Here's How Gaming on AVAX is Bringing ACTUALLY FUN GAMES to Web3

GoGoPool, Landslide + Savvy DeFi brought Coop of Gaming on AVAX to talk about how Avalanche is changing the landscape of web3 gaming.

Social Links:
GoGoPool Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoGoPool_
Savvy DeFi Twitter: https://twitter.com/SavvyDeFi
Landslide Twitter: https://twitter.com/CosmosAVAX

Transcript

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I would like to welcome everyone to the AVAs ecosystem space. I am one of your hosts, Brey. I work for Gogo Pool. We're a decentralized liquid steak protocol and guess what, Joe? We just finished up our I D O. Yes, we did. Yes, we did. And the protocol launches this comment Friday. If you would like to expand the subnet economy, make sure you locked in with Google Pool. Make sure you hit that follow button. I'm also joined by my lovely two co-hosts. I got Nathan at the helm of Lynn Slide. What's up my friend doing pushups. Here we go. We deployed our open source landslide core last week. It's been crazy people and either Nathan is not talking or Nathan has rugged on my end. If you could hear Nathan please. Put a heart in a chat really quick so we can get this figured out. If you could hear Nathan just now hard in the chat. Okay. Coop could hear him. Alright, so Nathan Ised on my end. Let's try s d five. I'm on the other cohost gm. This is, uh, I can hear Roman. Let's go this Roman. I work for Savvy, but if you see me in I r l I've been mistaken for working for Gogo Pool. Cause I wear your merch sometimes. I've been marketing for you boys. Uh, I think, I think I, I need to be compensated. First off, first off, no compensation needed. You know that, you know that hoodie is so cozy. It's no conversation. We don't pay for friends here. We just have friends. But no love Roman. Love the savvy D five team. Very, very happy to have you here hosting this space with me today. Roman, uh, on the landslide things. Nathan, whenever you finish up talking, just unmute. Cause I'm gonna listen in on the desktop and there's gonna be a lag. You know, you know the whole situation. We've done this way too many times because they don't ever fix this problem. So let's keep on going. My friends, we are joined today also by Mike Koff, b D for Gogo Pool. Say, what's up my friend? Hey, hey. Happy to be here. Good to see you guys. Favorite hour of the week coming up right now? Yes sir. And less but not least. Oh, if I was smart, I would've played like the Chicago Bulls intro that. Oh man. Okay, next time. Next time you come up. Next time. But last but not least, we got the one and only Coop Growth for gaming on. Hey vax. How you doing today my friend? Yo, I'm doing really good. I am at consensus. Today's day one. I'm loving what I see. It's been a good day. How you doing today, my friend? Coop, very, very tragic on my end. You are rugged. Oh no. So I'll also be listening to you on the desktop and I will have lag on my end. So whenever you're done talking, my friend, please just, uh, just mute and then that way I'll know that I should say something, say something smart or something like that. Do you want me to, do you want me to reconnect everybody? Um, so Coop man. Uh, just so happy to have you here today. Uh, just gonna go over the agenda really quick. First thing we're gonna do, we're gonna start with an interview with Coop. We're gonna go over his role and his story and Web three and what he is doing at gaming on Ava. We're gonna talk about why traditional gamers are so anti web three gaming, cuz we already know they are. We're gonna talk about why subnets are so important for web three gaming. We're gonna, we're also for sure gonna talk about G D C and, and, and what happened there and like Coop's experience. Um, and then we're gonna, uh, open everything up for close remarks from the rest of the folks on our panel right after that. So let's get this thing started. Everybody. First thing Coop, can you just kind of give us just an overview, man of just, you know, how you got into crypto and then your role with gaming on avac. Yeah. Uh, all right, so how did I get into crypto? Like many people, I was a speculator at first, and I, I saw that like Bitcoin could be new money and that Ethereum was sort of setting up this decentralized computing network. And so I speculated on that a little bit. And over time, I think what really got me in was this NFTs. Um, I saw Defi starting to form, but I, I didn't really play with it until NFTs came along. And, uh, with NFTs, I was just looking at this as art ownership at first, and I was like, Hey, that's pretty cool. But, uh, with Ethereum, I still couldn't really transact. Like, I didn't feel like I could, um, just mess around as much. And so what really got me in was Avalanche. Um, and that's how I ended up working at Ava Labs really was. After learning about NFTs, I then was like, well this is kind of expensive. Is this happening somewhere else that I can mess around with? And actually, I think there was a TikTok somewhere in between there that like, kind of convinced me to look at Avalanche and explored, found NFTs and um, and then just started exploring Avalanche. And Avalanche was really young at the time. It was like summer of 21, I think, maybe 20. And, um, I found Pangolin Exchange, which, uh, you know, was one of the earlier exchanges on Avalanche and ended up working with them on digital marketing and just like networked my way in because I've been a digital marketer for 10 years. And, uh, basically introduced myself and offered my services. So started working there. Worked in web three gaming a little bit, and then transitioned into Ava Labs after, uh, that Web three gaming startup pivoted a little bit. So that is my, my crypto journey, and it's been a fun one. Coop, what has it been like, uh, working at Ava Labs since you transitioned? You know, from, from working in Penguin and gaming, uh, to working for like a big L one, it has been very cool. Uh, the, I was impressed when I started by the level of process and, um, the, I guess, support that is here. You know, like even though I worked in the space, I, I just didn't feel like Ava Labs was like a big company. I guess it's not a big company, but I, I was working at startups with 10 to 15 people before this, and so Ava Labs is something like 200 people. And when I started, I just immediately felt that impact of like, Hey, there's people all around that are like, Already established in their roles that can help you figure things out and help you understand how the company works. And that felt really good right off the bat. And I think since then it's been really fun because even, even though we have that like jumping into being one of the core marketers for gaming, um, you know, I, I realized like there's still so much opportunity. Like we need people that are in marketing positions, specifically for gaming, specifically for NFTs. And I'm early enough to help in that process and, and help like guide