-Men can be basically exterminated. Yeah, that's usually like the government or like Trask or something. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. So like that's kind of weird to kind of put him in that in that you know in that bubble. It could pay off really well if done right down the road and all that stuff. Um but yeah, that's that's basically what I mean is just you know the whole the whole a let's give them all this heavy duty because the technically how many movies do we have until Doomsday? Uh it was this one, just this one. It was just this one, right? So it's like we have a lot of heavy liftings to do before Doomsday, and then I mean there's no uh I don't think there's anything coming out between them.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

There's Vision Quest, I think, coming out in October. And I think that's about it. I mean X-Men 97 that isn't connected, it's coming to an end like next week as of recording, but I think everything that's slated to come out, like Black Panther, Ghost Rider, that all comes after Secret Wars.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

So okay. So that's what I'm saying. It just seems like with limited track and the track heading towards Doomsday, we had to really put a lot into Spider-Man brand new day in order to make that happen. And you know, that's probably I think that's everything when it comes down to the world building aspect, because it's gonna lead me to the whole plot thing and say some of these things that they smushed in there, and I know we're gonna have the conversation and it's fine. I'm hoping recency bias does not affect this conversation so aggressively. The movie's great, I gotta say, we'll give our ratings pretty soon, but at least with the plot being a little bit, in my opinion, stuffed up with all these different plots that basically need to be, you know, either expanded to a next Spider-Man film, could have waited for a next Spider-Man film, or needed to be kind of dashed out in order to propel what the greater MCU is basically asking for. Having these all these different elements put into this movie made for what I believe is a messy third act, um, which I mean we're no strangers to that within the MCU, and it's kind of hard to always finish on a high note uh a lot of the times. But I do think that a lot of these plot points, uh, multiple times in this movie when we think we are about to get it solved and resolved, Gene Gray, you know, the Hulk thing, you know, we we cut away, and then all there's more because now there's you know damage control that we gotta deal with, and then you know, all there's more because there's still the inhibitor chips that we gotta deal with, and then all there's more because there's still the gene gray thing that we gotta deal with. And it's like, okay, wait, hold on, let me breathe. So I do think some of these plot things that are stuffed in here, and they're they are some of the things that we kind of talked about. Like I said, Hulk being put in there in order to propel the greater MCU and actually put him in a position where he's gonna actually kick ass in Doomsday and not have to waste time trying to figure out this whole uh Professor Hulk thing, Spider-Man as well, getting his nice little buff. I appreciate that as well. I think that's a great evolution and genius idea to have him have his web shooters at one point and then grow out of his web shooters. I think that's like I don't know if that's been done in the in the comics, but that I feel like that's like having your cake and eating it too, because I believe I remember when people saw Toby McGuire Spider-Man, and the earlier chatter was like, Oh, what about his web shooters? So when uh you know TASM came around, they were like, Oh, make sure they have the web shooters, and so they gave him the web shooters, and now it's like we've seen this Spider-Man go through the web shooters and actually evolve to his own webs. I think that's pretty fucking sick.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah, I thought that was cool. Um I know. I mean, we I think I just I I disagree. I think everything kind of ties up itself nicely. And like I said, I think even the smaller characters got their little arcs like Punisher. We didn't see him as much, but he like I said, I think he has a little ending. Hulk has clearly uh new ties to re-figure out, you know what I mean? That's why I I kind of like the little line where she where he was like, I think she broke something, which I hope means she broke the truce between these two because one Bruce is wearing the inhibitor, which I think kind of already crosses the line, probably in like Hulk's eyes, you know what I mean? Yeah, like if we're supposed to be one, what are you doing wearing this, you know? And twos, so like I can't wait to see the implications of that. I hope he does show up in Doomsday, but if he doesn't, oh, we're gonna have some answers, we're gonna need some answers from him in Secret Wars. And I know that's like a whole year away, but like right.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

I and I do think that's another thing too that kind of uh hurts the film too, because even though I do think that they should be kind of flowing through, I mean, where's Hulk's kid? You know, that's something that we need to talk about too. Same thing, the whole inhibitor thing is one of those things I was thinking about too. It's like you know, that whole tree thing and all that, but like wasn't he content with the smart Hulk persona, you know what I mean? Like, even when he left She Hulk and her thing, he was like, I'm cool or whatever, and he wound up going doing his own thing or whatever, had his son or whatnot. And then in this one is just like, oh, he just ditched that whole persona, that whole smart Hulk persona, and just kind of went away, and then you know, and obviously he's able to change at will because he has the inhibitor now, but like what caused him to get that in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Right. Like, and I just that's just universal, bro, and it's not fair that like we have to get these questions in between because I mean I know a lot of the characters that we saw, we're not gonna get like a definitive answer to where they're at until later down the line. Like, I think they just announced champions, which is like we'll probably see that kid there, you know, but I don't give a fuck about half the characters that they showed. Like, I am I gonna care about ra um fucking Agatha? No. Am I gonna care about this kid? No. Am I gonna care about like Kamala Khan anymore? No. I like and I g that's just because the MCU try to make them important, but didn't do the work for them to be important, so I guess I don't care. Hulk is important. And so I like Universal and them not trying to play ball and at least give us something between Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

I mean I'm between the Universal thing altogether. I think that's more of a oh, they didn't know what to do with them, so they sidelined them, and then they needed him for the movie, and so they brought him back, and then they're thinking, well, yeah, we are gonna need them in that Avengers movie, so we're gonna have to figure out how to buff them up and everything. I just feel like obviously we're not gonna get a solo film, and I I think that's what you're trying to like get at, is that like you know, Universal needs to give us a solo film, a Hulk, or you know, a Mark Ruffalo-led solo film in order to kind of give us that in-between. But they show us just fine, like this, and even in She-Hulk, like how he is and everything like that, like they're able to reuse them in this way. They should be able to kind of map out his trajectory, but this, you know, obviously, like I said, this seems more like a last-ditch effort, more than he needed to be in that movie. Yeah, it seemed like you know what I mean? Like it seemed like he needed to they needed to have him in there in order to buff him up because like I said, not enough road, tracks ending pretty soon, and we gotta get these characters into Doomsday and or Secret Wars coming up.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Yeah. And I think it's a good I think we left off pretty well for him anyway. Interesting because he like he starts off as smart Hulk, and then Gene basically loses control of him with Bruce's help, and then he turns into Savage Hulk. So I'm hoping that that's either because she broke something for real, or that was his like defense mechanism, and I mean I'm just not too sure which is which. So I hope we get an answer for those. But Hulk Hulk will always be a mystery, I feel, because it's like when will we see him again? Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Right. I mean, just whenever Marvel wants to stuff him in the next movie, which I mean it's cool to see him, and I like I said, we can have the evolution in between, or at least in these movies and all that stuff, but have a better mapped out plan would have probably helped this movie a lot more. Because if he would have been in here as Savage Hulk and they didn't need to have to break it like that, and it would have been more like you know, it feels more like a retread of the whole like Wanda thing in Age of Ultron, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

In a way, and it's like it felt like they they had to do that, obviously, in order to kind of create tension. And I really do like what they did with him in this movie because they really played him like a fucking horror monster, like a fucking beast coming at his ass.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Yeah, this was probably the first time I was really excited to see him because I mean who's go he's going up against fucking Spider-Man. I have not liked this Hulk. You know my disdain for this guy since Avengers, you know what I mean? Right. I only liked him in The Incredible Hulk, which I mean isn't Ruffalo at all, and then fast forward damn near 20 years later, and I'm excited to see him in a movie that he probably shouldn't have been a part of in the first place, but he's going up against Spider-Man, like that's insane.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

And just the inclusion about like Berthaw as well, like having hit Frank Castle in there to kind of showcase the difference between the kind of Hulk energy that was being brought, because I mean he even though he was afraid to kind of fight the Hulk, he was still like kind of in there when it was smart Hulk, like he was down to like kind of put his neck on the line and shit. But as soon as he saw that he was turning into something different, it was like hold on a second. He was like, I gotta go get the other one, you know what I mean? So I was like, that's that's cool that you know that they kind of played it out that way. I think it was like a smart decision, that whole like sequence on how they kind of buffed him up.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

I know it's funny because I was on the CG, I was like, uh like if the Hulk wasn't bulletproof the way he is and all that shit, if you notice, like every shot he we had on him was a headshot, you know what I mean? Right. And then even when Peter like dragged Frank across the ground and like Hulk was leaping over him, headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot until he landed. So I mean he was hitting his shots, but it's the fucking Hulk, so it doesn't even matter.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

What are you gonna do? Shoot him in the eyes, he's just gonna pop those shits right out. It's right. Um but yeah, I really do think that there's a few like the whole chip thing, that's another thing too. That I was like, okay, you know, I thought it was cool if he was trying to do it for himself, but then it kind of went into it went from him doing it for himself to being like a one shoe fits all for everybody. Like it has now become a universal chip, like anybody could put it on, you know what I mean? And I was like, that's cool too. Kind of fast how we got there, but that's okay too, and I I I appreciate it. It but like that I feel like that's another thing that was kind of stuffed in there. Damage control. I mean, I like that seemed like it would have made sense if Gene's character was played a little bit as it was supposed to be played, but they kind of put themselves at like on different sides, and so like one who we think is the villain turns out to not to be the villain, but is actually the villain, and they're actually the villain. So it's like I it just made it for me, it just kind of got a little a little convoluted towards the end there.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