us cuz um, I think one of my strengths is that I have been a part of the community over the past two years. And so like, I kind of understand what people care about more than a marketer who just works at, you know, a tech company. So, uh, it's been a lot of fun. Overall. Can, can I ask you what your day-to-day role looks like? Uh, Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's, it changes a lot. Like right now I'm at a conference and so it's kind of like messed up and, um, it gets messy a lot because I, I, especially because of conferences like G D C was a full week of trying to do both a conference and be really present and network and also try to keep things moving in the marketing, like people who are back in the office kind of side of things. So my day-to-day normally is a mix of, uh, log on to Twitter. I feel like, you know, web three gaming really happens on Twitter. Like, I, I'm not gonna lie, I spend a lot of time here and I think it's really important that people know Avalanche is here. And so I spend probably like 25 to 50% of my day, like looking at what the important web three gamers are saying on Twitter and, and responding and making sure that we're up to date on that and sharing that back with the rest of the team. It's like, I, I just want. Avalanche to feel like we're a part of this building, uh, process and not just sort of on the sidelines. So I spend a lot of time on Twitter, I'm not gonna lie. And then the rest is like, okay, what do we have coming up with our games that we wanna highlight? How can we help our games get their messages across? And so it's partner marketing and uh, keeping up with them. So like, I, I wanna make sure that Shrapnel is front and center for us. Like they're a huge game. If they succeed, we succeed. So how can I help them do that and, and see what they're doing? And uh, and then the rest is like notion, you know, like we have a lot of team members behind the scenes that really like, don't, yeah, they don't get seen like I do. Um, but they are there working really hard to make sure we have like awesome designs, awesome videos. And so I'm in notion a lot coordinating with them, helping them understand all these things that are going on and how that, how design can really have an impact on our marketing. That's, that's awesome. So, if I understand correctly, your day-to-day role is to be an expert shit poster on Twitter? Pretty, I mean, like, yeah, 50%. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I, I think we should embrace that, like, that is a part of this ecosystem and industry and Yeah, that's what I do. No, you're really, really good at it. So, uh, I, you know, I, I follow your account quite, quite closely. Uh, big fan, big fan. Um, now I, I also know that you, you kind of did a project in the space too, and I'd love to ask you some questions about that later, uh, if you're cool with that. Uh, but yeah, I guess like, let's just jump in. Like, tell me about gaming on Ava, man. Like, let's start, I guess with, why do people get so angry about Web three gaming in the first place? Like, what's your take on it? Uh, well, like Web two gamers, I think they, they still just have a bad taste about crypto. It's like an overall crypto thing. And, uh, they, they feel like, you know, they're not bought in on Ethereum or Bitcoin even, and they feel like it's mostly a scam. So I, I think that's the, the vibe from most of Web two. And NFTs also have a scammy sort of, um, branding in terms of like, people that aren't interested in it, they just see bored apes and they don't get why it's worth, you know,$50,000. And so I think there's a lot of that and they just don't see the value in, uh, in it at all. And I think that's going to change naturally. I'm not, I'm not that worried about it because I, I think, uh, the games that are building now are, have shifted their mindset from like a money focus to a game focus. And so I think if we have really fun games and they happen to utilize this technology behind the scenes to make it better, then we'll, we'll win. And, and I see a lot of our partners with that mindset, so I, I'm excited about that. And I mean, just to like give people context from your point of view, why do you think blockchain and gaming go well together? Well, I like to think about like non-digital gaming. Like I, I'm a millennial and so when I was growing up, we would buy a, a game, a cartridge, a disk, whatever. And then we had GameStop and we would go and like sell our stuff later if we were done playing with it. Something along those lines. And that really got stripped in, uh, in the move to digital. So like at, at the most basic level, I feel like we can earn that back. We can have something that, you know, if we buy, if we buy it, we can maybe resell it on a secondary market. And, and that's basically, That's the key selling point for me. And then you can apply that at different levels. Like maybe you're buying and selling a skin that you liked and, and now you're, you wanna sell it. But, um, you know, we can take it to all sorts of levels, like where there's actual, in-game tokens and, and that sort of thing. So yeah, I think it's just some own ownership getting back into our hands that we lost in the transition to digital. And um, if we keep it simple, I think people will really resonate with that. Do you have any data you can share with us on, on how valuable the ownership actually is of skins? Oh man, I don't, I don't have it offhand, but you know, you if, if you're tuned into gaming, uh, content, you'll see a tweet like every, every other day about a counterstrike skin selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars. So this kind of thing, a and actually counterstrike is a whole topic that's really interesting because they're basically doing what we often talk about, uh, in terms of ownership. It's just centralized. Um, so I, I think they're a really good example that you can look at and see, you know, people, people do love to sell these skins and trade these skins. It's already happening. We just wanna do it in a decentralized way that is open sourced and uh, and allows for smaller games to plug into an economy rather than having to build their own, I think. Um, that's the other selling point of all this is like, people look at Counterstrike and they say, well, that's already happening. Counterstrike has open marketplace, like I can sell my skins, but that's one game and they're a very well funded game that can manage all of this. And so I think the selling point there is, is more like, hey, an even an indie game can set up their user base to trade assets and they don't have to manage a marketplace. They don't have to sell that kind of thing. They just turn their skins into NFTs. That's, I mean, yeah, I have a, I have a, you know, a family member who's like a pretty heavy counterstrike player and we've had these discussions time and time again and yeah, they're like, they're pretty stuck right now, um, in the fact that like