I was kind of expecting it from the jump. I was just like, shady companies, these corporations, they always turn out to be the bad guy. Oscorp, Shield was technically, you know, a bad guy. Fucking like damage control, like I told you off but I think him trusting them after what they tried to do to him in no way home is kind of a red flag, and like, yeah, he could be like, oh, they changed directors and all that stuff, but it's like these are shady motherfuckers, they're always gonna be shady. There's a reason for that. They're big corporations, they're supposed to they're always gonna be shady. So uh Jean turning out to be just going after her sister and stuff, and then them be turning out to be shady, like who would have thought Spider-Man should have known better, I feel.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Well, I felt like he was. Um, I think he did know better because even like in when he was in the office, he was like you know, he was like, Oh, that's need to know bases, and then he told them, Oh, do you ever hear about this? And he's like, Oh, what does that mean to you? And he was like, Oh, that's need to know bases, and he you know, I felt like he was still kind of cautious about it, but you know, he was obviously trying to play by the right rules, and if they the the bigger company, obviously, if they kinda show that they're doing what they gotta do, like you're gonna kinda stand on that side. So I kinda understand that. But I mean, I do think I that's what I'm saying, like I do think that they made him Spider-Man in this one. So I kind of feel like he wasn't poorly judgment like he didn't have that poor judgment like he did in the first, like what, two two movies, possibly the third movie as well, depending on how you look at it. So yeah, I mean, that was pretty cool. Like I said, Frank didn't really have a lot of plot, like to be honest, if anything, he's like a true like glorified cameo, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

I I know I said that before, but right now I don't know, I don't think so. Him him and so he plays a part by helping them and then by also aiding Spider-Man and showing him that life uh like him, life like he's living isn't all that great and all that stuff, and two, Hulk and solitary. Right, and Hulk shows him how to fix everything and all that stuff, which people were saying like it should have been the lizard and all that stuff, but I mean, do we really want the lizard again? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

And then No, because they can't do Spider-Man villains in a Spider-Man movie.

unknown 1:01:26

Nah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Well, you're expecting a Spider-Man villain in a Spider-Man movie? We already can take him on?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

We already saw a villain, we already saw the lizard, bro. I don't know if we need another lizard. They're still staying far away from the core things, like Oscorp and all that stuff, which that's just an MCU thing at this point, so we're just gonna have to let that shit go. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

That's not an MCU thing. That has to be a m a Sony thing, right? Like they they just refuse like That's what I'm saying. It's like it seems like they're trying they're giving us what we wanted, right? Where they were like, oh, the streets, the street level story or whatever, we're not going multiverse or anything. But they still, in my opinion, overstuffed it because you still have it's MCU streets. Yeah, you still gotta deal with all that stuff. But then it makes you think, where the fuck was he in Thunderbolts? Where the fuck was he, you know, in uh when Daredevil or when Fisk is over here taking over the the city? It's like where are these people? They should be in and out or at least being name dropped or something within different projects in order to kind of let us know where they are, if you know, kind of quarrelsome questions or whatever, and blah blah blah blah. But they just kind of move on and you know just be like, okay, you didn't don't worry about that, don't worry about that, just keep keep going. So that's kind of like an that is an MCU thing, but I do think, like I said, this one has an extra task of having to build up to towards doomsday, and I feel like we feel or at least for me, I feel that in this film with the plots, and we'll and like I said, it does kind of kind of get a little messy for me towards the end there, but you know, it is what it is. But Josh, what about the fight scenes? People dubbing this movie better than Spider-Man 2, Sam Raimi Spider-Man 2, okay. If anything, people are saying that this is at least top three Spider-Man movies of all time. Okay, and so some somebody has it in one of those slots, okay? Does the fight scenes contribute to that? Are the fight scenes one of the top tier, you know, the the the peakiest peak of the Spider-Man franchise can offer when it comes to fight scenes? The cream of the carp.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

I mean, they're great. I mean, better than what we've gotten in the home trilogy for sure. Like he wasn't using he wasn't just using his gadgets, he was actually shooting his webs and kicking and punching and all that stuff. It was great. I thought it was great. He even moved like a spider when when going against the Hulk. You know what I mean? That shit's great. I love that. You love I love that so much. Does that make it better than the other ones? I don't know, because Toby still technically has more hands than he does. You know what I mean? He he was throwing haymakers to Doc Awk, to Gringoblin, to fucking all these people. It's insane. I don't know. I don't I mean, great stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Like the Hulk wouldn't wipe Doc Ok with like like that's just not even a question. This one has gone against Thanos, Hulk. See, this is why they think that they can just pop Yelena in the movie, and this is where I think it's kind of fucked up for the Spider-Man. Talking about small potato, big potato while they're over there uh fucking around with the rock and shit. We're not gonna forget, okay? We're not gonna forget that this Spider-Man went toe-to-toe with Captain America, okay? Went toe-to-toe with Ant-Man. No, hey, hey, calm down. Went toe-to-toe with Ant-Man, okay? He went he went he went up against Bucky and the Falcon, okay? And then he went and leveled up that shit and went against Like I said, okay, Vulture in one movie, but then he went up against Thanos. Fucking Thanos. He needed help. He would have had his ass too. He would have had his ass too, and you know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:11