the marketplace already exists. So they see no like added benefit of truly owning it on chain cuz uh, they haven't had the experience of losing it yet. Or having, you know, being rugged by like a centralized entity or like, God forbid if like, The marketplace files get destroyed somehow cuz of a cloud hack or whatever. So like we've, we've had that discussion. I think it's gonna probably take one of these major games, like having a hack or some like data being irrevocably lost before a lot of those gamers really feel like the need to try to dip into the space with web three gaming maybe is kind of the, the re the sense I get. But I guess like, you know, you're right and gaming, you know, you get to own these things and I imagine like having Mario and China jumping from game to game or platform to platform or whatever. But I guess like to that extent, why choose AVA for gaming? There's so many chains out there. There are so many chains and, and I think, um, A lot of them are saying similar things now, like just addressing, like Polygon for example. Um, you know, they have super nets, we have subnets, and it even sounds like basically the same thing. And, and what they're saying is similar to what we say, and I think at this point it comes down to implementation. And that's, it's kind of shifting in our, in our mind because I think that the tech has been acknowledged, um, and it's not really a complete differentiator in these conversations. Now people say, well, other people are saying similar things. The difference is like we, we have live subnets. We are actively launching 30 plus subnets that I, I looked at this morning. And so I think the, the technology is actually just more achievable and usable in its current form. Like nobody else has launched as many of these as we have, and nobody is gonna help you through that process, like, People around Avalanche can, like Gogo Pool for example, like I, I think they're gonna be really important as these, uh, get more and more popular to have an ecosystem where you can show up and actually launch this thing without a huge headache. That's gonna be the differentiator in the, the near future. And, and for those that may not know, uh, what is a subnet or SuperNet, can you briefly just kind of like touch on that real quick, so if in case anyone listens to it later where it's kind of new to avalanche and doesn't know exactly what that means? Yeah, sure. Put on your spaghetti strainer first. Here we go. Okay. Uh, a subnet is basically your own blockchain that is connected to the broader ecosystem. And the, the real benefit is you can customize that a lot. You can use your own token as gas, you can make certain transactions gas less. And, and so the user experience that you would have or be able to offer on a subnet is a lot more like web two and a lot more palatable, I think, to users, uh, than what you can get, uh, on most chains. So I think that's the key selling point for me. And, and especially as a game, you know, if you, if you plan to reach adoption and, and have thousands of players, then all of these things matter a a lot more. The user experience is really important. That's a, that's a good point, coop. So you said that subnets are essentially kind of like your very own blockchain. So specific to a game. Uh, shrapnel I believe is like the, They're also on a subnet, right? They're building their own subnet. That's right. Yep. So Shrapnel is a good example. So Shrapnels building their own subnet, effectively, it's like its own blockchain made just for the game, but then aren't we all just creating a different silo? Like when, what's the difference between having it on this blockchain? Other than that I can own it in full versus having it in like a marketplace like, uh, Counterstrike for example. Other than that difference, is there anything else that subnets bring to the equation? Well, I think at, at first, you know, it might be a little siloed and, and still somewhat centralized, but that's kind of the point, is that you can, our team says walk, crawl, run a lot, and basically launching your own subnet is probably like somewhere in between crawl and and run. Um, or sorry, walk and run. And it's basically like, yes, at the start it's probably pretty centralized. You have a handful of validators running that network. But you can hand it off over time as you see fit and, and start attracting new validators that you know are outside of your organization. So I think, um, that's an important note. And then it's also like, I, I think the difference for subnets versus other, um, similar offerings is the, the messaging across of across them. So even though it is your own blockchain, it's it's not a completely siloed blockchain. You're gonna be able to use assets that exist on the other chains that are connected. Um, and, and that's a really important part. Yeah. I got a, yeah. So first off, yeah, I had to grab another phone. So I'm two phones shoddy right now. Um, but I, I want to know, coop, your thoughts on this. This is like purely speculation right here, like for the future. Do you think that it's possible that subnet could become the preferred platform for game development over, let's say Xbox or PlayStation? Oh, that's interesting. You know, it's not even something I'm, I'm really thinking about. Cause I, I'm really focused on like what's in front of us, which feels like PC and mobile, um, as the obvious opportunities. I don't want that to happen. Like somebody was having that conversation in my comments the other day, like, oh, Ava is the new PlayStation, and I'm like, nah, I don't think that's right. I think like, I think we want Sony to have a subnet, for example, and that, you know, even though it's happening on PlayStation, that's where the games are played, that the backend of that can utilize a subnet infrastructure for any, you know, collectibles, that sort of thing. And that seems to be explored on their end. Um, Sony talks about, you know, digital collectibles in a similar way to what we think about. It's just that they haven't specifically said, Hey, we're using a blockchain or this blockchain, but their language looks like they're exploring it a little bit. If, if they're actually exploring it, that would, that sounds really exciting. Uh, Nathan, I saw you too. On, on, on pause. What's up? Hey, coop. Uh, I'm, uh, I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here. Why, why should, uh, people on main net avalanche care about what's going on? Subnets, why, where, where does it accrue value? Yeah. Uh, good question. I, I, it's not, again, it's, it's not something that I think about a ton because, um, you know, at Ava Labs, like it's a technology company that, you know, they're not gonna monetize via the price of AVAs, right? It's like, it's not, it's not how they're planning to make money. So, um, I think the main way though is, is a, they have to acquire validators for that network, and that requires AVAs so somewhat soft, right? Like, unless, unless