No, he wouldn't. Without without Storm uh Storm, without Strange to tell basically teleporting where he was going, he he wouldn't have had him. The moment he caught him lacking, he caught him. Thanos had him by the fucking neck.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

What well because he had a because he was getting he was getting the glove off. And he was like literally like if you think about it, he was just like like holding his arm down, like solo. Like he was holding that shit and he was trying to pry the glove off, and then you know, obviously, you know, Star Lord was like, and he you know, fucked it up for everybody. Right. But he went up against him. I mean, Mysterio, like I said, small pathetic, probably, if you want to really think about it. But then, I mean, you went up, he went up against multiversal threats. He went back up against another person's villains, right? Doc Ock. Uh same thing with the Green Goblin, like he had to take them all on, the lizard, whatever. All the good shit. Like he basically gave us all in what he had a fight, but then he also had help, right? So I mean, and then he goes up against Hulk. Toby just went up against Green Goblin, Doc Ock, and another Green Goblin? Venom? Venom?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

Green Goblin was handing him Harry was handing him his ass up until the end, which is just unfair. I thought Tob Toby blew his face up. What are you talking about? Well, yeah, I mean in their rematch, but like before he donned the symio suit and all that stuff, when he caught him lacking, he was giving him the hands. That's true. And then he got him with that slingshot forehead thing, and it was a wrap, but Well, I mean he was pulling punches.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

But I'm just saying, out of everybody, like if we gotta want to talk power scaling at this point, Tom Harling gotta be the the strongest Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

I'm not talking just like power scaling. You said fight scenes. I'm going by who has the most hands. Toby does not be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

That's what I'm saying. But that has to deal with power scaling, right? Because I mean, if he's going up against the Hulk, Toby hasn't had a feat like that. He hasn't needed to fight anybody like that ever. No. Not that we've seen. No. Damn, would that be crazy though? So technically the fight scene's gotta be more superb. And I gotta say, exactly what you were saying. I think I mean in Sam Raimi's ones, like they were cool, but when it was like hand to hand, there was not really like exactly what you were saying. Like there was no webs coming out or anything. Like he would swing and it would it would be like back and forth, and he would probably like do a a whip or a little thwip here and there or whatever during a fight, but it would mostly just be you know hands, and he would be like you said, throwing haymakers, fucking grabbing them, fucking gone.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

If send if sand man wasn't made out of sand, half his face would be gone. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Right, exactly. And then uh in Tazm, they kind of did the whole thing with the spider. That's why I felt like with this one, I think, you know, I'm not dragging John Watts like that, but what I'm saying is is that if this one you could tell that they were like, let's take out you know, basically the best of both worlds. You know, TASM, he was moving like a spider, he was using his webs to fight a lot, boom, boom, boom. Where like Toby Spider-Man, he had like obviously that charisma, you know, that that stature where it was like, you know, that was something too. I gotta say, thinking talking about it now. Them telling Tom Holland, hey man, I need you to go more Brooklyn, and him kind of pulling out his Andrew Garfield bag, Brooklyn. I was like, that's pretty cool. That's what I'm saying. Like, it just felt like this movie they took out the best parts of both sides, which I would have thought they would have figured that out with the first three MCU movies. In saying that it takes the fourth one to be like the little Yachty meme. Oh, okay, you know what I'm saying? So it's like now we got like I guess the best version because we get both sides, right? We get that acting like a spider, and I gotta say too, even with Tazm, he didn't really fight anybody big, he fought the lizard. Okay, he fought a rhino in a mech suit. Or a person in a mech rhino suit, and then there was obviously, you know, his best friend too. So I mean and gravity. He obviously he had to fight gravity. Unfortunately, they they won that battle in the second movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

I think I think it really shows like the care for both sides in this, in the suit itself, you know. I thought this suit looked phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Right, right, best Spider-Man suit, in my opinion, behind obviously in my opinion, in Tasm 2. It got up there though. From the other three suits, let's just say those ones are garbage, they're not really that great. This one really even that ending suit at the end of No Way Home, that one was kind of fucking trash too. I'm kinda glad they went this direction with it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

I had a problem with how shiny that motherfucker looked. This is like really nice, but and you could tell he took inspiration from the other ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

He took it mostly in the suit, in my opinion, obviously from Andrew Garfield, but mostly, you know, the web raised and the chest plate and everything like that. Like, I feel like that's mostly Toby Maguire Spider-Man. You know what I mean? So I obviously, in my opinion, everybody thinks he has like one if not TASM 2 is his suit, that's basically like the the best suit, the raised webbing the way that it kind of is just outlined, is just it's peak, it's peak engineering, and uh how they cracked it in the early 2000s, and there's like, hey man, we are just gonna ignore that shit for the next what fifteen years like okay, we'll we'll damn that's insane. But the fight scenes in this one I do think they're pretty much like superb. I I mean with the Hulk was was one of like the ones that I was waiting for. Was that only like the only biggest one that we had? Scorpion a couple times. When he was going after Gene was pretty cool, the whole tank scene and everything, but he wasn't really fighting anybody. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

I think when he's basically clearing out the hand and the security guards for the other place, and the Hulk, and that's all right. Yeah. I did like the the tank chase scene, I thought that was pretty cool. That was pretty cool. When he was fucking up Scorpion, that was cool. It wasn't really a fight, that was more like a slaughter, but yeah, that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

I mean, it was a nice little back and forth until he fucking went all black-eyed and was like, oh I was like, damn, that's insane. Um, but yeah, so that fight scenes were pretty much good. I mean, are they the best in the franchise? Shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

I still think better than his first three fights.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

Better than his first for sure, yeah. But I do think, you know, the fight with Doc Ock on the train is still kind of like a top-tier fight scene for you know Spider-Man 2. And then even in TASM 2, I gotta say that whole scene where like he's swinging through the city and that whole like boom, boom, boom, and then you know, they have to fight him. Like that shit's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Yeah, fighting Harry was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

I I even think in the first one, like him fighting the lizard was pretty sick too. Yeah, they have their those fights felt grand in scale too.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

So they were fucking they yeah, they were cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:25

Yeah, so I mean, there there is some better ones out there, but I gotta say, if we're trying to talk about like a good fight scene, that Hulk one was a really good one. I like even like the webs indenting the Hulk because of just how much pressure is being put on him, like the attention to detail was just insane. Like in that whole fight. Like it was nice. It was good. Um but yeah, so we're getting around to the end, Josh. Any cons for this movie that you have to say? Any you know what I mean? Anything to kind of bring up? Because if not, I'm bringing up my Gene Greg. Oh my god. We're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

Um I guess we should have had a little bit more like Ned and MJ stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:10

Uh yeah, that that was that's what I meant, where it was like, if not give us t in this movie, they could have saved that for the next movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

Right. Have him use this one to get get through that journey or whatever, and then in the next one address everything. You know, maybe do what Andrew did and like say check up on them, follow them around, whatever, make sure they're cool, and then you know, go do something else, whatever. Just so they can get be in the movie and know that oh we didn't forget about 'em, but yeah. I would I would have liked the resolution of that a lot sooner. But I mean, other than that, I thought this movie was pretty superb.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