we launch like a million subnets, there's gonna be plenty of AVAs to go around. Uh, uh, Assuming, you know, the price isn't insane. Um, so it's, there will be more AVAs locked up. The more subnets that we have, if we launch a ton of subnets, you know, that'll start to add up. But then I think more importantly is that if they're coming to Shrapnels subnet to use that chain, then it's a lot easier for that user to also explore what the other things that are, uh, living on the Avalanche C chain. So I think that's the impact is more users that are already sort of onboarded into this ecosystem and can explore the other products that exist in it. I really want to talk about this notion of AAA gaming because you know, right now, You know, web two or like kind of more traditional gamers have this notion that web through gaming is, you know, it's boring. It's, you know, it's, it's not fun, you know, only thing they've heard of are, um, I forgot what it's called, but you are, you guys know the names anyway. It's, it just, it, they, they're not ex as excited about it as we are and I think it's not because, you know, the technology isn't act, you know, amazing. It's just because a lack of information is out there. Can you kind of talk a little bit about how One Subnets kind of enabled AAA gaming and like what that really means for Web three as a whole? Bringing AAA to the forefront? Yeah. And AAA gets a lot of attention. Um, cause they're generally more polished games, more, um, More well planned out just in general, you know, of course, indie games can take off at any time and, and sometimes you, you don't know what's going to be a hit game, but because it's a little more polished, more money goes into it, more marketing goes into it, um, it seems like those games are gonna be the ones that could possibly reach the broad non web three gamers. Um, so we put a lot of emphasis on that. And like Shrapnel for example, um, we focus on that kind of a lot because it's clear that they, in order for them to succeed, they need to go beyond web three. And, and so that's what we want is, is a partner that's going to reach normal gamers. So I think that's, that's the key thing is that like with aaa, that we know there's a lot of investment going into this. We know that they're going to look beyond Web three, and that's what we want is, is gamers that, um, are games that can expand the total industry. You're gonna have to build Halflife three on AVAs, and then you'll have all the adoption you could ever want there. Yeah. And, and that's not, I think that's like, not really going to happen. Um, like most, most of the big IP out there, like, they don't want to take the risk until, until something proves them wrong. And that's, if you study the gaming industry, which I've been doing a lot of lately, it's, um, everything comes from a smaller unknown team that makes a name for themselves by innovating, and then the rest follow. Like, it's very rare that the, the big guys make the first move in, in gaming at least. So let, let's, let's dive into the, the AI gaming, uh, rabbit hole. Man. Give me, gimme the red pill. I like, I've been seeing some crazy first person shooters that literally look like someone filmed it on a GoPro. Oh, I saw that. Yeah. You saw that video right? Bre, I'll send it to you so we can post it to the, uh, the, the, the board up here. Yeah. Give, gimme some, gimme some hot goss on the AI gaming because as it relates to content, like the new Metahuman, uh, unreal engine debut was sick, and you could, you could, you could basically bootstrap a massive gaming company with five devs now. Yeah. I, man, we have not seen the impact yet, right? Like, it's still very early. I can't believe how fast it's moving. Like, like you said, people are starting to put together games in like half the time or less and with fewer devs. Um, so I don't know. I mean, right now it feels like speculation because like we've seen some of these demos, but just nothing has been taken to market. But it's pretty clear that, um, especially on the art side, you're able to create models and. Um, worlds in so much less time. I think that's the key is, is about like the difference in time. Um, some of that like photorealistic stuff I don't even understand. Honestly, I don't, I don't know how they're, they're making it look as real as it is. I think it's a combination of existing technology and ai. Um, but I think gaming in general is, is a really, really hot spot for innovation right now. Like AI is part of it. But then there's the, the Metaverses of the world like Fortnite and Roblox, which, you know, they've been building for a long time, but now they're, they're kind of opening up to more creators and Fortnite especially is just wild to me. They opened up their creator platform like a month ago or something, and it's just exploding. Can you kind of talk a little bit about some games that you are really excited about? Yeah, I mean, shrapnel number one, and I haven't gotten to play it this week yet, and they have a demo. I've retweeted something from, uh, a creator that went and played the demo, and it looks like a lot of fun. So, shrapnels, top of the list, I've really, I've liked what I see from Pulsar, um, as a real-time strategy. Mmo, it's very ambitious to launch something like that is, it's like not only is it web three, but I think the mmo, the massively multiplayer, like long living world combined with a real-time strategy game isn't really something that exists. So that's a big task. But then, um, I also really enjoy Fable Born, fable born. I, I hear from, you know, the, the gamers that they really enjoy it, and that's, that's what I really care about, you know, Games people are enjoying. And I hear that a lot about Fable Born and they're sort of like a cross between Clash of Clans and I don't know what the other one is. It's, but it, it's Clash of Clans esque and, uh, yeah, hearing really good things about that Paradise Tycoon also hear very good things about, and that's like totally different. I think, you know, shrapnel is maybe like a hardcore game in a way. And there's like the, the ownership levels in Shrapnel mean that it's taking a risk every time you enter a game because you could actually lose your en items since they're NFTs. But then there's the Paradise Tycoon where it's like very chill game. Like you're, you're mostly just hanging out and, um, enjoying the world and there's not a lot of risk to it. But you can buy NFT skins and NFT items and trade those items and build up your little. Tycoon or Paradise tycoon, like literally that's what it is. And so I think it's important that we have a huge variety like that. And uh, it's something that Ed Chang mentions often is the idea of like the Netflix of gaming. And that's really ambitious and I, you know, I don't wanna overhype it, but that is the mindset of like, we should have all sorts of games here available for people. And, um, yeah, so that's some of the variety that I'm interested