So I gotta say the product placement in this movie was fucking egregious. Agregious. Which one? Okay, like I mean, the barrel thing, it was small. I didn't really worry about that one. That one wasn't really like the biggest deal, but I was just like, oh, his beer brand is right there. I was like, how many times are we gonna see that shit? Um, that like what was it? Like fire, whatever it's called, that little like whatever the fuck, like they had to keep or what is it, the liquid IV? It was the liquid IV, his like energy drink thing, whatever the fuck that was. The liquid IV thing that he needed multiple times, and then the Samsung phone. Oh my god, the Samsung phone. I and you know what? I probably wouldn't have really noticed that one because I know a lot of people are like, oh, if the good guy has an iPhone or whatever, blah blah blah, like they're usually gonna be a good guy or whatever. Like, there was like that whole thing in the 2020s, um, when like the whole Disney Plus stuff was coming out. Yeah. And I I was like, okay, whatever. But then I saw like literal ads on Twitter of like Spider-Man with the phone and everything. And so like every single time I seen him pull out that phone, or Ned would put out the pull out the phone to basically do the whole like Spider-Tracker app, I was just like, God damn, product placement, man. Holy shit. Like, what the hell's going on here? But it was kind of it was a little bit, it was a little it was a lot, it was a lot. So I gotta say that one. I that's my first gripe. But I I mean Sony's kind of been known to do like this whole product placement thing. They kind of just tack it on. If we all remember Madame Webb. The Pepsi sign just coming down on you. I I don't want to remember it. Imagine Pepsi sending you to hell. Like that'd be crazy. Drink more Pepsi. It's gonna get you. Um, but yes, my biggest gripe in this film has to coincide with, I guess, a lot of people's gripes when they say, you know, Spider-Man does not get enough of his own villains in his film. Gene Gray being the main villain in this movie has to be, in my opinion, one of the worst decisions to have been made. Um, and I would have taken it if it was one of those stories where it was like, oh, she is actually misunderstood. But we you know, my opinion, she murdered people in this film. And even at one point when she had her out, she threatened to murder multi multiple people inside of her bubble. Um because, you know, she found out what she found out in in her cell and whatnot. Um she manipulated people's minds, and you know, even made, you know, even made one of those people that got manipulated endure a fucking cop car to the face for no reason. Like, and he just woke up and was like, Whoa, what happened? And it's like I I couldn't find the sympathy when it comes down to her character, and even then, I felt like there was like a distinct way that they kind of portrayed her uh beforehand, and I understand that a lot of people are gonna be like, Well, Jean Grey and the Dark Phoenix movies, and Jean Grey and what we seen her in the third one, it wasn't good, but uh, you know, was she not good in the second movie? You know what I mean? So I'm like, I I kind of feel like I have an idea of what like Jean Grey is supposed to be. Now, if we're gonna do this whole like, oh, she's she's messy or she's broken, so she's gonna do a few things and you're just gonna have to excuse it. Like, for me, I think we've already went through this and we've talked about this, especially with like you know, characters like she Hulk and everything is like it feels like these girl characters get a little bit more of a pass, even if you look at Supergirl, like she can go ahead and kill the the actual hero, but like Superman wouldn't be able to or she's able to actually kill the villain, no problem, but like Superman wouldn't be able to kill the villain. Like I wouldn't feel like any you know, we kind of learned that in Man of Steel, you know what I mean? Like it would just be a no-no thing. Um, so it's like for me, she doesn't just get a pass, and uh, I feel like they kind of dug her into a hole with this movie, and it it just her not being like a side character to assist the main villain, which could have been anybody, if it was damage control, they could have been sending out the villains, and probably you know, under under damage control watch or whatever, it could have been like a whole Waller situation where you know they're sending out their own league or whatever to kind of handle certain things or you know, do things in the dark or whatever. Maybe round up X-Men. Maybe they're sending Scorpion out there to try to round up these X-Men, and you know, one of them they didn't realize oh, it's a telepath or whatever. Like, obviously, we don't know their X-Men, but like round up the mutants or whatever, yeah. And it's like and it's all undercover, and then Spider-Man has to go and help them out because he said that he needs to help them. I don't know, something different where it's like it gives us a little bit more plausible deniability. Same thing with Wanda. I mean, that was something that was like, okay, we can get past certain things, but she enslaved the whole town. She went villain mode multiple times. She killed a lot of Wong's men. Can we forgive her and give her an actual redemption arc? I don't know at this point. I feel like that's something that only time can tell if like m if they do it right, but at this point, how many more how many more outs does she get?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:20

I mean she died a villain, so yeah. I mean I uh Wanda up to a certain point and then she died a villain, so she might come back. I don't know. I think she's dead. But I think she might come back. I don't know, dude. I simply disagree. I mean I think I think she was doing what she did out of revenge and stuff, and then when it's all when it all comes down, she learns to be better, which I think kind of fits the whole the whole premise of the movie. I mean Bruce has to start all over, technically, so it's it's a brand new day for him, it's brand new day for her, Peter, Frank, like they're all trying to just be better. So I I think that's like the point.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

I didn't hear anything about her trying to be better. What do you mean? She was gonna actively kill everybody after yeah, okay, but before it wasn't a dog, like Speeder had to have a sit down in his mind after she jumped in there and threatened to jump in there. Exactly. And then he still jumped in the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:38

Yeah. To show her that there's better ways to do shit, and you don't have to go down this road of being spiteful or whatever. And so it sends her on a new path to be good.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

Right, the triggering event to to do something like that, right? But I get that. But I don't feel like she did anything to kind of deserve Spider-Man because that's just my thing. I don't feel like Spider-Man would be an accomplice to any of this if he would have thought that she was in the wrong in the first place. And for the most part, she was in the wrong. Like I said, she murdered somebody in front of his face. Why didn't he save her either? I don't know. But or him. Why didn't he cause it was the old man that got hit by the car? It was right in front of his face. He didn't try to save him either. But he just doomed. Was it for his secret identity? Holy shit, dude. You you just let him die for your secret is crazy. You know what I mean? That's you know. Well, I guess Superman did it to the to the falafel guy. That's right. I guess it happens. I guess it happens. But in this one, it was kind of like, oh damn, you know what I mean? So it's like if that if it got to that point, I'm just like, okay, well, you know, I feel like Spider-Man would have taken that into consideration, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:01

I don't know, man. I think he's all about helping people even after the fact. Cause if not, he would have taken in Frank, wouldn't he?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