in right now. Yo, so Coop, I, I really have to like, you know, tip my hat to the, you know, Ava Labs team and every, and the way that you guys are approaching, um, gaming gets completely different from any other, you know, team that I've seen Approach it in the sense that a lot of times when teams start to talk about they're developing a gaming project on web three, uh, the web three kind of portion of it is seen as like a marketing tactic. And it's, and it's also kind of like the main thing that they're talking about. So, you know, when you kind of come onto the space and you're saying, Hey, People think Fable borne is fun. And that is what's important to me. I think it's an important thing to highlight, especially for the audience out there, cuz you can really see how Avalanche is focused on actually making gaming fun and then bringing a variety of different games to their platform, which I think is gonna be, it's gonna make, you know, avalanche a huge success. But, um, I'm, I'm very, very curious what we can expect from the Ava Labs team at G D C. Like, what can we expect from gaming on AVAs there? Well tried Summit. Oh yeah. Uh, I wanna comment on what you said there about like, not focusing on Web three as a marketing tactic. To me it's almost the opposite and I, I think our, you know, our leader, ed Chang also sees it as the opposite, as more of technology and not as much so, uh, marketing. Opportunity. And I, I think for him, it comes from the fact that he, he came from EA and you know, he's been in just gaming for a long time and he saw this technology as an opportunity and not just a marketing thing. So, and for me it's like Web three is really small. I, I, and for games, games especially, you know, they're not like a huge financial thing, um, typically. And so in order for it to be a success, we have to have a lot more people. And, and in order to have a lot more people, I think they need to be fun games first. And, and that's gotta be the focus. Whereas like, defi, you could argue that, you know, defi might succeed with a small group of whales. It's not really how I see it for, um, gaming. Okay, so, sorry, go ahead. Well, I was gonna switch to summit. What do you think? I was, I was gonna ask a, a question about, uh, um, I, I, let's say you're really bullish on the thesis that's being presented here. Is there a gaming guild? Is there, what, what, what do we see in terms of development from, uh, the capital side? That's a good question. Now, guilds got really tricky in the last two years. I mean, they all started as sort of like asset managers and it really didn't work out that well for, for most of them. And so they've, a lot of them have shifted to like being a place, a home for creators. And, and I think that's great, but it's not what they initially started as. And I really don't know, you know, like what, what is the place for somebody that is financially focused to go and, and try to profit, um, off of this? Thesis. And to be honest, like, uh, it's just not that clear to me. Like there's some DAOs, um, you know, like Merit Circle is a, is a Dow that I think could have been called a guild at some points. And yeah. Can you go into that launch thing? Can that happened recently? Yeah, yeah it did. Um, so Merit Circle has been a gaming dow for a long time, like two, three years. And, uh, they started similar to guilds in, in the early days they had assets and you know, would have players use those assets to earn yield. Um, but they also invested directly into games and game studios. And so I think the number is something like 70 they've. Put money into 70 different games that all use Web three and in some way, and up until now, they haven't had a home chain and I think they're e people and obviously crypto people, but they didn't have a chain and they didn't have a solid recommendation on which chain these games that they advise and invest in should use. And so this is an opportunity for them to kind of solve all of that, have a chain that they recommend that they know is gonna provide a good user experience for the games that they invest in. And at the same time, they can monetize off of any, any user activity from the games that they bring to that chain because, you know, they can control, uh, everything from the gas fee, which will, I think be in their native token. And then they also can set up a decentralized exchange and N F C marketplace that plugs directly into those games works on their subnet. And, you know, they can take a small portion of fees. So it's basically like they, they're a publishing platform for all the games that they've invested in up until this point. Um, three of those, there's just three games that are initially confirmed to come, but, you know, the idea is that more would happen over time. Which, uh, which three games for Confirmed, do you know? I don't know off the top of my head. I think it's, um, they're, they've been posting about one recently with Dirt Bikes and I think it's like Trial Extreme. That one is on the list for sure. And then I don't remember the other two. And are these typically AAA titles or are they more, uh, like independent studios? A lot of it seems independent. You know, I don't think they use the words AAA in most of their marketing, and I'm okay with that. Um, I think AAA gets thrown out around a little bit too much. Um, so I like it when people are a little more careful about that. Can, I mean, Cooper, I know you're a gamer, so I'm gonna ask you like a gamer question. Can you talk a little bit about like how gaming has progressed, like on the studio side of things? Like, you know, at first, you know, when I first started gaming, you for the most part, I think had to have like some major, you know, studio, like a lot of different development, huge marketing budget, but it's seeming like, you know, things have changed up a bit. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, you're absolutely right. Uh, I just saw a tweet today that was like three years ago. I didn't know how to code and today my game is on the front page of Steam and I thought that was really cool and also just shows you the level of change. Um, so a lot of things continue to progress in gaming. Like it used to be long ago, you had to build your entire engine, like, you know, everything that manages the world had to be created by you. And now that's. Almost not usually the case. Uh, especially for small developers, they would never do that these days. It's, they can just plug into an, um, typically like open sourced or at least somewhat open, um, engine provider. And so now they, they don't have to build all of the physics and everything that goes into how your world feels. And instead they can just plug in their art and, um, and, you know, start to build that way. And it just continues to go that route. Like, uh, AI hasn't really been seen yet. I think, I mean, we're seeing sneak peaks, but like, it's still not the main focus of developers, but, you know, things like