Well, that's what I'm saying too. That's another thing. We never they're over here talking about they're trying to give us like past rapport about like oh the thing that he had to do, like save him and everything like that, but we never never saw anything like that, right? And you know, if Marvel, if Marvel has taught us anything, is if they talk about something, i.e. like Budapest, don't ever think you're gonna see that shit in your life. So it's never gonna happen. Um, so I was just like, okay, well, there's that, or whatever, but at the end of the day, it's like for me, if we would have had a straight-lined Spider-Man villain, it would have made this like the ending a lot smoother. Because in my opinion, them having to like I said, stop Jean Grey. Let's just say, let's just say what happened with the Hulk and everything could have been like a good like a one of the climax, right? Like, oh my god, the right is going, whatever. We're almost done. He stops her, boom, she's going to jail. Oh shit, no wait, the twist. It's actually she's misunderstood, right? It's the other people that are actually then. Okay. I'm gonna go and we're gonna go do that. Alright? We're gonna go stop him. He goes, he goes, he goes, whatever. He goes, he's about to stop him. And then we're about to get there, and they're like, oh wait, wait, wait. Now she's the villain again, and you know what I mean? And we're just like, oh shit, we're back on this right again, and then we're about to get down and stop her. And then, oh wait, we have to give Spider-Man his resolution, we have to give him his, you know, his moment to basically uh to get back up again, right? So we have to give him that. Gotta do it again, and then we get that weird editing where it's like, oh now Frank Castle can automatically teleport. I didn't know he could do that, but he's able to take a sniper shot from buildings away, and then just completely teleport from one spot to another, and then right into the front door of the hospital where he brings in Spider-Man. It's not a spoiler because it is out there on the treaders as well, but it's one of those things where it's like, you know, it felt like towards the end there, because of so much that was happening, they really had to chop it down for time, and that's one of the goof ups that basically came with it was oh, he's there, now he's there to pick him up and everything, and then you know, we gotta kind of wrap it up. So, first of all, put on the mask and everything, and yeah, obviously I guess nobody's gonna really worry that you know the actual Spider-Man will go out, and I'm guessing he's not worried about any of the doctors that actually saw his face because you know Frank Castle did say he was gonna take care of it, so I wonder if he took care of it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

Oh well, I I told you that I don't think it matters because no one's gonna know who he is. Um no one even knows who Peter Parker is, so that's the kind of the point. And then but they can learn. But they can learn who he can learn from what?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

What do you mean from what? They got his ID? What the fuck? Like where the fuck does he put his phone too? In his pockets? Does Spider-Man suit has pockets?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

I would imagine it has like some kind of a compartment. How else does he sti where is he sticking his uh web shooters?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:35

I feel like we know where he's sticking all these things in his bag of tricks. You know, not the spidey sack, you know what I'm saying? That this is just a you gotta do what you gotta do. Um, but yeah, I I don't know. I feel like Gene added in there, like I said, there's a few things that were added in there that obviously make it a little bit more better for the MCU side and like connection and all that stuff, but then it also gets a little murky for our solo Spider-Man film because it if like this was one of those things where it's like have your cake and eat it too. It's like, oh yeah, we'll keep it street level, but also kind of make it a little more grander for like the MCU. And it's like, oh, I don't know if they really went down the right path with actually making Gene Gray the villain. So and my take says that she's a villain, so okay, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:28

I I guess, bro, I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree, because I disagree.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:32

And we will, and we will to agree to disagree with that one. Um, but yeah, so where do we think the MCU is gonna have to head after this moment? Like we said, we uh that whole blimp is going somewhere else, right? So I mean, where where are we heading off to? Secret Wars. So no Spider-Man in Doomsday? I don't think so. Damn, so we're not gonna see Doctor Doom.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:57

So my running theory is that if worlds are colliding into each other, this is another this is basically an incursion, and it could be our Spider-Man, uh, or it could I'm sorry, it could be Toby's Spider-Man, and it could be them crashing into our world, and which is why if the leaks are true, things happen the way they happen. I'm not gonna go into the leaks, but yeah, the way things happen the way they you've read them, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know. So they send w the people to that to him, and you know, they deal with that the way they deal with it, and then boom, and then now we have the X-Men colliding, and we have the Fantastic Four colliding and all that stuff. So my theory is it's picking up Toby or a different variant of Toby. So on and so forth.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:51

Okay. Probably. I don't know. But I didn't wait for that. I tick tocked it because I was like, I heard it's you. Useless. If this is another like useless one, like that Captain America thing, holy shit. I'd be so upset. I don't know. But Josh, what do we think overall about this film? I mean, you kind of gave us all your cons, right? You don't have any more cons when it came down to the film? No? So just give us your little wrap-up here and give us your rating.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:23

I think this movie's great. I think it's a great step direction for Tom Holland. I hope Destin Daniel Curtin comes back to do the rest of them. Um Well when will we s when will we see them again? I'm not too sure. But I hope it's in a couple of years. Not like Matt Reeves years, but like two to three years, Max. Um that that's kind of my timetable. I mean you'd want to capitalize on the almost billion dollar film already. Uh so I would I give it like nine out of ten, just because I do think they should have wrapped up or eat not included the Ned and MJ stuff, but I know they're a package deal now, so you can't really do that. But yeah, I give it a nine out of ten.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:10