that are just gonna make it easier and easier. And now in, you know, Fortnite basically you can go in and drag and drop, create a game in hours. And I, I think it's just gonna continue that way. Like indie devs are gonna be able to do more and more over time. So I, I love that you, you know, were talking about all these like, different independent studios and like the different histories, um, surrounding how things have changed. Um, because like, you know, it, there has been a huge, huge impact, um, where there's, it just takes way less, uh, development cost and, and, and weigh less developers to, you know, kind of start up your game. Like you said, the, the person said it took, you know, three years, three years ago, they didn't know how to code at all. And then now their game's on the front page of Steam, you know? Um, I think that, you know, that kind of stuff is pretty crazy, but it also gives a lot of credence to things like, like Stargaze, um, you know, coming into, coming into Web three, like nerd out with me for a little bit coop. Like, what do, what what do you think the impact that, you know, stargaze is gonna have when you know it's something that gets released? Wait, sorry, can you repeat that? I, I got distracted by something. I mean, a hotel lobby is terrible. No, no, no worries. Um, what kind of impact do you, um, do you think like Stargaze is gonna have, like on web three? Do you mean star dust? Yes. Yes. Star dust, yes. Okay. Is an NFT platform on Cosmo. Oh, right. Yes. I knew, I knew that. I knew that word. I've, yeah. I've used Stargaze. Okay. Um, Stardust. Yeah. It's the same thing. Like, um, early games in this space had to do so much work, you know, they pioneered and, and they were early. So what that meant for them was a lot of extra development costs. Right. Like the, just like the first subnets, you know, it's happening before our eyes. The first subnets were like very difficult to launch, right. It, it was a lot of work and they were exploring it, and, and so over time everyone comes together and makes that process easier and Stardust is like a really important part of that. Um, because they simplify the entire N F T process for games. And so instead of a game, you know, and that's, that's also why early games in this space were so crypto focused, is that's what they had to do. They had to focus on the crypto aspect because that was the hard part about what they were launching. And now the hard part is making a fun game. And the easy part or easier part is launching the NFTs in that game, and it's gonna continue that way. It's easier and easier and, and it just changes everyone's focus to be more gaming focused than crypto because the, the people, they don't need to worry about crypto as much. They can just plug into this, these tools that make it easier and easier. So if you combine a Stardust with a go-go pool, all of a sudden you're launching your subnet and adding NFTs in game for very limited cost versus what it was a year ago, which was like, that's most of your time and effort is launching NFTs and. And your subnet. So, Leo, this is a question for Brey. Uh, is staking G G P A bet on future of gaming subnets? Uh, I would say it's more so a bet on the future of all subnets, like the entirety. Like if you're, if you're like, man, I love subnets and I really think that this technology is gonna be at the forefront of web three g g p token, my friends G g P token. And, and can, can, well, uh, can you give us a little alpha What games are gonna use G G P? Come on man. I can't be talking about all that stuff. Oh, all right. See you Trying to get me fired. I can't hack. Hey, Roman, get your boy, man. Oh, uh, Ava Summit. Let's talk about that. Yeah, let's do it. What, what kind of news, uh, about Ava gaming can we expect from Summit? Here's your, all right. I'm not big on the alpha, I'm gonna be honest. Uh, you know, I, I, I like the slow and steady pace of like, Hey, this is technology we're using. It's gonna continue to pro progress. We're gonna continue to find people to use it. Um, I think what you'll see at Summit is, is less announcements, more demos, and showing off like what we have coming. I don't know if anyone here was at Summit last year, but it was purely panels where people talked about their game and the idea for their game. And at the time that was really exciting because that's where we were. But if, if we came back to Summit and still just had panels talking about a game, I think we'd be in a bad situation because this point we should have real games, you know, coming together. And so we have a gaming cafe, and that's my favorite part of summit. Um, at least for gaming. And at that cafe, we're gonna have games constantly playable, multiple games that you can come check out that are all building on Avalanche. So I think like if there's Alpha to be had, it's probably hang around that cafe and see which games are the best and maybe, you know, take a bet on those games. Which, uh, which games can we expect? Um, unfortunately not Shrapnel. Um, I wish we could get them, but they, their demo is like really challenging and, uh, they want to be able to control the process there. So. We have, we have a pretty long list. I think there's 15 different games. So Fable, born, pulsar, um, there's a few that are kind of alpha right now that I don't want to say, um, but basically every, every game that is on the gaming on avas.com site is probably gonna be there. I think that's fair to say. So if you haven't seen that site, it's on the gaming Twitter. Yo, I am mad, excited to play, oh, sorry. I'm, I'm so into RTSs, just total Wars, completely taking over my life, and I used to be a huge, uh, StarCraft nerd back in the day. So I'm really, really, really excited to play Polestar. It's fun. I've played it, and, uh, it is, yeah, it's good. I mean, it feels a lot like, um, StarCraft in a, in a really good way. But there were some things that were like innovative beyond. Just, just the web three aspects were like, I was having to kite some big bosses around a map and I was like, oh, I've never done this in, in rts, really where you have to like park your units in certain areas to try to like bombard this boss as you drag it around the map. And I, it was really fun. I, there's just a lot of fun games. Um, meta ops. I'm looking at the site right now, so maybe I can help fill in the gap. So we've got Fable born, defi Kingdoms, meta Ops, portal Fantasy, paradise Tycoon, pulsar Battle for Geo Stone. I don't think Roone Seeker will be there, I think. Okay. That's it from the website. There's definitely some more and some that haven't been announced, but that's a small list. Man, this is about to be absolutely epic. I on on my end. I absolutely can't wait. We're, we're coming up close to the hour mark here. I'm gonna ask you, uh, a very, very random question here, coop, man. Like, gimme, gimme your favorite old school game that you played back in the day. Uh, it depends on how old school you want, but