Damn, almost a ten out of ten. Okay. Uh this movie was great for me. I enjoyed it. I think it was a really good take on Spider-Man. I think we really needed something like this. Uh after the whole John Watts endeavor, this was much needed. Uh though I can say No Way Home was the better one out of all of 'em. We gotta all admit the final swing was atrocious. Shit was bad. Um unfortunately we did not get that with this one either. Brings it down a couple points. We did not get final swing time. Every Spider-Man movie gets final swing time. Right. What the hell is that about?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:54

It's not about Spider-Man anymore, it's about Peter.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:00

That's bullshit. I needed a Spider-Man final swing. Anyways, um, I I did I did like this movie for the most part. Like I said, Tom Holland's acting was great. Zendaya being able to actually be feminine in this movie and actually like look hot was nice. Because in the other ones, they didn't even let her put makeup on. I was like, John Watts, what are you doing? You're not letting her do nothing. I think by the third one, she kind of was allowed to put a little bit more on, but for like the first two, she was right, she looked beat up. She looked like the girl from Euphoria, like her character on that side of the city. Right, right, right. Um, so I really enjoyed that part. Ned actually having a role a little bit roles uh in that one too. But like I said, the plot is the biggest reason why I gotta give the score that the score I'm gonna basically give it. I do think that you know the whole Ned and Zendaya inclusion is one of those things. I really wish that these movies would just let these people go so you can explore other people, right? Gwen Stacy's still out there, she was supposed to be out there. Uh Harry Osborne. Um, we've you kind of said that they're kind of skirting away from that. But I mean to have Harry Osborne in there would kind of move us closer, right? To the direction we're we're trying to go. Um, and then you can eventually bring them back for the next movie. Or if you know, if you want to just make Spider-Man go at it alone for one movie, that would be cool to kind of let him go through this, and then you could have added more backstory to the whole Gene Gray stuff, to the whole Hulk thing, and the Punisher if they wanted to, and then we'd have had a more tighter story if we would have just cut that whole section out and saved it for um brand new day two. I don't know. Um, so I do think that having them in there is probably one of the reasons because we didn't even get a resolution resolution by the end of this movie. We get that very ambiguous handshake where we're supposed to believe that either he figured it out or it was just muscle memory and they just he just did it, right? Um, so I don't I don't know that a lot of unanswered questions when it comes down to that whole relationship thing. The Hulk being included, like I said, hit having to power him up along with Spider-Man. I mean, I guess it's cool. I understand the whole li oh, they should have done lizard or whatever, but I mean I do think that this helps out with the Marvel in as a whole, so I really like that part of it. Punisher was cool, the his teleporting powers, nice, good debut in this movie, it's really cool. Uh Gene, I hope they do something better. As of right now, I'm not the biggest fan of her. I hope that we get something better with her. I don't know if I'm the biggest fan of Sadie Sink right now. Uh like in general. I don't know if she's like an actress that I'm just like, yeah, like I don't think I've seen enough of her to be like, oh yeah, she's like doing really good, or she's killing it. So I'm really hoping to see more of her. Obviously, I think we said uh she might be seen in Doomsday or Secret War, so can't wait too long. And then on top of that, they're kind of bridging all the X-Men off of her, so that's really great too. Fight scenes were great, camera work was amazing, and I mean I know some people were like, oh, the color is different, but I really think that that makes his suit pop. Like the whole background being mostly gray and everything. I really like the contrast to his suit and how it just made the blue and the red look when he was swinging and the sky shots and everything, so it was great. Uh all in all, 7.5 out of 10. Really enjoyed it. Great Spider-Man film, one of the better Spider-Man films, in my opinion. Um, we have a lot more work to do, though. A lot more work to do. Uh, we need to start focusing a little bit more on Spider-Man himself and not the MCU as a whole. I do like them being a supporting thing, not the main reason. Um, especially because, you know, Spider-Man, he, you know, he got emotion, like Josh said. So he gets the he gets the time to breathe, just like Batman. He's allowed to have his own solo movie. Spider-Man's allowed to have his own solo movie and breathe a little bit. Supporting characters are cool, bring them in for that, but other than that, I enjoyed it. It was a good movie. Very good Josh. With that being said, though, uh, any topics they want us to talk about, movies they want us to review, uh, TV shows. I know we're gonna have to talk about the Marvel it as a whole once Doomsday comes out, so we'll be able to talk about that uh when we get around to that. Josh, let them know where they can do all that. Talk to us and you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:37

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SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

And with that being said, we'll talk to you guys on the next one.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:00

Talk to you guys later.