let's see. Uh, I always say World Warcraft because I just spent so much time in that, and I, it's not like old school because it's still around, but it was 2004, 2005, and I was spending like 12 hours a day playing World Warcraft. Um, and then every other Activision Game or Blizzard game back then, like, uh, StarCraft Warcraft, Diablo. Like, I, when I think about it sometimes I'm like, wow, I'm pretty much a blizzard. Fanboy, like a Call of Duty too. I mean, it's, you know, different. But yeah. Blizzard fanboy pretty hard. Have you been checking out videos on Diablo four? Yes. Yeah. I, I pre-ordered like I max pre-ordered Diablo four. I'm gonna play a lot of that. It's, Hey, brief. We got a question. Uh, not sure He wanna handle the, uh, request. What's up? Yeah. There's a dude from Amber who looks like to be a, a gaming dev. Bring, bring them on up. Sorry. I'm, I'm, I got two phones going. I'm, I'm talking into one phone. The other phone is the global pool host, so I can't bring him up. All right. I'll bring him up to He's got a question. Yeah. What's up guys? He says he is the NP, c e o of this game called Smoking or Smokes. Can you hear me? Yeah. What's up? What's up? Yeah, we're a game launcher. Um, I actually raised my hand like maybe 20 minutes ago when you brought up AI in gaming. Um, I had a little bit to share in that regard. Uh, I don't wanna backtrack you too much, but bring it. Let's, let's do it. Cool. Yeah. The, um, the game you mentioned that's super realistic. I really just wanted to kind of point, shine a light on just unreal engine in, in its entirety. I mean, these guys have really created something super special with their, their node-based editing. Um, NA and Lumen are two other technological advances that have really brought that ultra realism to, to games that, that you saw everybody's like convinced that that, uh, trailer was real. Right. And amazingly enough that AI is not needed, that AI was not used to do that. You know, um, same thing with Metahumans as well. Like, they've developed certain technologies that are making it so much easier on game devs. And now, as Coop alluded to, they have, you know, enabled that for Fortnite players, So these guys are able to go in there and, and like you mentioned, just, uh, you know, in a few few days, create a little game experience without needing to know c plus plus or any other code languages and, um, it's really amazing. Now with that being said, AI has, is going to enable some really, really cool stuff in game development. Um, one of the guys from A 16 Z recently posted a, a thread with some really cool AI and gaming ideas. Um, but I know in the forefront some of the stuff that gets me super stoked is like AI powered and PCs creating super custom immersive quest experiences. Um, yeah, I mean that to me is like a, a low hanging fruit. That's really exciting. That's all. Can you talk to us about your gaming experience as it relates to Ava? Yeah. My, my gaming experience on Avax is, uh, entirely through Coop. I actually personally haven't played many games on AVAs yet. I would like to play more, but, uh, just kind of big fan of coop's content and always, you know, trying to stay upstate with what's in the, what's going on in the ecosystem. I am like twice removed, friend from Marco at Merit Circle, and so I'm always kind of on the sidelines, big fan, rooting him on and love to see that they just launched Beam. And, um, we are also, I'm, I'm, I am exploring the possibility of a subnet for our platform as well. Um, so yeah, we'll see how that develops Cup. I actually messaged you about it. Um, I'd love to chat with you a bit more, learn, learn what that looks like, and, um, if it makes sense for us. Awesome. I'll follow up. Um, and I think the, the thing about a lot of these subnets too is that they're looking for games, right? Like Beam might be a great solution for your game, for example. Like, I'm not, I'm not sure it is, but, um, it'll be interesting to see how how games can benefit from using existing subnets in, in certain ways. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. I think I, I also was kind of considering that. I was like, oh, maybe it makes sense for us to build on Beam. Um, maybe we need our own, I'm not sure. So looking, looking forward to going anymore. Yeah, I think, uh, a lot of these subnets right now see themselves as a publishing platform and we have, we have a long way to go to see how that really plays out, right? Cause like being a publisher and gaming is, is a lot like, it's basically your job to take that game to market and. Uh, especially in web three. It seems like a, it's a tough task right now, but, no, I thought that was your, I thought that was your job, dude. Dude. No, uh, we're, it wouldn't, yeah, we're not a marketing agency for games. Uh, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see, like, do, does Beam and Merit Circle become, you know, a publisher, basically? Yeah. Uh, it could be cool. A hundred percent. I mean, I think that's the power of the blockchain as well for gaming, right? Is like traditionally, I mean, if we're, you know, looking at games launching on Steam or something, right? It's like maybe they worked with a publisher who's taking 30% cut and then they're launching on Steam who's taking another 30% cut, you know? Um, and I think that there's so many fun ways of it to, to kind of play the relationship partnerships and, and economics of, of publishing houses slash game development studios to. Bring more value back to the actual developers and gamers alike and kind of cut out some of the, the ties, you know? Yes. Yeah. It sounds like a, sounds like a, a youth for crypto. Like almost, it's almost right there. Just tell me where to stay. It's right there. Uh, no, you're totally right though. Like with a game. Um, yeah, like Merit Circle can, can focus on a different type of monetization where it's like, you know, they're only getting their, their cut via usage that happens on their subnet. And, um, yeah. Monetization is, is potentially very different in this world. And, but you know, all of it comes back to we need real fun games that gamers want to play, you know, that's, I'm gonna hammer that. Yeah. That's kind of the motto for us as well is like, and I think a lot of, a lot of people in web three share this sentiment. It's like, yo, we get paid when our games get paid. You know what I mean? And that's, that's kind of the beauty of, of the model. Yeah. If you guys have a good publishing platform as decentralized, let's get it on Gogo pool. I mean, he's not lying, but he said it in a hilarious way. Andy, I see you got brought up my friend. Did you have anything, uh, question or anything? Oh yeah, dude, Mike, my coop. I thought we had, uh, gotten you on contract to do every game walkthrough for all of avalanche games and subnets. So I thought that that was the, I thought that was the deal. No. Okay. Damn it. Dude, I thought that was the deal too. No, I actually did think that like at the start, Garrison was like, all right, your job is to just make content about all the games, but then turns out there's a whole lot of marketing that has to be done elsewhere. And so I don't get to play as many games as I wish. I know you already sounded so corporate in everything. I was like, our little coop has grow, grown up. Like what happened? You know, he was just de know a few months ago and now he's like, um, I actually can't speak on this Alpha. I'm not privy to this information. Um, I dunno how I got here. I was added by a third party and I'm not legally obligated to tell you anything. Like, what the heck is going on here? Where's Coop? They, they've brainwashed. I changed already. He's changed. He's part the hair shorter. Swear in a suit right now. Yep. Wearing a suit. Um, yeah. I wasn't even on the astro list. I don't know what happened, dude. I, no, like, what are we doing? Dude, I wasn't on it either, man. I'm, I'm, I'm offended actually. Yo, I'm, I'm very stoked for Gonz, and I will say that, uh, my wife is stoked for it because the acting in it and the graphics are unbelievable. Oh, yeah, man, that is a whole nother angle we haven't talked about, but like Yeah, uh, they've got Neil Blum camp and they're doing some crazy video stuff. Uh, and I, I love Gonz in part because they really don't see Web three as a marketing term. Like they, in fact, like last year they were at Summit and they had this big banner and we're like, what is this? We've never even heard of this. Like, they're not in the AVAs chats. And at the time I was like, they're not doing a good job marketing to Web three. But now I'm like, wait, they're marketing to the bright people, like just gamers. So yeah. Good. When they syop the chain that they're building on, you know, it's bullish. Guys, I'm gonna have to go at the top of the hour. I'm trying to get, uh, actually one, one kind. One one final really easy slam dunk for you is where are games and NFTs in compliance? Oh, dude, what? This is slam dunk. Uh, actually I just set up a meeting to talk to our policy guys because we, we now have like a pretty big policy team. They're gonna help me write a thread about like, where, where is this all in relation to gaming? Um, but I wanna say that I have to go because I'm trying to get footage of goon playing shrapnel at consensus. And please, I, yeah, I want it. Yo, it was, uh, it was a pleasure having you on Coop. Um, yeah, go get that footage, man. That footage important. Good luck, sir. Guys. Speed. Bye guys. Also we need a message coop. If, if Goon isn't good at it, like we need a not to not release that, you know, that not be bullish. So either way I gotta see it. Oh, you definitely, definitely gotta see it. No, no. And we're not gonna show him getting killed. We'll just like show him playing. You know, you don't wanna show him losing. Exactly. Yo, make, make sure you get very detailed cuz it's gonna be for a meme. Dude, I'm, we're, we're gonna use it. Okay. All right. Alright. Bye guys. Peace coop. Yo everybody, I'm about to start closing this thing on down. Open stuff up for closing remarks. I'm gonna go ahead and start things off with Mike King cough at Google Pool. I already know what your closing remarks are gonna be, so I'm you, you see me setting the stage for you, dog? Yeah, I appreciate it. Sorry I wasn't able to squeak too many questions and I was really enjoying the, uh, conversation overall. Um, I guess my main closing remark is that it's a really good time to be involved. Uh, everybody kind of touched on the fact that like this is getting easier. Running an in-game app specific economy on a validator set, which is an enormously challenging thing, has come really far, even just from last year's summit, like Cooper was saying. So, Um, excited to see it become even easier with the support of kind of infrastructure companies like Gogo Pool or Stardust handling different parts of the kind of chain of starting your own chain. Um, and just interested to see developers and creative people take all those different tools and get those barriers to entry outta the way so that, uh, basically you can go, you know, almost as easy it is to launch an indie game to an app store, uh, to the app store. It would be cool to see Web three hit that stage sooner rather than later, and I think that's what a lot of people are looking forward to. Just rising tide, to lift all boats. Yo, bro, I got some dope clips of Steven talking about like, new validator business models that are gonna be created, you know, just like straight from this. And man, there are some, there are some views, there's, there's a lot of ways that the, uh, the G G P token can go and, um, we're, we're very, very, very excited to get to launch in so that the community can get it in its hands. And, you know, we can, we can start really kind of tail, you know, figuring out exactly where we want this, you know, the future to go. But man, the, the, you know, just the ideas that Steven were talking about where, you know, different one, you'd be able to spin up a validator completely just through us. Just, you know, like no need for code or anything like that, you know, almost, you know, as simply as, you know, you being able to stay KX and then, you know, two, being able to then start to validate subnets and, and when you start to really, you know, thinking about things. You can validate, you know, however many subnet you want. So you know, we're build, if we're building, you know, what we're building and I can't talk about it, then you know, things are things, things are gonna, things are gonna per club quite a bit in the subnet, in the subnet lane. So thank you for everybody who is, uh, is here today. Cuz you mean y'all are witnessing history in the making My friends for sure. Um, said a lot of talking anyway. Closing remarks from landslide. Nathan, what's up my friend? Um, the compliance side of games, I was, I was hoping Coke Cooper would answer this. The compliance side of games is actually quite safe. NFTs are the one part of the regulation environment that are not regulated and that will most likely not be regulated people. The, the, the, the, the, i I really apologize. I gotta head on out to a meeting. So we, we gotta closing remarks my friend. You got something to promo real quick? We can't go into another topic. Nope, that's. That was it. All right. Romans defi. You got any closing remarks? My friend? Good host. Good guests. Good chat. Goodbye. Yes. There you go. Yes. Love it. Sorry guys, I have to go to a meeting, so I gotta, I gotta run things a little bit quicker than usual, but really appreciate everyone for coming out today. Uh, thank you everybody. This has been the Avax Ecosystem space. I'm gonna say, my usual saying we do this weekly every Wednesday at 3:00 PM e s t. You know the best place to be that's right here with Savvy Defi Landslide and G G P. Let's go. You don't have to go home, but you already know. You gotta get up on outta here, dog. Peace.